Buying the Taildragger I came close to seriously crashing. '39 Aeronca Chief
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- čas přidán 29. 06. 2024
- * CORRECTION When I say "It's like pushing a shopping cart from the back, I mean pushing it from the front, lol" Hopefully that makes sense.
When a good friend asked me to go flying with him in his recently acquired '39 Chief, I didn't expect the first landing attempt to end with us ground looping it and ending up within a few feet of disaster. After that mishap, this airplane sat tucked away in the hangar for a few years until a few friends and I decided to buy it. I have flown all around the world, in multiple types, and have experienced emergencies in airliners, but this little taildragger gave me quite a bit of anxiety once I got back in it. After a few hours in the logbook, I'm starting to get the hang of it! The Chief is not as easy to master as the Cub, but I'm going to try. It's a 2013 Lindy winner and truly a beautiful airplane. It's nice to have it back flying again.
A few Unique things about this Chief, it's won an award at Oshkosh in 2013, it is a Pre-War Chief, it has a really unique instrument panel and has an "up exhaust", which gives it a pretty unique engine note.
0:00 Into
00:25 The Dreaded Ground Loop
3:22 My Perspective on Buying it.
7:00 A few things different about the Chief
11:43 Hand Propping the Chief
13:34 First Takeoff in the Chief !
14:40 First Landing in the Chief
19:43 A few Final comments - Auta a dopravní prostředky
15 years ago I told myself I was going to get my private, but never did. I'm still in the hopes of one day obtaining my license. In the main time I'll keep watching your video for inspiration 😉👍🏽.
Never too late. Was in the same boat. Watching a dream of mine slip by me. 20 years later from when I first started I finished and got my license. I kick myself for not doing sooner. So don’t let another day slip by. Get on it
I’m a 60 yo… when I was 20 I took some lessons and soloed but never finished up… when I was 30 I bought an ultralight and flew out of my backyard for a few years…. I always wanted to be a competent tail wheel pilot… 8 months ago I bought a champ… a few months later I bought a Murphy biplane… I have mastered them so far… still have lots to learn though. 😂
that's awesome. I REALLY REALLY want an Ultralight. something like a QuickSilver has always been a dream
@@Bananassssssssscome fly powered parachutes with me
Took me seven years. Totally worth it. Just make it happen bro!
Joe, you kept it real. You are awesome for sharing your real feelings. Many people’s egos won’t let them do that. -Steve
Thanks Steve!
Love all, you do to present vintage aviation! Fun planes to fly and make you a better pilot.
Enjoyed seeing the clip with the infamous (and oft maligned), Shinn wheel and brake. They were designed by my grandfather and manufactured by his company, Shinn Devices, at the (now) Pittsburgh-Butler Regional Airport (where C. G. Taylor manufactured his Taylorcraft planes). The Shinn wheels were ubiquitous on Taylorcraft, Aeronca and Luscombe planes of the era. (Shinn Devices was sold to Goodyear in the 1940’s, so you will also see the same wheels with the “Goodyear” stamp.) Byron was never a pilot, but my dad and his brothers were bitten by the bug hanging around the Taylor kids and all became pilots. My dad passed his love of the old and fun plan to me and my brother.
Thanks for the info! pretty cool history.
Excellent discussion that led into the mantra “complacency kills”. Never let your guard down, always strive to improve your skills, SA, response time. Enjoy the new whip!
Thanks!
Thank you for your lessons!
It takes more courage to say you are afraid of something than to bluff!
An accident can happen quickly no matter how well and how quickly you react, maybe this normal fear keeps you sharp!
Even very experienced people in all professions make mistakes, all military pilots debrief about their experiences good or bad.
Thanks Joe, having soloed a tandem champ on grass as a teen, paved runways gave me the same gi symptoms, especially seeing another student fold the gear during a g-loop. Love the chief looks though I've never flown one, but your videos stir a lot of great memories!
Thanks!
