BIG 40K News - Balance Dataslate in Two Weeks? OC0 Units Can't Do Actions, Points + Admech Update
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- čas přidán 27. 06. 2024
- A fairly big announcement from GW today - 40K's next season and balance update is coming soon and there's some BIG changes to units doing actions
Article here - www.warhammer-community.com/2...
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0:00 Intro
0:39 New 40K Season
4:00 Mission Deck Contents
4:59 New Actions Update
9:53 Deployments + Battle Line Mission Rules
14:34 Primary and Secondary Missions
16:28 Secret Missions
19:04 Closing Thoughts + Outro - Hry
Finally! Now GW will actually have to balance the Tyranids! I hope our win rate craters so the people in charge can see how badly the whole army was crutching on gamey scoring tactics.
I don't wanna be mean, especially cuz I see your optimism, but let's just say that I'm an admech player; it took them more than a year to actually think about doing something ....
If they need to sell some remaining stock you will get buffs for those boxes. So fingers crossed they find some nids somewhere in a warehouse to sell ;)
laughs in admech
Yeah I’m not hopeful. They’ll just do some random point changes with nothing rule or stat wise.
@@toybot99 Random point changes that requier you to buy another 300 points of units to make your army back up to where it was. Don't forget that little tidbit!
I guess they sold enough nurglings
lol. Lmao
They should drop them to 30 pts! Then they'll still be good for screening?
I am so glad I didn’t buy any but now sad cause I was gonna buy one so I play the great unclean one…
@@wolfgangstallionmusic5639 They're still good for protecting great unclean one, because of their aura. Plus, screening. I'll probably combine my two units of 3 into a big unit of 6 for turn 1 screening potential
@@Tehstampede just glued together 3 boxes yesterday... *curses*
Golden Banana players: Never thought I would be nerfed to death side by side with a space bug..
Nids players: What about a friend?
Golden Banana players: Aye...I could do that..
Agreed. We will perish together
Based Gimli and Legolas Reference
We will refrain from eating fruits for the foreseeable future.
Are custodes called bananas literally just because bananas are yellow? The imperial fists are the true bananas.
@@dragma907 they also have vaguely banana shaped helmets, so they have shape as well as almost colour.
Kinghts players: "I can shoot! I. CAN. FIGHT!"
Yeah, we happy.
just need our proper bondsman abilities back and im happy
@@Alais_NorizaXIV I expect they're gonna bring it back as a different detachment rule for us, So swap the 6+/5+ FNP for two-way bondsman. Makes me wonder what they'll do for the honored variant of the rule, perhaps when honored a knight can bondsman two armigers without enhancement or maybe the bondsman abilities are all improved somehow
As a Tyranid player who doesn't spam biovores to win (am I the last one?), this can only be a good thing. If the faction plummets without the artificial crutch of spore mines, then hopefully the larger issue of our pillow fisted offense will be addressed.
Let's go back to winning by tearing our enemies apart, not sneaking points while getting pummelled.
I just want a way to effectively break open tanks but I’m also okay with playing my Ynnari the remainder of 10th edition
I also don’t play a Biovore and I’m happy with the change, but damnnnn we’re going to need some buffs or some serious points drops lol
@@devotedtodestruction 3 tyrannofex's
@@warp5p1d3r6 you really trusting a weapon with 2D6 damage? Maybe if it was 4D3 there’s a conversation to be had but nah brother… let’s be real.
@@devotedtodestruction you will average mu dude, trust me.
Personally attacked by the Chilling Rain removal 😂
Without chilling rain, everyone needs the cards to play...
@@charleystewart8330you can find stuff online
@@charleystewart8330do they? If you ain’t playing in a tournament you can just use chilling rain still, and even if you can’t you can just make your own cards or use an app/random number generator.
