Another MiG Nerf Inbound | MiG-21Bis War Thunder
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- čas přidán 28. 06. 2024
- The MiG-21Bis is the next victim of the slew of flight model bug reports coming in, with a smaller but still substantial nerf to it's sustained performance. In this case however, the 21Bis is not really a standout of the BR.
00:00 Intro
00:50 Flight Model
03:06 Weaponry
04:56 Matchmaker
06:45 Not Fun
community.gaijin.net/issues/p...
Outro Music: • Fights On - Summer Ski...
Discord link: / discord - Hry
1:28 lee swore instant cancelled,banned
constantly shidding airspeed 🗣🔥
Whoopsie poopsie?
@@-Hari-03It was constantly SHEDDING airspeed lmao, I see how y'all thought that though
sheddin be shiddin
@@GeneralLee2000 knew what you said but i did exhale lightly
MiG-21Bis is playable spaded at 11.0, it's arguably good at 11.0 but that's fine.
In all honesty it's one of those polarizing planes that performs insanely well in a downtier but terribly in a uptier.
Once again the simple fix is decompression 😮💨
Most planes in this game perform insanely well downtiered, decently well on tier, and terribly when upjtiered. That's kinda how gaijin balances the game.
@@Jacob-sz3qq It gets way more noticeable as the BR increases
It's funny how they nerf the mig, while irl it could pull more AOA, enough to do a cobra even
AOA and doing cobras is different than sustained turn rate
Why's the dude on the forums snitching so hard 🤣
He also bug reported the F-8E now 😭
a lot of the time when a high profile "snitcher" comes out it's really just a guy from the same team which in this case is a Warthunder employee. :) US Government is infamous for this, having their own moles come to court lol. Probably sounds like bs but just watch in a few years he'll probably be ousted in the same way many US Government moles get ousted
@@GeneralLee2000where do you see this?
This guys an actual bum lol, probably works for gaijin as he’s the only one who gaijin actually pays attention to his bug reports instead of the thousands of our bug reports that would make the game more enjoyable and they ignore.
lmao
Gaijin is doing a reverse Su22M3 move, instead of making a descent vehicle OP they made an awful vehicle worse
i never found the su22 to be decent at all, not even as a CAS for its br, mf got no good HUD zoom for its missiles, and got a medium bad agility
And it can get to face 9.7 vehicles at a downteir WITH R60MKs.@@Elyron2004 I normally get 2-4 kills + a base kill.
@@Elyron2004it’s quite fun as a missile bus if you play 10.7 or lower (which is a rare case)
@@SA-ks3ex i assume AGM missiles.
the R60s are found everywhere and on far better airframes.
AGM is still lacking over the stupid low zoom of the gunner camera
I am playing the mig21bis right now and i can also say with confidence that it is the most sad plane i have flown in quite a while, simply because of the uptiers and the inability to get consistent kills with the r60ms
Meanwhile at 10.0-11.0 F5s seal clubbing everything
Which is even slower and has worse missiles, sure bro
@@ultimatechad8738 which has a lower BR and can out maneuver a bis. It takes a century for a bis to fight a F5E. By then his teammates are probably long gone. USA BR 10.0 to 11.0 has 61.7% win rate. That is on top of US almost always get mixed with everything else to fight US team. US alone at night when seal clubbers comes out is probably close to 80% WR. Do you even play the game?
@@boat5138441 1. Where are you getting these win rates statistics?
2. Have you actually ever played any of the F-5's (C, E, chinese A variant, etc.), enemies can just run away and re-engage when they even out the playing field, and yes to answer your retarded question I do play the game I have 2k hours in ARB alone
@@ultimatechad8738 yeah, sustained 11G turn at mach 0.9 with ZERO speed bleed, sure man
@@hubril7921 that's the only speed it can do shit at, go slower and you fall out the spy, go faster aaand I'll stop you right there cause your speed doesn't go further than 1.1 effectively AKA 90% of jets at the BR can outrun you
just. dont. energy. fucking. fight. F-5's. not that complicated
I feel like the F-5 is next because someone told me it was overperfomlng.
it is but it has already been rejected
They're using a russian source for their info instead of the 1984 F-5E manual so...
