Silent Hill 2 Analysis | there was a HOLE here. its gone now
Vložit
- čas přidán 5. 09. 2024
- #silenthill #sh2 #silenthill2 #silenthillanalysis
What does the Hole quote in Silent Hill 2 mean?
CZcams CHANNELS
book channel: / @thegaymingmuse3496
stream archive: / @thegamingmusearchives...
SUPPORT
ko-fi.com/theg...
/ thegamingmuse
SOCIAL MEDIA
twitter: / the_gaming_muse
discord: / discord
There was a COMMENT here. It's gone now.
Well... I can see the comment. So you are wrong.
Its still here a month later
no its not
🤣🤣🤣
Ay!
It was actually just the guy being disappointed they fixed the glory hole in the bar
that would be in the bathroom.
@@drswag0076 well sure, but if you paint it on the wall, nobody has to make a shady walk to the bathroom and then leave embarrassed
Truly a horror experience
What kind of sad person would get rid of a glory hole?
@@GanymedeBoy Exactly the kind who lives in Silent Hill
I always took it as a vague memento left by someone else moving through their own purgatory of Silent Hill. You get hints in 2 and 4 that James is only one of numerous travelers whom the town has tested, and those prior travelers left notes and clues on their journey. This fits especially with the prior tenant’s notes in 4, which Henry uses to move forward. The “hole” itself is even a direct link to 4, wherein holes appear and vanish as portals to the other world, and it’s implied that Henry isn’t the first to experience the holes either.
I love that
Does it mention if Walter knew about the holes?
Silent Hill 2 is almost a spin off of the series considering it's a more psychological horror take on the town rather than it being a product of a malicious cult like in nearly every other game. I don't know if I agree that there were others who experienced the town in this altered state with no cult shenanigans.
@@Chainsawwed I have always thought that maybe Silent Hill 2 is Alessa's essence leaving .
Amandaishere.jpg
Sweet Amanda, in the Lake
Wonder how much She can take
Cut Her finger, take her ring
Bruise her up, black as sin
Shoot Her down, blind her eye
Bury Her in the night.
See the arms, shake in fear
Here She is, Amanda is here.
Once upon a time a woman named Amanda married a therapist. A patient of this therapist was obsessed with him and jealous of Amanda, so She kidnapped her, took her to Sorren Lake, near Cascada Mira Park, and tortured, blinded, killed and buried her, and also She stole her engagement ring. The cops found Amanda bc She tried to crawl out of her grave and died with only the arms sticking out of the mud. Now Amanda Is here again. Do not let Her be forgotten.
...
To me, this is and always will be the most enigmatic symbol in a game that is itself an enigma. This particular phrase has stuck with me for almost two decades.
Amandaishere.jpg
Sweet Amanda, in the Lake
Wonder how much She can take
Cut Her finger, take her ring
Bruise her up, black as sin
Shoot Her down, blind her eye
Bury Her in the night.
See the arms, shake in fear
Here She is, Amanda is here.
Once upon a time a woman named Amanda married a therapist. A patient of this therapist was obsessed with him and jealous of Amanda, so She kidnapped her, took her to Sorren Lake, near Cascada Mira Park, and tortured, blinded, killed and buried her, and also She stole her engagement ring. The cops found Amanda bc She tried to crawl out of her grave and died with only the arms sticking out of the mud. Now Amanda Is here again. Do not let Her be forgotten.
...
@@roxyd2947”repost on 10 other vids or Amanda will COME TO UR BED 2NITE!!!”
So basically, Silent Hill 4 WAS already in concept and rooted in S.H2
Walter Sullivan was mentioned in SH2 so at least some of the concepts that appear in SH: The room were being worked on.
Yes it was, it was also developed alongside SH3.
The orphanage gets mentioned in sh3 and James Sunderlands father gets mentioned in SH 4 as well as Dahlia and Alessa also.
Yeah, SH4 is greatly connected to Sh2 in a lot of ways. James father and Sulivan.
@@BlackCroft666 James' father is the appartment manager
I think the holes James jumps down is a reference to the nine rings of hell.
Definitely. After Dante and Virgil go down the nine rings of hell, they come out to the purgatory. Just like James came out to the gray foggy silent hill (purgatory), after going down the nine holes.