Oh it's Tyranover for us nid players 💀
Well i guess its back to spam termagaunts again
As a Tyranids and Custodes player, I'm officially cooked
I strongly suspect this will genuinely be good for Tyranids in the long run, it means GW will have to actually balance their damage dealers rather than leaving them to rely on scoring gimmicks to limp into 45% wins. Guess we'll see if they compensate them in the points updates though
GW: "Spore Mines are now OC1"
@@auspextactics the problem is that with a printed codex they will most likely do so by horde-fying the army even more with lower points costs... more money for them
Admech Update! Thank the Omnissiah
Don't get high on the copium they've screwed us many times over
id wait until we see what they did ive a suspicion they nerfed the good stuff to make the bad look better typical gw
Im calling it now. The buff for nids are the battle line boosting in the missions. Nothing more
On the nose!
Because “we need the data to know it’s going to be bad”. They can’t foresee anything and need us to show them
Yes!!! This is the best Update for tyranids!
Finally we will suck so so hard that we will have a 40% winrate, and finally be buffed at the end of next year! 🙂🤝
*closes codex* Like that's ever gonna happen...
@@azrael2602 SOME! BODY!
Ahh yes, go from a 45% to like 20. Chef's kiss
Nids now can get some rules other than overlapping battleshock in several phases. Or maybe make the average LD across all top armies not 6.
GW will just lower costs for Biovore and some other units that deploy spore mines and not touch the other Nid units. (Not) looking forward to Nids getting 35% win rate.
Nids getting a super low win rate will reflect the actual efficiency of the faction without the unnatural prop up. I see this as a good thing because it will force them to lower points across the board. (Yes we need a reworked codex, which we will not get.)
@@skalgrimfellaxe5796 I mean sure we'll probably get another pts decrease down the line but I'm not looking forward to fielding a dogwater tier army for 3 whole months.
@@xkriegorbut that's just it. W are a dogwate tier army already. Our gameplay doesn't really change here, we just don't score as well, so if you enjoy the game is it is currently you will afterwards.
Hey it could be worse. Space marines have been sub 45% WR all edition and keep getting nerfs to their rules AND points.
Nids have been in a bad spot, but as my second army they've been the palette cleanser. Ugh. Now both of my armies are gonna be busting their balls to hit 40 :|
Probably better to fall now and bounce back later rather than limp along where the army currently is.
RIP Tyranids, but as someone pointed out here maybe that would incentivise GW to fix the faction as a whole
RIP. Have a feeling we won't see any major buffs for 'Nids any time soon
I have to wonder how many products will end up being called "Pariah Nexus" in the end. We've had two books already, now this, right? As a Necron player I'm still waiting for something fun in the story there.
Not to mention a short animated series
GOOD NEWS FOR BIG KNIGHTS!
Chaos Knights "We have big knights?"
Desecrator : "Ouch🥲"
I just now started playing I can already tell just by reading a lot of these knights seem entirely dependant on the bondsman ability. I just think it's weird the bondsman ability is so rigid? Like if I have a crusader it seems weird to me that my all ranged knight wants more ranged. I know the warden is popular because there's rarely a situation being harder to kill is a bad thing, but the rest seem to be more focused on filling a thematic idea than being usable. I don't know if that's the right way to look at it though.
@@The_Penguin_8964 There's also the Lancer who is ok, but yeah..
The pariah Nexus deck hitting the deck with the largest tyranid nerf ever implemented is rather on point with the lore.
Its tyranover.
Admechs main game plan was to advance and do actions. The rework really needs to take this into account.
I start to worry about the "rule changes" to Admech🤦🏻♂️ according to previous detechments, the so-call changes maybe "Hey Admech player, now you guys can have 1000 points of Knights in your army! Hooray!!"🤦🏻♂️
honestly, that may be the best case scenerio
@@gyro8332Without any serious changes that has been raised FOR YEARS？Nah, I don't think so🤦🏻♂️
But hey, that's G-dumb, everything will happen🤦🏻♂️
@@The_Penguin_8964well you guys would finally have a way to get 1000 points on the board for less than like $800
That would actually make me interested in admech?
Questor Mechanicus sounds fine to me, but IDK if I like that more in Imp Knights than admech. Admech's problem is as much datasheets as it is rules. They have a bazillion skirmishers and limited actual punch and durability IIRC.