So what? That doesn't stop snail from nerfing the MiG-21 based on non-Soviet sources. According to the flight manual, it's already underperfomlng
@@Scorchluck this is a soviet source. They included the turn charts from the manual here 😅
a6m lmfao
that one unironically is overperforming, and the source isn't weird or obscure at all. literally every allied pilot after like, '43 was instructed to try and bait the zero into a high-speed dive, where the zero would lock up heavily and be unable to keep up with the other plane. in WT it literally doesn't do that. at all. thirteen G's like it's nothin at 600kph.
Meanwhile f16s pulling 14+ g...
On the BR decompression topic, the reason why they are not doing is absolutely not the queue times, but rather the monetization motives. War thunder is driven not by entertainment, but rather frustration. You need to be frustrated to buy that shing 50/60 dollar premium. The queue times are already beyond garbage for what the matchmaking is.
I’ll be the first to admit…I dropped an unhealthy amount on this game out of pure frustration 😂😂 I’m not proud of it, but I learned my lesson and just play this game just to play it. If at any point it pisses me off, I close the game out and move onto something else lol
I don’t think this will change too much because, with the MiG-21bis either you stomp whatever you’re dogfighting or it stomps you. For the planes that were equal to it, pilot skill can still bridge the gap. IMO
Bro really said a whole lotta nothing. How doesn’t this apply to literally any other plane
definitely. anybody who really relies on this things sustained turnrate is doin it wrong anyway. this thing is legit capable of very tight scissor fights and even PSMs if you use flaps + rudder right in a dogfight!!!
@@blessthismessss yeah!
that f16a in a downtier be like
Bruh. Su-27 flies like cringe. MiG-29 energy retention is gimped. MiG-23 is sad now, and now the MiG-21bis is going to be neutered.
Why do they keep making some of my favorite aircraft unflyable. Flying missile buses aren’t very fun, I grinded the entire Russian tech tree with the idea that they would have worse weapons but good flight performance, not the other way around. 😭
almost every aircraft over performs. The mig23 actually needed the nerf (I have almost 1k games in it so I think I have enough experience to know that) but all these other jets… if I bug report the f16 or gripen for pulling over 9g will anything happen??? This feels unfair to the 21bis and this isn’t the type of “balancing” we need.
So all these years, The mig's have been overperforming? Sad, They were amazing to fly and their flight performance compensated for their weaker weapons over the F-4 Phantoms.
Take away F-5C's flares and reduce it's rank from 7 to 6. Let's see how that flies 😮
It will still be good?
No leave it alone
That thing dont have flare attached during the Vietnam war
If you went to a hospital and said this out loud they´d bring you out back and commit you to the looney bin.
@@scaniadan2968 Then they should leave the soviet flying pencil alone as well. But they don't.
man im just glad its not the SMT getting nerfed, i love that thing. bis is kinda mid cuz of its BR anyway (not bad, just not amazing) so i barely ever fly it anyway, i guess this is just the final nail in the coffin for me wanting to play the BIS lol
yo man, long time no see, I was devastated about the 23 series nerfs, as you know i adore the 23MLA
REAL AND TRUE
Good riddance. BIS is miserable plane, playing stock Mig29 is less painful, and that with 2 R-60M`s on top tier.
goes down to 10.7? time to take the dust off the lazur
We'll see if it does lmao
if they bring it down to 10.7 so it doesn't keep getting uptiered to f16s and mig29s they can do whatever they want to the FM imo
Yeah, but the BIS shouldn't see 9.7s like Jaguar Gr.1, Harrier Gr.1, Gr.3 and AV-8A or C, T-2, stuff like those, the 21Bis shouldn't face them. Hell, the 21S could see the Bis, same for the SPS-K, if it was 10.7
@@locaog4mesyoutube612Thats the problem with all the BRs being so compressed in air, can’t move things up or down to balance them without screwing over other vehicles or BRs. We need a higher max BR and some decompression to revive certain BR ranges
@@epsilon2843 exactly, but gaijin refuses to cause queue times apparently, when its because they make money off the F-5C, MiG-23ML, so on
@@locaog4mesyoutube612Bis facing 9.7 is closer to balanced than bis facing 12.0
@@locaog4mesyoutube612 It's wild, I think most people wouldn't mind a slightly longer queue if it meant more balanced and enjoyable matches, but Gaijin seems to think the opposite I guess
Yeah, but... Russian Bias, right?
