Hey Bro I super appreciate your sharing. Just a couple of thoughts. Standard Banana planting is 3m x 3m which would be around 100 plants per 1000 sq meters (1/4 acre). Banana circles are great but you probably won't end up with more in a given area then you would with planting in standard spacing. I also want to mention the idea of planting on contour. This will give us the maximum amount of water retention and soil building while simultaneously utilizing the space available. In our Agro-foresty systems (food forests) we plant everything on contour with the general pattern being: double hedgerows comprised of vetivere and a nitrogen fixing plant (flemengia macrophylla, lucanea, ect) on contour spaced at 8-12 meters depending on what you will plant in between. We plant our fruit trees 2 meters above these hedgerows to take advantage of the natural terracing that will take place from soil buildup above these contoured hedgerows. The hedgerows are chopped and dropped on a regular basis for mulch and green manure. We place bananas between every fruit tree and also put at least one row of bananas between the fruit tree line and the next line of hedgerow. The role of Bananas is multifaceted. One being...very fast production of food within one year and good for everything from human food, animal food, flour, vinegar, etc. The other important role has to do with succession. When we are creating these food FOREST systems we are basically wanting to mimic a natural forest while providing for the human element. Our goal is to speed up succession...the bananas are a great tool for this by providing very rapid shade. By providing this shade weeds and other early succession plants are culled out much faster allowing later succession plants to grow and create a more mature system much quicker. Thanks for your contribution and please stay in touch with us. We are living in Costa Rica on a Permaculture Homestead and also developing Eco-Villages. Check us out @ www.crcnl.org My e-mail : inpurelight@gmail.com B
Can someone talk about diseases that affect the banana? For example where I'm from the black sigatoka fungus is devastating banana crops. Commercial farmers have to spray their plants with chemical fungicides every two weeks!! How can we mitigate the effects of this in an organic way? I know that in a polyculture setting the spread of this fungus will be limited but if we were to use the banana circle in this way won't the fungus be spread in the same manner as in a monoculture setting? I love the idea of a banana circle though!
Thanks Nicholas. You give me an idea how to use my 1 hectare lot in the tropics. I quit farming back in 1996 and work abroad because of the expensive cost of fertilizer and some other stuff needed to grow high value crops like banana. I will try to do Permaculture when I get back to my country. Kudos!
We live in Oklahoma and were thinking of building a pit greenhouse next spring. I really want to grow some tropical fruit and thought it would be best in our climate to rely on thermal mass to maintain temps that could grow bananas. I think I will try this method when it comes time for our banana experiment.
Maestro gracias por compartir tus conocimientos, agradezco al Gran Ajau el haber tenido la oportunidad de conocerte y compartir conocimientos you are awsome Sir.
Thank you for explaining how it actually works! We are planning a permaculture inspired home and garden in the Jamaican tropics and are definitely implementing the banana circle! We want to try the coconuts as well, would the same dimensions work(6Feet across 3Feet down)?
Hello, great video, very informative - thanks! I have a question in relation to grey water systems and banana circles - I have heard that bananas are good for recycling the nutrients that are found within the greywater systems in a few places - so does this affect the rest of the banana circle guild plants at all if you have it watered from a greywater source? Would this just be better at cleaning the water as there are more species to take up the various nutrients? Or should you have the water go through another system such as a reed bed first or just banana plant?
My mind is spinning I'm trying to think of what I can grow in North Dakota in these circles I somewhat do that now and people look at me and think I'm nuts and they think it looks messy I love it I can grow so much and share so much with actually not having really any land at all and I do it mixed in with flowers so it brings in pollinators and birds and things
If you see this question. I was asked when making a banana circle what prevents it from bexonibg anaerobic? I haven't encounteted this problem in building quite a number of them. I was perpelexed to explain why this doeant happen, though i syppose it could happen witg to much nitrogen. But air isn't passing through like it could in conpost heap and it holds much more water. Any insight?
Thank you for the demonstration. I live in the sub-tropics, and I'm having a hard time picturing how twelve mature banana plants plus companion plantings of taro and yucca are going to have enough room around a 6 ft. diameter circle. I would like to see footage of one of these banana circles with fully mature plants to accept it can work. You can make a lot of things fit together in a drawing, but does actual practice yield the same tidy result?
Lawrence find me on facebook and I will send you some photos. I am currently in San Marcos off of Lake Atitlan for a few more weeks if you would also like to come here to see similar designs. Nicholas Burtner
Don't bananas freeze to the ground in winters, even in Texas? I am south of you and haven't ever heard of bananas lasting through the winter. I wonder if I can apply this to peaches or some other fruit tree.
