I love my shunt but I would never use it as a back up like that basically for the reason you just showed. I didn't even realize someone would do that. I use my shunt on top and a jumar with teeth as my back up. Haven't had a problem yet! Great video and love your work!
Thanks for the uncomfortable testing, Yann! Since the 1970s I have solo top roped on one dynamic rope. My main device was always a Gibbs. After getting married in 1994, I added a second device below. My standard setup for a long time was: Above, held up by an elastic loop over my neck: Spring-loaded Gibbs, and Below: a handleless Petzl ascender (toothed). For the last 4 or 5 years I've used a Roll'n'Lock below. The Gibbs has held 100% of the time, probably thousands of falls and hangs. Yes, it could fail. If it did, do you believe the Roll'n'Lock will hold?
That is a GREAT question. Do you extend the Gibbs at all? A week ago I would have said that you were fine. But there seems to be a new consensus that the RollNLock has seen too many failure modes to still be recommended. And the more I think about it, the more it makes sense. I would prefer you buy the course 😜😜😜 So today, after the consensus about the RollNLock, I would recommend you go for a Micro Traxion as the backup. But look: someone had his MT fail on 50 feet in 2021. So one might want to buff the small metal part that enables the cam to hold up. Makes sense???
Interesting, Yann. The Gibbs is NOT extended. The Gibbs is held UP and with NO SLACK by the 1.5" elastic band over the back of my neck and through the Gibbs's carabiner hole. (No chest harness, though I know that is another method of keeping the upper device at maximum height with no slack.) Keeping the Gibbs up is the reason it (a) holds reliably, and (b) has NEVER come into contact with my second, lower device -- which trails below my master loop. Using two ropes is best, but for almost all of my top ropes it would be too much weight to bring a second rope. (Maybe I should just pack the extra weight, for the climbs with shorter and non-technical unroped approaches!)
Very cool! Rather than absolutely needing a teethed device on the bottom, wouldn't a simple extension on the top device solve the problem? Merci pour les tests Yann!
An extension would be a good start but there is no garantee that the extension will remain when you fall. If anything pulls on the upper device "shortcutting" the extension, you could be in trouble. For example if a carabiner gets crossloaded (like it happened during the filming), it will reduce an extension and possibly making the whole thing unsafe. Teeth!
Wow! So a user should ensure the top device does not interfere with the bottom device? Also back up knots are required (if you want to have a long life).
In general yes. Interference is usually a bad thing. But note that it can always happen. Almost impossible to prevent entirely. Each device has its list of known "failure modes" including specific interference types. Pretty complicated. There is a lot to know in that field! And more to discover as more people experiment and more devices come out. It is possible to make a reasonably safe system without backup knots. But some people might ALWAYS want backup knots. That's fine!!
There's a route I like to TRS where my Taz Lov always fails at the crux. It hits my roll n lock or microtrax backup and then engages. Device interference isn't necessarily a big problem, you just have to make sure you think through the interference and test it.
@@RickyHarline Hi Ricky!! I would love to see you post about this very situation. I thought that was possible with that very situation but would have a hard time making it happen!!! A video of the very situation would be priceless!!!
@@Ajaxx827 I have seen people use similar setups more than once. If you know what you do, you know. But a lot of climbers watching don't know. They can learn from it. Thanks!
Thanks Yann, so back up knots it is for me, which type of knots do you use?. I use a shunt on a single 11mm rope and back up knots which are figure of 8 loops. Don't trust the shunt so climb well within my ability.
Thank you again! If you use a device with teeths like the micro traxion on the bottom and the main one, Revo above, and if the microtraxion is working only as a backup and to loop the rope, would passing the rope through the microtraxion in this configuration damage the rope?
