LS STREET EXHAUST SHOOT OUT
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- čas přidán 24. 07. 2024
- FULL DYNO RESULTS, COMPLETE 2.5 EXHAUST VS DYNO 3.0 VS OPEN
Check out this exhaust test run on a 383 stroker LS. We compared a full 2.5-inch Hooker exhaust to our larger and shorter 3.0-inch dyno exhaust. We then ran an open exhaust by removing the straight-through dyno mufflers. How much does the full 2.5-inch street exhaust drop power? - Auta a dopravní prostředky
This is the stuff you wouldn't ever know unless you test. Thanks for your hard work Richard.
Go4BrokeOffroad well you could know it from experience as well but this is definitely precise and nice lol
I love all your video's! Very good information, and as always numbers do not lie. Keep up the great work. You definitely know your stuff!
Thank you Richard! Definitely answered my questions.
I worked part time at a speed shop during summers when I was a teenager, and the head mechanic always said that 3” exhaust was a waste unless you were making over 600 hp. 3” sounds cooler, and costs more also. After seeing all of the trophies this guy had collected on everything from street stock to nitro rail cars, I figured he had learned that lesson on his own dime. He was one heck of a guy.
But if your collector is 3".......
As the exhaust cools down, it definitely doesnt need to be 3" anymore
think volume based on power
Thank you for your, um, exhaustive testing!
You just keep bringing us more awesomeness!
I had already said to myself.....Self,,,,more power with long tube headers BUT!!!!!! Boost pressure will be down. Boy was I wrong. That's why I absolutely love this channel. 👏 Bravo!
This is the good stuff! That exhaust work is always a mystery.
Shush!!!! Lol we dont mention those devils as they teased us then switched up and charged us for the content!!
full exhaust is very important to most of the sales for the street. thanks.
Wow, thanks for all the insight!!! Keep testing
THANKS holy crap those mufflers are great!!
I always like these types of comparisons that attempt to mimic real world conditions. Picking out heads, cam, etc. is a big part but just as much thought goes into exhaust, cooling, and all the other ancillary things when building a project. Now that being said i'm not considering an LS swap on a C20 chevy so may need to pick up one of these exhaust kits.
Gotta be said - this test must have been exhausting.
I came to say this
Any chance of ever comparing 4-2-1 headers versus 4-1 headers with all else being the same. Especially interested in how the multiple scavenging points works with an additional X-tube for instance
Great info as always. I would love more positive displacement supercharger testing.
I have a 97 fuel injected 460 with stan's headers try-y's. Long intake runner with great scavenging long tube headers. Like you said at the end with a centrifical supercharger it is a beast! I do not know what it dyno's at but sure is a torque monster. Thanks for your great content.
Good test with better information.
Electric exhaust cutouts are a nice thing to have. Got them on my 392
Becoming the King of the Dyno !
The long tube headers probably provided a more consistent airflow cylinder to cylinder which is why it made more power.
Great video
another great video!!!!!!
Great work as always. Have you ever tested stepped primary tubes? 1-3/4 to 1-7/8 for example? I would like to know the guidelines, like how far down from the head to make the step.
Awesome work as always. Please do a vid based on Summit Pro LS cams. You covered the stage 4 but there is no avail info on the sum-8718 for those of us keeping work trucks with cam/ lifter failure on the road. I love the Hi performance stuff but what about the daily driver
Richard is currently working on selling ls cams.
It would be cool to see a test of off the shelf headers versus custom built stepped primary/merge collector headers designed specifically for the cam/heads/intake/displacement combo. I've always been curious if the produce enough of a gain to justify the work/cost.
He's did one a while back with cheap eBay ones vs expensive one's, cheap one's were just as good as the others
I was surprised about the header comparison on the supercharged engine. Not only did the boost not drop, like it normally does, but it went up slightly.