Hi great video thanks for sharing. I have a Q can this be done but half size ? 1/2 meter deep, 1 meter diameter and just 6 banana trees? Also double check can fruit and veggies scraps be thrown in the center like a normal compost or only garden cuttings ? thank you
You know it will work at half size. It may not break down the compost as fast. And yes you can throw your veggie scraps in there no problem just be cognizant of vermin. I'm now offering 30 minute free consultations over zoom if you'd like to discuss it further. online.schoolofpermaculture.com/consultation
Thank you for this very great video. I have a question that may seems naive for you but I am not a gardener yet so I might to too theoritical. Why don't you design the banana circle in a way that the roots of banana's trees and other plants lie under, or at least at the same level that the organic matter in decomposition? It seems to me that the majority of mineralzed nutrients will be released at the bottom of the pit. I also think that the root system of the banana is not deep enough to reach those nutrients that will leach down leading to soil and water table pollution. What would you say about trying to do the opposite? I mean set the organic matter on the edge of the circle and the banana's trees inside the pit? Please, tell me your thought and what tells your experience. Thank you very much
I have been thinking about doing something like this here in Germany, and i am wondering if it works with apples or other fruit trees that grow well here. Of course i would have to reconsider the size of the circle according to the manageable size of the trees, but that only takes some research. Same goes for the appropriate support species. I can imagine that Bees would benefit from this very well, together with chickens that would go wild on the compost pile in the middle, especially when some of the fruit drops there. I would be happy if you could reply with any thoughts on this idea, improvements, whether or not it makes sense to you, and if i have to look out for certain things, that i might not consider. I know it might be hard for you since you seem to be experts on tropical climates, but i respect your knowledge none the less
Hi there, when you talk about having one side "higher" than the other side (around 12 minutes). Do you mean higher up the slope on the land, or the piled up dirt should be higher? hope this isnt a confusing question.
Thank you! I enjoyed your video on banana circles. If I understood correctly, one would dig a 3 ft hole and 6 feet across. If I were to do a papaya circle, would it be the same measurements? Thanks Again
hi there! today i will do a banan circle in brazil northwest region. its a common permaculture use here. But i will go back soon to my country (argentina), to buenos aires. I would like to know what can i do there. which type of species i can use. thanks!!!
I've heard of this before from Bill Mollison. Great to see an elaboration on the matter. I've heard you say temperate climates could also use this strategy. Would the Netherlands be possible at all? It has an average temperature of 11 - 13 degree celsius (53 F). My guess is not quite, but nonetheless do you have a video about using this at temperate climates? I'm very interested, and this was interesting, thanks!
A bit late but, it's not easy in the Netherlands but it's not impossible either. There are some species that will survive (palmvrienden.net/lapalmeraie/2009/09/winterbescherming-bananenplant/) but the banana plants we are used to seeing will have a hard time making it through the winter. The problem is not so much the average temperature in the Netherlands but the lows and the frost in winter. Als je het gaat proberen, succes!
Is this diagrammed in a book anywhere, its a bit hard to see on that small diagram. Are you saying on the outside of a 6 foot hole you have 12 or 13 banana trees? That would be about 3 feet apart them, is that right? It seems kind of close together. So, the center is a compost pile, and you plant other things between and under the bananas ... but how do you feed everything? Simply by adding organic matter to the hole in the middle. Can you add fertilizer in there as well. Do you ever use the middle of the hole area to grow anything? Interesting ideas ... can wait until I can get a chance to apply them.
Maybe this will help. Just scroll a bit down on the page to see the diagram: treeyopermacultureedu.wordpress.com/chapter-10-the-humid-tropics/banana-circle/
Hello Nicholas ! I need it in a smaller version ( i want to fit them between my fruit trees). I'm thinking 4 ft wide, 2 feet deep, 3 banana plants. You think it could work well ?
@@gilbertosughrue3766 I built the circle but my banana plants are too big to transplant it so I've just decided to mulch the whole thing for a while until my other plants make a pup I can transplant. My soil is absolutely awful so hopefully it'll get to the point where it can even reach the nutrients in the hole with it's roots
Thanks for the question. We would not recommend doing this techniques out of the tropics without peculiar circumstances such as your area in the temperate climate does not ever get frost.
