Mary Eberstadt | How the West Really Lost God
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- čas přidán 15. 11. 2022
- In the sixth Ramsay Lecture for 2022 US author and cultural critic Mary Eberstadt expands on the central thesis of her 2013 title, How the West Really Lost God, arguing that the decline in Western churchgoing is more attributable to the collapse of the Western family, especially since the 1960s, than any other commonly touted cause.
In pressing her case, she disputes prevailing arguments about why Christianity is in decline, including what she claims is the dominant theory, ‘that material prosperity drives out God.’ Citing an array of historical and statistical evidence, she shows that poorer and less educated Westerners are less likely to go to church, with greater religious devotion among the wealthy and middle class. She also examines the psychological impact of the two world wars of the 20th century, as well as the impact of industrialization and mass mobility. While conceding that these have had some impact on religious devotion, she argues that the biggest cause of religious decline is the breakdown of the family unit, flowing on from the sexual revolution of the 1960s.
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No one "loses" God. They didn't have God a second ago and forgot where they put him down. No. People discard God. I did.
I think about going back everyday, of reacquainting myself with things spiritual. But I give myself excuse after excuse to continue on my path to hell, telling myself there's time left to accept God. There isn't, we all need to get right with the lord today because there is no tomorrow. There is only today.
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It is certainly true that the lack of family importance has damaged our society in a myriad of ways that are changing our lives. Education is no longer important. Discipline in schools is a serious problem. If family structure with a father at the head, providing order and cohesion, no longer exists, how can schools provide the order needed to educate? No respect for authority of family or God. Children no longer learn many of society's organizing principles in school. There is a major disconnect between our institutions: The family is disintegrating; schools are disintegrating; community is disintegrating; religion is disintegrating; law and order are disintegrating. We no longer have values that unite us in common goals and understanding. Only individuals, unguided by any transcendent, organizing authority, matter. Atomization causes free floating lost people who fear each other.
That's what you get if generations of 'christians' raise only the religious and kick out and banish any other individual that doesn't correspond with the religious template.
What did you think was going to happen?
Family importance?
If God than God.
Family can't come first if God does.
Now God just became a cause/excuse not to raise your children.
Proud son of Kain right?
Don't even know he had spawn or not.
Cause if he didn't, we're all Able's children anyway huh? 😂
So family disintegration leads to more and bigger family disintegration? Who would have thought!?!
What's my family value if my family didn't value me cause I can't find Gods worth?
That's cool.
Time's on my side.
I enjoy the hell on earth they're already in.
And will continue to do so.
Parentsss.. used to be a time I'd have preferred to kill them. Maybe even just for creating me only and shoving off all responsibility to a fairy tale..
I'm enjoying their collapse!
They are in bondage to satan from which they need rescuing.
Amen
Well said..
And a Republic, small government, cannot function without those bases.
I’m a 65 year old man, and late in life, I had my fill of the church of me and cafeteria Christology of evangelical Protestantism, I converted to Eastern Orthodoxy, and I never looked back. I can count my regrets in life on one hand. Chief among those is not converting sooner in life.
What do you mean by Eastern Orthodoxy? I grew up in the Armenian Orthodox church. Also, what is it about the Eastern Orthodox church that you favor over the Protestant church?
@tubalcain6874
Sad to read your words...
@@JeffHovsepian
For many protestants it's as easy as ABC...
Anything But Catholicism.
Tubal Cain in reply....
I also am asking what Eastern Orthodoxy? with all respect, l know only of Eastern Religion. Thank you for yr patience.
@@fritula6200 Google Eastern orthodoxy. I believe that is the Catholic religion or cult whatever you want to call it without the pope.
This is a brilliant and insightful lecture. Clearly, within the mainline Protestant denominations the problem has been capitulation of their stance on traditional moral issues. This has facilitated massive congregational losses and turned them into cheerleaders for the Sexual Revolution. Now Evangelicals are tempted to follow the mainline denomination with their own brand of capitulation. Increasingly, Evangelical pastors are fearful of preaching on traditional moral issues because they think that such preaching is too divisive and "political." They seem to fail to notice that the New Testament integrates repentance from sin and a transformed (moral) life with true faith in Christ. Put another way, Evangelical pastors are failing to teach sanctification and pretending that Christ merely wants to kindly justify us for heaven. It is a toothless gospel.
it's not a toothless Gospel, but a false one - deriving from the fundamental error of protestantism: justification is real insofar one converts - and, as it is obvuious, that error is due to a bigoted position toward Catholicity
Divisive...political? Have you not heard of Donald Trump? It's not remaining silent on moral issues that is driving congregants away, but the hypocrisy of selective silence: denouncing some and ignoring others. Hence, the see-no-evil appalling silence of Jan. 6.
It's no gospel at all. The Christian message will always arouse controversy and hostilities because it is a fight between good and evil. People who will yoke themselves to a moral and spiritual discipline, and those who seek to make excuses for self seeking behavior.
Alien. In between there was a much better era.
Though Godlessness under Communism and rampant consumerism, individualism, and mass society seems to work.
I love God. God is love. End of story. All the rest is irrelevant. This is worldly nonsense, denominations are of man not God. God is love who cares about anything else?
There are still many Americans who believe in God!
@@alienigena4518doesn't demeaning others diminish you, and, so diminish the world?
@alienígena And the secular degenerates whose life is nothing beyond consumerism, instant gratification and the meaningless pursuit of others approval are enlightened intellectual giants?
@alienígena the data quoted in the lecture directly undermines that assumption
@@alienigena4518 You just advertised your voting record. Another loser liberal.
@@alienigena4518 all depends on your image of who God isn't. Mine created space-time and the rules by which 32 quarks interact with 3 forces, gluons, and defined into its fabric the mechanisms governing spdf orbital shape and function to process information.
And you believe this amount of ordered interaction across the universe is from randomness.
I see incredible order. And incredible order requires an incredible organizing principle.
Which is an extraordinary claim which has extraordinary evidence to back it.
