I tend to agree with you that repeatable/incremental card draw is better than burst card draw, and cards that let you draw more based on certain situations are great. I do also like a point that was made on the EDHREC podcast about cards like harmonize, which is that the reliability of them is important to consider. Sure, Rishkar's Expertise can draw more cards but if you're in top deck mode after a board wipe, cards like Harmonize will still draw you 3 cards then and there, while Expertise or Phyrexian Arena might not draw you any. So I think a mix, if possible, is good.
I agree with trying to make your card draw fit your theme. Creatures in green, sacrifice in black, weenies in white, etc. But I do think those one time cards have a place as well, because I think it is also important to think of scenarios where you are behind and don't have creatures on the board in green or creatures to sac in black. I try to incorporate at least 2-4 draw cards that give me decent value in any situation as security so I can always try to have an answer.
I’m a fan of enchantments for card drawl. They tend to be more difficult to remove and usually get back cards equal too or more then the mana investment.
I always try to add around 10 card draw cards into my deck, so depending upon how many colors I am playing, I often have to use those "bad" card draw cards.
Interesting. From a flavor standpoint, the fact that red doesn’t have good card draw, but instead does impulse, is spot on. I have a mono red Laelia deck built around that. What I’ve found is, people are genuinely afraid of impulse draw. The amount of cards I get to see, and potentially play each turn, is up there with any aggressive card draw deck I’ve ever played or played against
For the argument for panful truth vs phrexian arena, I sort of disagree, if let's say you play one of those card on them on turn three painful truth can you get 3 three card immediately versus phrexian arena you need like 3 whole turn to get the same amount of card. Yes if you have arena for a while it's worth but also if they let say removed it from the moment you play you got no card which kind of suck. Yeah it is better to have painful in three color, but I don't like how slow arena is.
Painful Truths is a great draw on turn 10, Phyrexian Arena is awful. Phyrexian Arena needs to be on the field a whole 4 turns to match Painful Truths. And it's actually still worse at that point, as with Painful Truths you've had time to utilize and build velocity from the cards.
I think a lot of people underestimate the effect of cantrips. They are among the most underrated cards in MTG. One of the things that divides EDH from 60 card formats is unreliability. They have looked at a fraction of the picture and concluded that deck thinning in EDH is not useful. They are dead wrong. Cantrips, especially those you mention, are a cheap way to do this. A cantrip played = 1/50th of your deck thinned, so 5 is 1/10th - that's a ton. In the case of the ones you mentioned, it also allows you to control those draws with scries and place one top effects. While not game-breaking, this does allow you to shuffle unwanted cards away in conjunction with fetches or top etc. This lets you dig for lands when you're screwed or to shuffle them away when flooded. It also lets you shuffle away a high CMC spell in the early game or cheap ramp in the late game when you need something better. What is important to remember is that cantrips should NEVER replace card draw. If you take out your card draw and put in cantrips then you are doing it wrong. You want both. You want to push through your deck quickly, and get to the cards that allow you to win. If I'm designing around cantrips, I want at least 5 cantrips and at least 10 draw effects. This is improved if you have access to green and add in low cost ramp spells that search/shuffle - white can do this too, but not as well. The key is low cost and shuffle to ramp out lands - not rocks. The other important thing is to remember that you kind of mentioned, is that you need to incorporate deck building synergy to make this style of play work. Effects that capitalize on draws or cast instant/sorceries. Storm. Etc. Cantrip style play does NOT work in every deck. Off the top of my head there is really only support for it in blue, red, and white. This way, every time you pay your 1 or 2 mana to cantrip, you are getting additional value. If this is a token, great. If its mana (many Simic legendaries do this), even better because you can get multiple low cost spells for the price of 1 and amass value quickly. Finally, the drawback to this style - you are choosing speed and efficiency over packing your deck with more interesting cards. Plain and simple. A lot of people (I think you fall into this group) mostly play EDH for the big fun cards you can play. Cantrips are certainly NOT that. The are grindy cogs in a machine that spits out winning. Two totally different viewpoints of play.
@ Demo 1 black card draw spell worth considering is ‘plumb the forbidden’. On ‘Rhystic Study’ it depends. The more casual the games are, the less tuned their decks are and on average the easier it will be for your opponents to “pay the 1”. The less casual the games however the more appealing ‘Rhystic Study’ becomes.
@ Demo One hidden gem of a card draw option I’ve come across for budget black or black heavy decks is transmogrant’s crown which I see as sort of a skullclamp lite.
There is just something fun about Red impulse draw, namely the gambling aspect. I never meant to have 3 mono Red decks but I do, LOL, and they are all fun from the impulse draw choices I make. I like how Red feels like your going fast with the silly impulse card draw. The most important thing I note when it comes to discarding cards in Red is all about understanding what cards you need in that moment to win, something that a lot of beginning players may struggle with :P
I put minds eye in my galazeth prismari, dragons approach deck after I watched a video were you talked about that card and I gotta say it’s been a great edition. The fact that I can tap it for mana because of galazeth and then when my hands empty or low I can just pay 1 mana when other people draw cards is awesome. I have multiple times where I’ll have some mana up to draw when someone else draws, then get a counter spell and then tap it to cast said counter spell.
One of my favorite draw spells in blue when I have high cmc permanents out is Rush of Knowledge, I play it in a Nezahal deck and with no max hand size this cards feels great to use every time, I even added a few more high cmc cards like some budget eldrazi to really capitalize off it
demo, just wanted to say thank you for what you bring to the commander community, i’ve been trying to take your advice and such when building decks and i’ve been enjoying deck building so much more!
