Has Sweden's coronavirus strategy failed? | FT
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- čas přidán 5. 09. 2024
- Sweden was the only EU country not to lock down and has had one of the highest per capita death rates in the world. The FT’s Nordic and Baltic correspondent Richard Milne examines the country's strategy. See if you get the FT for free as a student (ft.com/schoolsa...) or start a £1 trial: subs.ft.com/sp...
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playback speed = 1.25
Thx 😂
Legend
Haha
Thanks, that was really helpful! :) 1.25 was perfect
faith in humanity restored.
They flattened the curve and their hospitals never became overwhelmed, which was the reason why we were told we needed to go on lockdown. How is that a failure?
"and their hospital was never overwhelmed" That claim is not true.
Different countries have differing ways to classify their deaths. Sweden and the US are aggressive at calling everything Covid. That is the big difference with Sweden and it's Nordic neighbors.
According to Aftonbladet, the Nordic countries count Covid 19 dead equally. So it would be interesting if you could tell what the difference is.@@liner011f7
This is what happens when you bring people into your country that don’t understand you should regularly wash your hands, especially when working with elderly people
sweden lack of policy is called "say goodbye to your grandfather and grandmother" what a disgusting policy. what a disgrace
Big missing piece: there should be another factor, look at Spain who was in lock-down...
@@SOULCONQUEST Your numbers are wrong. Deaths in Sweden are above 5100 as of June 23th. Another thing is that the spread in Spain is mostly contained with a couple hundred cases per day on average, meanwhile in Sweden you still have weeks with more than 1000 new cases a day and trending up.
@@swanky_yuropean7514 Don't forget that there have been many BLM protests in the major cities and unlike in the U.S, the people here go out without masks, for them COVID-19 doesn't exist.
@@SOULCONQUEST dont forget the testing kit accurate
@GonzotheGonz1 And?, Many cases in big cities will test positive, just like what it happening in U.S, the dead rate will fall since the most infected will be young people.
PG trojka Yes
It compares OK with UK and Spain. But not to Norway. So why does Sweden get all the grief and not UK and Spain? Why does it only need to be compared to it’s “Nordic neighbors”?
UK and others have to defend unnecessary lockdowns
Yes, my country has failed big time! My sister is a nurse and her colleague (healthy 30 yo woman) is now lying in a respirator!
Hi, from your point of view, what would have been the best strategy to be adopted ?
@@hugoveracandia3562 we should have put people returning from their vacations in quaranteen from the start. Also, everyone should have gotten oxygen, even older people! Not giving them oxygen is murder!
@@andyn6053 In my country - Argentine - the goverment did that, they quarantined people who returned from Europe and Brazil and it was useless. Today, we are the country with the longest quarantine in the world. I agree with the topic of oxygen.
Propaganda
@@hugoveracandia3562 lockdown has proven to have a positive effect in reducing the spread. Without lockdown, Argentina probably would have had a much higher death toll. It´s a tragedy what happens all over the world right now. But giving older people morphine instead of oxygen is murder. I think everyone has the right to live, even elderly people. I hope other countries dont treat their older population as they do here in Sweden.
"One of the highest death rates per capita in the world," yes, higher per capita death rates though belong to 4 countries that practiced lockdown. According to statistic.com (24/7/20) Belgium has had 859.04 deaths per million; UK 685.14; Spain 608.45; Italy 580.69 and Sweden 557.39. Whilst South Korea did not implement lockdown and had 5.77 deaths per million. At this point in time we do not have enough reliable information to make judgements about what is the most effective way of dealing with Covid 19. When assessing how the approach to the virus has been handled the negative impact of lockdown will have to be balanced against any possible benefits. When all factors have been taken into consideration Sweden may be seen to have made a better choice, but only time will tell.
True. Besides i also believe this method will be proven effective in the long run. Now is too early to conclude anything
Sweden decided to rid themselves of all the old unproductive people it did not stir any anguish in their cold Viking hearts.In Brazil Balsonaro has decided to let it burn through the favelas ridding himself of the poor and indigenous population.In the USA Trump slow walked the response and also got rid of a significant number of minorities in the urban centers.It's a worldwide pattern consistent with hypercapitalism. In contrast Finland and Denmark care about their people and did the right thing.
@Peterolen Listen to me in war and plague the government has to act for the benefit of it's population.What if instead of covid it was EBOLA Obama stopped Ebola in Africa before it got to US.He lost a total of 11 people in USA and set up a system to deal with pesky diseases like it. Trump came along and fired everybody and now we have 110,000 dead Americans.If you only care about money then add up the economic loss from all the dead people who will never pay taxes or consume goods again and all the people who will go bankrupt due to medical bills even if they do survive.
STOP the nonsense, you can blame Trump for many things but this is NOT one of them. In the US each individual state controls how they handle their response to COVID-19. Trump can say whatever he wants but in the end, this is under state control NOT Federal control. Each state is responsible for its success or failure.
lol, you're ridiculous thinking that they've let the coronavirus roam to rid those places of minorities. Everywhere in the West minorities, if you by that mean brown and black people, are worse affected, and it certainly hasn't to do with any conscious effort. Vitamin D and lifestyle are more likely culprits.
@@mboiko exactly , I don't get it, people are responsiple for there own actions not president trump
Ayala
In such cases, they make it terribly bad job and only managed to kill 1000 people more than they managed to kill 2018 January to April.
Because there are so many more who died this year.
That's a nice rhetorical question.
I am in northern Italy and I have to admit that the lockdown has saved us from a worse escalation of an already bad situation. In some northern villages it was very bad. We also paid a lot for the delay in the lockdown. I see that the longer the lockdown is delayed, the weaker its effect will be. Besides, sparsely populated areas can benefit most.
Ok, our hospitals are fine now, but strategists says: it is not enough to win a battle, the result must also be consolidated. We'll see...
I don't have a simple answer to the freedom / lockdown question. I honestly don't think our economy would have gone better if we had pretended that the virus didn't exist. I also think that such a question will never be answered because we do not know what we have escaped, moreover we cannot measure the value of a life in economic terms, even if it were the life of an old man. How much does the life of a doctor who helps his patients cost? We have lost many and I think they asked us not to get sick, possibly.
To those who say that our sacrifices have not been rewarded with benefits, I reply that they deal with what cannot be known, because nobody even know what scenario would have opened if we hadn't get any lockdown.
