Did They Mess Up With Byleth? Fire Emblem Warriors: Three Hopes Critique
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- čas přidán 13. 07. 2024
- In today's video, I go over Byleth Eisner in Fire Emblem Warriors: Three Hopes. This video will serve as a review and critique of their execution in both their role as an antagonist and as an ally. This video contains spoilers for Azure Gleam, Scarlet Blaze and Golden Wildfire routes of the game.
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Fire Emblem (Warriors 2): Three Hopes is a spin-off title based on Fire Emblem Three Houses. Its an alternate universe that also introduces new characters into the world of Fodlan. This analysis contains story spoilers for Fire Emblem: Three Houses.
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Join Fire Emblem™: Three Houses characters as you engage in massive battles across Fódlan
Edelgard, Dimitri, Claude, and other Fire Emblem: Three Houses characters return to put their combat expertise on display as you revisit a war-torn Fódlan.
Cut through hordes of enemies as characters from the Fire Emblem: Three Houses game. Take down dozens of foes with Edelgard’s axe or Dimitri’s lance, or blast enemies from a distance with Claude’s bow. Slash, swing, and spear your way to a brighter future for Fódlan.
Step into the shoes of Shez, as they meet Edelgard, Dimitri, Claude, and other Fire Emblem™: Three Houses characters as you fight for the future of Fódlan. Align with a leader to build and command an army in 1 vs. 1,000-style battles and deep strategy. The house you choose will bring you through one of three compelling stories, each with a different outcome. Coming to Nintendo Switch June 24, 2022.
#fireemblemwarriors, #FireEmblem, #threehopes - Hry
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I personally feel that while I was not fond of the idea of Byleth being an antagonist, it could have worked if they felt anything more than a Sunday cartoon rival. I feel in general Byleth is so insultingly awful in Hopes that they were written in a way to completely obscure their influence to promote Shez. I will avoid voicing my opinion and problems with Shez as a character as this is a Byleth topic. Also, outside of Shez's A support, I wasn't a fan of the Jeralt supports. They end up feeling repetitive and quite pedantic as every conversation revolves to: "You act like your mother." Basically, even if they had the chance to explore Byleth better, it felt more like they threw spit on its original character in Three Houses as apparently to the company it was a "failure". While Avatar characters are not always my jam, I certainly vastly prefer 3 Houses Byleth because while stunted, they are a decent character in the sense that they compliment others. Even in gameplay, Byleth might be one of the strongest units in the game, but they don't trivialize everyone else like Hopes did with Shez. And finally, aside from the first battle in Three Hopes, Byleth felt easily overpowered by the new oc. I don't count the times in the cutscenes where the tide of battle changed because that was Sothis-possessed Byleth, which I despise as a concept. It feels more like a cheap cope-out to force Byleth to act villainous and also leaves a bad taste as Sothis being a bad guy goes absolutely nowhere. In 3 Houses I felt that there could be a case that Sothis was not as good as Rhea praised and possibly the bad guy, but nothing was done with that possibility in Hopes, because Shez is the mc, not Byleth. It's all a huge waste of potential. Byleth in 3 Houses was an ok character with untapped potential, but Hopes ruined them for me. I will keep more comments on how Jeralt and Byleth were treated on the eventual Shez or complete Three Hopes vid you're making as they're marginally related to them.
This analysis/critique of Byleth was pretty interesting. I'll definitely keep this in mind when I'm writing Byleth for my fanfic. Keep up the good work, Faerghast.
Been with ya’ since the Fates/Echoes era. It’s always been evident how much work you put into these videos, even back when you were in university and an RA. It’s good to see you’re finally getting the recognition you deserve.
@@kingdomdani wow man, you nailed it.
@@moonmoon2479 That's just my personal opinion. While I do sound scatological when it comes to 3 Hopes, it did give some really good supports between some characters (every Yuri support, except Shez). Visually it is miles better in some aspects than Three Houses and the characters feel more expressive. But then, there were some retcons I hated (Bernadetta is the worst offender).
Moral of the story: If Byleth in three houses actually talked, it would’ve made an world of difference to their character.
I have to agree with you on that.
Did they have a character to begin with?
@@samboi123 I would say yes, but you have to read between the lines with some reactions and dialogue choices
@@sylvie_on fair enough.
@@legomaster2538 and I would have to completely disagree. Non silent protagonists are what ruined rpgs. Or do you not understand that the lead role in an RPG is for you to assume. Therefore it doesn't make sense to give them a voice and personality that most likely won't match. You want it in hack and slash games fine but leave rpgs the heck alone
I actually really like Byleth more as they are naturally unemotional on the surface but have things they hide. And I really like how Byleth can sense how people are deep down and see hidden details about them which is consistent actually. Byleth in Three Houses could see the depth of the three lords like Dimitri’s hidden darkness. And in Three Hopes where they can see Arval trying to protect Shez. Also Shez when seeing the lords only saw what was on the surface which is a nice parallel
I think that's part of why I like Byleth myself. Despite not being emotional for the most part, Byleth is actually a pretty good judge of character. That's a nice catch that you noticed that Shez's thoughts on the three lords are more surface level while Byleth notices the more subtle things like Dimitri's inner darkness and such.
Goated observation
I always found that part annoying? How are they good at seeing hidden feelings in people?
They never even really had friends. How does being a good mercenary equal "I'm good at reading people"
Even Claude who is all about reading people can be pretty inaccurate at times. Because duh, not everyone is gonna read people perfectly
Notably, Shez sees mostly their nicer qualities as well. Edelgard is openly ambitious and Claude puts on the front of a schemer but they don't let that play into the impression of the lords
@@relic5752 lol, are you really trying to defend Shez? They only see surface level, that’s the whole point.
Honestly, this game actually sold me on Byleth. I can see why the students gravitate towards her. And she's quite friendly and chill once you get to know her.
Not only that, but being around the students let's Byleth to develop more of a personality, which I enjoyed.
You mean ‘’they/them’’
Him.
As well as being powerful on the battlefield and well as at tactics, even Feh mentions this in Shez’s forging bonds
I really like her personality more in Three Hopes than Three Houses and she interacts more. She’s also a really skilled mercenary. This is what makes her an interesting character.
I’m actually glad that byleth is an actual character now. They’re still rather stoic but hearing their voice and seeing them interact more is nice
I'm someone that actually liked Byleth before Three Hopes came out (I'm not entirely sure why, but I think I liked how Three Houses explained the reason behind their stoicism), but after it did, it made me wish that this was how they were executed in Three Houses. Byleth having actual dialogue really adds to their charm and its disappointing that we didn't see this in Three Houses.
@@darkstorm2579 tbh same lol
@@darkstorm2579 Definitely, we can only hope they don't make the same mistake with Engage
@@darkstorm2579 A shame that they literally only did this simply to make Shez the beta. They didn't want Shez invalidating Byleth from Three Houses, so they suddenly decide to make Byleth an actual character and way stronger than they were ever really presented in the original game which is a poor writing decision.
@@BlueSunStudios1 I don't they necessarily made Byleth stronger. Three Houses says that Byleth is really strong. Heck its because of her that any of the lords are able to succeed in their goals.
I’m sad the ‘scary Sothis’ line wasn’t explored. She seemed pretty antagonistic even towards Byleth, and I loooved her lines there. ‘The glove does not go against the wishes of the hand’
The line of "you killed my vessels progenitor! You are gonna pay!" Is hilarious
How dare you to kill my puppet's dad
@@angelarce9747 What's nice about that line is that it showed that Sothis does care about Byleth, even if they don't share the same relationship they did in Three Houses.
@@darkstorm2579 Agreed. It gives Sothis some interesting layers imo. Sothis having a wicked side when crossed makes so much sense.
@@nuibaba280 Could have also fixed how goofy and evil the slithers were. In a game where things try to be gray, the slithers are very black and white. Maybe sothis wasn't 100% innocent and the attack on her people didn't come from thin air for no good reason because of "evil people". Would have been so interesting since history is often written by the winners and winners always paint themselves as good and the losers as bad.
@@nuibaba280 Her and Rhea speak in such a similar way when they're angry. Was interesting af to see
As someone who genuinely likes Byleth a lot, I think their concept is really solid. An emotionly stunted merc with a good heart, whose time around steady allies sees them open up and, in turn, be the kind of leader and friend capable of bringing out the best in those allies. There are HINTS of this in 3Houses too. The dialogue choices in that game are things Byleth is actually saying, and you can see them get more emotive in both their dialogue and facial expressions as the game progresses.
That said, leaving them voiceless really did them a disservice and 3 Hopes underutilised them horribly. I was so SO ready for a voiced Byleth to paint a much clearer picture of who the character was supposed to be, but while I like what IS there, there isn't much.
I may be huffing copium, but I'm still holding out hope for some 3Hopes DLC that maybe expands on Byleth slightly. It'd feel like such a shame that the last we ever see of Fodlan is a game that feels unfinished and a main character who I probably like more because of my own reading of them than what's actually presented in game.
