Really good plan that clearly explains what all this disruption has been for. I think you’re going to struggle to fund things like east west link and fourth main with National in power, they’re all about turning the dial backwards.
@@jtonline99 isn't there a big issue with the swamp and other things. I know they put fill from the CRL in it to widen it. But they won't care as long as Winston is happy and his pet projects are done.
and what good does that do for the Mangere suburbs, which would generate more passenger traffic than the airport especially with transit-oriented development? if heavy rail to the airport is what you want then it should be extended from Onehunga. There are already plans to build a busway/trackless tram from the Airport to Manukau and then on to Botany. Not practical to build that as heavy rail since Manukau station was poorly designed, and Te Irirangi Dr was designed with light rail or busway median in mind, cutting a heavy rail trench or tunnel through those poorly-laid out suburbs would be prohibitively expensive.
Same thing for Wellington and Christchurch. I personally prefer that Kiwirail extend the electrification system on th North Auckland Line from Swanson to Whangarei, so their Auckiand Transport AM class EMU fleet can run futher north, extend Wellington's metro electrification to Masteron and Palmerston North, and electrify some of the routes in the South Island, and extend the Weka Pass line from Waipara to Spring Creek in Blenheim through Nelson linking up together, and establish a new passenger service for commuters traveling between Nelson and Christhurch.
I don’t mean to be rude. But that is utterly unrealistic. And frankly; it’s the sort of fantasy that leads to NO real progress being made on improving NZ railways. There is no current passenger service between Auckland and Whangarei. Because there is little current demand for such a service. Especially given that the rail transit time is uncompetitive with driving or taking a coach. Why on earth would anyone want to sit on an uncomfortable Auckland AM EMU which is designed for travelling in within Auckland all the way to whangarei?! And electrification is very expensive to install and expensive to keep maintained. Honestly; you’ve got it all backwards and are trying to run before you can walk. How about first worry about a commuter service into Auckland from Helensville and then Warkworth and the slow improvements to the corridor and using diesel traction before even thinking about a service to Whangarei let alone with electric traction?
Surely this extra capacity would allow for a heavy rail to airport as a secondary version of the Southern line without the stops further south ? Maybe one express service direct to the CBD and Newmarket.
The trouble with Manukau to Airport is that, if you're redirecting some Southern trains to the airport, then that means fewer trains available for everybody further south. Or if you add entirely new trains to avoid having to redirect any, then you need to add extra rail capacity further north - from Westfield to city centre - to have space for the extra trains. Also (compared to the Onehunga plan) it just has less benefit. Manukau to Airport means that you ONLY get an Airport station. Onehunga to Airport means you get the airport itself, plus the airport industrial zone to the north, plus the Mangere area which is currently neglected and desperately needs transport investment. In theory you could just do both, for the best of both worlds. Create an Onehunga-Airport-Manukau rail loop. But I don't think the extra cost would be worth it. Of course, whichever direction you plan to build it, you should still build it in a sensible way. You shouldn't (for example) build it as light rail - designed to be a cheap easy mode - and then put it inside a super expensive tunnel the whole way through the isthmus. Just a wild hypothetical that I'm sure wouldn't actually come up.
@@Nalehwfrom what i know, NZTA buggered any chance of a heavy rail Onehunga Line extension being cheap and easy when they widened the Southwestern Motorway. Instead of an at-grade designation beside the motorway, any mass transit would have to be elevated on a viaduct before tunnelling under/looping around the future runway to get to the airport terminal. there's an NZTA report out there that gives estimated costs per km for light rail and heavy rail, and i did some calculations based on that. Heavy rail from Onehunga to the Airport would cost something close to $6 billion, with an additional $1-2 billion to upgrade the Onehunga branch line. And that would likely be on top of the cost of the Avondale-Southdown line. The advantage of light rail, running on the surface, was supposed to be that it would cost less than half; maybe even a third of that. So $8 billion, theoretically, would be able to cover light rail down Dominion Rd then to the Airport, and along Great North Rd and the Northwestern Motorway to Westgate. Slower, but covers more of the city. of course Labour buggered it too fixating on speed and appeasing to the villa belt NIMBYs; though i do wonder if we should have accepted the canada backed Superfund proposal to build driverless light metro back in 2018
@@Nalehw Auckland has more EMU’s than it actually needs. Especially once the tunnel is completed and through-running will be possible. I personally don’t think that rail to the airport is any big priority. Auckland airport isn’t that busy. However when they do it; it would make sense to have it a direct express, in which case a spur from Puhinui/Wiri makes sense. Such a spur could also be useful for airport express services to/from Hamilton and Tauranga. But personally; I think that the money should be invested in extending (and double-tracking & grade separating) the Onehunga branch across to Mangere. But not then to the airport, but to Manukau. Because that’s where a lot of Mangere will want to commute to. And then to extend the line through the currently pretty crappy Manukau town centre in a trench, under the motorway and into East Tamaki. In my opinion; that would not only provide transit links for a lot of South Auckland, but could also allow much of the industry/manufacturing in east Tamaki to use the rail network. And of course; they should also invest money in making all of the stations able to take 9-car trains and grade separating more of the western line.
