If - What Did I Say About The Box, Jack? (1970)
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- čas přidán 10. 09. 2024
- If - What Did I Say About The Box, Jack? (1970) from the album "If 1" (1970)
If was Great Britain's contribution to the jazz-rock movement begun and popularized in the late '60s/early '70s by Blood, Sweat & Tears and Chicago. Formed in 1969 by Melody Maker jazz poll winners Dave Quincy, Dick Morrissey, and Terry Smith, the band never found popular success in the United States. However, If produced several albums noteworthy for placing jazz players in a pop/rock band context and producing a true fusion of the two genres without diluting the players' improvisational skills. Unlike most of their horn-band contemporaries, If had no brass players in the band, relying solely on the saxophones of Dick Morrissey and the flute and saxophones of Dave Quincy. But what really gave If its unique sound were the vocals of J.W. Hodgkinson and the guitar of Terry Smith. Hodgkinson's vocal timbre was unusual -- smooth, flexible, and strong in the high end, sounding like no other vocalist. Smith's trebly guitar sound was also unique, combining a rocker's use of sustain with the jazz fluency of Wes Montgomery and Django Reinhardt. The original incarnation of If produced five excellent albums between 1970 and 1972, but these albums failed to find an audience. Morrissey soldiered on with the If name for two more albums with a totally different lineup and a more generic rock-type sound, but these, too, went nowhere. Drummer Dennis Elliott was later a member of the platinum-selling rock band Foreigner. (allmusic)
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If is Englands answer to Chicago or the much less proggy Blood Sweat & Tears, and with no small surprise the UK answer approaches Chicagos quality and easily surpasses BS&T. But comparing If to Chicago is at best unsatisfactory and at worst is misleading: not more instrumental than Chicago (and no trumpet or trombone), If is also less of a straight brass rock outfit, and more of a real jazz rock group, often coming close to Colosseum or Brian Augers Oblivion Express, than the pure mushy garbage RnB of BS&T or Electric Flag. The septet is based around wind players Dave Quincy and Dick Morrissey, the main songwriters. The original line-up on this album will remain unchanged much like their US alter-ego Chicago for quite a while.
Starting out on the absolutely delightful Reaching Out On All Sides (also issued as a single), the group shows a real knack for writing inventive jazzy tunes that have a rock edge, while making it interesting for demanding music fans. All Sides comes with a good searing guitar solo, underlined by Mealings organ, then the saxes come in a very Heckstallian fashion. Hodgkinsons voice is fairly close to Chicagos singer. The lengthy instrumental About The Box is probably the A-sides highlight, with Morrisseys flute drawing a long solo before the two saxes cut away in a Heckstall manner, allowing for Smiths guitar to wallow much like Clempsons did. This second track is probably the most Colosseum-like of the album. Rounding off the first side is the 7-mins What Can A Friend Say, which boasts a very brassy rhythmn blues, in this case reminiscent of Chicago or The Flock, but boasting yet another stellar electric guitar.
The flipside is made of four shorter tracks, with the rapid 100 mph soul number Woman, Can You See? track, where the repeating sax riffs and chorus and a sizzling solo of the same instrument. Conscious Mind did not steal its name, as it is easily the easiest track on the album, this being the attempt at mass exposure via the single. Best forgotten if you ask me. Dockland is a strange and slow (almost doomy) track, which seem to emphasize dark atmospheres, but Smiths guitar is again the main solo instrument, again a bit reminiscent of Hisemans tribe. The closing Promised Land is an upbeat funky track that contains plenty of intricate arrangements, but cannot escape a pop feel, but positively said. The bonus tracks are no added value as they are the single version of two album tracks, therefore only adding a déjà-entendu feel.
Recently, Repertoire records just re-issued the first two in a mini-lp format, and I only wish theyd get the license to do the same with the next two, but whether this is likely is difficult to say since the first two were issued on Island records, while the next two were on United Artists. In either case, this first album is an absolute must for those wanting to find the perfect link between brass-rock (since If did not have brass instrument proper, but woodwind instruments) and jazz-rock.(ProgArchives)
My dad, Lew Futterman, managed If and produced all of their albums. I grew up running tape in the studio for them in the UK, NYC and Ithaca, NY. Great fun to be around. Dick Morrissey was one of the loveliest guys ever. While they never broke through in the USA, the first album was reasonably successful, selling over 300k, and the second sold 200k. They also did fairly well on the road. I haven't listened to If in 30 years or more, so this really brings me back. Pleased to hear that the first album holds up almost 50 years after it was made.