Also we don't yet know much about the long term effect of the sick. So it's not just the amount of dead we must pay attention to. We must also consider the price the survivors have to pay (and it will cost economically, too). I hope they will eventually fully recover, but there is a lot of data indicating that might not necessarily be the case. We already know this from SARS-1 survivors, and there are lots of follow-up studies where even 2/3 of "mild" case survivors have lung damage that one should not expect to see in a young otherwise healthy person.
@@fintux you are deeply right. In my country, a boy (18-year-old) previously in excellent health, contracted the infection and then recovered,
but then he had to undergo bilateral lung transplantation.
It has been seen that the covid leaves signs of its passage, weeks after healing. One of the most evident signs is the permanent loss of respiratory function due to fibrosis (the scar of inflammation). This is not a good thing at all. Other organs besides the lungs seem to be targeted by the virus: heart, kidneys, brain, ... with consequences yet to be assessed.
@@istilius I'm really sorry for the boy :( And I don't know how many not quite as severe, but still severe, cases there are :/ I've also read about pancreas being affected and thus triggering type I diabetes (the one that is much more difficult to keep in control).
Do like Sweden! It works1
@@pianystrom8137 it works if you're okay with killing thousands of people. Do like other Nordic countries - it works much better. You might not realize but of the Nordic countries, Sweden is the most restricted at the moment. Restaurant regulations have been tightened, whereas in other Nordic countries they have been relaxed. Travel from Sweden is limited to pretty much everywhere except perhaps Russia and Brazil. The lockdown in Sweden never came from the authorities, but a lot of people have changed their behavior.
Just look at the Google mobility reports. You can no longer really see any difference between Finland and Sweden: www.gstatic.com/covid19/mobility/2020-07-03_FI_Mobility_Report_en.pdf and www.gstatic.com/covid19/mobility/2020-07-03_SE_Mobility_Report_en.pdf
Mobility in Finland has been increasing, whereas in Sweden it has been in a decline. You might perhaps also think that summer holidays have reduced the amount of people in schools, work places, public transport etc. Could that perhaps reduce the amount of people getting sick?
Other countries is trapped home. I am trapped in school please help
So how many years is appropriate to have closed before opening the community.
The virus does not disappear.
a lockdown can have jst as negative affect as a virus. no education limited access to healthcare lack of physical activity as well as physological problems. these can all affect your health. as for the deaths old people do not go to bars and cinemas or play football so y should these things close. what happened in these old homes was incredibly sad but with no livelehood and very little life left these sort of deaths were simply of foreshadowing of what was going to happen anyway
The nursing homes deficincies ought to be well known for the swedish CDC (Folkhälsomyndigheten) at the outbreak. In fact the head of the CDC recently used these deficiencies to deflect criticisms hurled at its state epidemiologist Anders Tegnell.
Agreed...and why is everyone ignoring the other component in these figures...most deaths outside the carehomes are NOT the Swedes...but rather the large migrant population..who generally have dark complexion and low levels of vitamin D.The ethnic groups also have poor assimilation of zinc due to a missing enzyme in their liver function...but hey ho...let's blame this on an easy target.
@@johncordey2769 whereas VD makes a difference, housing conditions are more significant for the spread among immigrants. Most Swedes even have a house where one person lives alone, that tends to change for immigrants, where one person infected will tend to infect other relatives or people on the same house or housing project.
The handling of elderly homes can certainly be criticized, but this has been a problem in many countries that did lock down. It's not clear how much we can connect the elderly home situation with the overall Covid strategy.
@coldrunner results are evidence already Soon Sweden will bypass Italy in matter of fatal cases in proportion to its population, the country has already by passed France. And northern countries were not as much hit than west and southern Europe except Sweden The Swedish no lockdown is a big failure for a country which always shows itself as virtue example
@coldrunner thank you have good time
mortality in covid-19 vary between clountries depending how they count death in covid-19....many only count those who died in covid-19 at hospitals......sweden include hospitals, residential homes etc
In Pennsylvania 60% of the deaths were in nursing homes.
With a lockdown, Sweden would still have at least 4.000 deaths, because Stockholm was hit almost as hard as London and NY. In Southern part of Sweden, without lockdown, we've had less deaths than the Copenhagen area, who had a lockdown.
Of course Sweden was hit economically as bad as other countries, because Sweden lives on export. Small companies in Sweden have survived better than in most other countries, though. And if all other countries had followed the Swedish stradegy, the world would've prevented 122 million new starvation cases at all ages, and 5 million less deaths among children 5 yo or younger.
But the world have choosen to save maybe 150.000 more elderly instead (and I'm one of them). Still some people dare to call Sweden murderers, for maybe 1.500 more deaths compared with a lockdown. Shame on them!
Why are so many British people offended by Sweden?
As you can see in the plot at 1:00, Sweden’s curve has followed UK’s for last 50 days.
The deaths have dropped from 10 to 3, and the trend is promising.
Life expectancy
Sweden: 82.7
UK: 81.2
I think the graphs just underline what is going wrong, Spain and Italy were hit first in europe so they were late with their lockdown on the curve, uk waited to long, to get its act together and sweden still is not getting it so that is the result plain simple.
The question here is just if they wanted to kill their elderlys for economic reason, I would say yes and that is really sad.
Total health counts. Life expectancy is higher in Sweden than neighboring countries, and far better than UK and USA. This pandemic won’t change the life expectancy more than a few months, and Sweden will remain above neighboring countries.
@Valdimar : The primary reason is that Swedish authorities does the math and finds how to optimize the total health for the limited money that we have. And it works. As you see in the plot in this video, the new deaths is decreasing. (Please pay attention to the logarithmic scale).
Here are a few numbers:
Death from covid so far: 5000.
Death from influenza+pneumonia an average year: 3800
Death from cardiovascular disease an average year: 33,000
Life expectancy 82.7
@Valdimar : The second reason is that Swedish government tends to react slowly to all events. It is deep in the mindset of a country that has lived in peace for 210 years and without natural disasters. The constitution was made to protect the democracy and not repeat the mistake from Germany 1933. The government’s power is limited by authorities that are somewhat independent. Every time making a change, it must first be determined which authority is responsible. A lockdown isn’t allowed at all.
