Railroading on the Tehachapi: A History of the Loop
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- čas přidán 27. 01. 2020
- It's easy to lose track of and even become bored with videos of trains going around the Tehachapi Loop. Much has also been written and said about the fact that is is an engineering marvel but I wanted to do something a little different.
What you don't see or hear a lot about is why it is here...I mean in this location. Why wasn't it built elsewhere? Why was it necessary? Wasn't there some other place the tracks could have gone and what about the kid and the mule?
I will touch on all that in the video so, join me for a history and explanation of the Tehachapi Loop.
LOOP GPS 35d 12'04"N 118d 32'10'W
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LOOP SHOT FROM ATOP TUNNEL 9 • Railroading on the Teh...
I grew up in East Bakersfield, two blocks north of the old Southern Pacific Switch Yard, (about 30 miles West of the Tehachapi loop), and worked in the Tehachapi mountains. I have meet people form all around the world who came to this spot just to see the Tehachapi Loop in person.
Back in the SP days people would camp at the Loop and that was their vacation! I too met people from all over up there.
Thanks for checking it out!
@@MarkClayMcGowan is it frowned upon now for people to go camp up there at the loop now? I’d love to take my father in law if so. He’s a train fanatic and I’m sure he knows about the loop. Just wanted to take him there because it’s starting to become interesting to me.
That was really cool Mark. You did an awesome presentation on the history of the Tehachapi Loop. It was great. That train came at pretty much the right time. We really enjoyed it. Thanks 👍👍👍❤️
Williams loop is another one that crosses over within a train length.
Great stuff
Great to learn some of the history - I'm going to visit the loop in the next week so thanks very much for this!
Fantastic Job of the Tehachapi Loop
Love , love , love video great history lesson.
I just recently watched some videos take place at this loop, and yeah, I was wondering why it was this way. This explains it very well, good video!
Very interesting .
i grew up in southern and northern California and lived there on and off fo thirty years and amazingly enough have never seen this loop or even driven on the highway next to it . i've been almost very place else in Calif.but never there . i was kind of shocked when i first saw your video. thanks
Like most feats of engineering - the loop makes good sense! Thank you for the great explanation :)
Great info on the LOOP, thanks.
Another great video Mark, especially with the train coming uphill with locomotives maintaining the 23 MPH speed limit. Saw it once in the 1980's during a Santa Fe Convention in Bakersfield but no train on loop as MOW had the hill shutdown but did get to see a set of Warbonnets blast a freight out of Bena. Keep them coming when you can afford the high priced fuel.
They still let you wander near the tracks after passing in the gear and keys and the truck to say “ thanks for the memories” and not ever likely to visit the offices again. That’s cool if so and the history lesson is a plus Sir. Thanks and will always look for more...
No one really cares. They know I have no axes to grind and it's good PR. Besides, I still have a vest and a hardhat if I feel the need to use them, which so far I haven't!
Thanks for that info. I figured that was the reason for the loop. Pretty cool.
Great history lesson!
Great information. I need to get out to Tehachapi some day. I just don't seem to be able to take enough time for railfanning - so I appreciate being able to go virtually with your videos.
Fantastic. I've only seen the loop once in my life (2004?) but it blew me away. I enjoy your videos as always. Please keep them coming.
Thank you! Definitely more to come! Stay tuned!
Very Interesting! That’s quite a struggle for any train going uphill. 💪
Love the videos. I live near the Horseshoe Curve. A Mountain cross Loop here in Pennsylvania. Built in 1857
I've seen photos and footage of that. Very nice scenery!
Thanks for checking it out!
Great tour today. Thanks for the learning lesson. :-)
Thanks for the translation in your video! I'm Brazilian and not found information about this loop, but you killed my curiosity.
Glad to be of help! I hope you are able to enjoy it in person someday. Thanks for checking it out!
fabulous video.
Another great video Mark. I enjoy the California topography.
Great information! Thanks for sharing! I recently did a video of this area. Thanks again.
