Michi Mochievee's previous employer screwed up her taxes
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- čas přidán 28. 04. 2024
- Original stream: / 2132522101
I admit I'm not a regular viewer of Michi, but given the newsworthiness of this and the fact that nobody else seems to have clipped it yet, I stayed up way too late to chop this up and get it published.
Please use grace and common sense when discussing this issue in the comments and elsewhere.
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Black. Company. Holy shit. They took money out of her paycheck for their own taxes? Actually fucking insane
Remember that it is the SAME BLACK COMPANY that caused another VShojo Talent to owe over 300k in taxes before Ironmouse and Gunrun came in clutch to help sort these out, while said VTuber almost had to quit Vtubing altogether!?
SAME CASE DIFFERENT PLACE actually.
Here's a clue: Said Talent has qualified for a CZcams GOLD Play Button that was forever unreachable in his previous job.
@@TsurugiMatsudanot 30k, 300k
@@ducanhnguyen4242 Oops, amended.
They class their streamers as Independent Contractors, so the Talent is on the hook for BOTH the "employer" AND "employee" portion of the taxes.
That sounds vaugly illegal. Is that illegal?
This paints the ID/JP Merger in an entirely different light. If the Indonesian Government found out they were embezzling their Talent's pay under false pretenses, they'd at least have to reimburse them and pay fines. They probably didn't want to bother, and so "closed" the company by merging the branch into the JP branch, thus freeing them from legal responsibility in Indonesia. Holy shit, that's just international fraud at that point. I cannot believe the depths these people stoop to.
Just keep in mind, this could have been ID management or even a single accountant acting on their own, outside company policy, whatever. The onus of the blame is still on Nijisanji Core/Holding, as it would be their job to audit their internal finances to prevent embezzelment or even incompetence, if we want to be so kind as to call it that. They obivously failed to do this bare minimum.
@@acceptablecasualty5319 as a tax-paying ID citizen that also was around when ID management was good, nay. ID back then was involved in too many big events (Comifuro, AFAID, etc) with too many big partners to not do stuff like taxes properly. And Kuro (which wasn't affiliated with the ID branch in any way) have the exact same problem.
This is clearly JP management purposely screwing things up for their own benefit.
Assuming the ID government gives a shit abt their people lmao
@@diostone6975 they do give a shit about their taxes, if you or your employer ever reported yours even once in your life. In ID, if you never ever want to pay taxes, then never ever have your income reported by anyone. Not even your banks...which would be difficult, since most banks do.
@@TheRibbonRed Well, then you know more than me.
So to summarize, she thought she was having federal tax withholdings (or Indonesian equivalent) taken from her pay, something totally normal. But it turned out the company wasn't doing that and she was left on the hook with two years worth of unpaid income taxes.
Well from what I learned from Nux Taku's vids on Nijisanji is that they intentionally make their contracts vague so they can pull shit like this.
Oh no wonder why Kuro had 300,000 dollars worth of unpaid taxes 💀 god this company is evil
@@jubilee_joy Mysta's situation was a bit different - AFAIK as soon as he got enough money he bought his mom some kind of real estate, probably a house. Since they were always ULTRA poor and it was one of his mom's lifelong dreams.
And his company provided zero tax consultations and support when "british IRS" came for him. He himself also had zero experience dealing with taxes since all his childhood their family was so poor they didn't have to pay any taxes.
This is when Ironmouse and Gunrun helped him.
@@syncdom LM have gone over the bs, the tldr is that over 70% of nijis bs legal work, would be automatically thrown out of any wester country's court, and over half would be thrown out of japans courts^^
@@syncdom You can go to Legal Mindset and see the ACTUAL contract blank. The Lawyer Andrew goes over the WHole thing top to bottom and it's worse than anything Nux has said
So, they took money out of her account plus a fee to pay the COMPANY's taxes?
This company really has to be investigated. This is nuts.
ID branch was likely terminated in such a rush for this reason - before they were dragged into local courts.
The problem is that who is going to investigated them? Japan law already a mess in these type of work.
@AC-ut3nk I'll tell you more. Under Japanese law, companies with a market cap of 500mil yen, or more, or 20bil, or more, in liabilities fall under large companies and have to be audited annually.
Niji has a market cap of 138bil yen, so it's legally obligated to be audited.
Yet we still see things like that come up. This probably means that they are in cahoots with their auditor, which, if true, will result in MASSIVE lawsuits thrown against both. Or, at least, should.
I couldn't find anything on who they're being audited by, which is weird. It is also weird how I wasn't able to find any audit reports, which are supposed to be public information. Maybe they're not being audited to begin with? In which case, how in the world Japanese government even allows such egregious behavior? That would also be illegal.
All this looks plain suspicious.
Even jp Government on niji side as far I know@@AC-ut3nk
@@MrMisticZ From what I heard, there is severe lag in the Japan bureaucracy rn, and the Japanese government is beleaguered rn dealing with multiple problems, such as attempting to normalise the military without falling too much into US dependency, salvaging a massively stagnating economy (Yen is falling to record lows) and a corruption scandal within the ruling party involving a former assassinated PM's faction. The ruling party also recently lost elections in 2 supposed strongholds, raising questions about the immediate future of Japanese politics.
yeah that corruption scandal not only involved accepting bribes/gifts etc without declaration, it also looks like there is some signs of certain lawmakers and companies being in cahoots to skirt past certain regulations. I will not be surprised if Nijisanji is one of the main culprits, considering when they got popular and who was the PM at that time...
So Nijisanji almost got her arrested?!! Fuck that company bro...
on top of wage theft, that 10% the deducted went into their pocket since it never went to her tax.
Also almost got her financially ruined, and as other commenters noted definitely got her double-taxed if they withheld 10% jp income tax and she still had to pay indo income tax. Even the US's foreign income nonsense doesn't double-tax you (at least not on the whole amount of your income, you do get taxed above 126500 plus housing pro-rated to presence outside of the US). Not to mention the mental health impact from the stress, and both physical and mental health from not being able to go see docs.
@@Bob-nc5hz Isn't that like illegal? I'm no expert but why is she paying japanese taxes?
