The museum that never was
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- čas přidán 15. 07. 2024
- Melbourne is known as a centre of arts and culture, including the iconic Melbourne Museum in Carlton Gardens. But there were plenty of other plans for how and where to build it - find out more in today's video!
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State Library Victoria - history: guides.slv.vic.gov.au/slvhist...
State Library Victoria: The changing face of a Melbourne institution: www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-2...
My website: philipmallis.com
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SOURCES AND CREDITS
philam.github.io/videonotes/u...
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I acknowledge the traditional owners of the lands on which this video was filmed, the Wurundjeri Woi Wurrung and Boonwurrung people. I pay respects to Elders past, present and emerging and their extensive historical connection to land, water and country.
You left out the line "..and that's why the Melbourne Exhibition Centre is colloquially known as Jeff's Shed." We were promised a museum and ended up with a shed.
TBF, Jeff’s shed is an impressive exhibition building. No internal columns across the whole span!
That's a fun fact @effkay ! Had never noticed.
Philip ... being a 58 yo Melbournian, I greatly appreciate your videos. In my opinion, Premier Kennett's choice to use the designated Museum site on the banks of the Yarra for the new Exhibition Centre (Jeff's Shed) was a loss .... especially considering that a ferry service would have joined & integrated with Scienceworks!
very true. imagine how much nicer the site of the exhibition centre & across the road would be
Possibly, but remember Kennett was taking hard decisions attempting to retrieve Victoria from near bakruptcy of Cain Kirner debarkle.
Thank you, glad you enjoyed it!
They could put in a ferry at Scienceworks now if the wanted but it would still be economically unviable. It’s the sort of impractical things architects do all the time with public buildings. Which family has the time and money to pay for a visit to two attractions in one day linked by slow expensive ferries?
I'm going to disagree with this. The MCEC powers hundreds of thousands of people into the city from around Australia and the world, resulting in stays and spending and helps to create the food scene the city is rightfully known for.
I remember loving the old Museum when I was a kid in the early 80s, It had so much atmosphere and history itself. I have never been able to vibe with the "new" museum but I appreciate why new facilities were needed, it just has no soul
Same here. I totally agree, too.
Sydney Museum is still rather like the old Melbourne museum. My trouble with the 'new' melbourne museum is that most of its vast collection is in storage, little change od displays and little reason to go very often.
I can remember the old Museum in Swanston Street, It was great! So creepy and old but it had great character and was full of little nooks and rooms that were great fun to look for when you were a kid; it was like being an explorer. When the new design for the South bank museum was released, everyone was very excited and pleased- it was going to be a true cultural hub with The Arts, Music and Science all in one precinct. Then that maggot Kennett got in power and did corrupt back room deals with the white shoe brigade ( as these crooks were called) so instead of a cultural hub we got the Crown Septic Tank and Jeffs Shed. Instead of enlightenment + learning we got a corrupt pit where people gave their $$$ to billionaires and ruined their lives and a vast souless expanse that is barely used nowadays. As for the Carlton Museum, it's pretty soulless. Like a shopping centre with fossils. The rainforest is nice tho.
The maggot also introduced an admission fee to get into the museum. It was always free before then.
I wouldn’t mind so much if the displays were changed periodically, but there are parts that have not changed in over thirty years eg the Cathy Freeman sprint test at Spotswood. I remember helping out on my son’s primary school excursion. He turned forty last year.
Spot on!
@@tuppyglossop222and yet we’ve had Labor in power for 23 years (less 3) since. Let me know when you think they’ll get round to replacing the exhibits - in fact it’s operated under Labor longer than Liberal. Or did you forget the last 23 years?
@@xr6lad Sorry, I wasn’t aware that the exhibits were organised by the political parties. I’ll take it up with my local member.
@@tuppyglossop222 the same bloke who wrote the copy for those 80’s Saba furniture showroom ads, that admission was free. 🤣
I remember going to the Museum in Russell Street as a child in the late 70s on a school excursion. As someone commented, it was dark and dusty with displays of insects and butterflies, everything you’d imagine a museum to be. I remember a large glass display containing Phar Lap’s embalmed body in the foyer. Then of course they had to change the name of the city loop station from the lovely ‘Museum’ to the mundane ‘Melbourne Central’.
The new museum shares the Carlton gardens with the world heritage listed Exhibition building which at the time was very run down and had had quite a lot of alterations and unsympathetic annexes added. The best part (perhaps the only good part) of putting the new museum behind the Exhibition building is that as part of the works they completely restored the Exhibition buildings and removed the annexes.