For TRS use? If so, loading the Micro Traxion will result in "bad loading" of the Revo and will probably break the closing system of the Revo. Not an obvious problem... I know it's hard to find a comprehensive and reliable source of information on this topic. That's why I did my research, bought equipment, experimented and adopted a way to teach rope soloing. I like to refer to my complete online courses. My reasons are the following: -It is dangerous to have partial information about security systems -I need an income to continue my mission to teach and innovate I would love to help you find answers to your questions! I suggest the following solutions: -An in-person course (blissclimbing-com.translate.goog/fr/formations/?_x_tr_sl=fr&_x_tr_tl=en) -An online course (blissclimbing.com/en/online-courses/) -A subscription to my Patreon (I answer on the platform) (www.patreon.com/blissclimbing) I prefer to refer to complete courses. The courses should answer 99% of your questions and show you more things you haven't even thought of AND that are essential to being effective and safe! For any remaining questions, I answer every question asked by my clients and try to post everything on the hidden private Facebook groups reserved for buyers of online courses so that all buyers can benefit. I also very often add content to the courses because there is so much to say and teach on the subject AND I still learn quite often! You can always ask your questions on the “regular” public Facebook rope solo groups, but you won't get all correct answers and probably nothing complete. That's why my suggestion is to take the courses!! Looking forward to seeing you buy a course: you will be happy with your choice!!!
@@PaulEdler I have 55kg and 80kg dummies but they are a pain to haul / drop AND they are a danger I have to manage because they could fall on me... Doing it myself was the sensible choice.
I top-rope solo with a camp lift on top and a petzl micro traxion on bottom. I don’t bother keeping them separated because the camp lift locks upwards and the petzl micro traxion locks downwards. Is my thinking flawed? I can foresee no situation in which they would interfere with each other so long as the camp lift is on top and the petzl micro traxion is on bottom. Any insight appreciated!
Your thinking is reasonable with these devices. BUT you could damage your devices doing what you do. THEN you would be at risk using some damaged gear. That is what I can see as of today. Better separate them. What do you think?
Great video Yann, just so I understand; did you flip or lockout your CT RollNLock so that it would never engage? Why no Petzl microtraxion?! That’s the token top rope solo tool!
The disturbing thing is that this is very close to how belay devices can fail if dragged into a carabiner, by a falling climber. Pressure on the front/leading end of the device unloads the locking pivot mechanism, in the same way as a hand does when rapid-feeding rope out - not at all a safe use.
I agree! A good amount of reflex is needed from the belayer to make belay safer: the device is not foolproof… A good end on the break strand is always a good thing!!!
Thank you for sharing Yann. If all these teethless diveces failed, why have them at all? Even if they are the top device, and you have a teeth device below them, wouldnt they still fail the same way?
A lot of people like to have a no teethless device as primary to be gentle on the rope. Also some like the LOV devices to have instantly rappelable system (great by the way!!). For these reasons a teethless device on top is a great option. They usually grab fine if you take care to let them do their job (nothing hinders the system). Teeth devices can also fail by the way... Makes sense?
Can you please test the MadRock- safeguard as this device is not spring activated and should lock right away as opposed to the lifeguard that you tested already? Also, you should test the Singing Rock-SIR, as this device is also rated for repelling, belaying, and work positioning.
I start to have mileage on the safeguard. Good to LRS, good to rappel, not good to TRS (I did not find how to make the rope feed easily through it). If you have a SIR for me, I would love to test it!!! Thanks!
I am not sure I understand your questions. But the vast majority of devices with teeth (except the tibloc that might just ruin my rope) or the Edelrid Fuse would likely stop my fall in this test. Does that answer any part of your questions?
actualy people wrongly put progres capture device to near with descender, and when fall the device will put togeter and failing descender locking mechanism. also there one device that can still locking good with your current setup please try with gnome ice rock because the mechanism were reverse lock, different with any common descender
What about having an eye to eye hitchcord about 30" which is above the device which attaches to the carabiner that goes through the Trango-Vergo? It seems easy to control when u hold the hitch with one hand? I usually tie a Knut or Distel & the rapell lever is something u can operate with the other hand & u never open it up all the way. With a CT Quick-roll hand ascender it is the smoothest I've used in ascending.😮
Seems to me you are discussing about a rappel setup, is this correct? Or would you see the eye to eye hitchcord valdotain above the Vergo for a Top Rope Solo use? Thanks!!