Very interesting geographical and historical facts and informations about the loop, thank you. Warm greetings from Germany! [*subscribed & liked*]
I'm glad you enjoyed it and thank you for subscribing!
Good Stuff MCM
That is very cool how they built it and the engineering it took.
Especially for it's day. Thanks for checking it out!
I would love to visit that area 🚂
I love your train videos ❤️
Thank you! It's a very cool place to watch trains!
The loop was named after W. A. Long he was a district roadmaster for the Southern Pacific railroad. They shortened it to read Walong. I really like all your efforts in the videos. Having worked this district , you know where is safe to film and I like the up close shots we got on this video of the train on the loop. Keep it up . I know there must be more history to come. Thanks
Plenty more to come. Stay tuned!
Fantastic video. I see they have extended The Wailing siding. As you go down into the loop, I've often wondered why is it that they don't just double track the whole thing? There's certainly enough traffic to Warrant it And with Intermodal trains getting longer and longer, it seems to make sense.
It is now double track to Marcel. Above that would require daylighting four tunnels which would have a huge impact running trains. Below the loop is a very long deep cut, two bridges and two 180 curves. The ledge between the freeway and the creek isn't very wide either. Then there are the environmentalists. And the cost.
It would be great but the roads won't do it any time soon.
Thanks for the comments and for checking it out!
My nana lived right across the tracks in Caliente. I believe her house is still standing. It used to be a small motel with a bar and the railroad guys would stay there
thats awesome..the old days are gone
Yes, it's still there. It is now a private residence. When I shot the piece about Caliente, the gal came out and asked what I was doing. She was rude as hell at first, but calmed down when I explained myself.
Thanks for the info
Williams Loop in Spring Garden, California,crosses over itself and with a long enough train it too can cross over its own train. It is quite large with an elevation of 1%, and was built by the Western Pacific in 1914. Then you have the double spiral tunnels in Canada that are inside rock which is very unusual. I think they are one atop the other. And you have spiral tunnels in Switzerland that are complete circles running over themselves. Still like the history of Tehachapi. Have been there twice to witness trains going around the loop. Longest train I ever saw was 6900 feet long with one manned pusher on the rear. I always wanted to model this area but never found a building large enough to house it. I think it would be amazing to sit in the engine cab and watch your own train following you uphill. I read years ago in some train publication there is over 8800 degrees of curvature from Clilete to the top at Tehachapi. Another great video as always.
Shot from below, here is cool video of a very long UP winding it's way up onto the Loop. czcams.com/video/3ojynZ1XgFQ/video.html
Good video man
I enjoyed your video
Fantastic
Amazing
Thanks Mark for that comprehensive oral & visual explanation of the Loop. I'm a retired practical arty 'train head' type.. in awe of what engineers have accomplished; & this colossal engineering feat is truly incredible. I only wish I had taken the time to visit it in my travels in the U.S years ago. Thanks & good wishes from Portugal. I would be also most greatfull if someone could enlighten me as to the origins of the word 'Tehachapi'. Obrigado!
Thank you so much! I love hearing from viewers and subscribers from abroad! It's very humbling! The name comes from a farmer who found a hen nesting in his garden on a row of peas. When he asked what she was doing, she replied "I'm trying To Hatch a Pea...UGH! I know! Actually, Father Francisco Garces is considered to be the first white man to explore the area in 1776. His Yuma Indian guides brought him through this valley crossing from the desert to the central valley along an Indian trading route. They called it "Ta-hacha-Pah-Na" which translated loosely to "The place where the people of the acorns lived" as it was, and still is, full of giant oak trees.
I hope that helps.
@@MarkClayMcGowan Thanks Mark for that info....& Now I can even pronounce the word correctly: Te..Hachapi! We have nothing like that here in Portugal, whose small but perfectly formed freight & rail network runs really well; cheaply & on time...Unlike my experiences with Amtrak there, when i remember being 6 hours late in the schlepp from Chicago to New Orleans. Thanks again & good health to you.