Some flying Spaghetti monster, or tooth fairy which is capable of this,, and can bend spacetime at Planck scale at the moment time began.
"Do not conform to the patterns of this world" Romans 12.2
That's true because I am really an alien from Planet Stardust where Lord Ziggy Stardust comes from!
Paul of Tarsus wrote in what language that you speak read and write and can thus can translate from the original? I suppose his pinion is as good as that of anyone else, but do not do as others do is pretty good advice for anyone seeking the impossible, namely to become an individual(one that is undivided).
Christians in the far east and middle east, still holding to their faith regardless of the odds.
I am very very grateful for your talk on this
I am not formally educated in these matters. I grew up in a Christian household in Australia in the 60s. This was a time of great flux in the western world when social morays and ideas changed. Formalities were dropped and people became more casual. People began wearing denim. It was also a time when telecommunications expanded. Ideas that had largely remained with minorities could now spread to the broader community. To this point my parents and grandparents generations did not seem to have access to information that would question their faith. They were working class people and were not taught science at school. I noticed a noticeable decline in Christianity from this time.
God was born in London, England in 1947, not in Israel in 4 BC. The West didn't lose God but merely exchanged one for another. From Christ(who is just a man) to Bowie(on Earth-Ziggy's Earth or Terran name) or Ziggy Stardust(From Planet Stardust) who is Lord Stardust and God and Creator and Lord of the Worlds who created the universe out of Stardust! God is in the vine and His name is Bowie or Ziggy! God wears platform boots and He is a crossdressing, gender bending chameleon. That's God!
Latin ‘mos’ noun, singular ‘mores’ plural - meaning ways, customs. Example of Latin adopted in modern English with retained meaning
@@philodonoghue3062 God was born in London, England in 1947, not in Israel in 4 BC. The West didn't lose God but merely exchanged one for another. From Christ(who is just a man) to Bowie(on Earth-Ziggy's Earth or Terran name) or Ziggy Stardust(From Planet Stardust) who is Lord Stardust and God and Creator and Lord of the Worlds who created the universe out of Stardust! God is in the vine and His name is Bowie or Ziggy! God wears platform boots and He is a crossdressing, gender bending chameleon. That's God!
Churches have also absorbed secularism ie business and management modelsand progresivism ie social justice.
Agreed!
There are still millions of people in the West praying and living for the true God and our Lord Jesus Christ.
I don't think so! Many in the West are more atheistic than in Third World countries.
I stand on my word and know it is true. For their is still Power in the Blood of Jesus. And no matter what demon or devil says or make it look like, the Church of the Living God in Jesus Name had not lost it's Holy Ghost Power. What we are seeing is the Word of Jesus being fulfilled. But those millions are and will continue to pray. And the gates of hell cannot prevail against the praying Church of the Living God. Thay Church is standing and will stand and will go out with Power. But, only a Blood Bought Born Again, Bible Believing person know and understand this and rejoice in the knowing. We don't dwell on the antichrist. We dwell on our Father. For after the Holy Ghost came HE gave us power. He will bless the Nigerian people, because millions are praying behind the scenes that you know not of. Have a good day. No need to respond.
The more prosperous you are the more people think they don't need God.
Agree and also in more technologically developed societies, more people think they also can be like God and think they don't need God.
@@arcturus4067 this is why the majority of miracles are now occurring in the countries where dependence on them is essential.
The miracles from prayers for healing Allah does nor seem to answer are being miraculously answered by Christ, often in villages to mention His name is punishable by death.
Many videos out of Africa and Asia testifying to this, but healing of the drug addicted and broken in the West and also occurring in greater numbers.
Goes that not rather depend on what you are calling "god", and assuming a man's(human being's) god to be that which is more important to him than anything else at any given moment, self evidently they *do* need whatever fits that prescription. Obviously they get by just fine without anyone else's mister god- which is self-evidently fantasy
@@vhawk1951kl who created the rules which govern physics?
czcams.com/video/FBYeBb4C5Rc/video.html
Yup- atoms bumping together made this, and code a million times more sophisticated than Morse code. And, the DNA in your current body, which, if stretched out and linked together,, would reach to the Sun and back 300 times, each nanometer has base pairs open for reading or bound to histones, also...
Different ideas we have about "sky-gods."
Mine is based in particle physics and "the Standard Model," cosmology, physical chemistry, molecular biology, and the mathematics of semiosis, statistics, and information.
At least I know what being a God requires. You simply believe all that is necessary is imagination.
@@glenliesegang233 You seem to imagine that any evidence of what appears to be a rule, which may be prescriptive or merely descriptive is necessarily contrived or devised by something identifiable, but I put that down to how you were conditioned, programmed, wound up, or as they say 'educated'. Neither I nor anyone with whom I am familiar cannot survive without, or *needs* to go in for any such trivial process of identification, any more than either needs to identify who or what stupefied you. Your lack of wits and learning is positively bellowing.I neither know nor need to know anything about what you call-but have no idea what it means, physics. In my experience sloppy mentation is oft accompanied by sloppy language.
Magnificent lecture
Im listening to this lady from Poland.
The poor and less educated people are more believers of God over here than those in cities who are mocking the western lifestyle.
Same thing in Hungary: there is a serious culture built on "poor and honest and hardworking" characters. This character is featured in many literature for kids, teens and young adults and in a way tge current government is promoting it too.
This kind of a cultural element doest exist in our societies. The west is not catholic - its more jewish or protestant.
The difference is obvious.
That merely means that anti theism is rampant on university campuses.
Jordan Peterson seems the strongest force in the west fighting back against this decline.
Jordan is a racist, sexist, homophobic person!
All he does is whine about how he dislikes something or other as if his relative subjective and temporary manifestations of the emotional function are relevant to anything of particular significance to anyone. He has a butterfly mind that flits from one obsession flower to the next ; moreover his whining tone detracts from some of the good sense he utters on occasion.
Agreed, there is a decline in traditional expressed religious practice but an excelleration of hunger for a knowledge of and relationship with God. Those are two different things.