Being a frequent visitor to the old Museum of Victoria back in the day, I was looking forward to the new Museum. So disappointed when plans were shelved (at the last hour) in favour of an Exhibition Center & Casino.
The current museum building in carlton gardens was also designed to mirror the Exhibition building opposite. That's why it has two wings branching off from entrance in a T-shape. It also approximately is the same length, excluding the awnings. The highest point of the museum building, the awning over the Forest Gallery, is the same height as the peak of the spire on the Exhibition building.
There is also a model of the proposed Southbank building in the Mini Mega Model exhibition inside the museum
As with so much that happened during the Kennet era, the plans were well and truly "Jeffed"!
You know we DIDN’T have the money. You know WHY Labor sold the State Bank. Seems with Labor today people like you have learnt nothing b
I loved the old Melbourne Museum. It was dusty and grungy, it had dead insects in some of the displays and had a randomness to it that I enjoyed. The Planetarium was intimate and pretty good for its time as well. But of course it was ultimately completely inadequate. I don't mind the location of the new museum, it's okay. I'm overdue for another visit. I want to see the Triceratops.
Hi Philip, thank you, your videos are definitely among the best & most informative on CZcams.
They bring back so many memories & explain the quirks that make Melbourne so unique & interesting for us locals & non-locals alike.
My recollection at the time was that most Melbournians would have much preferred the plan for the partially constructed new museum beside the Yarra River to have gone ahead.
Unfortunately with the change of State government, we got “Jeff’s Shed” instead.
Another case of development of public land, that was meant to be an impressive building & adjoining riverfront parkland was overtaken by something far more commercial, business orientated & boring.
Also a huge part of what was beautiful parkland, to the north of the old Exhibition Building, was subsequently lost as it was overtaken by the building of the new Museum & IMAX theatre in its current location.
I never used to like the Melbourne CBD. It is noisy and rowdy and untidy at some places. I however always loved history. So thanks to your channel, I am now able to appreciate the historic landmarks near where I work and I can see those building through a new lenses.
I believe one of the reasons for the move of the museum was with the opening of the casino, people were worried that parents would drop off their children at the museum leave them there while the parents went to the casino.
Excellent research video Philip. As a kid I frequently visited the Melbourne Museum at the back of 'the Melbourne Library. I've since been to 'Jeff's shed' and Science Works. In my opinion, Kennett has a lot to answer for.
Better asking questions to the government before his, which is why all of these hard decisions were made.
Least of all saving us from debt. Another one with amnesia about a near bankrupt state, no money to spend, endless strikes (conveniently forget the train and tram strikes), the Cain gov telling people not to worry about Pyramid Building Society and keep their money in, which then promptly collapsed with their money, selling the State Bank as it was about to collapse under debt?
I remember going to the original museum as a child with my grandmother and my prep class. I remember Museum Station, and it was still called that by Melburnians for quite some time after it was renamed, just as Southern Cross Station is still called Spencer Street Station by some people. Despite being a teenager at the time, I don't recall all the back and forth with the new museum site, but as soon as you dropped Jeff Kennett's name I knew what had held it up the most. 20 years after I went as a child, I took my own children to the new Melbourne Museum. Damn expensive place to go, which is unfortunate. It would be appreciated by many more people if it wasn't $15 to get in.
Jeff Kennett was responsible for much of the open space in Melbourne being lost to development; Much of the public open spaces that made Victoria "The Garden State" ended up being sold to developers in a move intended to ease the debt incurred by the previous Kirner inherited Labor Government. I remember, at the time, there was opposition to the Museum being built on the site and the loss of the gardens.
There was similar loss of open space to Melbourne's north with the Bundoora and Macleod psych hospitals close, demolished and sold to property developers to turn into private housing and the Polaris shopping centre.
To be honest, in my opinion the new Melbourne Museum is a wasted opportunity which seems to curate it's collection in a side show carnival presentation; who remembers the white hall of dead birds at the new site?
I remember their was a fair bit of opposition to resiting the Museum of Victoria in the Carlton Gardens. The opposing side argued against this saying that it would detract from the Royal Exhibition Buildings which were close by. Another opposing argument centred on the loss of Parkland which didn't have much credability as most of the foot print of the new building would come from utilising land used at the time as a car park for Royal Exhibition Building Patrons.
It might have been better if there was some architectural connection between the two buildings or even a separation by trees and garden rather than a swathe of barren gravel and concrete paving.
Outstanding research Philip. It also gives us an insight into the gross inefficiencies of government. It's amazing that anything gets done.
