My experiences in traditional publishing vs. self publishing: which is better?
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- čas přidán 3. 05. 2024
- From 2009-2016 I had five books published with traditional publishers and from 2016-present I've made my living as an indie author. Based on my experiences as well as conversations with author friends, I weigh the pros and cons of each!
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With the timing of your cats jumping up, I have now decided that they are called Bloomsbury and Hyperion
When I took writing in high school, my teacher got upset that all of my stories ended with cliff hangers. She loved what I wrote and wanted to know how they ended. She finally asked me why they all ended that way.
"Because I wrote it this morning and ran out of time before I had to come to class."
She wasn't sure if I was kidding or not. I wasn't. 😅
One benefit of traditional publishing that may be worth mentioning is the possibility of translation rights sales to foreign markets. That is something publishers and agents are well set up to do, but it is a lot more difficult for indie authors. Of course most traditionally published books do not get translated to other languages, so it it is far from a certain thing, but at least the possibility is there. And if you are not writing in English and want to reach a world wide audience, this might be the only way to do it.
Very very true. I don't know many indies with foreign sales, and some books really appeal outside the US. Even my books had sales to Spain and China. My first YA was also acquired for Scholastic book fairs, which you're definitely not getting as an indie either.
I've been very fortunate to have a group of writer friends from all over the world. We help each other with our stories and just chat about books and writing, friends really do help in the creative process for me
I made friends in indie publishing years ago. Some people I've known for going on 20 years. I don't think it would be as easy now, but that's because everyone seems so scattered. They all used to blog and be on Facebook and carry on long, complex conversations in comment sections.
That's what I was wondering...if it was just harder for everyone to make friends now? (Or at least for older people to make friends? Maybe if you're 25 now you instinctively know how to make friends on tiktok, but I sure don't, haha) Indie publishing itself has probably changed so much too.
@lidiyafoxgloveauthor I haven't even figured out how to make videos for Tik Tok, let alone how to make friends there. 😂
@@lidiyafoxgloveauthor I'm 26 and I think it's harder to make friends on social media right now. The online friends I do have are on old-school platforms like Dreamwidth (which is like livejournal) and forums (I loved avatar forum sites growing up, and I'm still on the ones that continue to exist)
Do you plan on making a video on what your editing process is for your self published books? I’m very curious about that.
Yes! More than one because there are so many different aspects of editing... I do talk about it in my video on "A month in my life" as well as in the video on finishing the Broken Queen, but I'll cover it more.
@@lidiyafoxgloveauthor I’ll be looking forward to it!
Great video 😊 As an indie author from Scandinavia who writes in English, I really feel the struggle of connecting with other writers. It's hard when we all work from our own caves/homes 😆
I’m from Germany, but also write in English, so I feel your struggle. It’s also very humbling, because you think you know the language, but then there are things you’re unsure about and have to go on a google rampage to find out what’s what.
@@sophiemichel8045 Brazilian writing in english here. the best and worst feeling ever is when somedays you feel that you have a native grasp on the language and suddenly on the next day you find yourself forgetting what a basic verb is
Croatian writing in English here! Not just working from our creative caves, but in different time zones as well. Most of the writing community I had found are of the USA, and it's a work on its own to join those writing sprints.
Oh yes I'm feeling this since I got on CZcams! It's attracted a much more international crowd and trying to plan chats and premieres at times that UK/EU people might also be able to attend can be a challenge.
hello in the same boat here in lithuania! europe feels very disconnected in terms of writing, and creatives in general.
Words written per hour vary depending on the project.
Shiny new fanfiction idea? 1-2k words per hour. Even faster if it's a spicy scene.
Boring article I've been paid to write and need to friggin get out? 0-1 words per hour.
(mostly kidding but also kinda not)
I mean, that totally checks
This is interesting. I have always wanted to be traditionally published but I've fallen in love with writing Choose Your Own Adventure styled stories which I don't believe would be picked up these days for traditionally publishing.
