Can Dark Samus OUTSPEED Samus? -- Random Smash Ultimate Facts
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- čas přidán 8. 09. 2024
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Watch their walk cycles. Pretty sure it has to do with how their animations cover a larger distance but with a slower step. Bet most of them aren't matched in actual speed of step but are in total frames travelled, which is why their values are matched on that site.
It might actually be the character’s acceleration values, as those are separate from the actual run. I’m not sure, but I think I saw in a different video (a long time ago so take this with a grain of salt) that Dark Sami’s has a higher acceleration value than Samus
It could be the length of the walking animations that causes the difference in speed. Every pair of echo fighters whose speed was consistent had identical walking animations, the only outlier being Samus and Dark Samus whose walking animations are completely different.
Dang, you beat me to it, i was gonna mention this too!
Sem.
Same
It could also be the actual speeds having further decimal points than listed
@@squirrelwithabanana That wouldn't really affect things - a constant addition or multiplier to slightly different values will still just result in slightly different values.
Also, Dr. Mario's walking speed is given to _six_ decimal places on the website he was using, so I doubt it's that regardless.
Would animation frames have something to do with this? Maybe they are circling their animations faster with this setup?
I too think the walk speed has to do with the walk animation
The bunny hood makes the animation play faster
same thing i thought
Yes, that's my guess too! Something that I appreciate about smash's walk cycles is that when a character places their foot on the ground in a walk cycle, they are actually planting their foot and pushing off from it. Their foot placement corresponds to taking actual steps on the ground. This is different from a walk cycle with an arbitrary walk speed value attached to it, where the feet would appear to slip and slide across the ground because the walk animation and walk speed dont actually correspond to each other.
My guess is that, in order for walk cycles to appear visually consistent and corresponding to actual foot steps on the ground, this animation quirk somehow influences a characters effective walk speed with stat changing buffs
That's what I was thinking.
I have a weird fun fact: on the kid Icarus stage right when viridi blows up everything and the stage transforms. If you use Bowser's final smash while no floor is visible it's possible to freeze the game in a moment where everyone will fall to there doom. I got that once online and managed to win due to that. I don't know if it works with other final smashes as you need one who can stay quite some time out. So i guess things like zero suit Samus and put could work too
If you saved it you should upload it.
This sounds easy to replicate at least so that is a cool fact
I remember actually, at the beginning of ultimate when people were making videos about out-running big blue, samus and dark samus actually had different speeds there too! I think it has something to do with walk/run acceleration? I could be wrong tho
Yeah the only thing I can think of that would cause this is different acceleration values, but apart from Ryu and Ken I don't see any reason why an echo would even have a different acceleration than their counterpart.
Actually you're right they have different acceleration
I just have to say, the fact that you synced up the position of the fighters at 5:52 when transitioning is awesome. The dedication is crazy.
5:02
Can we appreciate how well the “READY TO FIGHT” button appearing syncs up with the background music
I think the reason for these bunny hood inconsistencies is because the bunny hood walk and run speeds are entirely different values instead of being multipliers, and the devs messed up when setting them up (or simply forgot for Palutena's case).
13:27 I actually noticed that when I tested this weird thingy about Sephiroths Final Smash, I think it makes sense considering that a bunch of Cutscene Final Smashes have a limit on how many characters you can hit at a time (also it would be kinda stupid if you had to watch the whole cutscene in case only the 2nd Climber gets hit instead of a real player)
12:50 "Mewtwo is the buttend of a lot of unfortunately designed elements..."
Showing a clip of Mewtwo's tail hitbox.
8:27
Was I the only one who didn’t know that that was a motion censor bomb? I just threw it whenever it would appear
Bowser’s idle taunt thing has the smoke he breaths go directly downwards when under the influence of the timer
I haven't played the game in at least a year and these facts are incredibly negligible, yet I keep watching your damn videos! Honestly, you speaking ability, script writing, and attention to details is super impressive. It's always a good day when you upload.
The whole speed difference may be because of animation speed.
Here's a theory
What if dark samus is actually faster than Samus, but the difference is so small that it gets rounded off when looking at the numbers
12:35 yeah, from what I've seen mewtwos tend to just ledge release jump fair rather than using getup attack anyway
If you play Lucas, get launchedby any high knocback move and then use your Final Smash while flying, you are going to be offcentered between Kumatora and Bonnie.
Btw, the higher the knockback, the more offcentered you get
I think is the same with Ness.
I remember pinging you on Twitter about the get-up attack one! I thought that was right up your alley.