Believe me it is this hunger for knowledge which has led to the very abandonment of religious belief at the centre of this presentation. The road to atesiesm is littered with Bibles that have been read from cover to cover, so keep reading.
Why do you suppose that what is called 'religion' has anything to do with the mister god fantasy when it is plainly concerned with those manifestations of the emotional function, namely liking and disliking that dreaming machines, or me(human beings) call morals or ethics which are no more than relative subjective and temporary likes and dislikes or by-products of the emotional function to which dreaming machines are such slaves?
We lose God we lose everything
We gain God we gain all we ever need
Tell that to 6 million Jews murdered by the nazis.
Well I gain more by losing God.
@@johnpolitis9060 "What profit a man if he gain the whole world and lose his own soul?"
Thank you for this honest assessment and for not using the word, "existential", even one time. Unless I missed it?
Oh no, but she did say transcendental. lol
Well said, seemingly every halfwit and his brother seems to imagine that he must somehow weave" existential" into his utterances regardless of whether he has the faintest idea what he seeks to convey thereby, or what that bloody word means.
These judges and leaders can say what they want against this evil. They just don't have the guts that believers are commanded to do
Especially atheism
@alienígena Especially Christianity.
@@alienigena4518 2. Communism which resulted in the death of over 100 million people in the 20th Century. Atheism is not just wrong - it's evil.
After living in the US for 40 years, I went back and found peace and serenity in my religion of birth, Islam. I arrived in the US at the age of 19 and very quickly became areligious and secularized. Money, sex, and other forms of hedonism was all I lived for. But as the years went by, I saw the meaninglessness of it all. This hit me around the age of 50. I saw the destruction of the family in the West due to rabid feminism. Ironically, Muslims born andcraised in the West are not immune to the "effects" of the present Western themes. Divorce among Western Muslims had risen sharply as well as domestic violence and other issues.
Rabid feminism has led to a high divorce rate in the United States.
@@kevinharris5737 Rabid patriarchy has led to wars for the last 5000 years killing millions of males!
Of course, good old Islam keeps females in their place.
I think it has nothing to do with religion but with capitalism, I am from an underdeveloped country. And most of us are Christians and of course we value family more and we still support each other despite everything. By the way, it is a pity that Muslims do not believe in the divinity of Jesus. Jesus rose and the ideas of him are part of the history of many societies including your religion.
@@NSOcarth Well, you have some good points but here is where human evolution and genetics come in. There are far more males in prisons all over the world, regardless of race/culture. Female prison population is a fraction of what male prison population is and it has always been this way. Why? Men are more violent, aggressive, belligerent and simply commit more crimes than females, particulary violent crimes. It is testosterone and men have a lot more of it. I am not for "shrouding" women but if a females dresses like a whore/slut, she will generally be looked upon and treated as such by 99% of men. This is human evolution.
.
Christanity got the Savages & Barbarians civilized & When they thrown it away they come back to be Savages & Barbarians
Yes, and even worse than at the beginning.
Except that the olden days "temple prostitution & human sacrifices" manifested in its modern avatars as Sodom & Abortion,, even in Christian names,
Thank you
My father taught me to always follow facts and data. Thank you. Fear God and Dreadnought.
People follow incentives - this presentation did not address the trend in atomisation in terms of affordability. It's increasingly easy to decide to remove yourself from your family when the government will back you up financially. Easy to make decisions (even bad ones) when someone else is footing the bill. Churches passively accept family breakup and so do governments. This will of course reverse once welfarism and monetary excesses become unable to be borne any more.
Very simple, we didn't fight the good fight of faith. Lack of prayer, fasting and lack of humility.
Tell that to Putin. Where is god for the Ukrainians?
?
@@July41776DedicatedtoTheProposi Hell is one big party!
Ps. 2:21Why do the [a]nations [b]rage,
And the people plot a [c]vain thing?
2The kings of the earth set themselves,
And the rulers take counsel together,
Against the Lord and against His Anointed,[d] saying,
3“Let us break Their bonds in pieces
And cast away Their cords from us.”
4He who sits in the heavens shall laugh;
The Lord shall hold them in derision.
5Then He shall speak to them in His wrath,
And distress them in His deep displeasure:
6“Yet I have [e]set My King
[f]On My holy hill of Zion.”
7“I will declare the [g]decree:
The Lord has said to Me,
‘You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You.
8Ask of Me, and I will give You
The nations for Your inheritance,
And the ends of the earth for Your possession.
9You shall [h]break them with a rod of iron;
You shall dash them to pieces like a potter’s vessel.’ ”
10Now therefore, be wise, O kings;
Be instructed, you judges of the earth.
11Serve the Lord with fear,
And rejoice with trembling.
12[i]Kiss the Son, lest [j]He be angry,
And you perish in the way,
When His wrath is kindled but a little.
Blessed are all those who put their trust in Him.
I'd very much like to hear Mary Eberstadt talk about Leo Tolstoy. He didn't turn away from God but rather the corrupt Russian Orthodox Church. What the hell is going on with it today? (My philosophy professor Francis Meyers at the University of Denver in 1967 taught me it is very necessary to have "hell" in that expression for it to have the necessary punch.)
The Orthodox Church is the fastest growing Christian tradition-if not religion in general-in the Western world. More than meets the eye.
I wish I could hear from her a speech titled "How the Catholic church lost God". I left the Catholic Church after almost 5 decades of being a Catholic since I really could not find God in it. So I named it not a church but a cult. Yes, that's the truth.
I just listened to this message discussing this same subject, it might help you czcams.com/video/jdlczbO5Csc/video.html
Search CZcams for ‘Protestations convert to Catholicism’
Better go bck to your church before you regret it
Read her book Primal Scream
Reinforces what is observable the last half century, and adds novel insights. For example, the middle child is becoming extinct.
You mean Primal Scam.
La familia! Divorce. Single motherhood, absent father. divorce: lonely, drifting, hurt, angry. Single parent: angry, lonely, confused, hurt. Maybe a rebound coming of hope?