Hard agree, Byleth concept is actually interesting but going the blank/silent protagonist in 3 Houses is a mistake since there's only hints at best on actually using said concepts. It's all a big waste.
And it's so strange that Byleth is voiceless in houses, but the 3 games preceding it did have voice acting. And that's so damn odd. Why not let Byleth speak?
Everything I felt that Nintendo and Koei Techmo should have done with Byleth in Three Hopes:
1.Byleth was part of the group meetings at the beginning and/or end of each chapter.
2.Byleth had support conversations with the House Leaders.
3.Byleth was warped to Zahras alongside Shez and the House Leaders.
4.Byleth and Jeralt had unique dialogue with Rhea during the final battle of Azure Gleam.
@@hickknight my guess is silent Byleth was a budget decision.
Because back when the games only had selective voice acting, there were multiple VAS for the avatar characters of each gender which isn't gonna work in a fully voiced game.
But then they took the risk of one for each gender with Shez and Alear, getting a positive reaction with what they should have done from the start.
@@hickknight What are you talking about? Byleth does have a speaking voice.
I would also mention the lack of Sothis after Byleth is recruited as well, given how forceful she was about killing shez and the fact she was trying to take over Byleth’s body they never really explained why any of that was the way it was.
Adding to this, in Scarlet Blaze (yet to beat the other routes because this game has been in my backlog for the past year) after you kill Epimenides, Byleth and Shez’s A rank support very heavily implies that Sothis herself was the one speaking to Shez the entire time and actually seems somewhat fond of her as a person (with Arval/Epi out of the picture). Either that, or she coached Byleth on what to say, leaving both options as the words of the Goddess.
Short answer. Yes, but only because they and Sothis were underused.
Longer answer: The idea of them as the terrifying Ashen Demon was a great setup, but I feel that it wasn't used enough to explore Shez or Byleth and Sothis, especially when you recruit Byleth. More should have changed in the story after the recruitment. Still, what little we get of Byleth is absolute gold, and I wish we got a semblance of this in Three Houses, especially with spoken lines.
This reminds me of how a similar case in the Tales of series with Ludger, he has a personality but he's mostly mute and you only get to hear him on NG+ which left a sour taste in people's mouth. I think if you make those kind of character you have to properly integrate them into the world as their own character and not just as a self insert character, otherwise most people will think they are flat or uninteristing.
@@Gensolink I remembered playing that Tales of Xilla 2! It was a fun game! After you beat the game and go to new game+ feature when you want to replay the game, Luger talks and has spoken dialogue though out the game.:)
Guess we gotta hope for dlc that expands more on them
@@fluffydemon1 Yup, but I doubt it will make up for how little we got of Shez or Byleth, unless it's an entire additional route. Even then, the base three routes have so many easily fixable problems.
@@MrGksarathy yea lol definitely
If Byleth actually had the sword of the creator in Three Hope’s story, there is absolutely no way that Shez would’ve ever defeated Byleth. I feel like from a story point of view, it would’ve made her “antagonist” status way more interesting too, as EVERYONE knows how powerful the sword of the creator is in Fodlan
Or use it as a plot point for branching stories. Claude's Route in particular has a great setup for this. After Claude successfully convinceds Dimitri to Abdicate Rhea (have options to spare different characters by avoiding or convincing them) things start getting interesting with Byleth having no other job to go but the Church Folks and they are playing a lot and gave them the Sword of The Creator in her Desperation to keep power so it's really high stakes. This is the kill or recruit Byleth moment..... After they get to explore more about TWSITD
As for Dimitri's route once you Recruit Byleth the aspect becomes very different with the suggestion of sending a messenger to her once most loyal Allies (Hubert, Monica, Ferdinand (if the voice lines are complete otherwise have his character death be story related) this would also have you take deeper in to the story of TWSITD to the point Dimitri's darkness starts to show (as the genocidal nature of them start to bring back some bad memories) we also get more of Arval's and to a lesser extent Shez's storyline
Not really. The Sword of the Creator is just a gimmicky weapon. The POWER is from the Crest Stone, which Byleth has full access to, given that it's in their heart. Whether Byleth had the Creator Sword or not wouldn't really change the outcome as Shez would still have killed them on the non-recruit side.
@@0axis771 The crest stone is needed to activate the SOTC. Remember that the sword was used to cut through another dimension. Shez would be absolutely dead if Byleth had it.
@@deathbirb Because the power is still Crest Stone. But having the weapon would absolutely not guarantee victory given how we very much saw how Rhea facing against Nemesis resulted.
@@0axis771 The sword is powered by the stone. Every relic functions like this. Does that mean Byleth is also a relic and able to channel their full power if a crest stone is shoved in them? No. At best Byleth gets time powers from Sothis. If Byleth didn’t need the sword then why not fight their enemies barehanded?
Shez won* because Sothis didn’t have proper control over her vessel and lacked the SOTC. The game is pretty clear about this.
Byleth in Three Hopes has really made me hope that for FE: Engage and beyond we step away from self inserts as the main characters in the story
i just hope the self insert actually TALKS, which seems to be the case with Engage
Yeah hopefully they take a page on what Shez did bc Shez is a pretty good protagonist. Also helps they actually get voice lines
God same. I’m so over silent protagonists in rpgs at this point lol. It can be done well, but it’s never interesting imo
I wouldn't get your hopes too high, but it seems that the protag in Engage seems fully voiced and might be a fully fleshed out character and not a self insert.
They not they might have a persona but they probably going to be more blank slant.
Really like how much of an unstoppable juggernaut Byleth is treated in Three Hopes as an enemy, making them live up to their reputation as the "Ashen Demon". It's a shame their implementation as an ally outside of Scarlet Blaze IMO just... doesn't work as well as it should.
Regardless, I think their personaliry works best for Byleth as a non-avatar character, because the dude(tte) just couldn't carry Silver Snow for me (which for the record, is meant to be the Byleth route).
Just realized that it makes sense that the crest of flames’ tarot card representation is The World. Especially when you said stop time.
While I am glad we got more character moments and actual speaking lines for Byleth they were wasted. It is pretty convoluted to recruit them and they don’t have a large part in the story. I want to start to say I like Shez I do but their part just adds more questions to a world where they still needed to answer a lot more questions. Also the trailer made it appear that Byleth/Sothis and Shez/Arval would have more interactions. Those are my feelings on how Byleth was handled. I did really enjoy her convo with Jeralt though. But… I prefer Three Houses over Hopes.
19:50 wow… I just noticed how his expression turns a bit sad. So while Sothis is in control Byleth is conscious of what she’s doing and is basically seeing himself do things he doesn’t want. Sothis still speaks normally, but Byleth isn’t happy with what she did, and probably feels remorse/sadness at killing Rodrigue either because a. "He’s an innocent life" (to a certain extent or B. Because he’s Felix's dad, Dima and Felix's reaction to his death and understanding that pain since he had just lost his own father. Or who knows maybe it’s a mix of both. Right after that Byleth takes control again and runs away likely to avoid unwillingly killing more people.
I just thought it was an interesting detail 👀 (also I’m using "he" because it was male Byleth for that scene)
I thought it was sothis who felt upset seeing the corps of her children used as weapons by humans
I think that's Sothis' sadness because she sees what happened to her children.
Off Topic but why Dima? Is this the short form of Dimitri or does another character call him that? Cause Hapi calls him Didi and Eldelgard Dee, from what I konw.
@@KoeniginLogia Dima is one of the most common diminutive forms of Dimitri, and it gets used as lot for him as a nickname in fandom. Mitya is probably the next most popular, although you don't see it used nearly as often.
@@cricket8875 In english or in russian?
Three Hopes actually made me see Byleth as a character, rather than a vehicle to interact with the game with. They managed to build off of the few details Houses gave about them and flesh them out into a character I'd actually want to see more of.
Only complaint is that despite literally being Shez's call to action and primary motivation, it feels like their relevance to the story wanes the further in you get. Even when you recruit them to your side, they just recede into the background until the Zahras shenanigans start. Their role really wasn't as significant as the promotional material made it out to be.
I loved Byleth in three houses, as a silent protagonist, but this made me love them even more. I wish they voiced byleth in Three Houses, and I wish they had more supports and more of a role in 3 hopes. Also I love that the flowers are wrapped in Edelgard’s ribbon.
20:04 I was honestly disappointed that Byleth didn’t get supports with the three lords. It would have been awesome if they interacted with this new version of Byleth.
Anna: "you guys are getting supports?"
Honestly I think a much better implementation of why Edelgard snaps out of her mind control in Zahras in AG would simply be that Thales had no connection to her in this realm to keep the control up. It would've been a logic explaination I feel at least
then wouldn't she have returned to normal when Dimitri killed him?
@@Nixahma
Maybe it takes time.
And then Edelgard conquers Fodlan all over again.