Canoptek Court Necrons hearing that OC 0 units can’t do actions, “Good thing our scarabs are OC1, right cryptek?”
Cryptek: "I gotchu homie"
Remind me, Psycho's still REALLY cheap right? In lists without wraiths perhaps slapping that down with thralls?
Canoptek court doesn’t make Scarabs OC 1?
No Cryptekh gives a OC buff???
What are you on???
@@LinkiePup I knew I'd get called out on CC part but it's just you are more likely to have a cryptek near your scarabs.
Read the unit description of the Scarab unit. They are buffed to OC 1 if by a cryptek
@@LinkiePupif scarabs are within range of a cryptek model (6”) they get OC1
A battleline buff is gonna be crazy for the green tide
I'd refuse to play against. I like having fun
Orks need a nerf
Maybe kroot too.
GW was unbelievably stupid by removing the "actions" rule from the core rules when designing 10th. It was so much easier and smoother to just have it all written in one base rule. And now we've had all these months in confusing overly ambiguous chaos over still "doing" actions but not calling it that. I swear, GW has the worst rules writers in the industry, just plain stupid.
There's benefits and drawbacks if you ask me. I got really confused about "psychic actions" in the one game of 9th edition I played. But I did understand regular actions well enough.
GW absolutely hates learning their lesson. The same thing happened with indirect.
@@rileygoddard7181 What's the benefit in removing the term "action" but still requiring people to in effect DO actions and writing the same paragraph on every card instead of just once in the manual and app?
@@Giby86 it's that there were different types of actions in 9th that really confused me.
What happened to Nids being squishy but dangerous if they ever get too close? That was the whole point of the army wayyyyy back.
Now they are squishy and hit like a slight breeze. The win by sneaking which is absolutely antithetical to their lore.
Yes 10th edition is soulless 40k in many ways. Dunno why I'm still playing.
Im a sucker for cards. I keep thinking I'm saving money by not buying the books so they started spamming cards and now I'm broke again. Also lol. 69 cards
Nice
Nice
Nice
Nice
Nice
Knights being able to do actions is exciting
The rules change so fast now that buying a printed version of anything doesnt make sense at all
Oh I thought for a second Dark Angels index ability/the ability for certain units to retain some OC after a Battle Shock would do something after that OC needed to do Objectives change.
chilling rain being gone is a downer, I don't particularly care for spinning the big wheel of annoying restrictions before the game starts lol
Hopefully, this means Biovores can finally come down in points and the Tyranid monsters can get a damage buff in melee.
I’ve been doing just fine with Nids, but they do have internal balance issues and could use some help.
if only nids had tankshock
They're not going to update Nid stats. A lot of the early codices desperately need them but won't get it. -- Sincerely a Nid/SM player :(
Same, but my playgroup is very causal
@@SnowFoxWithAGasMask Most of my playgroup is, but a segment is more tourney-oriented than I am. Last local tourney I attended I went 3-0 for 2nd. They can definitely do well, but have a limited range of truly efficient options. Tfexes, Zoanthropes, Termagants, Hive Tyrants (in invasion fleet, especially). Maybe a dozen or so others.
@@user-ir6gb9xh7r Amen. It’s confined to Crusher Stampede, and even then not as good, and the detachment is borderline unplayable.
Watch, it'll be mostly more Points Drops for the Skittles and a change in Keywords for the Imperatives...
Honestly a good change. OC0 units doing actions was always weird for me.
That's a bad change. Most actions required you to own the objective anyway. They are doing this to push infantry box sales
@@spacemanx9595 Talking things like Investigate Signals.
@@spacemanx9595 No, they're doing it to eliminate the bogus "sure my mindeless and/or mischievous critters can totally do complicated things" mechanic that so many players were abusing.
@@JimH. these things being abused since there were little alternatives
GW: "We're removing the Force Organisation chart! No more mandatory units, other than a leader!"
Players: "Cool! No more troops - just load up on elites and tanks!"
GW: "..."
GW: "So anyway, -troops- Battleline units are gonna have special abilities so that there's no reason _not_ to take them..."
