I tried ILFORD XP2 in C41 and Black & White Developers. What a film!
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- čas přidán 15. 07. 2024
- In this video.....
CHAPTER POINTS
00:00 Intro
00:59 Parkhurst Forest
03:12 C41 Film
05:52 Pyro Film
07:21 Yashica MatG
08:23 Lost
11:54 All Photos
12:43 Final Thought
In this video I try Ilford XP2 Film in C41 and also in 510 Pyro developers.
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EQUIPMENT USED IN THIS VIDEO
CAMERA - Yashica Mat124G
FILM - ILFORD XP2
DEVELOPER - Cinestill C41 & 510 Pyro
STOP & FIX - ILFORD/FOTOSPEED
ENLARGER - DURST M605
PAPER - ILFORD MG RESIN
DEVELOPER - ILFORD MG
STOP & FIX - ILFORD/FOTOSPEED
PRODUCTION GEAR
CANON 6D, GOPRO 7 BLACK, Gopro 10 Black, TASCAM DR10L MIC, SENHEISSER SHOTGUN MIC,
NEEWER LED PANELS, GVM COLOUR PANELS, Valoi 360 Film Holder System for scanes, Zeapon Micro 2 Motor Slider,
Editing - FCP, PHOTOSHOP, LIGHTROOM,
ABOUT MY VIDEOS
If my videos inspire, create ideas and help others in film photography and darkroom work then it's worth making them.
I always welcome comments that are useful towards the video subject that will help others understand the process within.
Keep shooting and thanks for watching.
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Really enjoyed this video, seeing the same film developed in C41 and B&W chemistry. Both results are super. If anything I prefer the character that the B&W chemistry offered, but that could be pyro specific. Thank you for such an informative and inspiring video.
I love how the community is helping each other out, but the last 3 videos contain many comments about C41 that are *misunderstandings*. I hope the following is helpful:
1. C41 was developed to be used easily in stores. Hence, it is substantially easier than developing B&W, but you have to stick to a few rules. Ignore them, and the results will be off.
2. Temperature is cirital. For B&W, the temperature is close to room temperature, so keeping chemistry at the correct temperature is easier. For C41, you need 39C (102F). If you are just 2C off, your results will suffer, e.g., having a magenta cast when too warm. You will need an accurate sous vide, and the chemicals have to stand in the water bath until they are at 39F, not just until the bath is warm. Now comes the big misunderstanding: You do not need to keep the water bath warm once you start as the developer just takes 3:30min. Blix should be used at less than 40C. If you get a magenta cast, you are running development too hot. Do not pre-rinse; if you insist, do so for a min, not longer. You do not need the fixer, but it does not hurt.
3. Don't get lazy; if you use anything but distilled water, it may show, and the effects are sometimes difficult to trace back (and I do not mean watermarks). Rinse for at least 5min.
4. Don't read too much into agitation; most info only applies to B&W because the chemistry acts so much longer on the film. There are two possibilities here: Invert every 30 sec for 4 times, slowly (this should take you ~ 10 sec or more. Alternatively, rotate constantly by hand (or a Jobo), but then you need to cut your time by 15%. This is important. If you agitate too much or constantly rotate too quickly, it will show, and you will not like the results. The C41 set is good for 12-16 rolls; if you use it for more, you will start seeing it in your results, even if this sets in slowly. While you can safely ignore the suggestion to add more time after each roll, you certainly need to do this occasionally. Keep it simple and add 30 sec every 4 rolls. Make sure you have no air bubbles by tapping the development tank on the countertop after every agitation step.
5. Also, as you only have 3.5 minutes, pour in the chemicals quickly and then agitate constantly for the first 20-30 seconds. You may have heard this before, e.g., when discussing bromide drag.
5. You absolutely *cannot* just invert the negative to get anything near reusable results. You can also *not* just subtract the orange mask as the effects differ between highlights and shadows. If you do not want to use Negative Lab Pro, use the free Darktable or RawTherapee software; both have special functions for proper inversion. Darktable handles this very nicely, and you will see a big difference after applying the steps for highlights and shadows. It will only take 10 sec.