Thanks for replying. I am in Utah, I believe we are what is considered a semi arid, temperate climate with four distinct seasons and tropical trees won't do well here. I was wondering specifically about apples, pears, peaches, maybe cherries. I love this idea and I'm looking to add several fruit trees this year so I wondered if it might work
Jeff I would not recommend this for stone fruit. However, countour planting with subsoiling is greatly beneficial for small scale plantings. Swales are also good and especially good for larger landscapes.
It's silly connecting the circle design to the circle of the banana fruit, like there was some kind of inspiration there. That's total nonsense and decreases the speaker's credibility.
The reference to "GMO farmers" is unnecessary and ignorant. There are no GMO banana farmers. Hopefully that will change soon because there are some good traits out there being developed by Ugandan scientists (including beta carotene fortification and resistance to black sigatoka).
GMO will destroy organic crops by interbreeding. We need to protect the surviving diversity. I think we can utilise GMO in the lab for medical purposes. That is where GMO can serve us best.
There's much to unpack there but I won't. Instead, I'll note that this video is talking about bananas & my comment was about bananas so we'll look at that. Let's you try to interbreed GMO bananas with regular ones. Again, they really only exist at some research facilities but we'll ignore that. As for your breeding efforts, I'll wait a very, very long time because you can't do it.
Hey Bro
I super appreciate your sharing. Just a couple of thoughts. Standard Banana planting is 3m x 3m which would be around 100 plants per 1000 sq meters (1/4 acre). Banana circles are great but you probably won't end up with more in a given area then you would with planting in standard spacing. I also want to mention the idea of planting on contour. This will give us the maximum amount of water retention and soil building while simultaneously utilizing the space available. In our Agro-foresty systems (food forests) we plant everything on contour with the general pattern being: double hedgerows comprised of vetivere and a nitrogen fixing plant (flemengia macrophylla, lucanea, ect) on contour spaced at 8-12 meters depending on what you will plant in between. We plant our fruit trees 2 meters above these hedgerows to take advantage of the natural terracing that will take place from soil buildup above these contoured hedgerows. The hedgerows are chopped and dropped on a regular basis for mulch and green manure. We place bananas between every fruit tree and also put at least one row of bananas between the fruit tree line and the next line of hedgerow. The role of Bananas is multifaceted. One being...very fast production of food within one year and good for everything from human food, animal food, flour, vinegar, etc. The other important role has to do with succession. When we are creating these food FOREST systems we are basically wanting to mimic a natural forest while providing for the human element. Our goal is to speed up succession...the bananas are a great tool for this by providing very rapid shade. By providing this shade weeds and other early succession plants are culled out much faster allowing later succession plants to grow and create a more mature system much quicker.
Thanks for your contribution and please stay in touch with us. We are living in Costa Rica on a Permaculture Homestead and also developing Eco-Villages.
Check us out @ www.crcnl.org
My e-mail : inpurelight@gmail.com
B
Can someone talk about diseases that affect the banana? For example where I'm from the black sigatoka fungus is devastating banana crops. Commercial farmers have to spray their plants with chemical fungicides every two weeks!! How can we mitigate the effects of this in an organic way? I know that in a polyculture setting the spread of this fungus will be limited but if we were to use the banana circle in this way won't the fungus be spread in the same manner as in a monoculture setting? I love the idea of a banana circle though!
There were some experiments in Costa Rica with biochar. The thesis was said to be available. Look for estufa finca videos. Good luck!
Thanks Nicholas. You give me an idea how to use my 1 hectare lot in the tropics. I quit farming back in 1996 and work abroad because of the expensive cost of fertilizer and some other stuff needed to grow high value crops like banana. I will try to do Permaculture when I get back to my country. Kudos!
This is such an exciting video, I'm very grateful!
We live in Oklahoma and were thinking of building a pit greenhouse next spring. I really want to grow some tropical fruit and thought it would be best in our climate to rely on thermal mass to maintain temps that could grow bananas. I think I will try this method when it comes time for our banana experiment.
Great demonstration - thank you.
Maestro gracias por compartir tus conocimientos, agradezco al Gran Ajau el haber tenido la oportunidad de conocerte y compartir conocimientos you are awsome Sir.
Knowledge is power….
Thank u sir
Very Informative! Thank you!
Thank you for explaining how it actually works! We are planning a permaculture inspired home and garden in the Jamaican tropics and are definitely implementing the banana circle! We want to try the coconuts as well, would the same dimensions work(6Feet across 3Feet down)?
Doubt it. Coconut circle may need to be a little bigger their leaves get huge.