@@ozarazil5745 I'm not sure how taxes work in Indonesia or Japan work. If there was something in that contract that stated something like "defend your employer against any and all liabilities to the full extent of the law."
She signed that contract meaning she entered a contract together with that employer. Even if the contract was null and void, she still suffered under the tax laws. She will still have to pay for her employer's cost, and wouldn't matter if independent contractor or an employee. It basically company used her to avoid paying taxes is my guess.
Edit: They used the excuse to cut her paycheck for taxes. They never pay the taxes and, they pocket her money that was supposed to be for taxes. This black company really was trying to keep cutting their talent pay with every excuse.
@@ozarazil5745 you only pay double taxes if your living in Japan / Working there due to a small protection fee for both the worker themselves who is working internationally and outside their homeland because they also have a reistance idenity outside Japan and the country they are from, but if your working outside Japan they do not charge you 10% taxes as your working outside, but you will have to keep a record that you worked under that japanese company only and that your address is outside of the country and its fine, but what they did is illegal
First kuro, now michi, i wonder how the financials of the other graduates are. It seems almost deliberate. Everybody comes out of there feeling like they're not worth anything, like they were carried by the company. They keep an iron grip around them like an abusive spouse, who's to say financial meddling of their staff isn't another method of trying to control them.
Not that Doki had tax issues, but didn't she say something along the lines of her basically not making money working for Niji bc she was funding her own projects + paying artists since Niji kept fucking up shit? I wouldn't be surprised if other talents were fucked over in some way too, honestly.
@@sin7261yeah, she literally made zero profit of 200 k dollars, i believe? And, as you guessed, yes, it also includes her personal payments for artists, who were neglected of payment from kurosanji...
@@sin7261 you mean the one year she didn't earn any money at all, due to her funding all of her projects and events using her own money. and just when all things are going their way niji being the greedy PoS they are cancelled everything. and i believe she was owed atleast 200k for all the effort and trouble she went through and the co. couldn't be arsed to help her.
@@sin7261Yeah, she said she made 200K but spent it all on her channel and assets. A channel and assets she no longer has access to because they fired her and took it all. She even apparently had to send them her computer.
She said she literally didnt make profit as a result of a)funding multiple projects and paying artists out of her own pocket
b)those projects getting shut down or cancelled by managment preventing any return on investment@@sin7261
you have to understand the company, they have many taxes to be paid. Boat taxes, port taxes, vat for the boat interior, vat for the mechanics...
Had me in the first half ngl.
But Riku's yacht is really the dinghy that Yagoo refuses to moor to the docks cause it has a hole in it.
Yeah, you can't really expect them to pay those taxes hemselves. That's what they have their pay pigs for!
you forgot the sport car taxes
It's also very expensive to maintain a yacht
Damn. Sounds like her previous company is pretty shitty
And very black
Out of any color they picked, they chose black
That therapist and lawyer dad are absolute chads
Wait wait WAIT. You mean to tell me that not only were they NOT paying her taxes with the money they took from HER salary. But having her pay THEIR TAXES???
someone at kurosanji subreddit pointedout that it is possible for Mika to need to do two tax: to JP government, and to ID government. Niji only take care of JP tax
@@georgeghleung No. Indonesia and Japan has signed their own DTA (Double Tax Avoidance) Treaty. MOREOVER, she LIVED in Indonesia making it so she should only pay Indonesia Taxes, not Japan. The only time where employee or contractor NEED to pay double taxes is IF they lived in that said Company's Nation and that is also accounting if they spend a specific amount of Time specified in the DTA Treaty, or so IN that country.
And, this is literally in their DTA Treaty btw, Article 3, Point 1 Note (b) ; the term "Japan", when used in a geographical sense, means all the territory of Japan, including its territorial sea, in which the laws relating to Japanese tax "are in force", and all the area beyond its territorial sea, including the seabed and sub-soil thereof, over which Japan has jurisdiction in accordance with international law and in which the laws relating to Japanese tax "are in force";
TLDR : its Illegal to PAY income tax of Japan, IF you do not STAY in Japan geographically or in ANY sense, is IN Japan, according to the DTA Treaty. Source, just google DTA Agreement of Indonesia & Japan. Another sources, I am a Taiwanese that has worked in Indonesia, (altho am in SK now), and The DTA Treaty Indonesia-Japan and Indonesia-Taiwan has in this context IS quite the SAME. And you know what's funny, the entire DTA Treaty here include anything from a contractual workers, employees, body or organizations, company, and firms to enterprises. Yep, they can't ran now, buddy. They can't go and say 'But.. But.. But these ppl are contractor, not employee' shit on this one.
@@ericlee8193 It's still possible Niji fucked her over and took that withholding and gave it to the JP government instead of either to ID gov't or Michi herself. No, it's not what they SHOULD have done, but this is Niji we're talking about.
If that's the case, she needs to get that figured out so she can get her money back.
@@Acorn_AnomalyI do think they get the money to themselves
Not either govt
- Boss, my 10%, where do they are?
- Gone, reduced to atomes
went to the yacht fund needed that new wax job. /s
Then where my silver play button boss??
Ah.. we melting it to make miniature yacht
"Where do they are?" Is that even English?
Amazing way to point out them being an ESL speaker that was still able to get their point across, even with it being incorrect, while still being a prick about it! Well done!
@@hanyougod You don't know that they're ESL.
Oh boy. How could I have guessed it was going to come back to taxes. Btw I am not an expert but wouldn't this be considered fraud? Tax Fraud to be exact.
It depends on how Japan-Indonesia taxes treats are...
If they actually had to pay taxes in Japan, and the money was actually used for paying those, them there was no fraud...
... Just an gross and abismal incompetence and absolute no knowledge about the legal shenanigans of how the things worked between your country and the new branch you just made.
What isnt news by any mean comming from Nijisanji.
Non-compete + this problem is gonna be ouch for that Company. =
That company is just like that on the inside, the term "You do it yourself, Work more, be responsible about anything, etc." is gonna be a stamp for life if you just stick there to the end imo. IDR to USD is already hard, even when switching target to JPN currency is just ouch if you're in the middle-earned profit.
di Indonesia bayar pajak itu lawak bro. duitnya dipake buat Ulang tahun cucu mentri
@@albertonishiyama1980The thing is, Indonesia do have tax treaty with Japan. I myself work for a comic studio stationed in France while I work from Indonesia, I don't have to pay France taxes as long as I provide necessary documents every year and of course submit my tax report to my government. Then what's the 10% cut for???
