Why I Don’t Use a 4 Wheel Drive Tractor for Logging
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- čas přidán 29. 11. 2023
- Why I use a 2 wheel drive tractor instead of a 4 wheel drive tractor for logging. I use a Massey Ferguson MF 30 MF 34 industrial tractor with a farm 501 logging winch, and log forks on the loader. I use this for my small scale logging operation. I tell why I don’t replace this tractor with a 4 wheel drive tractor. 
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I appreciate all the comments telling me how I can get more traction on this tractor. I do know I could get chains or reduce my air pressure in the tires. It is so rare that I need more traction, I have never had a need to seek out more traction.
why make video and then shoot down suggestions. {not telling you what to do} unsubscribed.
I have an old Case VA with two wheel drive and no chains... I also have a calendar that tells me when I shouldn't be using it!
@@user-rn6yc1vh4q The video wasn’t asking for suggestions.
If it's wet, I'm not yarding logs. If I'm yarding logs, it's not wet. Simple as that.
Roads are expensive to build, common sense is cheap to use.
@@user-rn6yc1vh4q Your response is something that a woman would say... Take a comment and twist it because you can't hear the tone of their voice in written statements. I don't believe he has a mean bone in his body!
The moral of the story, be thankful for what we have, be sensible about what we want as opposed to need, another spot on video, kudos.
Very well said, thank you.
😅we have a volvo T500 from the 70's. 2wd and a frontloader. It does the jobb here on the westcoast of Sweden. Snowplowing in winter, farm work, handling trees. It makes tighter turnes than a 4wd. No modern electronics. God old mechanical solutions make repairs easy. You are spoton. 😂
Dad said 4wd just gets you stuck further in. At last, some wisdom to go along with the production sales pitch!
That’s what my grandpa used to say. I remember him saying that about tire chains.
It horses for courses.
Totally agree! Use what you have to do things others are not able or willing to do. No big loggers are willing to come on to your land, not tear up the roads, harvest only the dead or dyeing trees and turn them into lumber. Bigger tractors, bigger sawmills, bigger trailers, bigger trucks are not always the answer.
Very well said.
No but you got to love em
I bought a small 4x4 for logging, and it’s been more effective at the job than the larger 2wd we have, most of the time. It was mentioned that 4wd braking is beneficial, but also that I am not just limited to ballasting the rear for traction but can hang weights off the front for supplemental traction too. When you’re trying to push every ounce of power out of a 15hp Japanese twin cylinder diesel on a sub- ton tractor, you really want that additional traction, but for something this large it becomes less important.
That is a very good point you just made.
There are two things that I strive to do when working in the woods 1. work smart 2. use what you have. You do amazingly well at both !
Thank you and those are two good things to strive for.
I have a neighbor that basically bought out the kubota dealership. Wheel loader, many skid steers, tree spades, 4WD bucket tractors, real grapple. The grapple is settling nicely in the field dirt where it got delivered. Many trees that were there are levelled and I think its becoming an industrial park.
I like your rationale on the equipment. Alot of people are more interested in keeping up with the Joneses and going into debt than being happy with what they have.
I think you hit the nail on the head there.
Great explanation in this piece with property management verses production Logging. You don't need a bunch of extra expensive equipment to get work done, just ingenuity, and a good common sense approach to what you are harvesting.
Absolutely right! The tractor is enough for 90% of the work. For difficult terrain you can use chains on the drive axle. 👍 Nice greetings from Germany
I'm working on starting a farm, and I'm planning on getting a USDA loan for a sawmill and tractor. Your video was incredibly helpful for me and i really appreciate the work you put into sharing all of your information and experience!
I’ve been pretty impressed with what you are able to do with your tractor. You just have to be mindful. I have a 4 wd tractor. I do a lot of loader work and 4wd is a must. And when in 4wd I have brakes on all 4 wheels. No sliding into the truck when loading. Cool vehicle Wilson.
I really don’t need more traction but you bring up a good point. Brakes in the front would be the one thing that would be the most helpful.
Same rig, but we added a simple hydraulic grapple bar that adds down pressure from the top. Total game changer, and cheap to do diy.