You are right. When I was a teenager in the 60s there was a Four Corners program regarding where to construct Sydney's badly needed second airport. It took half a century to make a decision. The Chinese would have made the decision within a week. Little wonder some Chinese I spoke to said their country wasn't ready for democracy. Sometimes a government will hold its nerve to get things done, against the protesting populace. Two things come to mind. Not putting all the rail crossings underground, presumably because of cost. Also, converting a new rail line between Melbourne and Bendigo to a single line. I was told by a former rail employee it was due to the country bridges not being capable of taking the weight of two modern trains. Not sure if it's true or not.
I would love to hear more about carton gardens prior to the museum, and the future of the site. In a future video
Carlton Gardens was the site of a rubbish tip :)
I remember seeing a picture where much of the site and areas surrounding the Exhibition Building in the 70s was used for car parking
There was even a speedway on the site in years past... The Motor Registration Branch was also there for years before VicRoads was conceived.
I believe the rear might have been an army barracks or something along those lines during the war. Thought I’d seen a photo.
@@xr6lad Airforce barracks during WWII.
Really not a fan of the convention center and that general precinct. Never had a reason to go there for an event, and I've always found it a bit unpleasent to walk around in. Shame it wasnt converted into some nice public space. I actually do quite like the location of the new museam, althought the architecture is a bit strange, the location is definitley much better and nicer to spend time in.
Appreciate the time you must have put into this
I have been subscribed for a while and literally just got home from the museum off the 11 tram when I saw the notification for this video!! The Melbourne museum has become such a unique home and important third space for skaters, skateboarders, artists and creative people of all types who call it home, which is such a contrast to what is now where it could have been (crown/exhibition). I hope the state govt ensures it stays a creative space for good. Love your videos 🥰 now I can't unsee the slanted roof of the exhibition building and what could have been!
I’ve lived in Melbourne since 96 and I’ve never been to the museum. That’s shocking lol
If Scienceworks did not require a train ride then Marita from the band the Orbweavers would not have written the song about the sceintist who worked at the pumping station.
Wonderfully obscure . . .
I did volunteer tour guide work at the old Museum in the 90s and knew the building well and even got a few looks behind the scenes. The old museum had character and a lot of the main, nice, former exhibition galleries are now off limits and are glorious book storage spaces which is a massive waste. But even back then there were even some of these grand old spaces (mostly around the current Redmond Barry reading room) that had been converted into storage and offices. The whole complex was most definitely bursting at the seams. I've always wondered if some kind of partial use of the Queen Vic Hospital site for non public functions (storage, labs and offices) maybe even the Imax, and more aggressive use of off-site storage, plus the construction they did (on La Trobe, and bits of infilling) then the Museum could have stayed in the old building and gained lots more exhibition space. Also London faced the same problem at the same time but moved the Library ... that turned the old domed Reading room into a white elephant inside the British Museum, while the new British Library is 95% a giant underground storage bunker ... there's no reason they couldn't do that 'bunker' on the QV site (and/or somewhere else nearby) that could have served both the museum and library. Maybe even we could have demolished the crappy old sheds behind the Exhibition buildings and rebuilt the modern exhibition centre incorporating the main old buildings .. then you could put some underground storage bunker there for the museum/library there too ...
I have often pondered how much better Southbank would be if it was a complete arts and culture precinct without a massive casino in the middle of it. Carlton Gardens is a far less accessible location, and we were again robbed of another great square. NGV, Melbourne Museum and Hamer Hall all in the one spot would have been lovely. :(
How would this have made the state any money though… doesn’t crown have a secret garden on the roof that is supposed to be accessible to the public ?
@@vlat It wouldn't have... but if that is your only concern, I believe we have differing priorities. How do good footpaths make money? I suppose we should turn them into pedestrian toll roads.
NGV and Hammer Hall are nowhere near the Southbank site?
@@ravakahn they're all in very close proximity to eachother, and would be joined by a big square with likely better pedestrian connections
@@ultrajaywalkernews to me. I remember no plan for any big square along Southbank.
Thanks for the great talk Philip, yes in the mid 1980s The State Library was going to be rebuilt and refurbished and on the QV hospital site the 3 old towers were to remain and the whole block to become the new museum of Victoria. This was through a design competition won by Sydney firm Ancher, Mortlock and Woolley. This would have continued and enhanced Swanston st as the cultural and educational spine of the city. The main reason this plan didn't eventuate was the Labor state govt of the time was desperate for money in the late 1980s and decided to sell the QV site to the private sector(I believe Nauru and then David Marriner owned it before Grollo) and build the museum on the Southbank where it owned the land. Really a total loss for Melb and now has now come home to roost as the QV shopping centre is a retail and architecture derge. The shops that are still there could have been in the Melb Walk redevelopment and St Collins lane (Aust on Collins) activating central retail shopping and continuing our central retail spine.These outcomes happen when profit and short-sighted gains are put before sensible and good urban planning. (NB, the other finalists for the museum design competition at the QV site were Denton,Corker,Marshall and Edmund and Corrigan who went on to design building 8 at RMIT)
Thank you for that, and for that additional information!
