General Patton in the Ardennes - Battle of the Bulge
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- čas přidán 18. 12. 2021
- Part of a series of shows about the Battle of the Bulge. These programmes are sponsored by www.battlemaps.us/ Fine art prints of WWII military maps, antique charts, and historical battle plans from around the world. Use the code "WW2TV" to claim a 20% discount.
Patton biographer Kevin Hymel will reveal to us that General George S. Patton was actually surprised by the Battle of the Bulge and did not predict the German attack. He will then walk us through his meeting with Eisenhower, Bradley and their staffs and his dramatic promise to have his army ready to relieve Bastogne in only 48 hours.
Patton's War: An American General's Combat Leadership, Volume I: November 1942 - July 1944 by
Kevin M. Hymel
USA bookshop.org/a/21029/97808262...
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Kevin's previous WW2TV shows:
Patton's War • Patton's War - General...
The Battle for Mayenne • The Battle for Mayenne...
First Boots into the Netherlands - US 30th Division in Noorbeek • First Boots into the N...
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Maybe I missed it, but re the 10th A.D. did Patton issue any orders concerning Bastogne beyond the movement order? Like, hold the roads open to the South?
My brother was visiting home shortly after Band of Brothers was released and we went to a friend to visit that was in Pattons 3rd Army as a tank crewman, my Brother asked this friend if he knew anything about the 101st. Airborne and Mr. Tucker replied "Yes those SOB's got theirselves surrounded at Bastogne... and That G.D. Patton made us go and get their A .ses out!!!!
Too close to be observant... 🙄
My great grandfather was a tank commander in the 31st tank battalion, 7th armored. His tank was disabled near st. Vith and they dug in and fought off Germans til reinforcements arrived. He received the bronze star.
wow!
Great presentation, my honest opinion of Patton, a driven, sometimes egotistical individual. He expected troops under his command to be equally driven and trained. As Kevin explains, his dedication to detail and planning was geared to the benefit of those under his command. Making sure that they knew their objectives, were committed and importantly supplied. His drive was for the best for the troops under his command.
As usual fingers stumbled this in addition to just below. An ROTC officer pointed out that Patton was constantly giving his staff problems if they weren’t otherwise occupied, very important was reviewing routes around his position so he was prepared to move when the emergency came. Richard Taylor the Confederate general writes about doing the same thing and how very useful that was. I had the pleasure of reading Patton’s North Africa assessment it is brilliant from grand strategy to nuts and bolts he was a thorough pro. Frankly the little I saw of the Patton movie disgusted me, it was a populace ego trip and showed nothing of his real capabilities, full of sound and fury signifying nothing. Thank you as ever. I am always grateful for your fine guests and informative presentations
My Dad was in the 1st Infantry Division, 16 Infantry Regiment as of January 6, 1945. He always said it took 2 months to push the ‘Bulge’ back to the original lines. My Dad was not a fan of Patton. He always said Patton had the guts and they had the blood.
Great presentation. I live in New Hampshire, USA, and our current wintry weather sets the right mood to sit back and listen to this fantastic interview! Thanks!
Excellent. Kevin Hymel did a great job of myth busting while pointing out where Patton was truly great. I'm getting his book...
I have my Dad's copy of War As I Knew It with his own notes. My dad served in the 90th div, 358th, Bronze star at Metz.
Another excellent talk. My Patton myths shattered :)
We like shattering myths
The image of Patton spending three days and nights in a Jeep with his driver planning Third Army's response to the German Ardennes offensive is so compelling. Those few moments like that are the basis of the part of his legend that is true. For all his ability to give a rousing speech, and provide the press with a colorful quote, those things would mean nothing if he failed to act decisively in the few moments when energetic leadership was needed.
I'd say the same about Rommel. Some of his reputation was war propaganda. But on a few occasions, such as in France in 1940 and in the desert war, Rommel's legend was cemented, rightly so because his leadership style was this. Yes, I know everyone is tired, but we will drive on all night without food or rest because that is what the situation calls for, and while you men are suffering, know that I too will be in the column suffering with you.
This was a very informative and illuminating presentation. Understanding that Patton's widow changed his diary entries when she transcribed them really was an important take away.
She wanted to correct it based on their private phone calls.
Classified stuff can't be written down, Jerry might find it.
An excellent, engaging presentation!
