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Bass Trombone Experience Comparison - King vs Jupiter
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- čas přidán 20. 07. 2015
- In this video I compare the experience of playing a Jupiter bass trombone with a King bass trombone. Key differences between these two trombones include the bore size, bell size, and trigger linkages. I've edited a lot out of this video, as I'd started ranting on a bit too long, so if there are any continuity issues, blame my editing :)
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Love the comments about how his playing isn't great when this man can play almost literally every brass instrument as can be found...
He's no Arturo Sandoval, but his playing is definitely pretty good, better than mine. But just because he can play a lot of different instruments well doesn't really mean anything. Brass instruments are pretty much all the same, different pitches and different timbres, but the general way of playing is just about the same across the board. Once you figure out one, figuring out the others is a cake walk. The hardest part of music is learning music theory, everything else is just knowing where and when to put your fingers and lips.
royalcat10 ...what? Tell a trumpet player to try out a horn or a tuba and they'll sound like complete ass. The general method for playing brass is highly similar, yes, but the actual execution is incredibly different between each instrument, with different partials, mouthpieces, playing styles, etc. Personally, I find theory a cakewalk - it's consistent and it makes sense. Instruments are finicky, and managing to maintain musicality, timbre, and accuracy are much more difficult to me than being able to improvise counterpoint over basic chord changes.
When I said that, I meant it's much easier to learn it, not that someone can just pick up any instrument they want be just fine instantly. And in my experience that is absolutely true. I play trombone/euph as my main instrument, and I march drum corps. It didn't take me any more than a week from first picking up a trumpet in my life to be able to scream and otherwise keep up with the lead trumpets in my corps. This is a very, *very* short time considering it took them years to be able to play at that level. And I have no doubt that they could pick up a trombone and learn it in a similar amount of time. When i was learning tuba, I could play it instantly though. I could just be a prodigy not giving himself much credit, but I don't think that likely.
Something you probably know, but I think it adds to my point. Partials on brass instruments are all the same. No matter the key, no matter the instrument, it's the same. The first partial is always the 1st of the chord, the second is always the 5th, the third partial is always back to the 1st of a chord, and the fourth partial is always the 3rd of a chord. This goes on and on, but it remains the same. For example, a Bb tubas open partials are Bb, F, Bb, D. The Bb is the root (1st) of the Bb major chord, F is the 5th, Bb (again) is the 1st, and then D is the 3rd. For a C trumpet, the open partials are C, G, C, E. An F horns open partials are F, C, F, A. (In concert pitch, of course.) This keeps going for every key of every brass instrument, you get the point.
This makes brass playing all very similar, the way you breathe and use your lips and fingers will always be the same. You may hear a different note, but the way it feels to play the first, second, third, fourth etc. partial of the instrument will be the same Whether you're on trumpet, french horn, trombone, or tuba.
If you just think of a trombone like a tiny tuba, and a trumpet like a tiny trombone, then it's like you already know the instrument, you just gotta practice your embouchure and you're gold. And those instruments in reality are just tiny or bigger versions of themselves. A trumpet is half the size (4.5 feet.) of a trombone, a trombone is half the size (9 feet) of a tuba, and a tuba is 18ft. They're all just octaves a part.
royalcat10 you sir have absolutely no idea what you are talking about...
Christian Abrego I apologize if I sounded know it all-y. it wasn't my intention. I guess arguing with my general friend group has made me sound a bit abrasive to get my point across
I like your stand for the tromba in the back. 😂😂
Bass trombones are fascinating to me, I have absolutely no clue how the trigger mechanism works
your making my head hurt
***** Im a Tubist and started playing Trombone as a secondary about 2 weeks ago
BarefootBanjo i know that. i am stuck on the second trigger.
umm ok
ohhh. that's weird
I have a King Tenor Trombone with an F attachment and I love how well it sounds I just wish I could find a King Bass Trombone for jazz.
I'm a middle schooler Trumpet player, but I watch more trombone videos than trumpet videos. I did originally want to play trombone when trying out different instruments, but the trumpet was the best instrument for me I guess. Loved the video. I thought both trombones are great, but I like the king trombone. It sounds nice and the color of it looks fabulous. +1 like 👍
I wanted Trumpet, but I ended up on Trombone!
