The Agenda Behind The Secrets of Hillsong
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- čas přidán 28. 05. 2024
- In this video I offer a concern about the "big bad Christianity" narrative that seems to be reflected in the recent documentary "The Secrets of Hillsong."
The first video referenced: • Pastor Reacts To ‘The ...
The second video referenced: • Let's Talk about The N...
The 2016 study referenced: www.deseret.com/faith/2021/5/...
The academic article referenced in this article: www.religjournal.com/pdf/ijrr1...
Truth Unites exists to promote gospel assurance through theological depth.
Gavin Ortlund (PhD, Fuller Theological Seminary) serves as senior pastor of First Baptist Church of Ojai.
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00:00 - Introduction
01:17 - The "Big Bad Christianity" Narrative
02:58 - Other CZcams Responses
04:53 - The Church's Social Reputation
06:33 - Deconstructing Faith
08:20 - Christianity is Good News for Justice
I'm genuinely so complimented you liked my video Gavin - many thanks for the shout out - I've appreciated your work a tonne from afar for a while now.
(Not quite sure why I sound like I'm on a bit helium though - must be CZcams's sampling software!)
great video! Thanks for letting me employ it here, and so sorry for if the audio got warped -- I didn't notice that, my bad. Keep up the great work.
@@TruthUnites Many thanks!
As an Australian associate pastor with the wider global Assemblies of God, I have to say that the "big bad Christianity" theme is sadly very common in secular Australian media documentaries. There are obviously issues with Hillsong, but they all stem from the fact that their churches are built as religious entertainment businesses. Do you know of a secular entertainment business that does not have these kinds of problems? I've never heard of one. If Christianity is to move on from the shock of these revelations, we need less Sunday morning entertainment and more sound, biblical teaching and discipleship. I am happy to be part of a local church that strongly emphasises both.
"Religious entertainment businesses" is a term that sums up most evangelical churches in America at the moment. Thank you for the gift of this useful phrase!
I had the same impression. This Lentz guy stood on stage, told some nice stories and every now and then put in the word God or Jesus. But I didn't see a lot of Christian things about the sermons. Probably it might have been edited that way on purpose, who knows. Still seemed like a entertainment show and not much more.
I'm a member of a local Assembly of God here in the Philippines and in fact my grandfather is a pastor of the church.
I have become well aware of the damaging practices of big churches out there, especially when they point out about the "Prosperity Gospel" and we do condemn it.
We do not like the idea of a religious gathering turned into business, it violates the true Gospel.
Aye, we're Pentecostals but as conservative ones we tend to focus more on getting the Gospel of Christ preached to people.
Of course on some ocassions we also talk about the benefits of blessings, especially financial blessing, it is not however the central message of the Gospel.
Christ died for us that we be saved from our sins by His precious blood which He shed upon the Cross to reconcile us to the Heavenly Father.
Thank you for your patience and God bless you.
It’s impossible to watch Netflix, or anything on TV without spotting the “Big bad Christianity” narrative everywhere. Feels like they go out of their way to smuggle that in to their stories.
I thought so too but was astonished to see a really interesting documentary about the holy sepulcher on Disney+ (of all places). Really recommend that one.
100%
it's probably because Christianity has historically been both very big and very bad
Amen. An atheist asked me how do I reconcile the problem of evil. I told him Christians have, by far, the best answer: the Gospel. Of course, he completely ignored the answer. 😐
if he's an atheist then evil to him is just his opinion as atheists have no objective standard to differentiate good from evil.
He wasn't looking for truth, he was looking to prove his Atheism.
I see no reason as to why you expect a response, you were asked a question and you gave an answer. The atheist was under no obligation to tell you what he thought about your answer.
As an atheist all I can say is that I am a total loss as to how your answer explains why an all loving all powerful god should grant the gift of virtual immunity from cancer to the babies of the naked mole rat whilst simultaneously standing idly by watching human babies die in agony from cancer.
That's one of the reasons for my Christian faith, that God gives us hope in the midst of evil and the strength to withstand it. For that reason, I don't know how atheists cope.
@@downenout8705 Well damn, I wish I could fly and see ultraviolet light, but God didn't give that to humans.
Besides, most Cancer is the result of Man playing God by creating toxic forever chemicals and microplastics.
My wife watched this documentary and came away with a similar feeling. Sure, it's about Hillsong on the surface. But increasingly it tries to paint religion as the root cause of the problems. Thanks for the video!