Thanks for watching
Patton’s tactics supported by Ike automatically makes him more noticeable plus his flamboyant personality and clear successes made him a media darling. What average person needs to know more about the war😂
Random useless historical info (but confused some local historians) from Luxembourg:
The US HQ for the occupation was in the "Arbed" building on avenue de la Liberté, but Patton put his HQ in the "Pescatore" building (now an old folks home,near rond-point Schuman).
My aunt was a secretary for the US occupation,and saw Patton in a situation at the Arbed building.
That evening they had some sort of celebration,and her boss said she should come,he would send an officer named Strickler to pick her up.
Patton then leaned over her desk,and cofidently told her "Watch out,he's a wolf".
But she got to dance a round with Patton that evening, something highly glorious for a recently liberated young Luxembourgian.
Love your channel, respect what you are doing, and I appreciate the fact that you are combining the military history of the British Commonwealth and the United States in WWII. Two sides of the same coin since December 7th, 1941. The Australian and New Zealand contribution in the South Pacific theater is something Americans should always appreciate.
Thank you Morgan
And using the 30,000 03A3s supplied by the US that were built by Remington?
Yeah, everybody knows Aussies won the War.
Anyone wo has served in the military will know that commanders, from platoon leaders to army group commanders will do anything to hold on to units and resources
assigned to them in order to accomplish what they perceive as their mission. I think that Kevin has uncovered this in his research: General Patton, believing the intel
that his staff presented to him that the enemy buildup in the north only hinted at a possible minor German offensive, was concerned that he might have to commit his Corp
in reserve in any possible fighting there. Naturally he thought that by ordering his units east into the fighting in the Saar that he could keep them out of any probable
commitment in the north to defend against what he believed would be a distraction. I saw actions such as this (on the smaller company and platoon
level) many times. Generals are only Lieutenants grown up. Once he realized that the offensive was a serious one, he immediately gave his
commanders his full support. Patton could be a team player when duty required it and I think this is well portrayed in the film "Patton." Does anyone agree?
Sorry for the late post, but I was away during the live broadcast.
Thanks for the extra detail David
I’m not knowledgeable enough to make assumptions on tactics but I do have to say I have a healthy respect for General Patton. He could motivate his men, that’s for sure.
Edit: History Channel is releasing the old Patton 360 here on CZcams as we speak. I know its not exactly factual but I sure liked the series back in the day.
Excellent! Kevin is an amazing historian!
New sub. History Underground sent me!
Thank you and welcome aboard
Excellent programme!
Another excellent installment in the Bulge series. I am surprised their aren't more subscribers and likes. This is excellent content for anyone interested in World War II. Thanks for sharing your passion
Excellent presentation. Kevin is a great communicator and researcher. Thank you
Our pleasure!
Great show! Thanks! 👏👏👏👏👏
We are so lucky to have historians the caliber of Kevin out there ferreting out the information that past historians have missed. Maybe if you're not looking for something, you don't find it?? Thanks Kevin and thanks, as always, Paul.
Another great presentation with new insights. And another book on the wishlist. As usual, keep it up Paul.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Thank you Paul. I enjoy your WWII TV very much. Excellent work!
I have been wondering why Colonel Koch did not tell the G2 of the First Army, Colonel Dickson, nor Patton with Bradley or Hodges, about their contingency plan. Thanks to Kevin. Good research work.
They mentioned the movie but one of my favorite parts was when Patton send for a preacher and asked him to compose a prayer for Patton to help 'the combat conditions'!
Thanks when time alots I'll order this,good interview
“A good plan right now is better than the perfect plan next week.”
Patton was brilliant, but rather crazy. His disgrace for slapping shell shocked soldiers nearly wrecked his career. Somehow, that blew over and he got another chance.
Great show. Kevin is a great guest.
He certainly is, and he'll be back in 2022
Just started catching up, 1st thought, excellent intro Woody. Patton, like Monty was a Marmite General and a balanced view is always welcome.
I walked away with a much different view about General Patton. I still have an extremely healthy respect for the man. Just a little different now.
To write a book, you need to say something different to sell it.
Thank you for the awesome stream! 😃 I will put shis books in my wish list.