It's really nice to see a candid opening up of a pilot ( especially a professional pilot with high time )in regards to concerns and their feelings from a incident where the plane doesn't always follow their intended course of action. This is a very positive attitude to take in flying and I applaud it. Well done Joe !!!!
I saw the advice on checking toe in and toe out which was great advice, I have also experienced a bit of brake dragging from the pad or caliber not releasing fully. I know you and your mechanic know this stuff, I reckon I am just in the " hey, check for this " ( kinda like hangar flying but in a mechanical regard---ha !!! ) Hey, you can always come back and say, "oh, you know what, it was the brake pad or toe in/out ", even if it wasn't , --ha, just kidding !!! --
Thanks for the great video, and for me, a video on what transpires on the airline annual proficiency review would be very interesting !
Thanks!, appreciate that. Going to check on the Toe in for sure. Appreciate it!
My dad was my CFI, early on I told him I was always just slightly scared when going flying. I love it but there is a slight anxiety there... He said "good, thats what will keep you alive"... I love flying, but got to respect it.
You can stop the throttle stumbling during the winter months by unscrewing the Stromberg idle mixture control screw 1/2 turn to enrichen the mixture (cold air makes it lean), screw it back 1/2 turn in the spring. It's a knurled screw so you can turn it by hand. Backside of your carb, points down at about a 45 degree angle.
Thank you! Going to do this end of next week when I get back. Appreciate it
Incredible video and good life lesson. Perfect channel for flight lessons and tips Joe! nice looking plane too!
Thanks!
Capt. Joe, Please check the toe-in and toe-out on the main wheels to ensure its within factory specs. I had a similar issue with my tail dragger and this fixed the squirlyness issue for good. Safe flying anf thank you for sharing your excellent videos.
Thanks for the tip! will Check it out for sure. I think part of it is I've gotten so spoiled with the Cub, lol.
Great video, Joe... I'm restoring a 1941 65CA Chief and can not wait to get it up in the air. There aren't too many videos on pre-war Chiefs. Appreciate the critique on the differences between the this and the J3 Cub - that's my reference aircraft too... Cheers!
Thanks! How far along are you?
@@Bananasssssssss So uncanny... We both fly a J3 Cub and then decided to restore/puchase a Prewar Chief... I should be done with my A75 engine rebuild in a month
Another great video and great flying from the King of Slips!
Thanks!
The Chief is a great taildragger to learn on. It's a little short coupled and makes you pay attention a little more.
Hey Joe, love your videos, I did my Tailwheel endorsement in an L4 in French army colours, and I fly a Mk I Kitfox so have experienced a couple of ground loops! 😆I have got some good tips from your videos, so keep up the good work and keep them coming 👍 best wishes from Somerset in England UK
Thank you!
Ahh, thanks for this video. I enjoyed hearing you report that the Chief is a little squirrely! 😂 I recently bought a 41 and have been loving it! But it has taken me a bit to get comfortable in her. Looking forward to your Chief/Cub comparison.
Always enjoy your videos.....Thanks Joe.
Glad you like them!
Hey Joe, really enjoying these videos. Appreciate the candid review of the ground-loop too. Learned how to fly and soloed in a 46 Champ and had my share of close calls. If it makes you feel any better, I asked an old warbird pilot that flew with the CAF in my glider club what the most challenging airplane was he had ever flown and he said the chief. That coming from someone with hundreds of hours in all manner of TW warbirds.
Thank you! Appreciate it
What is the longitunal wheelbase on the Chief? Longer planes seem less squirrels, eg 185 vs 140 cessna
Joe, great video as always. I have always wanted to snag a chief. Almost did a few different times, but passed for various reasons. I fly a J3 like yourself. I also do lots of tailwheel endorsements and transition training.
Back in 2020 myself and 9 other pilots formed a flying club and bought an aeronca champ 7AC. We were all J3 pilots of various skill levels. Myself and another CFI had the task of getting everyone 10 hrs dual to meet insurance requirements. Most guys took a bit longer as the Champ was just a bit too different than the cub. I believe the chief is in the same boat.