I loved those books growing up
I enjoy your honest, calm way of talking about things. You’re on the point, you don’t do a lot of flashy self promotion in your videos; I thank you very much for your insight. ❤
I queried a book two years ago and (expectable) nobody wanted it. I need to keep going on polishing it, for sure, but I still want to give traditional publishing a try - mainly because I don’t do social media and I haven’t got a clue about marketing. Besides, editors and cover designers are quite expensive if you have to pay for them yourself. But I also would be happy if there are just three people out there who read and love my books - and if no agent/trad publisher is interested, I will never find out - so maybe selfpublishing is the final step.
A lot of publishers will lean on you to do social media anyway, or supposedly they'll even factor it in when acquiring you sometimes (IF this is true, what a horror!), so there's no escaping it. But I did find it easier to manage when I was in trad pub. It felt like they just wanted you to have some respectable social media presence but didn't fuss too much over what and where, and then they'd have you do some email interviews with bloggers, etc. The one thing I don't know is if that has changed. Do they expect you to be on #BookTok now? I would definitely fail at that if so...
I designed my first cover for the Sorcerer's Concubine myself in Canva and it did quite well, so sometimes you can get away with not paying a designer, but if you go this route...DEFINITELY ask for feedback somewhere.
@@lidiyafoxgloveauthor thank you so much ❤️
So fascinating to hear your experience with both sides! Would love to see a video on how to set up a pen name and link that to amazon etc for self publishing :)
Thank you for all the helpful information!!!
Regarding the speed of writing: I learnt that Paul Auster was writing only half a page most days. He said that he writes because it’s the most difficult thing he could imagine.
There does seem to be a Glutton for Punishment school of writing!
I struggle with social media. I get so distracted by it and I overthink it a lot. I get so shy to strike up conversations because I feel like I’m bothering people.
I’ve always been able to push past my initial shyness in person because once you jump into a convo, typically I’ll get more used to chatting. But on social media it can feel to much like speaking out into a crowded room. Sure, a lot of folks might hear you but they all feel like you weren’t speaking to them directly, so no response in needed. I know because I am guilty on both sides!
I miss having community. I am need of friends that share my interests and have passion for the same things.
I have a similar problem as you. I feel the "best" way is connect is by posting a lot and letting people reach out (which i struggle with because i can't really write personable messages...and overthinking lol). The other is to continuously message or comment under posts of people you want to be close to.
But yeah being distracted by it and overthinking how i portray myself makes it so hard...
I feel this too. All of this. It felt a lot easier in the late 90s/early 2000s internet. But at that time, longer form content and non-monetized platforms were king. I don't think it's a coincidence. It's one reason I started the Discord, I'm really hoping that can facilitate better connections. I'm going to talk about this more in an upcoming video on friendships too!
@lidiyafoxgloveauthor all of my online friendships sprung from discord servers! So discord has it's merits for supporting connections that aren't necessarily with the purpose of sponsorship or personal branding.
THE LIVEJOURNAL DAYS. 😭
they were THE BEST, I miss them so much...no ads, no flashy videos, no paywalls...so pure and beautiful 😭
Another insightful video - thank you! I decided to become a writer when I first heard of self-publishing, back in 2012-13? Something like that. Traditional publishing was never an option for me, I find that time and energy needed to query would be better spent building my mailing list, marketing, or even writing the next book.
I'm yet to test this theory, though 😅 small children and full time job didn't mesh well with being a writer 😄
Well, your time can yet come! I don't know how anyone can write with small children. 2012 was probably around the time self pubbing started to become viable. I was put on a self publishing panel at a sff con around this time and it was very awkward as I knew nothing about it yet, but there were a lot of aspiring author men yelling about the end of gatekeepers in the audience. 😅
@@lidiyafoxgloveauthor haha, I remember those days of optimism. I guess my main regret for being this late to the party is the amount of advertising people have to do now to make their book visible. Many new authors may not know that pay-to-play Amazon and Facebook ads weren't as much of a thing pre, I wanna say, 2016-17? Many who started back then benefited from organic reach on social media and Amazon, provided they knew how to play the algorithm game. While there's so much more information about self-pub nowadays, it's also much more difficult to get attention - or that seems to be a consensus.
Meow!!
This is really interesting, thank you for sharing! Did you start an LLC at some point to work within?