I can only wish that the insanely busted FMs many Western planes will get nerfed, but until then I will keep pulling 13-15G in the F-15A while barely losing speed all at 12.3 because that's realistic lmao
Hell after 2 separate turn rate nerfs the JAS-39 is still slightly overperforming in that aspect.
IRL the F15 is build for max 7G maneuver
imo every single plane in WT is so over performing the only reason the F-16 on release 'sucked'(lmfao) was because it was semi-resembling of its real life accuracy
@hubril7921 no, russian planes in WT are underperforming. Many planes have less thrust and less maneuverbility than in reality
@@bastikolaski8111sure in some areas they are, but you can't tell me floggers can hold for more than 3 seconds of 12G turns, or pretty much any rank 7~8 jet for that matter
Well the F4E never carried the AIM7`S irl so i guess they should also bug report that and put it at 10.3 just an opnion
Hey Lee thank you for bringing the match maker issue. Lately I seem to run into this issue more often. The most aggravating encounter I had was queueing 11.3 Soviet with a buddy and we had only 12.0 on our team while the other team gets 4 12.3, needless to say it went poorly for us.
The Микоян-Гуревич 21 is getting nerfed?
Indeed
Sadge
i am going to cry
Have some tissues ready 😭
@@GeneralLee2000 i wanted to get the mig 23 ml now i aint getting anything
@@GeneralLee2000 question: what about the german migs? Are they getting nerfed too?
@@Tizanikgoesboom322 EVERY MiG-23 is getting nerfed.
@@ML_Tachanka my poor mig 23 mla :')
6:15 The guy eating two of his own teammate's missiles
10.7 MIG-21 BIS. And that will then have the ramifications for some 9.7 aircraft that will have to deal with that bullshit.
At the rate Gaijin is lowering the BR's I'm just waiting to meet an MiG21 in a P51 Mustang...
The real problem is 16 v 16
I remember when mig21bis was first added and it was clapping phantoms like no tomorrow
Convert to simulator air battles 😉… it makes so many aircraft fun to use and the changing br brackets mean there are multiple days during the week in which you cannot see higher BR’s.
Air sim is the only fun game mode for top tier and you can’t change my mind.
It requires brain power
Morris importantly, it requires patience.
Honestly, top tier air sim is still a complete dumpster fire, if less of one than RB. Everything 11.3 and below though, is *way* better than RB, not even close. Top tier could be pretty good too if the maps were bigger. Like 300-500km in size.
I find it funny you brought up the even matchmaking at the end there cuz I no cap had a game a couple weeks ago while stock grinding my Mirage 2KC-S4 where I was top tier with a team full of F-4S and MiG-23's... against a team with a MiG-29, some F-14's, an F-16, and the best part: Some F-15's. That is one of the most infuriating games I have ever played. The most nonsensical matchmaking I have ever seen in this game. My team having a max BR of 11.7 (One plane at that, me) vs a team that has up to 12.3. What sense does that make.
that's exactly my point. They'll probably never do it because it would extend queue times but oh well
They better not touch my mig 21's!! They are the rea I play this game
we used to rule the world.....
Trve..m
Good times with 70% winrate on release 🥺
The Mig21Bis is a miserable plane to fly. You're always facing stuff way leagues better than you, your R60's refuse to ever function, and it makes no sense why the Lazur model gets to be at 10.7 when you're forced to be at 11.0+
10.7?? My Lazur is at 11.0
I AM SO PISSED THE BIS WAS MY FAV JET TO USE BRO WHO THE FUCK SNITCHIN?
1 of ur youtube member in the intro is on my friends list lmao
So now I'm going to get uptiered into matches full of f14 and not be as maneuverable against missiles launched across the map. So glad i chose Germany to grind
4:36 from the limited testing i did it doesnt, even though the r60m has a bigger fov it wont go for flares as easily or will reaquire the plane unlike the r13 which was defeated the moment it saw one flare against an afterburning f16
yeah the rangebands are better on the R-60M, could help in some situations
I recently spaded the German bis during the the start of the air event and I really enjoyed ( I also preferred carrying 1 R-13M and 5 R60Ms) and apparently the MiG 21s are underperforming according to there flight manuals and what not so I don’t really understand this nerf. Also there is nothing wrong with the F-4J(uk), I will be taking this slander…the aircraft is perfectly capable and enjoyable.