I prefer it really it isn’t required but it helps a bit if you do
Youre not forced to take battlelime they just get a minor buff if you do whats the issue? It's not like orks, marines and guard don't have a lot of battleline units
😂😂😂
The point of 'battleline' or 'troops' is to actually win the battle/do the mission whilst all your flashy damage dealers bang away at each other in the background.
I might go as far as specifying that ONLY Battleline units can score objectives/do actions.
If chaos space marines get points nerfs I’m going to be so pissed as necrons and admech had no changes for half a year
It might be early to avoid overlapping with the AoS release
The green tide list will love the battle line boosts. It's already a strong build as it is.
The new Action limits just outright kills AdMech.
Part of their game plan was go assualt and grab objectives with vanguard and have infiltrators snag objectives while in combat.
So I hope AdMech get some big changes to offset this abit.
its hits everyone. Most armies relied on assault to do actions.
I suspect it won't, since they also said that AdMechs rules have been rewritten. Im sure they took the new missions into consideration.
@stu_gibson that's what we said every edition...my ass still hurts from this editions shafting
Finall end to with OC0 shenanigans.
Also looking forward to balance and FAQ
Quick question about the battle line change: would that mean that sticky objectives are semi nerfed if you cant score as high when a battle line unit is no longer present on the objective?
Custodes are already down and now this season is all about battle line and Custodes only have guard as battle line. Think they need to make prosecutors battle line to help out with this alongside the points drops or buffs to detachment rules
They want you to use the detachment where they are battle line.
If you hate some rules, and your buddies also hate those rules, just ignore the dumb rules
Trouble is 10th is built to be played one way and one way only. It doesn't really work if you start going above or below recommended points, actually breaking rules gets sticky very quickly. It's just the worst casual edition.
@@banishedpest115precisely why 10th is a complete garbage edition
Underground 40K instead of commercial 40k, I like it. Fun before Rules *NEVER* Rules before Fun!
@@banishedpest115 points wise fair enough but I’m talking stupid rules. Like no actions even with assault. As long as you aren’t in a tournament and no one likes a specific rule then no reason to keep it if it runs your fun
On paper it's a cute idea.
In reality it will almost always end up with people trying to force your hand into changing the rules in a way that advantage them, so yeah, no, I'm good.
Just play the rules as written.
Tyranids are going to have an interesting time. Let's hope these aren't the only changes the hungry hungry hive mind gets this patch.
I SHOULD be excited by this, but I'm just wondering what unnecessary nerfs my marines and nids will have next.
I think those last two are really good if your opponent has imprisoned you for turn 2 and 3, and you have fought you way out and hit him hard but at the cost of prime pts, gives you the ability to pull back those lost points
Anvil will definitely like those options.
I do love the mission deck system, here's hoping it's here to stay for good
That was quick !
With battleshock preventing actions, sounds like a buff to battleshock heavy teams like chaos knights.
guess u havent used bs before its a very very limited happening
Battleshock already prevented actions before, it's just it seldom comes up.
@@josephpolk9660 Oh, well it seems actions will be more important so still a buff but thank you for the clarification.
Well, scarabs and nurglings must be running low in the shop
Incoming blue horrors
Battline units can perform an action while shooting but shoot at half unit strength to account for performing said action? Or just shoot with -1 or -2 models? Or...shoot with a -1 to hit for the unit?
And now the Sisters preview drops! Schedule a maintenance cycle for the servitors, they're running hot today.
On topic, most of this sounds fairly positive. I'm all for units being made to actually get on with fighting things rather than running off in random directions, and several of these changes seem to push that idea. I just hope that Battleline units don't get hit with point taxes just as they were starting to look useful again.
Honestly can't wait to try out the new deck.
And be nice for my nurglings to have a well earned rest lmao. My nurglings are shredded 💪🏻 they've been putting in so much work
I can't wait for future codices to have abilities that interact with actions while current codices don't get any similar options
I really regret making my admech army mech/vehicle heavy instead of battleline heavy
are you a millionaire? cuz you might need to be to field a battleline of admech, Tyranid swarms are cheaper... somehow.