No. I'm not sure that any of the benefits of LLCs would really matter to me. I don't have a whole lot of business expenses to track and I do my own taxes no problem and I think it's extremely unlikely that I would be sued. I know there are also some tax benefits but I've heard they aren't that beneficial until you're making 6 figures. I'm not really sure.
Thanks for the excellent and insightful video! I intended to try and be a Hybrid Author down the line, wanting to see if I could get a Literary Agent to work with me on the multiple ideas that I've got.
From what I'm getting out of the video and your experiences, it's better to go Indie and Self-Publishing if I want to learn marketing and have a long, multi-book series planned, while it's better to go Traditional Publishing if I have one or two book ideas. Am I correct? I have a few multi-book series planned out, but also a few one-shots that could be stretched out.
It definitely depends in part on your own personality, but that is a pretty reasonable takeaway, yes!
Could you make a video about your experience finding an agent? Thank you so much for your videos!
Yes, that is on the list, although it has changed tremendously. Might not be that pertinent to nowadays. I sent out a lot of queries on paper! That is almost unheard of now.
Love it! Do you have a designer you use for your covers? How do you get your cover art?
I have used MANY many different designers... There is a lot of turnover in the designer world, as well as people getting popular and overbooked or too expensive, and some that do certain styles better than others, so most prolific authors have worked with a lot of different designers.
I was looking online at you covers/titles on Amazon. Do you sell mostly on Amazon or where do you mainly sell your books? Where to start? I tend to read Gothic/Dark Academia. Suspense, Classics, but I want to give yours a whirl - I also like to fantasize a lot but I have literally never read a fantasy novel proper. I think I might be missing out.
Creative control is plenty enough reason to want to be self-pub. If you write something that blows up on Amazon, they'll call.
I sort of had experience in both, but I only got as far as the 'agent shopping around manuscript to editor' phase before I had this sinking feeling that trad was not for me (it's a long story). I'm happy in indie, though I've also made my share of mistakes with cover, marketing, etc... I like the control it gives me, yet I'm the first to admit that I'm absolutely hopeless when it comes to marketing in that I do the bare min. on a shoestring budget. That being said, indie has definitely propelled me to learn skills that I wouldn't have learned in trad. If I had stayed trad, the only thing I would know how to do would be to write but now I'm designing covers, editing videos, etc...
Having made all my writing friends during my query trenches/Pitch Wars/agency sisters era, I've only really made 1 indie writing friend and we write in completely different genres, which I think helps us get out of our genre bubble. I agree it can be a bit lonely so... Let's be friends!😉
Absolutely love that story about your NY hotel room adventures! 🤣
What kind of story compromises did you make in trad that you weren't happy with?
Do you like your trad covers?
Love the video! ❤
That is true, I think you pick up more skills and indie and that can be frustrating if you suck at them but also a big positive. Like, it's not that Canva is HARD to use but it would probably confuse my boss and I've definitely gotten much faster at using Canva. =P I spent a decent amount of time with it for book covers and promo images and then also used it for Instagram at work and then for CZcams. So sometimes you do learn things you can use for other jobs.
One compromise I remember being so frustrated with is how Dark Metropolis was set in a nightclub based on Weimar Berlin, so this seedy 1920s trouble-brewing atmosphere, and my editor made me take out ALL the smoking. Like, the old man was allowed to smoke a cigar I think but all the other smoking had to be removed. I get it, obviously she was thinking like, she wants the book to be able to be in schools or book fairs without resistance. But. It never went anywhere anyway and it just felt like it lost some serious atmosphere, some world-weariness that these teens were smoking and working at a club. I was okay with the fmc not smoking, but to have no one? It just felt so...sanitized. There were some other changes I didn't love in various books, but they are harder to explain.
...I had a complicated and traumatizing relationship with trad covers from the get go as they whitewashed my heroine on my debut novel, part of a number of books caught in the "coverfail" scandals of 2008-2011ish that ultimately helped usher in the push for more diversity in books, authors, and characters. A net positive result, but it was not fun for any author, that's for sure
Also, of course we can be friends! If I lived nearby, you would be the perfect estate sale friend I'll bet, but we'll have to settle for this 🤣
@@lidiyafoxgloveauthor I love all things Weimer Republic. It needs smoking. Everyone smoked like a chimney and honestly, when I was a kid, I never got tempted to smoke when I saw/read a character smoking. Honestly, publishers need to respect their young audiences intelligence!