When I saw the Patton movie, I was always skeptical about it. It seems far fetched and tbh I never like the guy. He is interesting but was never my cup of tea, I am a Monty fan. 😃 Thanks for the myth busting and a fresh look at Patton. It is good to re research what was written and said, I hate to miss these little nuggets of history, which gives us a better light into the past.
You are very welcome
Skeptical about Hollywood? Really?
Did you happen to notice who has the credit for the screenplay?
That guy could even get you liking the mob.
So Beatrice pulled a Mrs. Custer! Wife polishes the career to sell the product!
Another thing about Patton I don't think he was as well known and revered by the German Army at the time of the Battle of the Bulge.... because alot of the German Army units that were in the Bulge area had been reassigned to the Western front from the Eastern Front and they were more familiar with opposing Russian Army commanders....
Me too, Paul!
Very interested in Volume 3 to learn more about where my Dad served.
The point where von Rundstedt attacks in December 1944 is the German Highway into the west. In 1870 during Franko-Prussian war they drive through Belgium into France at the Ardennes. Again in 1914 in the Great War, the German army attacks here bringing Belgium and Britain into the war. In 1940, the German Army feints to the North driving into Holland and northern Belgium, bringing the BEF and French armies off station, only for the Wehrmacht to attack through the Ardennes taking out Luxembourg and finishing off Belgium before invading France and forcing the evacuation at Dunkirk. Thus in 73 years, Germany has already hit this line 3 times in three separate wars.
The Black, Red & Yellow Forrest perhaps?
And Patton knew that, if nothing else. And I believe that knowing that, he was the perfect man on the spot. Then there was 10th Armor, already in Bastogne. Not under his command, but still his people. Really, the German plan was impossible to pull off at this time. Blitzkrieg depende on tactical air. Plus, the previous Ardennes offensives took place under better conditions.
The comment that Patton's advance across Europe and the border campaign was the highlight of his career goes against everything I have read. The battle of Metz has been described by some as the biggest disaster for US forces in NW Europe with casualties of over 55,000. The view was that Patton was incapable of fighting a set-piece battle against a fortified enemy?
Metz? Patton? How about the Scheld? Hamburger Hill? The seesaw campaigns in WW1? All Armies ordered to take and hold ground that's been prepared for defense have a hard time. At Metz Patton asked repeatedly for a Berlin type bombing program ala Cobra. Denied that, the only option was frontal assault.
@@nomadmarauder-dw9re Well. taking the Scheldt had a damn sight fewer casualties than Lorrain-Metz or the Hurtgen Forest. But Patton was a disaster before that, Patton only won at El Guettar because Monty's 8th Army destroyed Von Arnim's rear area forcing a retreat. Patton's troops committed war crimes in Sicily, the Biscari Massacres of Italian POWs. After Patton's "take no prisoners" speech before the attack. That was the real reason he was recalled, not the slapping. Called the US Tank General, when Patton never actually fought a major tank battle in either World Wars.
@@billballbuster7186 nobody's perfect. But, Arnhem is acknowledged by everyone as one of the biggest screwups ever. Montgomery had those resources at his disposal. And Antwerp should've been seen as more important than ending the war by Christmas. And what about Falaise? Those Germans went on to fight at Antwerp and in Holland. And Patton may have been in command at Metz, but Monty commanded all ground forces for Overlord. Which I'm using to categorize the entire N.W. European theater. As for Guetar, that was a combined op, with armor used effectively by everybody involved. At the Bulge, GSP was practically on his own and performed brilliantly as a combat leader. Which was his job. Finally, a lot more soldiers got a boot up their butts than those two and war crimes were endemic throughout on every side. War IS the crime.
@@nomadmarauder-dw9re It never takes long for Market-Garden to come up. But Market-Garden was Eisenhower's project intended to test the newly formed 1st Allied Airborne Army, under General Brereton. Monty only commanded the ground force. So please explain why Monty gets the whole blame ?
Likewise it was Eisenhower that gave Market-Garden priority over clearing the Scheldt. Eisenhower ordered Monty to clear the Scheldt AFTER Market-Garden. Eisenhower was calling the shots not Monty.
Yes, Monty was Ground commander of all Allied forces in Normandy. It was a very successful campaign, victory achieved a full two weeks before Monty's prediction. The problems arose in September when Eisenhower took over as Ground Commander. From that time both US 12th Army Group and British 21st Army Group were subordinate to Eisenhower. For the Battle of the Bulge Monty again became Allied Ground Commander for the duration of the battle.