@Magdalena-rh4mu more likely niji sent a temp to set up the branch, hence the badly worded pay stubs
Oh boy, we'll be seeing sisters harass her for saying this. "You should've kept you mouth shut, how dare you make our company look bad"
don't worry, her chat will troll the hell out of them if they are in chat.
Sisters?
"You have done that yourself."
@@xzrai Nijisisters is one of the nicknames for Niji's more rapid fans.
We'll fight back
All that money goes into the Y̶a̶c̶h̶t̶ f̶u̶n̶d̶s̶ McLaren monthly payments.
Idk Riku seem more like a Ferrari or Pagani type of person.
If it's a pagani it will have to be a second hand one
@@theunknown7683 there're reports of McLaren infront of Anycolor office
Riku doesn't have the finances to own a Mclaren.
What mclaren r u on, my dude.
one got scammed so hard, she became an scam artist... other was treated insignificantly, she became the bug queen... on a separate note, this situation is probably why the Indonesia branch merged.... the company had to legally deal with the aftermath and found out they had to pay their actual portion and didnt want to, so they bounce...
Now I see Niji ID merger on a different light
@@hectornecromancer5308 yeah no shit i can't even believe how that somehow would clear them of wrong doing
Who's the scam artist?
There’s a word for folks like that:
Charlatan.
@@MinhLe19303I don't know, either
@davidluu9858 Who's the scam artist you're talking about?
> making your employee pay for your taxes as a billion dollar company.
Not a black company by the way.
"Say the line, Millie"
Colorful company?
at this point they looking like a vanta black company
@@mokunums7147Nah, we're past that. It's Boötes void levels of black.
@mokunums7147 would you maybe even call it... Vantacrow black?
"I'm not blaming anyone." No, Michi. You should absolutely be blaming them. They straight up defrauded you.
Red flag? No, no, no... fucking crimson in a world with only the color blue.
Also shout out to that accountant, therapist and the government for being understanding.
About the goverment, dont worry since most people delayed filling their tax is common occurance, the gov used to annually(I guess) giving grace period to filling the tax without paying the fine. I never heard someone got arrested for not filling tax (at least not for individual tax)
Crimson so dark it's black
@@Razhor Hey.
Holy fuck, I know "never assume malice where incompetence will suffice" and what not and Niji has been proven to be so sloppy about their oversea legal matters they basically have someone translate their shit from whatever works in Japan and call it a day, but this is basically indistinguishable from malice.
Edit: So glad she has lawyers in her circle of contacts to sort this out, this would have been a nightmare otherwise.
Edit2: She had to liquidate her insurance to pay those taxes.....holy shit.
As someone who has worked with some really shitty Japanese companies, basically that's what it is. It's malicious incompetence. I originally assumed they had an ID subsidiary dealing with their dedicated unit of talents there, but it sounds like they didn't and were still hiring and paying them from Japan. In that case, I have a feeling what happened here is the typical Japanese black company thing where to save costs they hired some poor girl straight out of senmon-gakkou for minimum wage and said "hay by next week we need to pay all these 50 people, get on it" and she did what she was taught in the tests at school with zero instruction from the company about what was actually going on and no time to actually look into the vagaries of doing things internationally, and then it just rolls on from there with pure incompetency as all of the underpaid staff has no idea what they are doing and are just trying to survive, while the heads of the company, in their own minds, have zero culpability for any failure as "it was our staff that was at fault!!!!"
@@KarlBaron they hire students for part time with basic understanding of english. That's straight fact...
Yes I listened to that bit and I'm wondering to myself "how tf does this company manage to stay in operation even after all the crap they've done to their Livers?" I genuinely can't fathom why anyone would wanna work for such a horrid company.
@@ResidentWeevil2077 The only answers I got is we aren't hearing the full story and nijisanji is operating in accordance with respective laws while the former livers have omitted pertinent information (certainly possible), or they are relying on the hassle of international laws and the harassment of their fans to deter the ex livers from sueing for what ultimately might not be a slam dunk and which could take years to play out in court, and longer to collect on.
@@baksban74probably to get them imprisoned for embezzlement instead of themselves.
Wtf is this BS. Even if there were some misunderstanding on her part they should atleast return the money they took from her. The fact that they did not even answer as to why it ended up like this is really sus.
The ID branch magically disappeared so yeah
Id branch is more competent back then, so they demolish it@@bander-Coolb
They should have, yes. Unless it were somehow or some reason paid to the Japanese government for some dumb reason on her behalf, which she probably doesn't need to be paying in the first place. So this is basically tax fraud, from Niji not paying the proper governing party or Niji charging tax when tax should not have been charged
Bro... That's not a misunderstanding, that's wage theft...
For anyone saying the the tax deducted from Michi's account was the Japanese tax and she was under double tax of also Indenosia please note that Japan and Indonesia have double tax avoidance treaty signed meaning only one tax has to be paid. With that said there are many different factors that might make the taxation process different.
Also under no circumstances will a ID citizen who lives in ID have to pay taxes to Japan - this is a completely insane premise.
Double tax treaty is needed when ID citizen travels to work in Japan.
@@baka_ja_nai That's not completely correct.
She was an ID citizen living in ID, yes - but she was hired by and worked for a Japanese company. That puts her under Japanese law, including tax law.
Now, Japan and ID have a tax agreement between them where you only have to pay one country's taxes. However, if she was living in a country that didn't have a double-tax agreement, then yes, she WOULD be required to pay taxes to both her country AND Japan. (Japan apparently has a 10% tax rate for those working outside of the country.)
@@Acorn_Anomaly So this happened after the merger then because before the merger she's originally Nijisanji ID, which is a branch that should be located in indonesia so no need to pay japan tax. But after the merge, even though Indonesia-Japan signed the treaty niji still take 10% of her income for "tax".