6. While most color-negative film does not handle underexposure well, overexposure (often used as an effect these days) will lead to changes in color.
7. ECN-2 is an entirely different beast. Cinestill film is rated for C41; depending on the situation, you may have to adjust your EI for usage with ECN-2 to get the best results. Cinestill is a cinema film; you can get very nice results with ECN-2
Thanks Jay for this educational comment. Appreciate your time writing.
But, for XP2 there is a lot more flexibility with C41as you don't really have to worry about colour shift from temperature or developer age.
that intro went way harder than was needed lmao well done
Awesome work, great shots, thank you for sharing the info.
That's some awesome film. Of course, it matters what's behind the camera as well. Great job, mate!
Cheers Scott
Thanks Roger. XP2 is now my go to film. It's so versatile and you can push and pull without problem as you know. Thanks again.
Yes John I was surprised by the latitude.
Don't worry about getting lost. Just enjoy the wall and scenery and discover new things. Nice video and thanks you. This film is truly a great one.
XP-2 worked great with Caffenol !!!
I have a Yashica 124G as well and you can get some beautiful sharp shots from the Yashinon lenses in them. having said that, I have a Yashica 635, dual format TLR that takes 120 and 35 mm film with the adaptor kit. they mostly use the Yashikor lenses which can also produce very sharp images as well. love the shots you got, and I know from experience with XP2 that is has almost no grain as well. an underrated film.
The photographs you showed were beautiful and highlight the inherent qualities of the XP2 Super very well. I usually rate the 135 XP2 at iso 250 in C41. It helps with shadow detail, even further reduction in grain and overall better tonality. I process it for 3.15 @ 38 C in my Jobo processor. As for XP2 in B&W Chemistry, it does much better when rated at iso 100 in the likes of HC110.
I have a couple more rolls. I might try that at 100 in 510 Pyro. I did cook the pyro negs though ha ha
Personally my choice is @ISO 200 in C41, so not much different
XP2 is in my top 3 stocks. I adore it. Great video as always Roger :-)
Great video and wonderful photos, love the image at 7:09
Many thanks Will!
..hi Roger..awesome comparisons..looks like XP2 ..has the edge and quicker dev times...also appears scanning holds up really well
It is a really nice film Nicholas. I think it's best in C41 as intended but even BW I got good results (even though I cooked the negs)
Thanks for all the effort of putting this whole video together! Never liked XP2, thought it was just for people who want to shoot BW and still using the 1 hour photo shop. Might give it a second chance now! -- Funny that part about getting lost in the woods! Analogue solution is of course using a map and a compass, ha ha.
It's a good film. I had the same thought as you years ago and never touched it.
Before I bought some B&W chemicals I used to shoot XP2 because my local lab could process for me I still have a few rolls in both 120 and 35 mm it’s what I call a safe film results are always acceptable great film I really should shoot it more thanks for the video Roger 👍🏻
Cheers Jonny
Those Ektar frames are gorgeous; you nailed the development. XP2 is a phenomenal film and is the last of it's kind, being chromogenic.
Thanks Rappler.
You can shoot XP2 at EI as low as 50 (three stops overexposed) and get usable negatives, or you can shoot at 800 without any change in development. At 1600, it doesn't hurt anything to push a little, and a two-stop push in C-41 is very practical. Then, if you have separate bleach and fix (or just use B&W rapid fixer instead of blix) you can gain about 2/3 stop real speed by developing both the silver and dye images and keeping both in the film -- which makes EI 3200 a reasonable level and 6400 just about possible. So, with some development adjustment, that's EI 50 to 6400 *on a single film.*
If I could only have one single B&W stock for the rest of my life, the only thing disqualifying XP2 Super is that it isn't available in sheet film sizes -- 35mm and 120 only.
Back in the day (untill 2000's I guess) XP2 WAS available in sheet film...