I saw it as a representation of him going deeper and deeper into his mind until he came to the realization of what he did. But that is the beauty of silent hill two, you can interpret it any way you want and it would still make sense.
Amandaishere.jpg
Sweet Amanda, in the Lake
Wonder how much She can take
Cut Her finger, take her ring
Bruise her up, black as sin
Shoot Her down, blind her eye
Bury Her in the night.
See the arms, shake in fear
Here She is, Amanda is here.
Once upon a time a woman named Amanda married a therapist. A patient of this therapist was obsessed with him and jealous of Amanda, so She kidnapped her, took her to Sorren Lake, near Cascada Mira Park, and tortured, blinded, killed and buried her, and also She stole her engagement ring. The cops found Amanda bc She tried to crawl out of her grave and died with only the arms sticking out of the mud. Now Amanda Is here again. Do not let Her be forgotten.
...
The hole is in James, it’s his loss, his memory full of holes. But now it gone the hole has been filled with Maria. And the truth that will come in time filling the holes in James.
I occasionally wonder if those scrawled notes were something James wrote to himself, forgotten just like what happened to his wife. Was he that far gone?
PEGGERS
I mean POGGERS
No.
I remember there also being holes he stuck his hand in. Putting parts of himself where they didn't belong... To put it politely. At least that's how I saw it, considering Pyrimidhead's treatment of the mannequins and various other things.
In the Midwest we also call shady or rundown bars “a hole in the wall”. Very interesting muse!
That's a phrase used anywhere not just the midwest
@@serenatsukino999 great
Amandaishere.jpg
Sweet Amanda, in the Lake
Wonder how much She can take
Cut Her finger, take her ring
Bruise her up, black as sin
Shoot Her down, blind her eye
Bury Her in the night.
See the arms, shake in fear
Here She is, Amanda is here.
Once upon a time a woman named Amanda married a therapist. A patient of this therapist was obsessed with him and jealous of Amanda, so She kidnapped her, took her to Sorren Lake, near Cascada Mira Park, and tortured, blinded, killed and buried her, and also She stole her engagement ring. The cops found Amanda bc She tried to crawl out of her grave and died with only the arms sticking out of the mud. Now Amanda Is here again. Do not let Her be forgotten.
...
@@roxyd2947 Interesting story.
There's actually a pub here in Ontario literally called "a hole in the wall" lol
The holes could be holes in James' perception of reality; he explicitly states he's trying to find the truth, and them being gateways to the truth could be recognition of holes in his own reasoning. Seeing this, he decides to go deeper, to stop hiding from the danger of the truth
I’d think it’d be referring to James himself, there WAS a hole in him from mary passing but he could very well just be replacing mary with maria or maybe he’s giving up all hope and feeling nothing. Just my thoughts though
Never thought of that.
Feeling nothing doesn't fill the hole, and the message seems written in a call for help or pleading tone, sad in other words. Filling it doesn't call for writing this message.
"A partner was needed. Now this has been met."
Doesn't sound like that. I mean, it's SH, and there is no hope there.
Wrong.
Kinda like theres a hole in the fans' hearts when this series went downhill... its gone now. Were used to the pain.
There was a sequel here...
...It's gone now
I will defend Downpour with my last breath.
There are many fascinating things about SH2, but this seemingly insignificant quote is perhaps my favorite.
As an undergraduate in philosophy, we had to write an essay where we interpreted a modern form of art by comparison with Greek tragedy. I immediately picked Silent Hill 2 and focused on the symbolism of death and sexuality, but also on the importance of negativity (as in: 'absence').
SH2 is masterful in getting ideas across without explicitly stating them, as opposed to other games that rely on cut-scenes and unambiguous dialogue to get the story across. Behind every event in this game, big or small, there is always something that is missing: a person who is no longer there, or a memory that has been forgotten. This also goes for the narrative structure: few things are so compelling as Laura's complete lack of response to the horrors that the other characters are seeing, or how Mary's latter is slowly fading away as you progress through the game. All this explains the true meaning of the city without openly stating it.
Did you ever post the essay anywhere? Id love to read it!
@@gio_graphy Afraid not. It was a presentation where you had to make each slide last precisely twenty seconds (called "pecha kucha" or something), so I had all my lines memorized for the presentation.
