I love how Stonemaier Games is so outwardly environmentally conscious and things like the more environmentally friendly bags are great. Personally however, I do like your decision to go with the plastic insert and bakelite loot tokens. Wood tokens in this instance I think would have been inferior. Single use (or throwaway) plastic in my opinion is more egregious whereas these elements are integral to the experience and won't be thrown away.
Man I love this series, I also appreciate the fact that we can see how past game decisions come into effect and how there is praise for other games that handle components "better" ex.The dials. Shows constant growth
Glad you got rid of the frames on the box, made the tokens double sided, yellow token tray, great inside look! Please don’t change to non Azul tokens in future printings! :)
I love this series of videos. When we watch them we see the level of attention to details that the people at SM Games takes. It is not by chance that SM Games is renowned by the great production values of their games.
I love seeing the behind the sense of developing games. Very insightful. I see why you wanted to make a framing element to the box but I agree that you made the right decision for the final box cover. I also feel that the Art Style change was a wise choice to further differentiate from the original. Good stuff
I absolutely love learning about these design elements. It is fascinating to see the thought process of your company, and appreciate the thorough approach to your games. Please keep these "Tales from production" coming.
Thank you Jamey for your comments on sustainability. As someone who often has difficulty reconciling my environmental concerns with my love of the board game hobby, it is really good to hear that an industry leader is also at least thinking about these things and trying to move in a more sustainable direction! Please push the boundaries in this area like you do in so many other ways!
I really enjoyed this video where you talked about the production side of things (probably because I work in publishing). Good thing that you tested out those treasure dials beforehand--that might have been a show stopper (not in a good way). I think your graphics person did an excellent job with the loose framing around the art, as it doesn't "cut off" the picture and continues in the flowing/fluid style of the piece as a whole. Now I'm curious to see the two versions side by side! In any case, I think they both work and your final choice looks quite nice. Preordered the game last night and am looking forward to getting my hands on it!
Just wanted to thank you for all the videos and articles you've posted on game design, they have been an immense help for me in shaping my own game and I really look forward to your future vids!
Thanks for this video and transparency, Jamey! Always appreciate your thoughts on process and development. Just got my game and just opening up and looking through the art and components was absolutely satisfying. Amazing development from the original, fantastic art and hope to get it to the table this week!
Love seeing the thought and care that goes into the final version, you can always see that you go the extra steps to provide the superior game experiences, but hearing about the variations throughout the process is really enlightening! Love what you do!
I like the box without the framing elements. It has more of a wide open sky kind of look, which I think is what the artist was going for. Also, there are already some foreground elements from the masts and rigging and the additional elements get a little busy, IMHO. I mean, it's perfectly fine WITH them, but I think it's a little better without. I have no particular background with which to make a comment like that :). Just gut reaction.
Fantastic video as it.gives the consumers a view of something that normally we don't see...the "what could have been". It also illustrates how many small details the physical product has that can go wrong. I've thought this before (and I'm sure I'm not the first) but you are truly the Steve Jobs of boardgame publishing (in the good thing, not the other ones🤣)
I really like your comment about "taking off secrecy" with regards to the loot tokens. A concrete example came to mind. When playing Magic: the Gathering online through MTG Arena, whenever you use a card that lets you take a peek at the opponent's hand, the cards stays visible afterwards until used or discarded. This is, of course, different from when playing physical Magic, and so the first time I saw this digital implementation I was kind of bummed. But then I realized; Nothing is preventing players from simply taking notes, in this digital format. And so, why pass on this burden to players? This would be somewhat unfair and/or create unexpected scenarios. So in the end I think it was the correct decision to make, and I also think so for Libertalia, as it would add extra load to players and create this weird situation wherein some players would actively try and memorize things whereas other would not. I really enjoy this Tales From Production series, thanks for sharing!
Got my copy a couple days ago. The entire design is very well thought through. The only place I saw with a little room for improvement is the draw bag strings. They are very tough to cinch. It's not a huge deal since I never cinch during the game and just fold it over in the box. Also, thanks for thinking to include a spare dial rivet set. I didn't need it, but I've had other game that came with one that didn't come out of the mold correctly and wished I had one.