@@tomislavmiletic_ Wish it still was -- I've never shot color in 4x5 but I'd pay for XP2 Super in that format if I could get it.
Oh, but that was XP2, not XP2 Super. "Not enough demand to reformulate for sheet film."
I just did a roll of xp2, shot at 200 and developed in ddx, came out beautifully. even a couple that I accidentally underexposed bc I forgot to amount for the filter lol. those were noticeably thinner but once I adjusted my scans they were pretty much indistinguishable from the rest.
Hi Boss love your stuff. Just a tip about getting lost - there are many GPS programs for your smartphone - you will have a lot of fun using one of these APs and when you have got the hang of it "never be lost again!" almost as much fun as shooting B&W. Mark
Cheers Mark
The split contrast filter use is a brilliant way to go! I wish I would have know about that back in my darkroom days! some 26-30 years ago! I think I liked the results from the Pyro development better! Great all around though! LOL, looks like you need to invest in a handheld GPS unit for the hikes in the woods!
Nice work.👍🌟🌟🌟
I have used XP2 and its predecessors since the 1980's. It is my favourite general purpose B&W film due to its latitude and fine grain. I always rate it at ISO 200, but if I have to I can shoot at up to ISO 800 on the same roll and still get usable results.
As far as woods go though, I am with you. They are messy and composition can be very difficult. I would not use such a camera in woods as to get best results a short telephoto is better. It cuts out messy foreground detail and unwanted sky.
As I said on Facebook, the grain on XP2/C41 is virtually non existent. If you use a Paterson focus finder (as you and I both do!) Then use a substitute neg! Alternatively, choose a scrap neg and scratch the emulsion. Great vid as ever. I look forward to the next one!
I had that in mind Bill, cheers for that. I could see detail in and out under the focus finder and also on the baseboard.
I agree about difficulty with woodland photography. I'm always hoping for fog to simplify the scene. You came away with some wonderful shots. Glad you found your way back to the car😁
Or a strong beam of light to really highlight one area more. In Florida we have too many vines and thick brush to get a clean composure for my taste.
The forest looks beautiful in person but messy on camera - at least for me. I envy those with a knack for woodland photography.
Yeah, maybe it's overthinking Amalie. Take it for what it is. I'm glad I found that tidy part.
Steve O'Nions is the master of woodland photography on film in a variety of formats. If you study his videos, then you will see how he does it. Usually, it involves a long exposure at a small aperture on an overcast day.
@@NandR Bring the background, a 2.5x5 feet 7in1 reflector will do
Thanks for the video. Personally I preferred the look you got with the pyro. I have a roll of xp2 that needs developing. I think I will go down the black and white chem route!
Yeah it was more contrasty but I did over develop with the Pyro.
I’ve got a few of rolls of XP2 developed in stock ID11 for 14:00 minutes @ 20 degrees under my belt, and I’m “Super” happy with the results!
Some nice photos again as usual 🙂. BTW there are apps for your phone that will track where you're going in the woods so you can find your way back! On Android GeoTracker is one that I use when I go wandering 🙂
Thanks for the tip! Mine just shows a pointer Paul
Nice results!!! I have never used the film, but I have read that since it's C41 you can use digital Ice when scanning so it can clean up dust!!!
I don't have a flatbed Brian but I Imagine so.
I was wondering if somebody would point this out, and you have saved me the trouble, but yes, this is correct.
Nice shots.
Thanks!
John Blakemore has a great portfolio of intimate landscapes, often forests. Can be very tricky as contrast can be extreme on sunny days.
I get great results developing XP2 in HC110 dilution E (1:48) rated @ iso 100 for 5 minutes, iso 200 for 6:30, & iso 400 for 10 minutes.
The only B&W film that comes close to being this smooth is Fuji ACROS.
Hi, when you develop at iso 100, also expose as iso 100 with the camera? that´s pushing down or pulling the film ?
I´m not an expert, thanks
Watched this episode a third time ..I think I processed my xp2 in c41 about 30 years ago..need to find negs ...I will grab a few xp2 for the UK tour next week ..however I will use c41 ..since the chemistry is based on dye sublimation..so for digital guys that will be like pixel shifting...