@@YannCamusBlissClimbing It's for ascending in an application with a rapelling device. The tag line where people have made videos using a Madrock or Gri Gri & they put some kind of a block system on the tag end of their line. This is not what they should be doing. That is why b4 they climb that they have a figure 8 stopper knot. I can climb 20 feet effortlessly. Everyone of my climbing lines whether hunting or arborist work, SRT or MRS they all have a pulley/hitchcord configuration. I have 2 bridges on my saddle I use for 🌳 cutting. B4 I cut I have a safety climbing line to my accessory bridge to a 🌳 I'm not climbing but nearby. Then I have my climbing rope in the main 🌳. B4 I ever turn the saw on I put my linesman around the tree below the rigging ring & I have a floater on it to choke all the slack out of the system. It also allows me to move in one direction but I can't move to the side where the branch will be falling in my rigging system. A lot of gear going on so I always measure 5× & cut once. I pay attention to my hitchcords. I use the knut, distel & Michoacan. Some cords depending on my line I go 4 or 5 wraps. My adjustable bridges r fitted with a Michoacon. My linesman too has a Michoacan. On my SRT I found that I have to go with a shorter bridge than when I MRS climb. U never get a second chance to make a good 1st impression. I'm glad u made this video cuz alot of hunters that don't climb trees many months of the year need the shock value that u showed & if that doesn't get through to them about thinking of ways to make things simpler that offers more redundancy that they r in jeopardy. Especially in the dark. Everything is risk/reward & just doing one thing like not installing the right style carabiner into their system that does not have a triple locking mechanism is life threatening. I have 2 screw gate style carabines that I have permanently attached to loops on my linesmans rope on 2 different saddles. The screw gate is screwed shut. I took a Gorilla tape patching roll which is similar to the stuff they waterproof the bottom section of roofs with. I would have to burn it off to remove it! U can never be too careful. Thanks again for your video that shows that u always need a backup in your system that isn't a stopper knot. Take care 🙂.
Non. Je fais surtout des tests pour découvrir les limites des systèmes. Si ça fonctionne, je grimpe dessus et je tombes souvent. Je me “teste” pas… ça fait du sens?
@@YannCamusBlissClimbing Aha ok ithink i get it now. So because the devices had no load on them while you did fall into the rope they did not engage in a breaking manouver. And because they had not been at the highest point in the rope while falling there was no friction that could initiate the primary start friction that was needed to engage them. And the Kong was in the way where they had their sweet spot where they actualy would engage. Ok but why the hassle? When another device is in the spot where the other should do a job the job could not been done because another tool used that space already. Kind of interesting but dangerous... Stay safe man stay safe!
@@fearlyenrage this kind of setup has been done!! Just want to make people think and realize teeth are needed as the bottom device! Otherwise the top device can easily cancel the bottom one. Makes sense?
Some people think the RNL is not reliable enough. But as of today, I would agree with that. Especially with a few inches (4?) of extension for the RNL to be a bit away from the MT.
@@YannCamusBlissClimbing couls you perhaps make a clip about the downsides of the RnL? I got one for this purpose so it would be useful info to at least one person.😅
@@daanschone1548 I will make one but I will put it in the course ;-) If you buy the TRS course I will make it in a pinch. I already started editing it I believe!
specifying the exact make/model/size rope would have especially been important for this video as while some of those devices ask for ranging between 8.5 mm and 11, some devices there allow a narrower range, others specifically ask for 10.5 mm static and nothing else. i know the point of the video is interference between devices and not the rope, i'm just always frustrated when it gets glossed over. isn't it almost the most important part?