If covid had been more lethal, then I’m afraid that Sweden would had been in deep trouble.
Valdimar Helgason: Iceland has population smaller than a LOT of cities in the USA. Your procedure is excellent for a small isolated population but when you try it on a third of a billion people (USA) and the country is virtually open border, it is futile.
NOT! Iceland is the ONLY country that has successfully eradicated the virus! And it is totally due to the SMALL population! (40 Icelands would fit in the CITY I live in! Houston Tx.) 50% testing is child's play in such a small population. (cost and implementing wise) Try that for 160 MILLION people to do 50% in the USA! The logistics alone are staggering! The factories and labs right now are running 24 hours a day and still have not come close to supplying enough tests! This size problem is not under control here! Nobody had considered that we might have to test 160 million people in a matter of weeks! We also have social problems that are not present in Iceland. Watch our TV right now to see the burning cities! A terrifying thought is if the USA falls, Iceland falls! (you will be speaking Chinese before long!) Our military keeps the world free. We do make some terrible mistakes but we do that one thing for the world! It costs us dearly.
There seems to be a drive by the international media to demonize the Swedish approach. The fact of the matter is that while they have had a fairly elevated number of Covid deaths, there are six European countries that have had more per capita, and all of them locked down. If Sweden's approach is so terrible, what are we to think of these six other countries? And, what happens if these countries have a second wave but Sweden does not, due to greater immunity?
I also wonder why the rest of the world is so angry. I have a few theories:
1. Most countries with draconian lockdown have been even more successful defeating the virus - at least temporary. They are afraid that Sweden will reinfect their countries. I think they shall close their borders.
2. Sweden is misunderstood. Sweden also has taken actions but they are not legally binding. The government asks everybody to be careful but there is no penalty if we’re not.
3. People who have suffered lockdown think it is unfair that Sweden didn’t lockdown.
4. Governments in lockdown countries need to justify what they did, so they use Sweden as a warning example, and exaggerate.
5. China wants to fool the world. When western economies are weakened, China gets lots of opportunities, like buying companies and getting political control of indebted nations.
Even before the covid crisis, China had a very hostile relationship to Sweden, and China even kidnapped a Swedish citizen, the author and bookstore owner, Gui Minhai when he visited Thailand.
The Fact of the matter is: YOU SUCK when compare to places like Taiwan, where no lockdown is in place. Anti bodies only last 2 months at most. You are forever a laughing stock of EU!! Even Vietnam is doing great compare to you fools.
The sooner you realize your response is a JOKE the better.
"Fairly elevated numbers" do you call 5000 death on a 10 million ppl population "fairly"?
@@markusmao6430 they don't last 2 months you troll.
@@genny7084 Yes.
Yes, the descent of Sweden into social barbarism, yes again, that is what I call it. We had to watch that medical dolt tell us how smart he (they) are and would go against what is already known (Trump too) and lo and behold the predicted happened and the ethics fell victim. Treating the old as disposable, who could have believed it would happen. A human rights action is needed here to name names and allocate blame. Do no harm became do harm just keep it to old people, sickening to say the least.
Troll alert!
As with so many things, it comes down to how you crunch the numbers and where you place your value.
Sweden's deaths-to-population stats are far better than the UK; and their economy, children's education, and other disruptions have been far fewer, too.Their strategy may also improve herd-immunity.
I doubt the UK's NHS would have been able to cope in the way that the Swedish system did - 10-years of austerity on the NHS was never going to cope!
Herd immunity through infection is the worst possible outcome if lives are to be saved. and recent antibody tests published tells us we're at 6.1 %. There are 208 entities doing better and 6 doing worse, that's not a sign of a strategy doing well. And what's more: all of those doing worse are much more densely populated and five of them did their lockdown far into the virus spread.
Please come back in a year and measure total health. Sweden has higher life expectancy than neighboring countries, even Norway.
I believe that Sweden’s will maintain a higher life expectancy.
@@hakanpetersson2662
I don't belive the antibody numbers they calculated. Needs more real test that's works.
But how old is the antibody test you refering to. Is it the one from mid April or is it a new one.
The antibody test need two week after infection to get a result. So that test in mud May was how many infected in Early May.
let it go.....
@@henrikl4244 There have been test results for three consecutive weeks 18-20. The results have been 5.5, 4.8, 6.1 %. The last week probably referred to the situation around late april/early may. Usually an overwhelming majority will be confirmed to be either negative or positive after two weeks but half of the positive results can be visible already after one week. Sensitivity is supposed to be 99.4 % and specificity 98.9 % . As you can see the results fluctuate. So it is impossible to tell if and how much the share with antibodies has risen. But there is certainly evidence for the spread slowing down from mid-april onwards so I would assume we are nowhere near the numbers projected by the swedish CDC seven weeks ago.
This is freedom of infecting, Lmao😂
At least they won't have to deal with the lockdownstress which cost in Britain f.eks. ten thousand extra lives among the dement people compared to last year this time. I am sure there will be many more mentally sick people soon all over the world because of the trauma this lockdown has caused.
Very sad, even in 3rd world countries death rates have been far lower than 1st world countries. A basic mask and bar of soap and basic distancing rules have really helped. Amazingly and excellent cigarette smoking has been banned in one or two 3rd world countries. Even for a time alcohol was banned. Even impoverished countries with few resources have taken the time and trouble to protect their citizens...so very sad with all the Swedish resources and wealth your outbreak would have been minimal. Heartfelt condolences to all that have lost there loved one's
Too early to say. It will be interesting to see whether the Swedes have developed a natural immunity to the virus. If they have, future death rates will be very very low meaning many lives will be saved along with their economy, whilst other countries suffer.
Sure... as long as it’s not You, right? or are you willing to sacrifice yourself for the economy (or sacrifice a beloved one, but I guess you don’t have any) It sounds like the final solution, i am surprised you europeans haven’t learned anything since 1940
and now 3 years laiter .. Sweden won the battle!
In the USA the Spanish flu pandemic took 3 years to get under control. They stopped lockdown too early. But countries that have a hard lockdown might be fighting Covid-19 for years. This might be because the disease is slowly spreading through the population.
Countries that don't have a lockdown might have recovered from Covid-19 in less than a year.