They included pictures of the turn charts from the manual in the bug report... that's the source lol
@@GeneralLee2000 oh fr? What about actual flight manuals for evidence. (can’t remember the name, my bad) and not just whatever has been sent on the forums? Just curious.
@@No1harris_98 those manauls were for the MF which is underpreforming
@@a.e.richardson218 oh really, my bad didn’t know it was for a specific variant, but I couldn’t really remember either way. But is there actually nothing the we know off for the Bis? Any declassified stuff?
Gaijin is NOT alergic to decompression due to "que times" but because they use frustration(bad tech tree vehicles/slower reserch) as a mean to sell premium vehicles.
If people have fun grinding they will probably buy less premium vehicles..
Did they nerf the radar and the F4J or the missile because the AIM-7F on my F4j misses like 4 out of 6 times it’s very bad now idk what happened to it?
Been running aim7e2 on F4J instead, way more reliable under 8km
It feels like its missing a lot more now too... maybe the chaff buff did something?
It´s the same with the AIM 7 F on the F4S… it´s way worse now then it was a few months ago
What we really need, that would help the compression issue, is just shrink the acceptable BR range in the matchmaker.
Instead of 11.0 being able to face 10-12.0, or +-3 BR’s, make it +-2 BR’s, so a 11.0 jet would only face a 10.3-11.7 plane.
Bam… decompression. With little impact on que time.
Bro invented br brackets
I actually had a decent time spading my Finish Mig-21 Bis against 4th gens. Sure you are at a disadvantage, but just pick your targets and you'll do well enough. 6 missiles is enough to get at least 1 kill per game.
29 nerf, 23 nerf, 21 nerf, t90m 7.1 reload
russian bias...
So many commenters here are dumb, the discrepancies in aoa performance for many planes is because of fllying with instructor enabled. If you turn it off, you'll pull harder but lose all speed, like, for example, the SU27 irl and in the game.
Nerfing a jet that’s already underperforming? Ain’t that funny, what’s next? YaK-141?
where did you hear it was underperforming?
the guy making these bug reports is actually a guy who hates fun
OMG LEE SWORE NO WAY
That made me laugh quite a bit
I didn't swear though...
@@GeneralLee2000 I know I know, playing it up because it's funny to hear it from someone who's usually super chill
@@weltall7283 hahaha, I should have chosed a better word than shedding 😭
Real question, when we getting the su 9?
bruh, im suffering in the mig-21bis already
I think it will also get a 10.7 ARB reduction
Gaijin when you produce a well thought out, evidence based, logical argument against BR compression: bUT tHe StaTIStiCs!!!11!!! ;-; ;-; ;-; ;-;
Realistic and SIM should share the migrating Battle ratings.
These are better for Gameplay in the long run. More realistic FM will help the "Ace Combat" Gameplay that is becoming a problem.
Oh no... Wait NO NO my j7e :( is it gonna be effected?
Shouldn't be, it's not a bis and has a different wing design
@@GeneralLee2000 ah man... i hope... cuz i wanna unlock that thing asap :(
Gaijin logic (too much skill issue usamain cry on the forum): any russian thing need massiva nerf and all usa vehicle need overbuff
Cope and seethe sputnik.
@@casematecardinal Let's see you say that if they nerf US planes. Then you's need 3 rolls of tissues to wipe the tears and you'd lose your voice because of how many times you'll cry russian bias when your favourite nation gets its toys nerfed.
@@casematecardinalyou're mad he's right haha
@@alexmaximus9134 I won’t be surprised if they nerf YaK-141 instead and buff US planes further.
What happens when USA has the most premium players out of all the nations 😒
is the mig21mf also getting nerferd? hpefully not uz itrs my altime fav vehicle
Mig-21 at 4:00 "and?"
just delete all migs at this point
So is it even worth getting the lazur m to grind the germsn tech tree? I hate the look of the tornado
Personally I would still rather get it than the Tornado, but I would wait and see what they do with it.