I thought sort of similarly about the show about the Duggars. Many of the gripes were legit against the Duggars and against that church movement. But then they'd show someone with a pro-life sign and talk about parents raising their children to grow up with certain values and encouraging some to get into politics to effect change in some laws. And then they'd play creepy music and portray it as some sort of nefarious conspiracy. It was laughable. Half of the documentary was legit and interesting. The other half looked deceptive in order to promote an agenda to make conservative Christians in general look bad. They just lumped too many things together. And frankly, I was expecting a little bit more of a bombshell.
They even managed to throw in Trump for good measure from what I read. As much guilt by association as possible.
@@TheEngineerd yeah, a little bit. There was a lot of interesting stuff in there. But something tells me that they wanted there to be a huge bombshell and they just couldn’t find one. So they had to insinuate a lot of other crap.
So true, I was just about to comment this exact thing in reference to the shiny happy people documentary. It honestly just felt like an anti-christian documentary then anything more scandalous, HULU is extremely predictable at the moment....smh 🤦♂️
I thought the same thing. And I say this as someone who doesn't tend to identify strongly with either the "Christian Right" or the secular Left.
The insuination that programatic indoctrination for political ends is nefarious... _when done by_ conservative Christians and homeschooling. Just the sheer lack of self-awareness is breathtaking. Huh, a major media outlet with blatant political biases feer-mongering homeschooling so as to endorse a government-run education system _also_ with obvious political agendas... But no, you see, it's those wacky homeschoolers that are dangerous for brainwashing their kids (as opposed to someone else's?)
It's totally fine showing the religious causes of political activism.
Glad to see I'm not the only one who keeps up with the Whaddo You Meme channel. He has great commentary on culture.
I live near the original Hillsong church and never been a member but have had many friends who are over the years. If first visit in the 80s when there was only about 200 people at the service, it was big but not a mega church back then. I have also had friends who were on staff and or attended their Bible college. I have my issues with several of their teachings but there are also lots of good people there. Also it is interesting to note that while secular media are often negative on Christianity when the Sydney media does something on church or Christianity their cameras go to three places, the Anglican Cathedral, the Roman Catholic Cathedral and Hillsong.
Thanks again Gavin. I follow Christ. And as we all know, every church, every denomination, every follower of Christ has at least some error. Especially my own self. Nevertheless, with all my error, this 70 year old christian follows,
... the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
Galatians 2:20
Praise God forevermore,
and his Son.
I agree 100%. My wife and I always go into any news on christians provided by media but especially secular media with huge skepticism. Anything Satan can do to tear down believers and potential converts. We experienced first hand friends of our using secular attack articles against good Christ loving pastors just because they disagreed with their theology. Got to be hesitate about how we treat one another especially in this pagan culture of ours.
I'm German and basically on every Christmas or sometimes Easter, some secular newspaper magazines in Germany run stories like, "was Jesus even real?" or nonsense like that. Might be an attack. I never read it. And if I ever did, I laughed. Best to avoid newspapers and magazines altogether in my opinion. Simply as an act of mental hygiene.
I agree with you. But it’s strange, I know 3 believers who came out of spiritually & emotionally abusive Pentecostal churches & each of them found the documentary deeply comforting. Even though each of them saw the series’ clear anti-Christian message they still appreciated it. It’s like the show reassured them they weren’t alone in their journey.
Should never let go of Jesus. Hold onto him he is the only lifeline.
This was well done. I'm not a fan of Hillsong, Brian Houston, or Carl Lentz. When Oprah interviewed Lentz I was all over that. Whar I found best about this video though was the pointing out of what so many miss and are easily deceived by. I can't think of the word for it but Gavin described it as the ominous music, dark lighting, etc. Look at the pictures and caricatures that people are presented as on TV, Magazines, Memes, etc. all the time. We of all people as Christians should be able to see thru that and see it for what it is.
Thanks for the analysis! Now I don't have to watch it! 😋
Also, thank you for simply quoting other CZcamsrs, rather than copying them. That shows humility, and also reduces CZcams redundancy.
Alisa Childers suggests that Christians use the term "reformation", as opposed to the term "deconstruction" which is when a Christian doubts to the point of losing their faith.
That's helpful. I was never sure what "deconstruction" even means. Only leaving a certain denomination or losing one's faith?
I wish mine would have been deconstruction, but sadly it was destruction for me. Until recently when I returned to Jesus.