I found for new champ pilots they were easier to 3 point land with the oleo gear, but harder to wheel land than a cub. Also the cub has significantly better yaw stability in flight than a champ/chief. You saw this with your comment about keeping the ball centered with the chief. Eventually you get a feel for it. Our champ was also fast and would easily cruise at 95. We could do 105 but it was placarded to stay below 95 in level flight.
I made a video for our club members during this transition training time to go over takeoffs and landings. My film skills are not as good as yours, but this may be helpful as you work on getting comfortable in the chief.
czcams.com/video/kCyqgatSeUw/video.htmlsi=9DVnuIFiYKCazfrL
Thank you! and Great Video!. I always liked the visibility of the Champ compared to Cub/Chief
Excellent video again!! Thanks for your effort.
Thank you!
Great video,and beautiful plane! I'm excited that you've heard of "Luscomb" airplanes because pretty much anybody I've ever mentioned them to has no idea about them. My grandfather had one, a taildragger, single prop, two seater.
Thanks for the ride Joe!
You bet!
Oh my gosh! It's an absolutely beautiful airplane!!! 😍
It really is pretty elegant looking!
Good stuff, Joe! I like a blast of power and opposite rudder in a Chief should it wander.(wide fuse blocks airflow over the rudder)
Glad you survived the ground loop monster!! Definitely not a good situation to get into to say the least. Also, those power lines coming into Allen’s on short final make the hair on my neck stand up!! 😬
Another great video and such a beautiful little plane!
Thank you!, more to come!
This is funny to me, 45 or more years ago, I was with my instructor and he let me go for my first solo flight. I was in a 47 ac. On my first approach on final I could see my instructor watching me. On my second approach to final I could see my instructor talking to a guy next to a chief. On my third approach my instructor and the chief were gone. Next time I was on final there was the chief off to the side of the runway with the left landing gear ripped off. I came to a full stop this time and went to talk to my instructor, he had gone up to help a new owner of the chief ,who was having a little problem with ground looping. Well the guy ground looped again but the instructor didn’t have brakes to help him.
tough little plane to master
All those old asbestos brakes is what got my grandpa in the end. Between being an airplane mechanic and an auto mechanic, inhaling all that asbestos dust…
Really is awful how common it was years ago.
If you are drilling those brake linings, wear a mask
I teach in the Champ and am considering purchasing one or a chief. The a-65 (or the carb attached to it) has tried to kill me on numerous occasions. Be sure to include the carb ice potential chart on your preflight or just be aware that in 80% RH you might need a few thousand feet of glide before the carb heat melts it all in time. Congrats on the purchase and enjoy!
Such a cool airplane. Sounds awesome!!
really is pretty cool! I like the panel the best
I started my flying lessons in a 1939 Aeronca Chief 65hp side by side seating. It took me about 10 hours before I soloed. Ultimately went to a Cessna 150 because the Aeronca had minimal instruments! Since my uncle owned the Aeronca I flew it quite a bit! Fun airplane!
I just bought a post war chief yesterday. Ground looped it on my first landing. Needless to say, still working on my tail wheel endorsement.
hey, just like us... Sh*t happens! as long as everyone is ok, no big deal
I did something similar right after I got my champ… I hope it wasn’t too bad and you’re getting it patched up…
Good judgement comes from experience. But experience comes from bad judgment. So a ground loop is progress, in a way. Hope your plane is Ok.
we had a 47 chief surprised to see quite a bit different between them, it even had a pull starter mounted to the floor on the pilot side, never used it just hand propped it nice video fun to watch your videos thanks joe
That's pretty cool, never knew they had pull started at one point, lol
This so awesome, I just watched for the 5th time, that chief is so cool!
Thank you!