I will always have a special place in my heart for Jupiter instruments
That mouthpiece is very shallow for a bass bone mouthpiece. Try it with a Schilke 59 and see the difference in tone quality in the low register.
Are you going to play that purple tiger plastic trombone behind you I watched a video on it the low E flat sounds awesome
BarefootBanjo Brycen Tuell It's a 'Tromba' brand. Pastictrombone.com
The Jupiter's tone on the upper range sounds tight compared to the King.
Jupiter-4:34
King-3:10
Alex M Well, kind of tight, I meant a brighter tone.
+Alex Martinez (JackSLR783) I agree, but I also liked the jupiter's low register better.
@@xen0vantage542 You’d think King would sound brighter with the smaller bell. Especially since King trombones are notorious for being on the bright side of the tonal spectrum of color.
Edit: The King has a slightly bigger bore than the Jupiter. So that’s probably why.
From what I can find, the bore size on both these horns is .562. The depth the mouthpiece slides into the horn is due to the leadpipe not the bore size. The taper of the throat of the bell has more to do with the timbre of the sound than the diameter of the bell. Jupiter now has the XO line as it's pro-line and most of the bass bones are .571. I did not realize that there is no longer any King Bass Trombone in production
Jupiter sounded better
Devin Karrick | Probably because the smaller bore made it easier to play low notes with a fuller tone.
@@mr.starfish4965 It's also newer.
@@xHadesStamps That shouldn’t matter as much, so long as both horns are kept in equally good condition with regularly maintenance.
@@bobcat24 That's true. Rarely happens that way, though
this right here is my dream trombone
You sound really good on both of these trombones. :)
What a great sound!
Informative! Helpful! Intelligent!
Sonorous! Thank you Sir!
You use a Dennis Wick mouthpiece, I know that. And judging by the shape of the cup, it seems as though it is a bit more shallow than a more traditional shape. This is just a assumption, though. If so do they make small shank mouthpieces for tenor trombone?
+Sean Hendricks Hi Sean, the mouthpieces I use is a 2AL or 3AL. They are what works best for me. I'm sure they make mouthpieces for all sizes of tenor trombones.
Alright, thank you for the response.
What mouth pieces do you recommend for bass trombone? Im starting to get into playing it.
Bastions_Standing Bach 1.5G and Schilke 60.
you stopped in the variations just before the fun bit hahah, though its probably easier for me with a huge shires bass
Where did you get the sheet music for Barnacle Bill from may I ask? And also from what arrangement? Cheers
Here I wrote it out: www.sendspace.com/file/4xamrl
Been a long time since you posted that, but I would like to ask if you still have it wrote out saved somewhere? That link is broken right now. Would be very much appreciated if you can relink it.
@@royalcat10 its been a long time since this but I have the sheet music and I could send pictures or something lol
@@BassboneNelson Completely forgot about this lol.
But, if you could put it in a Google drive as a pdf or something and share that'd be greatly appreciated!
@@royalcat10 docs.google.com/document/d/1MLzj9UmYw_0_67PR_4z8cvbOwl0hEt4nz2YeY8N0vDM/edit?usp=drivesdk that should work. Sorry about my messy handwriting. I did this as a solo lol
That was awesome man!
Ve been trying some bass trombones....maybe switch from tenor.....tried several Yamaha's and Jupiter's .
Liked the Jupiters better.
One thing that super appreant in his playing is that his tongue is a big part of his sound and should not be that way but overall he isn't that bad. But with everything tho he isn't terrible.
I currently play and would say I'm intermediate/middle School advanced and was wondering if it would be beneficial or ok to try out tenor trombone or bass trombone(but start on tenor because bass bones are so expensive)? any help would be gracious!
Bach/ Strad 36B would be a great start!
I'm looking for a 3b f attachment model trombone, any recommendations that would be under 2,000? ( American money ) this would be for a symphonic use btw
New id recommend a Yamaha YSL-448G, Jupiter JTB1150FO, Both are large bore and have a 8 1/2 inch bell, although the jupiter has an open wrap, they fall at around 1800 new, but dont be afraid to buy used off ebay, as in good condition those will go for as low as 1200 or so.