Agreed!! It is an important part!! You are the first to ask LOL. It is a Petzl 9.8mm (dynamic single rope) from about 10 years ago. Very slightly used and stored in good conditions.
Not exactly the same as when on rappel, you go slow and keep control over things. During TR solo, the system has to work without any tending in all scenarios. So extension is good but teeth are also required to make the system more foolproof
How about putting the toothless device up top with an extension so they don't interfere with a chest harness/strap to keep the top one up ensuring it is the primary device to engage?
@@patc9102 i hâte this device. It is the most beautiful and grabs the worst. Seriously change your device and your setup. A friend had his Rescucender slip 2 m. He was so scared he never TRSed again.
@@YannCamusBlissClimbing i have been very happy with it in the progression I have used it. Stated slowly in my barn to learn it's behavior. Big take away is to use a quick link instead of a carabiner to make the device lock quickly. Merci pour tes idées.
This is not the subject. All devices tested are great for their intended purposes... But people getting into more complicated setups must be careful and get proper training.
All devices / systems have a failure mode; it’s better to be aware ; one might think an extra device adds to safety but in this case it doesn’t. My back aches just watching this.😊
Suppose someone wants to backup their roll lock or traxion with any of these devices. They might not be aware that these devices aren't suitable as a backup underneath the upper devices.
Thanks for doing all that human testing for us! 😂
Thanks for sharing my stuff man 🙂 I still have a linescale I will eventually get to you 😜😜
Wow! That was eye-opening! Fair play to you for putting your body through all those falls for our benefit!
Thanks so much!!
Thought I was the only crazy guy whipping like that! 😂 Great job Yann
Thanks Josh!!!
"I'm scared" - He says with a calm face :D This was entertaining :D thanks for testing!
Thanks Ben!! :-)
Awesome test! Thank you! We should always check the relation of rope and our devices, and never take device auto lock for granted.
Great video Yan, thanks for the hard work!
Thanks for leaving a comment!!
I love my shunt but I would never use it as a back up like that basically for the reason you just showed. I didn't even realize someone would do that. I use my shunt on top and a jumar with teeth as my back up. Haven't had a problem yet!
Great video and love your work!
Sounds good. Thanks for the comment!!
Such a failed movie 🎉 hope people learn from it! switching around or extending the top device. Great testing keep up the good work❤
Thanks Dennis!!! You too can keep on testing 🤩🤩🤩. Take care!! Can you find a Fuse for me? Are they available in Europe yet?
Thanks for the uncomfortable testing, Yann!
Since the 1970s I have solo top roped on one dynamic rope. My main device was always a Gibbs. After getting married in 1994, I added a second device below.
My standard setup for a long time was:
Above, held up by an elastic loop over my neck: Spring-loaded Gibbs, and
Below: a handleless Petzl ascender (toothed).
For the last 4 or 5 years I've used a Roll'n'Lock below.
The Gibbs has held 100% of the time, probably thousands of falls and hangs. Yes, it could fail. If it did, do you believe the Roll'n'Lock will hold?
That is a GREAT question. Do you extend the Gibbs at all? A week ago I would have said that you were fine. But there seems to be a new consensus that the RollNLock has seen too many failure modes to still be recommended. And the more I think about it, the more it makes sense. I would prefer you buy the course 😜😜😜 So today, after the consensus about the RollNLock, I would recommend you go for a Micro Traxion as the backup. But look: someone had his MT fail on 50 feet in 2021. So one might want to buff the small metal part that enables the cam to hold up. Makes sense???
Interesting, Yann. The Gibbs is NOT extended. The Gibbs is held UP and with NO SLACK by the 1.5" elastic band over the back of my neck and through the Gibbs's carabiner hole. (No chest harness, though I know that is another method of keeping the upper device at maximum height with no slack.)
Keeping the Gibbs up is the reason it (a) holds reliably, and (b) has NEVER come into contact with my second, lower device -- which trails below my
master loop.