This is a nice idea, But we usually feed the banana stocks to the chickens or ferment it as silage for the pigs. Natural Farming :)
Hello, great video, very informative - thanks! I have a question in relation to grey water systems and banana circles - I have heard that bananas are good for recycling the nutrients that are found within the greywater systems in a few places - so does this affect the rest of the banana circle guild plants at all if you have it watered from a greywater source? Would this just be better at cleaning the water as there are more species to take up the various nutrients? Or should you have the water go through another system such as a reed bed first or just banana plant?
great video , will try it out
Thanks guys! Cheers from Aus! ;D
My mind is spinning I'm trying to think of what I can grow in North Dakota in these circles I somewhat do that now and people look at me and think I'm nuts and they think it looks messy I love it I can grow so much and share so much with actually not having really any land at all and I do it mixed in with flowers so it brings in pollinators and birds and things
Hi! I would like to make a productive coconut palm circle and at the same time maximize the space. What dimensions do you recommend?
If you see this question. I was asked when making a banana circle what prevents it from bexonibg anaerobic? I haven't encounteted this problem in building quite a number of them. I was perpelexed to explain why this doeant happen, though i syppose it could happen witg to much nitrogen. But air isn't passing through like it could in conpost heap and it holds much more water. Any insight?
Thank you for the demonstration. I live in the sub-tropics, and I'm having a hard time picturing how twelve mature banana plants plus companion plantings of taro and yucca are going to have enough room around a 6 ft. diameter circle. I would like to see footage of one of these banana circles with fully mature plants to accept it can work. You can make a lot of things fit together in a drawing, but does actual practice yield the same tidy result?
Lawrence find me on facebook and I will send you some photos. I am currently in San Marcos off of Lake Atitlan for a few more weeks if you would also like to come here to see similar designs. Nicholas Burtner
mind blowing / like
I live in south Florida but our lot is flat without any running water. Can I plant on flat land and use my hose to irregate the circle?
Don't bananas freeze to the ground in winters, even in Texas? I am south of you and haven't ever heard of bananas lasting through the winter. I wonder if I can apply this to peaches or some other fruit tree.
How long should we keep the circles? Dont they gonna expand?
Hi great video thanks for sharing. I have a Q can this be done but half size ? 1/2 meter deep, 1 meter diameter and just 6 banana trees? Also double check can fruit and veggies scraps be thrown in the center like a normal compost or only garden cuttings ? thank you
You know it will work at half size. It may not break down the compost as fast. And yes you can throw your veggie scraps in there no problem just be cognizant of vermin. I'm now offering 30 minute free consultations over zoom if you'd like to discuss it further.
online.schoolofpermaculture.com/consultation
very heloful is sandy soil best for such a practice?
Tku great explanation !
Homestead Wannabe very welcome!
Thank you for this very great video. I have a question that may seems naive for you but I am not a gardener yet so I might to too theoritical. Why don't you design the banana circle in a way that the roots of banana's trees and other plants lie under, or at least at the same level that the organic matter in decomposition? It seems to me that the majority of mineralzed nutrients will be released at the bottom of the pit. I also think that the root system of the banana is not deep enough to reach those nutrients that will leach down leading to soil and water table pollution. What would you say about trying to do the opposite? I mean set the organic matter on the edge of the circle and the banana's trees inside the pit?
Please, tell me your thought and what tells your experience. Thank you very much
I have been thinking about doing something like this here in Germany, and i am wondering if it works with apples or other fruit trees that grow well here. Of course i would have to reconsider the size of the circle according to the manageable size of the trees, but that only takes some research. Same goes for the appropriate support species. I can imagine that Bees would benefit from this very well, together with chickens that would go wild on the compost pile in the middle, especially when some of the fruit drops there.
I would be happy if you could reply with any thoughts on this idea, improvements, whether or not it makes sense to you, and if i have to look out for certain things, that i might not consider.
I know it might be hard for you since you seem to be experts on tropical climates, but i respect your knowledge none the less
sir, thanks for sharing this. may i know what would be the circle diameter, depth of excavation and spacing if i apply this principle in coconut?
can I do it in flat surface ???
Hi there, when you talk about having one side "higher" than the other side (around 12 minutes). Do you mean higher up the slope on the land, or the piled up dirt should be higher? hope this isnt a confusing question.
Hi brother ..can we grow 6 moringa + 3 banana + 3 papaya in the diameter of 8 feet with depth of 3 feet ..pls tell me..tnq
Thank you! I enjoyed your video on banana circles. If I understood correctly, one would dig a 3 ft hole and 6 feet across. If I were to do a papaya circle, would it be the same measurements? Thanks Again
Lyn, Yes you can use the same measurements for a papaya circle.