Couldn't agree more with your overview. Would just add in blue the etb creatures (Muldrifter, Lord of Change, Seagate Oracle...) and the "combat damage to opponent draw" (Bident of Thassa, Coastal Piracy, Reconnaissance Mission...). They are strategy dependent of course, but pretty powerful draw.
I just built an Alibou Jewish Space Laser mana rock deck and was looking to find some good card draw to keep dumping rocks out! Thinking I might need more protection, but I need to play with it a little first
I agree about having permanents that just sit there accruing card advantage for you. I try to have more of those in my deck than just one-shots. But if I can run something like Stinging Study or Monumental Corruption to draw 6 or more cards I’m definitely running those.
I also like permanents over spells but i do find in higher power decks (not cedh) just having a good hand refill that draws 5+ cards is much better. I still play a few repeatable effects though.
Another category in green is if you're playing a lot of mid-sized creatures - Garruk's Uprising and Tribute to the World tree. I have Garruk's Uprising in my Omnath, Locus of Rage deck. I will be putting in Tribute to the World Tree when I get my hands on a copy.
I’ve stopped playing rhystic in casual, I almost never draw cards with my playgroup, everybody just pays until someone removes it. It’s just not fun and I’d rather have card draw that doesn’t rely on my opponents
What are your thoughts on Pyschic Possession? Another card that sticks around like Rhystic or Arena, and has been a workhorse for me in many contexts as you can almost guarantee your opponents will be drawing cards beyond their 1st. Even better with any symmetrical draws in your deck.
I think you missed out on talking about wheels I know it's not the best to feed your opponents, but there is upside in it too; like wheeling an opponent who just played a tutor. Also maybe it helps another player who needs the cards to help get you out of a sticky situation, politics is another method wheels can be great. Wheels, I love them!
The advantage of burst draw can depend on if you're ahead on the board and want to maintain momentum. Instead of waiting later turns to to play 5-7 mana draw spells for huge late game value, an aggressive deck would rather spend 2-3 mana drawing two to theee rather than dumping their hand or waiting till it's too late to add weight to their gameplan.
I have found Greater Good to be great in green. Someone targets your creature for removal... as a reaction sac to GG to get value for losing the creature. In my Ghalta deck... attack with Ghalta, sac to GG draw 12... play Ghalta for ... I see it as "pay give target Ghalta vigilance and draw 12 cards." Haha😂
At 7:35 or so, you say youre expecting a casual game to go long, but my playgroups idea of long is turn 7 half(if not all) the pod should be dead lol. I NEED to be drawing cards on turn 2. I have to get through my deck as fast as possible to keep up and even then im probably going to lose anyways.
There is one advantageous aspect of one shot card draw versus something like Rhystic Study in Commander and that is the attention it draws. I rarely have players asking who has the most cards… 2, 3, 7… I will attack the player with 7 cards… but an early on Rhystic Study on board is going to get me negative attention for certain. Even if my hand is empty. It’s like a first turn Sol Ring or Mana Crypt for getting you attacked.
I know its very specific but because my fav mono color to play is red, one of my personal fav commanders is purphoros bronze blooded. Turning so many overcosted great creatures into 3 mana spells for card draw and removal really helps. Its like i run 6 Wheel of Fortunes in one deck 😂
The point is valid on repeatable card draw - Phyrexian Arena, et all will draw you more cards for the mana than one-shot effects over the course of virtually any commander game. That said, the early turns of the game are super critical (making land drops and ramping out resources specifically). You fall behind early, you are usually dead on the board no matter what your deck can do. Cheap draw spells are vital for this phase of the game - sign in blood, night's whisper, etc. If all your card draw costs 4+ mana but draws you more cards, that's all well and good except you may have lost so much time early in the game that it won't matter anymore. And yeah, it's a bit of a hot take to say you'd run Rhystic Study over Ancestral because it's a non-sensical choice. You'd run both in basically every blue deck because they are both insane (which is an argument for banning Rhystic Study honestly - what blue deck isn't better with this card in it?).
My working theory is I need 12 cards, that I can plausible tell myself a story that they will draw me at least 3 cards for a total investment of 1.5 mana (or equivalent in other resources) per card. Less than 1.5 mana per card is busted and more than 2 is just bad. So harmonize is good enough because it gets you 3 cards for 1.33 mana per card and does so now (there is probably an Net Present Value for incremental card draw that should be applied that I haven't figured out yet).
its an extra life per card for the same mana value. life as a resource is perfectly fine but without a life gain strategy, losing 1-6 life per turn, that can add up fast. the extra stuff does add allure. id probably rank them about the same level personally for general face value. in a life gain or low health matters deck, id rank BMC a bit higher. in general, both are great
I have started moving away from the big draw x spells and been happy with playing more 2-mana draw 2 spells. The reason being two-fold, one that it's so painful to basically take an entire turn off from casting spells just to draw 4-5 cards. With sign in blood or expressive iteration, you get to keep the card flow going and still cast a meaningful spell that turn. Two, is that cheap burst draw can help you draw into lands in the early game to keep hitting your land drops, which can let you keep a 2-lander more confidently. A 5-mana draw spell doesn't do that for you if it's in your opening hand.
Oh I’ve definitely paid for a late game mystic remora trigger before, after a field wipe and all I had was mana. I might be the first in history, put me in the books!