@@gio_graphy Actually, I did just now find an essay that accompanied the presentation, but it's in Dutch.
Sorry if this is too late, but I'd love to read it, too! I don't mind if its in Dutch :)
@@mrsleonscottkennedy Sure. I'd be happy to send it to you. Can you give me an e-mail address?
Silent Hill 2 is one of those games that only gets more relevant as time goes on. After finally having my first relationship, the game pulls on my heartstrings even more now.
Congrats on your first relation. Still waiting for mine.
Omg I found you 2+ years ago when you had like 1k subs I'm so happy your channel has grown so much. I used to listen to you at the bar all the time and now I'm sober and I think I stayed away from your channel for a while because I associated it with that. I'm so happy you are still here and that I am back
Happy to hear You’re no longer drinking congratulations 🖤🖤🖤🖤
One of my favorite extended Silent Hill themes - a throwaway line that rummages around in your brain long after you first read it. And not for nothing, defines the gameplay basis of one of the later games (Silent Hill 4).
So fascinating. Even though I'm obviously a silent hill fan I just love your videos for the pure fact they open up my mind. Really get me thinking deeply x
I love these vids. Always learn something new when it comes to myth/legends/beliefs etc
I've been watching a ton of your videos recently to quell quarantine boredome and I thought "wow i never saw this one before, i surely thought I would have" Thanks for keeping this series alive!
Hey Muse and people! Loved the video!
Just wanted to add that the line "There was a hole here, now it is gone" could also be a reference to the original release of Resident Evil 3 Nemesis, in which Carlos Olivira leaves a hospital, that then explodes and when he looks back to examine, it says "There was a hospital here, now it is gone".
So, you're saying that one of my favorite games makes a direct reference to my favorite game ever?
it might have been a reference to that but with actual meaning behind it. in context of RE3:Nemesis it fits the theory of the jewish ne‘ila which stands for ending or the end itself, because the hospital exploding would be an example of ending something
I am surprised you are one of the few people in the whole internet that has noticed this, SH2 developers were obviously referencing this phrase in their rival's game! 😂
@@DesusChristusdude you are that person that wants to find a deep meaning in everything even when looking at a dog take a shit 😂😂😂
I think this is one perfect example of people thinking way too much.
But, oh well.
I have a doctorate in Jewish Studies (modern philosophy, to be fair) and I didn't know the connection with the Day of Atonement prayer. Great research work!
It is a reference teaser to Silent Hill 4: The Room.
Isn't that a retcon?
@@Kayin88 yeah, and I don’t buy it
No it's not
Great video! There's always something to learn in silent hill, I wonder if the well that James looks down into right at the start of the game has any connection to this 🤔
In light of the notion that time is irrelevant in Silent Hill, I suppose it is worth mentioning that the corpse from which you acquire the apartment gate key uses James' character model.
You're so great! I'm Glad we're talking again about the hole. Your interpretation about it hooked me the First time
I think the persona who wrote these messages to James was James himself, and these were not actual written notes, but what we commonly call a mental note. James's journey through Silent Hill is James's journey through the unconscious.
This one message has always stuck in my mind ever since I found it on my first playthrough of the game, it's absolutely iconic -- I might even go so far as to say it's my favorite line out of the whole game. Maybe.
It's just a perfect example of the power of "Show, *don't* tell." It's _seductively_ mysterious, eerily ominous, doesn't give out any explanations, and yet it still doesn't wind up in that obtuse-just-for-the-sake-of-it-I-bet-the-creator-doesn't-even-know-what-that's-supposed-to-mean territory. It fits into the atmosphere of the town so perfectly, and it being such a small one-off thing that, as Muse said, could easily be missed, just really puts the icing on that rusty cake 😩💦
Omg, another great episode. Thank you so much! ❤️
You can also see this kind of thinking in Jungian psychology, and especially in the Alcoholics Anonymous program, which is based on that thinking. If you read the literature (I've been through the program myself), there are a lot of references to meditating or communicating with a "higher power". A lot of people presume that to mean a deity, which leads to people thinking AA is a religious program. It's not.
What you choose as your "higher power" is up to you, but it's generally the concept of "self". Ie. when you have an addiction, you are not yourself, but yourself still exists. Likewise, the progression of alcoholism is often described as a "descent", and the peak of it is often described as "hitting the bottom".