Using two ropes is best, but for almost all of my top ropes it would be too much weight to bring a second rope. (Maybe I should just pack the extra weight, for the climbs with shorter and non-technical unroped approaches!)
@@YannCamusBlissClimbing hello Yann
Can you tell a little bit more about rollnrock failure.
Very cool! Rather than absolutely needing a teethed device on the bottom, wouldn't a simple extension on the top device solve the problem? Merci pour les tests Yann!
An extension would be a good start but there is no garantee that the extension will remain when you fall. If anything pulls on the upper device "shortcutting" the extension, you could be in trouble. For example if a carabiner gets crossloaded (like it happened during the filming), it will reduce an extension and possibly making the whole thing unsafe. Teeth!
Wow! So a user should ensure the top device does not interfere with the bottom device? Also back up knots are required (if you want to have a long life).
In general yes. Interference is usually a bad thing. But note that it can always happen. Almost impossible to prevent entirely. Each device has its list of known "failure modes" including specific interference types. Pretty complicated. There is a lot to know in that field! And more to discover as more people experiment and more devices come out. It is possible to make a reasonably safe system without backup knots. But some people might ALWAYS want backup knots. That's fine!!
There's a route I like to TRS where my Taz Lov always fails at the crux. It hits my roll n lock or microtrax backup and then engages.
Device interference isn't necessarily a big problem, you just have to make sure you think through the interference and test it.
@@RickyHarline Hi Ricky!! I would love to see you post about this very situation. I thought that was possible with that very situation but would have a hard time making it happen!!! A video of the very situation would be priceless!!!
@@YannCamusBlissClimbing ok, sure. That crag is snowed in right now but will become accessible soon. I'll try and make a video about it.
If i place it perfectly to fail, it fails perfectly 😂
🙂
Exactly. All devices fail according to this failed experimental design.
@@Ajaxx827 I have seen people use similar setups more than once. If you know what you do, you know. But a lot of climbers watching don't know. They can learn from it. Thanks!
Thanks Yann, so back up knots it is for me, which type of knots do you use?. I use a shunt on a single 11mm rope and back up knots which are figure of 8 loops. Don't trust the shunt so climb well within my ability.
I like overhand on a bight. I show a convenient way to tie them one-handed in the online course: blissclimbing.com/en/online-courses/
Thank you again! If you use a device with teeths like the micro traxion on the bottom and the main one, Revo above, and if the microtraxion is working only as a backup and to loop the rope, would passing the rope through the microtraxion in this configuration damage the rope?
For TRS use? If so, loading the Micro Traxion will result in "bad loading" of the Revo and will probably break the closing system of the Revo. Not an obvious problem...
I know it's hard to find a comprehensive and reliable source of information on this topic. That's why I did my research, bought equipment, experimented and adopted a way to teach rope soloing. I like to refer to my complete online courses. My reasons are the following:
-It is dangerous to have partial information about security systems
-I need an income to continue my mission to teach and innovate
I would love to help you find answers to your questions! I suggest the following solutions:
-An in-person course (blissclimbing-com.translate.goog/fr/formations/?_x_tr_sl=fr&_x_tr_tl=en)
-An online course (blissclimbing.com/en/online-courses/)
-A subscription to my Patreon (I answer on the platform) (www.patreon.com/blissclimbing)
I prefer to refer to complete courses. The courses should answer 99% of your questions and show you more things you haven't even thought of AND that are essential to being effective and safe! For any remaining questions, I answer every question asked by my clients and try to post everything on the hidden private Facebook groups reserved for buyers of online courses so that all buyers can benefit. I also very often add content to the courses because there is so much to say and teach on the subject AND I still learn quite often! You can always ask your questions on the “regular” public Facebook rope solo groups, but you won't get all correct answers and probably nothing complete. That's why my suggestion is to take the courses!! Looking forward to seeing you buy a course: you will be happy with your choice!!!