This was an interesting watch. Personally, I'm glad that Three Hopes doesn't glorify the kill Byleth route by having Shez feel regret and wonder if there had been a better way. I find it wrong to kill Byleth since they are the flagship character of Fodlan and its original protagonist. Then there's also the matter of Shez unknowingly fulfilling the wishes of the Agarthans (I prefer using that term over Those Who Slither in The Dark because it's way too long) by killing Sothis's vessel. Now, I haven't beaten Three Hopes at the time of this comment, but I have seen the endings and am aware that Byleth barely has a role if you recruit them, which is disappointing (also, seriously, why don't they have any supports with the three lords, that would have been really interesting to see).
This could just be me talking out of my arse, but I think that had Shez and Byleth met on different terms, they could be pretty good friends. I think that the two of them balance each other out and I like the chemistry they have in their supports. Sure Shez initially wanted to kill Byleth for killing her (I'm using Shez's female version) mercenary friends, but Shez herself actually let's go of that grudge even before you recruit Byleth. Now this could be due to poor memory, but I remember a scene in Golden Wildfire where Shez considers trying to recruit Byleth because of how strong she (Byleth) is, and it would be easy to do since Byleth is still a mercenary in this timeline.
Now, I don't tend to promote what I'm doing online, especially in CZcams comments, but I'm actually writing a Three Houses fanfic where Byleth and Shez are friends (they're both girls in my story due to personal preference). They first meet at Shez's village when they're both kids and this encounter leads to Shez joining Jeralt's Mercenaries. Naturally, this means that they'll both end up at the Officer's Academy with Byleth as a professor and Shez as a student. I think it's a concept with a lot of potential. If anyone wants to read it, the fanfic is called Fire Emblem Three Houses: Two Heroes. There's one chapter out right now, but I do plan to write more in the near future.
Wait is this the one where Jeralt actually adopts Shez? I think I've read it.
@@azatheeverchosen7615 Depends. Was the story called Fire Emblem Three Houses: Two Heroes, because if so, then that was mine. The reason I ask is that there's another story where Shez is adopted by Jeralt and it has way more chapters than mine. I haven't gotten around to updating it due to real life stuff getting in the way, but I do want to make the next chapter.
Frankly, I thought it was nice to see them from a 3rd person perspective and see what they already had be fleshed out a tad more.
Interesting how kind of different things end up for them if they never went to Garreg Mach.
Their supports with Jeralt is honestly one of the best supports between both this and Houses imo simply from it showing how much they and Jeralt care for one another despite them both not being too emotional. Quite funny even how Jeralt, Sitri and Byleth were never much for emotion... really runs in the family, huh.
As an enemy, keeping them that way is both scary yet also sad since they pretty much give up everything and allow Sothis to take control of them to inact vengeance for their father, but as a result, they end up dying and it's...celebrated in a way? They're just here doing their job and existing...only to be called a "demon" for years due to something...they couldn't really control. They'd never be able to tell Jeralt how they feel, make accomplishments and actual friends outside of just battle, and be in a somewhat stable environment. Though they also never really minded their lifestyle, so who can really say?
As an ally things are.. interesting yet odd. Getting my biggest critique out of the way which doesn't just apply to them being an ally, I feel they should have gotten a bit more screentime, perhaps more scenes in between battles to see what they and Jeralt where up to when they weren't on the job... before their recruitment (Right after their awakening and the scene where Jeralt gives Byleth the sword for instance). For the ally portion, regarding the secret chapters, it should have been longer... because not only is Byleth/Sothis's absence an issue, the whole thing is just 2 chapters and the Zahras portion can honestly be done in just half an hour or so... Byleth's lack of presence there is honestly not the only issue with that.
Overall, I don't think they "fumbled" Byleth imo. Characterization and role was honestly spot on, but it was more a matter of "There needed to be a bit more" and that can be said about a bunch of things in 3 Hopes, so it definitely isn't a Byleth exclusive critique. The love I already had for this character skyrocketed with this game despite the shortcomings and I cannot wait to see how they're treated in Engage when that comes out.
I'll tell you someone they did ruin, Rhea
WHAT THE FRICK DID THEY DO TO RHEA
She's awfully insignificant, not only does she not have a deserved church route, but she's barley important at all, in 2/3 routes she's only used to make a poor excuse for a villain, and in azure gleam, SHE DOES NOTHING
But let's talk about what is here for rhea, she's playable, THROUGH A RUSHED IN UNLOCK AT THE END OF THE GAME
She dosent have a unique moveset for her saint class, and the Archbishop class/ skin is nowhere to be found.
But it gets worse
She dosent have unique clothing for classes
and worst of all?
NO SUPPORT CONVERSATIONS
Hot take, but she'd have the best supports in the game HANDS DOWN, and to see her wasted on this awfull way is heartbreaking.
Now of course this all happened to sothis and arval too, and don't get me wrong that's a pain aswell, but rhea is just far more significant in terms of potential
I just wish Byleth had more support conversations, tbh
I would have been grateful if we at least got supports between the three lords.
@@legomaster2538 fax its so baffling.
Congrats on the 100K! Alright so this is a pretty good video. I think that you did a good job setting up the positives, and I also think that you laid out the negatives in a very understandable way. I think your Azure Gleam section in particular helped to illustrate how Byleth's implementation is incredibly odd as an ally.
I just can't understand why they didn't at the very least get a Support with the 3 lords. That more than anything confuses me.
I've always enjoyed the more silent protagonists like Byleth, since it allows me to make up and Role play their pen actions within the story more. Like, for example, the main characters of old Bethesda (and just old CRPGs in general) where the minimalist characterisation allows for a greater amount of self expression. My Byleth is my own and her motivations can vary depending on what route I want her to take
Well what you said is the main appeal of self-insert characters thou Byleth is also one of my favorites in this category, I wished that he would get more development, not some very specific thing like his motivations or the way he thinks but rather generic like why do people find him reliable despite the fact the he doesnt have feeling? or the how/why can he pull potential out of people naturally? we really didnt get things like that in three houses
Fan artists are really good at giving characters like Byleth personalities and quirks, some of them very funny in nature.
Hard disagree. Why even bother give Byleth a set of characteristic if they are supposed to be a self insert or players are supposed to fill the gap just give us a blank slate to work with like Skyrim, dark souls etc
At least we get to see more of they're "Ashen Demon" side that isn't really seen in the original game
Short Answer: Yes
Long Answer: ABSOLUTELY YES!
For Starters, there was NO RIVALRY, I have no idea where that notion comes from, but there wasn’t, it was a One Sided Grudge from the beginning on Shez’s part, one which is left undeveloped for much of the Game, they fight for a second time, Byleth gets possessed by Sothis despite it not making sense or being explained. Then Shez decides they don’t want revenge anymore, which leaves me bewildered as my reaction is “Little LATE FOR THAT DECISION, don’t ya think?!”
That decision made me reflect on the fact that I still don’t know what his original motives for revenge were, it can’t be for Berling’s Mercenaries, as Shez even says that he wasn’t particularly close with them, and they were United only by Coin, and the last time they’re actually mentioned is a Support Conversation you can easily miss. Byleth nearly killed them? Can’t be that either, considering Shez not long after his first meeting with Byleth, is nearly killed 28 more times showing his sense of Self Preservation is practically non-existent, and needing to be saved by Arval every time. So finally the only other reason would be because he wants to show that he’s stronger, yet that also doesn’t work as Shez isn’t that petty. So there’s no legitimate reason for this Plot Point to exist in the first place, other than an excuse to have Shez follow Jeralt’s Mercenaries, get lost, and meet the Three Lords.
Next we get to their Third Fight in the Game, which is the only Good fight in the Story, yet is automatically ruined by what comes afterwards, whether you recruit Byleth or not. If you don’t recruit Byleth, Jeralt dies via Shez, and Byleth kills either Randolph, Rodrigue, or Judith. Randolph had me rolling my eyes as he dies in every other Route anyways, Judith decided to charge against Byleth on her own, but she wasn’t playable so I was kinda meh on her death, and Rodrigue is the only death I felt somewhat sad about, but then again he decided to stand there and reminisce, thus dropping his guard for a Byleth Backstab.
Their Final Fight happens the Chapter before the Final Boss, and it ends up being the most Anti-Climactic Death in the Entire Story as Byleth agreed to give control to Sothis, yet Sothis still can’t control his body as apparently Byleth is fighting back all of a sudden, then they get locked into place and Shez and Sothis controlled Byleth give off a pretty light show, before both get sent flying away, then Byleth dies, and that’s that. Shez is broken up about it for exactly ONE scene, then the Story continues like nothing happened, Arval doesn’t even appear after that.