G91 R/4 is still the best value premium for Germany IMO. You just can’t grind the very highest tiers with it.
No, just grind the tree without a premium. You'll actually get better that way rather than skipping. I'm soooooo glad I didn't by the lazur in December. Patience saved me money and I still got to top tier
@@TeamValkyrie2023 Yeah grinding normally or with a premium account is way more valuable than premium vehicles imo.
Grinding the German air tree as my 3rd tree to complete, love the Lazur M , after completing two other full air trees, yeah nah, I just go back an spade the aircraft I like or I’ll put a talisman on something at a lower BR if I really like it
Are all mig 21s getting this nerf??
Thing started as UFO and now years and years later, its finally getting realistic FM? madness ...
Perhaps people need to learn to fight delta wings instead of crying about them getting stomped because they play into their strengths
It’s actually worse than it was irl, at least according to the flight manual
It's no UFO lol, that's the Kfirs and Mirage 2000s.
@@lfraser7128 it is, pulls less AOA than it should.
@@lfraser7128 how so.
Wassup lee?
Ughhhh really?!
Yes really lmao
those R-60Ms are disgusting
Soviet pilots did not like it after the bigger tanks and engine and called it hunchback due to shitty maneuverability and flight characteristics
Maybe they should put the ayit at 9.7 instead
Nevermind please don't is so fun😂
Now do the f4s
But gaijin didin't say nothing
They're no nerfing like half the rank 7 prems. Theres no way this isnt intentional to sell you 75 dollar rank 8 prems coming in the next patch lol. This game deserves another reviewbomb with the shit the devs are pulling...
2:15 can someone transcribe whats said here? sounded like a bunch of gibberish
SOMEONE SILENCE THAT MAN ALREADY
Hopefully they decrease the br in that case. Not my belived mig 21 😭😭😭😭
ill say it for the people in the back aka Gaijin. WE DONT CARE ABOUT QUE TIMES AS LONG AS YOU FIX COMPRESSION!!
I say nerf the F-5 along with the 21/23 and move up the 12.0 BRs to 12.3, so only the F-5E FCU faces any F-16s. But also move up the the F-5E to 11.0 along with the Bis, but give it the Aim-9P4. Should slightly prevent 9.7 and help 11.0 both from facing hell in full uptiers. Probably not the best solution, but just an idea.
Great vid Lee,
but also up the top br bracket to 15.0 and decompress from there instead
@@a.e.richardson218 15.0 is a bit excessive, with the introduction of ARH I could see potentially 14.0 however
they need to redo the WHOLE BR system, it's so whack, why the hell is it even going up in .4 / .3 increments anyway? am I missing something?
If its realistic to real life then I'm fine with it.
Why do they still have Rank does not matter say '1-2 BR higher' and why still have the Skill matters(2-5 BR higher) and God Mode!(5+ BR higher) achievements if you can't face anyone more than 1 BR higher than you?
.....
I just realized.. It's to encourage people to squad up and take low BR vehicles into higher BR matches..
@@RedTail1-1 I WILL keep farming godmode you cannot stop me
or to uptier their lowtier tanks
21SMT enjoyers stay winning
Interestingly I've actually seen my R60Ms defeating flares much more often than my 9Ls. I think its because the wider seeker let's the r60 reaquire the plane after passing through the flares.
its much more you're firing 9l's at colder planes, the 60m does have worse flare resistance and range
@@a.e.richardson218 ahh, but they're not ignoring the flares. They're going through them and reacquiring the enemy plane on the other side. Something they'd be much better at because their seeker can see much more.
Watch them add a new 21 (wasnt there a 21-93? Or is that the 23-93?)
MiG-21 Bison for the UK got leaked 🤣
@@GeneralLee2000 the brits did what to a MiG????