So many great takes from you Gavin, God bless
The documentary was a hit piece on Christianity and Carl Lentz should be ashamed of himself. Not to mention the PR image transformation they gave him with the long hair. And he had the nerve to say the serenity prayer trying to be all innocent like he didn’t know or couldn’t control what happened with the documentary. He’s a fake and an opportunist period.
Mr. Screwtape got an award for orchestrating the deconstruction scenes of this documentary
I deconstructed from Catholicism into a WoF/Latter Rain church, then into a suspicious deism. My greatest regret was being angry at God all those years...my heart sunk when I heard those folks talking about the loss of their faith.
Early Christianity was very Catholic - all about the Mass. That’s why Protestants ignore it.
Why were you angry all that time in your life? Or are you still?
What is suspicious deism?
@@fantasia55 wrong
@@Stigma-ba115 Once Saved Always Saved was invented in the 16th century by John Calvin.
YES! What do you Meme in Truth Unites! Let's Go!!!!
Your videos helped me a lot!
Yeah i had the same reaction. It was a hatchet job on Christianity.
What’d you expect from atheists? Fairness?
It’s a hatchet job on a horrible church, that they went easy on. Wake up
The Duggar Documentary had a similar issue. Exposing a problem, then characterizing all Christians as the same.
Cuz most are
Excellent analysis 👍
God bless you greatly bro
This is Truth and Balance 💯
Well stated & intelligent perspective.
Thank you Gavin 🤝
so helpful -thanks
As a historian, I enjoy your podcasts. Your prestations on the popes and the early church are factful. Have you ever thought about debating Taylor Marshall? It would be an interesting program.
Thanks Gavin.
@whatdoyoumeme and truth unites universes collide! I love it.
Just finished watching it 2 days ago. The issues that I saw: the main criminal charges are never properly addressed and the women who were the actual victims never really had a voice in the documentary (in the case of the incident in the hotel room it wasn't even plainly stated whether that was simple infidelity or anything more sinister happened). So the documentary made basically the same mistake they accuse Hillsong of. If they couldn't get interviews with the actual victims (apart from one!), why even bother making the documentary at all?
BTW - I don't really think Lentz was relatable at all. He always seemed shady, putting on a show. Nothing about him seemed honest.
Apart from that - scandals like that happen in all institutions once they grow larger than is good for them.
I don't really wanna know how much abuse, etc, happens in sports, homes for orphans, etc.
Still not a fan of Hillsong or any mega church. But they don't exist here in Germany anyway. "Free churches" as they're called here, are mostly smaller assemblies with a few hundred people. And they are only loosely connected to each other.
Amen! Thank you for using wisdom to look at this with open eyes!
Dr. Ortlund, can you do a review of Rev. Jedediah Gullaman's book "An Apologetic for Nimrods and Atheists" - he's a Calvinist pastor and comedian, and this book makes an easy-to-read yet rigorous and Biblical case for presuppositionalism
I like Jinger Duggar's term of "detangling" instead if deconstructing faith. She's discerning true doctrine vs false teaching from Gothard.
Former IBLP. But I hate the word disentangle. There was nothing in IBLP that was true Christianity. Many like my parents were true Christians and got lost in some lies. But for is kids raised in it, we had to deconstruct to find Jesus.
It also for me personally feels like the pain and struggle I went through to find Jesus is not valued by Christians.
Good points
Thanks!
You talk about deconstruction as a way of refinement which I agree with. I think deconstruction isn't the right word though. Jinger Duggar used the term disentangling in her book Becoming Free Indeed and I think it's a more hopeful term.
I have found that deconstruction, at its core, is a deeply westernized, postmodern (obviously, Derrida and his philosophy of deconstruction heavily influenced postmodern thought), and hyper-individualistic endeavor. It is rooted in the discomfort we have for the radical call of being a disciple of Jesus. To be willing to give up our own will is not easy. And from this we find excuses (at worst) or reasons (at best) why faith is nothing more than a fools folly. So when churches hurt us, which they tend to do, we abandon the whole system of faith, not because we deeply believe that Christianity is false, but in reality we do not want to address our own deep seeded problems that have contributed (or not contributed) to the perversion of the Christian Community. It's much easier to place blame than to admit our own faults. So, like most deconstructionists and growing atheists...we use deconstruction as an excuse, in essence, to not feel or think.