It's no coincidence that the symbolism of a descent as a negative trajectory appears in almost all cultures.
In that regard, the "there was a hole here message" could be seen as a reference to James' drinking habits like you say. It could mean that him being in a bar, but finding it empty could be seen as the avoidance of a further descent. If the bar was still there, he'd be tempted to drink to avoid what he's thinking and feeling, but that opportunity is now gone as the bar is empty. Ie. "There was a way for you to avoid your problems here, but it's been taken away."
I’m glad you’re still making content!! I am obsessed with your silent hill analysis
Can that "missing hole" be a reference to the broken in window caused by the flying monster in the first game?
I bet the team that developed SH are all sitting around like, "We did it! The game is still being talked about, even today!"
I'm glad they created this game! 😀
There is a band called lazer/wulf that has a album called there was a hole here, it's gone now. Great band and album.
I always thought it was about the transition from the fog world to the other world with the other world having an actual hole there
Ah that line. Me and my brother always say that to each other.
This game takes me back so much. Used to always watch him and my mom play spooky games but was too big a baby to play them myself until I was like 13 or 14 haha. Love silent hill, weird shit will stick with me forever
the nine holes that James falls into might also be a reference to Dante's inferno. there, hey traverses through the 9 levels of Hell. the game might be showing James going through the nine levels of his own personal hell based on his actions in the past.
The hell is dantes inferno?
@@Kova-ow2en it the first half of his Devine Comedy where he visits Hell, Purgatory and Heaven. in Inferno he visits all nine circles of Hell.
I agree, thought about Dante's Inferno too
This obviously wasn't the case with Silent Hill 2 (there's no way they would've known ahead of time anyways), but I always felt that because Silent Hill 4 used side stuff from Silent Hill 2 to build it's world, that the Neely's Bar statement was retroactively referring to the hole to the other world. Silent Hill 4 uses the story and character of Walter Sullivan (whose mentioned multiple times throughout Silent Hill 2) as an antagonist, and the apartment breaches into Walter's altered-world via a hole in the wall, which blocks up and must be summoned anew somewhere else in the apartment later in the game. And if looking at it retrospectively this way it could also be interpreted that before Walter Sullivan died, he had affected his victims in and around Silent Hill into being pulled into the altered world through holes in various places. But again, that's obviously not how it was viewed when they were making Silent Hill 2 as that story wasn't even made. But coming from Silent Hill 4, it might be possible (since it wasn't given official interpretation at the time) that they pulled from this kind of stuff as inspiration, which could even be interpreted as a retroactive explanation for things like the comment about a hole being there.
It's like the "the fear for blood tends to create the fear for flesh" quote in the first game. It's just a literal statement they put in to fuck with you.
This is super rad. Great work seriously. Awesome to see all of the stuff from these games truly broken down and researched with facts. Subscribed. 👍🏻
I appreciate how deep and symbolic a lot of things in silent hill are but part of me really doubts that team silent (small group of japanese programmers) put THAT much thought into the name of the bar area in their game, its possible but idk man
Part of art is that it has little to do with artistic intent imo. The symbols, regardless what their intended meaning was (if there was any intention) line up to give new meaning
If I remember correctly, at the beggining of the game in the bathroom, there was a strange drawing with hebrew writings and recently was discovered what it meant, so it's more than possible
I am 100% sure the person that came up with it was referencing Capcom. In Resident Evil 3, released 2 years before, you get an almost exact message after the hospital is blown off, but instead of "hole" it says "hospital" and they added a "but" in the middle. SH2 developers probably found it hilarious and wanted to include it as a subtle easter egg of the "humor" of their rivals.
I am always surprised almost nobody in the whole internet had pointed this out. Sometimes things are not so deep or have a hidden meaning and are just an inside joke from the people behind it. Lol
The fact that it's a small group of Japanese programmers weakens your argument actually. And yes, they put that much thought into many small details.
This seems pretty accurate to me, the Neely-Jewish connection in particular makes quite a bit of sense.
This always intrigued me. Thank you for delving into it.
Cheers and thankyou muse you rock my world this was a great episode:)
I wrote this on school's toilet's wall and a few days later, someone had written "That's one tall glory hole". Then I learned what a glory hole is.