To continue since I realize that was a long comment, then if you manage to recruit Byleth, you are rewarded with Two Supports, minimal Story relevance, and a Character that everyone says now exists, despite it always being there (never was a Self Insert, sorry to break that bubble), literally the whole Byleth being not a character thing boils down to Byleth not being able to speak in Three Houses. Anyways, the Jeralt supports are actually good, but the Shez supports just makes me further believe this Rivalry thing didn’t exist in the first place. As far as Main Story involvement goes, Byleth doesn’t get any until the chapter they were supposed to have their final fight with Shez, as now Shez gets possessed by Arval, chases after Byleth, fails after being interrupted, then proceeds to do the Zahras spell which ends up trapping Shez and the Three Lords, BUT not Byleth despite them being the intended Target of the damn Spell. So when people say it was weird for Byleth to not be included in that mission, it wasn’t weird, it was terrible writing and a waste of time, as the Zahras mission still doesn’t change how the Story ends, except Scarlet Blaze, except that change doesn’t make sense anyways.
So no, Byleth was handled EXTREMELY Poorly in this Game, for both as an Enemy, and as an Ally. Though the main reason why I typed any of this was really in regards to the end of this Video when the question of whether it was okay or not for the flagship character of the Fódlan Games to have this kind of role in Three Hopes. Depends, considering at the beginning of this video you already established that you think Shez, the guy who takes a back seat for his own Subplot, and could easily be removed from the Story after the Kostas incident, is the better Protagonist. Like it pretty much seemed everyone that didn’t like Byleth got what they wanted, so the question kinda irked me, considering that fact.
@@nickcalderon2637 I mostly agree with you, though I'd say that Byleth wasn't ruined as much as Sothis. I can't stand what they did to her in the plot of Three Hopes.
I also completely agree that Byleth had plenty of personality in Three Houses. People just choose to not pay attention to it.
And not too mention byleth (female) and sothis ended up becoming evil veyle but there minds has been transfer into a new body evil veyle under sombrons doing after epimenides caught there souls and wiped half of their memories.
@@nickcalderon2637your comments were miles better than everything said in the video, thank you.
This is as close to a Byleth support science that we’ll probably ever get so I’ll take it! Congrats again on the 100k 🥳
I definitely agree with the Azure Gleam Zaharahs bit. I assumed that either Edelgard would be free from Thales since she was pulled into a whole other dimension, or at the very least that Dimitri would be aware of what happened to her when they got out, and was definitely disappointed that nothing changed for either of them. I was like " Well then what was the whole point of the trip to Agarthan Hell?"
Congrats on 100k!
I really enjoyed seeing Byleth more fleshed out. Though i would definitely not be opposed to getting even more content involving them.
Really like Byleth more in Three Hopes than in Three Houses. She really has more interaction than before and her support with Shez and Jeralt are my favorite. I like to rewatch all the cool cutscenes again where Byleth fights against Shez.
Also yesterday it was Byleth’s Birthday and Faerghast post a Byleth Content on a perfect time.
Respect and Congratulations on 100k subscribers!
Very insightful and measured video!
If we get a sequel for Three Houses... I want Shez to be the antagonist!😂
Oof, if Three Hopes didn’t cause a Flame War with Byleth being an Enemy, that hypothetical Game definitely would’ve.
congrats on 100k faerghast!
In my opinion the only thing they could have done different is Byleth's supports giving them atleast one or two more people to have an actual conversation with but even without that I still think Byleth is a well made character in Three Hopes because it shows that Byleth is a straight forward character who does what they know best
I am Autistic and personally read Byleth as Autistic coded and it has had a positive impact on my perception of Byleth as a character
I'm not too sure about autism, but Byleth definitely got a severe case of alexithymia.
Nothing to do with Byleth (sorry), but regarding your little rant at the end, I agree that the "invalidating 3 Houses" excuse sounds like a lie and they moreso just didn't have time as Engage was just around the corner. The lack of any DLC despite previous musou games all having DLC also shows they just wanted it to be done and forgotten. It's really a shame.
I disagree. We don't know if Three Hopes will have DLC or not, it took multiple months for other Musou's DLC to be announced. It has nothing to do with time either, Koei isn't making Engage.
@@nuibaba280 while I'm wary, I do hope you are correct. I'd rather be wrong and have a good experience then be right and stay disappointed
If they had just given Byleth voice acting in Three Houses it probably would've solved a few things
I just want to say thank you for mentioning your issues with Azure gleam regarding how Byleth being recruited or not affecting immersion and how it was handled in general.
it was such a let down after both Golden Wildfire and ESPECIALLY Scarlet Blaze left me feeling content and very satisfied with this reimagining of the War.
it was validating as not many in my circle have played this game and thus makes talking about it feel hallow
Hope you're doing okay through the storm with the hurricane right now. I need to catch up with your videos. 💜
I feel like Byleth should've had revamped supports with the lords and Leonie while adding supports with Rodrigue, Holst and Monica. The lords and the 3Hopes playable characters are obvious, and Leonie I feel can bring a very interesting point of conflict within Byleth, in which they're forced to face their "lack" of emotions. It would've made Byleth have an overall more complete addition as an ally in the game, making them feel worth it in every route.
Also, WHY aren't they available in the Zahras chapter? Huge missed chance.
Really good video Faerghast. I much prefer the way Byleth was handled in 3 Hopes. It showed rather than told why they were the Ashen Demon (massive ludonarrative dissonance in houses when a famous merc starts as a lv1 commoner.
I personally think Byleth is a better protagonist then Shez cuz Shez is your typical Shonen protag so cringe and why am I the only 1 who saw Byleth go through development in the story of 3 houses, I wanna know what game y’all were playing cuz I didn’t play it and which route did y’all play?
You’re not alone my friend.
same. also the fact that three houses was released years ago, there is personally a stronger connection with byleth rather than shez that is suddenly the protag whom, in the lore and setting established for years, you just meet.
Blue Lions was my favourite House and Red Eagles is my least favourite while Golden Deer is the route to learn lore of the game and Ashen Wolves are just yeah, they’re interesting but not much else other then to learn more about Byleth’s mother.
Love the content dude
Congratz on the 100k!!
One thing Hopes did convince me, is, Byleth being unvoiced in Houses was a mistake.
But yeah, I can kind of understand Byleth not having supports with any of the playable characters from three houses, as they might have felt it would repeat too much, but at least the new characters should have had supports with them.
I hope if we get a DLC route, it will actually have Shez and Byleth face a common enemy for the entirety of the plot. Since Three Houses showed what happened with Byleth, and Three Hopes with Shez, I wonder what would happen if they join the houses together.
Funny you mention that. I'm actually writing a fanfic that does exactly that. It would be neat if there was an official route or something where Shez and Byleth go to Garreg Mach together and join the same house.
I like a lot that quote at 8:38 because it shows a good connection between Byleth and Sothis like they have on Three Houses
I agree. I like Byleth's supports but I was so disapointed to see only two support chains. I wasn't expecting to see a support with all the students of course, but at least the lords. The relationship between Byleth and the lords is so important in 3H, I would have loved to see how it is in this timeline.
Also I was expecting more from Byleth as an ennemy, since trailers were based on it. I was disapointed when Byleth is just recruted, as I expected Sothis to try to kill Shez or something. Also in Zahras I was like "only the godess can escape, so Byleth will save the day". But no.
In fact it feels like Byleth is a side quest, while I expected them to be part of the main storyline. Anyway it was cool to finally hear them, and I have to say I would have loved to have them being dubbed in 3H like Shez is in W3H, as I love the story of 3H so much.
Good job getting to your goal, it goes up from here still
I played this game three times, recruiting Byleth each time. In the end, played 200 hours and more and I feel hollow. Like I haven't accomplished anything. This game doesn't feel complete at all. So yeah, I do agree with you that Three Hopes wasn't given a proper chance, as this is set in an alternate timeline.
Honestly I think they did Byleth way better in Three Hopes than Three House. Three Houses showed Byleth as a leader while Three Hopes showed them as an force of nature where (if you're lucky) you can get them to fight for you rather than against you.
And I really believe the addition of Shez being the new protag in Three Hopes gives players a 3rd person view of Byleth as a character and show that they can be more capable than many people gave them.
I agree with a lot of points in this video, but strangely, I still feel a lot more connected to Byleth than Shez for some reasons. Playing Shez was fun and all, but Byleth has my heart, so I'm not really sure if Three Houses Byleth was a total mess up. A lot of time it feels to me as though the reason people didn't like Byleth in Three Houses was mostly because he/she was not voiced. As for character development, I only played Blue Lions route so I can't really comment, but I felt her progression from an emotionless mercenary to a caring professor in Three Houses was believable even if it wasn't the most well done thing ever, whereas there was hardly any interaction with other characters (apart from Jeralt and Shez, which I thought was amazing to see) so there wasn't really much of anything to judge. So I feel like the developers messed up in Three Hopes more in a sense that they completely let the opportunities slip by them for no good reason.
When you play Byleth in the tutorial, you feel like you're learning and barely getting through. Then, in the one cutscene, Byleth dies to an axe in the back. So, through the entire game, I could never understand why they became a teacher rather than a student. In just their first scene in Three Hopes, I understood why they were a teacher.
That's not byleth, that's youngbruh the name I gave him in three house.