Yes, I find some of these deconstruction stories very bizarre. The whole church could go off into sin or hurt me , but I know God is real and He has been speaking to me for years . I could not doubt His existence if I wanted to. Well… I could kind of if I wanted to go back to sin and self government by choosing to an evil heart of unbelief and turning back. I tend to think with some people they can’t be saved and are just identifying as Christian and lean that way intellectually. Others may be saved but we very immature in their faith and don’t know God well enough yet. Others it’s just an excuse to go back to the world , I’ve seen it happen when a pastor falls morally or a church splits, but sadly their faith and security was misplaced in a pastor or a community.
Amen. It kind of shows their root was not in Christ and his word but more the community. Which is sad
1:26 Yes! I haven’t seen this one but I saw something similar happen with the Duggar doc. At the end it seemed to conflate the views of that cult with all of conservative Christianity 🙄
Very balanced view and thoughtful response as always Gavin
Deconstruction is just PC way of saying Demolition. If correction would be a better word.
A lot of churches have a similar setup from the way Hillsong sets up church. Many of the interviews do come from the gripes of the few, instead of the majority. As bad as this scandal is, my hope is that God restores Hillsong
Every time a video defending Christianity as a whole comes out when the secular world talks about the hurt and pain different sects of Christianity has inflicted comes out... it just speeds up the deconstruction process for every questioning Christian. As an athiest... please keep making videos like this. This kind of defense oozes insecurity... listen to the podcast Rise and Fall of Mars Hill for a good way to respond to widespread church scandal.
You speak the truth
Let a church without sin cast the first stone at another. Sadly there are always members of any church who will cast many stones at other churches. Better to spread the Gospel message and not worry too much about what other churches are doing or saying. Besides, the the"big bad Christianity" idea is one approach the evil one would use to pitch one church against another to destroy both.
The New Testament explicitly commands pointing out and avoiding false teachers and prophets, in almost every single book.
@@ludwigamadeushaydn706 That is true but we are discussing churches here not individuals. Within each and every church there are many individuals who are false teachers and prophets. Does that mean we must avoid each and every church? Of course not. Being in fellowship with other believers is a good thing and in fact we are commanded by Jesus to do so. However, one must focus on the Word of God and not the words of man, which all churches struggle with, some more than others.
What is good about Hillsong NYC?
@@mrbillinsf I didn't say it was good necessarily. I was alluding to the fact that all churches have their faults - none are perfect. Those who promote their own church above all others are simply being deluded and only ever cause division even with others in the same church who accept the fact there is no perfect church here on earth run by man. We are commanded to love each other regardless of which church we attend, if any.
There are parallels with this treatment and the Duggers documentary: shiny, happy people. Which was really a pro deconstruction video. I’d like to get your take on that as well.
I haven't lost faith in Jesus and I have others who also believe that I meet and talk to but we will not be returning to any church who teaches that adults hitting children is love or that spanking is discipline. It's absurd for those who say Jesus bore their sins in his flesh yet still teach and practice this. As if hitting butts opens ears to hear God. I believe there are many of us who believe in Jesus but don't meet in temples nor appeal to the state for recognition and permission to give charity too.
Thanks brought concerns up to last pastor and he brought up ppl who complained about this new music were wrong and to worship anyway, that its for God whether you like the music or not. No! I'm leaving cuz I don't see music ministry changing with the new younger pastor. Glad I didn't join this church. Most don't see a problem with this music, but I do. Maybe it's cuz I'm less musical and pay attention to lyrics more? Worship music does matter especially when there's no corporate prayer, confession , or rituals!
Thank you for your words of truth and companssion here.
I chose not to watch the rest of the doccie for precisely the reasons you stated. I think Karl is playing to the gallery-again
You are such an even-keel speaker.
The thumbnail reminded me of Mr Horse from Ren and Stimpy.
“No, sir, I didn’t like it.”
This is people that claim to be Christians doing crazy things and blaming it on Jesus isn't ok
Luke 14:24
Who are the ones who were first invited, but are no longer allowed to participate in the feast
On another subject, when and why did the Orthodox Church allow praying to saints and Mary. Was it before Constantine, and could it be to win over the Romans who practiced worshipping other gods?
@thekingofthings2002 Don't you think Gavin has the right to answer the question if he wants to and not you. If you would understand why I'm asking this question, you would offer guidance than a smart allec response.