@@Acorn_Anomaly no you don't have to pay Japanese tax if you're not living there. I work for a French company and due to my presence outside the French borders, they can't apply their tax on me but I cannot get the benefit your usual French employees get. That's fair! And my contract is written under contract employee not a permanent one.
If you try to defend Niji, let me tell you, I used to work at the Indonesian embassy. And due to any embassy's soil is deemed as the property of those countries, you can't even get taxed using Japanese system if you work there. It's considered as overseas property owned by other country. The caveat is yes you can't get Japanese health insurance benefit.
So Niji actually lied to Niji ID livers about the Japanese tax and they just embezzled the supposed "tax" money for their own pocket. If Mika was employed permanently, it must be happened under the branch NijiID which is Indonesian company, so no, the Japanese tax law doesn't apply to her. When they dissolved the ID branch and merged it into JP, they must changed their contract with Mika into contract employee and consider her as a freelancer.
This double tax avoidance is really helpful but much had to be filed. But this prove management didnt even hassle about filing double tax avoidance.
isnt this just illegal???? like what in the actual fck is wrong with Nijisanji... holy shi-
They're pretty much relying on the difficulties of international lawsuits to make it harder for their talents to make them actually follow the laws of whatever country the talent is in.
It's illegal, but the company would have to be majorly screwing over the government of the country for it to be enforced.
If the ID branch was still around, yes. This is illegal & could've been followed up to court by the Indonesian IRS (DJP). But I'm pretty sure they merged the branch to JP knowing shit like this would happen, but not even inform their talents on how this works.
@@TheRibbonRedexplains a lot ngl black company fr
everything is wrong with kurosanji
@@TheRibbonRed It'd still be illegal now, just more difficult for those governments to crack down on. But now we're in a situation where that has a good chance of dominoing everything else
But yeah... that explains a *lot* with why ID branch closed, and really shows a lot with the management -- though we've kinda known a lot already so this is more like additional damning evidence rather than any sort of surprise
Wonder if other governments are going to put pressure on Japan to do a proper audit of Niji... or if people in Japan could be convinced to put pressure on the government to perform a proper audit of Niji
i really hope SEA fans are fighting for their SEA talents' right especially for foreign company that using them. It will be fucked up to defend the foreign company like this after knowing this fact.
Just when you think it's done, something new crops up that makes Kurosanji even worse than originally thought possible.
I feel the main issue with all of this is, if you have a business model centered around hiring young and quirky people to entertain the masses, then your job is to make the business/money side of things as painless as possible for your talents. If you're planning to deal with people in different jurisdictions, make it work for them. If you can't, don't try.
With all that said, I think we can all agree that a paycheck form with a nebulous TAXES field isn't great.
It's an exploit that is as old as time. The same sorts of abuses happened in the rise of Hollywood film studios and major record labels vs. talents. History seems to repeat itself. Some form of entertainment rises, talents flock to it for jobs, talents get abused and cheated, talents learn the hard way to hire professional talent agents to represent them before signing contracts. I don't think we are very far away from the first instance of a new agency vtuber (e.g., Hololive) having a contract negotiated by a professional talent agent before debut. Mythic is already signing up talents left and right, after the fact.
I hope this reaches out to every talent that's based outside JP bc wtf black company it really is.
Getting to the point tax companies should red flag Anycolor.
Baffling, Niji took 10% "didn't pay her taxes but takes their own 10% instead" lovely employer right there.
So basically out of all the 50% from streams (and plus 2% from merch) they also take 10%.... They give them ONLY 42% FROM THE PROMISES 50% THAT IS ON THE CONTRACT!!! Anycolor basically breaking the law AND their own contract!!!
@@margo_rita24 pay enough money to the right ppl and they can get away with anything
With the 10% part, a bit of proper paperwork issued to the livers would have protected them, but even that probably wasn't even bothered with.
Something stinks
I think DJP will be happily chasing their tax money all the way to Japan 😂
I feel bad for her so greatly. I would have break down and cry if i get sabotaged like this
Yeah sucks she doesn't seem like the type to go after them for scamming her
Bro.....holy f. thats legit fraud isn't it? The black company legit stole her Tax money for themselves and Never paid back...and NEVER told her about it. THAT SUCKS!!!!
And to think I was sad when she decided to graduate from kurosanji. If I knew back then half of what has come out about that despicable excuse for a company since she left, I’d have been celebrating her escaping instead of being sad she was leaving.
And sisters defend Neglisanji ....
MAN!!! imaginate defend that shithole of a company when they did this to her.
I can hear it now from the Nijisisters.
"It's still her fault!"
They're gonna twist many words, try to make it sound convincing, but it all backfires on them, as always.
@@HeroesofMidgaria-rv6vhnow that's another serious violation on the side of nijisanji
MY JAW DROPPED............ i shouldnt even be suprised but i am gAGGED
I think the boss of niji thought he reincarnated in an fantasy world where you can get anime girls as slaves in his dream woke up in the middle of said dream then decided hed make a company where he could have anime girls as slaves in real life theres no other explanation for what hes been doing he has the money to support his talents and im sure hes been known that what hes doing is wrong.
Something tells me that "As The Great Demon Lord Of The Black Legion Reincarnated In 21st Century Japan, I Decided To Start A Vtubing Company To Enslave Girls To Do My Bidding And Buy A Yacht" is not going to be a smashing success.
Can't wait for Maou Riku to transition to the second phase of his boss battle already, this fight is starting to get tedious
Riku is a trust fund baby
Basically a rich snob who only care about profit and shareholders
Isekai black company actually very good manga 😅
But damn riku is inspired by the MC I guess
FYI. The kuro subreddit mods have to pin their comment about how the NDF are reporting the linked post (which contain this clip)
r/kurosanji too. The mods are getting a lot of spam from NDF.
Talent management aside how do people defend a company that is just straight up stealing from an employee?
@@iandavidvillaloboswong5180 People management aside, how does a country's citizen defend a country that treat them like garlic chives to be reaped?
Answer: because they are used to it.
How one see the dynamic of a small group of people, is how one see the dynamic of a large group of people - and vice versa.
@@georgeghleung a country is not a company
@@dawson3776 They work essentially the same, just on a far larger scale.