More great work form someone who worked there...thanks Mark! I have two loops on my layout and modellers use them alot as we are limited with space! I travelled from Australia to see the Loop and I'll be back soon , it's that iconic I feel ? Williams Loop is nice too , but it's no Tehachapi..LOL. Looking up the Pass from Caliente and other spots , it's hard to believe trains gain that much elevation in such a short distance..relatively. Looking forward to more of these on the Pass.
Cheers Gregg.
Thanks! Don't forget to let me know when you're going to be here. I'll show you some cool stuff!
Thanks for the compliment and for checking it out. Don't forget to let me know when you're going to be here. I'll show you some very cool places!
@@MarkClayMcGowan You're welcome Sir! I will for sure Mark! . It will be later this year or early 2121?
Cheers Gregg.
@@FishplateFilms I'll be around!
Muito bom saber um pouco da história desse loop, não imaginava que fosse tão antigo. Acho que esse loop é um dos mais famosos do mundo para quem curte assunto ferroviário/locomotivas! Obrigado pelas informações.
My Portuguese is WEAK, but I think my reply should be "Yes, it is quite old and world famous, and would be good to ride a locomotive around?" Let me know if I'm even close! Thanks for checking it out!
After visiting Tehachapi loop in Novmber of 1990 I purchased a copy of John R. Signor book Tehachapi, Southern Pacific - Santa Fe at the Laws Railroad Museum. Great book on the history of the building and operation of the line over the Tehachapi pass. It was recommended to me by a Southern Pacific conductor that I met at Mojave Yard.
I've had my copy since 1986 and I bought it at a museum in Galveston, Texas! I now have many of his books and have interacted with him a few times. His archives are amazing!
Video molto interessante !!!
Great Video, I've just been watch video on the Williams loop in northern california, in NZ we only have one spiral, in the NIMTL I'm not sure what the grade is but it is steep! thanks for sharing
Interesting!
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it!
Nice video Mark, I really look forward to these. You're able to fill in details on SoCal rail lines that I've been aware of all my life but never knew the history behind them. I have thoughts on two other lines that might be worthy of your attention. One is the SP Coast line, a few hundred yards from my home in Carpinteria (close enough to rattle the wine bottles on my refrigerator when a heavy train goes by). I'm curious if you know anything about its history, and how it's used today (not much it seems - mostly Amtrak). UP seems to keep it all well maintained, I do see UP MOW pickup trucks from time to time, and work trains once in a while, but very little freight, I'm not even sure the venerable "oil cans" train still runs. Another area I've wondered about is Searles Station, going to Death Valley over the decades I've crossed those tracks seemingly in the middle of nowhere many times. Come to think of it, another legacy SP line (I think - it isn't legacy UP) I've wondered about is west of Parker, AZ. There's quite a bit of rail out there (Rice, Vidal Junction, near CA 62) that's always been a mystery to me.
I'm glad you enjoy them! As to the coast line. I'm not familiar with its history but it is a class 1 mainline and thus had to be upgraded to PTC. The federal government helps subsidize the line because Amtrak uses it. Freight uses what's called the I-5 Corridor which runs from Colton to Roseville. Except in unusual cases such as a problem in the valley, only local freight runs on the coast line.
The tracks around Parker are the BNSF line to Phoenix that leaves the I-40 grade at Cadiz.
If you saw my piece on the Owenyo/Lone Pine Branch it has a small segment on Searles. I am going to do a piece on Searles itself as well as the Trona Rwy which connects to the Lone Pine at Searles.
It is currently the end of the branch but it once went to Lone Pine. I will also do a piece on the abandoned section of that branch.
I hope that cleared it up a bit.
Thanks for checking it out!