But we have the resources to fight it for years in a proper Way, because we didnt use it on dying people
Then you have to also calculate how many people who would otherwise not been able to see a specialist in health care for what ever reason for early diagnosis for symptoms that if treated early could be cured. but because of lock down this hasn't happened. The deaths can not be calculated but i assume it is a unsightly number.
Another reason it is unclear if sweden has made a mistake will be when the 2nd wave arrives. Will because of the herd approach taken by the sweden government reduce greatly compared to any country that hasn't adopted the herd effect.
interesting will have to wait this one out.
Deaths per million Population
USA 396
Sweden 532
worldometer
Last updated: July 02, 2020, 10:54 GMT
How U.S. city officials responded to the 1918 pandemic played a critical role in how many residents lived-and died.
Over the course of two years, the Spanish Influenza of 1918-1919 killed more than 50 million people worldwide.
When it was all over, the Spanish flu killed an estimated 675,000 Americans among a staggering 20 to 50 million people worldwide. Certain U.S. cities fared far worse than others, though, and looking back more than a century later there’s evidence that the earliest and most well-organized responses slowed the spread of the disease-at least temporarily-while cities that dragged their feet or let down their guard paid a heavier price.
HISTORY
UPDATED:MAR 27, 2020ORIGINAL:MAR 11, 2020
DAVE ROOS
Hardly social distancing there
Sweden massively fucked up. There you go.
And Sweden is the BEST case scenario in terms of having a country where you can pull this off. (One large city, mostly low-density population otherwise, half of all people have single-dwelling homes.)
Total failure.he he he. Too proud to admit.
the death toll per 100.000 people is in belgium higher than sweden 🇸🇪, the belgium gov went into lockdown early
Belgian numbers are not comparable with the rest of the world. There the authorities listed as due to coronavirus any suspect death, regardless if a test had been made or not.
Neutron Alchemist UK and Spain did as well, do not think the data alone of belgium is off
@@mrzwerus UK locked down way too late. Sweden had several weeks of advantage over Italy and Spain, and the further advantage of a MUCH lower population density. The other nordic States exploited that advantage, locked down early (only few days after Italy) and suffered very limited casualties. Sweden did not.
As a result, Sweden has SIX TIMES the death per million inhabitants than Denmark (that have an higher population density) TEN TIMES those of Finland and Norway, and it's death rate is growing faster than anywere else in Europe.
Guys this is not a competition, really
Yes, it has failed. Our government is a disaster. ... Help! ... This is Palle, one of the last survivers onboard this sinking ship.
@@deedeemegadoodoo2897 Well, I'm one of the last survivers, not the only one. Take care.
The mainstream media just cannot grasp the fact that the Swedish approach is a long-term strategy and that comparisons at this early stage are meaningless.
69% of the public approve of the country's response according to a June poll by Dalia Research. This is higher than many other developed countries.
Yet it goes south
Response to a global pandemic is more serious an issue than a popularity contest.
India too is adapting Sweden's approach we are unlocking when we have 600000 covid cases.
Coincidentally, Anders Tegnell has been giving some "good advice" to India on how to handle the crisis. The reason probably is that he doesn't want India to fare better than Sweden. It would make Sweden look - if possible - even worse than it looks now.
What's going to happen to their Nordic neighbors when they come out of lockdown and their numbers go up ?the fact that you're comparing the two right now and making it public is wrong !
Denmark is out of lockdown, and nothing happened. We have tested about 20% of the population - a worldrecord? Sweden has limiter testing, because the High number of infected looks bad, and they dont have resourses to do it because of the High number of infected
I see a lot of references being made to population density in comparisons between countries. However, what does the general population density of a whole country like, say, Russia matter if 80% of the population live in big cities in the western parts of the country? Sweden, while having low general population density compared to some countries actually have a larger proportion of the population in urban centres than some countries on the European continent, like France for example.
Well, so does Finland, Norway and Denmark. I think the population density is not that great of a factor, it's more how the network of connections are. If there is a very complex network of connections (inside the city, but also outside of the city and with foreign countries), that means that the virus has a lot of opportunities to spread. If there are more isolated, smaller networks, the virus has less chances to sneak in. Another thing are super spreader events. Places with big concert halls and also restaurants with different customers every day - this kind of thing will make a difference. They both are related to population density, but I think that the population density is not really the key factor, it's more just a covariant. What is more, we are currently seeing a big wave of infections in the rural areas of the U.S., which also tells that the virus doesn't really care about how close to each other people live. After all, the virus mostly spreads in close contacts, not in the streets, and not from one apartment building to the next by itself.
@@fintux Well spoken
@@mcnultybizns3941 thanks! :)
@@fintux I guess that the perfect conditions for the virus is when it can spread in an unhygienic marketplace, a church, indoor concert, nightclub or meatplant to a lot of people who then go home where they live in close contact with a large family. These are conditions that can present themselves in rural or smalltown areas as well. It seems that though we do not know all the fact yet that covid19 may not be as contagious as influenza or at least the manner in which it spreads is somewhat different. We have much to learn still but perhaps, if the Swedish strategy turns out to be mistaken, which I guess hinges to a large degree on whether the other scandinavian countries can maintain 'containment', then I would say that the fundamental mistake was to overestimate how contagious the virus was. The Swedish strategy was to a large extent based on the assumption that the virus could not be contained over time. But such estimates I believe were based on an analogy with influenza and how influenza spreads in society. But covid19 seem to be quite different. In any event, it is still to soon to say for sure whether such pessimism was wrong.
@@mcnultybizns3941 I read a very interesting analysis on this related to the epidemic modeling in Finland. Probably most European countries had prepared for an influenza-like pandemic (due to the previous big pandemics being those since the Spanish flu).
Since COVID-19 is a respiratory illness superficially resembling a severe flu, it was probably thought to apply well enough.
COVID-19 actually spreads quite aggressively, but it spreads in clusters, and super-spreaders are in a big role. That is why it can be more difficult to predict, but easier to contain. This is in contrast to a flu where there are not really that many zero-spreaders, and most of the spread is done through the regular spreaders. The Finnish health authorities said repeatedly that it is not possible to contain the virus, but only to slow down the spread. Part of this was the influenza model used. Part of it was was probably the thought that there is a massive amount of people who are asymptomatic or with very mild symptoms, so it was thought that it is not possible to find so many asymptomatic spreaders, and also that it is not really worth it if this is like a flu that just requires more ICU treatment. Slowing down was thought to be 1) the only method really being available, and 2) good enough.