… and the QV shopping centre has got to be one of the crappiest around. A really poor design and use of the space and location compared to Melbourne Central or Emporium.
Thank you for doing this videos. I remember bits and pieces of the discussions however don't ever remember seeing real drawings and proposals. Just goes to show how little the public get told from Government. And also how we only get feed what the media outlets want us to know and think. Keep up the good work. One building I would like to know why it was allowed to be demolished is what was the State Bank Of Victoria on the corner of Elizabeth and Bourke Sts. I will always remember seeing it for the first time. A country girl moving to the big city and that building blew my little mind. Thanks again Philip.
I loved the old museum , spent many happy hours there especially the science museum. I was very disappointed when the new museum opened and still don’t really like it. It feels more like an art gallery than a museum
Remember the one on the Yarra Street pan pretty well. The old tea house next door was going to be part of it I’m sure. Was never a fan of the one that got built because I do not like governments using parkland as free building sites. We have precious little as it is without them building on it.
Great video Philip.... Loved it.
Do a video on the Vic Market. The site itself has a very curious history that the majority of patrons have no idea about ;)
Good idea, thanks for the suggestion!
@@philipmallisthere was a plan at one time to put the State Library or Museum on that in the 1970’s if my memory is correct.
Please do a video on was supposed to be the Grollo Tower. Was meant to be built in the Docklands and be one of the worlds tallest buildings that never happened.
Thanks, will add to the list!
I was surprised that you made no mention of parts of the Museum originally being housed at Melbourne University. Known then as the National
Museum, it existed from 1863 until 1899 when it was relocated to the Public Library building.
Yes I remember seeing the half-built museum by the Yarra and how it stayed a concrete monolith for a number of years before its conversion. DCM had to incorporate this part into the new Exhibition Centre.
Love these Melbourne history videos mate. As a fellow Melbournian I love them! Please keep them coming
OMG Well done for doing this!!
It's fascinating because despite me not liking Geoff Kennett I always thought Jeff's sehd was great idea even if there is exhibition building and was more practical and now I see the "injustice" of it...
The original idea of the museum to have it up right sounded better than what we have... Do you know if the current museum has good policy procedures in case of natural disasters...?
Anyhow I nearly didn't see this video and now really grateful I didn't as it is important history that needs to be researched and I do can imagine you having to dig for information into archives! So thanks for doing this!
P.S. I am 38 years old but came to Australia in late 90's so perhaps if I did live then I wouldn't even like Geoff's shed now!
Thanks very much! And good question - I'm not sure on the details. I'm sure that the museum has disaster recovery plans in place but I'm not sure what they are. It might be best to contact Museums Victoria directly
In Melbourne in the 90s a common term for a school, industry or in this case a museum getting demolished or relocated was that it was getting "Jeffed".
Another great video thank you!
Great insights! I was alive during all that but too young to remember. Interesting to see the reason behind Scienceworks being in Spotswood too (where I live). A ferry to the city would have been very helpful!
Even Walker, infrastructure minister started the development of the southbank precinct which was to transfer it from car yards to a European environment where families came to enjoy the whole Yarra river. The museum was part of this reclaiming the under used Yarra environment but unfortunately Kennet won the election and as a true yob he turned that section of the Yarra into a sleazy part of Melbourne, a place where families don't go. He cheaply built the museum in the Carlton gardens as if it's a shed behind the exhibition building. His view was there's no money in museums and the science and culture that goes with it
I remember Jeff’s she’d opening yet would have been a very unique experience if the original designs were still in place and would have been an experience to get to science works by ferry as well, although why Geelong and Grampains, look I can see the interest in Geelong but Grampians is way out in woop woop!! Anyway, as always lMr Mallis love your work and keep it up
I sort of despise the buildings on the QV site.. shed is a good term describe the exhibition building... The museum is alright .. more trees and grass between it and the royal exhibition building would probably improve it
Most of this is lost to time for me, as I was largely between late single digits and early teens for most of this, however I do remember the southbank site being scrapped as a museum and the combination of Jeff's shed and the crown complex taking their place.
To be honest, I'm mostly ambivalent about any of the proposed solutions - except for the introduction of Crown.
I firmly believe that Melbourne could have done without that, and consider the addition of crown to be a massive cultural loss.