Thanks for that feedback, Kat! I just fold over my bag, and in its compartment I haven't had any tokens fall out. But that's good to note for the future.
I’ve noticed that some games use small circular pieces of adhesive rather than shrink wrap to “seal” their games. Dice Miner is a game I recently purchased that did this.
We use the stickers on some expansions (I think we’re moving to do that with most expansions). The downside is (a) it vastly decreases the shelf-life of a game due to moisture/humidity getting in the box and (b) stickers can leave behind an unappealing residue.
I like tuck boxes because I can take out only what I need, and each player can 'own' their components. If they can also be used throughout the game, that's a bonus. I also like that you've shrunk the rulebook. Do you think that you'll do that with existing games?
Don’t forget about shipping packaging. We often see retailers praised online when they use copious amounts of bubble wrap, but eliminating shrink wrap doesn’t matter much if the game is sent wrapped in multiple layers of bubble wrap. I’ll be interested to see how you try to solve shrinkwrapping. That seems hard to replace for warehousing and B&M sales but not especially important when someone buys the game for themselves.
I 100% agree, Steve. We've been working with our fulfillment centers to try to find eco-friendly, biodegradable shrinkwrap. At the factory level, any products we pre-package now use biodegradable shrinkwrap.
Re: insert vs tuckboxes Jamey have you played Obsession? They have small cardboard boxes for each House in the game. It makes set up and teaching very easy. You just hand each player their little box and it has everything they need to set up their area (cards, tokens, and player aids). Also, the first time you play it’s fun to open your own little box, it kind of feels like opening a present!
I've just had a look at the seasons box - I actually think I'd prefer full art on that one too ^^. I can imagine some framing being good if you were 'looking through' something on the scene though - Like if the image was a garden, hanging plants framing the image would look good. Or if it was industrial you could have edges of buildings as a frame to make it feel like a cramped Victorian city kind of vibe. I think the earlier Libertalia one isn't clear what the story is for the frame, so it doesn't feel quite right. Edit: 😯 tuckboxes would have been fantastic. I have a couple of games with 0.3l really useful boxes with all the player components on them (including cards where possible, like Great Western Trail) - Setup becomes so nice! Ah well, something to consider next time ^^.
Stonemaier always nails production. Was surprised at the depth you went into for some things (indents for the coin box to make it easier to open). Were you able to put more focus on production since this is a remake instead of a new game? Or would you say this level is on par with your other games?
Hi Jamie, love your content. I've been an aspiring game designer, but have discovered after trying it a couple months that I don't enjoy building games from the ground up. I am however very interested in board game production and development. All these little choices, box art, double sided tiles, accessibility, I think they are fascinating and I would love to work somewhere where I could make these choices. Any tips for trying to get in to a development job? Thanks.
There are several great pirate themed games out there, and if people really want to get a certain license to the table, roleplaying always exists. Im excited to see how your edited mechanics plays out and if they are as fun and engaging as other SM titles. Really looking forward to see what the community is inspired to do from the back end work your team has already done! A campaign like Charterstone could be done, people could make their own playerboards or tuckboxes if they wanted, a cooperative or collaborative variant might come out. I wonder about teaching the game to newbies, do you think pirate lovers will flock to Libertalia like bird watchers did for Wingspan, ie will a teacher aid be in the works for this game by some SM ambassadors?
Most of the changes you made are good or great ! However I think I will miss two things from the original Libertalia : - score track : easier to see the score of everyone; the score dials have a great look but I'm not sure why they exist... - player boards ! : the player boards for Libertalia were awesome :D the art, the discarded cards on the left (where there's a skull), your draw pile on your right (where there's your ship) and your den cards at the top; you could even place your loot on your player board, and there was a player aid on it too ! the player boards were really helpful for the players to manage their cards and to know the rules; I will really miss my player board :(
I hear that. I think my experience with the original Libertalia was a bit different, as the player boards just seemed to get in the way of our tableau. The score dials exist to track player scores without a big board that just takes up a bunch of space; plus, they give players the option to play with secret scores if they want. Also, the designer really wanted treasure chests in the game.