The article is here, and skimming through, Google translate seems to be doing in genearl a suprisingly good job of translating Finnish to English, so hopefully this would be understandable for you if you're interested in reading more.
translate.google.com/translate?sl=fi&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.tiede.fi%2Fblogit%2Frajankayntia%2Fryppaina-leviavaa-epidemiaa-voi-olla-vaikeampi-ennustaa-mutta-helpompi-torjua
Another thing, not mentioned in the write-up is the long incubation period of COVID-19. With influenza it's just 1-3 days, so people can start spreading the diseases the next day after catching it. With COVID-19, it varies, but it's mostly 3-5 days, and can be quite commonly up to 14 days. This makes contact tracing and isolating much more feasible for COVID-19 than for influenza, even though the testing is slower as we don't yet have rapid tests for COVID-19 (well, we actually have mariPOC test that can detect the virus from a swab in 20 minutes, but it's not yet widely used; and we might be getting a 2-minute breahtalyzer test that costs 2 EUR/test, but it's still being tested). So once the rate of infections is low enough, even manual contact tracing becomes achievable. Hopefully the apps will also make it even more effective.
Yet another thing... the face masks. I don't understand why Nordic countries are lagging behind with this. The evidence is getting pretty clear: where masks are worn universally, the disease has been contained more quickly, and societies can be kept more open.
Sweden gov is happy to decline the warfare for elders.
You think they care about a few elderly peoples pentions when they mass import muslims from the east?
ANELE SWEDISTAN
@@royisdabest Wow you're actually autistic enough to use twitch emotes outside of twitch.
Chode Master These muslim jokes are becoming tiring
@@TheMolabola It's not a joke.
are they weeding out those who can't make it through the virus on their own, like early Sparta and viewing their elderly as throwaways????
The elderly in home-care are offered morphine rather than oxygen. It's almost barely disguised euthanasia. So sad, disgusting.
@@petitio_principii yes they are sacrifying the elderly to save the economy. Very sad to see.
yes.
My grandfather ended up in the hospital for ”lung infection”. He got offered Morphine instead of treatment. He was 96 y/o and it obviously played a part how they prioritized
@@petitio_principii Tons of elderly are at hospitals. Not to say, almost everybody affected hard by the virus.
It is difficult to compare countries far from each other but in this case, all of the six Nordic countries actually in praxis did almost the same things - with one exception: five of the six Nordic countries (Denmark, Norway, Iceland, Greenland and in part Finland) closed down immediately for one month. In addition to slowing down the start, it is thought that the main effect was that the populations in those countries understood how serious the situation was. After one month, schools partly reopened and things slowly went back to normal - including free travel between those five countries. Now, two months after opening up again, the number of infected on June 29th was 1248 in Sweden and on average below 20 in the other countries (Fin: 9, Den: 32, Ice: 2, Nor: 16, Greenland: 0). That difference has little to do with death rates but illustrates a much higher infection level in Sweden. Because of this, the other Nordic countries are reluctant to allow Swedes to move freely into their countries. The Swedes are welcome, of cause, to chose their own strategy, even if the rest of Europe do it differently, but there are consequences. In this case, it will take longer before Swedes can travel freely. The Swedish politicians do not seem to understand that and press on for other countries to allow them in.
About the argument about the economy: That not locking down saves money: It has actually been proven to be wrong in a recent study comparing the Swedish economy with Danish economy during the epidemics: arxiv.org/pdf/2005.04630.pdf
In today's situation, where the other countries are almost operating normally, the effects and costs might affect Sweden more. Just think about the added burden, also economically, on their healthcare system having hugely more cases than their neighbors.
About the deaths in old people homes: There might be differences in treatment practices, but experts point out that the main difference between Sweden and its neighbors in that respect is that there is a much higher number of uneducated health workers in Swedish old people homes than in the neighboring countries (pointed out by a Swedish medical expert). He suggests that health measures, for this reason, might have been taken less seriously in Swedish elderly people's homes than in the other countries.
A big difference is that the Swedish strategy has been run by health experts, with Tegnell in the front. But the problem is much more complex than just health. It involves social sciences, economy, healthcare, politics, etc. So in the other countries, the situation was dealt with by politicians advised by among other advisors health experts. Locking down, even for a short time, might have done the trick making people take the rules and guidelines seriously. Politicians understand that.
The "hope" expressed by the Swedish experts and politicians is that the other five countries will be hit harder than Sweden in the next wave. That could be right, but the experience so far worldwide seems to be that flares are dealt with by very local lockdowns and not at a national scale. The Swedish strategy seems to have been built on a few crucial assumptions that had to be true for success. So far it looks like a few of them were not correct, but we still don't know and Sweden may be right in the long run, while the rest of the world was wrong.
lockdown the elderly homes and other people with diagnosed weak immune systems?
Wow could the narrator actually speak any slower? 😴 😴 😴
This is probably intended for international audience, who don't speak English natively.
Sweden had a partial lockdown, supplemented by a high level of individual self discipline.
High schools, colleges were closed as social gathering of more than 50 people, no sports events, concerts, movies, etc. People have been encouraged to work from home.
In fact, there are data showing reduced level of social activities in Sweden similar to that seen in Norway.
But how could this happen. Sweden 5776 died, Norway 257 died.
@@notaviking6997 Maybe it is because Sweden didn't close schools for 16 and under, didn't take good care of their seniors, didn't temporarily ban indoor dinning at restaurants, etc.
The fact is, Sweden is among the worst 10 countries in the whole world in Covid deaths per capita, although it has taken numerous but insufficient restrictive measures during the pandemic. It is not a life as usual example, and certainly not a successful story.
I think that for Swedes to think that they have failed is impossibility. And they have as a nation succeeded, must admit. Heja Sverige. Don't give up and remember to use masks.
Looking at other counrties i really wonder what their future perspective is. Lock down with every time the infection rate increases which will increase even more in the winter months.
The usa is kind of slowly taking over the Swedish way but het more densely packed cities which eases the spread. Only Stockholm got hit hard and thats a tiny city in comparison to some American cities.
I dont think Sweden failed they are more likely months ahead with the spread compared to other European countries and never got overrun. If the netherland would have used the same tactics it would not have done well because of their population density. And southern counties like spain and italy even worse because of cultural differences.