Before I move to Michigan I was based at Southern Cross. The Chief you have was rebuilt by Joe Flood back in the 80’s and won a Lindy at Oshkosh. Glad to see it is still in the area.
Thanks Joe. I got one of those too. Great cheap flying aircraft.
Nice plane! I’m working on my cert in a ‘46 Chief right now. Wonderful planes.
They really are. what Motor?
65 hp Continental. Those hot summer days definitely mean a slow climb when loaded up, but it does the job. It’s got a climb prop on it so it’s definitely slower than yours haha.
My Cub has a Climb prop, lol. I feel your pain@@Ryan_Emch
@@Bananasssssssss Lol. I’m looking forward to your comparisons of the two.
No need to apologize. Looks fun
Nice landings! Those power lines look a bit close underneath on short final!
I flew taildraggers for 35 years, mostly dH Chipmunk but also L4 Cub, Supercub, Citabria and a few other taildraggers and a bunch of nose draggers (I got my licence on C.150s).
I once 'gave ' a landing to an experienced instructor who was in the front seat of the L4, but he wasn't tail wheel experienced. He touched down just fine, but then lost directional control with a swerve to the left followed by a bigger one to the right. At this point I shouted "I HAVE!" and gave it full right aileron, enough rudder, got the tail up, and full power all at the same time. I saw that left wingtip heading for the tarmac and to this day I don't know how we avoided runway / wingtip contact and resultant disaster. We departed the runway to the right, wings level, tail up, onto the grass, then airborne and away with no damage.
That is the closest I have ever been to seriously damaging an aeroplane. I never, ever, after that gave a tailwheel landing to a nosewheel guy, no matter how experienced he was.
Some years later I sold my Chipmunk share and bought into a Yak52 to do advanced aeros. After 3 years the Yak group folded and I bought back my Chipmunk share (the Chippy is my favorite aeroplane bar none - nothing else handles like it or has the character).
On my first landing (grass runway at home base) after buying my share back, I greased it on but commenced my runway vacate turn to the left while still a little fast and I felt the tail step out to the right. Instant full right rudder was ineffective so I pulled back on the brake handle which, with full rudder already applied, gave me just right mainwheel brake. Thankfully that caught it and the aeroplane got back in line.
That was the closest I ever came to ground looping.
Vince
Where I learned Tailwheel they have a Super Chipmunk, looks like a blast. Think they call it a “Poor mans” Spitfire, lol
@@Bananasssssssss Yeah, we called it the 'Spitmunk'! It's gotta have the original Gipsy Major engine for the real Chippy experience, though - those Supermunks have flat engines and just don't sound right. A couple of people I know who are Chippy pilots have also flown a Spitfire. They say the Chippy has nicer more harmonised handling, but of course you don't get 1400hp in a Chippy!
Great attitude! Love the content. Keep up the good work.
Thank you! Will do!
Love it , man! Thanks for sharing
Any time!
I have 70 hours in our 15AC and i still get the jitters right before engine start. After its running that all goes away and its time to go to work.
I had a chance to take a ride in an Aeronca I dont know the model but it was built in 1946 and the passenger sat behind the pilot.What a great plane! We flew around all afternoon and burned up about five gallons of gas what a great day!
Sounds like a Champ!
Very honest video, I see myself reflected when you say sometimes this more challenging than flying the line. Some days I whised I where in Costa Rica with a heavy loaded A340 instead of some situations with the Cub! Keep the good work. Let us know how your recurrent goes…
Thank you!
i had to go back and look at logs to find the name of the starter it was called a mcdowel starter it did work as long as kept clean and lubricated, also we had the lower exhaust glad to see these planes being flown and taken care of
Solid content!
Thanks!
I did not know A-65's came with up exhaust! I had an A-50 up exhaust with a single mag.
I wasn't either!. we have a sore block too, pretty cool motor for sure
Way north of 10k hrs, and my last attempt in a ‘46 Chief took me 6 tries to get to a full stop. Lots of J-3, Champ, others experience, no such problem.