When you are playing Classic mode, with the hands as the final opponent, there a really cool thing that can happen. when you ko the last hand, while it is spazzing out in the background, you actually cant die by jumping into the blastzone. if you try to jump in, there is a invisible barrier that will keep you alive. this obviously only works when the hand is already koed and is blowing up in the background
There isn't even a barrier (you can notice the background in the bubble scrolling as you fall), the blastzones are just straight up disabled.
@@GoldMario777 you can also use aerials, which proves there is no ground
Fun fact the Beastball is the sickest item in smash Ultimae
Maybe walks have a cycle animation that, when sped up, effects how fast they move...? Faster you get through the cycle faster you walk?
This makes no sense, it's just a guess I had that I didn't hear mentioned, I don't see how it would make sense though.
I've been holding on to this one for a while (as it might give you a competitive advantage), but for whatever reason, Lucario's Up-B does not follow the usual ledge grab limit unlike every other character (usual limit is 6 I think)
i think he addressed that earlier
maybe in the video next to Byleth's release, might be wrong tho and im too lazy to check
Just watched the video, and I don't hear him mention it at all
Don't know if this is a glitch, but if you use hammer flip but let go of it right before the flames come out, then the hammer is black but there aren't the flames when it swings. Please like so pk beats can see this.
Pretty sure this has to do with the animation cycles- maybe the cycle of feet hitting the ground? Would explain why Palu, Dark Samus, Mewtwo, etc are the problem cases. Weird but interesting nonetheless!
random smash fact: if you play on fountains of dreams and you run on the ground the dash particle is absent wile if you do it on the platform it is there
My hot take is that, it seems that Dark Samus is faster is because the speed grows over time, so the speed multiplier added must be affected by the speed growth.
0:07
I remember that!
I feel like an og!!!
Maybe the traction system has something to do with the different walk speeds
Fun fact: When you are outside of the wall on Shadow Moses Island and the wall rebuilds, it pushes you out of the wall instead of letting you stay out there, you can even see your character clipped into the wall.
Back at it again! Loved the vid.
by brother you have not been here long enough to finish the video
@@matthewcabagelover9993 2x speed 🚄💨
Maybe the different walk speeds have something to do with the decimal numbers? Those numbers were wrongly translated from Smaus to Dark Samus and all the multipliers that they're given changes their walk speeds by a little bit, and the same can apply for the other testes (as to why this doesn't happen with any other echo they've coulda just copy pasted them)
It appears to me that it has to do with with what speed curve characters speed up with and that the bunny hood scaling just does *funky math*
The reason Palutena's speed didn't change with the bunny hood is because she has a very low run speed cap, the lowest of any character at 3.750968, and the spirit set already reaches this speed cap.
This also applies to the Samus and Dark Samus as well as the Young Link and Mewtwo fact. They use different animations so they have different walk speed caps, so one is faster than the other.
Marth/Lucina, Pit/Dark Pit, Roy/Chrom, Peach/Daisy, and Simon/Richter all share the same animations with each other leading to the same walk speed caps.
You can apply these same factors to the other characters you mentioned, also I'm too lazy to list them all
11:03 pretty sure the double backfire affects everything, not just players
You mentioning the Cucco activated my Google Assistant. ...on the very device I'm watching on. 🤔
I think the running thing has something to do with the animation, characters with slower animations will walk slower even if they have the same walking speed
Your content is insanely good, keep up the great work.
9:40
>”if kirby swallows a character and gets on the scale, he does not weigh more”
>proceeds to show kirby swallowing a character, getting on the scale, and weighing more
Unfortunately that's not how the scales work on the stage, the difference there was due to my timing being off. If something really weighed more, you'd see it drop the platform to the bottom, like with the Steve example at the beginning. The fact that the scale stops moving at all means the weights are the same
Ohhhh, alright, that makes sense. I thought I was losing my mind lmao thanks for clearing that up
1:26 "Very Slightly Faster"
- PK Beats 2022
The Final Smash air glitch kinda reminds me of the Brawl one.
0:15 I REMEMBER IT LIKE IT WAS YESTERDAY AND IT WAS 2 YEARS AGO!?! WHY CAN'T I REMEMBER WHAT I HAD FOR DINNER LAST WEEK!?!
Walking speed/running speed are max speeds. There's a number for acceleration speed too. An example could be seen with ZSS with a bunny hood on big blue. The bunny hood could change the max speed and accel speed. So while a character might start off faster than another character, if they were able to run forever, they might reach the same top speed
the walk and run speed difference i think is because the animation, the setup you use to speed them up changes their speed by affecting the speed of the animation, but they end up doing more steps of long steps or tons of steps so it is likely a change of step speed rather than speed as a whole which is causing the difference
The Bunny Hood thing probably has to do with the animations. Walking animations tend to be quicker than floating running animations, so the Bunny Hood adjusts the walking speed disproportionately compared to what it should be
The aura that cloud gets when he has limit disappears when in training room and you do the frame by frame mode, and stop
Good videos as always pkbeats!