I’ve seen lots of people, including some family members, withdraw from faith. But I’ve also seen some of the strongest and most capable converts to Christianity that I’ve seen in my over 50 years of adult life - deeply good, fun-loving, unpretentious people -good friends.
Important and good talk … thank you for sharing … a humble contribution … part of the problem in the West … is that we confuse vocational training … with education … and we need to ask ourselves … are these two the same … I’d suggest not … while vocational training produces teachers, nurses, lawyers, accountants, programmers and the like … is education not about moral enlightenment, the capacity to reason and discern and being an upright citizen … about self-knowledge … and self-mastery … and I’m not talking about the limits of the vocation of psychology … my area of vocation … and I find so often PhD colleagues I work with … to really be quite dull and incapable of discerning some of the very simple things … and education will inquire into those bigger questions around spirituality and the profound beyond the profane … 🙏
We began to devolve as a species when we turned our backs on God. When you lose hope in the future and stop aspiring to something bigger, better, higher, you start to coast and lose forward momentum.
Hmm. Given what greedy, vicious, un-Christian things are done in the name of God, a better future might only be possible if we leave behind such superstition in public life.
@@rogerthornhill1970 c'mon Dave.
In the last days the love of many shall draw cold. We need a worldwide revival!
I have liberal leanings but this woman has a point and makes sense
The father of lies is a mighty and cunning foe. Fallen humanity are blind, sitting ducks, easy pickings.
Amen. You have been given deep insight!
The Pill and it's subsequent "dynamics": promiscuity, abortion and divorce is key. Also, and most importantly the aftermath of The second Vatican council cannot be understated nor ignored. Thirdly, the increase of women in the workplace has had socioeconomic effects to the detriment of society more so than to its benifit.
Something very little mentioned is the health effects the Pill has had on women in the last 50 years or so.
EXACTLY right!
God bless you and your family.
Let’s not forget education, so the general public has the ability to think critically and recognise religious lies
@@robertgroth9723 critical thinking, well if you call swallowing wholecloth the pablum of obfuscation and general lies taught by the communist/Marxist misinformation of the university elite well than you haven't been taught to think critically but inculcated with partial truths mixed with outright lies.
Oh, yes there are religious lies and liars but if you never bothered to dig deeper for the truth than job accomplished.
WHAT IS SPECIAL ABOUT BEING A HINDU?
By Francois Gautier.
Diversity in Divinity , Universal in Spirituality. Unity in Humanity
1) Believe in God ! - Aastik - Accepted
2) Don't believe in God ! - You're accepted as Nastik
3) You want to worship idols - please go ahead. You are a murti pujak.
4) You dont want to worship idols - no problem. You can focus on Nirguna Brahman.
5) You want to criticise something in our religion. Come forward. We are logical. Nyaya, Tarka etc. are core Hindu schools.
6) You want to accept beliefs as it is. Most welcome. Please go ahead with it.
7) You want to start your journey by reading Bhagvad Gita - Sure !
8) You want to start your journey by reading Upanishads - Go ahead.
9) You want to start your journey by reading Purana - Be my guest.
10) You just don't like reading Puranas or other books. No problem my dear. Go by Bhakti tradition . ( bhakti- devotion)
11) You don't like idea of Bhakti ! No problem. Do your Karma. Be a karmayogi.
12) You want to enjoy life. Very good. No problem at all. This is Charvaka Philosophy.
13) You want to abstain from all the enjoyment of life & find God - jai ho ! Be a Sadhu, an ascetic !
14) You don't like the concept of God. You believe in Nature only - Welcome. (Trees are our friends and Prakriti or nature is worthy of worship).
15) You believe in one God or Supreme Energy. Superb! Follow Advaita philosophy
16) You want a Guru. Go ahead. Receive gyaan.
17) You don't want a Guru.. Help yourself ! Meditate, Study !
18) You believe in Female energy ! Shakti is worshipped.
19) You believe that every human being is equal. Yeah! You're awesome, come on let's celebrate Hinduism!
"Vasudhaiva kutumbakam" (the world is a family)
20) You don't have time to celebrate the festival.
Don't worry. One more festival is coming! There are multiple festivals every single day of the year.
21) You are a working person. Don't have time for religion. Its okay. You will still be a Hindu.
22) You like to go to temples. Devotion is loved.
23) You don't like to go to temples - no problem. You are still a Hindu!
24) You know that Hinduism ☺ is a way of life, with considerable freedom.
25) You believe that everything has God in it. So you worship your mother, father, guru, tree, River, Prani-matra, Earth, Universe!
26) And If you don't believe that everything has GOD in it - No problems. Respect your viewpoint.
27) "Sarve jana sukhino bhavantu " (May you all live happily)
You represent this! You're free to choose, my dear Hindu!
This is exactly the essence of Hinduism, all inclusive .. That is why it has withstood the test of time inspite of repeated onslaught both from within and outside, and assimilated every good aspects from everything . That is why it is eternal !!!
There is a saying in Rigveda , the first book ever known to mankind which depicts the Hinduism philosophy in a Nutshell -" Ano bhadrah Krathavo Yanthu Vishwathah"- Let the knowledge come to us from every direction..
So….Hinduism is a catch all
Families are like the little girl with the curl: When they are good they are very very good, and when they are bad they are horrible.
In my opinion it is not exactly the decline in stable family structure, rather it is the degree to which people engage in sacrifice and financial responsibility. Secularism grows in the culture of hand-to-mouth financial situations, and also in Marxist notions which focus on the state being responsible for financial support.
In my first year in college, my mythology professor talked about the Greek creation myth, the Roman creation myth, and the Jewish creation myth, i.e. God and Jesus.
Jesus is part of the Jewish creation myth? Does anyone, besides yourself and your esteemed professor, believe that?
Hi Mary. I found your presentation defensive and holding out little hope. I am only a beginning theology student at 71 and it is pretty obvious that nothing about civilization is set in concrete. Like all civilizations, even the most impressive, they all eventually come and go. Despite our glorious cultural heritage that we live and revel in and relish, what makes you think ours is the most special and eternal?