El Guettar was Patton's only tank battle in North Africa if you can call it that. The battle did not start well as initial objectives were not taken. The Germans fielded just 2 Tank Companies but these over-ran Patton's tanks of the 1st Armored Division. However Operation Supercharge by Monty's 8th Army, routed Von Arnim's force sending it in full retreat to Tunis. There was no combined operation, the British just got there faster.
Lastly 101st Airborne claim that the German tanks had gone or ran out of fuel well before Patton got to Bastogne, Patton achieved nothing! German Commanders at Nuremburg were executed for a lot less than Patton at Biscari, only a US internal enquiry dismissed the charges. As 73 victims were Italian, they wanted Patton charged in 1945 but he died before anything was done.
@@billballbuster7186 nobody's perfect
One more comment: I had some very good unit commanders during my 41 years service in the U.S. Army and Army National Guard. The most memorable commander I
recall was an avid fan of two WW2 generals. The first was Field Marshall Rommel, and the second was Lieutenant General Patton. His leadership style was based upon
both of these commanders' up front approach. He, like they, always seemed to come on the scene whenever a crisis or critical moment developed during our operations.
This is one of the dynamic features of such leaders and one highly regarded by the junior leaders and enlisted soldiers. They may not have been the "gods" that they
are portrayed as, but people like this have a great impact. Just food for thought.
Rommel is a good general if you ignore his failure to understand logistics. Patton was better in that regard
Montgomery was better than both of them. Rommel was an excellent divisional or corps level armour tactician, but as already mentioned, he was not a great army or army group level grand strategist. His failure to fully grasp the difficulties of logistics was his big flaw. In Africa he kept out running his supply lines.
Patton was one dimensional and even his boss Bradley said that when he couldn't bull ahead he seemed to run out of ideas and was not very flexible. Bradley also said Patton didn't seem to think through campaigns and make careful estimations of the situations. In the Bulge, after Bastogne was relieved his impatience and desire to beat US 1st Army to Houffalize resulted in throwing green and ill prepared divisions into the counter attack through a blizzard and they suffered unnecessary casualties as a result. Montgomery, in the north, waited for better weather and for his men to be more prepared. His casualties were thus lighter.
@@lyndoncmp5751 Patton was always convinced that rapid attack was the way to keep casualties down in the long run, a belief that was often incorrect. It was one of his character traits that could lead to such excesses that you mention. When he could pull it off than he was the great hero, but when it failed the men under his command suffered for it. One trait that all three men shared IMHO was that they could never admit to being wrong. They were all very confident and had tremendous egos. Thanks for your insights Lyndon.
Cheers. I appreciate the words. I will say though that even Patton's own biographer (Carlo D'Este) said that Montgomery was the only allied commander in the NW Europe campaign to admit mistakes. Montgomery in his own biography admitted his own mistakes for Market Garden and that he was wrong in some aspects. D'Este said no other commander ever did that, not even Eisenhower. I think Eisenhowers broad front strategy was full of mistakes, such as the Hurtgen Forest, Metz etc.
Page and book please OK John Cornell,err I mean Lyndon
My father was 11 days in country. Became POW with 24,000 other US & Allied men. Lost over 100lbs starving in a POW camp.
Very interesting, Kevin comment around 3:50, that he doesn't want to give away too much. Understandable, but as has been pointed out to me, when it comes to selling information in this age, you almost have to give away a little to close the sale. The give away is the assurance that there is something in there that is new. Otherwise, the buyer is thinking "Am I buying a rehash of what I already have on my bookshelf?" This work looks to be worth buying. Interesting presentation in itself, BTW. Edit/Sidenote: I have considered doing a "history" of some given event that consists only of published pieces that we later determined to be incorrect. Don't have the time or energy for it, but it would make an amusing piece of literature.
To be fair, Kevin did reveal most of the new research in the show. Not all of it of course - there are three volumes of stories
@@WW2TV Sean (edit: Correction...Paul. Where the devil did I get Sean?) , thanks for the "warning", but I generally find I pick up a little bit more when I see the totality in print, I'm willing to pay for that. Now I just have to get off my lazy butt and buy a copy!