I remember the "coverfail" scandals era. I'm so sorry you were caught up in that. I remember seeing your debut UK cover for Magic Under Glass though and that was my favorite one (the bell jar was dreamy!)
You mentioned in previous videos how you got the rights back for one of your books. Was that specific to the contract of that one book? Will you eventually get your rights back to all your trad pub works over time? Maybe you can add the smoking back!
@@lidiyafoxgloveauthor I'll be on the lookout for '80s/90s clothes while you scope out the Edwardian items!
@@teresachaotic.corner I know, it's so stupid, but I guess it could have missed some opportunities for having smoking in it. Personally I would rather reflect reality in art and teens will just have to learn to not make stupid decisions without my help I guess. Like, I wouldn't write a book where they're talking about how GREAT smoking is, but if the character shows up smoking, I don't want to censor them. I felt like it added to the character because it gave that impression that Thea had become this nightclub worker due to circumstance and it had corrupted her a bit, that she was growing up too fast. I do think about getting the rights back but frankly that book was the least me book I've ever written and I just don't really care about it anymore.
This was a great video. Always appreciate your direct, candid, and honest approach. Your appraisal of both situations or sides of the coin line up well with similar impressions I've seen of the two spaces. I've enjoyed the indie route. I write 1200 to 1500 words per morning session. It works for me. Book 2 comes out next year. Thanks again.
1200-1500 words is a very nice session!
The biggest hesitation I have for indie publishing is that I'm certain I'd end up spending $1 - 2,000 (probably even more) to get the book out only for it to simply sit there and never be seen or read...
by marketing, did you mean : My arch nemesis?
Marketing is Sauron...always watching and blighting the whole land
@@lidiyafoxgloveauthor what i hear you saying is that i need about 7 hot guys of varying heights to vanquish this foe. I will begin putting up the ISO immediately LOL
1:26 - CAT ATTACK!
what writing software do you use?
Pages. I'm super basic. I did just start using Campfire for world building though, and they also offer writing and publishing tools, so I might end up enjoying that, update to come!
You remind me of the cartoon character Daria Morgendorffer. I loved her and that Show and I wanr to think she grew up to be you. (She can be mean but she has to endure public school, so ...)
I love Daria!!
@@lidiyafoxgloveauthor I think I have to rewatch now. ;-)
Reading about an author who writes almost my same amount of words (600-1000) per hour is such a relief. I would love to know how many hours do you actually write a day. Sometimes I feel like I don't write enough, even if I reach my 1500 words per day. I would be really interested in knowing how many hours does a prolific writer like you writes each day and, also, if you write even during weekends
During my super productive period, yes, I wrote pretty much every day. Sometimes only 1-2 hours, occasionally as much as 6 hours. It gets harder to get a high word count the more I do, so there are diminishing returns.
I write about one word an hour.
It seems certain authors... a majority of them, never respond back. Anti-Social is KING and the world they live in is far superior than yours, attitude. But that is not my question, how do I get someone or anyone to just read my book to give me feed back? Family is pointless, other people I try to let read my stuff. How do I find someone to bata read my novels 📖?
I'm I good or not? The mystery remains.
Subreddits on writing are great places to get feedback on smaller bits of writing. People in those subreddits also often post invites to writing discords that you can join, where you can get even more feedback!
Find what they call "beta readers". Authors don't respond back and generally don't read unpublished authors because they've been accused in the past of plagiarising the books they've read by unscrupulous new writers who want to make a quick buck off the controversy. Other reasons: they don't have time; they have read A LOT of crap in the past by other new authors and don't want to subject themselves to that timewaster again; new writers can turn into really angry stalkers if they don't get what they want out of the author they've sent their work to, etc, etc. Most of it has nothing to do with a superior attitude, it's just self protection of their time, energy and safety. Which you (general you, not you specifically) btw, are not entitled to.