Kodak also has (or had?) a C-41 B/W film called 400CN. Until a few years ago they sold it in drug stores here in the US and I used to use it because I could drop it off at the drug store to get it processed, leaving me free to just print it later. I noticed that the 400CN also had really super fine "grain", if you could even call it that. I'm not sure how the chemistry works, but it had that characteristic. It is a pretty good film and I wish it was still readily available. Then again, I'm not sure how many drug stores still process film these days, so there is that.
I've never seen that!
I have a roll of xp2 going through my bronica atm. Good to know that I'm safe if I have metered wrong.
Ektar is my go to colour film if produces beautiful colours
Nothing more entertaining than seeing roger geting lost! Lol. Great shots.
ha ha
@@ShootFilmLikeaBoss at least there wasnt any barbed wire this time!
My favorite B&W film.
Nice for seascapes I would imagine
Yes definitely for smooth grain free sky
I used to love XP2 but it's become too expensive (in South Korea) and I found that I didn't like the negatives when they're developed in B&W chems. If the price ever drops again, I'll happily give it another go :) But for now, I'm quite happy using HP5 and Kentmere 400. Tried Rollei Retro 400S and really liked the contrast!
Yes it's pricey and really meant for c41.
Really enjoy your work. You made a point of using the 124G's light meter and its accuracy. What battery option/workaround are you using?
Cheers Wayne. I'm using a weincell battery inside . It's been good
Honestly I never knew you could develop this film in standard B&W Chemicals. I’ve got a few rolls which have been sitting in the fridge which I have been reluctant to shoot. I think I will need to get out and shoot it sooner rather than later 👍
You can do it basically with every film.
@@lindemann316there's even a video here somewhere of a chap doing Kodachrome in b&w
WhatThreeWords your car location before you wander and get lost.
A great, informative vid as always Roger. Cheers.
Just downloaded it... Cheers.
I like the images but did you see the hunters blind when you ran out of film? It looks like a little tent... I also like how the lower brush was cleaned out in that area, I'm from the USA, Iowa and they do a large amount of hunting in my area no matter what the weather is... I prefer shooting with a camera. Love your channel and I'm surprised you don't have more people looking.
Thanks Anthony. Those hunters blind are made by family and kids. We are not allowed to hunt in those woods.
Cool, I have some Kodak chromogenic 400 BW and T400 CN, I am planing to process them on BW chems Ilfotech CH or Parodinal, will I have a heavy mask , like I HAVE WITH A STANDDARD color film?
👍
Your neg base looks pink/magenta in the pyro, so the staining effect probably hasn’t worked, and of course the stain helps retain highlight detail. I believe HC110 works well with Xpan especially at higher dilutions.
Yeah I was expecting darker negs.
You can overexpose by four stops and have a brilliant neg for scanning. The highlights become compressed, and have immense subtlety. Meanwhile, the shadows glow up, with detail and good contrasts in the blacks. Midtones are to die for. An amazingly good, versatile film.
I didn't go that far William. Should have really looking back
Roger, try XP2 in Kodak HC110 @ 1 to 38 for 8 minutes 20c, ilford standard agitation works very well
I've never used HC110 Martin 😬
@@ShootFilmLikeaBoss great developer and last forever , very versatile , mix it 1 to 38 fir around 8 mins will do most films
I used a deep yellow or a orange filter XP2 and liked the results, but my problem is< no one carries film anymore!
Lost in the forest, all those trees… I was beginning to wonder if I was watching Blair Witch… 😳😏. Anyway, great stuff once again. Thank you.
I like how they assumed you were lost in your garden. =p
I have a sense of direction similar to yours, unfortunately.
My wife says if you think its left, go right
@@ShootFilmLikeaBoss Lol. That is probably good advice for me too.
Hahahaha, you put that clip in after all 😅😂
Yup! Lol
That thing where the viewing lens sees something slightly different to the taking lens is called parallax. Not really sure why I know that.