@viperz3r016 probably from India
They should give China the rest of the J7s
@@viperz3r016 indian, it get R-73, R-27 and R-77
One dude single-handedly destroying whole soviet top tier😂😂😂
He's coming for the US next
@@GeneralLee2000 I do hope so, F-15's radar need to be fixed for half a year now
@@user-xj1cs4sf1e He's put up a nerf suggestion for the F-8 series
@@starliner2498 fair enough I guess
yeah its funny all 11.0 mig21's are uber trash but if they went to 10.7 they would be equally as op - absolutely need more decompression
Chill people it's 0.2G
Poor Donut
Me waiting for Gaijin to change more stuff after he makes a video
@@GeneralLee2000me when donut drops the f-4 video and gaijin proceeds to add 3 phantoms with fox 3s
the mig-21bis is very enjoyable as an ambush fighter
the long flank is always worth it
and also i will never understand why youtubers have such a hatred for the f-4jUK its not a bad aircraft at all
makes me think all youtubers just have some bias toward it because every youtuber says it, or its some form of being spoiled, no clue
Every single mig nerf is a good nerf. except all this means is an even more broken one os about to be added.
Lmao let’s see gaijin nerf US planes. Oh no everyone is balling their eyes out because the average US main is shit.
@@lazer2238 Thats they dont get nerfed, pilots do it for them
@@lazer2238 yep. Us mains are whiny cry babies
@@lazer2238 TBF the Crusaders might be next on the chopping block.
I mean we’ll still keep clubbing US premium fodder players regardless so
Why the mig 21 and 37 bruh they were fine.
Nerf the damn top tier russian death sticks
"Its getting worse"... we know. In fact, if you were involved in the economics of the game, youd have an idea of how bad it already is.
Hallo Sebastian
Hallo Clemens
what the sigma
Give the J7D&E all aspect missles!!!
Its funny cause in real life the. Mig 21 flew against the f15
We need a real boycott that may shut down the game where "nobody wins". This game needs to be trashed or fixed
it's a shame how all of that is happening just because of some pissy babies crying about russian bias in forums
Those are the same type of people who take the P-47 at low altitude and try to dogfight a Yak-3. Then complain about russian bias.
reduse the g's but increase aoa
Lol I love the part at about 615 where you start talking about balance and the match maker. Its SOOOO busted right now. You talk about 11s to 12s but about the rest of it. It's so much fun in a 10.7 getting a full up tier to 11.7 and you only find out that its 11.7 when you merge because your team has no 11.7s but the enemy team has 4 F14s. How does this work? Super easy. Gaijin doesn't care. The fact that I can get a 11.7 match and not have a single 11.7 on my team because the match maker put the 3 nations with a 11.7 on 1 team and the rest on another. How about having a 11.7 match in a 10.7 where your team doesn't have a single radar missile yet the enemy team is full F4s and F14s. EVERY ASPECT of the match maker is crap, and the 1.0 BR swing only makes it worse. The game is about to get WAY worse than it currently is int he next few months and they will do nothing to try and help it out because Gaijin still thinks they know what's best for the game and community.
If you're reading this ur hot 🥵🥵
Gaijn trying to hide Russian bias
Russian bias by nerfing russian planes. Ah yes, very intelligent statement there.
@@alexmaximus9134 trying to hide it by nerfing the op planes. Ah yes a very intelligent statement here
@@Voxelgt LMAO calling the mig21bis op is insane
@@amari2509 the op planes in general for example all the mig 23mls
Yeah just put the bullshit tomcats at 12.0 and 12.3 already, so tired of fighting half a dozen of this skilless plane in my MiG-21 every uptier.
Oh and still no F-16 FM nerf, because can't make US mains upset i guess. MiG-23, the nerf was understandable, but now it's just bullshit, the only thing the 21s have are their flight performances. What's next, nerfing the MiG-29s and Su-27, so the phantoms can dogfight them ? For fucks sake.
Tankie angrie
Tomcat aren't the best, they're a mix of both dogfighting and BVR, More so on the BVR side they're fine at 12.0 your migger 21 should go down to 10.7 counters the f5e and shit
Womp womp someone call the waahmbulence for crybaby Jones over here lmfao players like you are so short sighted for what you think deserves what when almost every plane is lacking and deserves a proper rework but sure make it a player base issue instead of blaming the company that put us in this position
"Skilless plane" oh im sorrrry, didnt know the AIM 9L / 9H plane that many times fights Su27s, F15A / Js, Gripens, F16Cs with a arguably worse flight preformance and IR missiles that eat flares instantly is so skilless
Can’t nerf something that brings the most money
12th
At last ?