One thing that stops me from playing a lot of the cards mentioned in here is the CMC of those spells. Low CMC repeated draw effects are great for early game to get a lasting advantage. Low to Medium CMC immediate draw also good for late game to get yourself over the edge on that last part you need to win or dig for that answer you need. High CMC sorcery speed immediate draw like Collective Unconscious are out for me. They get you the cards in hand but then the game can easily be over before you get to use them since your mana is spent and the whole turn got dedicated to drawing cards and then needing to wait for the next turn to actually use them. This just sets up for the “If I only had 1 more turn” end of game feelings because you got the cards in hand but never got to use them. High CMC repeated draw like well of lost dreams is a bit hard as well. You drop 4 mana for no immediate effect and then need to tax yourself going forward for eventual returns. You can’t do it early game because of the CMC and then late game you can’t wait for the returns to come in.
I disagree. I believe you need both oneshots of cardraw and permanents that repeat themselves. Preferably all of them should have synergy, but I think a simple sign in blood can get you off a tight spot when you don't have your strategy online
Yeah was thinking the same thing. It’s good to have bombs that can draw you lots of cards IF you have the right board state, but IMO you also need those cheap, unconditional effects like Sign in Blood and Read the Bones
So at the beginning of the video you were saying that one mana for one card is not worth it, and at the end you said one mana for two cards is "totally broken" So where is the middle ground on that exactly? What would be a decent mana/card ratio in your opinion?
Cantrips have their place depending on the deck, brainstorm is fantastic in a deck where topdeck manipulation is important. Ponder is much better than you make out and is probably the best cantrip in the game, Ponder let's you shuffle which can clear out the top of your deck or give you the information of the next 2 draws.
Recycle (green)/Null Profusion (black) is great card draw for low mana base decks. Play a card, draw a card. Yeah, your hand size goes down to 2 but if you can quickly cycle through your deck, it's worth it, imo.
For me personally I'd have to be super desperate for card draw options to use something like Well of Lost Dreams and it's not even because of how good or bad the card is but more because of my play style. If I have to pay mana every time I gain just to be able to draw cards then I won't have any mana left to play anything that was already in my hand to begin with let alone anything I had just drawn. Which to me makes everything in my hand just useless for a turn. Imo cards like sign in blood and faithless looting, while obviously not netting me cards, will dig me down deeper into my deck and ultimately provide me more value in the long run. Granted I don't particularly use those cards either but I would use them over Well if I had to choose. In my mono white deck I do in fact run Tocasia's Welcome, Welcoming Vampire, Bennie Bracks, and some other long term value draw cards and im just waiting for the day I pull off having both Bennie and Smothering Tithe on the field at the same time lol
I think ive recently realized that I like card draw cards that draw you multiple cards in 1 go better than card draw cards that draw you cards over time
Red card draw has to be tempered by Standard/Modern formats. With its direct damage and aggro, the archetype is typically that while red burns hot it burns out… with a lot of card draw, mono red would just relentlessly sweep through opponents in 2 player formats.
While I agree that they are wildly overplayed, I think there are a lot of decks that can benefit from the cheap draw spells in U/B/R. I see it as a way to reduce the number of cards in the deck. And sure, Black and Blue are pretty good at tutoring, there is a noise component to that. You hit a tutor, especially in black, and your opponents know you just got the best card in your deck and you are a priority. On the other side, if you are blasting through Ponders and Sign In Bloods, your opponents are going to be thinking something a lot closer to "Well, he basically just skipped his turn" and leave you alone.
My commanders/decks are almost always built around a search ability on my commander or my creatures. So yes, Demmo would likely destroy me and every player with my playstyle in a commander game, if he brought a deck with white to the table, courtesy of his Archivist of Oghma.
Instants and sorceries that draw still have their place, they're a lot faster than permanents (useful if you need an answer or combo piece asap). Not to mention permanents can just get destroyed before you get any value off of them, then you're out that much mana and you drew nothing.
About Ancestral Recall vs Rhystic Study, I can see the point casual EDH but, for competitive, tapping out on turn 2 or 3 to maybe draw 3 cards by the next turn is already too slow. In cEDH decks are built to win on turn 3-4, Ancestral Recall will be a no-brainer over Rhystic Study.
Hey edh been watching your channel for a few weeks. With some of the insight of your video I am under the impression that I've built a powerful 3 color deck. Is there anyway of personally messaging you about a commissioned review and critique of the deck I've made. I take criticism very well, I would just like a pro to say "Hey that's terrible" or "damn that's pretty ok." One way or the other I'll be getting put on track of what to change and How to make it as strong as possible. It is black,Blue, and white. Heavily leaning towards tokens being cast. I know everyone has their life, If this is something you do infact "do" I'd like to here from you. Thank you
I need to know, Demo. I'm trying to warm up to SPECIFICALLY Harmonize because the card will always be 3 cards. Always. If it resolves, you get 3 cards. Following a board wipe, it's 3 cards. Casting it without a Guardian Project, again. It's 3 cards. What synonyms are there for this? - Card draw - Specific number - Independent of creature count You just get board wiped. Likely Farewell nowdays. It happens. What are you wanting to draw the following turn?
well if a farewell just resolved it's likely later in the game so i want something that's going to draw me more than 3. stinging study (with a 6+ cmc commander) would be nice.
I feel better playing recall then study. I know it sounds weird. But I feel study is not fun and playing a card that let's me go plus 2 is at least a little fun for combos.
Imo, Ancestral Recall is better than Rystic because it is under your control. With Rystic, your opponents can deny you the card draw, and good opponents often will. I'm a cautious sort of player, so an ability entirely under my own control gets good points over one dependant on my opponents.