The eastern churches didn't go into schism until the 11th century, so their beliefs and practices for the first 1000 years of Christianity are virtually the same as the rest of the Church. I think the earliest archaeological evidence for calling on the intercession of the saints is from the markings in the catacombs during the early persecutions. But the strongest evidence is the mass, both in the west and east, where the saints are mentioned in the liturgy from the earliest times of the Church. The "why" is because the Church is the body of Christ and the new commandment the Lord gave us is to "love one another as I have loved you." Part of that love is praying and ministering to others in the body. Traditionally, the Church has understood herself as living in three worlds: The Church Triumphant consists of those who are now glorified with Christ in Heaven; the Church Suffering are those who are being purified in Purgatory on their way to Heaven; and the Church Militant are those of us on earth still engaged in battle with the world, the flesh, and the devil. As the body of Christ, united to each other in Him, we can not only love and help one another on earth but there is also a spiritual commerce between those of us still here and those who have passed on. The saints in Heaven can intercede for us before God as we see John depict in Revelation, and the living can offer prayer and sacrifice for the dead (in Purgatory) as we see in Maccabees.
Thank you for your input into this.
I was raised in and served as a missionary in the samctificatiin, holiness, narrow-minded Evangelical form of Christianity. Fact is, it is dark and extremely disfunctional. Fact is many of its leaders are malignant narcissists who use fear of hell to control, manipulate and use people. They justify their cruel abuse with Holy Scripture and call it "tough love". They are not just indifferent to their victims' suffering, they take the opportunity to punish their victims even more for expressing their emotional, psychological, physical pain when a person is no longer capable of hiding it. They are merciless. Hundreds of thousands of us carry the scars and have C-PTSD because of them. Hillsong is but one of many mega and ultra small Evangelical Christian cults (Westboro Baptist for instance) in America that are dark.
We are told in Holy Scripture to come reason together and so we can rightly divide the Word of YAHUAH ( God)
This is why Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Religion is so paramount.
We must be free to search out the Truth which Satan is always trying to hide from US. 🙏💯🔥🔥🔥
Brian Houston yesterday was found not guilty
Yeah I wouldn’t expect anything different from the media tbh. Shame on this Hilllsong guy for being apart of it.
PAY ATTENTION:
if i go into a "church"
And it is built like an amphitheater or classroom,
I have to be of a particular mental slant to get ANYTHING out of that.
When I walk into the place of Christian Worship
I am confronted with beauty that relays GOD'S message to me.
I venerate an Icon of Jesus before I take my place.
It is ALL about Jesus as we see HIM in the New Testament.
I venerate an Icon of Theotokos, and I am confronted with the Truth of The Incarnation of GOD'S Word.
I am reminded why I am there and who Jesus IS.
I SEE all around me, Saints and I am reminded of thier Holy Story.
The Deacon calls us to REMEMBER the Holy Virgin BECAUSE of the Child she carried and raised.
The Deacon calls us to remember The Saints and our direct connection to them.
The Deacon calls us to commend each other and our selves, for all of our Life, Unto Christ our GOD.
The Altar flows with inscense and prayers.
And the next few hours, the congregation is held in direct communal prayer, broken only by the reading of Holy Scripture and a NON Rhetorically delivered Homily.
Prayers are resumed.
Culmination is found in the partaking of the blood and body of Our Lord Jesus Christ.
....no Amphitheater or Stadium or classroom can match this.
Places where Glory is given to one on a Stage.
Or at the Podium.
In front of the Band or the chalkboard.
Striving to engage intellect or invoke an emotional experience is of THIS world.
No.
That is not the way.
I finished the documentary and, sadly, there’s a lot of gossip in it. Yes, Hillsong is not a genuine church ministry, but at the same time, many of the accusations against the former associates have not been confirmed as true.
To give an example, there were allegations presented of systemic racism in Hillsong, based on the lack of black leaders at the pulpit. I didn’t buy into the supporting testimonials, because those were circumstantial conditions that didn’t happen from lack of caring. The church was already diverse without non-white leaders at the pulpit and Carl Lentz was an avid proponent of pushing for diversity in the church. Should we push for diversity at the pulpit as well? Absolutely. That being said, we also need to make sure the candidates are qualified for the pulpit, regardless of their ethnicity.
Another fallacy I found at the end of the documentary was the narrative suggesting that Christianity was the root cause of the downfall of Hillsong, and that isn’t true. Hillsong was the root cause of its downfall. If a church doesn’t have a genuine mission to reach people for the Gospel, then it’s not going to have a viable cause to exist and that reality is showing up on Hillsong.