@@jameystegmaier the treasure chest is really great visually and thematic too ! I'll give you that 😉 I will wait and test your new version to get a definitive opinion on it !
@@vincentlievaux2841 if you still want a player board with all the fixings, and make a kick butt one, then put it on bgg, if it gets a ton of attention and love, Stonemair has been known to take fan creations and do things with them (My Little Scythe, Rolling Realms).
I’m glad that you went with a plastic insert. And the art looks good. Good move with removing the frame from around the cover. Imo it looks less busy now. Also in my opinion tuck boxes is a terrible idea. They do not hold up over time. So they would end up been thrown away so this still causes waste. The tuck boxes in charterstone didn’t last after 1 and half run throughs. Even the ones in sleeping gods didn’t hold up that well. If you make an insert that functions well people won’t throw it out. Unfortunately the insert for Red Rising didn’t really function for people who store game vertically. So I removed it and just bagged the components. I think the one thing to take away from this is Testing of things is important. You could have done a wooden insert. If you look at the Western Legends big box that is currently on KS the have gone with a wooden insert.
I love the new art, but the visceral reaction against it really has me wondering what is up with my tastes, I always seem to be the odd one out. With the exception of Scythe, gritty realistic graphics is honestly off-putting for me in a board game. Even Scythe feels more impressionistic. I hope I’ll get a chance to play the new edition though, even if it might be hard to find like-minded players. Cool to see some of the work that went into making this.
Since some people have decided to get a little snarky about the word "reprint" regarding this edition of the game, maybe "reissue" would work better. Meaning this is a new version of the game, not just a reissue of the previous version. There's no confusion there with the idea of a reprint being a new print run of the existing edition. I wouldn't think it was a big deal at all, but if there's confusion, whether or not it's valid, then sometimes we probably just have to bend to it.
I'm really confused by your comment - Are you suggesting people use reissue to mean 'the same again' or to use it for 'a new and different thing', you seem to use both in your comment but I might be misunderstanding. - I think the better thing is not to answer questions like 'is there a reprint coming' (appreciate it's probably tough to keep on top of that!) as people will always interpret statements in a variety of ways, and sometimes a 'bad' way sticks.
Yes Stonemair has addressed the reprint question before, in that a reprint is telling the manufacturer to print more of a game, like if Walgreens had my photos and I wanted more copies printed. A second or third edition is an edit on the existing game. Stonemair edited the original, and is releasing this edition. Two different words with two different meanings.
I remember Jamey talking about this and found it at 30:10 of this video, Jamey addresses these issues. Hope it is insightful and helpful to whoever wants to learn from it 🙂 czcams.com/video/Lpid2z1aqEk/video.html
I love how Stonemaier Games is so outwardly environmentally conscious and things like the more environmentally friendly bags are great. Personally however, I do like your decision to go with the plastic insert and bakelite loot tokens. Wood tokens in this instance I think would have been inferior. Single use (or throwaway) plastic in my opinion is more egregious whereas these elements are integral to the experience and won't be thrown away.
Man I love this series, I also appreciate the fact that we can see how past game decisions come into effect and how there is praise for other games that handle components "better" ex.The dials. Shows constant growth
Couldn’t agree more about the rulebook size! I thought the same thing watching that video from Jack.
Glad you got rid of the frames on the box, made the tokens double sided, yellow token tray, great inside look! Please don’t change to non Azul tokens in future printings! :)
I love this series of videos. When we watch them we see the level of attention to details that the people at SM Games takes. It is not by chance that SM Games is renowned by the great production values of their games.
I love seeing the behind the sense of developing games. Very insightful.
I see why you wanted to make a framing element to the box but I agree that you made the right decision for the final box cover. I also feel that the Art Style change was a wise choice to further differentiate from the original. Good stuff
I absolutely love learning about these design elements. It is fascinating to see the thought process of your company, and appreciate the thorough approach to your games. Please keep these "Tales from production" coming.
After reading Dune Imperium rule book, I appreciate the rule size and feel so much more. So interesting to watch.
Thank you Jamey for your comments on sustainability. As someone who often has difficulty reconciling my environmental concerns with my love of the board game hobby, it is really good to hear that an industry leader is also at least thinking about these things and trying to move in a more sustainable direction! Please push the boundaries in this area like you do in so many other ways!