@@remco6816 Well, your opinion is very well grounded. Let's hope that every country will get a good grip on this virus. I didn't want to insult Swedes. In fact I admire Sverige and other Scandinavian countries. You are peaceful and hard working nations. Have a nice evening, and enjoy your short summer!
Oh my my so so sorry Sweden people....best of luck.
You see the second wave goes fast in the vast majority of Europe, and Sweden stands alone again: No second wave compared to other countries. You just criticize everybody who are different with you
The criticism is simple, it is the clear speech of the numbers. Sweden 5776 died, Norway 257 died.
@@notaviking6997 Wow looking at the Britain and Belgium? And you know the Swedish high death rate is partially due to the human made error in the aging facilities. The virus had outbreaks there, thousands of the eldery died. But this is probably nothing to do with the overall strategy. FHM had clearly required that people over 70 to stayat home. On the other hand, if you look at the death at my age, only 9 died. This is less than traffic accidents right?
@@notaviking6997 If you compare like that, you will end up finding that Norway, Danmark and Finland are far far far worse than Japan and South Korea in death per capita.
@@sequoia7239 Yes and what so, have never thought that Norway is the best in the world.
@@sequoia7239 The difference between Sweden and Norway is that you Swedes have given a damn about the virus, and actively taken the life of the elderly. While we in Norway from day one have taken the virus seriously, and fought it. Because there are such big differences, Sweden 5776 died, Norway 257 died.
To answer the headline: No
Nice try Sweden. You played the game with the prize is your own people life. What a country.
They could've just behaved like intelligent people. Total lockdown isn't the only counter option. You can also implement loose restrictions and/or recommendations.
The facts are, a new virus no one knew anything about, so Sweden went for no lockdown and herd immunity! Even at this point no one is sure if there is a full herd immunity. Some have got sick again or the symptoms have came back whilst others who got it we just don't know how long they are immune for, 6 months, a year ? Who knows and who did Sweden take advice from on this strategy? In saying all this they still did better than the UK who did shut down but too late.
4000 deaths per Million OMD
Where did u get that info about Open borders?
Maybe within the country?
king moe nope! We have had closed borders since february 2020
First, there are patients who have been denied treatment in hospitals because there was no room. (Norway went into lockdown, to prevent this from happening) The old people were denied oxygen, given morphine instead Nothing was done to prevent the infection from spreading in the beginning, Anders Tegnell has admitted that it could be put in a little stricter measures. Nothing was done to prevent infection in old people's homes. And finally 5770 are many dead. therefore, it is allowed to criticize the Swedish strategy.
Things are multifaceted and many factors does matter. F.ex. tradition and how people live. Denser population and more traveling increases the rate of progression (you can notice that in how low the numbers are in Northern Sweden).
F.ex. in a nation such as the US you can't trust people to follow guidelines; However, also some people are more likely to follow guidelines than others (A lot of elderly are sceptic because of all the scare-mongering that have existed in the past over all diseases that never came here).. But also; People really do feel like they HAVE to take care and visit their old relatives so they don't have to sit alone at an old-folks home for the year that might very well be their last..
Then we have also fucked things up by letting right wing politicians change our system and try to privatize everything; It has failed on SO many levels. When people want to make a profit they WILL make it in the cheapest way they think they can get away with; A lot of old-folks home don't have properly educated staff, or enough staff.
I'd say that Sweden's strategy would've worked better if it wasn't for the people who were foolish enough to listen to the propaganda how this is "no worse than just a flu". Swedish people are NORMALLY people of sound mind, but we have gotten some brain-worms from the USA, such as anti-vaxxing, believing that the free market ever worked, believing that people should look at an egocentric and shortsighted perspective, questioning everything replacing what scientific experts find out with "man-guessing".. We ARE better than the states in this regard, but the racist party (I'd say it's our equivalent of Trump, BUT they aren't CLEARLY incompetent and mentally disabled) have an approval rating between 20 and 25%..So about half that of the USA.. and in regards to other bad propaganda we also succeed to hold back the stupidity better than the USA. (Of course; A LOT of that stupidity relate to greed and high sense of self/egotism, so it is much more prominent in our bigger cities.. that are all in the southern Sweden.. and the place where the virus hit first and hardest)..
As someone in the risk zone and living in Sweden. We don't get the care we need. Have not been tested, but if I catch it I'm certain I will be hospitalised. Restaurant's does not follow the rules. Hospital wings get infected and don't get me started on the crowds of people on public transportation.
So how many years is appropriate to have closed before opening the community.
The virus does not disappear.
Get you some Ivermectin if you ever contract this virus. I used this drug at home and cured a severe Covid infection in 4 days. It works.
RapTorZ Guesings
Lock down not needed but masks are needed people don't wear masks
From Vietnam pray for everyone safety
This virus has proved to be a real disaster for how we have cared for our seniors. I am not sure what we could have done differently, except perhaps responded more quickly but the virus was not well understood in the beginning. Who the victims would be and how the infection was transmitted were not well understood. If they were, someone should hang their head in shame!!
Governor of NY killed the elders as did in CA
Yes it has failed
They didnt.
The rest of the world failed but sweden have managed to keep a society open and excess deaths havent been as bad. People looks at deaths per capita and even a retarded human would know you cant do that under a pandemic since there isnt any reliable sources. You need to look at excess deaths and than sweden dont do as bad.
Of all the countries in the world, Japan and Sweden responses have been the absolute best, along with Taiwan and african countries. Sweden looked at the possibility that this disease may be part of our lifetimes, so unlike almost every other country that implemented useless lockdowns to stop a virus, they alreasy planned how to live with it. They knew a vaccine would take some time. The only fail they did was putting the eldery in nursing homes, but other than that, their response, alongside with Japan, was the most intelignt. Thats a reason why theyre called first world countries. And if you talk about deaths, considering they have around 5000 at the time theyre not having it as bad as the projections that suggested 5 million dearhs worldwide by June if you did nothing.
I am certain such brillant displays of patriotic self-congratulation will surely scare the virus away from Sweden !
Jose Franco Africa got advantage since most are young people, only disadvantage is the poor healthcare systems
Yes...!
USA: hold my beer
It's done as well as Ireland which had a lockdown of sorts.
Sweden's death rate per capita is 1.5 times higher than Ireland and still rising. Ireland did very badly but Sweden is a disaster.