I’m looking to get a new mello and Yamaha and Jupiter and my two options. I’ve heard some negative things about Jupiter valves and slides but I’ve watched videos on all of the Jupiter brass instruments and no one complained about valves not working or the slides not moving so I guess it doesn’t matter which one I get lol
What would you recommend for strictly a jazz bass trombone?
Ryan Halson probably Jupiter. That's what my school uses for jazz. Hope I helped.
depends on the price range... if you have cash, shires and edwards, latzsch, courtois are amazing, they all make the jupiter, yamahas, kings, and other cheaper brands look shit. if you dont have lots to spare, get a bach 50
Jupiter, Holton, Conn, Bach, and King. Those have worked really well for me, but if you want to spend a bit more, you could go for a Shires, Thomann, Edwards, Getzen, Latzsch, Kanstul, Courtois, Thein, Wessex, Kuhnl and Hoyer, or really any other pristine brand. The more expensive ones tend to work better for symphonies though.
The only problem with the Bach 50 is the valve configuration. The two triggers are in the same place as opposed to the second trigger being used by your middle finger.
Dude, late to the party but I play jazz. Bass trombone in a jazz band is different than orchestra and the sound you want is different. Depending on your purposes and if you ever play lead a bit like I do in combos. The Yamaha trombone sounds thinner and brighter than the Bach. It's much more articulate. If you have the choice I'd recommend Bach for orchestra and Yamaha bass trombone for jazz. I don't recommend smaller bore sizes of Yamaha.
nice horns! love barnacle Bill! that classic gold look of the king is nice! both sound pretty nice! the Jupiter seems a bit more smooth I guess, but not as full sounding. really wanna get a bass trombone one day! 👍🏻
Trent your awsome
His awesome what?
Hello Trent! Have you heard about Arnolds & Sons brand? They make replicas of Bach mouthpieces and recently I found out that they also make a bass trombone, and it looked to me that it is very similar with the Bach50A3...
Having just done a quick google and I can pretty much guarantee that Arnolds and Sons are just having their name engraved on generic Chinese instruments.
The king reminds me of a binge... it’s real heavy, and slightly bigger
+Trent Hamilton when arranging music that involves both Tenor & Bass Tbns., does the bass 4th line F sound an octave lower than the tenor 4th line F?
- Thank you, Rachelle
No. Tenor and bass trombone are in the same pitch.
Trent Hamilton Thank you.
What would you say your favorite instrument is out of all the ones you have?
Demitri Dampier Entirely depends on my mood.
On the Jupiter his lower range sounded better and on the king his higher range sounded better
The King was primarily designed for jazz and big band playing. It is tight and focused in the low register and pretty good up high as well. In the hands of a true bass player it is amazing. The Jupiter is more of an all around bass. Larger bell and more orchestral sounding. Not a fair comparison. The two instruments were designed to sound different in the first place. Nothing against Trent, I love the videos but cant get an honest review when the 2 instruments have different specs such as bell size and rose brass bell.
My favorite was always the king 8b the duo gravis
I think the duo gravis was the 6b
Hey Trent, if you haven't already, could you do a video on the Concert B Trumpet. I'm a trumpet player with an interest in it.
Mitchell Ware you mean a B natural? Or standard Bb?
I own a Jupiter tenor trombone, the slide is absolutely horrendous to operate. It makes lots of noise and it’s not smooth at all.
what is the point for the trigger?
low notes? high notes?
Low notes
How do you play *16th* notes on a *_bass_* trombone?
You just have to be good.
Same way tubists and euphonium players do it.
hey trent, I just wanted to know what bass trombone in general is the best to you, I'm looking to get one so I can still keep my low range while not playing the tuba, any suggestions?
would the king not win by default? As a Tubist, i know Jupiter is terrible and only good for beginners
I think the same way 😂
+Hayden Korn +mesirpez Not necessarily. The Jupiter is surprisingly adequate.