I wish she wouldn't blame herself so much. It's not her fault Niji's incompetence failed to disclose who exactly that 10% was for. Not only did they fuck her over for that, but then kicked her while she was on the ground and told her "lol it's not my problem" when she asked for help.
Damn, they already had their cut before paying her part, and still takes 10% more from her for "tax" Which is their tax not her. The company taxes should be from their cut not her salary, if they takes from her part, that should be for paying her income tax not corporate tax
Exactly. This is a scam. No company should be taking from the employee's part to pay the company taxes.. Unfortunately nobody is going to sue them because it takes so much money and time to do it,so Niji can just get away with it
Right?
They don't have common sense wtf
So, CZcams takes 30%, Niji takes 50% of the remaining 70% so 35%, from the remaining 35%, they took 10% of that, and didn't even pay her taxes, if she had to pay those again, she literally just kept 28% of her streaming income, apart from the fact that she probably had to invest some of that back in the agency for the organizing of event
And the 2% from merch sounds even worse now🤣
Not paying corporate tax is bad but paying it from employees salary pretending it’s income tax is another level of evil
@@diegoemanuel8641erm and we didn't even mention the fact that she was basically be demonitized for half of a year until 1 or 2 weeks before her graduation, and Niji didn't do shit to resolve her issue
Sounds like the unnamed former company of Michi overpromised in their contract signing her.
Then mismanaged her money for 2 years (forgot what they were supposed to do with the "taxes" they were charging her)...
When the problem was discovered, Instead of taking responsibility for their screw up they claim a misunderstanding on the part of Michi and just pocketed her money, all while turning a blind eye to the trouble they left her in.
“We hire the best tax accountant interns minimum wage will buy” -kurosanji
They likely charged the same "taxes" to all ID members and as soon as government started asking questions they closed the branch before they were dragged to courts.
Again what can you do with it?
Who wants wage a war in international courts for ordinary people like us
Interesting... at least in Kuro's case, it sounded like most of the taxes he was dealing with were personal ones relating to property tax. In Michi's case, it sounds like outright negligence from her employer, if this is about her employment's income tax... unless of course they don't consider their talent as "employees" (aka. contractors), in which case that company might be off the hook. If we take her word at face value, then it's a very scummy move by her previous employer.
Under no circumstances any company can just include their own corpotate taxes in employee paychecks.
Most likely it was embezzlement by ID branch chief and when tax police started asking questions they closed the branch.
This is what I was wondering. I had heard somewhere before that Nijisanji talents are contractors. I wonder what/if any, tax forms she filled out when she first began working with Niji. Still it looks VERY bad for Niji in both cases if what she's saying is correct:
- If she was a contractor, Nijisanji can't take anything disguised as tax withholdings from her paycheck to pay their own taxes (even typing this out is so absurd lol, this is cartoonish levels of embezzlement)
- If she was an employee, two years of unpaid income taxes is a very heavy fine/a court case if she had decided to sue.
She says it might have been a 'miscommunication' but its a pretty fucking HUGE one lmao. What miscommunication leads to 2 years worth of unpaid taxes??
Others have speculated the same, but it wasn't likely to be "company" taxes she was being charged separately for.
It was likely Japanese tax withholding, as the Japanese tax rate for foreign, overseas workers of native companies is (apparently) 10%, which is what she was being deducted.
That money would have gone to pay income taxes in Japan.
However, that doesn't account for the fact that, because of the tax agreement between ID and JP, she woudn't owe both ID and JP taxes, and she would only need to pay one of them(and provide documentation to the other that it was paid).
And it's still a huge fuckup for them, because 1) the fact that they couldn't provide her any documentation of taxes paid on her behalf means _they didn't pay the Japanese income tax, either,_ and 2) paying the tax in Japan is ripping her off, as she would get a lower tax rate if she paid ID instead of JP.
EDIT: It could also be that they DID pay the Japanese tax on her behalf, but she was asking about ID tax payment, which they didn't make, so they told her they didn't pay it. So it's possible they didn't just steal the money, but by paying that and then not providing the proof, they've screwed her over by making her have to pay taxes again.
Basically, I think she needs a Japanese accounting firm and lawyer involved to check if her Japanese taxes WERE paid, and then she needs to try to get a refund on one or the other if that's the case.
@@Acorn_Anomaly Oh true, this makes sense. The most likely scenario (and the reason why Niji isn’t in trouble) is that she was a contractor in ID, had no presence in Japan to pay taxes by herself so Niji offered to pay them on her behalf. But because she IS a contractor after all, she was still responsible for paying her own taxes in ID since she lived there. She assumes Niji is paying her taxes in both countries (they’re only paying in Japan, ID again is her responsibility but she isn’t aware and Niji didn’t communicate this, a poor practice). Then fast forward 2 years and this happens. When she contacts Niji about it, they say they “paid their” taxes which was cut from her pay check (likely meaning the JP portion of her taxes, but they’re known to have very poor translators so it wasn’t communicated properly to her, hence the misunderstanding of everyone thinking corporate taxes). They leave her to deal with this alone and her situation becomes messed up.
She probably also wasn’t aware that she had the option to not have to pay taxes in both countries, or that Niji wasn’t paying her taxes in ID. This is a shitty situation all around and Niji having piss poor translators made it so much worse.
I'm also wondering about that thing. But if they were just considered as contractors, then this will actually take them off the hook. However, there's still one thing they won't be able to run away
When you're in a Cartoonishly Evil competition and your opponent is Nijisanji.
They can't go a week without something incompetent or evil coming to light about them, huh? Christ. This is pretty up there, too. Can't afford that yacht if you don't lie and steal from your talents, I guess. Just cartoonishly vile behavior. You can't play it off as "oh she's just mad" or w/e because E V E R Y talent who leaves that hellhole of a vtubing company acts like they just got out of an abusive relationship and they're surprised at what being able to actually live and have freedom feels like.
Every person from NijiEN who has left and has spoken about their time there hasn't had anything good to say. It's all bad. It paints a picture of a company that's run by cheapskates, incompetents, and people who are actively preying on the talents they employ.