@@seank9745 In deaths per million Sweden is 7th and Ireland 12th. So Ireland must be pretty disastrous - especially adding in the jobs lost and lives ruined.
Many European countries have said no more lockdowns. It makes sense as its unsustainable long term. So either the virus will come back in November and many other countries will have to go through the pain barrier or its not coming back. I'm convinced its the latter and let's all hope that is the case
Thouse old Swedish ppl did not want to close the society for them.... there time to go is anyway here....
If drastically comparable number of DEATHS Is the parameter...
Did Sweden became crazy?
Hmm did Sweden become crazy?
Let's see number of human rights taken away in Sweden= 0
Every other country with restrictions = many.
Its sad with all death and not good to make people to numbers but you need to do sometimes so if you check data.
In Sweden the first 4 month 2020, 1000 more people died then 2018, 2019 there was less death then many years back, less death make people one year older so statistic there should be little more then normal this year. Most of the almost 5000 people that have died of COVID-19 was old and sick and that's life that they died. There are country's that don't registrat death like Sweden and its to early to say that's was wrong way to go or not.
Norway have now no extra death 2020, death numbers are as normal there so Sweden have for the moment 100 more death per 1M then Norway compared to a normal year.
You are ignoring that deaths were on a downward trend and the government has evened out the death rate by allowing covid to flourish.That's cold, don't you have a grandmother?
I had a colleague that died, only 40 years old....
Sweden is average in Europe but is always compared with the two best countries. Instead, compare how many trips abroad Swedes made during the winter holiday, which is more relevant than the location in Scandinavia, for a virus. On a yearly basis, Swedes make 15 million trips abroad
UK had no patient zero. The virus came 1300 times over the border.
Sweden is the worst country in the world. The only one that chose to get rid of the elderly.
@@gregdenys7162 You are obious a troll or stupid. Please give atleast some source to your claim. Sweden has done alot better than many countries. We still in this pandemic so it could be that maybe sweden have done the best job in europe. People should look att excess deaths instead of deaths per capita since they will problably rise in the most countries.
czcams.com/video/QrcDXSIw4m8/video.html proof
Yeah they are just jeleous because they can't get rid the virus by acting normally like sweden. Majority who comment here are not from sweden but ironically from us where literally the epicentre of the virus
No.....nor has their economy....look around...other countries have greater fatalities.... with crashing economies...are you telling us everyone else are doing better?
Norway has done better.
@@notaviking6997 Sure...Nords have oil and gas...eat lots of fish and fermented food...so their vitamin D levels remain very high even with the low sun....hence better outcometo CV19..factor in lower density population per square kilometre...and your rate of infection and death remain lower than heavily populated parts of the world...but still their level of immunity is way below sweden.
Sweden's figures will seem unimpressive once other countries reach a 20% immunity...then we can start bragging about whose better or worse.
@@johncordey2769 The difference between Sweden and Norway is that Sweden has given a damn about the virus. While we in Norway from day one have taken the virus seriously, and fought against it. Because there are such large differences, Sweden 5821 died, per 100k 57.6 Norway 264 died, per 100k 4.9 I might mention that the infrastructure within infection control is not as well developed in Sweden as in Norway. In Norway, immunity is not an issue. We continue with the same strategy, infection tracking. We will not release a virus that we know very little about. So in Norway, we do not make predictions in the future.
I'm with Björn Olsen: We should've shut down, hard and fast one, and that would've saved us time.
This is what new Zealand did and they were one of the first to eliminate it and get back to normal
The virus isn't going to vanish...Sweden already has 30 % immunity...most other countries only 5% immunity...guess wat the overall figures will look like when every country is at 30 % immunity... it will make Sweden look much better than the one the media are trying to paint.
The only thing they failed about is to save the older people and that’s why there’s so many deaths
Just making room for the new population.
The different approaches from countries are debatable.. But the attitude of people I see here now can be summed up as: "here comes the sun, doo-doo-doo, its alright to get some possibly nasty virus we have no clue about doo-doo-doo"
Ah this time, we cannot figure out whether lockdown or give as much liberties as possible would be the best. Many countries such as Belgium had a very hard lockdown even more Spain ! but still they did suffer much more than Sweden.
Belgium, Spain and Italy had a hard lockdown BECAUSE the pandemic got explosive there, very early on, not the other way around ! And ultimately, they succeeded in slowing down the spread and fatalities.
Sweden had one more month to prepare and did nearly nothing. The spread is still accelerating there and fatalities still accrue.
@No No
Please let keep it serious :
- Belarus is a plain dictatorship ; thus the figures they give are best be considered with a huge lot of wariness ; furthermore, things don't work out that well in this country (disregarding the fact that belarussian gov may very well cheat it statistics)
- All african countries have very young populations (median age), thus, as a whole, they are much less vulnerable to covid 19 that ageing europeans.
@No No
Ok. take your pills and have a good rest...
Yeah, it did, but they served the mankind by becoming a cautionary tale.
@Crimson Wave It happens when someone doesn't wear your tinfoil hat.
@Crimson Wave www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
@Crimson Wave They have almost six times the deaths per million than the worst of their neighbour (Denmark, that has twice the population density).
And yes, US is not taken as an example of good Covid-19 management by anyone.
@Crimson Wave France Italy and Spain have 8 times the population density than Sweden, had been hit before, and crushed their curve anyway. As said, Sweden's situation could have been that of its neighbours. They chose to be hit 6 times worse.
@Crimson Wave For now is "6 times worse" and they are not even close to herd immunity.
It means that to Sweden's neighbours it will take at least 6 years to arrive to where Sweden is now in terms of deaths.
But, for then, Sweden will have moved further anyway.
They failed sadly
I like the speed analogy. Full speed no restrictions. Stop full lockdown. You can't go either speed so you can either go somewhere in the middle or keep fluctuating.
speedy lockdown and restrictions worked well in new zealand
@@68greg19 This comment aged poorly.
Not only has it not failed, it has succeeded.
Sweden 5776 died, Norway 257 died.
The worst thing is that in Skåne (where I live) I see so many danish people😞
Har it sett många danskar och bor ganska nära Malmö
Jag har sett fler nu än innan Corona
@@AmandaConocido Konstigt, är inte gränserna stängda?