You do realise that the previous govt had 6 years in power and started more road projects then they did any other form of transport, during that 6 years failed to start Auckland Light Rail or the Lets Get Wellington Moving project. the last govt did absolutely zero for public transport. All the major public transport projects that happened were started by the previous govt.
@@MasterChief37 not absolutely nothing, but a lot of enabling projects, e.g. we got electrification to Pukekohe and 3 new railway stations, the third main, longer CRL platforms, Te Huia, the network rebuild (while not sexy, sounded like it was long overdue). Pretty sure Puhinui and the airport busway was a Labour thing too. Not as much as I wanted, and too much focus on planning gold plated projects rather than incremental improvements, however Auckland is starting from a pretty dire PT base.
@@jtonline99 almost all those projects you mentioned were already planned before Jacinda won, they just ticked them off. I wouldn’t call TeHuia a success. The number of frequencies between our largest and 4th largest cities are pathetic.
@@MasterChief37 not true. And the ones that were planned were not funded. The importance of Te Huia is it seeded the infrastructure. To get greater frequencies you don’t need to build any new stations or rolling stock, etc… we just need to demonstrate the demand is there. That’s likely to go to custard with Simeon in charge of transport now
Greater connections by rail, but not by road. Roadways are to be taxed at certain times of day and a great deal of parking removed from the inner-city.
Good - as it should be. Reducing congestion, improving the public realm, lowering GHG emissions, cleaning the air, reducing road fatalities. What's not to love?
@@kyletopfer7818 Yes, those points you listed are indeed positive, however all Queen street businesses voted against having vehicle access to the city slowly removed and yet were ignored.
@@acegikmoii NZ has never had a truly world-class rail system before, when City Rail Link opens it will blow people's minds. Many studies show businesses constantly overestimate how many of their customers and/or potential customers arrive by car and underestimate how many arrive by public transport and on foot or bike. There is almost no evidence to show the impacts will be negative, it will require some adjustments for deliveries and many people will have to leave the Mercedes at home or at the station. Businesses in Auckland also don't understand that by having such poor public transport and public space dominated by roads, they are losing the best talent to other cities in the region that have better quality of life. Everyone is scared of change, within a few months of CRL opening and a much-improved public realm there will be access to new areas and time savings people will scarcely believe. Right now the entire Auckland rail system can only move 15,000 people per hour per direction at the busiest times - less than some bus routes; when CRL is done and with some other associated infrastructure improvements, not only will the Auckland rail system be able to move over 50,000 people per hour per direction - more than 3 times as many as currently - with trains every 2.5 minutes. More than that though, travel times to the main areas of the CBD will be reduced by 20-40% with brand new world-class stations. It will be game-changing.
@@acegikmoii there is no way vehicle access to queen st would scale to cater to the demand. Most people park in parking buildings anyway, not the side of the road. Voted against YES, in tune with reality NO.
Just dont ket Kiwirail run in, so we can actually have proper offpeak frequencies and infrastructure that doesnt require emergency shutdown due to incompetent maintenance
How about rail from puhinui Rd to the airport, seem as they can rip a shit load of houses out for the Eastern busway how come they cant do it there, and nevermind this light rail rubbish. That would take care of commuter and freight.
Because that would be an awful decision. The rail corridor after puhinui station is already reaching capacity with the future increase of passanger services and existing freight, plus Te huia. Building another rail line to the airport precinct might congest that corridor and lead to complicated routing. And demolishing houses to accommodate an already troubling plan isn't going to sell well, It isn't a cost effective plan. What's wrong with light rail, the route chosen was stupid but light rail isn't rubbish.
Really good plan that clearly explains what all this disruption has been for. I think you’re going to struggle to fund things like east west link and fourth main with National in power, they’re all about turning the dial backwards.
Winston loves choochoos
@@InSiMayb true. I think he’s leveraged himself elsewhere tho
@@jtonline99 who knows if it is part of the infrastructure fund, at least some of what is in the video. The north port line?
@@InSiMayb need to expand the passenger network too though. Auckland workers living in Waikato are in dire need of better transport solutions.
@@jtonline99 isn't there a big issue with the swamp and other things. I know they put fill from the CRL in it to widen it. But they won't care as long as Winston is happy and his pet projects are done.
Thirty years this needs to happen in ten!