@@MarkClayMcGowan Thanks for the info. Yup, oilcans and the "Guadaloupe hauler" and the occasional southbound strings of empty double stack flatcars are all that I've seen on the Coast Line except for Amtrak for many years now. Once in a while a train of southbound auto carriers, empty I think. It does serve as insurance against the I-5 line I suppose, especially seeing as how both lines cross the San Andreas fault, otherwise I'd think UP would abandon it. SP tried to sell the entire line to Metrolink (or some other predecessor passenger rail agency) supposedly back in the 90's. Having the feds pay for MOW probably helps rationalize it too. Thanks for clarifying about the legacy Santa Fe rail out by Parker. Looking forward to learning about Searles and the Lone Pine line.
I Saw the Southern Pacific and the Santa Fe in the 1990s with my late Dad Steve Schmollinger on Tehachapi Loop and Tehachapi is my all time favorite Railfan Location in the United States 🇺🇸
Have you ever seen Horseshoe Curve in Altoona PA.? I went there hoping to see a few trains and my God they just kept coming and coming. It's an impressive thing to see.
Not in person. Just footage and photographs. It is impressive!
I have a playlist of all the 180° curves on the Tehachapi too.
Thanks for checking it out!
That was pretty cool to see that train climbed up from the valley .I remember my first time at the PRR Horseshoe Curve in Pennsylvania was awe- inspiring . To think of the engineering that went into building these marvels .Thanks for sharing ,
My pleasure! I'm glad you enjoyed it. Stay tuned because there's more to come!
Thanks for the compliment and for checking it out!
Loved the narration, if I ever get chance to trainspotting as I'm from australia tehachapi would be on the list another I think canada Cisco bridges where train hugs river goes through mountain Terrain then over series of bridges they call the Cisco bridges.
Well, if you ever make it up here, let me know. I'll hook you up with a great tour of the area..and no, I do NOT charge people to do it! Thanks for checking it out!
Great video, thanks for sharing. Would you happen to know - what is the frog number for the west and (now gone) east Walong siding switches? From aerial pics I'm guessing maybe #14 or #15, tho it's a hard to tell.
Thanks for the compliment. No, I didn't know that stuff unless a track guy mentioned it while we were doing something at a frog. West Walong is still there, it's the east end that went away. Other than the switches at Bena and Cable, the frogs on the mountain were standardized (so I was told) when UP took over. I'll look next time I'm up there.
Thanks for checking it out!
Nice video. I wish you could give a rookie like myself though great locations where I can take pictures of the trains as noted there is a lot of area on the loop. Just wanted advise on spots that are easy to get to & of course done without trespassing!
If you're going to be in the area let me know.
@@MarkClayMcGowan Thank yo I've always dreamed of checking this area out though needless to say it's so large & broad in scope difficult to find a location without offending locals which I've been told! Don't want to get into any trouble. I'm targeting next chance November or maybe March next year.
Not the only one. CP RAIL has one as well. In BC called the spiral tunnels
CPRail's Spiral Tunnels (near Field, BC) are amazing! not one but 2 loops, both as tunnels bored inside mountains flanking the Kicking Horse Pass in 19o9. it doubled the length of that section of track from 4.1 to 8.2 miles & reduced the gradient from the 4.5% of "The Big Hill" that preceded it to its current 2.2%. this kind of grade reduction is standard procedure in Switzerland but there's nothing else like the Spiral Tunnels in North America.
I didn't say it was the only one, I said it was the first. There are actually quite a few around the world now.
Great video, For a line as crucial as this for BNSF to get to Northern California from their southern transcon there have been times I've railfanned the Loop and have gone hours without seeing a freight train. It seems BNSF utilizes this line more than the track owner UP. I wonder if UP still has a lot of traffic on the Palmdale cutoff.
BNSF does run more trains over the mountain but UP isn't far behind it's just many of their trains cross this sub at night.
With very few exceptions UP runs all their trains over the cutoff. Speaking of the cutoff, I was hired in 1979 to install the CTC on it to the top of Cajon Pass. The LA division took over into Colton.
Thanks for the comment and for checking out my channel!
Also, if you were fanning on a Monday they used to give out maintenance windows on Mondays and hold trains until late afternoon. That is no longer common practice. Weekends can also be a bit more scarce.