When I bought my forest I spent the first 24 months without chainsaw, or any other mechanical aids. I harvested enough wood with a handsaw and splitting maul, carrying logs up over my shoulder one by one. My thoughts were that once I had the tools I'd inevitably use it, rather than use my eyes and brain to really studying the trees. The second year I did some cruising, ID'd what needed thinning and bought a chainsaw. That 2 years of enforced study gave me a better idea of which trees needed some canopy space and I've now got a solid 5 year plan.
More equipment = more profit = more costs...
You end up working all the time just to cope with all...
Your philosophy applies to me 100%.
Good video !
Thank you and very well said.
I luv your tractor...motor going put put put.... you never just gun and see what happens... I have a 1960s tractor so i enjoy watching you work yours...
I learned a long time ago when I gun and see what happens, that’s when I get into trouble. 😁
So i understand that you don't want to mow down your forest to pay for new stuff. 🤣👍
All good points and nothing wrong with working with what you have. 😁👍
I know not mowing down my forest is a bit of an outlandish idea but I am wild and crazy like that. 😁
I hear ya! I love my 4wd tractor but bought it when I was working and making the kind of money needed to afford it ;) Today, I'd be lucky to get a donkey! ha! 😁😂
Where you are I am guessing snow is a big factor. If I had a lot of snow to deal with I think I would want 4wd. Or if I needed to use the tractor in winter weather. If you can get a donkey it should be able to just walk through snow and mud. 😁
I like your explanation of investment versus need,I think a lot of people get caught up with the” latest and greatest”. But then I say, if people didn’t buy new there wouldn’t be used equipment for me to buy.
Good morning Wilson , you obviously know about doing more with less ! Hell your good at it, any friends that are horse loggers ?
No I don’t know any horse loggers. Actually I hardly know any loggers. I just work on my own land doing my own thing. I am a bit out of the loop. I remember hearing about a horse logger around a long time ago but I don’t think it’s very popular here
A set of tire chains for the rears on your 2wd drive will help out quite a bit in mud season and winter.
I don’t use it in mud season and winter. Except for on my gravel roads. It might help me get through the muddy roads. But then it just makes it even more slick and muddy the next time it rains. When things are muddy that’s a good time for me to be doing other things.
My first good laugh of the day is your "If I had.." monolog.
Lifetime small logger here. You doin fine. A winch is a must, and you have a good one..
Dam fine advice most people have forgotten
My 4 wheel drive tractor is really only a 3 wheel drive going up hill. No diff lock on the front so you would only be working extra for 3 wheel drive. Useful going down hill to tie into the rear brakes though. Love the philosophy of life and work balance. Thank you.
I think the front breaking feature of four wheel drive would be more useful than anything for me. One of the reasons I keep my implements low to the ground when going down steep hills. Sometimes they get used for supplemental braking.
Perfect set up. Chains may help but if it ain’t broke don’t fix it!
Yeah it isn’t broke so I haven’t had any need to fix it. Chains might be a good suggestion if I ever needed more traction but my concern is they might tear up the roads and make them even more slick
I really like your tractor/winch combo. Keep it going for as long as possible.
Most of my time in the woods was with a 1960 Ford 601, a small two wheel drive tractor with no skidding winch. It was great for being able to maneuver around trees...just keep your thumbs out of the spokes of the steering wheel! Four wheel drive is nice but once you hook up a heavy log or two and lift up there isn't much weight on the front tires anyways. Some ag tires and or tire chains would fix your traction issues relatively cheaply but they would tear things up a bit more.
It is so rare that I have traction problems, I have ever really even thought about seeking more traction. Chains are a good suggestion but I think you are right they would tear up the road. The problem at least here when you tear up the roads next time it rains it gets slicker than ever.
Could you give a little biography at some point like your career history and how you long you've been doing this and how you got started? Love your videos. I've always thought about productivity even when small logging but you've explained the why not on that perfectly.
I have thought about doing something about myself and my history. I haven’t decided how to go about doing it. Just do a video about it or maybe a live stream Q&A. if I can catch up on dying trees maybe I will have more time for other content including that.
I agree with you 💯. That's the smart way of thinking. I'm the same way
I could tell you were a smart one.