I think Steve's anvil is weightless because only one person is on the scale, Steve isn't on the scale he's on the anvil
Maybe it has something to do with animation? Samus walks upright while Dark Samus does the glide thing, so their body is pitched forward while Samus's isn't. I think it might be related to their ECB/hurtbox, if anything at all. Mewtwo does lean but maybe the tail means that they're still relatively centered, while Young Link definitely leans forward all the way; Cloud leans noticeably further than Shulk too. It would also explain why all the other echoes stay the same, since Dark Samus is the only one that doesn't share their source character's walking animation. Chrom doesn't seem to pitch forward as much as Corrin though so idk, it's probably either unrelated or not visible without frame data
My theory is that friction affects speed modifiers. As far as I know different characters have different friction and the fact dark samus takes a tiny while longer to reach full sprint speed made me wonder if that could be it. Or at least a contributing factor.
One could probably test this by seeing how long it takes for characters to fully stop out of their walks and/or runs and seeing if there actually is a correlation.
The cutscene final smash thing is interesting. I accidentally used joker’s final smash on a player who had JUST been KO’d in stamina mode and they weren’t in the cutscene, so it looked like the phantom thieves were attacking nothing
12:47
Oh god he’s doing the melee thing
10/10 hot sauce collection 👌 2:19
2:15
Sephiroth becomes Mr Krabs for a Moment.
My theory is that each character goes a set distance in a set amount of time(ex. Samus goes 10 pixels per 5 frames and dark Samus goes 20 pixels per 10 frames) and the bunny hood sets their speed to 1 frame. But that's just a theory... a bad theory!
That’s not how any of this works
The game uses positions based off of in-game numbers, not pixels
I think the movespeed thing may be based on animation speed. Easy way to test would be to get the complete opposite setup, I guess.
Oh, also, on Kirby/Wario on the scales - canonically, Kirby has an infinite void inside his mouth, so weight doesn't affect him. And in Wario's case, the gas SHOULD theoretically make him lighter?
It probably depends from a difference in the walk acceleration value(It's a value in the game's data that defines how fast a character accelerates from standing to max walk speed and it works exactly like Air Acceleration just by walking
4:19 "You're easy breezy, and I'm Japanesey."
well yeah, as a trivia, palutena doesn't really touch the ground as she runs in smash so uh
i think you have your answer
and you can argue that dark samus doesn't either but they're way lower than palutena so i guess that can be counted as touching the ground
characters like sephiroth and meta knight, who have been proven to be unaffected by this error are also a lot closer to the ground.
Yayyy!!! Another PKBeats video~
I don’t usually comment on videos but I have a theory. The walk speeds of other echo fighters with identical walk speeds wasn’t changed, but individual characters with identical walk speeds were. The website might show the walk speeds to the third decimal, but what if there were more integers involved? These wouldn’t be noticed in regular playing, but with the multipliers from spirits, wouldn’t a fourth decimal place have more of a noticeable effect on the walk speed?
Samus and Dark Samus might have identical walk speeds to the third decimal, but unlike other echo fighters, maybe Dark Samus has a higher walk speed than Samus. Such as 1.1151 vs 1.1152?
Had a weird fact I thought was worth checking. So apparently if you use Lucario's final smash on specifically on Yoshi Story, instead of shooting from center stage he shoots from the left for some reason.
I haven't tested it with other ones, but I feel like fs like Robin's or Ike's might do it to. Maybe the game thinks it's center srage for some reason
The GB Dreamland stage in Omega/Battlefield forms is the only stage that Jigglypuff's final smash doesn't go over. Proof that it's actually in the foreground?
Maybe it has to do with the fact that the animatons of wapking/running touch the ground? Like while a float that has a foot sliding actoss the ground?
I swear to god every video I’ve seen in the past 2 weeks is sponsored by sakuraco and Tokyo treat, I should try getting a sponsor Lol
12:54 JEEZ LOL
Fun fact: in stamina mode if you use Clouds final smash on a character and that character dies by the initial hit, Cloud still does his animation of attacking. I did it against Zelda specifically and laughed so hard when it happened. LOL
Fun fact, if hero is holding an item, his shied doesn’t block projectiles. For example, if hero is holding peach or daisy’s turnip, then hero can’t block projectiles.