Regarding what F Nietzche said about traditional faith's death of God he also talked about the lantern falling to the ground and snuffed out... the light of the Age of Reason.extinguished... and our pressing need to find meaning and purpose and significance elsewhere just before the 2 great world wars. He went insane (? syphilis) before he expounded.
Possibly you could say that the times of Martin Luther crystalized this cultural/religious fragmentation of the West. Luther put the responsibility of one's ultimate destiny in one's own hands instead of the divine guidance of the church.... justification by faith & sola scriptura. Catholic, Protestant or not, we are all heirs to this more individual, personal and now increasingly irreligious world.
But Christ made the church not an organization, but an organism, whose allegiance is to Another World.
Atheism rejects that world.
I am 70. I have studied and looked into these things a good part of life. Why? Since I was young,I wanted to know how we got to where we are at. You got a snapshot view, that is not all that inaccurate. When I embarked to study civilization, we study all of them. So, because our civilization, is in devolution. A passing away of older understandings to newer ones. I'll just call it Neo western civilization, with all the subsets under it. Why Neo? Because it is morfing into something other and new. Good comment.
Also, many have learned to think for themselves, and are less likely to be taken in, by someone's opinion that has-been deified in social opinion. In the church or out of it. There are all kinds of different errors in thinking people can make with a little bit of knowleeddge, but not enough. Easy don't patronize people, by thinking they always need help from you. Like Jobs comforters. When I first read that I thought, boy it a sounded good. But then the climax. Nobody knows yet all they need to know. People don't like thinking their to stupid before others. It violates intrinsic values of self understanding in.the things they confront it in life. I like discussions that turn into a new understanding of things; even when it's the same old thing. The "Now I know why, " moments. Or how about I guess didnt know why after all. For many its they didn't have the last word and their extrinsic pride is ruffled. So they aren't ready for change, unless they change on their own. Intrinsic values enable us to change with conditions, which us towards seeking wisdom.
@@glenliesegang233 That is an assertion, Glen, as good as any other.
I personally think both atheists and atheists have got it wrong. None of us can claim to wrap up the fullest meaning of life and existence. It is an ultimate mystery we must learn to live within. That is not easy when we are prone to naturally seek solutions.
@@ivtch51 I believe teaching kids the world is not random, has magnificent order, and for a nation to have its morals taught acertain rules held in common brings a security not found if everyone makes their own rules.
Having a God who expects you to try to do your very best with absolute forgiveness if you admit without arrogance, uou didn't, will bring out the best in you.
As JP points out, to view God as a moral monster (or when parents teach their kids God is just waiting to send them to hell if they disobey his rules) are not psychologically beneficial.
Deciding you know it all is never good, and scoffing at others, belittling them for not believing as you do, really brings nothing of benefit to the world.
How could the West lose something that has never existed?
Church attendance is high in parts of the world where it bestows immediate real world benefits. People in the third world, get paid for attending the Church, whatever the denomination.
If Church attendance is the objective, there may be lesson in that for the West.
No we don't.
No they don’t 😂 where’d you pick that nonsense up?
@@minui8758 They do. I picked it up from those who receive benefits for attending Church. They are supposed to keep quiet about it, but not everyone can.
@@minui8758 Let me clarify my above comment.
Most get benefits for being members of the Church. But the benefits are reduced or completely cut off, if the attendance at the Church service is not regular. Children, from the Church or outside, receive some incentives like candy, for attending the Sunday school. So, impoverished neighbourhoods see high percentage attendance at Church.
What benefits are they paid?
Would have been good if she spelled out some plan to change things for the better. I would start by asking every church why if you believe in the importance of family you go out of your way to impress on single people that there is no need to get married ? I know of very few churches that aren’t pushing the you can be happy single the rest of your life message! Just try complaining a little bit about not being able to get married and see what you get! This just seems like complaining about the consequences of the churches lack of interest in what it takes to create families without ever getting right to the point.
Not much good getting married and having kids for the sake of it, if you’re going to be shit at both. Better to stay single and not ruin others lives.
@@petersanders2815 No one should ever be forced into marriage, if you’re good with the celibate life then stay that way. However there are far too many decent people being talked into believing that they can never be good enough for marriage and they will never be good at being lifelong singles.
God said "Be fruitful and multiply" many times. When did he change His mind?
@@petersanders2815 Traditionally, people grew into those roles.
Observations from sexual life and demography are key factors : more is lower and the easiness of finding/changing partners devaluate humanity. But science and rationalizations are as well important (at parity with the first two mentioned).
And, surely, on many levels, one can say :"that pill is a kill".
Amazing. The three qorld religiones, judaísmo, catholicism, and musslims appeared in the middle east, the others appeared in the far east. Apparently the only western contribution to religion is atheism and the subordination of religion to power and the marketing. I rather think that the west, whatever it means, has still a Long way to develope a native spiritual religion.
It is God's job to sharpen our vision of Him, personally and individually.
How does one “lose” God? I’ve lost my phone, my car keys…
Especially if he doesn’t exist.
@@July41776DedicatedtoTheProposi The eternal universe: poof. Abiogenesis: poof. Darwinism: pfffffttttt.
The explaining-away is fading away. All that is left is attitude and endless mindless distraction.
Lose your religion.
On a scale of 1-10, what represents education as 10 is PhD in the physical sciences.
If God, as described in the Bible, gave us a NEW HEART with LOVE for Him and a willingness to do His bidding, this trend would be non-existent.
@@NSOcarth
Jesus plainly said, "he who loves Me OBEYS Me". Maybe they weren't around long enough to truly know God better and grow to love him DEEPLY.
There are MANY factors and circumstances that can affect our decision making. It's not a simple matter.
Any relation to Ferdinand Eberstadt, PILGRIMS SOCIETY member?
but...also society has been let down by the religious establishment IMHO...the good news is that this issue is a 1st world issue.