Rhystic is #1 for sure but if Ancestral Recall was unbanned every deck with blue run it for sure. Instant speed draw 3 for such little investment is silly. There is nothing better for on the spot card draw
Red isn't supposed to get efficient raw card draw, impulse draw is its thing. Of course it has drawbacks that you use it or lose it. With your example of exiling Blasphemous Act, if you don't need to cast it sounds like you're in a favorable position anyway. Cannot believe you put up Jeska's Will on the video and proceed to call it and cards like it bad while promoting Phyrexian Arena back in the black section.
I love your content, but I really do disagree. While I love constant card draw, I will play Night’s Whisper over Phyrexian Arena any day of the week. *** If I draw Night’s Whisper on turn two and cast it, it gets me two cards for two mana. If I draw and cast it on turn seven, it draws me two cards for two mana. Moreover, it’s a lot easier to find a time to cast it on subsequent turns. It doesn’t take my whole turn, so I can cast another two mana spell on turn four… maybe even one that I drew into. Or maybe it’s turn five and I need to hit a land. Arena, however, may draw me more cards if it’s not removed AND it was cast early on, it won’t get me the land drop the turn I play it. It will be four turns (if you include the turn you play it) before it draws me more cards than Night’s Whisper. And if I draw it on turn seven, the game may be effectively over by the time my next turn comes around. IF Arena said you draw a card when it enters the battlefield, it’s a completely different conversation.
5 mana draw 4 lose 4 is great. 4 mana draw 3 is garbage. Hmmm. When is harmonize a dead card if you have the mana, never. When is shaman rev dead? After a board wipe when you need it.
Painful Truths is not a given 3. You have to specifically spend 3 colours. Painful Truths and Harmonize are also sorcery spells locking up your mana where Stinging Study is an instant. He did note as well to use it when it draws you a minimum 4.
I think people are sleeping on Farsight Mask, especially with how much accidental chip damage there exists in the game and people are swinging with 1/1s just to prove a point
Card draw =/= card advantage. You are talking about card advantage, they seem similar because if you are netting a card advantage, you have to draw them but not get more than what you put in.
5:55 strongly disagree with those two. They‘re 2 for 1 baits where you lose both cards to one removal. Rishkars is a bit better but has the same danger, it baits your opponents to use their removal against you because it‘s just too good of a trade. Harmonize is just there for you man, don‘t hate on harmonize, its your friend in need.
Comparing Rhystic Study to Ancestral Recall is dumb. Of course rhystic study is better, that's why it's 3 mana. If you had the choice between a Rhystic Study and an ancestral recall that costed 3 mana and drew you 9 cards though (3 times the mana value) I bet you'd think differently about it too.
Always intresting to watch your videos. It's fascinating to see where we agree and disagree. I still don't like White card draw. There are a handful of options now, some of them work with your strategies but plenty don't. If I value a card for synergy with the rest of the deck, then something like Secret Rendezvous or Archivist of Oghma doesn't do much for me. They are just good stuff, and some of those effects aren't even that good. Giving cards to my enemies for free. Meanwhile, Red is doing fine to me. It has the impulse draw, one of the most flavorful and best designed mechanics of recent memory, that let's them see a lot more cards and "you may play those cards until the end of your next turn" style effects fix my issue of timing because it still lets you use your removal even if it isn't maximum potency
Draw depends entirely on the deck I use Ayara who pings opponents on ETB. I play cards like Dusk Legion Zealot. It ETBs draws me a card deals one damage to everyone and later I can sac it to Ayara to draw another card. In theory the replacement thing that people say makes sense, but in reality draw a single card off a draw, causes you to be one card deeper than where you would have been before. Its still card draw. Your example of the great Henge and Guardian project, or even beast whisper, still holds to true, you are down one card and then replace it with another, but no one would say those are bad cards. I disagree each color should have its own way of generating card draw (or knowledge) Be it just using mana, sacrificing life or useless pawns or useless objects, shared collective knowledge, inspired by strength, fast fleeting knowledge, making deals with opponents, taxing opponents, creatures bringing knowledge with them when they appear. Red has plenty of card draw effects but they are impulse draw.
I tend to agree with you that repeatable/incremental card draw is better than burst card draw, and cards that let you draw more based on certain situations are great. I do also like a point that was made on the EDHREC podcast about cards like harmonize, which is that the reliability of them is important to consider. Sure, Rishkar's Expertise can draw more cards but if you're in top deck mode after a board wipe, cards like Harmonize will still draw you 3 cards then and there, while Expertise or Phyrexian Arena might not draw you any. So I think a mix, if possible, is good.
Your videos are straightforward, to the point, and use clean simple visuals, with near-evergreen topics. Please keep up the amazing work.
I agree with trying to make your card draw fit your theme. Creatures in green, sacrifice in black, weenies in white, etc. But I do think those one time cards have a place as well, because I think it is also important to think of scenarios where you are behind and don't have creatures on the board in green or creatures to sac in black. I try to incorporate at least 2-4 draw cards that give me decent value in any situation as security so I can always try to have an answer.
I’m a fan of enchantments for card drawl. They tend to be more difficult to remove and usually get back cards equal too or more then the mana investment.
I always try to add around 10 card draw cards into my deck, so depending upon how many colors I am playing, I often have to use those "bad" card draw cards.
Interesting. From a flavor standpoint, the fact that red doesn’t have good card draw, but instead does impulse, is spot on. I have a mono red Laelia deck built around that. What I’ve found is, people are genuinely afraid of impulse draw. The amount of cards I get to see, and potentially play each turn, is up there with any aggressive card draw deck I’ve ever played or played against
For the argument for panful truth vs phrexian arena, I sort of disagree, if let's say you play one of those card on them on turn three painful truth can you get 3 three card immediately versus phrexian arena you need like 3 whole turn to get the same amount of card. Yes if you have arena for a while it's worth but also if they let say removed it from the moment you play you got no card which kind of suck. Yeah it is better to have painful in three color, but I don't like how slow arena is.