Can i put organic fertilizers in the pit?
Can you use some other trees like figs?
hi there! today i will do a banan circle in brazil northwest region. its a common permaculture use here. But i will go back soon to my country (argentina), to buenos aires. I would like to know what can i do there. which type of species i can use. thanks!!!
I've heard of this before from Bill Mollison. Great to see an elaboration on the matter.
I've heard you say temperate climates could also use this strategy. Would the Netherlands be possible at all? It has an average temperature of 11 - 13 degree celsius (53 F). My guess is not quite, but nonetheless do you have a video about using this at temperate climates?
I'm very interested, and this was interesting, thanks!
A bit late but, it's not easy in the Netherlands but it's not impossible either. There are some species that will survive (palmvrienden.net/lapalmeraie/2009/09/winterbescherming-bananenplant/) but the banana plants we are used to seeing will have a hard time making it through the winter. The problem is not so much the average temperature in the Netherlands but the lows and the frost in winter.
Als je het gaat proberen, succes!
Is this diagrammed in a book anywhere, its a bit hard to see on that small diagram. Are you saying on the outside of a 6 foot hole you have 12 or 13 banana trees? That would be about 3 feet apart them, is that right? It seems kind of close together. So, the center is a compost pile, and you plant other things between and under the bananas ... but how do you feed everything? Simply by adding organic matter to the hole in the middle. Can you add fertilizer in there as well. Do you ever use the middle of the hole area to grow anything? Interesting ideas ... can wait until I can get a chance to apply them.
Maybe this will help. Just scroll a bit down on the page to see the diagram: treeyopermacultureedu.wordpress.com/chapter-10-the-humid-tropics/banana-circle/
@WalterDeRooij Thanks Walter, great link 👍
Will much appreciate dimensions for coconut circle. Thanks
Fabian Lyimo 15-18' in diameter. Same depth. Can get up to 50 coconuts. Garden the center hole. Break down and use coconut husks as mulch.
Hello Nicholas ! I need it in a smaller version ( i want to fit them between my fruit trees). I'm thinking 4 ft wide, 2 feet deep, 3 banana plants. You think it could work well ?
how would this work with coco trees
I really want to do this but my banana trees aren't making pups fast enough (i only bought 2)
Build the circle and your plants will produce more pups with the extra food from the pit.
@@gilbertosughrue3766 I built the circle but my banana plants are too big to transplant it so I've just decided to mulch the whole thing for a while until my other plants make a pup I can transplant. My soil is absolutely awful so hopefully it'll get to the point where it can even reach the nutrients in the hole with it's roots
Theory?
I don't have a slope my land is flat?
We live in N Florida zone 9b our banana plants die back every year in this area. Will this method work for me
Thanks for the question. We would not recommend doing this techniques out of the tropics without peculiar circumstances such as your area in the temperate climate does not ever get frost.
thanks
Have you ever tried something similar with other fruit trees?
Jeff, fruit trees that are heavy water feaders will work. Coconuts and other tropical ponds would benefit greatly with this design.
Thanks for replying. I am in Utah, I believe we are what is considered a semi arid, temperate climate with four distinct seasons and tropical trees won't do well here. I was wondering specifically about apples, pears, peaches, maybe cherries. I love this idea and I'm looking to add several fruit trees this year so I wondered if it might work
Jeff I would not recommend this for stone fruit. However, countour planting with subsoiling is greatly beneficial for small scale plantings. Swales are also good and especially good for larger landscapes.
That's kind of what I thought. Thank you for the great ideas!
Don't chop up grandma!!!!
Sarah Mack lol
It's silly connecting the circle design to the circle of the banana fruit, like there was some kind of inspiration there. That's total nonsense and decreases the speaker's credibility.
Uber air guitar.
The reference to "GMO farmers" is unnecessary and ignorant. There are no GMO banana farmers. Hopefully that will change soon because there are some good traits out there being developed by Ugandan scientists (including beta carotene fortification and resistance to black sigatoka).
This.
GMO will destroy organic crops by interbreeding. We need to protect the surviving diversity.
I think we can utilise GMO in the lab for medical purposes. That is where GMO can serve us best.
There's much to unpack there but I won't. Instead, I'll note that this video is talking about bananas & my comment was about bananas so we'll look at that. Let's you try to interbreed GMO bananas with regular ones. Again, they really only exist at some research facilities but we'll ignore that. As for your breeding efforts, I'll wait a very, very long time because you can't do it.