Regarding the brief detour in histographia you two had, it seems logical to me that the wave of (popular) history on WWII from the fifties and sixties was indeed more oral than document fixated. With the war only 1-2 decades in the past, most survivors still alive and in the prime of their lives, if you can interview a Montgomery or von Rundstedt, why wouldn't you? There's also the availability of primary documentation at that point. Again, with the war so recent, it makes sense that a lot of it wasn't available yet or still classified; Bletchly Park and Ultra frex. Seventyfive years on and longer, survivors are obviously much more scare, but there is greater access to primary sources, so no wonder modern historians are concentrating on those.
I don't think it's a coincidence that you get the hagiographies of Brokaw and Ambrose in the nineties, when the generation that fought WWII started dying and when most of those who had lead the war had already died. A second round of myth making you could argue, with the first being the (auto)biographies published on/by Patton, Eisenhouwer etc after the war. In that sense the work Kevin is doing here proving and disproving some of those myths about Patton is much needed, to get a closer look at what the truth was.
Enormously interesting episode again, I love this whole Battle of the Bulge series.
Yes, very good points, and I hope we didn't come across as too critical of those early books, they are all still an important part of my library. It's just nice to know that we are in a different era now
We call it marketing, needed a fresh bunch to "sign up".
You think bankers are slow whited?
Great talk but the suggestion is that Col. Koch made up his claim that he anticipated the Ardennes offensive and reported that to Patton? Did I misunderstand these guys?
I knew, that Patton wasnt genius, but thought that he was full of ULTRA decrypts.
Everyone was getting Ultra, but as PCA said on Monday, were largely ignoring the possibility of a German offensive
So was every one else, but they did not produce.
I always thought Patton couldn't turn
his entire army North, as this would
offer his flank on a silver platter, or worse.
Revisionist history has a bad reputation because of when it is done badly. Sometimes revisionist history is done to introduce "different" myths more to the author's liking. (A generation after the American Civil War, southern writers successfully did that.) As new sources become available to expand our understanding of the event or person, those are great. Re-examination of existing sources for a new perspective are sometimes suspect but can also be great. (In the last 40 years General Grant's reputation as a general has been rehabilitated by re-examining existing sources.) Late to this table but an excellent show.
I will get the book. Nothing to say. Contemporary history as it should be.
Speaking of Montgomery, it is said that the feeling in the headquarters of 1st Army, it was like Christ cleansing of the Temple.
And it needed cleansing. Or at least sorting out.
From a chump that wanted to fall back
Montgomery Wards? ... thought they went bankrupt.
Did Patton actually order his American units to halt outside Paris for several days rather than aid the resistance uprising? Wikipedia states that Leclerc disobeyed orders and to enter first on the 24th with the Americans on the 25th. However an interview of a verteran, who served in an American recce unit and who arived on the outskirts of Paris first, said that his division could have taken Paris days earlier and so saved thousands of lives but was ordered to halt and wait for the French.
Regarding revisionist history, the methods required by universities mandate revision. You have to come up with a new angle to get a good mark.
Regarding Patton's fame in the German Army, a German general was supposedly asked about the effect of Patton being put in charge of the fictitious army supposedly waiting to attack Calais, however he replied that they didn't rate Patton highly. But the Germans were known to embellish their own careers rather than tell the truth, as the Allied generals did too.
That is a subject for another day Maurice and at some point I will do a show, or a series of shows about the liberation of Paris
I dont know about Paris, but Bradley wrote that Patton kept his own forces waiting in the hills outside Messina in Sicily and prevented any formations to enter the town until he was able to lead a cavalcade procession into Messina, with blaring sirens. Bradley said this sickened him and soured him on Patton and that a lot of Germans were able to be evacuated due to his halt order.
Failures whom attack the successful remain failures.
Why not spent that energy improving yourself.
Unless it is a lost cause.
Patton was not advancing or being heavily engaged at the time he turned north to Bastogne when the Germans pounded through US lines in the Ardennes. Bastogne was on the very southern German flank, their focus being west. The strategic significance of the stand at Bastogne is over exaggerated. The 18,000 did not change the course of the battle. The main fighting by far was in the north under Montgomery's command. The German's bypassed Bastogne going west, placing a containment force around the town.