It drove me crazy that Byleth didn't have more support conversations than that. It bothered me that they left out so many classes and playable characters that would have made sense to be used. I liked the game, but it was definitely unfinished. Disappointing, because it really had SO much potential. 😕. The routes don't seem unique enough to me. They seemed to do Byleth a disservice, and I think they retconned Claude. He doesn't seem to think or talk the same as in three houses. I also cannot believe there hasn't been any dlc yet for this.
They didn't retcon Claude. Claude always talked like this to the point he shares the same beliefs in both games. He just didn't have Byleth around to carry him.
I loved having the opportunity to face Byleth as an enemy and having them as an ally. One of my biggest gripes with Three Houses was Byleth being mute. When they first asked “Why?” after theirs and Shez’s first fight, I cheered out loud. Hearing them speak outside of battle quotes made them much more real. I’m glad you brought up the Leonie exchange. Seeing them get mad at her was so validating after the nothing response in their B-support in Three Houses.
My hang up with Byleth’s place isn’t with them. It’s with Sothis. I have so many questions:
Does Sothis know about Arval and Epimenides? Or can she sense an Agarthan using Shez? It seems like she knows them when she threatens “to send that whelp to an early grave.” It just felt so personal.
What is the difference between Sothis lending her giving herself to Byleth to escape Zaharas and completely taking them over after Jeralt’s death? It seems like Sothis can take control as she pleases, but at the same time, she needed Byleth to sit on her throne.
When Byleth’s hair and eyes change, that comes after Sothis fuses with them. How is she around after Byleth’s changes in Hopes?
TL;DR Byleth is treated and handled fairly well. Sothis on the other hand left me asking so many questions. Byleth should have been involved in the secret chapters against Arval and Epimenides. I think if they were there, some Sothis problems could be solved.
Great video as always! Congrats on the 100k!
I love the way byleth is characterised and I think they’re much more entertaining and endearing than in the main game, but boy the fact the there is basically no pay off to the Shez/ byleth rivalry that was heavily marketed before the release is frustrating.
Plus the fact that the devs wrote the story, as they said, in a way that wouldn’t take away byleth’s importance in the main game just resulted in the game having all those inconclusive and unsatisfying endings. They could have made the best of both words if the writing made them more relevant to the main story. Also I get that they already have supports with every characters in the main game, but them having like 2 supports just feels so empty. Like come on not even supports with the lords ?
Yeah. I really don't get their logic about not wanting to invalidate Byleth. I mean if they wanted to make it clear in the writing that Byleth's role in Three Houses was important, and opened up new possibilities for determining the future of Fodlan...they could have just given the routes of Three Hopes darker, yet still conclusive endings that felt distinct from the bittersweet, but still rather hopeful endings of Three Houses. It's not like they had to make everything come up all sunshine and rainbows at the end. Maybe the lords in Three Hopes have a tougher time uniting the people of the conquered nations after the war. Maybe the casualties and destruction caused by the war are even greater than what we saw in Three Houses, with the people of one nation refusing to bend the knee to whomever the winning lord might be, leading to that nation being destroyed, so that the two remaining territories can return to a time of peace. This could show how Byleth's guidance in the main game helped the lords develop as leaders, allowing the people of Fodlan to more easily trust in their leadership after the war ended. There are certainly ways that the writers could have shown the positive impact Byleth had on Fodlan in Three Houses, while still allowing Three Hopes' story to feel complete. As things stand now, the story for each route doesn't really end. It just kind of...stops, with no real sense of closure. Also, yeah Byleth really needed more supports. Maybe not with every character, but I would have been satisfied if Byleth had gotten supports with the lords and their lead retainers.
I think the problem with Byleth in Three Hopes is this whole situation where you basically have to decide between Byleth and Arval. Because of this, the game wants to be a bit more "neutral" in the two endings, but... honestly... It wasn't very well executed. In my case, I have no reason to listen to Arval and kill Byleth. And if you do, you only get morally worse endings.
I don't like Arval at all, so I personally would have preferred a more pro-Byleth ending.
Byleth actually having a voice for their lines really helps their character. They always had a personality and character growth, but it was hard to recognize that due to the lack of a voice in cutscenes. Byleth for me has always been more of a character that speaks more with actions than words. His lines are short, but it fits Byleth as a character considering the stoic mercenary Byleth always was as seen in three hopes and the beginning of three houses. The fact that Byleth has extremely limited dialogue lines that usually mean the same thing, and don't mean anything when they happen to be different makes me fail to see him as a self-insert character because Byleth demonstrates that he has his own thoughts and opinions unrelated to what the player wants him to think.
I don't remember a lot from Fates but Awakening suffers from a problem like this where you decide whether or not to sacrifice Emmeryn, but the same thing happens regardless of what you say. He has his flaws but ultimately, Byleth is probably my favorite character in three houses and my second favorite avatar character (If you can even call Byleth that). When I think if self-insert characters, I think of Link, or the FEH Protagonist. The difference between Byleth and someone like Persona 5 protagonist is that while they both only communicate through dialogue bubbles, Akira Kurusu has multiple dialogue options that convey a different personality while Byleth only gets one dialogue option or two options that convey the same thoughts but in different words.
Yea, like for instance in Blue Lions after dealing with Lonato, Byleth can either go
"This is the reality of war" or
"It was a necessary sacrifice"
Players would probably feel bad about the situation but Byleth clearly feels differently about it all
Dimitri even momentarily gets angry and goes "Are you insane!?"
This is exactly what I meant! I also appreciate that Byleth isn't blindly worshipped by everyone, and he isn't your traditional hero type of protagonist. Firstly, Byleth is the professor and a good one at that so it's reasonable that they would be respected. Secondly, Byleth understands that he needs to kill, and he does it with no hesitation.
I feel like if Corrin was the protagonist of three houses, he'd try to spare Edelgard, Spare Randolph, and incapacitate Fleche. Maybe I'm not giving Corrin enough credit, but I was really not a fan of the Fates story, and Corrin's naivete though justified in the context of the story his naivete was one of the many reasons why I didn't like the story. I understand that Corrin would have a very limited worldview, but it felt like they never learned or suffered consequences for being too trusting. Even when Corrin almost died for being too trusting, the issue was instantly resolved, and Corrin didn't change at all.
As for Robin, I actually like him more than Byleth. He's not particularly greatly written or anything, but I'm biased since Awakening was my first game. I also like his intelligence and maturity.
@@Ikeai-zv8lv There's a bunch of characters who tend to actually get upset at Byleth, offer their own advice to Byleth as they point out certain behaviors of Byleth (Mercedes thinking Byleth tries too hard, for instance... during their C support for, and several occasions where Byleth is inadvertently sneaking up on people or watching them from a distance), be wary, weirded out or just overall indifferent.
@@Ikeai-zv8lv the Reason for fate's sloppy story, is because the writers where trying to achieve too much with not enough time. Intelligents Systems had an idea for Fate to have three stories to appeal to everyone, but they realized that they didn't have enough writers. So they hired an outside writer, Shin Kibayashi was that writer. Intelligent Systems wanted Shin to write the outline for each pathway, what happened instead is that Shin wrote 500 pages for each pathway. Intelligent Systems knew this was too long so they cut the story into pieces without the writers permission and the fact the Nintendo demanded Fates come on the Fire Emblem Anniversary only made things worse. Which resulted in this hilariously mess of a story. The good news this that there is a manga based on Fates that is a little better. Its called Fire Emblem If: the Crown of Niberlung.
Congrats on 100K. Yeah I 100% agree. They could have made Edelgard so much more interesting in AG. Hell she could have been an ally if the Zahras thing stay after she left and was there only to destroy Thales but then flee to regroup and try to still lead the empire, while also Byleth also serving as a point of interest for Thales since ya know... SOTHIS. While being an enemy they could made Byleth defect back to the Empire, or even a yellow unit in something like the final map. Same goes for GW. Byleth could do a "Alliance is going to betray you" move on Edelgard like they did in SB. And they could have them assist Rhea in the final map since... SOTHIS. I feel the recruitment in this one is a little better but I wish they served more. And Scarlet Blaze I feel is the one route that probably did it the best. Since her role in the final map would actually make it worse, but having them in the second last map before the final battle would definitely be a scare and a half. And finally, Byleth should have served a bigger purpose to Rhea in the final battles if recruited that either gave her a nerf (sadness), or buff (anger).
21:05 This. All of this. Also, wanna know a good way not to invalidate Byleth? Make their recruitment actually matter beyond two (three in SB) chapters!
Edit: Wrong time stamp.
I love this game. Some story beats feel rushed but I think most of the additional characterization is great
I've always liked Byleth since playing my first route in Three Houses. We can all agree that that he could've been handled better but I liked what we did know about him.
Hopes did a good job conveying the personality that I always knew Byleth had but they messed up with his role in the story.
Really, all I want from the DLC is more Byleth and Jeralt content.
Speaking bluntly, I'd say my expectations were...not met, and Byleth's character was critically underutilized.