I'll keep that in mind as I start playing Trombone (as soon as Corp auditions are done I'm getting into it (
Yeah (on the topic of Sousaphones) I've played on many Jupiters. Fiberglass, hybrid and full brass are all stuffy and don't project well. But when I hop on that King or Conn 20k or even Yamaha 411 everything is effortless and sound projects very nicely
The Jupiter trumpet I tried was superior to all others I tried, but it was out of my price range for minimal benefit
Is Jupiter a good brand for attachment. My mother spent a lot on mine. I can't tell if she got ripped off
I've been happy with every Jupiter I've played. It's a decent middle range brand.
I've been looking Into buying a bass trombone
If you don't mind could you give me links to the Jupiter and king
Harley Pitts try the Bach Stradivarius 50B
also what does a 3al mouth piece look like?
To much with a student level bass t-bone
my vote is with the king
is the Vincent Bach 6-1/2al a very common mouth piece?
+Heath Harris For tenor trombones it is one of the most common sizes for mouth pieces, along with the Bach 5G and the Yamaha 48.
+Devon Atkinson thanks for the info!
não entendi nada. Mas gostei muito dos modelos King vs Jupter
i feel like the demonstration would be better if it sounded good
Where did you get this music?
Will you sell one?
2:44 whats the name of the music ??
Variations for Barnacle Bill for bass trombone I believe
Wow😱
Do you own any getzens?
The jupiter sounds flat
Ur able to play c in first position!
With the trigger (I believe). I only played the normal Tenor Trombone never one with a trigger.
On a trigger tenor trombone, you can also play B natural in second position. That would be a lifesaver.
Low c is TT4, or both triggers and 4th position.
Unless you have a Bb/F/G/Eb trombone. In which case it's TT5
Hi! What's the piece name?
Barnacle Bill the sailor
I had a King 6B for a long time ago and it was very nice to play it in a Big Band. Now I have a Bach strad model 50 a3 with hagmann valves. Have you ever tried Giddings mouthpieces on one of your trombones? I thunk you should try it if you never had tried a Giddings mouthpiece. The comfort is out of this world compared to all the other ones I ever tried.
No, I've never tried one.
Where do you get them?
Probably stole em from a rich Jew.
Brass Band = Drum Corps
No! No! No!. The brass band and drum corps are as different as chalk and syphilis.
Trent Hamilton omg that comparison xD, by the way I was wondering if you could do a comparison between the toner trombone in Bb and the bass trombone in Bb
They're about the same really. Their range is the same, the positions are the same, nearly everything is the same. The only difference between a tenor and bass trombone in Bb is that the bass has a bigger bell, and general wider tubing. This just allows for fuller, clearer, and easier notes in the lower end, sacrificing tone in the higher end of the instruments range. They both can play the same range, but tenor sounds better higher, bass sounds better lower.
Both bands don't have wood winds.
I meant +Derpy Fish. Sorry about that, he/she asked the difference between tenor and bass trombone. I should have noted the person in that comment.
Why can't you play your low C?
He didnt sound warmed up + he plays a lot of instruments so hes not very in practice with them all.
Double low C is a pretty hard note to hit cleanly, along with what the others said. It's low, like low low. Like really bloody low. It's literally near the bottom of the human hearing spectrum. It's ~32 hertz, the lowest audible note is ~20 hertz (an E) People who can cleanly, fluently hit that note are pretty advanced players, not many can actually do it. And remember, there's a difference between just being able to hit it, and being able to put it to use. I can hit it, I can actually play the Bb below it, but I can't use it in a song, not nearly clean enough.
royalcat10 I can't play that note on my bass trombone either.
royalcat10, I can play that note on my large bore tenor Trombone.
I can as well, I can play it on my small bore tenor trombone with an F trigger. A lot of people can *play* it, but few can actually *use* it. Would you be able to perform in front of a crowd and play it flawlessly? If you can, you're pretty good. A general indicator we use in the various groups I play with when seeing if we can use notes at the far end of an instruments range, is to try to play a scale at 180 bpm. If you can hit those notes with good intonation, you'd probably be okay. If you can't then you probably should work at it more or just don't try using such an advanced range during a performance.
jupiter has more tone
Jupiter sounds better i.m.o.
I am sax why I here
The tuba would be better.
Yeah watch the video and use your brain