Nijisanji can't pretend they care about their talents or their physical or mental health when they do things that actively keep them from seeking medical help. They've literally almost put multiple people in the grave through one means or another. The word 'disgusting' doesn't even come close to describing them. It isn't strong enough. God help any other talents wanting to graduate. The company's going to make you believe you're nothing without them by trying to reduce you to nothing one way or another.
They're pure evil.
Pretty sure the CEO will pull a Manuel Norriega and be out on his yacht when the police raid Anycolor HQ
@@benschultz1784
Then the JP Police (or coast guard or whatever) can motor out there to find the damn yacht.
Wherever it was moored must have some sort of ID for it.
boys, wake up, another 2232 issue came up.
Damn listening to her story, I'm just like feeling so bad for her, she doesn't deserve this.
Not about a theme of a video but.. this model fits her personality so much
The old model also fits her personality, the only thing missing is the rigging.
FYI : *her old model mama is the same as this model mama.
Michi can wear anything, for she is wonderful. And as Ces said, this is from the same Model mama
First model was assigned to her, new model was custom made FOR her with her personal input.
Michi: Don't speculate
Also Michi: *tells a story so bad you don't need to speculate in order to hate niji*
Dangggg. First Kuro's taxes, and now Mochi too??? OOF Freaking hell what an employer. Downfall is real. There's no saving in their reputation, dude. It's so over.
I'm Indo myself and had experience working remotely with JP companies. And yes, you need to pay both JP and IDN taxes, and it sucks.
There is a paper/waiver you can file to void the JP tax due to Indonesia's policy with foreign countries, BUT often they (the company) do not want you to sign it... for some reason
I'm no expert in this matter, I just learned about it from my last employer.
It probably makes things easier for them(since they can just handle tax and withholding and everything like they do every other Japanese employee), at the cost of making you potentially pay more tax.
Might want to look into the Tax treaty everyone is mentioning. It'd be odd to have to pay both.
"they don't want you to sign for... some reason" is already enough telling on what happened.
Yeah, Perjanjian Penghindaran Pajak Berganda (P3B) is a thing. Your company screwed you.
Stories like this makes me appreciate the system up here, your employer is legally obligated to deduct your taxes based on a table and if the taxes are not paid it's the employer, not the employee, that's on the hook for the full amount
A/ She never said the company name or said the nature of previous company. YT uses USA law as it's STD. The claims of "Harassment" for breaking the NDA are a joke.
B/ If the previous company decides to file a lawsuit in ID over anything against anyone, I'm sure the ID tax board and labor board would love to speak to them about this also. It would be best for the previous company to stay home and away from ID completely.
C/ I only know the basics of ID labor law , but I have a solid belief that Michi and another person could file an ID suit against their previous employer over this.
We don't know the NDA terms but she is not breaking it because she is not disclosing details about the company or other talents, moreover it may not even be AnyShade that she is talking about, everyone is just assuming that it is them because her income improved substantially. However, she used to work in fashion so it could be a fashion company too.
@@EndoftheBeginning17 A copy of a Niji NDA was read on Legal Mindset channel and they would still have to sue under US or ID law. JP law would have no hold on an ID contactor working on for a US company on a US streaming site, speaking in English, regardless of where Niji is located or which country law was specified in the NDA.
International jurisdiction would hold to where she lives and where she did it, not the "victim" location.
This is actual fucking madness
Aint no way she almost got sent ti jail for Tax Evasion when ITS THE COMPANY'S FAULT
She will not get arrested unless she's company CEO or the amount of tax is similar to how much an corrupt officials got their illegal money
@@ainzer2903having problems with government is still makin people uncomfortable
Did I just witness international money embezzlement done by a publicly traded company?? I am no lawyer but what Nijisanji did sounds hugely illegal.
If a graduated liver's taxes looks like this, wat does a terminated liver's taxes looks like? Judging from the leaked contract, would they dare to fine you for breaking contract too?
At this point anything coming out of ex-members' mouths aren't alumni testimony but a freaking survivor story
I now want to know Legal Mindset oppinion about this.
It’s not USA laws but international laws. Still, he might have something to say considering his dealings in international law.
@@AlfredEiji he works in southest asia too
Pretty sure he lives and works in sea so yeah his take would be interesting
Remember ID branch doesn’t exist anymore I wonder why hmmmmmmm
@@bander-Coolb yeah that definitely seems suspicious now
Jesus, thanks for clipping this.
And suddenly we understand why there isn’t an ID branch anymore this villain cartoon company is absurd
Ya know, even with everything we already knew I didn't think they would functionally embezzle money meant for taxes. Holy shit dude.
For the record, everything Niji did was 100% legal, they were paying the Indonesian VAT Taxes (you know, the taxes that you pay when you buy something on a store for example)
Because remember, every single talent on every corpo that exists are a contractor, not an employee
The problem was basically everything else, but again, legally speaking, they did everything right, morally speaking, welp, they could at least help her for fucks sake ...
They are contractors, but she mentioned that some amount was being withheld from her paycheck. I don't know what kind of miscommunication this was, but you absolutely cannot withhold any amount from a contractor's pay 'disguised' as federal tax. Thats absurd. They're contractors for a reason, not employees
Not even so right? According to Legal Mindset who looked through the contract, the Niji contract is basically a JP employment contract with the hours taken out and employment changed to contractor. So it's basically an employment contract merely with the title changed to contractor instead of staff. The clause inside however, includes things like training, tax, and some RL control + auto-agreement to any update in contract clause upon starting a stream and requiring the talents to follow Niji's HR policy are all employee contract terms.
So in a sense if the talents were to go after Niji with the labor law, they will actually lose the lawsuit. The only reason they didn't is cause of how big Anycolor is that lets them drag out a lawsuit till you give up.
They included the company's tax in the employee's paycheck?? For what, to spite them??
To embezzle money.
This is crazy bro, can't wait to see all the dramatubers cover this lol
Kurosanji defense force working overtime.
The more I learn about Niji, the more I hate and despise that company. If they did NOT refund her money, them that's THEFT!!
From tax fraud to theft
Michi: let's not point fingers
this video: "their previous employer screwed up her taxes"
Congrats on hitting the algo man! Ride that momentum!