🗣“I am not even an atheist so much as an antitheist; I not only maintain that all religions are versions of the same untruth! ― Christopher Hitchens
Our society snowballs downhill with a sense we have as individuals, no time for values.
@alienígena but one needs new values to replace old...and we have none except a vague tolerance of everything....won't do.
@alienígena do you have any idea what you are talking about
@alienígena just a shame self sacrifice, public service, and self control have also gone with those positive changes
@alienígena nice try.
@alienígena Why are you having tantrums on here Aline, if your life choices exemplary, why troll?
I found my spiritual home in Traditional Roman Catholicism, after a disastrous Protestant upbringing and 30 years of atheism. I wish I had found the Catholic faith sooner. It would have saved a lot of pain and confusion.
How about Anglo-Catholicism outside the Anglican Communion called the Anglican Continuum instead! I left Eastern Orthodoxy, then I left Roman Catholicism, and then Anglican Catholicism(nothing to do with Canterbury) instead!
And so we see that the fifth commandment is still in operation.
Oh! Exactly the lecture I have been looking for! I really wanted to understand how we, including myself, never got attached to the divine, apart from the sexual offenses and hypocrisy of actual church leaders and clear political bias!
How's that godlessness working out for you? Happy? Fulfilled? Or bitter?
*By _definition* " we" not only *includes* you, it *means* you and your immediate interlocutor, thus for al practical purposes when you use "we" you are saying *I*.
Is it not plain to you that if by" the divine" you seek to identify the idea of god, that idea is self-evidently man made or invented by men(human beings), some of whom l seem also to have invented a mister god, which has to be the ultimate fantasm.
God as a cognate of the general context in which beings find themselves, perfectly rational or reasonable, but *Mister* god, can only be a projection from or of some super me, me, me, or as the fantasy appears to run: " Not only am I made in the image of something, that image is of me, me, me, which clearly fits the definition of god as that which is more important to any given being than anything else at any given moment. Me, me, me , and its like and dislikes(emotional function) is clearly the god of most-if not all men(human beings, who unconsciously suppose that the context in which they find themselves is an image of the monster me, me, me, me-which is their god or that which is more important to them than anything else at any given moment, given that seemingly they not only suppose their mister god to have a beard and moustache exactly like theirs, but also a pen in his left vest pocket, and their likes and dislikes and petty judgements just as they do and elaborate versions of their purely subjective, relative an temporary likes and dislikes which they call "morals" and they seem to suppose that mister god also goes in for their famous and invented so-called " morals".
Seemingly mister god as an old Jew was dreamed up in Babylon and was the by-product of the wiseacrings of sundry supposedly learned beings kidnapped by a Person king as part of his pursuit of getting something for nothing, seemingly at a time when Persia was also known as the land of the finest or Aryans, which it is to this day.
It is a real puzzle; whence did men get the god idea if they did not come to it of their own motion? Some of them seem to suppose that that product of their psyche that they call religion has something to do with the mister god fantasy, when in reality it reality religion is almost exclusively concerned with that by-product of their emotional function that they dignify with the fancy word " morals" or occasionally what they call' " ethics", and seeking to impose their purely subjective relative and temporary likes and dislikes or morals/ethics on others they seek to justify and bolster their bullying by attributing their famous morals/ethics to a certain mister god who they suppose to be just as nasty petty judgmental and bullying as * they* are, which is true enough since their mister god is plainly a projection of their me, me, me, which is more important to them than anything else at any given moment, and is thus their god, which runs in tandem with their other god which one sage called "self-calming".
What will men*Not* do in the name of those two " gods"?
@@vhawk1951kl Happy Easter!
@@aclark903 Got any more meaningless drivel of which to unburden yourself?
My former United Methodist pastor blamed it on the Catholic sex scandals.
At least in the U.S., all religions, from Christianity to Judiasm to Hinduism to Islam, has seen some decline in service attendance and participation within a congregation.
Seeing priests, as well as other clergy, taking advantage of minors, has turned people off of organized religion.
Who needs a member of the clergy explaining the Torah, the Bible, the Koran, etc., while being a hypocrite, when I can watch something on You Tube or Google a theological question while supporting non-religious charities that also do good works.
I was a little surprised that the theses presented seemed to be grounded mainly upon science, including social science, rather than philosophical reflection.
The famous Nietzsche words from Thus Spoke Zarathustra don't refer only to the decline of belief in the Christian, or more broadly Abrahamic, deity, but also to the decline of classical metaphysics. It was Kant who seems to have landed decisive blows against metaphysics 100 years before Nietzsche, but the long dying wails of classical philosophy continued well into the 20th century. I think the discussion could have gone further by focussing on the decisive German figures concerning secularisation - Nietzsche, Weber and Heidegger. For my part, I cannot see there can be any doubt that the power and insight of science in relation to the world of matter and extension has eroded interest in and passion for classical teachings: including both classical philosophy and humanities, and also religious teachings.
I was happily surprised to hear your comments about both waning and waxing in religiosity over the last 150 years or so, but I still think there is an overall downward slide. Although I am not without hope, I think a turn for the good is more likely to arise from a major world crisis bigger and more deadly than, say, the COVID episode.
Apart from the above, your attention to the decline of the family, the decline of fertility and of mental health as causes looks to be correct, but I see these kinds of things as manifestations of the deterioration of the Zeitgeist as noted so poignantly by Nietzsche, Weber, Heidegger et al.
As the waning of the Victorian age saw the emergence of Darwinism and Marxism, faith foundations were shaken. The Bible was not something to be taken seriously any longer. Then, of course, the 20th century wars in "Christian" Europe.
Well written.
Blows Against The Empire.
15:21 Many Orthodox Jews are also extremely affluent. And they have huge families and stay religious in their own communities.
God Himself instituted three institutions : (1) Family; (2) Church (3) Government, if which family is the basic unit. Without families there is no basis for church or government.
5:00 speech starts
I notice a technique here. She will take a statistic (Like for instance, 57% of lapsed Catholic Italians cite “social issues” as their reason for leaving the Church. She then jumps to the conclusion that the one social issue upon which they disagree is sexuality.