I wonder if the films latitude for over and under exposure is to do with it being a c41 film, since different iso films are processed at the same times in the c41 dev.
Wouldn't have a clue how it works Mads
Great video again. And apart from getting lost again, all turned out well. I've only recently got back into film photography. And find your channel inspirational. I have 2 rolls of XP2 to develop. ( 35mm and 120 ). I only have one developer. ( Paranol S ). The massive Dev chart doesn't mention any times for this developer with XP2. As I'm new to developing film , I cant even guess accurately. Some say it's similar to Rodinal. Any suggestions?
I've never used that developer Andrew. I have heard it's similar so I would (if you cant find any times) try rodinal times.
@@ShootFilmLikeaBoss many thanks for your reply. I'll have a go. 🏴👍
I've been using Paranol w/ regular B/W films and really like the results. I haven't decided if it is the same or slightly more dilute than regular Rodinal. I'm leaning toward Tetenal's engineers' liking a denser negative hence the longer times. If you try XP2 in Paranol I would try increasing 3-4 minutes over the Rodinal time on the Massive Dev chart. I'd be curious to know how it turns out
Excellent video mate. Forest inspiration.... tree's, tree's and more tree's, have you looked at the book 'LISTEN TO THE TREES' by JOHN SEXTON. He worked with Ansel Adams as a young man, and has since gone on to make several books. A brilliant inspirational photographer. 'QUIET LIGHT' is another beautiful book. The plates in the book's are stunning reproductions, much of his work you can Google, and interviews with him on utube. Looking forward to seeing your next video.
Cheers Kit. I'll check him out
Nice Video again 👌so I didn't quite understand if it may be possible to get it developed in a lab in the ordinary c41 or if it's only possible ar home with the c41 chemicals but different temperatures and cooking times. Thanks in advance and best regards from the cold baltic sea 👌
Ilford XP2 is designed for Labs to develop in C41. So yes you can easily have it developed by a lab :)
@@ShootFilmLikeaBoss thanks for your replying! After I took a look on the films box, I saw the C41 labeling :D the online shop didn't write it into the specifications
I can definitely understand when you say the woods are "messy." I love the forest, but I'm especially terrible at landscape photography.
If you were getting a phone signal then it probably stands to reason that you were fairly close to civilisation. If you are in a similar situation, follow the electricity pylons, if there are any.
Back in the day XP2 prints used to always come back from 'boots' with a sepia or blue tinge. I always assumed it was from the negatives and didn't consider XP2 to be a 'real' black and white film. Seems I was wrong :)
Roger, you have that fancy phone, no google maps ? Great, I didn't know , such a B&W film, for C-41 processing still was available . Nice contrast. KB.
I did use it Ken lol
Hi Roger! What di you think about pan f?
panF 50? It's a very good film.
I process XP-2 at 400iso in B&W chemistry, generally with Kodak HC-110b for 6minutes with results similar to what you got using the staining developer. I don't have two prints for side-by-side comparison but wouldn't that make a good video ?
I did put two prints side by side, unless you mean a staining dev and, say, Rodinal?
Hi Roger. I have a question for you or anyone who have experience with type of film; is it ok to develop Color Film rolls and also rolls of this B&W Ilford XP2 simultaneously using the same batch of c41 chemistry? Or is it better to have 2 sets of chemistry and develop only XP2 films using 1 set of chemistry and use a different batch of chemistry to develop color films separately?
Carmine terverna on CZcams did just that recently after my video and he got no issues with it. Hope that helps
@@ShootFilmLikeaBoss thank you Roger. It will be very practical and convenoent if it is possible to use the c41 chemistry simultaneously for boh, color film and XP2.
To save getting lost, try what three words app on your phone.
I shall look at that Martin. Cheers!
Do you fix your 510Pyro developed films with a alkaline fixer just as John Finch recommends,or do you use a "normal" fixer?
I use FX30 from Fotospeed which is Alkaline (or as close to it) and doesn't wash the stain away.