BRO WAS PAYING JAPANESE TAXES AND MORE THAN LIKELY SOCIAL SECURITY SHE COULDN’T EVEN ACCESS HOLY SHIT
I believe they had her contracted as a free agent/ contractor so she had to look out for her own taxes accordingly in Japan, and the 10% they took was to pay for her taxes and whatever benefits she could have as a Jp worker but they never bothered telling her she had to file her own in ID or seek out someone to get her in the ID-JP tax treaties on her fiscal policy
That the ID tax authorities were able to take the bank transfer numbers that Michi got from her certain other employer and see that they went towards corporate rather than personal taxes leads me to believe she was paying taxes to Indonesia, not Japan.
@@MurrayShinaidestill, taxes that the company should've paid, not their employees. And I'm a working, tax-paying Indonesian citizen. I know.
I wouldn't be surprised if Niji just took the money and pocketed it, scumbags.
NDF grifters, please stop defending Niji - this is not how taxes work, ever!
ID citizen working in ID will never get taxed by Japan - this is complete bs and doesn't happen anywhere in the world.
@@baka_ja_nai US will tax you domestically even if you are working abroad and paying taxes in your country of residence. I don't know if ID/JP does this, but the simple fact is she was NOT working abroad. She was at home.
...So she's saying that she was paying taxes on behalf of her old agency?
As in, she was paying her agency's taxes _for_ them?
YEP, thats EXACTLY what went down.
My expectations were low, and oh boy, I didn't know there's another layer under the void
didnt they do this to kuro too??? truly a horrible black company nijisanji is
all of them for what i understand
The fact that kuro came out before the downfall of niji, so ppl knew it was a bad company but most didn’t take it seriously enough and just thought he was an incompetent kid.
@@T.Yen1557
Contrary to how he appears, he is one of the more "mature" people there.
He might act goofy on stream, but when he needs to be serious, he can.
It just got to a point where he went "Yo, you did THIS?!? F this shit, I'm out!"
And they tried to squeze every last bit out of them. It took 8 months and giving up a lot of the earnings though.
@@T.Yen1557yeah and niji sisters always to made him a "goofy stupid bad guy". And this might not only happened to Michi and Kuro but other livers in Niji in general
@@T.Yen1557 still remember how he got blasted for sharing his story, like a lot of people in YT commented on how stupid he was for not knowing taxes n sht and "getting Ironmouse involved"
Like dude, Ironmouse HELPED him, and so did Gunrun out of the kindness of their hearts. He needed that help. And people act like he did a crime and got people involved lol
*Gets absolutely scammed by her company and almost put in prison*
"Don't speculate, guys. It's over."
Ah, yes. They only stole money a year ago. It's not a big deal.
Can we get like legal mindset talk to a lawyer specialising in taxes cuz this is a very illegal thing if i ever seen one and i know nothing about the law
This is very illegal and a very serious matter I think
Imagine taking 98% of the merch revenue, taking 50% of the CZcams revenue, and then STILL taking 10% of what goes to the talent.
Whatever taxes the black company should be paying, should be paid from THEIR cut.
Absolutely ridiculous.
Yet STILL some deranged people defend that company.
Just when you think the kurosanji pit doesn't get any deeper this clip comes out
Christ I'm so glad she got through it relatively okay.
Actual nightmare situation, god damn.
So essentially Niji took 2 cuts from her "salary"????
"Tax fraud is a crime, Nijisanji!"
"It's an obligation!"
It is important to talk about these issues so others don't fall into the same situations.
And some people still bow down and spread eagle over that company... That company that shall not be named.
Woah woah woah, so along with all the other bs that they did, the company took money out of her paychecks to pay their own taxes? OH HELL NO! And she can’t be the only one they were doing that to. If they did it to her then they have to be doing it with the others.
Gee what a surprise, can't imagine who else this has happened to
What the actual... What a bunch of scumbags, incompence my a$$, they should be in jail.
Michi seems to be unaware that she had Japanese income taxes to pay, how the Tax Treaty between Japan and Indonesia handles double taxation, and the need to provide proof of tax withhold from her employer when filing her tax return form.
Japan has an income tax on any Japan-sourced income, even for non-residents, which means Michi had taxes to pay in Japan. The money Nijisanji took looks to have been used to pay the taxes she owns to the Japanese government, and the indication that it is the case is that Michi did not get in trouble with the Japanese government so far. And, if she is unaware that this tax exists, then she may have mistaken her Japanese taxes as Nijisanji's taxes, thinking something like "why is my money being spent on Japanese taxes?!"
The Tax Treaty between Japan and Indonesia says that an income tax paid under Japanese law by a Japanese employer to an Indonesian employee counts towards tax credit in Indonesia. It doesn't seem to go the other way around, so, in order to avoid double taxation on Michi, Nijisanji had to pay her Japanese income tax specifically, not her Indonesian tax. If Nijisanji had done the other way around, she would be in trouble with the Japanese government instead, and with no right to contest the double taxation.
The Indonesian government also requires an additional form (Form 1721-A1) to be sent as proof that her income tax was withheld by her employer when filing her tax return form, which she needs to request from her employer. From what she said, it doesn't look like she did in the first fiscal year, or she would have found out about Japanese taxes by then, not in the second year.
Michi looks to have been double taxed due to not have sent that 1721-A1 form, and should contact the Indonesian authorities to address it without delay. The Tax Treaty says that there is a 3-year period in which a case of double taxation can be contested and, depending on how they interpret, it seems that she has already been double taxed for about two years by now. If she delays it, she may lose the right to contest it and permanently lose the tax credit she is owned for by the Tax Treaty.
1 ex-Niji member who faced financial troubles due to Niji's part = issue
2 ex-Niji members who faced financial troubles due to Niji's part = coincidence, but a scary one at that
1 more and its now a pattern. Any bets on who will come out next after their own graduation?