I may be in the minority saying this but I always liked Byleth's character, and I was very dismayed to see they were being sidelined for Shez. Not even playing Three Hopes changed that. Like a couple of characters' Byleth's characterization and usage all felt...off, lacking, especially in the latter's case. Leonie's paralogue in particular just left a bad taste in my mouth. I'd also say that even Byleth's role as a rival to Shez felt lacking until the end when it became personal. Overall, I'm happy Byleth was finally able to talk and show a modicum of emotion, but in general his character was just...wasted, like a lot of things in Three Hopes.
Honestly, just hearing them speak and interact with other characters made me think of them as an actual character rather than an emotionless self-insert. Byleth used to be one of my least favorite characters in the entire series, but Three Hopes made me appreciate them a lot, including in the original Honestly, just hearing them speak and interact with other characters made me think of them as an actual character rather than an emotionless self-insert. Byleth used to be one of my least favorite characters in the entire series, but Three Hopes made me appreciate them a lot more, in it and the original
Byleth was always a pretty blank and boring slate with a sick character design in Three Houses, but seeing them from another perspective and have actual dialogue and interactions made me really like them.
I love Byleth's unemotional exterior being shown as an actual character trait and not just as a side effect of being a self-insert protag.
I wish they had more involved interactions, but I'm really grateful and appreciative of the ones we got
Imagine if Byleth had been traveling back in time repeatedly trying to get everybody a happy ending, but it was only possible with Shez's support
After playing Genshin for so long I can't help but hear Kujou Sara when FByleth talks.
I personaly feelt that Byleths personallity did come throught in 3 houses but he was always described by other characters as Byleth does not have any spoken dialoge in 3 houses so he didn't convey any of it (with some very few exceptions).
Iwasnt supprised with the persolaity they have in this game since its the one I already figured he had based on descriptions of Byleth in 3 houses, thou I loved every bit of his characterization
I feel that Byleths personallity did come throught in 3 houses but it always came from other characters describing them
so Byleth didn't convey any of it (with some very few exceptions)
but the persolaity they have in this game is the one I already figured they had based on everyones descriptions of Byleth
I always felt that Byleth actually had a lot of personality in Three Houses. He/she is a surprisingly virtuous person with a strong sense of responsibility and a great deal of protectiveness for those he/she is close to. The first thing we see Byleth do in a cutscene is risking his/her life to protect someone he/she considers innocent. While I think that there should have been voiced dialogue in Three Houses, Byleth displays his/her personality very openly.
@@IchHassePasswoerter
the point of Byleth is that they had a personality but it was very muted until Sothis (and the player) entered the scene, it was so muted that Byleth doesn't seem to have any connections with any of the mercenaries that I can recall
@@NoRegs30 That's kind of what happens when you've got alexithymia. I'm familiar. Doesn't mean they've got no personality.
@@IchHassePasswoerter
I never said they didn’t have a personality, other people are just bad at picking up on subtlety
@@NoRegs30 Fair point.
In terms of a rival merc you can later recruit I think it was fine.
I didnt have much expectation to be honest so seeing Byleth have lines or personality at all was a fun change regardless of good or bad theyre used in each route.
Byleth should have at least gotten 5 Supports. The 2 we got and the 3 lords. I also had higher expectations for their antagonistic role as I was among the people who thought it would be cool if W:3H Byleth experianced 3 Houses routes before the game started and attempted to create an even better ending for everyone.
Personally I would LOVE to see a battle between Byleth and Ike, or Jeralts mercenaries vs Greils Mercenaries.
Byleth honestly felt forced as the enemy. Honestly there was just no reason to fight them they were just the enemy because of Shez's confused goals. The game honestly relies too much on 3 Houses while also trying to tear it down. Honestly it felt like the devs at KT were afraid of Byleth outshining Shez.
You got it twisted. It's the polar opposite, they didn't want Shez to outshine Byleth not Byleth outshining Shez. The logic you insist on makes no sense.
1 reply I can't see
Yeah, this exactly.
@@nuibaba280 no it’s not. As they say, it’s trying to tear down 3 houses while being restricted to not do so. They wanted to keep Byleth out of the game because they knew that Byleth would easily outshine Shez, since Byleth is connected to the story where as Shez isn’t. They wanted Shez to outshine Byleth but couldn’t do that. The logic they are using makes perfect sense. They are tearing down three houses while using it as to boost sales. As they said, Byleth is only the enemy because of Shez’s vanity, and nothing more, making Byleth a very forced enemy.
@@moonmoon2479 No they aren't. They actively add lore to Three Houses and expand the world. And they give Byleth tons of respect even more than 3 Houses since Byleth can job to losers like Thales and Kostas in cutscenes while Three Hopes makes Byleth the Lu Bu that can be recruited. It's co-existing with Houses as a canon alternate timeline, and that's the reason they "keep Byleth out" because they don't want a rehash of Houses where Byleth is the super awesome teacher that does everything again. It'd just be the same story.
Byleth started off as an enemy because they killed Shez's merc group, it has nothing to do with vanity because Shez is the one willing to recruit Byleth and accept that death is just a fact of the mercenary life.
3:55 I found it pretty immersion breaking and main-character-powers. That Byleth was so inspirational to everybody while barely saying anything at all. Most the time they just seemed like a canvas for the characters to project their own self-reflection onto and then praise Byleth for making them realize something. Definitely could have been avoided if they had talked more. They also could have shown Byleth growing warmer better, like Jeralt observed, if they had been voice acted.
I think you hit it right on the head Ghast. One thing I thought you could’ve mentioned in the support section is that Edelgard’s A support with Hubert changes and how absurd it is that the game does that but doesn’t give her supports with El or the other leaders.
God I hate Azure gleam so much lmao
As usual, Byleth for good or ill has the most impact when Edelgard is involved. The two are joined at the hip it seems as friends, foes, student and teacher, or even lovers.
I mean, the dynamic between the two is literally what the main/credits theme is about, so I'd hope it would feel important
I never played this game. But Blyleth as an antagonist doesn't sit well with me. I guess, I've gotten too attached to this particular character...
honestly same. because of this fact, i couldn't really like this game. people say byleth is a self insert character but i never saw them as one. maybe it's cuz i never see protags as myself and stick to their intended names but yeah, they're silent but you could tell there is also emotion in them. idk dude im just too attached to byleth, seeing their journey and connecting with the characters. also the fact that three houses was released years ago, there is personally a stronger connection with byleth rather than shez that is suddenly the protag whom, in the lore and setting established for years, you just meet. would love a remake for fe3h to flesh out the plot more instead of an alt timeline (which would not happen).
Merc gonna merc.
Good 4am everyone!
Congrats 100k. I'm not at all familiar with fire emblem franchise, I only playing the warriors spin-offs. Imo warriors spin-offs with collaboration has better production value compared to its traditional counterpart, which got me really conflicted. But really glad at the end because it change the bad perception around musou genre. It is more than mash your way to victory
Anyway I didn't even play the mainline three houses but the lore is truly intriguing, thanks to you I was able to appreciate its greatness without really playing it.
I really don't like turn based strategy game, I tried the battle system in three houses by borrowing my friend Switch for a day, But it didn't click.
I wish Byleth and Dimitri interacted more since I am a fan of their ship but sadly, we didn't get any of that. Instead that went to stupid Shez. At least we got the Yuri support with Dimitri tho. So it's not all bad.
as much as I enjoyed this game I have to agree that the storyline felt incomplete especially when the ending doesn't change at all especially in Azure Gleam, I was expecting to see if they could've save Edelgard after Thales was defeated, and also some reactions about Rhea and Byleth joining as ally in Azure Gleam, and make Byleth a teacher after the war is over and when garreg march gets re-opened or something like that
late to this
Played through Scarlet Blaze, my main objective in the game being to beat Byleth. For some reason the duality between the two protagonists made me really invested in their inevitable final battle, so every time they would appear on the battle field I would try my best to defeat them in single combat while the other units took care of the main objective. This made it so that during my first playthrough I couldn't recruit them, but I got to experience a three-way fight with Between Heaven and Earth playing shortly followed with the final match I was so desperately waiting, so yeah, It was a perfect character for me even when I ended up repeating chapter 10 for the "recruit" path (also, I liked a lot the chapter with "posessed" Shez because of something you might already have figured out).
I wish that AG actually did have an alternate path where following the Zharas chapter, Edelgard doesn’t go back into baby mode and the final chapter is a 1v1v1, akin to SB’s final chapter.
Wow, we feel exactly the same on both hopes and houses Byleth.
Feels like Recruitable Byleth suffered the same fate as Crimson Flower. You know: last thing developed, least time put in. It's a shame, because I really like what there *is* and wish there was more.
My older brother is autistic and I recognize a lot of him in byleth. That and the fact that I’m personally a very blunt and straightforward person make that i love byleth. They’re a combination of us and it’s pretty fun to walk in on each other and oh hey that’s you on screen!