@@WilsonForestLands have you put any antifreeze in your tires. If not that will help. If that doesn't help. Put chains on it as well
In the 30 years this tractor has been in the family, I don’t think anyone has done anything to the tires other than put a little air in them sometimes. I always assumed they probably have fluid in them. It’s very rare that I don’t get enough traction so I’ve never got chains and haven’t done anything to get more traction. My concern with chains is they would tear up the roads. Then next time it rains it will get really muddy.
@@WilsonForestLands well make sure if there's any fluid is in them. Put antifreeze in it so you don't have to worry about it freezing in the winter.
A new personal best! Two cameras down! That camera man needs a stern talking-to. Inattentive so and so...
(Thanks for the shout-out and paraphrase of my credo: Start where you are, use what you've got and do what you can.)
Couldn't view this latest before as we had some folks over to pick up a Barred Owl nest box, a Screech owl nest box and Bluebird box, but raining too hard for a tour.
Another good'un and a Likeroo to boot.
Cheers from your wet and shivering neighbor to the north.
Yeah that camera guy is getting about as bad as my sound guy. Sounds like Bird boxes are a hot item. Only mildly damp and mildly chilly here to the south.
Just discovered your channel! Great stuff. I love logging with my old 2wd IH354. Only need to pul 1-3 logs anyways!
I skidded tons of logs out of the bush with a 135 massey ferguson.I had chains and always tried to cut in frozen winter,or dry late summer to fall.Worked just fine.
Not too ridiculous, but good common sense. Great logic!!
You speak like a businessman who knows what he is doing. Keeping your overhead low means that you have less things overhead that can fall on your head. {Financially} There is a lot of wisdom in your reasoning why not to go out and buy a bunch of expensive equipment. Great respect for you.
“ less things overhead that can fall on your head” that is a good way to say it.
@@WilsonForestLands I just love your channel. I always get a smile on my face. A great mixture of common sense and humor. You also give me a chance to get out in the woods, even when I can't get out in the woods. Thank you.
Thanks that's a refreshing point of view to hear voiced on CZcams. I followed channels because they did what they could with what they have with intelligence and skills rather than cash. As the channels get bigger and get more revenue they become buying equipment channel. When they don't have any more than a few days work a year for the equipment.
Thank you and very well said.
Ahhhh, I knew I had seen ya before. I checked your other vids and turns out I just watched your vid about why the Silly big angled back cuts? Love your vids and totally agree with all you said. Greetings from the farm near Battle Creek, Mi.
That's a really nice setup you have
Two ways of making more money. Work more or spend less. As I get older I find myself concentrating on the needs more than the wants. Compared to milling with a chainsaw and packing boards to the truck on your back like I do, I’d say your operation it top tier! I sure WISH I had your tractor! 😉👍🏼
Thats a nice way of thinking. We do get carried away buying stuff without thinking sometimes. It woud be be an option to change tires , those industrial type is not optimal for offroading. Also, it would be nice to visit your area. We do things a bit different here in Sweden. But some sure do it your way.
Great video!
Saluti dal Italia Firenze da noi in Italia i boscaioli usano i trattori forestali dt 4x4 per questo tipo di lavoro con il verricello e i trattori agricoli e forestali 4x2 2wd vengono con attrezzature tipo lo spaccalegna idraulico o la sega circolare o la cippatrice!( Complimenti bel video e il tuo massey Ferguson vintage è super! Buon natale 2023!)
I've had both 4wd and 2wd. I live in Ohio where we get plenty of mud. The time I needed 4wd was probably about the time I should have just stayed out of the mud. Once you get a large enough frame size tractor I think the 2wd is more than adequate. If you are constantly loading weight on the rear with the 3 point such as skidding logs. Well most of the weight is transferred off the front tires anyway so 4wd is less effective. Like you said. All depends on what you are doing with it.
Doing good with what you have, nice land you have
Thanks, I do enjoy the land.