I know this sounds dumb but some part of me feels that the floating characters are slower due to a delay. This is very noticeable when you turn. Especially with Mewtwo there seems to be a delay starting up the walk and a delay with turning while hovering. This is just my take on it.
maybe its as simple as the walk speeds having more decimal points than is displayed on that website
It's cool that Inkling's Splattershot can push things away
a day late, but can we just appretiate that transition on the walk speed bit?
So all of the fighters have three decimal walk and run speeds. I seem to remember m2k mentioning that the game can store info down to 3 decimals. Meaning when you push it to extreme exaggeration like this you can finally see the difference between a speed of 1.260 and 1.262
i think the bunny hood doesn't increase speed, but instead decreases the time between each step. for floating characters, their step rate still had to be defined despite not actually taking steps. this could explain how characters with the same speed are affected differently with the bunny hood, as faster steps become even faster, resulting in speed increasing more than expected
I'm upset that you didn't flash a picture of Robin or something when you said that the scales were "tipped" during the Steve stage
I feel it could be something to do with the steps they take. Like if some character has longer steps, making it faster makes it cover more distance?
Maybe the Bunny Hood just affects everyone differently? Or it could be a mistake with Dark Samus (and other fighters, really) where they accidentally use some data from Smash 4 instead of Ultimate, like how Daisy used to have Smash 4 Peach turnips, and that the Bunny Hood just worked different last game
nope
It's probably just walk animations of different lengths, so they loop at different rates.
I wonder if you can wall jump off Lava (while invincible of course)
Maybe Steve’s anvil just doesn’t have him on the scale, and so the anvil weighs less than Steve? Maybe if you got off the anvil and stood next to it
I think the fact that someone is standing on top of something (anvil or box) & not touching the scales is what makes it not register the persons weight.
I have a theory for why this is the case with dark Samus. Ken’s focus kick is considered a punch based on the spirits that are affected by kicking or punching moves, this is because it was copied from ryu. Dark Samus is copied from Samus who’s running animation isn’t floating. Since the animation is different it allows Dark Samus to animate faster and thus move a little faster. Palu was made in her own way separate from almost every other character you referenced so her float is probably a mistaken aftereffect from smash 4.
Bunny Hood doesn't increase speed, it speeds up your animation, so it isn't consistent on exact speed increase
I think it’s the acceleration that effects Dark Samus being faster than Samus, but idk about the others
Okay, so, I was thinking: _Dude, PkBeats has been a while without uploading videos, I hope he uploads today cuz I'm quite bored and I crave some smash facts._ And I just opened CZcams and this is here, coincidence, maybe, but such a welcome one!
Another weird fact about samus/dark samus, but samus’s rolls (both forwards and backwards) are 3 frames slower than dark samus’s.
I was gonna ask about the animations how the bunny hood increases the animation speed, but everyone else said it first. What if you tried to find out how many times the animation is sped up by. There might be a constant. Maybe do the same to the floating animations and if the floating animations are sped up by less, then I think we have an answet.
P4's musics are really enjoyable.
They can put a hurtbox on his tail but not a hitbox?
I think the walking speed has to do with the footsteps the characters take, for identical characters they take the same length footsteps but for different character the speed of their legs and length are different maybe?
It may be the video (which by the way, good video), or it may be as a reference that Dark Samus, in itself in the Prime saga (and the only Saga where we have seen it lol), is faster than Samus herself, I mean, have you seen the urges Dark Samus gets as we go up against her in both Echoes and Corruption? :p
keep up the good videos my friend
Is it maybe a hidden decimal point? Maybe the walking speed is identical in all practical senses, however there is a smaller decimal point that is hidden on the site you found the stats on?
I remember Pjigles jump tear list samus and dark samas jumps were just a little different. Samus was more highly then dark samus
The bunny hood does weird things with animations. In Melee you can do a double jab as Ganondorf when you normally can't (it doesn't do anything though). I think it could be where the animation starts or ends and how it repeats that gets changed
11:00 Doesn't the backfire effect that slows everyone down slow everything else as well, not just players? Not that it'd make the background mess up, since the background is changed during the timer
Perhaps the stats are rounded to the nearest hundredth? Samus and Dark Samus could have the same reported speed, but the true speeds could be 1.235 and 1.243 (idk there real speeds.) this difference would be nearly imperceptible normally, but could be noticeable with a multiplier
I would say it's a third invisible decimal place
Does kazuya wavedash go faster than his fox trot?
Yes
Have you considered the thought of acceleration speed? Because I'm pretty sure not all characters have the same number in that stat. From what I remember it exists definitely from the dark samus and samus situation. Maybe try the captain falcon stage with hazards off since it makes it so you don't need as much speed to keep up.
Perhaps the written speed is rounded to the hundredths place? And that makes the difference, but I don't know