Jag tror inte det men deras regering vill inte att dem ska åka hit
Short answer: yes
Long answer: video
Troll with no clue.
So many propaganda in comments.
The United States is so large and diverse. Many regions of the country ignored lock downs, masks, and social distancing. Many industries ignored all restrictions and continued working as, "essential" workers. People that have faith and destiny also ignored the virus. My entire family are some of the people listed above. We are waiting to see if Sweden's attempt at herd immunity has worked.
Then wait forever, cos that was never the strategy. If you still think so please provide link to scientific source (not Fox news) that states that Sweden has that strat.
Financial Lies - just check the statistics at who.it and compare it to other countries ;)
Sweden's extreme liberal approach has it's price.
Why interview that lady in a cemetery?
away with stefan löfven
"Swedish health care has handled this in a very good manner" - well if you consider giving morphine and sedatives instead of oxygen to force an euthanasia instead of saving lives a very good manner, then yes, that can be considered true. This is what has been done for anyone in a care home, who is either over 60 with any risk factor (even elevated blood pressure), or anyone of over 80 years of age. I believe most people will agree that this isn't a very good manner.
I also don't believe the Swedish strategy ever was even to try to block the disease. It was herd immunity. The measures have been all about flattening the curve, not about stopping the spread. Other European countries have taken the "hammer & dance approach" (except for Iceland, which had such a high test capacity from the start - which they also utilized - that they could just right away start with the dance part). It was just not really called herd immunity officially, although even I have seen some interviews where Tegnell keeps on talking about the effect of herd immunity slowing down the spread. It's not herd immunity, it's people freaking out and changing their behavior. That is why you see an asymmetrical graph of the people dying and why the amount of new cases is still not going down. The disease is now spreading more in the younger ones, who believe they're not harmed by the virus (that's not true, there's organ damage coming also to the young and fit).
... you really need to learn how to provide sources to back up your claims. Especially when you're talking about a controversial subject like that.
Source or gtfo!
@@bjoardar :D And what is your source that states I have to do that?
@@fintux Uuh, I don't know ... what about that thing called *"credibility"?* That still qualifies as important, right?
@@bjoardar well tell me what were the parts you don't believe. Most of it is just a one-minute googling away anyways. I think I actually do post more sources than the average person does, but not for every. single. post. It gets tiring quite quickly...
@@fintux Rather than what I believe or not, how is it that *YOU* believe something that you won't provide sources to?
"Everything you read on the internet is true." - Abraham Lincoln 1654 - 1812
Please come back in a year! I believe that Sweden will maintain a life expectancy that is higher than neighboring countries, even Norway.
not if you do your math with your upcoming numbers
U can tell that to the families of 4939 people who died.
@@68greg19 Upcoming numbers of what? In refnrence to what?
@@ValdimarHelg en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law
@@ValdimarHelg Godwin's law in its purest form. Congratulations for an argument well said.
This report is one-sided.
The sad irony of the Swedish governments approach is that many swedes still followed what other European countries were doing in the context of lockdown. They were self isolating, working from home and following a regime of self imposed personal protection. In other words ignoring the laissez fair attitude of its own government. When enough people have more common sense and a strong sense of self preservation, than its own government, it’s time to wonder just what kind of government the swedes have elected. It beggars belief.
What a silly reply! Our government asked us, The Swedish People, to help with this pandemic. And we did. We sided with our countrymen. We are Sweden, we stand togtether!
So what is it the Swedish government knows that the rest of Europe and indeed the world doesn’t? Just because you stand with your government it doesn’t make them right does it? You think the virus respects borders?
@@juliancoulden1753 Any government should serve the people, and try to do what is right for them. The Swedish is trying to do that, with the help of science. I find that to be a proper way to serve the people of Sweden.
@@juliancoulden1753 The virus does not respect borders. Leaders of countries are scared. In Sweden we follow science, and I like that.
sweden : no lockdown barely restrictions new zealand : immediate lockdown strong restrictions
sweden : some herd immunity new zealand : barely herd immunity
I guess the swedes are right !
Lol majority here who comment ironically coming from usa where literally the epicentre of the virus and hundred thousand death.
This speech, it's just political speech, games for the gallery. Such political speeches have not been held in Norway or Denmark. There they have acted, acted in time and saved lives!
Sweden did the right move
No it didn't failed because Sweden population is already the most microchipped population.
🤥🤥🤥
"not to lockdown" implies a passive approach far from what Sweden actually did. Sweden actually has a "lock down" but with measures differrent from other countries not protesting in the streets. The pandemic is far from over. Normal pandemic curves indicate that when the peek is reached (without other measures) a quarter to a fifth of the total deaths are accumulated. It remains to be seen where countries are on that, by different measures, affected curve. The "one of the highest death tolls" is sure to be revisited.
The "measures" Sweden took amounted to nearly nothing compared to their neighbours or continental Europe.
The poor results of this "do nothing" policy are starting to show.
@@elbentos7803 Yes. All correctly measured numbers pointing down. pandemic follows same pattern as in other many countries but most noiceably also historical virus onslaught patterns. The isolated parts of the world have just postpones it. Different strategies. (on a side note - heat blooms in USA has historically killed more people because of the isolation than to the heat. Society as a whole must be incorporated, not just bad statistics)
@Virtue Signalling sic Has any country?
@@Coastaljaeger
Indeed, death rate slows down in Sweden as well, but at a much_ slower_ rate than in Europe or even in UK.
The profile of global mortality in various european countries is just similar : there is a peak of mortality in march or april, then over-mortality goes down as quickly as it appeared.
Sweden is an exception in both indicators : disease fatalities and over-mortality appeared later (late april), reached a maximum in May but deacreased only very slowly afterwards, as opposed to continental Europe but similarly to profiles observed in USA, UK or Brazil.
@@elbentos7803 Neighbouring countries hasn't even started their epidemic yet.
Sweden has the same goals as other countries. But, unfortunately, Sweden is doing differently than other countries, Sweden is completely wrong and he has to lie.
@UCsMlqkHSRu409jhXBV48twg I don't need the Twitter, to know something what is obvious! I am living in Sweden and unfortunately I can see that Swedish "strategy" is so wrong, so ineffective. This speech, it's just political speech, games for the gallery. Such political speeches have not been held in Norway or Denmark. There they have acted, acted in time and saved lives!