*edit: I wonder what the Nijisister's excuse will be this time
Yeah three is definite a pattern
well, are we counting Doki in this? or are we only counting Kuro's finance problem and Michi Finance problem? cuz if former, its already a pattern, cuz for one whole year Selen had net 0 increase in revenue, as all her stuff was out of pocket. Was this negligence on her part, maybe? Does this show that Niji is NOT supporting their talents in any way other than allowing them exposure but not helping in terms of reaching out to artists, animators, and song writers? definitely, cuz that would take money out of their hands, paying their employees to do elbow work to help their talents at all. Remember, they tried to paint Selen in a bad light by claiming She didnt pay her artists, but the artists came out and said Nijisanji didnt pay them and Selen had to step up and pay them out of pocket. So yeah, its a pattern.
@@stavtri987 I only counted ex-Niji turn vShojo members mostly as a joke, but you are definitely right.
This is a pattern. Personally, I now understand why some Niji members feel like they owe Niji. Because if they ever leave, their asses would be destroyed by the IRS, or any other government body equivalent
@@stavtri987 I would definitely count doki in this because Niji failed to pay people they needed two and forced talent to pay for them. Not to mention the targeted harassment from management such as the tournament ban or the fact that one pc company wanted to work with doki bird and apperently Niji said no and pushed other talents for the collab instead. This all points to some financial shenanigans since they seem to be blocking profitable collabs from her.
First Kuro and now Michi.
I wish someone sue them already, that company needs to be stopped
Had a lovely conversation with the department of revenue a few months ago saying I owed $7000 usd for the last four years because I filed my business under the wrong classification, despite calling them asking what I should file as years ago and being told I need to file as services. It drives me nuts that apparently no one knows anything but they can tell you when you're doing it wrong.
And im worried about the other member who good person but still in that company 😥 i hope they don't get this problem
So they were immensly incompetent with money, completely incapable of following the law, and pinned all of that onto her. The other talents were bullied and had their potential smothered, but this is legitimately evil. They could have easily ruined her entire life and had her thrown in jail and tossed onto the streets.
Bullying and internal company incompetence is one thing. But this easily could have resulted in massive lifelong debt and jail time.
It's nice that everything worked out (sort if since she had to liquefy all her insurance) and she is so calm about it, but this is the most serious thing that has happened as far as this niji drama stuff.
So the takeaway here is that Anycolor actually makes the talent pay for the company's payroll tax for themselves. How the hell is that even legal?
At least in America, no company that treats you as a contractor will be withholding any tax for you, because they don't have to. It's part of the reason why they want to classify you as a contractor. And when you're dealing with foreign source income that doesn't even know your local tax system, it's even worse. Always speak to a tax professional, kids.
Bro... there's no way Indonesian laws allow her company to take 10% of her income to pay the company's taxes, not only that I hope her lawyers managed to get all that money back from them with interest
There's no point suing a billion dollar company since they can basically bury you with legal fees
The only way you can win is if your own relatives are good lawyers and they're nice enough not to charge you legal fees
Or if enough people get scammed and you do a class action lawsuit.
But unless your juristriction has laws against this, then you're sh*t outta luck.
Knowing that she was so broke she only had $300, i doubt she has enough money to pay for lawyering up.
Even doki avoided suing and basically just gave up.
@@tristan6509 "Juristriction"? You clearly don't know what you are talking about, besides we are talking about labour laws and an established contract, labour litigation with so many evidences, as Michi implies she has, won't bury anyone with legal fees and even if they do, they are reverted back at the defendant. Also, there is no proof that Doki dropped the charges, she just stopped talking about it, which usually means it is still on going and she won't talk out of legal reasons.
She's in a better place now....
Granted, you could be lying in the bottom of a dumpster filled with contaminated needles, feces and other random strangers bodily fluids and still be in a "better place" than working for Nijisanji.... They set that bar REALLY low...
I think Kuro said something similar not long after he debuted as well.
That company is actually evil and they need to be investigated.
I really2 love Michi, but I really can't bear to hear these stories she's telling us about her previous company. Not because I'm a sister, but because I legit feel scared for how the other talents graduated from Niji coped, especially this one that I couldn't find their PL whereabouts anywhere after Niji
There was this one former Niji Ex-ID talent that I liked, who I believe chose not to continue streaming, and either just vanished from the internet after graduation, or I just couldn't find her PL like I did for the rest of the former EN & Ex-ID talents, and her name was Amicia Michella
I could at least know the others are doing fine after Niji since they still stream like normal by now, from EN & Ex-ID alike, but for Michon? I have zero clue, hoping that she manage to cope somehow and still keeping contacts with all her Ex-ID friends is all I could do. I hope she's staying safe. I swear Michi's stories about just how badly she was wronged by the Ex-ID management never failed to put me into a distressed state, I think I'll just skip these parts from now on...
F*** Niji for all their mistreatment to the overseas branches honestly...
im thankfull two of my ex id faves are still very good friends on their pl, doing content together, i feel you.
Actually, Michon is now called Dokebi and she is actively covering songs on YT. She also has a twt account specifically for her art, just searching for Mell Flous.
Now that you mention it, yeah chia is the only one i can't find. And bobon is MIA.
@@unknownme217 Dokebi and tenjin
These are legit sounding like survivor horror stories….. but the real horror is that the ‘thing’ they survived is still going on and doing this shizz
12:38 sounds like she got scammed by her work.
Funny thing is she was in the ID/JP branch, they get little to no advertising. The earnings she has is from superchats, maybe CZcams and memberships. And they still have the freaking nerve to steal from her?! Why!!!! Dear lord this is shitty
As an accounting student who learn tax, i can confirm that filing a tax is prety annoying. It has 6+ forms
Isnt this outright wage theft? WTF?
I doubt anything will happen to Niji because they're doing this to their foreign talents. If they were screwing up the Japanese employees' taxes there would definitely be a criminal investigation.
Nothing is in the past if the present is still here
Thank goodness she got everything in writing and kept a record of the company saying they did. I would of been doomed if that was me.
Looks like she should sue her former employer
Could probably win but the fees to file oversea, since niji is a Japanese company, fees to pay cause it probably be extended for along as possible, and the not worth it payout would make it not worth the time.
A lawsuit is a waste of time. This is a criminal matter now.
It is a waste of time. Also she would need to deal with the company in their home turf. Just like Dokibird case, it is better just to tell the truth out. And people will hear about it and hurt their overseas expansion. That is if they didn't do it themselves already