Good job. I myself like to work in my forest in Sweden. To help me, I have an old forwarder who is doing well 👍
I agree with you tractor argument. I drove 4wd tractors at work and its a big pay day to keep the tires good and there is more things that can break even though most of them are made good but still another upkeep. I say with 2wd tractor it gets most of the work done. I do not personally need to head out to the forest to pick up my logs during winter instead I use a snowmobile. Fell the trees that needed felling for firewood or maintaining. If I need big logs then I use a manual winch to tug the logs under nearby tree or good position for me get it with the tractor during spring and if its for firewood I cut and stack them also under a nearby tree and put a tarp corded around them. Never had a problem to process that wood after snow thaw out where I go and pick them up either with my log winch or wagon. -BUT- if it is a nice freeze before snow comes I usually can pick out the logs in beforehand with the tractor and winch cause that is pretty much the easiest.
Anyway what I wanted to say was that no matter how you do things there is surely another way to do it. Its just about preferences. Just as in do I need a 4wd car? Sure it would be nice during winter but in my 2wd car I might get stuck once per year? Is it justifiable to spend the money on a 4wd car then? Its a matter of opinion really. I firmly believe in those things as small steps. I may not have 4wd today but maybe in a while you lock yourself to the goal on having one you save a little until you got enough money to spend it. If people like to take out a loan go ahead but I am not that kind of man that wants things quick and easy then to figure out that I need to pay off loans and high interests rates just because I got a little needy.
Hope it is not hurting anyone but just displaying my own reasoning.
I like using what I have. It’s a lifestyle. Sometimes hard. Differently rewarding.
Yes it is a lifestyle. Sometimes hard but sometimes paying for a lot of overhead can be even more hard. Especially during economic downturns.
Watched your latest production before this so I'm here from the future to say it'll be alright in the end, 2WD/4WD, nobody mentioned you should get 4 horses and you would have 16 Hoof drive. That meant to be funny but you don't have to laugh.
Thanks again
I tried not to laugh but it didn’t work. 😂
Gostei muito do trator parece muito com meu trator Valmet 👍🏽
nice way too work
There's a big difference between hobby land management and making a full time living from logging !
You could chain the tyres and you probably would have got up the hill going forward. 4wd does help but on a knackered tractor with an old 4wd system it doesn’t do as much as most people expect
Four wheel drive can be handy but isn't always needed, my ol Ferguson was just 2wd and did fine, sadly she now waits for me to figure out what broke inside and repair her.
Oh and be safe sir sounds like oregon and washington coastal zones maybe in for some weather. Especially elevations like where you are will get the years first good snow falls.
That’s a sad state when they break and need repair. I’m not looking forward to when something major goes on this one. I am inland from the coastal zones but we are supposed to be getting a bit of rain here too. I think snow levels will be a little above me.
Can you use the winch to pull you up the hill?
G'day Wilson, I just found your channel I've got a ford light industrial loader 1976 model 4500 Diesel with a counter weight I've fully rebuilt it I Just stand on the diff lock if I need a bit more traction, I'll bet that hill was a lot steeper than it looked on camera. Anyway It doesn't need glow plugs burns a gallon an hour dragging 6000 pounds and can lift 3000 👍.
The differential lock is one of the keys to this tractor. This one is about the same age as yours, no glow plugs and it sips fuel too. I will be putting fuel in it soon, the first time I have had to put any in since last fall.
I'm hearing you, when that tractor finally stopped it had done a head gasket when we stripped it down we couldn't believe it was still running scored bores and pistons pulled rings worn bearing. It hydraulic locked it had had enough after fifty years well it should do another fifty now 👍.
Closing my eyes and hearing you start the tractor, I can hear my dad's old 1975 MF 178 here in Ireland. Is there a Perkins A4.248 in it by any chance?
I don’t remember what the model number is but it’s a 4 cylinder Perkins from that era.
Bigger tractors just make bigger ruts. A 2wd ford somewhere in the size of a 4000/5000 will go damn near anywhere. Nice to see this old equipment still
Yep, I think there are a lot of people who don’t understand the value of not making ruts.
I run chains on my 2wd, very worth the cost.
How much cable is on your winch besides that 100' choker you have? Is winch cable 7/16" also?
This cable is 165 feet. I have another one that is 220 feet I can put on if I really want to reach out. The long one is quite a drum full and reduces the pulling power so I run the 165 the majority of the time. They are both 7/16. it’s a good size for this winch as well.