Only when Patton neared Bastogne did he engage _some_ German armour but not a great deal at all. Patton's ride to Bastogne was mainly through US held territory, with the road from Luxembourg to Bastogne seeing few German forces. The Fuhrer Grenadier Brigade was far from being one of the best German armoured units with about 80 tanks, 26th Volks-Grenadier having about 12 Hetzers, and the small element of Panzer Lehr (Kampfgruppe 901) left behind with a small number of operational tanks. Patton did not have to smash through full panzer divisions or Tiger battalions on his way to Bastogne. Patton's armoured forces outnumbered the Germans by at least 6 to 1. Patton faced very little German armour when he broke through to Bastogne because the vast majority of the German 5th Panzer Army had already left Bastogne in their rear moving westwards to the River Meuse. They were engaging forces under Montgomery's 21st Army Group near Dinant by the Meuse. Monty's armies halted the German advance pushing them back.
On the night of the 22 December 1944, Patton ordered Combat Command B of 4th Armored Division to advance through the village of Chaumont in the night. A small number of German troops with anti tank weapons stopped the American attack, who pulled back. The next day, fighter bombers strafed the village of Chaumont weakening the defenders enabling the attack to resume the next afternoon. However, a German counter attack north of Chaumont knocked out 12 Shermans with Combat Command B again retreating. It took Patton almost *THREE DAYS* just to get through the village of Chaumont. They didn't get through Chaumont village until Christmas Day. Hardly racing at breakneck speed.
Patton had less than 20 km of German held ground to cover during his actual _'attack'_ towards Bastogne, with the vast majority of his move towards Bastogne through American held lines devoid of the enemy. His start line for the attack was at Vaux-les-Rosieres, 15km southwest of Bastogne and yet he still took him five days to get through to Bastogne. After the German attack in the Ardennes, US air force units were put under Coningham of the RAF, who gave Patton massive ground attack support and he still *stalled.* Patton's failure to concentrate his forces on a narrow front and his decision to commit two green divisions to battle without adequate reconnaissance resulted in his *stall.* US historian Roger Cirillo said, _"Patton launched attack, after attack, after attack, after attack, that failed. Because he never waited to concentrate"._
The 18,000 men in Bastogne pretty well walked out, even the commander of the US 101st stated that. The Germans had vacated the area heading west.
Burns you've lied once and that has been continuously. Wake me up when your fantasy is having 3rd Army driven into the channel. Have your handler repeat this video for you - it's in English. You post your twisted views and present them as fact.The BEF had 187 Men KIA which is too many,the GIs had 8,500 KIA. And as pointed out your boy wanted to fall back
@@bigwoody4704
Rambo, a quiz.
What US general had 50,000 casualties in the Lorraine and yet never reach the Westwall in the Lorraine?
20 points for the correct answer.
Making monty out to to be some master as you belittle the GIs sent on your behalf and behest.Your army got driven into the sea - not mine - YOURS and you continue to caterwaul like that field mouse is an actual Field Marshall - a title given him to assuage his bruised ego when over all command of Normandy was taken .As Monty's pitiful performance at Caen,Falaise Gap and Monty Garden proved he should have never had any command at all.
It still took Monty 6 months with the US 9th Army's help to move where he left off at the end of September after MONTY GARDEN to cross the Rhine. in that time Americans still advanced thru Lorainne,the Hurtgen,The Ardennes and across the Rhine
@@bigwoody4704
*BZZZZZT!* Wrong answer.
Rambo, the name of the US general had 50,000 casualties in the Lorraine and yet never reach the Westwall in the Lorraine? was ...
🍾🎊🎈 *General Patton* 🍾🎊🎈
Zero points Rambo, zero. Better luck next time
*Montgomery in Europe 1943-45,by Richard Lamb pages 360-362* *"British 6th Airborne had lost 30% of it's personnel killed and wounded;the Air landing brigade,which came in gliders had lost over 70% of its equipment The Army that needed to keep casualty count low lost over 3,100 men crossing the Rhine north of Wesel.The disparity between the number of lives lost at Wesel and the 2 earlier American crossings is striking*
Casualty figures for the Rhine River crossings tell a grim story. Hodges 1st US Army got across at Remagen with *a casualty count of 31 men Patton's 3rd US Army came across near Oppenheim "with the total loss of 28 men killed and wounded*
Simpson's 9th US Army had to wait and cross with Montgomery - *they suffered 491 casualties crossing south of Wesel.The US 17th Airborne Division lost 921 Paratroopers and 350 air crew*(all with Montgomery's 21st Army Group)
*Page 368,Armageddon:The Battle for Germany,1944-1945,By Max Hastings* The US Army relished to the utmost the spectacle of Montgomery preparing to "stage" a huge,formal military pageant ,more than 2 days after it's own soldiers had crossed 70 miles to the south.Patton's Army had crossed at night on 22 March - "without the benefit of aerial bombing,ground smoke,artillery preparation and airborne assistance," - all of which 21st Army Group(Montgomery) was employing on a prodigious scale!!