Why not link Manukau to the airport??? Its a much better idea than the tram to airport.
and what good does that do for the Mangere suburbs, which would generate more passenger traffic than the airport especially with transit-oriented development?
if heavy rail to the airport is what you want then it should be extended from Onehunga.
There are already plans to build a busway/trackless tram from the Airport to Manukau and then on to Botany. Not practical to build that as heavy rail since Manukau station was poorly designed, and Te Irirangi Dr was designed with light rail or busway median in mind, cutting a heavy rail trench or tunnel through those poorly-laid out suburbs would be prohibitively expensive.
Same thing for Wellington and Christchurch. I personally prefer that Kiwirail extend the electrification system on th North Auckland Line from Swanson to Whangarei, so their Auckiand Transport AM class EMU fleet can run futher north, extend Wellington's metro electrification to Masteron and Palmerston North, and electrify some of the routes in the South Island, and extend the Weka Pass line from Waipara to Spring Creek in Blenheim through Nelson linking up together, and establish a new passenger service for commuters traveling between Nelson and Christhurch.
I don’t mean to be rude. But that is utterly unrealistic. And frankly; it’s the sort of fantasy that leads to NO real progress being made on improving NZ railways.
There is no current passenger service between Auckland and Whangarei. Because there is little current demand for such a service. Especially given that the rail transit time is uncompetitive with driving or taking a coach. Why on earth would anyone want to sit on an uncomfortable Auckland AM EMU which is designed for travelling in within Auckland all the way to whangarei?! And electrification is very expensive to install and expensive to keep maintained. Honestly; you’ve got it all backwards and are trying to run before you can walk.
How about first worry about a commuter service into Auckland from Helensville and then Warkworth and the slow improvements to the corridor and using diesel traction before even thinking about a service to Whangarei let alone with electric traction?
The Manukau to Airport extension needs to happen. Much faster and higher capacity than a tram
Surely this extra capacity would allow for a heavy rail to airport as a secondary version of the Southern line without the stops further south ? Maybe one express service direct to the CBD and Newmarket.
Manukau to airport is a no-brainer
The trouble with Manukau to Airport is that, if you're redirecting some Southern trains to the airport, then that means fewer trains available for everybody further south. Or if you add entirely new trains to avoid having to redirect any, then you need to add extra rail capacity further north - from Westfield to city centre - to have space for the extra trains.
Also (compared to the Onehunga plan) it just has less benefit. Manukau to Airport means that you ONLY get an Airport station. Onehunga to Airport means you get the airport itself, plus the airport industrial zone to the north, plus the Mangere area which is currently neglected and desperately needs transport investment.
In theory you could just do both, for the best of both worlds. Create an Onehunga-Airport-Manukau rail loop. But I don't think the extra cost would be worth it.
Of course, whichever direction you plan to build it, you should still build it in a sensible way. You shouldn't (for example) build it as light rail - designed to be a cheap easy mode - and then put it inside a super expensive tunnel the whole way through the isthmus. Just a wild hypothetical that I'm sure wouldn't actually come up.
@@Nalehwfrom what i know, NZTA buggered any chance of a heavy rail Onehunga Line extension being cheap and easy when they widened the Southwestern Motorway. Instead of an at-grade designation beside the motorway, any mass transit would have to be elevated on a viaduct before tunnelling under/looping around the future runway to get to the airport terminal.
there's an NZTA report out there that gives estimated costs per km for light rail and heavy rail, and i did some calculations based on that.
Heavy rail from Onehunga to the Airport would cost something close to $6 billion, with an additional $1-2 billion to upgrade the Onehunga branch line. And that would likely be on top of the cost of the Avondale-Southdown line.
The advantage of light rail, running on the surface, was supposed to be that it would cost less than half; maybe even a third of that. So $8 billion, theoretically, would be able to cover light rail down Dominion Rd then to the Airport, and along Great North Rd and the Northwestern Motorway to Westgate. Slower, but covers more of the city.
of course Labour buggered it too fixating on speed and appeasing to the villa belt NIMBYs; though i do wonder if we should have accepted the canada backed Superfund proposal to build driverless light metro back in 2018
@@Nalehw Auckland has more EMU’s than it actually needs. Especially once the tunnel is completed and through-running will be possible.
I personally don’t think that rail to the airport is any big priority. Auckland airport isn’t that busy. However when they do it; it would make sense to have it a direct express, in which case a spur from Puhinui/Wiri makes sense. Such a spur could also be useful for airport express services to/from Hamilton and Tauranga.
But personally; I think that the money should be invested in extending (and double-tracking & grade separating) the Onehunga branch across to Mangere. But not then to the airport, but to Manukau. Because that’s where a lot of Mangere will want to commute to. And then to extend the line through the currently pretty crappy Manukau town centre in a trench, under the motorway and into East Tamaki. In my opinion; that would not only provide transit links for a lot of South Auckland, but could also allow much of the industry/manufacturing in east Tamaki to use the rail network.