Well, the idea of the Holes in most Silent Hill games deals in diving into the Subconscious. For Silent Hill 2 specifically, its appears that the holes mostly appear in places where the main character has a deep implied feeling of anxiety that dives deep into the Subconscious. James tends to run into Prison imagery (he did murder someone), Morgue and Death (again, he did murder someone, and it can be both the death penalty and the murder itself), a Labyrinth (A maze of the mind, where he finds the worst secrets of the game, far before his own)...
... Neeli's Bar is a Bar, and James has had a past of drinking. The reason the hole is missing, is that he knows already why he started drinking and acknowledges it, and then stopped. There's no need to have a subonscious realization or dive into his history of drinking--there was a hole, but its gone now. He doesn't need a passage into that. Drinking is not what he's denying, nor what he's going through involves drink (He made a very conscious choice in the murder--there's no excuses to help or deny that fact.)
There was a hole here. It's gone now. Is quite literally one of my favorite "quotes" from video games. It's just so remarkably weird and unique. Just comes out of nowhere and makes you wonder about so many things.
I remember (back in 2001) interpreting it on a literal level. That there was literally a hole there but now it's gone. I thought perhaps that if I would return at different times or if I do something I might be able to open a hole. I also remember thinking that this hole was somebody else's. That somebody else wrote it and James just found it. In the end, I could never figure out what it was or what it meant. But the strangeness of it and how singular it was stayed with me.
Fast forward over two decades (literally), and I replayed the game. At this point in time, I am wiser, older, more broken from a difficult life and I instantly made the connection between this "hole" and the location (bar). There is also the knowledge that most (if not all of Silent Hill 2) is based on the perception of the characters themselves which made me realize that this hole is being filled with alcohol. At this point in time (replaying the game), I start viewing this message as a subconscious message from James himself (who outright admits that he has a drinking problem if you examine the alcohol in the Heaven's Night) and that's how he is dealing with Mary's sickness by drinking himself into a stupor. Something that I have started to do myself recently, drinking way too much per night to just feel calm.
And yet, despite everything I have written above. I can't help but feel that it's not the entire picture.
What I mean by that is that there is a shocking amount of references to Silent Hill 4 in Silent Hill 2 (despite the fact that SH4 wouldn't be released for another 3 years) that makes me think that Team Silent already had some ideas about using holes to literally travel between locations (like Henry does in SH4) which makes me think that perhaps the hole is (again) a literal one. And again, witnessed by somebody (or perhaps even traveled by somebody) which has since been closed and gone (which would create the message to begin with). And since there are other people traveling SH at the same time as James (Angela, Eddie and Laura), it's not too hard to assume that somebody else is also moving around, perhaps via holes, in SH2 at (or around) this point in time.
Either way, it's a brilliant moment in a game filled with brilliant moments. And it's still one of my favorite "quotes" from a videogame.
Great video by the way. I have been watching your SH videos and they are all fantastic! Keep up the great work!
I am 100% sure the person that came up with it was referencing Capcom. In Resident Evil 3, released 2 years before, you get an almost exact message after the hospital is blown off, but instead of "hole" it says "hospital" and they added a "but" in the middle. SH2 developers probably found it hilarious and wanted to include it as a subtle easter egg of the "humor" of their rivals.
I am always surprised almost nobody in the whole internet had pointed this out. Sometimes things are not so deep or have a hidden meaning and are just an inside joke from the people behind it. Lol
Clearly a reference to circumcision
Man it's been way to long since I caught one of your videos. Their just as great as I remember, keep up the great work! Thanks
I just played this amazing game!! I truly love how infinitely deep it is! Great vid!
Me every time I watch the gaming muse: There was SADNESS here. It's gone now..
Developer 1: "Ay yo, check it I'ma put a hole here where the window should be for some surreal flavor...."
Developer 2: "Nah man, that's a bit excessive, get rid of it..."
Developer 1: "K, but I'ma let people know that there used to be a hole here lmao"
Developer 2: "Rofl..."
Yeah I also think there is a funny story behind it but quite different. I am 100% sure the person that came up with it was referencing Capcom. In Resident Evil 3, released 2 years before, you get an almost exact message after the hospital is blown off, but instead of "hole" it says "hospital" and they added a "but" in the middle. SH2 developers probably found it hilarious and wanted to include it as a subtle easter egg of the "humor" of their rivals.