It's possible a set of chains for those rear tires might do more to help than 4 wheel drive??? Depends on how deep the treads still are. Mine are so bare I have chains on year round just to get any traction.
It’s so rare that I need more traction, never felt need to get chains. My concern with chains is they are hard on the roads. When the soil gets disturbed, next time it rains it gets even more slick
Are your tires filled with something?
You could in theory just add a winch to the tractor sure it's a pain in the rear but it would get you up the hill even if you had no wheels. Just write in white paint 4 wheel drive on the wheels
I do use the logging winch on the tractor to pull the tractor sometimes. I forgot to mention that in the video. Hah, funny about the white paint. 😂
So true! Do with what you have and you'll be smarter for it. Some make a living out of cutting other people's trees, and they are only interested in how fast they can cut. Your principal still apply. When they ignore it they end up in a pile of best and thousands of needlessly cut trees.
Hey, how about chains for the front??? Just kidding!
What year is it? Is it from your granpa?
It is a safety issue to have 4WD on steeper terrain. Do not load your front end loader and head down a slippery slope unless you want to take a wild ride. With 4WD you can stop on a dime even on steep down slopes and, of course you can back up them with ease too. I run my front tires on 4WD in the reverse directional pattern and this helps even more and reduced wear with heavy front end loader use. Next tractor, make it 4WD, your life limbs are woth it!
I don’t use the loader on steep terrain. I drag them down to the level places to load the trailer for various reasons. I am aware of the wild ride potential.
Don’t look at that pine lol😂
Just a thought because 4wd is a bit more money, so here's a thought " Steel tire Chains" very effective.Cant drive on concrete or hard pavement.
It’s so rare that I need more traction I never had a need to seek out things for more traction. My concern with chains would be it would tear up the roads more. With this soil, after the soil gets disturbed on the roads, next time it rains it gets even more slick. but it’s a good suggestion if I ever really need more traction.
@@WilsonForestLands Talking about soil it appears you have excellent soil in you area, it looks dark like Top Soil
The soil is a highly decomposed granite. It is a well drain soil but dfferent than a lot of granite because it does get muddy. Makes good garden soil but needs organic material to be able to hold water since it drains so well.
Downhill braking with a frontload that lifts the rear tires off the ground is all it took for me to get a 4x4
Looks like a lot of green on that tree
Them old Massey 100 series will go a lot of places and if it can’t you probably don’t need to go there I have a 135 and use it for managing hardwood forest in Arkansas
Very well said.
Do you have fluid in your rear tires? If not that will greatly improve your traction at a low cost.
I have wondered but I don’t know. I doubt anything has ever been done to these tires in the last 30 years it has been in the family. Aside from putting air in them when they get low. It’s so rare that I need more traction that I have never pursued anything to get more traction.
Think any tractor with a bucket has fluid in the tires, or you'd likely bounce out with any load.. Can u use the winch and drive in reverse at the same time, or is there a lock out? Not so much for climbing but if u were stuck too deep in the muck
Yes I can use the winch at the same time. I was actually surprised I backed up the hill as far as I did. I was originally planning on showing how I can use the winch to help myself back up hills in the video. After I got up to where I needed to be then I forgot to even mention it. Occasionally winching myself into places or out of places has come in very handy.
Looks like youre doin fine to me.
✌️🍩
Cold weather is your friend wet muddy ground just sucks.. it damages ground and the ecosystem work in the cold when possible.
Cold muddy ground is about all we get in the winter. It rarely gets cold enough to freeze the ground. I sometimes wish it would.
Never under estimate forestry tire chains for tractors. That is something to buy if you really want to, otherwise, a decent enough set can be made at home. It wont have rge awesome tread studs. But it'll give extra traction. Though grooving the lugs of your wheels will also help a little. Adding rear weights will help as well.
Tire chains would likely chew up the soil on my roads. Then the next time it rains it will be even more slick than before. When my roads start getting muddy enough to have traction problems, it’s time to stop driving on them.