How does your back feel after all of that? 😅
It was all fine. Climbing gear is awesome at keeping you safe. (when used properly)
@@YannCamusBlissClimbing still couldn't have been enjoyable. Guess there's no way you could use a dummy for this?
@@PaulEdler I have 55kg and 80kg dummies but they are a pain to haul / drop AND they are a danger I have to manage because they could fall on me... Doing it myself was the sensible choice.
Awesome test. That must have been a torture to do.
A bit! LOL "jumping for science!"
I top-rope solo with a camp lift on top and a petzl micro traxion on bottom. I don’t bother keeping them separated because the camp lift locks upwards and the petzl micro traxion locks downwards. Is my thinking flawed? I can foresee no situation in which they would interfere with each other so long as the camp lift is on top and the petzl micro traxion is on bottom. Any insight appreciated!
Your thinking is reasonable with these devices. BUT you could damage your devices doing what you do. THEN you would be at risk using some damaged gear. That is what I can see as of today. Better separate them. What do you think?
@@YannCamusBlissClimbing True. I hadn't thought about that. Thank you!
Yes, always extend the top device. Then you can smack it up if you need to take really quick
Do you use a chest rig to keep the primary / upper device up?
I believe your backup is supposed to be on top of your descending device on a single rope. Not below.
This is not the subject here. We discuss some Top Rope Solo (TRS) setups. Rappel setups is another ballgame. Makes sense?
thank you for making this
You are welcome!!
Great video Yann, just so I understand; did you flip or lockout your CT RollNLock so that it would never engage? Why no Petzl microtraxion?! That’s the token top rope solo tool!
I locked the RnL open so it never engages. No Micro Traxion because it would not have failed in that way.
Awesome deMonstration!) This climbing safe-sheme actually fails
The disturbing thing is that this is very close to how belay devices can fail if dragged into a carabiner, by a falling climber. Pressure on the front/leading end of the device unloads the locking pivot mechanism, in the same way as a hand does when rapid-feeding rope out - not at all a safe use.
I agree! A good amount of reflex is needed from the belayer to make belay safer: the device is not foolproof… A good end on the break strand is always a good thing!!!
Thank you for sharing Yann. If all these teethless diveces failed, why have them at all? Even if they are the top device, and you have a teeth device below them, wouldnt they still fail the same way?
A lot of people like to have a no teethless device as primary to be gentle on the rope. Also some like the LOV devices to have instantly rappelable system (great by the way!!). For these reasons a teethless device on top is a great option. They usually grab fine if you take care to let them do their job (nothing hinders the system). Teeth devices can also fail by the way... Makes sense?
@@YannCamusBlissClimbing Ah I see. The teethless devices work well so long as another device isn't interfering with them. Thank you Yann.
@@jamesnemenyi welcome!
Can you please test the MadRock- safeguard as this device is not spring activated and should lock right away as opposed to the lifeguard that you tested already? Also, you should test the Singing Rock-SIR, as this device is also rated for repelling, belaying, and work positioning.
I start to have mileage on the safeguard. Good to LRS, good to rappel, not good to TRS (I did not find how to make the rope feed easily through it). If you have a SIR for me, I would love to test it!!! Thanks!
You're going to eventually throw your back out Yann, please get yourself a non-human testing rig hahah
THanks for caring!
helo is there any device will perfecly work with you test? and is backup device must only put at chest ring? not in same ring with descender
I am not sure I understand your questions. But the vast majority of devices with teeth (except the tibloc that might just ruin my rope) or the Edelrid Fuse would likely stop my fall in this test. Does that answer any part of your questions?
actualy people wrongly put progres capture device to near with descender, and when fall the device will put togeter and failing descender locking mechanism. also there one device that can still locking good with your current setup please try with gnome ice rock because the mechanism were reverse lock, different with any common descender
What about having an eye to eye hitchcord about 30" which is above the device which attaches to the carabiner that goes through the Trango-Vergo? It seems easy to control when u hold the hitch with one hand? I usually tie a Knut or Distel & the rapell lever is something u can operate with the other hand & u never open it up all the way. With a CT Quick-roll hand ascender it is the smoothest I've used in ascending.😮
Seems to me you are discussing about a rappel setup, is this correct? Or would you see the eye to eye hitchcord valdotain above the Vergo for a Top Rope Solo use? Thanks!!