Painful Truths is a great draw on turn 10, Phyrexian Arena is awful.
Phyrexian Arena needs to be on the field a whole 4 turns to match Painful Truths.
And it's actually still worse at that point, as with Painful Truths you've had time to utilize and build velocity from the cards.
10:45 Rhystic Study is casual now 😭 this FORMAT is busted
I just got an esper sentinel for my Jirina Kudro deck, haha seeing my opponents souls leave their bodies when they have to pay 3 is the best feeling
You're my ultimate source of mtg deck building! Thx you 😊
I think a lot of people underestimate the effect of cantrips. They are among the most underrated cards in MTG.
One of the things that divides EDH from 60 card formats is unreliability. They have looked at a fraction of the picture and concluded that deck thinning in EDH is not useful. They are dead wrong. Cantrips, especially those you mention, are a cheap way to do this. A cantrip played = 1/50th of your deck thinned, so 5 is 1/10th - that's a ton. In the case of the ones you mentioned, it also allows you to control those draws with scries and place one top effects. While not game-breaking, this does allow you to shuffle unwanted cards away in conjunction with fetches or top etc. This lets you dig for lands when you're screwed or to shuffle them away when flooded. It also lets you shuffle away a high CMC spell in the early game or cheap ramp in the late game when you need something better.
What is important to remember is that cantrips should NEVER replace card draw. If you take out your card draw and put in cantrips then you are doing it wrong. You want both. You want to push through your deck quickly, and get to the cards that allow you to win. If I'm designing around cantrips, I want at least 5 cantrips and at least 10 draw effects. This is improved if you have access to green and add in low cost ramp spells that search/shuffle - white can do this too, but not as well. The key is low cost and shuffle to ramp out lands - not rocks.
The other important thing is to remember that you kind of mentioned, is that you need to incorporate deck building synergy to make this style of play work. Effects that capitalize on draws or cast instant/sorceries. Storm. Etc. Cantrip style play does NOT work in every deck. Off the top of my head there is really only support for it in blue, red, and white. This way, every time you pay your 1 or 2 mana to cantrip, you are getting additional value. If this is a token, great. If its mana (many Simic legendaries do this), even better because you can get multiple low cost spells for the price of 1 and amass value quickly.
Finally, the drawback to this style - you are choosing speed and efficiency over packing your deck with more interesting cards. Plain and simple. A lot of people (I think you fall into this group) mostly play EDH for the big fun cards you can play. Cantrips are certainly NOT that. The are grindy cogs in a machine that spits out winning. Two totally different viewpoints of play.
@ Demo
1 black card draw spell worth considering is ‘plumb the forbidden’.
On ‘Rhystic Study’ it depends. The more casual the games are, the less tuned their decks are and on average the easier it will be for your opponents to “pay the 1”.
The less casual the games however the more appealing ‘Rhystic Study’ becomes.
I haven't used that one before. Good shout out. Looks like a great card!
@ Demo
One hidden gem of a card draw option I’ve come across for budget black or black heavy decks is transmogrant’s crown which I see as sort of a skullclamp lite.
That card is nice. You can see its a fixed skullclamp in black
There is just something fun about Red impulse draw, namely the gambling aspect. I never meant to have 3 mono Red decks but I do, LOL, and they are all fun from the impulse draw choices I make. I like how Red feels like your going fast with the silly impulse card draw. The most important thing I note when it comes to discarding cards in Red is all about understanding what cards you need in that moment to win, something that a lot of beginning players may struggle with :P
I put minds eye in my galazeth prismari, dragons approach deck after I watched a video were you talked about that card and I gotta say it’s been a great edition. The fact that I can tap it for mana because of galazeth and then when my hands empty or low I can just pay 1 mana when other people draw cards is awesome. I have multiple times where I’ll have some mana up to draw when someone else draws, then get a counter spell and then tap it to cast said counter spell.
One of my favorite draw spells in blue when I have high cmc permanents out is Rush of Knowledge, I play it in a Nezahal deck and with no max hand size this cards feels great to use every time, I even added a few more high cmc cards like some budget eldrazi to really capitalize off it
demo, just wanted to say thank you for what you bring to the commander community, i’ve been trying to take your advice and such when building decks and i’ve been enjoying deck building so much more!
Excellent video
Couldn't agree more with your overview. Would just add in blue the etb creatures (Muldrifter, Lord of Change, Seagate Oracle...) and the "combat damage to opponent draw" (Bident of Thassa, Coastal Piracy, Reconnaissance Mission...). They are strategy dependent of course, but pretty powerful draw.
I'm fine-tuning an Ian Malcom, Chaotician deck, which I think is another card that complicates this conversation. Great video!
I just built an Alibou Jewish Space Laser mana rock deck and was looking to find some good card draw to keep dumping rocks out! Thinking I might need more protection, but I need to play with it a little first
I agree about having permanents that just sit there accruing card advantage for you. I try to have more of those in my deck than just one-shots. But if I can run something like Stinging Study or Monumental Corruption to draw 6 or more cards I’m definitely running those.
I also like permanents over spells but i do find in higher power decks (not cedh) just having a good hand refill that draws 5+ cards is much better.
I still play a few repeatable effects though.
Another category in green is if you're playing a lot of mid-sized creatures - Garruk's Uprising and Tribute to the World tree. I have Garruk's Uprising in my Omnath, Locus of Rage deck. I will be putting in Tribute to the World Tree when I get my hands on a copy.