Please test 4-2-1 headers on an ls. Thanks for all of the hard work buddy
Engine Masters did a similar test with 2 1/2" and 3" and open exhaust a few years back.
Peter they just finished season 5 like last month... the show is still on
That’s why I have the on demand, more shows like engine masters, and no auto-biography, at one point not long ago it was a dollar a month. Personally I love the on demand, I’ve gone back and watched everything from day one.
Would a bigger pipe size in the long tube headers (2”) make more power
How about a side mount whipple (w/intercooler) and a long runner 102 mm intake??
Thanks for sharing.
Richard, can you do this test with a turbo. I'd love to see how much power dumped fender exhaust makes over at the axel vs all the way back. Thanks!
Cool test. Please revisit the idea of testing what happens when adding length to the collector extension. Maybe, see at what length of straight pipe that power drops. Or, improves. Inquiring minds want to know.
after 40 inches or so-the curve doesn't change
Richard, your stuff is great, bottom line. Please "redo" the "engine master" H vs X vs Straight through. They did it way back when, but on a very low hp engine. Would love to see that on a 600+ motor to see the effect.
Could we get stock manifold vs shorty header vs long header on a single or twin turbo combo?
Great info!. Would like to see the limits of a LSA supercharger.
But my question is what if you tweaked the boost curve on the shorty header to match the boost curve on the long tubes would there really be that much difference in power output.
It would be super to see a few stock cast iron manifold tests on something like an LQ4 with a cam or a 5.3 with a little cam, etc. Headers are good for power, but they are cubic money for the good stuff. And for a lot of engine swaps we can test fit cast manifolds, but nobody is at the ready with headers to test-fit.
I ran the BTR truck cam test with stock manifolds and headers
@@richardholdener1727 I shall look for that test thank you very much
Doing God's work...
You know whats interesting is on a 6.0 (364) with those same heads, very similar cam and that intake made about 590 hp on thier dyno (referring to the LS 20 intake test). 4.0" bore 3.622" stroke vs 3.9" bore and 4" stroke.
so 2 completely different motors
Still waiting on the log manifold turbo versus the long tube header turbo with the same flow. When you put the exhaust under back pressure does the length have as much effect? How about comparable turbo lag?
scavenging (if present) still takes place under pressure
I would like you to dig up more on why the LT headers didn't drop the boost pressure.
Your explanation makes sense somewhat but I would like some "lab-time" behind it to back it up.
Looking forward to more.
Thanks !
pressure is resistance to flow , the intake valve is all most allways the choke
Id like to see the same basic exhaust test vs cutouts. My car runs slightly over .1 tenth quicker in the 8th mile with cutouts open vs 2.5 full exhaust and 2 chamber flowmasters mufflers. (Cam and long tubes only LS2).
What might be going on is, because you have a good deal of overlap with a "na cam", the long tube headers might be causing a bit of the reflected wave in the exhaust ending up in the intake and being picked up by your map or boost sensor and/or jumbling up with the pulses caused by the intake and "fighting" the supercharger - basically, a bit of a mismatch between intake, cam timing, and exhaust.
This is one reason why "blower cams" aren't complete bullshit. By reducing overlap they can reduce the effects of a mismatch between short or no intake runners on most blower manifolds and typical long tube headers.
I would like to see a test if it hadn't already been done on aftermarket Chinese intakes like professional products versus elderbrock or other intakes of that nature if one is better than the other or equal
Right on
Love to see a high performance engine (over 600hp) comparing full "performance" exhaust with factory cats, "high flow" cats and finally with no cats. Curious the HP and Torque performance differences at various RPM. Thanks for all the testing!
Be interesting to see the boost curves on a cam without overlap.
Right. The overlap is reducing the benefit of headers I think.
I am probably dating myself by saying this but richard is the smokey yunick of today. Your awesome Richard. Keep up the good work and thank you!!