*This from World War II Database:* Eisenhower’s letter of March 28, 1945, therefore took General William Simpson’s Ninth U.S. Army away from Field Marshal Mont gomery and gave it back to Bradley. Prime Minister Churchill immediately howled in protest. He also argued that this “would leave [Montgomery’s] 21st Army Group too weak to carry out offensive action … and relegates His Majesty’s Forces to an unexpected restricted sphere.” This was true, but wholly irrelevant..
See Johnny IKE finally fiqured out that Monty's reputation had been greatly embellished that's 3,100 north of Wesel and 1762 south of it - do the math not the meth. In basically the same operation down river Patton and Hodges Armies during the cross lost 31 & 28 repectively.Just like in Sicily where patton left him faffing about
The English are Lions led by Jackasses - General Ludendorf
I don't understand the controversy about Patton predicting the Ardennes Offensive. Who really cares? His prediction, if it happened, didn't stop it! From the American perspective what happened after the offensive began is what matters. What you do after the fact matters more to us than what you thought would happen. American military history is mostly about things going horribly wrong and then making things go right afterwards. Study the American Civil War at length and you'll understand US military doctrine: winning despite getting everything else wrong. I am from the South and whatever victories we got off the Yankees was because we outwilled them not because we were quantitatively or qualitatively superior!
I'm not sure we used the word "controversy". We just talked about that the idea Patton knew about the Ardennes is an idea that regularly does the rounds
@@WW2TV Sorry, my mistake, but again to me in the movie Patton what he does after the Ardennes Offensive begins is what is most impressive. Also, Patton's historicity (which I think is a psychological term for a certain type of grandiosity) becomes quite evident in his visit to Carthage (really the ruins of Roman Carthago) and freaked out a lot of Americans. The dude was wierd.
Fighting in your backyard with spies everywhere ... remember what happened in ... gee can't remember ... up by Carlyle ... up north thing were not so outwilled, were they?
Regarding the transcripts, so frustrating -- what should be a trustworthy "original" source. We can't trust anything without going blind reading handwritten documents.
I never knew he had an African American driver. I know he’s not known for his social err acceptance? Maybe that’s the wrong word. But, how did he treat his driver? Did he respect him? Or was it shall we say highly unacceptable by modern standards?
He was always good with his black staff, it's more in the area of anti-semitism it gets awkward
@@WW2TVRacial goading as a challenge he would've learned from Pershing. Along with disregarding the common B.S. regarding the so called inferiority of ethnicities other than his own. Soldierly qualities know no boundaries.
"Revisionist history" is fine, if its based on newly discovered and researched facts, not made up postulations and opinions, and the problem with most of today's history is we are falling into the latter of those two in the name of "Diversity, Equity and Inclusion"
Are you talking generally or about WW2TV?