I’ve stopped playing rhystic in casual, I almost never draw cards with my playgroup, everybody just pays until someone removes it. It’s just not fun and I’d rather have card draw that doesn’t rely on my opponents
What are your thoughts on Pyschic Possession? Another card that sticks around like Rhystic or Arena, and has been a workhorse for me in many contexts as you can almost guarantee your opponents will be drawing cards beyond their 1st. Even better with any symmetrical draws in your deck.
Big Score and Unexpected Windfall, are great imo. Especially with a recursion or graveyard theme 🤘🏼
I think you missed out on talking about wheels
I know it's not the best to feed your opponents, but there is upside in it too; like wheeling an opponent who just played a tutor.
Also maybe it helps another player who needs the cards to help get you out of a sticky situation, politics is another method wheels can be great.
Wheels, I love them!
The advantage of burst draw can depend on if you're ahead on the board and want to maintain momentum. Instead of waiting later turns to to play 5-7 mana draw spells for huge late game value, an aggressive deck would rather spend 2-3 mana drawing two to theee rather than dumping their hand or waiting till it's too late to add weight to their gameplan.
I really like the new red wheel, Valakut awakening and into the fire are pretty greaty
Don´t forget Runic Armasaur, a great Creature for Carddraw, when abilities become activated!
I have found Greater Good to be great in green. Someone targets your creature for removal... as a reaction sac to GG to get value for losing the creature. In my Ghalta deck... attack with Ghalta, sac to GG draw 12... play Ghalta for ... I see it as "pay give target Ghalta vigilance and draw 12 cards." Haha😂
Card draw is one of things I single the most with for sure when deck building
At 7:35 or so, you say youre expecting a casual game to go long, but my playgroups idea of long is turn 7 half(if not all) the pod should be dead lol. I NEED to be drawing cards on turn 2. I have to get through my deck as fast as possible to keep up and even then im probably going to lose anyways.
Skullmulcher is awesome in green token decks. I run 7-8 devour effects in my phylath deck and it's great.
My favorite card draw in black is peer into the abyss. It either finds me anything i need or i kill an opponent with it
Anyone who plays black, doom weaver is a heavily underrated card draw creature
Cantrips are good in storm decks.
What happened to Syphon Mind? It used to be a staple for black decks but now you barely see it.
There is one advantageous aspect of one shot card draw versus something like Rhystic Study in Commander and that is the attention it draws. I rarely have players asking who has the most cards… 2, 3, 7… I will attack the player with 7 cards… but an early on Rhystic Study on board is going to get me negative attention for certain. Even if my hand is empty. It’s like a first turn Sol Ring or Mana Crypt for getting you attacked.
I know its very specific but because my fav mono color to play is red, one of my personal fav commanders is purphoros bronze blooded. Turning so many overcosted great creatures into 3 mana spells for card draw and removal really helps. Its like i run 6 Wheel of Fortunes in one deck 😂
For those tall green deck's Life's Legacy(one shot) or Greater good (enchantment) are great options
The point is valid on repeatable card draw - Phyrexian Arena, et all will draw you more cards for the mana than one-shot effects over the course of virtually any commander game. That said, the early turns of the game are super critical (making land drops and ramping out resources specifically). You fall behind early, you are usually dead on the board no matter what your deck can do.
Cheap draw spells are vital for this phase of the game - sign in blood, night's whisper, etc. If all your card draw costs 4+ mana but draws you more cards, that's all well and good except you may have lost so much time early in the game that it won't matter anymore.
And yeah, it's a bit of a hot take to say you'd run Rhystic Study over Ancestral because it's a non-sensical choice. You'd run both in basically every blue deck because they are both insane (which is an argument for banning Rhystic Study honestly - what blue deck isn't better with this card in it?).
My working theory is I need 12 cards, that I can plausible tell myself a story that they will draw me at least 3 cards for a total investment of 1.5 mana (or equivalent in other resources) per card. Less than 1.5 mana per card is busted and more than 2 is just bad. So harmonize is good enough because it gets you 3 cards for 1.33 mana per card and does so now (there is probably an Net Present Value for incremental card draw that should be applied that I haven't figured out yet).
Wouldn't Black Market Connections be better than Phyrexian Arena for repeatable card draw (and treasure!, and tokens!)?
its an extra life per card for the same mana value. life as a resource is perfectly fine but without a life gain strategy, losing 1-6 life per turn, that can add up fast. the extra stuff does add allure. id probably rank them about the same level personally for general face value. in a life gain or low health matters deck, id rank BMC a bit higher. in general, both are great
Red is extremely good at card advantage via impulse draw. Every color has a way to achieve card advantage, whether it’s traditional draw or not.
I have started moving away from the big draw x spells and been happy with playing more 2-mana draw 2 spells. The reason being two-fold, one that it's so painful to basically take an entire turn off from casting spells just to draw 4-5 cards. With sign in blood or expressive iteration, you get to keep the card flow going and still cast a meaningful spell that turn.
Two, is that cheap burst draw can help you draw into lands in the early game to keep hitting your land drops, which can let you keep a 2-lander more confidently. A 5-mana draw spell doesn't do that for you if it's in your opening hand.
Somebody at Wizards made a typo and gave Red has card drawl instead of card draw.
Oh I’ve definitely paid for a late game mystic remora trigger before, after a field wipe and all I had was mana. I might be the first in history, put me in the books!
One thing that stops me from playing a lot of the cards mentioned in here is the CMC of those spells.
Low CMC repeated draw effects are great for early game to get a lasting advantage.
Low to Medium CMC immediate draw also good for late game to get yourself over the edge on that last part you need to win or dig for that answer you need.