I'm no Smokey
Other than the obvious added exhaust flow of a long tube header the main reason increace power is their ability to draw the intake charge across the combustion chamber on overlap thus improving cylinder filling. When running a posative displacement blower {provided exhaust back pressure is lower than boost pressure} the blower forces the intake charge across the combution chamber on overlap thus negating much of the long tube headers advantage
scavenging still takes place under boost
@@richardholdener1727 , yes Richard that's true however i think that in a NA engine the scavenging effect draws the fresh intake charge into and across the combustion chamber and also gets the intake air moving into the cylinder sooner in the cycle delivereing a more complete cylinder fill adding extra HP, the exhaust scavanging has more draw on the intake valve than the piston does at any point in its stroke.
when running a posative displacement blown engine the blower pushes the intake charge into and across the combustion chamber so the exhaust scavanging has less residule exhaust gas avalable in the combustion chamer to extract so you end up with less additional HP produced than you'd otherwise expect....just sayng
Perhaps a dedicated supercharger cam might have given the expected boost reduction ?
How do the exhaust gasses exit the dyno chamber? The Engine Masters show, which also uses Westech, always has large tubes exiting the chamber which I would expect to have an exhaust fan to the outdoors.
they exist out the large suction fan and opening at the rear of the dyno
Have you compared exhausts with stock stuff? Like a 5.3 with the stock truck exhaust (catted Y pipe, since stock muffler) vs non-cat Y pipe and/or aftermarket muffler (like a cat back) vs long tubes with dual exhaust.
It’d be interesting to see the gains from a mild combination for all us guys with relatively stock pickups like yours.
gains are less on stock or mild combos
My question is, which exhaust is bette? Ex. Flowmaster vs. borla, magna flow vs. dyna
I wuld love to see you test zoomie heders on different combinations, just to see how much is there left in long tube heders 🤔
zoomies make less than long tubes-they are basically shorty headers
ls3 intake centrifugal charger with long tube comparison please!
I would absolutely love to see this same test with duals vs X pipes vs two to one
Two to one as in single exit exhaust
I’d like to see 3” vs 3.5” exhaust big cubic in NA set up.
I here but not waiting on the dodge 4.7L no more!! Bought a SS Camaro with a 6.0L with a turbo now I’m all in the LS stuff now
Hi, Richard
If the shorty headers had the same diameter primary and collector as the long tube would they be similar in torque and hp. Thanks
they would not-the added power from long tubes comes from the length (its scavenging)
Can you do a true duals vs x pipe vs h pipe?
Which magnaflow mufflers were used?
ok so what is the difference between dyno mufflers and street mufflers are thety cambered
On the L33 exhaust question do u feel I will loose low end power if I run 1 3/4 long tubes w a true dual 3 inch x pipe setup w mufflers ? Second question is do u feel there would be a disadvantage if I ran the headers w 3 inch x pipe then reduced down to 2.5 inch mufflers and tailpipe ? Thanks in advance Richard.
North Maine Steve
you won't hurt power
Is there a formulaic way to determine the "ideal" exhaust size for a given CFM head flow at peak RPM? I guess I am asking with there is a way to ballpark the outflows sufficiently to right size the exhaust cross section?
Rule of thumb is exhaust should flow 2.2CFM per engine HP
Will it be the same for a 4 or 6 cylinder....you should test the turbo exhaust different air flow for the turbo
there is a turbo exhaust video up
That blower curve is interesting. What if that particular additional boost takes place during a more efficient part of the operating range for the blower? Is it unreasonable to have resonant waves in the assembly that give us an inflated boost pressure? We'd have to go into the tune and check the air-mass data.
-- I'm glad to see that the X-pipe setup didn't beat the power of plain old dual extensions dumped under the cab. As far as I'm concerned, the X-pipe and H-pipe are relatively overrated. Duals are easier to work on and sound better. When you take off one side, the other side doesn't wrestle you.