Honestly the Jeralt Byleth support chain made me actually cry. It warmed me sm seeing Byleth and Jeralt have a happyish ending in this game and having actual characterization
The long and short of my take on it is:
Good but not nearly enough of it.
I’d say that they just aren’t there enough even post recruitment to really explore the implications of what they are in the story.
I’d have liked to see more of them come out as a foil to Shez and Arval but sadly that was just too short a time to really set them up as anything other than a motive for Shez.
Most of the heavy lifting comes from what we know of Byleth in 3 Houses compared to what we see of Shez and Arval in 3 Hopes rather than what they both contribute in the same entry.
I do appreciate what we get post recruitment, I just feel that there’s just so little of it.
Very well done analysis. Three Hopes did a great job of showing how Byleth/Sothis created the trajectory of Three Houses, but fell flat with really digging into what Three Houses never expounded upon: Byleth being infused with the Crest of Flames and thus the soul of Sothis. Sothis feels almost like an after thought some how
Here's my question. In the final fight between Shez and Byleth, if Byleth had somehow obtained the Sword of the Creator would Shez still have won?
Probably not they already went out of their way to nerf Byleth.
Probably not. The Sword of the Creator is Sothis's bones, and is canonically the strongest Heroes Relic. If Byleth had it during that final fight with Shez, I highly doubt Shez would win, even with Arval's help.
Probably not
no lol. The entire point was that Byleth got hindered so Shez snatched their W.
@@nuibaba280 Byleth in 3 Hopes doesn't have the sword of creator and even when Shez wins its because of a combination of Byleth holding back or not even being the one in control of their body.
Genuinely when i heard that they didn't want to change Byleth too much to preserve the feelings of the og one i felt even more angry than if they had made Byleth bland again, they get the chance to make him a good character and all they think about is preserving the players feelings S.M.H
Also since i never really followed Dimitri or Claude's route thinking they'd be the same as Edelgard with very little difference i'm actually surprised to ehar that edel is basically a puppet in this timeline that's another crazy missed opportunity damn it's like they didn't want this game to be too interesting lore wise
Edelgard becoming a puppet only happens in Azure Gleam.
So the argument of not invalidating 3 Houses (which I recall seeing interviews of gsme devs expressing this idea), on my interpretation at least, is that they didn't want to create a timeline where the students and world were better off without Byleth being a professor.
It's very silly, because if this is the case then the writers just put themselves into positions where a lot of people and factions are indeed better off without Byleth. The Agarthans aren't running around as part of the Empire, the war doesn't last 5+ years, Dimitri doesn't go mad (barring CF), no missiles launched from the Agarthans, etc. The way I think this should have been balanced is by making each of the lords worse off as people/leaders. For Edelgard this is clearly not the case, as she is better off without the Agarthans running around, both from a world and as a leader positions. Dimitri ends up arcing differently in 3 Hopes, but to my knowledge there are no moments where he just gives in to his darkness to a degree of even Remire village in 3 Houses. Claude is just an idiot in 3 Hopes in a way that Byleth not being there doesn't properly explain.
So yeah, the writers shot themselves in one foot right out of the gate and then proceeded to shoot themselves in the other foot by not having this game end properly. It's a damn shame too. The endings 3 Hopes already has are full of potential to explore each of the lords, their relationship to one another, and even the continent as a whole.
Edit: Also I prefer Byleth in 3 Hopes way more than in 3 Houses. They're not immediately idolized by every character they come into contact with and don't randomly excel at being a teacher despite the fact that their communications skills are meant to he horrible, which 3 Hopes portrays better.
I’ll agree on the fact that Byleth’s Communication skills being terrible DID indeed make their role as a Teacher confusing when they’re automatically good at it. I won’t agree on the idea that they were immediately idolized, as after playing Three Houses a lot for years, I still never once got that impression, but I’m not willing to argue on what counts as automatic Idolization or not, so I won’t press it. I DEFINITELY can’t agree on Byleth being better here, considering the way they’re handled is so incredibly poor, I felt you could remove them AND Shez entirely from the Game, and nothing would change (maybe not for the Kostas thing, but I digress)
As for the actual main part of your entire comment, I completely agree, in the Writers attempts to NOT Undermine Three Houses, they ended up Undermining BOTH Games, for as you said, all the Lords technically l end up somewhat better than Three Houses.
Edelgard is overall better because she doesn’t have the Agarthans anymore, which actually serves to make Edelgard in Three Houses WORSE, as the main reason for working with them was that she needed their Strength to actually beat the REST of Fódlan, but Three Hopes just proves she didn’t, thus destroying what was left of Crimson Flower’s good parts. Dimitri although not reaching the Highs of Azure Moon Dimitri, never reaches his lows either, and the fact that Dimitri had to let go of his revenge for Duscur in order to do the right thing for his people in Azure Moon, is completely undermined as Dimitri gets his revenge in Azure Gleam anyways, with little in the ways of conflict on that front. Finally Claude, he’s now more of the Tactical Schemer Three Houses wanted him to be in Three Hopes, but then does the same mistake as Versant Wind and never has Claude truly change from it (Claude says he’ll think about it, but then the next chapter has him continue to do the same anyways), then the end of Golden Wildfire happens, and after all the Chaos Claude created during the Story, including his random decision to kill Rhea as if that will somehow convince the Kingdom to give up, he suddenly decides to suggest everyone sign a Peace Treaty, that even CLAUDE HIMSELF doesn’t think will actually be signed.
Then the Game writers, at the last possible moment, remembers they didn’t want to Undermine Three Houses, so they just cut the Story right there, and give us a laughable Ending Narration, and they call it a day. So in the End, they still couldn’t go through with their own Stories anyways. So by the End of each Route, I’m left to reflect on the fact that at the End of each Route, I felt that I didn’t actually accomplish anything, other than
@@nickcalderon2637 if I had to argue as to why I think Byleth is immediately idolized compared to Shez, it would be in their introductions with the lords after clearing the bandits. With Byleth the lords are practically arguing with each other trying to hire Byleth for themselves despite Shez helping them fend off a larger force (it's hard to argue this when taking into account the different genres, but even if we only took stronghold commanders into account this still rings true) AND they managed to kill Kostas where it didn't happen with Byleth.
@@JoseRodriguez-qs2vc In regards to the Remire/Barnabas Incident. In Three Houses, the Three Lords actually made it to Remire Village, and thus were able to request Jeralt’s help in fighting off the Bandits, so during the actual Chapter, Jeralt’s Mercenaries were fighting the majority of the Bandits off screen (again due to the difference in Genre, we never get to see it, granted Fire Emblem never really shows the full battle across the Field for every battle), so Byleth and the Lord Trio are fighting in a small corner against Kostas and a smaller force, so really I took the scene of the Three Lords trying to hire Byleth as “Hey, this guy is really skilled, AND close to our age, we should try to hire him on while he’s with us”, considering this conversation is after Alois “invites” them to the Monastery, and Jeralt lamenting they have no choice but to accept, so for the Trio, they’re also interested in the Child of the famed Former Captain of the Knights of Seiros, who also has a more mysterious background due to not knowing any of that.
Compare this to Shez, who the Trio met in the Woods on the way to Remire, Shez who already has Super Powers is able to help them more easily despite being outnumbered and lost in the Woods. Afterwards, they immediately introduce themselves AS Royalty unlike Three Houses where they don’t do that (Edelgard nearly does, but Dimitri interrupts her to offer his own proposal, then Claude implies they’re Royalty by calling them “His Highnesses”, but none of them actually reveal it), and also take an interest in him due to various different reasons, but don’t try to Hire him off the bat since Shez makes it clear he’s trying to get to Remire Village for other business, thats BEFORE Alois shows up to “Invite” Shez to their campsite, the later the Monastery.
So the difference there is that one actually gave them more of a chance to be hired at that current time, than the other who they weren’t sure if they would get said chance to hire. As for Kostas’s Fate, I felt it was a lazy way to have an excuse to rescue Monica more than anything, his Fate doesn’t matter more than what comes afterwards, as somehow Kostas’s Fate determines whether we go to the Red Canyon or the Fortress to rescue Monica. But the point is, I still don’t think it was automatic Idolization.
@@nickcalderon2637 I took Dimitri's interrupting of Edelgard in that scene as the lords figuratively tripping over each other trying to get Byleth's attention instead of them trying to keep their royal status a secret.. Also in fairness Edelgard still tries to hire Shez once they get to talk privately in the camp after that same battle. She's probably the only one of the 3 that is actively trying to get their attention in those scenes.
I think we might have to agree to disagree on this one. Considering how bad the Avatar pandering gets later on in 3 Houses, I took the opening scenes as more supporting material given how they're arguing over Byleth. At the same time I really dislike Byleth, so maybe I'm taking these early scenes a bit too poorly faithed.
Edit: While I agree that Kostas's death was to move the story in a different direction, the problem is that it still happened, and should be taken into account as to how the lords treat the respective mercenaries.