They were great saw them live once. Should have been bigger. I had the second 2 and IF3(still have them)
This is one of the best lost treasures of the 1970s. Blown away by it then, blown away by it still.
This is everything I ever could have wanted from a Jazz/Rock group
Terry Smith - man, what a player! I still have every IF album and CD in my collection. Everytime I listen to their music, I realize just how lucky and grateful I was, and still am, that I was introduced to them all those years ago. Music like this will never age or die.
I saw them in concert in Flint in 1971. They hit the stage Playing, no tuning up, mike checks,just bam! And they played straight through for about an hour, one song leading into the next. One of the best concerts I have ever seen. Much better than Chicago, whom I saw two years later. Blood Sweat and Tears, with Larry Willis on piano, however, was their equal.
Man, does this bring back memories! Had this album .....hate getting old....LOL
I am so lucky to have this album!!
Oh man; your last statement was just what I thought all the time since I was lucky to know a young lady in my local record store who introduced me to IF and kept me informed about everything new that was issued. This is one of the tunes I'd like to be played on my funeral.
Back in those days musicians could really play.
THX Garraty IF klled me again (never forgeting the tapes Orwo ..first time Ive got it...) today I am a proud owner of all LP ....from IF
I bought this album when I first heard this song they were right there with electric flag and Blood Sweat and Tears
Stands the test of time. Aces it actually. What great players, caught them, opening for Tull i think if my memory can be trusted. 10/31/1954.
This is ABSOLUTELY fantastic. I was recently introduced to this, and I was floored by it!
Unique and marvelous sound! I love this band! Fantastic musicians!
Awesome band. Extreme talent here.
Other masterpiece of 70', unforgettable. Thank you
Thank you...amazing band!!!! Have a good day!!!
Wonderful stuff. It was one of the first albums I bought (If one). 'Docklands' is a beautiful track, which also appealed to my Dad who built and sailed his own boats. I also liked Chicago Transit Authority and Kokomo back then. Still do!
Man, I grew up with this album! Great stuff, thanks for posting.
wow, so good. funky and excellent!
IF:
This is actually not "jazz rock," although, at the time, with the inevitable comparisons to BS&T (who I loved), CTA/Chicago (who I did not), and Ten Wheel Drive (which, criminally, were never as well known as they should have been), there was no other category to put them in...
...but about four years later, in 1974, ROLLING STONE did an article about "the New Jazz Rock," discussing the music of Return to Forever, Herbie Hancock, Weather Report, etc. without referring to it as "fusion," as that term had yet to be applied to it...
...and here it is, fully formed.
A jazz-waltz head, with a very Ian Anderson-ish flute solo, an extended Santana-esque Latin Rock jam, and back to the head.
This stuff was ahead of its time.
I personally thought Dennis Elliott's talent shines more here than when he was with Foreigner
And here we are. LOVE.
@kurtmiezi I was just listening to IF again the other night (I feature them very regularly on my radio show): they had to be the UK's best ever jazz/rock outfit. Keef Hartley Band, Alan Bown, Walrus, Blodwyn Pig, Heaven, Delivery, etc etc, were all fantastic, but IF just had a special magic that set them apart from the others.
mistero...come mai non hanno avuto successo? eppure sono bravi!
What a great song, what a great band !
Too bad the original formation doesn't exist anymore ( I think two of theoriginal line up passed away ). Fortunately the music still lives.
I had this on vinyl, and sometimes, decades later, the part from 3:05 on still pops up in my musical memory. Amazing!
Still sounds good even now (late Dec.2015). Having been to the last two Canary Wharf Jazz festivals IF could easily hold their own against ANY artists there and not sound dated in the least. The excellent Filthy Six are a bit reminiscent of IF lite. Terry Smiths guitar was similar to Terry Kaths in Chicago earliest daze. Both clear fluid players with excellent tone. The icing on the IF cake was JW Hodgkinsons singing.