I know some folks that throw a monster fit about the crossover being pivotal to performance. I mean, the majority of your power comes from your head/cam/intake/header combination, and how well tuned it is. If X-pipes were the be-all end-all, then we'd be putting X-pipes on Gen 1 small blocks with 650 holleys, camelbacks, and RV cams.
I wish you had added Hooker Manifolds with this test
I'm investing in a set of Kooks or American Racing Headers for my '02 SLP SS. Are ceramic coatings worth all the hype?
helps them last longer-no power
So for a street application on a 03 Ford Harley Supercharged, do you recommend long or short tube headers, currently doing 400hp to the rear wheels
shorty headers will add almost no power-long tubes will add power
Could the extra boost level be related a higher charge temp. The volume of the intake port and chamber hasn't changed but your squeezing more air in. As i understand it, the act of squeezing air heats it (Boyles law), unrelated to friction due to the mechanical process (that's next), more the friction of the molecules being forced closer and hitting each other. The scavenging reduces the initial cylinder pressure allowing more of the higher intake pressure to flow in but there still has to be more air in the same space to make the power.
My guess is the improved scavenging (less head / back pressure) reduces the pumping losses per CFM but the work to move more CFM results in higher net load on the compressor and therefore more heat from mechanical friction (hotter surfaces conducting and radiating into the air). How crazy the overall theory is will be easy to determine with a charge temp sensor which will be way easier to install on a centrif setup (you will likely see a stronger effect without inter-cooling).
When centrifugal testing, Will you be testing a low profile hi-ram vs the banana intake, you could do I=long E= short, long long as well as redoing short,short and short long so conditions are the same. imagine the data if you did that test with charge temp and a MAF.
Thanks for your work man
You ever tried the cxracing ls swap header for the 350z platform? I don't imagine you have. I also don't figure they make much of a difference vs other long tubes.
I HAVE NOT
@@richardholdener1727 I would assume they would make similar power to the DNA headers personally. Thanks
You should do a test with an x-pipe to see if there is any gains vs no x-pipe.
Hey Richard, have you run Holley LS swap cast manifolds on the dyno?
their turbo manifolds?
Another nice test. Have you ever tested an engine with: 1. no exhaust manifolds at all, 2. just stock manifolds and no downpipe, 3 or zoomies?
1. no, 2. yes, 3. no
I wonder if the scavenging in the 2.5” exhaust with X-pipe, might be a reason it’s so close to the 3” extensions...
I think so too..you lose vacuum on the big pipe at non-NASCAR rpms. It takes a lot of air to need that much pipe
Positive praise I bet is appreciated. I’m thinking he needs more subscribers and thumbs up 👍🏻
For the amount of work he does for us is speechless. Let’s get him to 1 million subscribers before the end of the year people!!!
There’s no way I’d be able to afford 1/100 of what he’s done for us, so show the love!
thnx-subs are going up- I appreciate the support
Please do the 2.2 Chevrolet engine single overhead cam please
Have you tested any cat converters ?
Alot of older cars came with 2.5" or 3" single exhaust, (3rd gen F-body). I'd like to see a comparison of 2.5" and 3" duals, compared to 3" single and maybe 3.5" or 4" single! They say a decent single will outflow a moderate sized dual pipe, "they" being the science/physics types, the flow sticking to the walls, and higher flow mid pipe. So a large single will have a larger high flow area than a slightly smaller dual pipe, so why not just run dual 4" or even 5" exhaust? Ha-ha!!.... I bet it would sound awesome if nothing else!! 4" duals with small mufflers just before set of 5" x 18" tips, I have heard something similar, it sounded good, but had 2.25" into large tips, about 18" it had a nice deep tone!