@@TheSpectralFX No. Admech is expensive, but not because of their battleline (it's because of stuff like Doggos/Serberys, Birds/Pteraxii, and Chickens).
Skitarii are 55 dollars for 80 points (10 models, 1.45PPD), you won't need more than 4 boxes of them 90% of the time, maybe if you want to run more rangers or vanguard you might get more, but they're also slapped in every ad mech value box so it doesn't matter as much. Plus if the Skitarii get buffed in the dataslate, they'll prolly go up in points (Vanguard were like 100pts at the start of 10th and Rangers were 125pts at the start of 10th)
Termagants/Gargoyles are 45 dollars for 60/85 points (10 models, 1.33/1.88PPD) and Hormagaunts are 50 dollars for 65 points (10 models, 1.3PPD). From what I understand outside of gargoyles battleline units aren't used much currently competitively but if they buff the battleline units in some way, shape or form other than rules ways you're gonna need alot of boxes.
Rip my Ripper Swarms and biovores ☠
Definitely a sad day for the Rippers. Hero to zero.
Did chaos space marine spawn just get good?
I am excited for the changes, I also like that they're trying to get more battleline involved. This was an area that I felt needed some help, as players had no real incentive to bring a battline unit (With exception of imperial and choas knights) I have played against many who simply excluded them altogether in favour of a stronger monster and or tank
People have no incentive to run battleline because they are bad for some armies. Why would you ever both find the points and have a plan to run a second unit of custodes guard?
Whats does that mean for Death Company?
Still kind of helps the lancer and gallant since both of those still have ranged weapons.
Really hoping they don’t mess with thousand sons points much. I just found a list I like and im curious to see how it does in the next mission pack
They're buffling battleline and ksons are basically just a delivery vehicle for rubric marines, so I imagine they'll do decent.
They did the Harriden dirty!!! How does a giant alien dragon not have the presence to CLAIM a measly objective!?
Reminder Prosecutors lost the Battleline keyword in the codex update.
I hope nids get a big points cut honestly. Unlike with admech it's proper to be swarming the board with bugs. Feels weird that my unending swarm list has 5 less units then my buddies tau list
Bye bye nurgling allies in DG
My. Biggest worry is actually managing to get them.
Whoever decided that there will be 69 cards total is a legend
The nid buff is that gargoyles go up only by five points this update.
Im pretty excited about this. Battleline being relevant is always more fun.
My Cyclops Demolition Vehicles with teleport homers in the back are big sad.
Anyone else hoping they "fix" admech by cutting points in half?
I want to be able to field my entire collection. And still be less than 2k.
So what does this mean for drukhari, if anything?
The secret missions feel like they missed the mark again. If you are in a position to be able to score them, you could have scored primaries anyway... especially the "control 3 objectives" one. So the cap of 20 points on primary for taking a secret mission makes it a poor choice to ever take one. They need to make it less punishing to take, or no one will ever choose them.
But at least the game isn't decided on a single dice roll, like gambits. There's actual gameplay decisions involved now.
10 man heavy intercessors with a biologis is gonna be a unit now
Elder gonna be interesting
I’m currently working on a full pure wolf army in space wolves, RIP the action takers and bulk of my army.
I can hear Mordian Glory selling his Cyclops all the way from this side of the internet.
I think having another deck is great! More ways to play equals more fun!
1 week pre-order or 2? Should be out 15th if one week.
Points cost wont be enough nids side.
Tyrants (including Swarmy) need to have outright Ctan level defense and close to their damage, warriors should be battleline and with prime should at least mathematically tie with equivalent amount of marine terminators instead of lose horrendously or merely lose mostly if they got a charge in a 1v1.
Bit niche but Champions of Russ detachment, get wolves +1 OC and suddenly they can do actions again?
Chaos Daemons are getting a buff!!! I can see some armies building for those secret missions. Plus, battle shock has become better. That means people will try to battle shock us more often, which is good if we are in our shadows. Looking like nurgle units have become a little better. Add in some Khorne for those secret missions. A dash of Slaanesh since we cannot advance and do actions. I personally dislike Tzeentch, but I guess his flamers are the new nurglings.