@@YannCamusBlissClimbing It's for ascending in an application with a rapelling device. The tag line where people have made videos using a Madrock or Gri Gri & they put some kind of a block system on the tag end of their line. This is not what they should be doing. That is why b4 they climb that they have a figure 8 stopper knot. I can climb 20 feet effortlessly. Everyone of my climbing lines whether hunting or arborist work, SRT or MRS they all have a pulley/hitchcord configuration. I have 2 bridges on my saddle I use for 🌳 cutting. B4 I cut I have a safety climbing line to my accessory bridge to a 🌳 I'm not climbing but nearby. Then I have my climbing rope in the main 🌳. B4 I ever turn the saw on I put my linesman around the tree below the rigging ring & I have a floater on it to choke all the slack out of the system. It also allows me to move in one direction but I can't move to the side where the branch will be falling in my rigging system. A lot of gear going on so I always measure 5× & cut once.
I pay attention to my hitchcords. I use the knut, distel & Michoacan. Some cords depending on my line I go 4 or 5 wraps. My adjustable bridges r fitted with a Michoacon. My linesman too has a Michoacan. On my SRT I found that I have to go with a shorter bridge than when I MRS climb. U never get a second chance to make a good 1st impression. I'm glad u made this video cuz alot of hunters that don't climb trees many months of the year need the shock value that u showed & if that doesn't get through to them about thinking of ways to make things simpler that offers more redundancy that they r in jeopardy. Especially in the dark. Everything is risk/reward & just doing one thing like not installing the right style carabiner into their system that does not have a triple locking mechanism is life threatening. I have 2 screw gate style carabines that I have permanently attached to loops on my linesmans rope on 2 different saddles. The screw gate is screwed shut. I took a Gorilla tape patching roll which is similar to the stuff they waterproof the bottom section of roofs with. I would have to burn it off to remove it! U can never be too careful. Thanks again for your video that shows that u always need a backup in your system that isn't a stopper knot. Take care 🙂.
Good job
Thanks!
cool vidéo. as-tu fait le même test en mettant les devices sans dents au top et ceux avec des dents en bas ?
Non. Je fais surtout des tests pour découvrir les limites des systèmes. Si ça fonctionne, je grimpe dessus et je tombes souvent. Je me “teste” pas… ça fait du sens?
Hi
I dont get it quite. Why and how did you get them to not engage into catching your fall?
How many times did you watch it?
@@YannCamusBlissClimbing Aha ok ithink i get it now. So because the devices had no load on them while you did fall into the rope they did not engage in a breaking manouver.
And because they had not been at the highest point in the rope while falling there was no friction that could initiate the primary start friction that was needed to engage them.
And the Kong was in the way where they had their sweet spot where they actualy would engage.
Ok but why the hassle?
When another device is in the spot where the other should do a job the job could not been done because another tool used that space already.
Kind of interesting but dangerous...
Stay safe man stay safe!
@@fearlyenrage this kind of setup has been done!! Just want to make people think and realize teeth are needed as the bottom device! Otherwise the top device can easily cancel the bottom one. Makes sense?
@@YannCamusBlissClimbing makes sense. I had a flat devoce at my lanyard that i took out because of non function to.
So if I understand correctly, a trax at the bottom and a rollNlock on top would be fine? (Or better)
Some people think the RNL is not reliable enough. But as of today, I would agree with that. Especially with a few inches (4?) of extension for the RNL to be a bit away from the MT.