Didn't know about these plans as a life long Melbournite. Great video. Cheers.
If you were a proper life long Melbourne resident you'd know the term is Melburnian, NOT Melbournite! :)
Triggered
I remember Museum Station as a child and wondering why it was called that...
Haven't berm to Jeff's Shed or the Melbourne Museum since early this century. Wasn't the museum called the 'National Museum of Victoria' then or is that a trick of memory? We thought the name amusing, as if Victoria was a seperate country, rather than a state.
I remember they wanted it where Jeff's shed is now. Would not have been as good. I can remember going to the old museum a couple of times in the 1980s, was very small and crowded.
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The new museum has such a waste of open corridor space yet still lacks critical space for it’s collection. There is so much not on show or rotation it’s a wonder why they bothered to move. I stopped being a member, it got so boring seeing the same stuff like stuffed birds laid in rows in drawers. It lacked all the mystery of the old location and it’s dioramas. They really lost sight of the aim of the museum and all that it could show. Really sad to see the low numbers of visitors when it could be so much more with all they have in their collections.
just quietly, Rupert was known as Dick Hamer i.e. that's what he called himself.
Until he got knighted, then he became known as Sir Rupert.
I’m sure his mates still called him Dick though.
id like to see you do a video on the 1978 landmark competition
Thanks, will add it to the list!
nice city goods
The Melbourne Museum stores most of it's assets away from the public. My last trip to the Carlton Museum and Science works were a waste of time. Jeff Kennett had a knack of screwing things up for future generations.
first! Good to have bumped into you in person Philip!
Lovely to meet you too as well, thanks for saying hi! :)
I wonder what would have been the site of the convention centre if the Museum was actually finished where it was meant to go.
Of course it was none other than Jeff Kennett
Jeff Kennett was a blight on Victoria. Ideology over humanity.
In what way?
Yea imagine wanting to repair the finances. At least unlike Labor he didn’t tell everyone to keep their money in a failing building society that then collapsed. Or we had strike after strike!
Your comment that the Southbank Museum was 'half-built' is a little inaccurate. As far as I recall, the excavation and piling was completed but no building construction had yet commenced. Pretty accurate otherwise.
Thanks for the comment! I rely on sources for researching my videos and those that I found referred to partial construction of the building at the time. Happy to be corrected though if there are any photos or other sources to show it :)
@@philipmallis I stand corrected then. Keep up the amazing work!
The end result was to have one of the most beautiful buildings in Melbourne (the Royal Exhibition Building) right next to the ugliest (the Museum)
Everyone in these comments ripping into Jeff Kennett clearly have very short memories, or are just stupid. Victoria was financially broken after the dark days of Cain and Kirner governments and we needed to bring money back into the state with prioritising business investment, and the casino was hugely important to getting back in the black. Kennett also went to both the 1992 and 1996 elections with these proposals to the people of Victoria.
He also destroyed a generation of young people through the militant and overzealous closure of schools, _especially_ tech schools. 30 years later we have a severe qualified tradesperson shortage, opening the door for dodgy contractors and poor quality workmanship left, right and centre, because foundation trade education was not available for so long. A lot of the kids who were unceremoniously evicted from their tech high schools were just not suited to mainstream education and dropped out before completing high school. Only in the past 5 years or so has the government realised the serious error that was made and has begun opening new tech schools across the state and expanding VET in schools programs to accommodate the kids that are best suited to it and help repair our qualified tradesperson deficit.
@@RiffRaffMama.right. And not forgetting Kennett ruined healthcare by severely cutting funding to hospitals. A model that continued with each politician since, showing the cracks in our hospital system during the time of the 🦠 lockdowns.
melbourne could of had a proper ferry service i am saddened
leave it to Jeff Kennett to ruin every decent planning project.
They wanted to demolish the state library building???
Why not get good old whelan and his team in and get rid of it?!
Im so glad that the library is still there and didnt see the same fate of so many other beautiful buildings in Melbourne
I am not impressed by the museums in Melbourne. However I like the design that was scrapped by Jeff Kennett.
I’ve heard that the majority of interesting museum artefacts are boxed up somewhere,like the ending of Raiders of the Lost Ark. A bit pointless building a new “ museum “ if the displays are about as interesting as white wallpaper. Went once with my family after it opened. Couldn’t wait to leave,..boring. The old museum felt like one.
Took all the trees, and put them in a tree museum…..
The current museum, while well located, is a monstrosity with its cheap looking cladding and obstructive Kennetesque salute. The exhibits are tailor designed as passive props for incurious for 10-year-olds. Should be torn down or at least the exterior with a passive design merging into the Carlton Gardens.