Yes, people will laugh at being afraid of a Chief! I recently repaired a Chief that was groundlooped by a Pitts pilot! 10,000 hours count for nothing unless it's stick and rudder stuff.
Flying a tailwheel after a decade of flying tricycle gear aircraft has possibly been the most humbling experience of my life 😅
Humbles me daily, lol
(3:50) A little bit of fear is a healthy thing. There are a lot of fearless pilots who are no longer with us. Personally, I would be hesitant to fly with someone who says that he's never been scared in an airplane. He's either not been flying long enough, he lacks humility or the truth is not in him.
Hey, you mentioned working on your rudder coordination. What I find helpful, especially with the Aeroncas is to turn with the rudder and coordinate with the ailerons.
Thank you! Will give it a try 👍🏻
Dan Gryder has been preaching AQP for general aviation for years. You should do a video with him. He also owns a DC3. He will give a type rating if you have the money.
I managed to run my champ off the runway while practicing (learning taildragger) crosswind stuff… I was quite as lucky as you but it could have been a lot worse. I did bruise my ego! Taildraggers definitely keep you humble! 😂
Not sure when I'll take this out on windy days but I'll be sure to get plenty of sleep the night before, lol
I think as you said early in the video, sometimes it’s more sketch when you have two pilots and you’re not sure who is in charge.
100%
Very cool. Love these old birds. Flying out of KGBR 👍
This is so close to what my colt is, except in taildragger form and no electric start, and the trim is overhead and has an indicator built into the panel overhead
I grew up at the Flying W airport, and it still holds great memories. Whenever possible, I try to stop by and see some of my CFI friends at FreeFlight. I was in the pattern maybe a year ago, and I believe you were also in the pattern. I never heard you make any radio calls, are you flying your cub NORDO?
G,day Capt Joe from Sydney Australia. As your asking, I'd like to see the engine pre-heat method in the hanger.
*Electric heater jacket
* Oil heater
🌏🇦🇺
I'll make a video for ya!
Excellent, thanks!
You're welcome!
I bought a 38 Chief with Continental 65 up exhaust. Took my instruction in it and soloed in it, fortunately no one told me they can be tricky on the ground, I didn’t know the difference as it is all I know. Do you still have Eismann mags with unshielded wires. I had one fail twice so I installed new Slick mags. Haven’t been in the air in 5 years , I really want to get back at it. If I get back at it this Spring I’ll be posting video of it on my channel. Great little plane!
Respect is demanded in anything fast!!! 😂Fear is good!
As Scott Manley says: Fly safe!!
Doesn't sound like you are afraid, but now have a healthy respect which is a good thing. I love flying tail wheel aircraft. Learned in a Cessna 140 and believe it has made me a better pilot. Dance on the rudders. You need them more flying tail wheel than anywhere else.
Thanks for the video! This Aronca looks very similar to what I am building. I'll be putting in hydraulic brake but am still deciding between a heel brake and toe brake setup. What would be your preference?
I've grown to love the Heel Brakes but I do find that in the Chief I need to put more of an effort to keep my Heels "Off the floor" compared to the Cub, if that makes sense. The Heel Brakes on the Cub allow me to more naturally place my feet on the floor without touching the brakes .
Toe brakes 100% if you have a choice
@@johnlucas2037 thanks, I do have a choice. I'm building the airplane now😀
Cool video!
As you explained it's looks like this aircraft didn't fly regulary in the past which is quite concerning as a corrosion point of view inside the engine.
Yeah, it did have CamGuard and was hangared but definitely something we have to make sure we keep in mind.
Crossing fingers for it to have remained in good stade 🤞🏻
Ailerons proportionally opposite the needed rudder is the cure capt. The rudder gets too much credit for that which it aerodynamically cannot do.
Thanks !