@@JoseRodriguez-qs2vc I was never trying to imply the Royals were trying to keep their status as a secret, simply saying they just didn’t reveal it to Byleth. Either way, most others I’ve argued with on this subject would’ve started throwing insults by now, so as much as I DO disagree in the Avatar Pandering in this Game, Agree to Disagree is fair enough. We atleast agree the Routes of Three Hopes contradict the Writers intentions.
So is this spin off the end of the three houses installments? Because of latest game engage coming soon?
I know this is a wierd comparison, but when I first saw Byleth was the "antagonist" of Three Hopes. I was worried they would pull a TLOU2 by making Byleth some sort of awful monster and make Shez the grand hero with no flaws. But I am glad Byleth is in many ways similar to how they were in Three Houses.
Sort of what they did. Because Shez gets everything they wanted handed to them on a silver platter with no consequences.
@@moonmoon2479 Except they didn't. Shez had to train to get stronger and still couldn't beat Byleth in a fair fight. It isn't Last of Us at all.
@@nuibaba280 except it is, because they are stronger than everyone else while everyone else suffers for that strength, but Shez gets it on a silver platter. Without Arval, Shez is nothing but no consequences come from that. They just are that powerful now, with no repercussions.
@@moonmoon2479 Not true. Crest wielders just inherent their crest. If they "suffer" by working hard then so does Shez. Shez had to develop their strength on their own and learn how to use a sword on their own, they didn't have a teacher. Having magic doesn't matter if Shez can't use it properly. And that's not Last of Us at all, did you play the game? The comparison was made because of Joel. Not the random idea that Shez is strong.
"Without Arval" Arval and Shez are one and the same. It's why Shez still has their powers even after Arval's passed. It's the connection Sothis and Byleth have. What repercussions did Byleth have from their inherited powers?
@@nuibaba280 no, that crest gives them power in places in which they do not want, like Claude, shortens lifespan, like Edelgard, or places a heavy burden on them, like Dimitri. Shez has no such consequences. It’s all perfectly for free. Crest wielders always have consequences.
Learning to use a sword just “on your own” and being good with it, yep, that’s for free, because what hard work is that? What sacrifices come from that? Nothing. Meanwhile, everyone else in the cast suffers for the power they have for one reason or another, Shez doesn’t. And yes, that’s the last of us, Abby gets to be this great hero with no consequences for her actions, while the whole game is about consequences.
Lol, making crap up again. Where is that said? Seriously, where? Because if that’s true, then that would mean that if Arval dies, so does Shez. Because if Shez dies, then Arval does. If they are one and the same, why can one live without the other? Why are they connected in that way? Randomly? Nah. Next time think before you speak.
And what does Byleth suffer, loss of humanity (would have been more if it worked out as intended), a heart that doesn’t beat (and may never), a war they don’t want to take part in, being powerful yet only being able to save a handful of the people they care about, and when they get the power, Sothis fuses with them, not dies and then the power is Shez’s for no reason. The entire game is based around that very tragic idea that you can’t save everyone. Meanwhile, Shez doesn’t care, gets power for free, and gets to keep it when Arval dies. Yeah sorry, that’s a silver platter where Shez gets everything they want for free.
What made me really wonder why Shez is seen as inferior to Byleth is the mock battle between the houses that you unlock with Gatekeeper as a flash back. Shez stumbles on to the battlefield trying to get to the monastery and the three classes decide to gang up on them and they just beat them all. Which is impressive considering that in canon each house has a few people who are insanely strong and capable fighters, including the house leaders (Dimitri and Edelgard's crests both grant them super human strength, Claude has a tactical mind that few can match aside from Hubert and Byleth, according to Felix most of the nobles of Faergus learned to fight before they learn to read and write their name and even Leonie, who was trained by Jeralt, remarks that Felix is considered one of the best, Lysithea is considered a magical prodigy and has more than enough power to level a building with her full potential unleashed, Edelgard regards Ferdinand as one of the strongest fighters in The Black Eagles during their supports in Three Houses, Petra fights using styles taught to her from both Brigid and Dagdan soldiers that are described by many as incredibly powerful and even superior to the fighting styles traditionally taught in Fodlan, Hubert is Hubert, and even Rapheal who is about the only person who can match Dimitri in sheer power falls short compared to a base form Shez). This made me really go "Just how strong is Byleth if Shez falls short in most of their encounters"? I know Byleth is strong but Shez is no slouch themselves in terms of combat prowess. Did they seriously just do this as a story thing?
Poor writing. Shez is just awful because they are just super powerful at complete random, at least Byleth is connected to the story, but Shez is just super powerful because the writers said so. It’s really dumb. Look at it that way, they want their precious OC to be stronger than everyone else without a backstory or any of the work, but because of Nintendo and IS, can not make said character more powerful than Byleth. So it’s just poor. Remember that for all of the strengths these characters have, it all comes with consequences as well, except Shez, they get it on a silver platter, with no consequences. Meanwhile, Byleth has no humanity or very little, and their life stolen from them, Lysithia has a very shortened lifespan, Edelgard, well you know, same with Dimitri. But Shez gets all they want and more without a single consequence. So that’s why.
@@moonmoon2479 That's far too much projection. Shez isn't powerful at complete random, they're consistently strong just not stronger than Byleth. And Shez only beat them in a mock battle when the lords and a couple of classmates were at their weakest while Shez has been an experienced merc all their life. Shez had to actively train for their strength too, the supports cover this and make that as clear as day. The characters don't get their strength from consequences, it's through training like Shez. Shez got their swordsmanship through hard work.
@@nuibaba280 lol, seems you can’t read. All the crests and power people like Lysithia has come with consequences. Shez doesn’t. Shez’s training doesn’t do anything has they aren’t even close to Byleth and are pretty much nothing without Arval. That “training” means nothing. Not to mention, Shez had the power when the three lords were young, but they still had the crests. So yeah, Shez got nothing from hard work. Just a power they got at random, sorry that’s hard to stomach.
If they aren’t powerful at complete random, they why does Shez have Arval? What other reason?
@@moonmoon2479 You're the one who can't read, you really think that their crests and weapon usage are enough? They say directly that they train and work hard to make use of this power effectively at all. It's the same for Shez, it's why their power still wasn't enough on multiple different occasions. "Shez's training doesn't do anything" it literally does, Shez didn't develop space and teleportation powers until later on like shadow slide. It comes from Shez improving in battle. And they use that teleportation to stop Sothis from defeating them for example.
Shez has Arval because they have Epimenides' crest stone inside them like how the crest wielders inherited blood and all of that. Myson tells us this in Azure Gleam. It's like how Byleth only has Sothis and Divine Pulse from Sothis' crest stone. Shez and Arval are one and the same, Arval's powers are Shez's powers and it falls on Shez to use them and develop them properly. Which they do, it's apart of their promoted class and new moves.
Shez beating the weakest version of the students as an experienced seasoned merc at that point is perfectly fine. They didn't even face the entire house, just a couple of students. Stop looking for excuses to complain already.
Azure Gleam started strong but then became a complete dumpster fire in Part 2. And it's absurdly weird how Shez faces and kills Byleth in Azure Gleam in the non-recruit route, and Seteth, Flayn, Felix, and Dimitri have nothing to say about it. The route where you support Rhea ends up being the route you take away the one thing that she spend centuries to bring back.
Why would they have anything to say about it? They don't know Byleth and Rhea wasn't on the battlefield. Rhea kept the secret of Byleth from Seteth and Flayn.
@@nuibaba280 You'd think that Seteth and Flayn would recognize the power of the progenitor god coming from Byleth. Or, you know, feel it weird that the Ashen Demon seems to bear an appearance that seems to resemble that of the Nabatean race. Or hell, when you recruit Byleth, whether Jeralt wanted their existence a secret, Catherine and Seteth are under no obligation to do so.
@@0axis771 Seteth only recognizes Byleth when they wield the Sword of the Creator. The magical sword that only a specific person can use. Also, Catherine isn't told about Jeralt's decision to keep it a secret and everyone from the Church party's separated from Rhea: the only person that'd recognize Byleth.
@@nuibaba280 Seteth is a Nabatean. He would definitely notice how odd Byleth's eyes and hair resemble those of Nabataen lineage have. And Catherine KNOWS who Jeralt is. No one in the Central Church doesn't know of him, so Catherine would easily tell Rhea about how they got the former Knight of Seiros Jeralt back.
@@0axis771 It doesn't matter if he is when he isn't normally fighting Byleth and he still had no idea what was going on. It's exactly why demands Rhea for the truth, because he didn't know. Byleth having a specific colored hair doesn't mean anything as we've already seen multiple characters with green hair like Linhardt. Reminder that they're in the middle of a war. They couldn't go back to Rhea. There is no reason for Seteth to focus on Byleth when Byleth isn't open about their powers.
Catherine would not tell Rhea unless she wanted her to. Rhea is never interested in Jeralt in the actual game. Jeralt is just a mercenary at this point in the story and they're in the middle of WAR.