"Balancing" means "nerfing tyranids until you can't use them" in GW language
thankfully i've not used any OC0 tyranids units in my lists - and having fun with without them
As a black templar player i see pariah nexus as a win
As a CSM player I'm sort of dreading new points changes so soon (barely gotten to test the new codex yet). After all, we have a detachment that has dared get a 53% win-rate atm. :-P Nurgling not being able to do actions will probably screw us pretty hard overall, but at least it's going to be a relief not having to bother about that damned spore mine as much any longer.
amusing that the Chaos Spawn became even more useless though tbh. :-P or maybe not... turning units into OC 0 might have a few new use-cases given the right situations.
That's huge for Knights. So many games I'd like to be able to do an objective, but having your 350+ point model have to do nothing for a turn is too painful.
Oooh good, more rules to buy!!
Titanic can shoot and score? Mayb3 big knights are playable again!
I played my admech in a local beer league and went 4 wins to 1 loss. Never had to change my list as well. There are some gaps in the army for sure but they have some gems.
As a Legio Cybernetica user, I freaking hate GW destroy us🙄🤦🏻♂️
The hive mind will adapt and overcome.
Damn rip nids
its Tyranover.
@@TheSpectralFX 😭
Gw probably pushing everything forward to make sales before the financial year
Goodnight Custodes
I hope they give some point updates to SM. Would love to actually Use Roboute without a 350 point hit. The grand strategist loses games for you now just on that alone.
As a 'Nid player, I actually rejoiced at this.
I did just finish printing a biovore, but thankfully I can start using it for fun instead of autoinclude biomine bullshittery soon!
I know everyone is focused on the nids with the Oc 0 change for actions (and I understand why) but I am curious if we think this will hit chaos knights seeing as they loved taking nurglings so much
big mechs can do actions and shoot now. this will hurt the war dog spam i think. blue horrors are an option but cost more and have 10 models.
@@jeremiegartner464 true but chaos knights typically only have like 1 big knight maybe 2 and they typically want to be in combat unlike their imperial counter parts
@@jonpeacock5580 I'm currently building my first army which is Chaos Knights, so I too am wondering abut this.
@@Antarctican_
I personally suggest to use Tyrant+Desecrator, great fire support and well defends (Tyrant can block DS)👍🏻
Probably didn't want people to be distracted from the release of 4e aos.
Hello! Im a New player and I have a question: what are considered actions? Is like move, shoot or charger an action? Does that mean that a battleshock unit basically is stuned for the rest of the turn? Or is something else?
I’m also new, but as I know it.. “actions” was a rule in 9E and secondary missions would task players to do actions on their turn with a Unit instead of shooting. In 10E “actions” wasn’t a specified rule so when secondary missions cards ask you to perform them they had all the specifications on the cards. The rule only being on the card made it not generic enough and corner cases were more prevalent. Overall more confusing. But an “action” was a specified obvjective on a secondary mission that would sacrifice your shooting for the unit performing the action. I believe thats all correct but I’m pretty new too but I hope it helps!
The secret missions do seem like they're for a player who's spent the game destroying the opposing army but not bothered to score primary. So a player could go from 0 to 40 primary vp in 2 turns potentially, which would otherwise outpace most primaries on their own which are limited to 15 a turn, I think?
I’m not mad at that concept? Right now it’s viable to “win” the game by move blocking the enemy in their deployment zone for three rounds even if you end up with no units at the end of the game. I don’t think that’s a great or fun game design.
This is good in my opinion, it should be viable to concentrate on destroying an opposing force in a wargame.
@@therocon5343 Good point, particularly for a warhammer game. Just think these secret missions seem like something players will play towards from the start rather than a last ditch rubber band mechanic. (not a bad thing, just not how they're being sold)
Wonder of dark angel will get any tweaks. Probably not, huh?
So, what if a group of fenresian wolves is lead by a Canis Wolfborn? He has OC 2. That gives the whole unit OC. Can this unit then do actions?
From the sounds of it, yes.
Time for dread talons to do work