I am always surprised almost nobody in the whole internet had pointed this out. Sometimes things are not so deep or have a hidden meaning and are just an inside joke from the people behind it. Lol
Notice the period after the word mary.. like the note was signed by James dundunduuuuu!! 🙂
Just discovered your channel and love your videos. Silent Hill will always be my favorite series and I still have my PS2 hooked up to this day so I can always play them at any time. With that being said, 10:00 you can return to the bar and there's a different message!?! I've played all the SH games so many times unlocking all the bonus weapons and endings and whatnot, but I don't think I've ever noticed there's a new message that appears after that scene. I possibly have but don't remember that at all. I love that I'm still discovering things about this series that I never knew in games I've spent 1000's of hours on.
Fantastic analysis!
Part of me wishes for a Silent Hill movie directed by David Lynch, then I wonder if my sanity could survive it 😅
in the historical society area. if James falls through about 9 holes...that could be a reference to the 9 circles of he'll in Dante's inferno
love your videos, have been binging them
A got this message.
The name on the bar said... Neely's.
But a dead person can't write a message.
It was written before they died
@@joeyfarris2543 yeah it was, but I was only making a joke reference. I think "hole" actually refers to the bar itself, equivalent to calling it a "dive" or such. The owner knew the bar was rubbish, and with monsters in the streets and no customers, decided to pack it up and take their chances. Left the message out of the frustration of it never amounting to much. Of course there's mystical stuff going on too like why's the message suddenly appear at a certain point in the game, etc, but all the mystical stuff tends to be based on actual stuff, so that's what I think the actual stuff is. Anyway it's just a theory.
Fantastic work as always!
A day with a muse upload is a good day 🐸
9 holes 9 levels of hell
The 9 holes James jumps into reminds me of the (9?) Circles of Hell in Dante's Inferno
That was bad-ass, fucking loved it!
I agree heavily with Woolie's immediate and direct interpretation of it.
There was a hole here.
Now it's filled by a corpse.
I want a river full of love
But then I know the holes will still remain
I need an ocean full of love
Although I know the holes will still remain
And this Swiss cheese heart knows
Only kindness can fill its holes
I'd love to dry my tears
As pain disappears
Darkseid became a Hole in Existence - Imaginary Axis ( Final Crisis).
Well, Silent Hill is kinda a shit hole altogether, so it being literally full of holes is on brand.
It's in a bar. I think it's about how alcohol fills that void; that HOLE. James claims to like drinking "a fair bit" when examining the liquor inside Heaven's Night
In another video I saw the theory that James himself writes these messages and the captialised letters are a hidden message, saying something along the lines "I need you Mary, be real." And since I've binged watched your videos in the last 2 days, I can't remember if its one of yours or from someone else, but I think that's a good theory
I don't think the bodies truly exist, the entire town is often saturated by a nightmare and it twists reality and dream into an unreal place
Nah, I don't think anyone else besides me ever understood the meaning of that message. I'm 26 years old and Silent Hill was the first game I ever played back in 1999 when I was 5! Yeah that's right. So here's the short version (if you need proof or arguments, reply me coz I'm not gonna write it all down, I'm pretty convinced that my theory is the more plausible one, anyway).
Silent Hill 2's story happens AFTER Silent Hill 4's, with that being said, you can probably guess the logic already.
In the precise location hinted at Neely's Bar, the Wood Side Apartments, is where James finds a garbage chute which is LOCKED or jammed, so after unjamming the garbage chute, the Murder Incident Article can be found which, by itself, proves that SH4 came before. So, the simplest of answers are usually the correct ones, "There was a HOLE here, it's gone now" means that SOMEONE from the SH4 universe travelled through one of those HOLES seen in the 4th game, and at some point, that particular hole was gone and the person decided to write the message on the glass in front of the hole's exit. I confess that I've always WANTED to believe Henry wrote that message, but after watching this video, I think the dead guy with the Apartment Key was the one who wrote it, even though it's proven that those bodies either doesn't exist, or they simply look like James in James' imagination. Also, you can find Walter Sullivan's grave in SH2 and guess what, whose are the 3 other names found there next to it? James, Angela and Eddie, with Walter those are the graves of 4 "criminals", or simply bad people. James killed his wife, Anglea killed her parents (despite the fact her father was also bad and abused her) and Eddie killed who knows how many people, probably people that he didn't even know. That's it, now some might argue "if the HOLE was from SH4 then why we never go to Neely's Bar in SH2?" but that's just lame thinking. Although now that I am starting to accept that it wasn't Henry, maybe the answer is also simple, if it was someone else who wrote it, then that's why we don't go through that hole in SH4. Maybe it was Laura hehe, ok I'm done. Take care, my fellow Silent Hill fans!