High CMC sorcery speed immediate draw like Collective Unconscious are out for me. They get you the cards in hand but then the game can easily be over before you get to use them since your mana is spent and the whole turn got dedicated to drawing cards and then needing to wait for the next turn to actually use them. This just sets up for the “If I only had 1 more turn” end of game feelings because you got the cards in hand but never got to use them.
High CMC repeated draw like well of lost dreams is a bit hard as well. You drop 4 mana for no immediate effect and then need to tax yourself going forward for eventual returns. You can’t do it early game because of the CMC and then late game you can’t wait for the returns to come in.
I disagree. I believe you need both oneshots of cardraw and permanents that repeat themselves. Preferably all of them should have synergy, but I think a simple sign in blood can get you off a tight spot when you don't have your strategy online
Yeah was thinking the same thing. It’s good to have bombs that can draw you lots of cards IF you have the right board state, but IMO you also need those cheap, unconditional effects like Sign in Blood and Read the Bones
So at the beginning of the video you were saying that one mana for one card is not worth it, and at the end you said one mana for two cards is "totally broken"
So where is the middle ground on that exactly? What would be a decent mana/card ratio in your opinion?
Cantrips have their place depending on the deck, brainstorm is fantastic in a deck where topdeck manipulation is important. Ponder is much better than you make out and is probably the best cantrip in the game, Ponder let's you shuffle which can clear out the top of your deck or give you the information of the next 2 draws.
Rhystic study beats Ancestrial Recall everyday, and twice on Saturday
Goddd THANK YOU I've been saying that red has been the worst color for card draw for AGES
Recycle (green)/Null Profusion (black) is great card draw for low mana base decks. Play a card, draw a card. Yeah, your hand size goes down to 2 but if you can quickly cycle through your deck, it's worth it, imo.
For me personally I'd have to be super desperate for card draw options to use something like Well of Lost Dreams and it's not even because of how good or bad the card is but more because of my play style. If I have to pay mana every time I gain just to be able to draw cards then I won't have any mana left to play anything that was already in my hand to begin with let alone anything I had just drawn. Which to me makes everything in my hand just useless for a turn. Imo cards like sign in blood and faithless looting, while obviously not netting me cards, will dig me down deeper into my deck and ultimately provide me more value in the long run. Granted I don't particularly use those cards either but I would use them over Well if I had to choose. In my mono white deck I do in fact run Tocasia's Welcome, Welcoming Vampire, Bennie Bracks, and some other long term value draw cards and im just waiting for the day I pull off having both Bennie and Smothering Tithe on the field at the same time lol
I think ive recently realized that I like card draw cards that draw you multiple cards in 1 go better than card draw cards that draw you cards over time
Red card draw has to be tempered by Standard/Modern formats. With its direct damage and aggro, the archetype is typically that while red burns hot it burns out… with a lot of card draw, mono red would just relentlessly sweep through opponents in 2 player formats.
I cannot even begin to count the number games ponder has won me
While I agree that they are wildly overplayed, I think there are a lot of decks that can benefit from the cheap draw spells in U/B/R. I see it as a way to reduce the number of cards in the deck. And sure, Black and Blue are pretty good at tutoring, there is a noise component to that. You hit a tutor, especially in black, and your opponents know you just got the best card in your deck and you are a priority. On the other side, if you are blasting through Ponders and Sign In Bloods, your opponents are going to be thinking something a lot closer to "Well, he basically just skipped his turn" and leave you alone.
Based off the thumbnail I was hoping you busted out the pen and paper, literally started drawing cards 😂
You haven't lived until you play Painful Thruths for WUBRG through Jodah to draw 5
I have a life gain deck and well if lost dreams is still too clunky
My commanders/decks are almost always built around a search ability on my commander or my creatures. So yes, Demmo would likely destroy me and every player with my playstyle in a commander game, if he brought a deck with white to the table, courtesy of his Archivist of Oghma.
Ancestral Recall for CEDH, Rhystic Study for EDH.
Instants and sorceries that draw still have their place, they're a lot faster than permanents (useful if you need an answer or combo piece asap). Not to mention permanents can just get destroyed before you get any value off of them, then you're out that much mana and you drew nothing.
About Ancestral Recall vs Rhystic Study, I can see the point casual EDH but, for competitive, tapping out on turn 2 or 3 to maybe draw 3 cards by the next turn is already too slow. In cEDH decks are built to win on turn 3-4, Ancestral Recall will be a no-brainer over Rhystic Study.
who is Cardra? :P
long live EDHdeckbuilding !
Hey edh been watching your channel for a few weeks. With some of the insight of your video I am under the impression that I've built a powerful 3 color deck.
Is there anyway of personally messaging you about a commissioned review and critique of the deck I've made.
I take criticism very well,
I would just like a pro to say "Hey that's terrible" or "damn that's pretty ok."
One way or the other I'll be getting put on track of what to change and How to make it as strong as possible.
It is black,Blue, and white.
Heavily leaning towards tokens being cast.
I know everyone has their life, If this is something you do infact "do" I'd like to here from you.
Thank you
I need to know, Demo. I'm trying to warm up to SPECIFICALLY Harmonize because the card will always be 3 cards. Always. If it resolves, you get 3 cards. Following a board wipe, it's 3 cards. Casting it without a Guardian Project, again. It's 3 cards. What synonyms are there for this?
- Card draw
- Specific number
- Independent of creature count
You just get board wiped. Likely Farewell nowdays. It happens. What are you wanting to draw the following turn?
well if a farewell just resolved it's likely later in the game so i want something that's going to draw me more than 3. stinging study (with a 6+ cmc commander) would be nice.