That is not necessarily so. Many Canadians turned away from Catholicism because of the Church’s systematic sexual abuse of children over a period of decades. And it wasn’t just the perpetrators who were the problem; it was the Church fathers who enabled the criminal action.
Are we to assume that millennials are not seeing the irony of pastors in Crystal Cathedrals preaching the virtues of poverty?
Are we to assume that there was no correlation between the coercive dominance of the Church during the Duplessis era in Quebec and Quebec’s turning away from Catholicism in the Quiet Revolution?
Pride makes oneself to further away from God,
Humbleness takes oneself nearer to God
Now the Bible states "By his stripes ye are healed " The stripes that man gave him, become his which he uses to redeem unto his words "I Hurt & I Heal" to also know why "It pleased God to bruise him" cause the bruise (stripes) become a tool of redemption
Now there are two ways to God, (No other way) The way of Christ to which he says "My burden is light & my Yoke easy " The other way is through Lake of fire prepared by the angels in God , Whether the light or hard way, man calls it as Punishment, for God it is Correction , no matter how long it takes, Be it a million or billion (eternal) matters not for God for he has no time,
Cannot really blame people for leaving Christanity & becoming Secular for the preachers of the day are too busy engaged in "tickling itching ears " for their own popularity, Christ was not popular was he ? Otherwise they would not have crucified him , but unpopular especially amoung the Elites , who are the Phd's of the day, so was the case with his Apostles,
The final battle is on Biblically called Armageddon which is the continuation of the war of Josiah by the Christ against Egypt in the Spiritual plains of Meggido, The beliefs of Egypt The final battle for Marriage & Family through a Consecrated Russia ( the concentration of Spiritual Israel) against Sodom and Gender ideologles led by Protestant America, Biblically, Prophetically and Spiritually revealed as SODOM (self explanatory) & EGYPT (its underlying beliefs that killed Christ)
The result prophesied & decreed "The west think they are their own creators, Salvation (future) shall not come from the west but from Russia " Now the words "THEY THINK TO BE THEIR OWN CREATORS" is but exposing the serpent's Lie at Eden "YE BE AS GODS" Remember the Enmity put by God,
the christian institutional religions became exclusive of others who did not believe the way they did - even among themselves and that was not what Jesus was about losing the teachings of Jesus about God
The moral corruption of our society has been top down coercion [see the video, 'freemasonry and women's fashions' ] but allowed by a weak pulpit. Recent Catholic videos on assisted suicide decry the deed but still do not point out the end result of damnation.
What about Luther's two kingdoms?
@@NSOcarth Rome fell, but we have the city of God pax
Although Gods word is true few will read it or try to understand it for themselves, 2nd Timothy 4:3-4 for the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead to suit their own desires, will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4) they will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths, the path to heaven is narrow and few will find it, God know knows the future and it’s in the Bible only God can and does show us what’s happening and what’s coming, the church is infected bending its will to keep the coffers full, most church leaders don’t believe the 10 commandments nor do they follow them, so if they have no moral compass why would people want to pay to be lied to?
The West can't lose God. The West might forget God, but God is always here. God is not a mental construct. God is not created or uncreated by going or not going to church. Materialism can't "drive out God." Words matter.
speed to 1.25, she's a slow speaker.
This is more complaint than analyses of the changes.
Too, bad, because the crisis of meaning is real.
@@alienigena4518 true.
Solutions?
Their really are no gods which many of us realize and others are slow to understand.
Pride turns angels into devils !
22:52
I think Pope Benedict laid a finger on a baneful influence of greatest importance in his doctoral thesis in rejecting ‘Kantian conclusions’. Academia has grown around Kantian ideas to the extent of its being his intellectual manifestation in the workings of the planet - or the western section of it. There is inherent unreality in Kant’s metaphysic if the notable philosopher Bryan MaGee is accurate in his criticism (Schopenhauer) which notes a one hundred and eighty degree error in his metaphysic concerning the relation of concepts and percepts. In deriving the latter from the former (as innate) the whole world of real experience is both dismissed and down-graded. Moreover in Kant’s morality there is an appearance of his employing ‘sleight of mind’ in his activating principle of a ‘categorical imperative’ and which is a signature of his influence in the eponymous ‘neo-Kantian’ philosophical tradition through Hegel Marx down to the schools of Paris Frankfurt and now across the U.S. - categories have no seat in the divine as abstract constructs nor can anything of an abstract and nominal nature condition or impel an action as a necessary consequence of analytical accuracy. An adjective may not be put to a verb in simple grammatical terms. Technical accuracy in a moralistic scheme has no relation to Morality and ‘political correctness’ has no part in any general Ethical purview - but the phrase is pure Kant I believe albeit first deployed in 1967 by Mao Tsedong revealingly enough in connection with advice as to how to get on in the communist system.
I’d add that if Kantian experienceless brain-weakening as a cultural influence accounts for any part of ‘ideological feminism’ as opposed to the oft repeated ethical and culturally balancing occurrences of feminism over history - the specious political empowerment from it (nothing may really go forward while the sexes are not in cooperation) is a narcotic which one supposes may only end in the same way as with an individual addict - in a final choice for goodness when life and death present themselves just this side of extinction.
It is a comfort to know - from within the intellectually distraught and morally abased West that eastern orthodoxy is in Christian good health. It sometimes occurs to thought that the figure of St. James - the brother of Jesus - may have practical use for direction finding as simultaneously within ethical reach of Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, and Judaism.
@@NSOcarth
The contemporary problem is that ‘flower of evil’ (fleur du mal) resulting from the U.S. integrating nazism within its political process in both eastern and western hemispheres in 1945. See y/t Dr. Mark Felton’s recent presentation on US betrayal in the east; see Stephen Kinzer’s book ‘Poisoner in Chief’. And neither of those touches the political influence of the engineer paperclippers.
The causal sequence is baby boom, prosperity, fewer children, less church attendance. Church attendance will continue to decline without an increase in births.