Nice video! Could you possibly explain why Santa Fe acquired trackage rights over Tehachapi Pass. I heard that they originally wanted to build their own line, but they realized that it was more cost effective to make a deal wirh the SP and use their tracks. It seems that you would have more insight on this subject. Thanks again for your perspective on this bit of history!
Thanks! I hit that briefly in this video, but you're right, I need to do one dedicated to that history. Thanks for the idea and for checking it out!
czcams.com/video/CfzODnD_BT8/video.html
The Hiawassee loop on the L&N old line in SE Tennessee is another true loop.
Is there a regular schedule for the trains coming through the loop? Which tunnel is the longest/shortest?
No. There are no longer any scheduled trains over the mountain.
The longest tunnel is #5 at 1175 ft. Tunnels 16 and 17 are 259 feet.
If you are subscribed you can go find the two part video I did on the history of the tunnels on the mountain, even the ones that are no longer there.
Thanks for checking out my channel!
At 23 mph you avoid a situation of the freight cars starting “dynamic rocking” which begins at around 16-19 mph. Most train engineers really try to avoid sustained speeds at that range. 23 mph is the maximum speed for safety. You DO NOT want an accident to bottle up this main line.
Mark, the last time I was at the loop I noticed UP had put a gate on the dirt road that gave access to the loop, and people came for a couple days with campers and parked on the little hill just east of the east end of Walong. The gate was always open, do they mind if railfans come in like they used to? I never see anyone else in there.
You can still get up there. Just stay off the Loop Ranch!
AH YES TEHACHAPI LOOP ! SP DIRT TEST DONOT REMOVE ! SORRY UP WE AINT DEAD YET ! SP LIVES ! WHAT'S UP MARK ! GREAT VIDEO AS USUAL !
Do you have any idea as to how long those trains that went around the loop are?
most trains crossing the Tehachapi these days are 1 to 1.5 miles in length.
FYI: a train will cross over itself 77 feet higher, or lower, depending on its direction.
Is there a camber to the rails going up the loop? That is, does the trail tilt out, stay level, or tilt in towards the loop? We understand the conical shape of the wheels. but it seems there is the possibility that pulling a car from about 3 ft above the rails would form a couple tending to overturn the train. I imagine the high pulling force (did you say 2% grade?) combined with a tight radius would push thing to the limit. Do the rails need to be reversed/replaced more often on the grade?
Thanks.
Although "stringlining" is a common occurrence on the Tehachapi, I've never seen it happen at the Loop.
A formula is used to make up trains and to decide if, where and how many helpers should be pushing.
The rails are slightly canted.
Thanks for checking it out!
And yes, the rail does wear more quickly in graded and curved territory. Before the common use of continuously welded rail, there was a gang in Tehachapi that transposed rail every day.
Today's heavier and better secured rail lasts longer.
Thanks for checking it out!
Mark, What is the greatest grade in the loop and over Tehachapi pass?
2.91%, between Caliente and Bealville. The ruling grade from Bakersfield to Tehachapi is 2.23%.
Nice video...thanks. Wonder how people can live there is those houses...continuous thunder by diesels making noise and pollution. But the loop is truly great engineering achievement. Is the gradient 2,2%?
Right around the loop is right at 2%. 77 feet in 3,774 feet.
Do you know what speed the train is traveling through this loop?
The maximum speed in this area is 23mph in both directions. I don't know how fast this particular train was going, but I assure you, it was no faster than that.
I see tunnel no 10 has been daylighted. When was this done?
It's still there. When they double tracked from Walong to Marcel, the excavated around 10 for the new track. Here is a video there.
czcams.com/video/dpoRBfqnMa4/video.html
there is a loop in the North Island in New Zealand
Did they really have just picks and shovels to dig it out. That seems ridiculous. It is a marvel in its self and cool to see the old pictures as well. The grade seems easy for the trains so is it also 3% at that location? I model trains and long curves turn me on big time.