+Mark Sieczko I really struggle to find similar bands, aside from Colosseum and Atomic Rooster (both of which contained Chris Farlowe), there doesn't seem to be many Jazz/Jam hard rock bands like IF. You either start at the hardcore jazz-fusion end of the spectrum, or end up back at Cream. Any recommendations for similar artists to IF?!
Have´nt heard this track since it was quite new. Remenber it so well vhen i´m hearing it. Great. Thamk You.
I definitely agree that any comparison between If and Chicago is misleading.
Chicago = pop-rock with a few hints of jazz.
If = true jazz with a few hints of rock
Anyway I'm always astonished when I listen to the music of THOSE years (compared to nowadays...)
Hatte ich gar nicht mehr auf dem Schirm 🎼🎵🎶🎵🎶❤
Wonderful. These guys were so far out there.
@plastiqueadapte Thanks for that. Will always continue to feature them on my show. They were just too good to not share with people!
Quite Incredible!!!
@Leonecon I salute you for featuring IF on your radio show. IF was and still is better than a lot of bands which had/has more airwaves. Go figure ! ..
So true. Great band
so good.
great shroom tune from my HIGH school daze, microdot too,mellowed u right out,should have played live more in the states. played here in Chi. , Ten Years After , Quatermass ,and If, missed it, too young to drive then. Shit!
Love this!
FOUR extraordinary Jazz Rock albums are: IF; HEAVEN; CHICAGO TRANSIT AUTHORITY and AFFINITY.
For some reason the music almost reminds me of The Keef Hartley Band
Still have my LP reordered on cd!
gran banda,diversidad de melodias y ritmos en especial los vientos. muy poco difundida
Banda increible !!!!
@koscina5 Absolutely! There wasn't a weak player in the band. Quincy and Morrissey made a fantastic team. Such a pity Morrissey died a while back. There is a new live If album called "Fibonacci's Number" on Repertoire. Brilliant!!
If are not jazz rock. They are progressive rock with strong jazz and blues leanings. I would file them more with a band like Yes if Yes had brass than brass rockers like BS&T and Chicago. They also are one of the most criminally underrated bands in the world. I discovered them when I was 14 years old with a beat up US pressing of IF 2 which my therapist's husband had put in a box of records that were going to be taken out with the garbage!!! Changed my life forever and Zappa's Lumpy Gravy was in there too. Back in 1990. Over half my life ago. Scary!
IF bola britská jazz rocková skupina, ktorá nemala s art rockovou skupinou niečo spoločné....v UK sa žanrovo zaradila ku skupinám ako Graham Bond Organization, C.C.S. alebo Colosseum, ktorého bývalý člen Greenslade bol členom skupiny IF po odchode Mealinga v roku 1972.Monžno konštatovať, že mnohé skladby mali blues rockový charakter. Skupina sa tvorbou viac prikláňala k Miles Davisovi.a naviac ju založili jazzoví hudobníci Morrissey a Smith, kým skupiny Chicago a Blood Sweat and Tears vytvorili rockový hudobníci. Mnoho ľudí nerozlišuje, že pod pojem jazz rock sú zaradené aj rockové skupiny, ktoré používali v tvorbe jazzové improvizácie ako Flock, a jazzové skupiny uplatňujúce v tvorbe prvky rocku ako Weather Report alebo Herbie Hancock.
Was just too young (and too poor) for these, although I had a track on an Island sampler I bought second hand for ten bob which I really liked. This is great too, can you still get their albums?
Hey, how about uploading the full album?
GREAT TRACK. Truth is indeed stranger than fiction: Drummer Dennis Elliott went on to join Foreigner. Then his replacement Cliff Davies left to join Ted Nugent!
That whole IF line up joined Nugent
If were more of a jazz/prog-rock outfit than Chicago and BS&T.
Other greats
Dreams
The Flock
Soft Machine
Mahavishnu Orchestra
Gentle Giant
Actually, they remind me of Mahavishnu Orchestra.
my first listen..I like it,just as is, but I don't like fusion..oh well
easy acid in conoba