They never had it to start with.
To save me watching this, is the jist education and the progress of critical thinking?
The Rapture isn’t mentioned.
Thus says the LORD: "Heaven is My throne,
"And earth is My footstool.
"Where is the house that you will build Me?
"And where is the place of My rest?
2 "For all those things My hand has made,
"And all those things exist," Says the LORD.
"But on this one will I look:
"On him who is poor and of a contrite spirit,
"And who trembles at My word.
3 "He who kills a bull is as if he slays a man;
"He who sacrifices a lamb, as if he breaks a dog's neck;
"He who offers a grain offering, as if he offers swine's blood;
"He who burns incense, as if he blesses an idol.
"Just as they have chosen their own ways,
"And their soul delights in their abominations,
4 "So will I choose their delusions,
"And bring their fears on them;
"Because, when I called, no one answered,
"When I spoke they did not hear;
"But they did evil before My eyes,
"And chose that in which I do not delight."
5 Hear the word of the LORD, You who tremble at His word:
"Your brethren who hated you,
"Who cast you out for My name's sake, said, 'Let the LORD be glorified,
" 'That we may see your joy.'
"But they shall be ashamed."
--Isaiah 66:1-5
LORD = YHVH ....His holy name has been replaced with titles. For a long long time. Sadly.
@@bosse641
God is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
Mankind can know Him because He took on human flesh and was given the name "Jesus." He was given this name because He is our Saviour from sin.
He died for our sins and rose from the dead.
@@danielfinn9460 ...."You alone, Father, are the one true God!" - Jesus Messiah (John 17:3) And the Apostles agreed with Jesus: "yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from Whom all things came and for Whom we live." (1 Corinthians 8:6a) And if you think God contradicts Himself, think again. And Jesus and the Apostles do not contradict their God either.
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort." (2 Corinthians 1:3) Amen.
You have been taught a Catholic doctrine, a doctrine that was not established until the First Council of Nicaea in 325AD. ....and even after that.
God help you.
@@bosse641
Hi John,
I agree with everything you wrote. I don't believe in either the Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox tradition. But, to the best of my knowledge, the Council of Nicea faithfully repeated the doctrines of Scripture.
If you think I'm in error, please show me where.
Lord's blessings,
Daniel
@alienígena .....what kind of pathetic comment is that then ?
To fellow travellers
Dan. 2:31 Thou, O king, sawest, and behold a great image. This great image, whose brightness was excellent, stood before thee; and the form thereof was terrible. This image's head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass, His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay. Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.
37 Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory. And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold. And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth. And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise. And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay. And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken. And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.
And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
Dan. 7:9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire. A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened. beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
_this Son of Man is Jesus_
Matt. 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
:18 But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.
You make a category mistake to hold Christian theism out as nothing more than an idea/belief/conviction/worldview! It is absolutely NOTHING of the sort!
Viz Rom 9:16, Tit 3:5-7, 2Tim 1:9-10, Jhn 1:13, Luk 18:26-27, Eph 2:8-9… and then look at Mat 7:21!
but they found the dog which "loves" them the way they want...
Just as God created man in his own image, the RC Church created our dear Mother Mary in the image of the great and Ancient Goddess Kali, the earthly Avatar of Lod Shiva's consort, Parvathy. God bless the RC Church.
Mary and Kali are not the same. One is Christian and the other one is Hindu.
5:00
How does a nation lose sOMething IT NEVER HAD?!!
This guy "Jesus/God" was a myth.
First written about - about 300-years after he was supposed to be on earth.
All these stories about what he actually said are heresy, handed down by word of mouth over 10-generations(!)
And the unknown authors who wrote these stories about him were undoubtedly exaggerating to sell their book!
How likely do you think these stories are true, and this is actually what this guy "Jesus/God" said?
Very very very unlikely eh? As in zero.
@@DennisMerwood-xk8wpthe US Founding Fathers understood and wrote that Capitalism and democracy could not avoid becoming evil without a deep morality based on judeo-Christian ethics in its entire populace.
The French Revolution was bloody in part due to its secular nation.
@@DennisMerwood-xk8wp
Fine. Why did the authors of His words put them in a mythical person 's mouth?
Why would not the Church Fathers, or Constantine claim them for themselves?
@@DennisMerwood-xk8wpand, did his followers die for their belief in his myth?
READ, LILA, BY ROBERT M PIRSIG. ON THE METAPHYSICS OF QUALITY
The truth of the matter is that gods have always been a concept but never a reality. Some have estimated that during the course of human history people have worshipped approximately 18K different gods, goddesses, objects, animals and even humans.
Not one of them has ever proved real, except in the minds of those who have chosen to believe in a particular one. People don't realize how powerful the mind is. You can so thoroughly indoctrinate yourself on an idea that it will become a reality to you notwithstanding that it is a falsehood!
However, it is duly noted that the notion of a god has affected the behavior of many, for good or bad. Can humans exist without the notion of a god? Probably not says history.
How can you lose something you never had in the first place
Agreed!
People think they are smart now, by believing nothing, CRAZY. Crazy, sad people.
"The Simpson's are also to blame in the West. The derogation of Fatherhood by mockery
...and gained tolerance.
Watching paint dry is more interesting than listening to this. Furthermore, she spends more time looking at her notes than having audience contact.
"the falsehood is bound to perish" as the Coran said.....the foundations go against reason that God created us with....so no matter how easy you make it for the people by doing away with the laws one after the other to keep them believing in it...... it's still unconvincing....so people leave
I know what happen to the western culture and who the corporates are but you can’t say it here 😞
Keep faith in America, believe me you don't want to see what happens in Europe, Europe is the only big piece of soil where faith is shredded.
She means "grown up"
It's because we let thech,ai,social media,and hollywood writers,directors,producers no longer think god,faith,humanity is relevant in society
Every time you see “Center” “Foundation” “Think Tank” you know these people are going to lie to you about everything.
huh?
Losing God means Losing your identity