I really enjoyed this video where you talked about the production side of things (probably because I work in publishing). Good thing that you tested out those treasure dials beforehand--that might have been a show stopper (not in a good way).
I think your graphics person did an excellent job with the loose framing around the art, as it doesn't "cut off" the picture and continues in the flowing/fluid style of the piece as a whole. Now I'm curious to see the two versions side by side! In any case, I think they both work and your final choice looks quite nice.
Preordered the game last night and am looking forward to getting my hands on it!
Just wanted to thank you for all the videos and articles you've posted on game design, they have been an immense help for me in shaping my own game and I really look forward to your future vids!
Thanks for this video and transparency, Jamey! Always appreciate your thoughts on process and development. Just got my game and just opening up and looking through the art and components was absolutely satisfying. Amazing development from the original, fantastic art and hope to get it to the table this week!
Pre-ordered yesterday along with the metal coins! Can't wait to get it to the table.
Love seeing the thought and care that goes into the final version, you can always see that you go the extra steps to provide the superior game experiences, but hearing about the variations throughout the process is really enlightening! Love what you do!
Great video as always. Love to see stories from the production side. Got my copy pre-ordered. Can’t wait.
Quite awesome! I like that rule book being smaller for the very reason you gave.
Love the new art style and have pre-ordered with metal coins. It feels so much more welcoming than the original.
I like the box without the framing elements. It has more of a wide open sky kind of look, which I think is what the artist was going for. Also, there are already some foreground elements from the masts and rigging and the additional elements get a little busy, IMHO. I mean, it's perfectly fine WITH them, but I think it's a little better without. I have no particular background with which to make a comment like that :). Just gut reaction.
Pre-ordered my copy yesterday. Excited 😄
Signed up as a Champion and got my preorder in this morning :).
I think allllllll games should come with player-specific tuck boxes, with a printed list of player components/starting components
Fantastic video as it.gives the consumers a view of something that normally we don't see...the "what could have been". It also illustrates how many small details the physical product has that can go wrong. I've thought this before (and I'm sure I'm not the first) but you are truly the Steve Jobs of boardgame publishing (in the good thing, not the other ones🤣)
I really like your comment about "taking off secrecy" with regards to the loot tokens. A concrete example came to mind. When playing Magic: the Gathering online through MTG Arena, whenever you use a card that lets you take a peek at the opponent's hand, the cards stays visible afterwards until used or discarded. This is, of course, different from when playing physical Magic, and so the first time I saw this digital implementation I was kind of bummed. But then I realized; Nothing is preventing players from simply taking notes, in this digital format. And so, why pass on this burden to players? This would be somewhat unfair and/or create unexpected scenarios. So in the end I think it was the correct decision to make, and I also think so for Libertalia, as it would add extra load to players and create this weird situation wherein some players would actively try and memorize things whereas other would not. I really enjoy this Tales From Production series, thanks for sharing!
You are allowed to take note in physical mtg aswell so nice players keep them open so you dont have to take notes :)
@@tobbefriberg Sorry I've just seen your reply! I did not know that, my fault I guess... Last time I played physical MTG I was a child! :)
Got my copy a couple days ago. The entire design is very well thought through. The only place I saw with a little room for improvement is the draw bag strings. They are very tough to cinch. It's not a huge deal since I never cinch during the game and just fold it over in the box. Also, thanks for thinking to include a spare dial rivet set. I didn't need it, but I've had other game that came with one that didn't come out of the mold correctly and wished I had one.
Thanks for that feedback, Kat! I just fold over my bag, and in its compartment I haven't had any tokens fall out. But that's good to note for the future.
I’ve noticed that some games use small circular pieces of adhesive rather than shrink wrap to “seal” their games. Dice Miner is a game I recently purchased that did this.
We use the stickers on some expansions (I think we’re moving to do that with most expansions). The downside is (a) it vastly decreases the shelf-life of a game due to moisture/humidity getting in the box and (b) stickers can leave behind an unappealing residue.