@@mariam2964 I have never tried to get other authors to read anything, just simple questions... don't try to make excuses for these type of people, who are anti social..when I have read hundred of books and have written 9 novels in 3yrs. Learned 130 plus acoustic guitar songs in 2yrs played like 44 gigs weekly. I'm not buying they are busy to answer questions. They make a choice to be @zzz holes. And you can't change people like that. I hear the same excuses you've mention about authors. The fact and truth is they are selfish and only if it benefits them, attitude. So I'm not buying none of this crap you've stated. Stop trying to justify a person actions, by nonsense bullcrap.
@mariam2964 isn't wrong, I often don't answer direct questions either. If you put yourself out there in any way, you can easily get a LOT of them and answering them takes away the writing time that is your livelihood. Sometimes you want to but are just overwhelmed. It really is much better to ask questions on forums and writing groups, which is how I learned. I never had like, a direct mentor or an author answer my emails or anything. I started out getting critiques on Critique Circle (which seems to still exist), because I didn't know anyone, then I started meeting people on specific forums.
@@lidiyafoxgloveauthor only question I had asked two people, is how do people find the author community on the platform.
There's a tone with certain author's these days. And those I will never have anything to do with. When you make yourself a public figure you have a responsibility. What's the saying with great power comes great responsibility. LOL.
A couple more to add to the "cons" part of traditional publishing. I readily admit that I am not an unbiased party, I'm very happy self publishing for the freedom, but still, these are issues authors face when presented with a trad pub contract: Dean Wesley Smith has an outstanding blog covering many of these issues for anyone who wants to learn more.
1) Trad publishers will hold onto your book for life. The contract typically reads that they hold the rights as long as the book "is in print," but with on-demand physical printing and ebooks, "in print" now means forever, so it's very, very difficult to get your rights back.
2) Trad publishers will try to grab all of your derivative media rights -- so if a Hollywood producer wants to do a TV show or movie, or a publisher wants to create a comic book or video game based on your books, or somebody wants to do action figures, T-shirts ... or someone wants to license the rights to do a spin-off series -- like for example, if Wizards of the Coast licensed out the right to third parties to do D&D novels (they don't do that now, just an example), the prospective liscensee must negotiate with the publisher, not the author. The publisher keeps the vast majority of the money from these deals. You also lose all creative control over the project and often give up the right to control derivative works, such as spin-off series. In fact, in their earnings reports, publishers trumpet their control of these intellectual properties and see their author's books as a major potential revenue source going forward.
3) With self-pub, you make a much higher percentage, anywhere from 35-70% of retail price. Traditional publishers pay authors ... much less.
4) Publishers are often grabbing audio book rights. Audio books are a huge supplemental revenue stream for authors these days, publishers want to get it before the authors do.
5) Effectively "non-compete" clauses -- authors are typically forbidden from publishing additional works (even unrelated ones) as part of publishing contracts. This is most common in multiple book contracts -- publishers are granted the right of first refusal (so they can accept or turn down your book) while at the same time forbidding the author from writing anything for anyone else or even self-publishing. They effectively limit and control the author's ability to make an income.
The benefits and downsides of self-publishing are identical -- it's up to you, the author, to do EVERYTHING, for better or worse. But, in my opinion, at least with self-publishing at least you are in control of your own fate.
These are generally things you should definitely be aware of before signing a contract, but they can often be mitigated. For 1, you can have a clause that they need to sell X number of books in a year or you can ask for a rights reversion. 2 is something to be aware of as well, but I didn't sell media rights for my second series and I got my rights back for my first book. 4 is true, yes, they do definitely want to retain audio rights, usually. 5 we always lessened in my contracts by putting in language like "the next novel set in the same world". In fact we did shop a middle grade proposal right after selling a YA to Hyperion and that was fine.
3 is definitely true. It barely matters because you will rarely earn out your advance. On the bright side, you do GET an advance even if the book doesn't sell. I've only had one self published book make me more money than my Hyperion advances, so SOMETIMES, this is a benefit. (Even though I feel terrible about it because the books flopped.)
As a reader this makes me so sad, I read an author because her/his writting, not because the publishing House (I don't even know the names) and now knowing that my favourite author recieve that small % of money 🤧😭
CZcams asked why the video was a good recommendation. One of the options it offered was 'novel'.
Well, if you insist, CZcams 😏
So weird hearing you call yourself “middle age” I thought you were in your late 20s-early 30s lol 🌹