9 holes, and 9 squares, the infinity number, the number that is the same all the time.
One theory I heard that it's a metaphor for when something important is noticeably missing or covered up.
i hope that with the remake we will get further hints or even explanations to this topic
Love it thanks
Max Darrat suspects Baldwin was always meant to be part of the game, serving as part of James's unconscious mind. Myself, I wonder if it refers to holes and Silent Hill 4, similar to other Walter references. However with SH development history I doubt they had a plan that far ahead, but I wonder if perhaps it inspired the holes for The Room.
First thought was the holes in the silent hill 4 that Henry used.
Nah it has nothing to do with SH 4. That shit wasn't even thought of back then.
The thing about it being a hole in James's heart makes the most sense.
OMG why did I just found this channel? It´s amazing!
When I was playing silent hill 4 for the first time I was thinking about that writing
I always thought it was a reference to Silent Hill 4: The Room. Like to the people who lived in room 302 before Henry.
Great job on the Hebrew pronunciation, Muse!
I like to think the 2nd Bar Neely's message was there on James' first visit, but he just didn't percieve it, because he didnt want to
I have pondered the meaning to this moment in SH2 for years and had many an idea what it could mean.
I have watched your channel.......waiting patiently....to see if you would cover this "HOLE" message.
Alas....here we are! :)
James jumps down a hole in a game...it's not that "deep"
I think it means the idea of filling the 'hole' in your heart/soul being filled with drink. That was while Mary was alive. Once Mary's is gone the hole is gone, doesn't need to be filled. The message next to it also reinforces this with 'your not going to the same place Mary's is'
That's the wall brother. Hey wall! 🧱
Your so good! So talented! Yay.
Finally somebody is mentioning this fucking bloody writing
I find the music irritating. Makes it difficult for me to follow the message, especially towards the end.
almost 20 years later and people still analysing Pyramid Heads buttcheeks (I love it)
I always liked this note. It's Laura writing it - the weird capitalisation and messiness suggests a child. The tone of the second note is, though angry, lacking the sophistication you'd expect of an adult, and as Laura is representative of James' 'inner child' it makes sense for it to come from her. She is effectively leading him towards some sort of spiritual death/rebirth but the result of his journey is, as of this point in the story, indeterminate. The key/death/corpse link is great, though.
Love you. Thanks for the content
Its subtle things like this that make SH such a creepy masterpiece
I spoke to Guy Cihi once. I asked him if he'd record an outgoing message on my answering machine. I was going to have him say "There was a Mike here. He's gone now". Guy said "Apologies Mike, I don't do that sort of thing". Dammit.
I've always wondered if this was initially some kind of developers note. maybe tucked into a script comment for previous iterations of the games stages. As an artist myself, I'm always surprised how many interesting ideas come out of the seemingly mundane notes and scribbles. Eventually theses ideas grow so far beyond the boring thing they came from that the source is almost unrecognizable.
First 4 or so minutes are a real stretch. It's a lovecraft reference, calm down.
I used to think the message referenced Mary herself.
The "hole" could be Mary, as in, James only saw her as a sexual object, a hole for him to get pleased by, and now that she's dead, the "hole" is gone now, no longer here to please him.
But I no longer think that makes sense, and it's pretty disgusting, I don't think the devs would refer to her as a "hole" like that, also, It seems like their relationship was way more than just a sexual thing, and James really felt something for her.
And I was an edgy pos when I came to that conclusion, so there's that.
You should do a review or analysis of the medium game
Aliens wrote that message! They told me!
Well somewhere in the game you find an opened grave with James name on it .....later James committed suicide in one of the endings thus "Closing" the hole that was there