@@YannCamusBlissClimbing couls you perhaps make a clip about the downsides of the RnL? I got one for this purpose so it would be useful info to at least one person.😅
@@daanschone1548 I will make one but I will put it in the course ;-) If you buy the TRS course I will make it in a pinch. I already started editing it I believe!
@@YannCamusBlissClimbing I'm thinking about buying the LRS course.
@@daanschone1548 Please do! Thanks man! You will be so glad you did!
specifying the exact make/model/size rope would have especially been important for this video as while some of those devices ask for ranging between 8.5 mm and 11, some devices there allow a narrower range, others specifically ask for 10.5 mm static and nothing else. i know the point of the video is interference between devices and not the rope, i'm just always frustrated when it gets glossed over. isn't it almost the most important part?
Agreed!! It is an important part!! You are the first to ask LOL. It is a Petzl 9.8mm (dynamic single rope) from about 10 years ago. Very slightly used and stored in good conditions.
Question, why you still using a Ecrin Rock Helmet?
Because it has the best GoPro mount for my videos. I don’t climb with it otherwise.
Dw, I just use a single micro trax and a malion for backup. Back up knots will save me.
Not my favorite. I don’t want to take a 100 footer and don’t want to make many knots. But good for occasional use for sure!!
Can you test asap from Petzl ?
Some here: czcams.com/video/paSatLMAYQY/video.html
Just like rappelling, devices should be extended so they aren't need each other.
Not exactly the same as when on rappel, you go slow and keep control over things. During TR solo, the system has to work without any tending in all scenarios. So extension is good but teeth are also required to make the system more foolproof
@@YannCamusBlissClimbing oh I wasn't saying this is like rappelling, I just meant it's a lesson learned on rappelling that is transferable here.
How about putting the toothless device up top with an extension so they don't interfere with a chest harness/strap to keep the top one up ensuring it is the primary device to engage?
With a teeth device at the bottom? If so, you describe exactly what people usually end up doing!
I think this is more about the roll n lock failing as an upper.
I don't undertand your comment...
@@YannCamusBlissClimbing didn't the roll n' lock serve more to cause the failure by preventing the other to engage?
@@joshuabean9409 yes. But I purposefully disabled the RollNLock. It was locked open for all tests. Makes sense?
Bad for the back !
Just a matter of being used to it. Was all good really!
New attempt to reproduce... It failed😊
LOL!!! Thanks for the comment. After many hours of edit: I did not get that!!! Aha! Clearly not my mother tongue!!
I only use 1 device because of the obvious reason of having the top device mind the bottom.
Not safe. Don’t fall! What device do you use?
@@YannCamusBlissClimbing new petzl rescuecender. Nothing is safe even having a partner.
@@patc9102 i hâte this device. It is the most beautiful and grabs the worst. Seriously change your device and your setup. A friend had his Rescucender slip 2 m. He was so scared he never TRSed again.
@@YannCamusBlissClimbing i have been very happy with it in the progression I have used it. Stated slowly in my barn to learn it's behavior. Big take away is to use a quick link instead of a carabiner to make the device lock quickly.
Merci pour tes idées.
@@patc9102 Just for you. (And others that think about buying the New Rescucender...) (Version 3) czcams.com/video/NdNNWNaT754/video.html
please, we can do without the clickbaity thumbnails
Sorry but.. I cannot be too expressive for CZcams... This is the way it is.
@@YannCamusBlissClimbing hahahahaha you're being forced?
There are soooo many things wrong with this video
Sooooooo….every climbing device doesnt work for its it intended purpose according to this video?
This is not the subject. All devices tested are great for their intended purposes... But people getting into more complicated setups must be careful and get proper training.
All devices / systems have a failure mode; it’s better to be aware ; one might think an extra device adds to safety but in this case it doesn’t. My back aches just watching this.😊
Suppose someone wants to backup their roll lock or traxion with any of these devices. They might not be aware that these devices aren't suitable as a backup underneath the upper devices.