I’d like to see a 2.5” vs 3” full exhaust comparison on engines of different HP ratings. Engine Master did this comparison, but used a 700hp motor. How about a 350hp motor? Is a 2.5” exhaust sufficient?
at 350 hp 2.5 is more than enough
I have a 19 5.0 F-150 with a Whipple, probably 600whp. I have catted long-tube headers, (4) 3" glass-packs everywhere I could fit them between a Magnaflow 3" dual in / dual out muffler. The truck with 5 mufflers, and high flow cats is finally reasonably quiet getting on it, and Idling, but is still loud as hell on start up. I'm wondering if my mostly straight through muffler set-up is restrictive, and would turbo mufflers in place of the 3" magnaflow X muffler quiet it down upon start-up without adding much restriction? I wish it was quieter during a cold start for my neighbors, but I want every ounce of wot power I paid for with the work I've done to the truck. Does high hp have to equate to excessive noise?? I know turbocharging would be the ultimate solution, but it's not happening on this daily driver of mine, lol.
NOISE AND HP DON'T HAVE TO BE RELATED-LOUDER OFTEN DOES NOT MEAN MORE POWER, A GOOD EXHAUST DROPS POWER VERY LITTLE (SOMETIMES NOT AT ALL)
@@richardholdener1727 Thank you for the response! I'm wondering if a pair of 3" turbo mufflers would finally quiet this thing down without adding much restriction to what I currently run as described above. I'd like to see a test with straight pipe vs same size straight through mufflers / glass-packs on a 500-700 hp engine to see back pressure and power difference.
Seems like long tube headers still make Power even with short Runner intake they make more difference with long long Runner intake but they still make more power than shorty headers almost all the time from what I seen from your channel and engine Masters
Have you ever tested the difference between a high flow "two into one" vs full dual? I would like to see that.
My big block K5 is going to have 2 into 1, long tube, 3" out the back...
Engine master's just did this test
@@indyrock8148 I can't find that test anywhere.
Link to it.
I wanna see the Y pipe vs X pipe! Can someone PLEASE do this!!
6:05 that’s what I was thinking.
Richard I'm putting on some 1 3/4 in long tubes from speed engineering on my L33 5.3 I'm planning to stay N/A w the BTR. NORRIS camshaft and TBSS. Intake swap w a few other supporting mods I'm debating exhaust setup would you run a true dual 3 in. X pipe, true dual 2.5 x pipe, or go w a dual x into a single 3 or 3.5 . planning to run muffler or mufflers w either setup just wanted to ask a man who knows if the true dual 3 in x pipe setup would be too much exhaust pipe diameter for my 5.3? Also debated running L.T.s dual 3 X crossover then reducing to 2.5 and running mufflers and tailpipe in a 2.5 in setup. In my mind I'd really like to keep it simple and run a true dual 3 in x pipe setup. North Maine Steve
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS TOO MUCH PIPE-BUT DUAL 2.5 WOULD BE ENOUGH FOR THAT 5.3L
@@richardholdener1727 thanks for the quick response appreciate your wisdom since the first 1/3 of my system is 3 inch should I just keep it all 3 inch to the tailpipe or neck it down to 2.5 after my 3 in x pipe . my headers and x pipe / crossover come as one kit which has led me to this exhaust debate. But you mister taught me I will gain low end w the 1 3/4 LT s. Vs the 1 7/8 LTs.
Could you do a video on the horsepower gains of flipping your pistons on a ls?
flipping pistons? To change the pin offset?
Wondering with those 1 7/8 headers on the LS3 maybe headers are too big?
LS3 has a weak exhaust port. Maybe 1 3/4 could have been optimum?
minimal difference in that change-we tested it
@@richardholdener1727 Lol yeah I'm sure you did. Thanks Richard 👍
Are long tubes headers worth any power on a pretty much stock 5.3?
View your engine as an air pump. A bigger cam will allow more air in. I can’t confirm but I’ve read on Internet forums that factory cast exhaust manifolds will support 500 hp before being a restriction. Long tube headers will add torque. Bang for buck is cam swap. However cam swap would compliment long tubes.
So I'm building a C3 LS. Any chance you could run a set of side pipes vs full exhaust some day.