He is just another indoctrinated US Republiconned... 🙄
John Ellis in _Brute Force_ described Patton's dash across northern France as well as his earlier _“much overrated”_ pursuit through Sicily as more of _“a triumphal procession than an actual military offensive.”_ The ground he covered was devoid of the enemy. Andy Rooney of CBS was an Army correspondent, writing for Stars and Stripes in World War II. Rooney said, _“Patton was a pompous ass who cared about his mythic image above all else.”_ He also said: _"Patton was obsessed with protecting his image and often used his power and authority to manipulate news reports and media narratives."_
Bradley stated:
_“Patton was developing as an unpopular guy._ *_He steamed about with great convoys of cars and great squads of cameramen_* _… To George, tactics was simply a process of bulling ahead. Never seemed to think out a campaign. Seldom made a careful estimate of the situation. I thought him a shallow commander … I disliked the way he worked, upset tactical plans, interfered in my orders. His stubbornness on amphibious operations, parade plans into Messina sickened me and soured me on Patton. We learned how not to behave from Patton’s Seventh Army.”_
Book and Page oh that's right you use your ample Backside
*The Rommel Papers by B.H.Liddell-Hart page 523* "In Tunisia the Americans had to pay a stiff price for their experience,but it brought rich dividends .Even at the time American Generals showed themselves to be very advanced in the technical handling of their forces, *Although we had to wait until Patton's Army in France to see the most astonishing achievements in mobile warfare* The Americans it is fair to say,profited far more than the British from their experience in Africa,thus confirming axiom that education is easier than re-education"
*Patton:A Genius for War,By Carlo D'Este* After the War General Fritz Bayerlein commander of Panzer Lehr Division and the Afrika Corp.He assessed the escape of Rommel's Panzers after Alamein *I do not think General Patton would have let us get away so easily said Bayerlein .Comparing Patton with Guderian and Montgomery with Von Rundstedt*
*Ladislas Farago - Patton: Ordeal and Triumph (New York: Astor-Honor, Inc., Inc., 1964), p. 505* 'If Manstein was Germany's greatest strategist during World War II, Balck has strong claims to be regarded as our finest field commander. He has a superb grasp of tactics and great qualities of leadership' - Major-General von Mellenthin General Balck, commenting on the Lorraine Campaign, said: "Patton was the outstanding tactical genius of World War II. I still consider it a privilege and an unforgettable experience to have had the honor to oppose him"
When interviewed in 1945, *Heinz Guderian* , the Wehrmacht’s foremost practitioner of Blitzkrieg, stated, “ *General Patton conducted a good campaign. From the standpoint of a tank specialist, I must congratulate him on his victory since he acted as I would have done had I been in his place*
*General Gunther Blumentritt:We regarded general Patton extremely highly as the most aggressive panzer-general of the Allies* . . . His operations impressed us enormously, probably because he came closest to our own concept of the classical military commander. He even improved on Napoleon’s basic tenets
@@bigwoody4704
Rambo, a quiz.
Name the US General who, after suffering 50,000 casualties against a 2nd rate Germans army in Lorraine, failed to reach the German Westwall?
20 points for the correct answer.
*BZZZZZT!* Wrong answer.
Rambo, the name of the US general who had 50,000 casualties in the Lorraine and yet never reached the Westwall in the Lorraine, was ...
🍾🎊🎈 *General Patton* 🍾🎊🎈
Zero points Rambo, zero. Better luck next time.
Gonna have to try harder johnny your special needs bombast isn't carying any weight this isn't TIK Board were delusion is embraced
Britain had some fine men you and bernard are not amongst them! Making monty out to to be some master as you belittle the GIs sent on your behalf and behest.Your army got driven into the sea - not mine - YOURS and you continue to caterwaul like that field mouse is an actual Field Marshall - a title given him to assuage his bruised ego when over all command of Normandy was taken .As Monty's pitiful performance at Caen,Falaise Gap and Monty Garden proved he should have never had any command at all.
It still took Monty 6 months with the US 9th Army's help to move where he left off at the end of September after MONTY GARDEN to cross the Rhine. in that time Americans still advanced thru Lorainne,the Hurtgen,The Ardennes and across the Rhine
So Johnny how much more room do you have in your stable of Psueds - Sicko,making up aliases on an anonymous message board to agree with yourself.If that's not a red flag - you can't be helped,sadly that looks like the case
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Now get in the corner adults are talking over here
That is a great thumbnail photo ... he is looking more like Trump every day.
The individual at 1:07.56....the typical unbalanced, uninformed Monty hater. Some of his statements are pure dross,
Some of who's statements? Your time code must be wrong I think.
@@WW2TV the unbalance comments re Monty.
@@rogerkidd2121 Who's uncomments and what specifically? I am a Monty fan, so I didn't say anything negative and neither is Kevin
@@WW2TV My bad,,,,,I tagged the wrong video...Apologies.
Which video did you mean to comment on?
Some of this is sketchy
What is sketchy and why? You know that Kevin has literally spent years going through Patton's papers and archives. We welcome feedback and criticism but we ask you to elaborate and provide evidence please
Vok bla bla👎👎👎🤮🤮🤮
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