The entire grade was done with man and horse/mule power. They used dynamite but everything else was hand tools, carts and some horse drawn scrapers where they could get them in. I think that's under 3% out of Caliente. It's 3% in a few places and 3.2 between Marcel and Cable.
@@MarkClayMcGowan It's amazing it was done with man, horse and mule. How people would work back then . Hats off to all those men toiling like that. Really like your videos of everything you have posted of that area. Thanks so much.
A grade
Engineers consider several factors in design of a track grade. Grade is seldom, if ever, absolutely uniform for a long distance. Grade is "compensated" or reduced a little on long curves (like Walking). A curve introduces more friction, so compensate friction of a curve by reducing the grade 0.2% or so.
Balancing cut and fill material van play a part in reducing the cost of haulage and construction cost.
How gutsy is the strongest loco in the stable? If Mechanicals finest loco can't horse the Ops desired tonnage over the Engineer:s great and marvelous track plant, Management will come looking: for a GOAT.
I bet the engineers see a lot of people in that area videoing them. My wife and I drove from Phoenix to San Fran on 58, we weren't able to stop but we were able to see the loop as we drove by!
It's cool to watch trains go around it and it's history is undeniable. I hope you get to check it out sometime!
There actually arent a lot of people who shoot in that area. The ranchers know me and as a former employee the RR isn't going to hassle me.
Did BNSF help pay for the track 2 extension?
I can't say for sure but I imagine they would have
Another one that does cross over itself I believe is in Europe and is on a concrete elevated grade. I think it's possible they barrowed the Idea from the one in your video. There's is a in steeper country. If it works use it.😁
There are actually a few of them around now. The CN has a double loop on their line. Tehachapi was just the first, and by decades.
At 77 feet in 4000 ft that is just under 2%. That is pretty steep for train operations.
It’s a pity that you didn’t show where you were in relation to the video shown at the start imo.☘️👍
I was in a few different places. The memorial bench and plaque are near where the track crosses over itself.
could you comment on the operational difficulties that both the UP/SP and the BNSF have with train derails between Tehachapi and Bakersfield with the trains breaking in two and derailing?
While broken knuckles still happen they aren't as common these days. BNSF keeps what is called a "rapid responder" on duty 24/7 to assist with any problems that stop a train.
With modern locomotive and wayside detetector technology (see my video on hotbox and high wide detectors) derailments are also less common than they used to be but they do still happen as well.
If they happen on double track or between switches of a siding, trains can generally move while they're cleaning up but, as with the recent ones at Woodford and above Caliente, when on single main it does present a problem. They usually have trains running in some fashion within 24 hours though.
I hope that answered your questions satisfactorily.
Thanks for checking it out!
@@MarkClayMcGowan Thank you I/WE appreciate the effort that you put into the educational videos!
Well told joke
What's that supposed to mean?
I have no idea why I watched this
But it was a complete disappoint for 16 minuets.
Well, you can rest easy now knowing you don't have to watch any more of my videos! And you could, at least, finish your words. Also, you either need a comma after "this", which would enable you to remove the conjunction "but", or keep "but" without the capital letter and forget the comma.
No wonder you don't enjoy my educational stuff!
What's the benefit.. well not just straight..??...
The terrain makes it impossible to maintain an acceptable grade (under 3%) up the mountain. The Loop gains 77 feet elevation in 4,000 feet of track. Another route was surveyed straight across the canyon at 2%, but it would have required a 2,500 foot viaduct that would have taken another year to build and cost many times the price of the loop. Then there would have been bridge maintenance costs over time. This was a much better idea from every angle. Thanks for checking it out!
Who lives in those houses? Each train takes an AGE to clear so the noise must be unrelenting.
It's the Loop Ranch. One family lives there. I guess they're used it!
Thanks for checking it out!
@@MarkClayMcGowan They have my sympathy! I love trains but I couldn't live with that noise!
It not bad, most train crew bunkhouses are only built about 100 ft off the maintrack
Thanks..I was there 20 years ago and will be the in early NOV 2022..I have a video from 20 years ago i need to upload to channel along with new one..