@@WilsonForestLands That is true and a real downside to using chains i agree. There's not really a easy answer to how to get around when it's mildly slick, which will only get worse and certainly more rutted if driven over and soft spots get wallowed out enough to hold water. Which will just keep the surrounding ground wet making holes bigger in time.
Keep it safe out there and the rubber side down.
The winch and some snatch blocks will make up for the lack of four wheel drive when things go sideways…😉
And they have done just that more than once. 😁
Chains?
I just wanted to say that it looks like your front rim may be not be completely round you can just take a hammer and hit it back where it should be 7:30 in video but if you don’t touch it it probably won’t bother anything seems like it works fine as it is
Yeah I did that a few weeks ago, caught it on a chunk of wood. Straightening it up is on my to do list. 😁
I get jealous of the fantastic land a lot of Americans have. Almost totally flat and not a single rock.
I know the camera erases a lot of unevenness, it looks like driving on a dinner table everywhere.
Here, the ice age left a lot of rocks. Even 4 wheel drive won't get me far here, I have 8 wheel drive on my forestry setup. 🤮
I get stuck between rocks and need to use the robson drive on the trailer nearly every load I haul out. Granted, my tractor is very small with small wheels. Bigger wheels handle rocks better. But then everything else gets bigger too.
I have almost the same tractor except it’s a 40 not a 30 does yours say made in Mexico somewhere down on the block or transmission also tire chains go a heck of a long way with getting around with a 2wd tractor
Yes it says made in Mexico on the transmission. I don’t use tire chains, they would tear up the roads, then the next time it rains they will be even more slick
having dead trees in your forest is also good for the ecosystem. gives life to all sorts of insects
IMO, for what it's worth. You don't need a new tractor, you need new rear tires for sure. Maybe to retro fit a grapple if you're feeling froggy. Lol
I do get that froggy feeling every once in a while. 😁 With the weight of a grapple in the front, I would be more likely to need four wheel drive or more weight in the back to compensate for the weight being taken off the rear. It’s very rare that I don’t have enough traction and these tires are pretty decent still.
What saw do you use ?
He has a Ms 462
Yep what he said. 462
Nice One if you don't spend it you don't have to erne it I have been told Thanks
That is a good way to say it.
2wd is for fun and 4wd is when you have no other choice
2:48 not ridiculous at all. This is 'sustainability' in so many ways.
That MF'er still gets the job done
Use what you got one is not better than the other in all situations.
Four wheel drive? You need eight hoof drive and two horse powers. 😀
How about just a set of tire chains?
They would start chewing up my roads, then next time it rains it gets even slicker than before. It’s rare that I need more traction so I don’t do anything for more traction.
I’m sure it’s a lot steeper then it looks
hello my friend
Hello 👍
I have a 1975 MF 30 gas .
So there.
FINE!!!! 😁
bro chill
If you get a 4 wheel drive remember to not ask to much out of the forks or bucket. Front loader equipment is the worst thing in the world on steering knuckles and drag link components.
That is a good point I hadn’t thought of. I imagine a lot more costly to fix on a 4 wheel drive when they do wear out.
But just imagine after your 4wd tractor is paid for with increased production…..the extra profits when you have lower overhead.
If my goal was to make profit, I wouldn’t be doing this.
@@WilsonForestLandsyeah man I hear ya.
Sometimes being busy pays more than money can. Provides a sense of accomplishment.
OK this said that he can't go uphill he's got a winch 😅
Dump some of air out of your tires, you have more tread on the ground.
If I needed more traction I would but it is so rare that I need more traction, I haven’t done that. But I always know the option is there if I get into a pickle.
I have a 2wd Kubota never needed 4wd
If only you had a D6 😉
One day we will bring it out and it will do a debut. 😁 I probably would have done some road work with it this fall if I hadn’t been busy dealing with all these scattered dying trees.
@WilsonForestLands I have had quite a few of my trees die also. Just burned 2 of my pines this afternoon to get things cleaned up. We need another visit. Just been very busy. Looks like you have been too.
If you still have those sugar pine I could come take a look at them sometime and visit. I was going back and forth on the idea. It’s a shame to see good sugar pine go to waste, although right now I have more wood than I know what to do with as it is.
@WilsonForestLands that would be fun. With this weather I will probably have a little free time.