💯
Exactly how I felt watching Amazon's "shiny happy people"
It's obvious Brian Houston is a bit of a narcissist.......
He taught Carl Lentz to do the same thing....
Carl Lentz was a willing victim
Very promiscuous, very relatable... a true modern "rebel Jesus" 🤣🤣🤣🤣
What a hero.
People whose faith was based on man made church or falling pastors and not on their personal revelation and relationship with Jesus will unfortunately fall from their faith because it wasn’t based on Christ but man. Jesus clearly warned us about all this taking place in and out of church so when we witness it happen it should strengthen our faith in His eternal word. That being said we should pray that we are never stumbling block to anyone to come to the living God. That is the main problem with sin in the church that it puts stumbling block to people whose faith is weak and we are sternly warned by Jesus not to do that. Our lives should bring people closer to Jesus.
Exactly what I felt, but I wasn't surprised.
Sensible, balanced analysis.
It's sometimes better to just keep quiet.
Is it not?
Good insights, and a great conclusion. Thank you!
You can’t be serious
@@mrbillinsf his insights, not the shows. His conclusion, not the shows, to be clear lol. Otherwise we are having a very different conversation
I find it sad that such "Christian" Music like this leads so many astray.
In fairness the lamb analogy is disgusting. God’s gotta break your leg like an animal.
I didn't like the documentary because of the emphasis on social justice. Also I always expect these secular documentaries to malign the Church of God. This is what false teachers do to the reputation of all of Christianity. When I wasn't saved I would look at prosperity teachers and think the whole thing is a joke. There was an attempt to smear Christianity as a whole.
Consider it a testing of fire
I left Christianity because of a narc for Jesus like this guy Carl . I am hurt so much . I am gone period
Because it’s true.
I don't follow or listen to hill song music. I believe we are in the days Jesus spoke about as 'birth pangs'.
Dr. Gavin, I just wrote to you. May you please check your email. 🙏
People become church leaders that like many other jobs but they should NOT be in the position to start with
its a wrong choice for them many should be in other areas of employment many do leave and are doing well in business or the entertainment industry where Karl lentz probably should be for example he chose the wrong profession he like others made an error pastoring is not for them.
Thank you for your fair assessment!
I'm baffled at how people take the shows that bring to light the breakdown of a massive church and turn it into the entire church body. Yes, the film makers probably aren't Christians. But that doesn't mean the church/pastors shouldn't be exposed. The fact that some of the people involved have left Christianity all together is sad but also often is true. That is why it is imperative to have churches be held accountable, hopefully way sooner than Hillsong so less damage is done. If they had a group making sure of this, maybe just maybe we wouldn't have the amount of problems in the Church as we do. Unfortunately these mega churches make so much money that it is almost impossible not to fail. It is easier for a camel to enter the kingdom of heaven than a rich man.
6:40
If the church would deal with this kind of immorality and false teaching, then the world would not have the opportunity to manipulate things for their own purposes.
I deconstructed my presuppositionalism lmao
The outro music though …..🔥
I didn’t see it as an attack on the universal church as a whole. There were parts that do but I think it was an attack on Hillsong that is justified. I don’t see it as an attack on the Christian church because I don’t believe Hillsong is Christian. To me this was one part of the world attacking another part of the world that was posing as a Christian church. This documentary could not prescribe the true answer because the creators aren’t Christian. I didn’t expect them to.
I have not watched the documentary, but have experience of a cult, with funnily enough Australian roots. RCA/RCI later changed to CAI. The hard realisation after many years in it and finally "escaping the web of lies" as someone put it, is that it was never Christian to begin with...all good works they did were for show and at the expense of "members" on many destructive levels. Satan can appear as a angel of light. Cults are nothing new. It is strong encouragement to know your Bible and not be deceived by "love bombing", gaining praise and then being "rebuked" for trivial things. Control methods that trap you. I read Alice Chrnaloger's Twisted Scriptures. Documentaries pretty much sensationalise per automatic. Even the one on our cult to some degree, but truthfully not much. The object being to shut them down, fullstop. The victims are real and often drawn in young. It needs exposed as you say. I educate my kids of cult like behaviour. I know His grace now and we are the lucky ones.
This is a great video Gavin, I agree 100% with what you said, but the other side of the coin that if criticisms are justified because of even a hint of immorality or financial malfeasance, then the secular criticism is justified. The church must be real and holy, living a secular life while claiming to be a Christian is hypocrisy. “Walk the talk”!