I think aileron control is especially critical in the old chiefs. When I first flew my 41 Chief I was a bit behind on the ailerons/keeping the wings level. I wasn’t prepared for the amount of input needed on the yoke to achieve the desired result - you really have to saw on the yoke to get the wings to do anything! Until I got a bit more used to the plane, I’d find find myself instinctively making some aileron inputs to lower or level the wing and then have to mentally tell me myself to crank it some more! I don’t believe the old chiefs are necessarily that hard to land, but they do like some hearty and decisive inputs on the controls!
Always heard they were harder to land than a Champ. Something about the rudder getting blanked out during the flare? Could be wrong.
I think because it's shorter length wise but I don't think a Champ is any longer, so you might be right.
Great video Joe! Who doesn’t dread CQ? 😐
Thanks Jim!
Nice contrast to the cub stuff. FYI no one cares how grainy the video is :-) The Chief looks shorter than the cub, so maybe a bit more squirrely on the ground? And what is the empty weight and useful load on the Chief compared to the cub? Chief reminds me a bit of the 140, but the 140 was supposedly a copy of the Luscombe. On ground loops, fear and respect are two sides of the same coin. And you must have had some carb ice or you wouldn't be so cautious! It would be great to see you do a video on that and your leaning procedure (if any) and how to recognize icing; that would have come in handy for me last week flying to phoenix...
Thanks! I'll do a video on Carb ice for sure, almost got me a few years ago in the Cub. The Cub has a Mag Gross of 1120, empty it's around 750, interestingly enough the Chief is almost the same! Useful load is 450lbs or so, and max gross is 1152 I believe. I have to check on that though .
C140 930 empty 1450 max IIRC
My 38 Chief with Continental 65 up exhaust would like to have carb ice if running auto gas in warm weather. Any time over 80 degrees I’d run 100 LL. If I would get icing it would clear up immediately on applying carb heat. Seeing I had ample runway I would take off with carb heat part way on, to me better a little less power than suddenly no power.
So it’s like a spin out? I absolutely love following all you pilots online because flight has always been so fascinating to me.. (I never miss a chance to ride in a helicopter). But I would be lying if I said I don’t get worried for you guys (and girls) sometimes 😕
Yup. Basically the tail swings around pretty hard and you can smack a wingtip or two, lol
@@Bananasssssssss 🫣😮💨
The chief is a cool plane. I have some time in a post war Chief. I liked it. However I have 50 +/- in a 7DC and liked it much better. Get shoulder harness in the Chief. One day I hope to fly into flying W and meet you.
We have have the Shoulder Harness, I just forgot to put them on because I'm so used to the Cub! Would love for you to fly on down to the W!
You should probably be more afraid of flying without shoulder harnesses than flying a Chief vs a Cub :-) Even fairly low speed impacts can kill due to head impact with the panel. Sounds like your runway excursion was a rusty pilot not really being up to the task. Would have been better to knock the cobwebs off with him in your cub, I imagine. I wonder what his currency was at the time of that mishap. Super perishable skills.
@@karlw7764 Chief actually has shoulder harness I just forgot to put them on because so used to the Cub, lol.
Strange... your Cub won't have an accelerator pump either if it's a Stromberg. Idle mixture maybe too lean?
Yeah, I actually thought about that. 100% need to adjust mixture. Good call.
You need to buy my aeronca tail wheel some dope put on my ultralight circa 1940s
Have you ever got to have anytime in a Champ ?😊
Two more ways to keep Chiefs from ground looping: A locking tail wheel or put it on floats. Edo 1400's.
Haha floats would be awesome
What is that super duper preheater you made there?
haha best $25.00 I ever spent! got a little electric 15.00 preheater and some dryer ducting. it's amazing how well it works in only 30 minutes with a cowl cover.
Why are you so gentle with the throttle? Are you afraid of damaging the engine? Is it a geared engine?
It's really cold out so if I bring up the power too quickly it'll get too lean and quit. I need to adjust the mixture on the Carb
Heater must work fairly well…you’re not wearing gloves.