I've tested side pipes on a Ford-powered Cobra-not great
Be interesting to see how much of a difference muffler type makes. Straight thru, chambered, offset flow. And what about placement? Post-header, halfway back, tail pipe area. U could get real complicated if u started getting into the different types of packing and interior mesh but that might b too much. Keep up the good work love learning from u 👍👍
Engine Masters did a muffler test
Have you ever tested Flowtech Afterburner headers?
I HAVE NOT TESTED THOSE THAT I CAN REMEMBER
Would a turbo/s cause a scavenging effect in the sense that there is a blade drawing exhaust if you're on part throttle and the turbo is still spooling down or up?
I guess what I'm trying to ask if this would on a track scenario where a car is going through a long corner or corner exit where the air flow is changing in the exhaust due to throttle modulation?
Sorry if the question I'm asking is unclear 😅
Besides that jumbled mess of mine another great Video 👌
it does not draw exhaust-exhaust causes it to spin
I think it would be cool to test without header extensions. I know of some people who have build their exhaust to accommodate their drag chassis and do a cool cut out at the fender. The need for 18” header extension is very underestimated.
we have done that test-the extension adds torque
Hey Richard and all you displacement junkies. 😆. I’m Putting on corvette style side pipes at 3 inch collectors and 1-3/4 pipes to the collectors and the stack pipe is 3 inch by 48”long. I’m also installing long tube headers on 5.3 l59 that is about the same configuration as the side pipes minus the 48”x3” long pipe. Lol but ya. The long tubes will be added additional tubing to meet up with the side pipes with the exception of a y pipe connected to the 3 inch piping from long tubes to connect to the side pipe. The y pipe is 3”single inlet x2” double outlets. That will connect to the side pipes crazy I know but more economical than having someone pipe the long tubes wit 1-3/4 piping to the side pipe collectors. Do the math. I’m still at 3 inches from the long tube collectors to the side pipes. But ya. They split up and rejoin at the side pipe collectors. Lol. Crazy but it’ll work. My biggest guess is the sound. Loud as hell or a good tone. I don’t know yet. Nothing is installed yet. To look at my side pipes click my pic for the review of my side pipes. Someone tell me if this overkill and I’m cutting my own throat for scavenging. I don’t think so. I should be ok.
how long are the primary turbes
Richard Holdener. Hey Richard. Thanks for replying. If you mean the tubes on the long tube headers , I don’t know. eBay didn’t show this in the pics. This setup for side pipes is just a configuration for one side of the dual exhaust system I’m building. The 3” collectors for the side pipes including the 1-3/4 tubes are a total length of 20 from tip to tip I just received the headers but had no time to really inspect what I got. I’m a over the road trucker so it was a grab n go when I got them. From header to side pipes isn’t going to take that much of tubing to connect them I’ve bought 3”x14inch flex pipe to help with the bending and to loosen up the system so it won’t break or crack anything. I can shorten the flex if needed. I’m thinking only maybe two sharp bends in the piping per header to connect them. It for a 2003 yukon
Richard Holdener primary tubes? On the side pipes!? 3”x48” long
How about a test running accessories?...running alt vs not running one, factory water pump vs electric water pump..
that video is already up
@@richardholdener1727 O-yea...alot of video's since that one...lol
I forgot about Hooker Headers it's been a long time
Way better than engine masters
A focus on test data rather than antics
@@GroovesAndLands I like both shows, but I like that Richard makes this information available to everyone for free instead of teasing episodes on CZcams and requiring a monthly subscription to watch them like Engine Masters does, I really don't like that. I also like how much more frequently he uploads compared to Engine Masters, sometimes they don't upload for well over a month.
Avery Alexander I finally subbed to motertrend. It’s worth it, there’s tons of good car content!
Oh my god I had to watch you ramble on the whole time thinking that I was going to hear different types of exhaust. Oh my god what a waste of my life I can’t get back. I just wanna know what it sounds like.