And of course; they should also invest money in making all of the stations able to take 9-car trains and grade separating more of the western line.
Save rail in Taranaki
I never heard it was endangered.
Its a plan......but where will the money to do it come from?? The Nats wont like this because it doesnt include MORE roads!
Taxes. As it should be.
You do realise that the previous govt had 6 years in power and started more road projects then they did any other form of transport, during that 6 years failed to start Auckland Light Rail or the Lets Get Wellington Moving project. the last govt did absolutely zero for public transport. All the major public transport projects that happened were started by the previous govt.
@@MasterChief37 not absolutely nothing, but a lot of enabling projects, e.g. we got electrification to Pukekohe and 3 new railway stations, the third main, longer CRL platforms, Te Huia, the network rebuild (while not sexy, sounded like it was long overdue). Pretty sure Puhinui and the airport busway was a Labour thing too. Not as much as I wanted, and too much focus on planning gold plated projects rather than incremental improvements, however Auckland is starting from a pretty dire PT base.
@@jtonline99 almost all those projects you mentioned were already planned before Jacinda won, they just ticked them off.
I wouldn’t call TeHuia a success. The number of frequencies between our largest and 4th largest cities are pathetic.
@@MasterChief37 not true. And the ones that were planned were not funded.
The importance of Te Huia is it seeded the infrastructure. To get greater frequencies you don’t need to build any new stations or rolling stock, etc… we just need to demonstrate the demand is there.
That’s likely to go to custard with Simeon in charge of transport now
Does the Avondale Westfield line also allow for passenger trains of is it freight only?
Why would halo 4 cover art master chief pfp want to know that, go save your AI wifu who’s dying from rampancy
@@awhesian the spaceships fucked I need to catch a train.
@@MasterChief37 hahaha
plan is to run a suburban train every 15 minutes each way between Henderson and Glen Innes using it... but not until 2051
30 years???
Does this mean that Auckland might get the 4car hybrids Wellington is geting?
Why does Auckland need hybrid trains when it already has electrical.
@@rp7784 for regional services to Hamilton and Tauranga, not for the suburban services
@@mattbear4802Ah, probably not until demand increases, there would need to be upgrades to the existing rail corridors and stations.
North Shore - East Tāmaki - Airport heavy rail link please!!! 😭😭
Greater connections by rail, but not by road. Roadways are to be taxed at certain times of day and a great deal of parking removed from the inner-city.
Good - as it should be. Reducing congestion, improving the public realm, lowering GHG emissions, cleaning the air, reducing road fatalities. What's not to love?
Driving has a lot of externalities it’s fair.
@@kyletopfer7818 Yes, those points you listed are indeed positive, however all Queen street businesses voted against having vehicle access to the city slowly removed and yet were ignored.
@@acegikmoii NZ has never had a truly world-class rail system before, when City Rail Link opens it will blow people's minds.
Many studies show businesses constantly overestimate how many of their customers and/or potential customers arrive by car and underestimate how many arrive by public transport and on foot or bike. There is almost no evidence to show the impacts will be negative, it will require some adjustments for deliveries and many people will have to leave the Mercedes at home or at the station. Businesses in Auckland also don't understand that by having such poor public transport and public space dominated by roads, they are losing the best talent to other cities in the region that have better quality of life. Everyone is scared of change, within a few months of CRL opening and a much-improved public realm there will be access to new areas and time savings people will scarcely believe.
Right now the entire Auckland rail system can only move 15,000 people per hour per direction at the busiest times - less than some bus routes; when CRL is done and with some other associated infrastructure improvements, not only will the Auckland rail system be able to move over 50,000 people per hour per direction - more than 3 times as many as currently - with trains every 2.5 minutes. More than that though, travel times to the main areas of the CBD will be reduced by 20-40% with brand new world-class stations. It will be game-changing.
@@acegikmoii there is no way vehicle access to queen st would scale to cater to the demand. Most people park in parking buildings anyway, not the side of the road. Voted against YES, in tune with reality NO.
Just dont ket Kiwirail run in, so we can actually have proper offpeak frequencies and infrastructure that doesnt require emergency shutdown due to incompetent maintenance
How about rail from puhinui Rd to the airport, seem as they can rip a shit load of houses out for the Eastern busway how come they cant do it there, and nevermind this light rail rubbish. That would take care of commuter and freight.
Because that would be an awful decision.
The rail corridor after puhinui station is already reaching capacity with the future increase of passanger services and existing freight, plus Te huia.
Building another rail line to the airport precinct might congest that corridor and lead to complicated routing.
And demolishing houses to accommodate an already troubling plan isn't going to sell well, It isn't a cost effective plan.
What's wrong with light rail, the route chosen was stupid but light rail isn't rubbish.