Wizards r&d has basically said that impulse draw is how red is going to draw cards and they’re not going to give it actual card draw other than wheels
Villis, Broker of Blood makes Necropotence even more broken.
I put brainstorm in my Dimir zombie deck for the lulz
Personally. Rhystic studies doesn’t draw me 9 cards in casual commander. 3 cards at end step before untap feels like 0 mana, trade 1card for 3.
White has no budget ways to draw cards. In my playgroup, we are build 50-100 dollar decks, and the W draw cards are half the budget in one card.
now there is Trouble in Pairs for white...insane in commander as card draw
I feel better playing recall then study. I know it sounds weird. But I feel study is not fun and playing a card that let's me go plus 2 is at least a little fun for combos.
Ancestral recall because in a good group study is a tax not a draw card.
Imo, Ancestral Recall is better than Rystic because it is under your control. With Rystic, your opponents can deny you the card draw, and good opponents often will. I'm a cautious sort of player, so an ability entirely under my own control gets good points over one dependant on my opponents.
You can't have enough good permanents that draw you cards, after the 5th or 6th one the sorceries become a better option.
Rhystic is #1 for sure but if Ancestral Recall was unbanned every deck with blue run it for sure. Instant speed draw 3 for such little investment is silly. There is nothing better for on the spot card draw
Red isn't supposed to get efficient raw card draw, impulse draw is its thing. Of course it has drawbacks that you use it or lose it. With your example of exiling Blasphemous Act, if you don't need to cast it sounds like you're in a favorable position anyway. Cannot believe you put up Jeska's Will on the video and proceed to call it and cards like it bad while promoting Phyrexian Arena back in the black section.
Where's "The One Ring"?
I’m with you. I much prefer value enchantments and artifacts over instant and sorceries
I love your content, but I really do disagree. While I love constant card draw, I will play Night’s Whisper over Phyrexian Arena any day of the week.
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If I draw Night’s Whisper on turn two and cast it, it gets me two cards for two mana. If I draw and cast it on turn seven, it draws me two cards for two mana. Moreover, it’s a lot easier to find a time to cast it on subsequent turns. It doesn’t take my whole turn, so I can cast another two mana spell on turn four… maybe even one that I drew into. Or maybe it’s turn five and I need to hit a land. Arena, however, may draw me more cards if it’s not removed AND it was cast early on, it won’t get me the land drop the turn I play it. It will be four turns (if you include the turn you play it) before it draws me more cards than Night’s Whisper. And if I draw it on turn seven, the game may be effectively over by the time my next turn comes around. IF Arena said you draw a card when it enters the battlefield, it’s a completely different conversation.
Rhystic study is the best card draw card in the game, hands down
Skrlev is my commander
5 mana draw 4 lose 4 is great. 4 mana draw 3 is garbage. Hmmm. When is harmonize a dead card if you have the mana, never. When is shaman rev dead? After a board wipe when you need it.
Painful Truths is not a given 3. You have to specifically spend 3 colours. Painful Truths and Harmonize are also sorcery spells locking up your mana where Stinging Study is an instant. He did note as well to use it when it draws you a minimum 4.
I think people are sleeping on Farsight Mask, especially with how much accidental chip damage there exists in the game and people are swinging with 1/1s just to prove a point
it can be incredible in certain situations.
Card draw =/= card advantage. You are talking about card advantage, they seem similar because if you are netting a card advantage, you have to draw them but not get more than what you put in.
5:55 strongly disagree with those two. They‘re 2 for 1 baits where you lose both cards to one removal. Rishkars is a bit better but has the same danger, it baits your opponents to use their removal against you because it‘s just too good of a trade. Harmonize is just there for you man, don‘t hate on harmonize, its your friend in need.
to be fair, anyone using brainstorm, ponder, and preordain, are not using them for card draw.
Comparing Rhystic Study to Ancestral Recall is dumb. Of course rhystic study is better, that's why it's 3 mana. If you had the choice between a Rhystic Study and an ancestral recall that costed 3 mana and drew you 9 cards though (3 times the mana value) I bet you'd think differently about it too.
Always intresting to watch your videos. It's fascinating to see where we agree and disagree. I still don't like White card draw. There are a handful of options now, some of them work with your strategies but plenty don't. If I value a card for synergy with the rest of the deck, then something like Secret Rendezvous or Archivist of Oghma doesn't do much for me. They are just good stuff, and some of those effects aren't even that good. Giving cards to my enemies for free.
Meanwhile, Red is doing fine to me. It has the impulse draw, one of the most flavorful and best designed mechanics of recent memory, that let's them see a lot more cards and "you may play those cards until the end of your next turn" style effects fix my issue of timing because it still lets you use your removal even if it isn't maximum potency
Draw depends entirely on the deck I use Ayara who pings opponents on ETB. I play cards like Dusk Legion Zealot. It ETBs draws me a card deals one damage to everyone and later I can sac it to Ayara to draw another card.
In theory the replacement thing that people say makes sense, but in reality draw a single card off a draw, causes you to be one card deeper than where you would have been before. Its still card draw.
Your example of the great Henge and Guardian project, or even beast whisper, still holds to true, you are down one card and then replace it with another, but no one would say those are bad cards.
I disagree each color should have its own way of generating card draw (or knowledge)
Be it just using mana, sacrificing life or useless pawns or useless objects, shared collective knowledge, inspired by strength, fast fleeting knowledge, making deals with opponents, taxing opponents, creatures bringing knowledge with them when they appear.
Red has plenty of card draw effects but they are impulse draw.
I disagree. Green is not the best at card draw.