First of all the documentary was done by a secular group. You can’t expect for them to bring light to christianity. You are talking about kindness and grace but I didn’t hear you give any to Carl Lentz. The problem with church people is they think they are above everyone else in morality and that’s why when they fail as any normal human sinner the fall is magnified. I like that they gave some human perspective to Carl’s failures. He is not better or holier than anyone else just because he was a pastor. What I took from this documentary is the brainwashing people go through in churches. That’s why many leave the church because their eyes were never on God to begin with.
Didn't know you were a PhD. Maybe I was skipping the beginning of your videos
Evolutionary physiology?
Animal ancestors?
"Except a man be Born Again he cannot see the Kingdom of God." John 3:3 ...The bigger picture shows us many who claim to be Christian, are simply not saved. 📖 Tares amongst the Wheat...🙏
This thing being in association with Vanity Fair is already a giant red flag. Hillsong has legit heresies and problems one can point out, you don't need to reach for problems where there is no evidence of misconduct.
Brother you gotta do something about your close up shots especially with those hands.I always feel like you're gonna slap me or something. Other than that always love your insight
The whole thing was just an anti-Christian piece filled with bias.
Please stop using a wide angle lens. You're too close to the lens. Your giant hand waiving is very distracting
Hillsong has demons 👽👽👽 following every one of their songs.
Hillsong is so bad that you just need to watch their output to know what's wrong.
Jesus said: “many will come in my name............”
This video is just copium. It’s obviois because an appeal is made to the good of religion in general. It is talking about Hillsong with CHRISTIANS in the video defending Christianity while criticizing Hillsong. If you can't handle other perspectives also being representated that's your problem.
I am an atheist.
I am also a secular humanist.
I base MY morality on wellbeing and human flourishing.
I am a neurotypical empathetic homosapien and like many other social species I have an innate sense of the five pillars of morality.
I live the one life that I know I have and ask or want nothing more and when I die, if I have left this world just a little better for those who follow me, then I will call that life good.
It is simply profoundly intellectually dishonest for this Christian to assert that I am someone that I know that I am not.
Frankly this assassination of my character says more about the insecurities of the Christian than the atheist who says nothing more than "I am not convinced that your god exists".
I would ask anyone reading this to remember even if you agree that every hurtful word said about me is true, your beliefs about me tell you nothing about the truth of 1 Corinthians 15: 14.
hello, thanks for commenting. the argument about nihilism isn't that atheists are bad people, but that atheism as a worldview has no ontological grounding for objective morality or values like love and justice.
@@TruthUnites I believe that I have been absolutely clear how I "ground" my morality and from this "grounding" I can "value" concepts such as "love" and "justice".
So instead of constructing an asinine strawman, perhaps you would like to address, how "grounding" my morality on wellbeing and human flourishing makes me a nihilist.
As to objective morality, I can state that slaughtering babies and the unborn is objectively not beneficial to their wellbeing and flourishing and as such, by MY standard is objectively immoral.
So I say that the slaughter of babies and the unborn by Yahweh/Jesus by burning alive in Genesis 19: 24-25; putting to the sword in 1 Samuel 15: 3 and drowning in Genesis 7: 21 is objectively immoral.
So my question to you is a simple one, is the slaughter of babies and the unborn objectively or subjectively immoral, in your god breathed moral system.
Let me be clear however, there is absolutely nothing that you can say that will convince me that these acts of depravity are "all loving acts of moral perfection".
If this makes me a nihilist deserving of extreme eternal violence, then so be it, for I will never willingly sacrifice my humanity on the alter of such a deity.
I suggest you go read Matthew 7: 1-5, before you judge the character of atheists.
@@downenout8705y what standard that human wellbeing and flourishing are good? Your "ground" is subject to your will.
@@Bruno-ov9ew Correct it's my standard, that I thankfully share with an ever increasing number like minded neurotypical empathetic people.
Unfortunately I can do nothing about people like you who don't consider wellbeing and human flourishing to be important and instead hold Psalm 137: 9 to be good and true.
@@downenout8705 not that human wellbeing isn't important, but, by what standard it's good. What's your metric to say that human wellbeing is better than anything else? Is human flourishing better than others animals wellbeing? If someone else holds a believed that animals wellbeing are more important, by what standard would you denied it?