Seeing that the meter in the 124G working, did you have any issues getting a battery for it, Rog?
I was wondering the same, I thought it took a mercury battery
As far as I know, both the 124 and 124G take the mercury battery, but I also understand there's a replacement that's supposed to make due. Curious which Rog is working with.
I was sent the battery by a guy in Germany called Sebastien. It's a weisscell. (I think). But yeah the meter does work well.
How slow a shutter speed are you able to handhold using the TLR?
1/30th I'm comfortable with but slows me down trying to keep steady before I hit the button.
I've done 4 rolls in id-11. The one I gave to snappy snaps disappeared, so it's 4:0 to B&W for me.
That was a shame!
Just like Kodachrome makes you think all the world's a sunny day, black and white makes you think the weather feels comfortable in a forest ,not too hot not too cold. And just go into any unmanaged forest and it's an instant L.A.R.P. medieval re-enactment backdrop.
This is the only black and white film I've used as I shoot alot of colour so that way I do t need to have lots of different chems.
Makes sense Steve
XP2 is the film I suggest to anyone wanting to get started with film photography
Interesting. Not FP4. HP5?
@@ShootFilmLikeaBoss C41 is easier to get developed around here and even though I’ve found a wonderful lab that can process traditional black and white the turn around time is a lot shorter for C41. Also the wide exposure latitude helps beginners who might be afraid of over or under exposing their film.
On a completely separate note Roger to all the comments on developing C41 etc, I couldn't help but notice that your video footage had very little detail and at times it looked as if you were wandering through a watercolour forest. Was that the GoPro footage? Light looked more than adequate, but I have heard that even the latest GoPros can be iffy in low light.
Yes GoPro 10. All gopros are iffy in low light. I have it set to auto exposure when I walk about. Cheers
Since you are getting lost all the time maybe you should invest in some Apple AirTags. Put one in your car and you should be able to find it again if you have an Apple phone. My wife was a little more harsh, she wants to know how you can get lost on an island like yours. As for the images the prints from the pyro negs were very contrasty but the c41 negs looked to have a very nice range of tones. Of course hard to really tell from looking at the images on the computer screen
The Pyro were cooked! I need to do the same but maybe a12 mins instead of 20! Good idea re GPS. I'm android.
How do you manage to get lost so often?
I go off track and before I know it I don't know which way is out. I could end up walking ages in the wrong direction ha ha
I didn’t know you could develop XP2 in a black and white developer either. Which delusion of the 510 did you use, Roger? You have me wondering what odd results I might get with a roll of color film developed like this. I don’t expect perfection but I’m curious!
I used 1:100 Sean. But I over developed as I winged semi stand for 20 mins! I had no info to go by. Next time I'll try 12 mins.
You don't see grain because there isn't any. C41 developed negatives don't contain any silver
Of course they convert to dye Uwe
Great video Roger. Glad to see you are making full use of our C41 chemicals. For those who shoot colour we have managed to get hold of some significant amounts of Adox Mission film. Check out our webpage for more info. Sadly the price has gone up but beggars can’t be choosers! Best wishes from everyone at silverprint.
Never lost, just a might confused.
Take a GPS phone or other device with you.
Get yourself a compass?
Not lost..misplaced 😒
Ha Ha. Yeah, I misplaced the car.
If you are lost in the woods, just look at the sun, in the morning it should point to the east.
Oh wait you lived in the UK...
Ha ha. Can't see it today. I still live in the UK
I would like to challenge you to shoot nothing but portraits for 30 days. We’ve seen you shoot portraits before, but challenging yourself to shoot nothing but that for a month will give you a chance to stretch out your process when approaching something a little more complex than non-moving objects. How about it? ❤️
I used to have a portrait studio. And my good friend owns a model agency. Not sure I could go 30 days though. I'd get bored after 3 days lol. Unless I had really interesting faces
No point to present this film, if you don't show the settings for each picture so we can judge the under-exposed, and overexposed comparing with the normal exposure. Disappointed by this video.
ah well