I like tuck boxes because I can take out only what I need, and each player can 'own' their components. If they can also be used throughout the game, that's a bonus. I also like that you've shrunk the rulebook. Do you think that you'll do that with existing games?
Not with existing games (it would be a huge amount of work to do that), but with some future games, yes.
Don’t forget about shipping packaging. We often see retailers praised online when they use copious amounts of bubble wrap, but eliminating shrink wrap doesn’t matter much if the game is sent wrapped in multiple layers of bubble wrap. I’ll be interested to see how you try to solve shrinkwrapping. That seems hard to replace for warehousing and B&M sales but not especially important when someone buys the game for themselves.
I 100% agree, Steve. We've been working with our fulfillment centers to try to find eco-friendly, biodegradable shrinkwrap. At the factory level, any products we pre-package now use biodegradable shrinkwrap.
Re: insert vs tuckboxes
Jamey have you played Obsession? They have small cardboard boxes for each House in the game. It makes set up and teaching very easy. You just hand each player their little box and it has everything they need to set up their area (cards, tokens, and player aids). Also, the first time you play it’s fun to open your own little box, it kind of feels like opening a present!
I have, and you make a great point about the tuckboxes. We use them in Charterstone, and I should have considered them here.
I've just had a look at the seasons box - I actually think I'd prefer full art on that one too ^^.
I can imagine some framing being good if you were 'looking through' something on the scene though - Like if the image was a garden, hanging plants framing the image would look good. Or if it was industrial you could have edges of buildings as a frame to make it feel like a cramped Victorian city kind of vibe.
I think the earlier Libertalia one isn't clear what the story is for the frame, so it doesn't feel quite right.
Edit: 😯 tuckboxes would have been fantastic. I have a couple of games with 0.3l really useful boxes with all the player components on them (including cards where possible, like Great Western Trail) - Setup becomes so nice! Ah well, something to consider next time ^^.
Thanks for hooking this anti libertalia grouch. Love the look and changes made. Pre-ordered. Sorry for ever doubting you.
Stonemaier always nails production. Was surprised at the depth you went into for some things (indents for the coin box to make it easier to open). Were you able to put more focus on production since this is a remake instead of a new game? Or would you say this level is on par with your other games?
I would say it's on par with how much I think about the various tactile elements of every game. :)
Wow this is amazing. One not exactly related to the topic: have you ever discussed who/how the art style is picked for the game?
I talked about it a little bit in the design diaries. As soon as I saw Lamaro Smith's online portfolio, it just felt right to me for the game.
Hi Jamie, love your content.
I've been an aspiring game designer, but have discovered after trying it a couple months that I don't enjoy building games from the ground up.
I am however very interested in board game production and development. All these little choices, box art, double sided tiles, accessibility, I think they are fascinating and I would love to work somewhere where I could make these choices.
Any tips for trying to get in to a development job? Thanks.
There are several great pirate themed games out there, and if people really want to get a certain license to the table, roleplaying always exists. Im excited to see how your edited mechanics plays out and if they are as fun and engaging as other SM titles. Really looking forward to see what the community is inspired to do from the back end work your team has already done!
A campaign like Charterstone could be done, people could make their own playerboards or tuckboxes if they wanted, a cooperative or collaborative variant might come out.
I wonder about teaching the game to newbies, do you think pirate lovers will flock to Libertalia like bird watchers did for Wingspan, ie will a teacher aid be in the works for this game by some SM ambassadors?
I hope pirate lovers will flock to it! :)
Most of the changes you made are good or great ! However I think I will miss two things from the original Libertalia :
- score track : easier to see the score of everyone; the score dials have a great look but I'm not sure why they exist...
- player boards ! : the player boards for Libertalia were awesome :D the art, the discarded cards on the left (where there's a skull), your draw pile on your right (where there's your ship) and your den cards at the top; you could even place your loot on your player board, and there was a player aid on it too ! the player boards were really helpful for the players to manage their cards and to know the rules; I will really miss my player board :(
I hear that. I think my experience with the original Libertalia was a bit different, as the player boards just seemed to get in the way of our tableau. The score dials exist to track player scores without a big board that just takes up a bunch of space; plus, they give players the option to play with secret scores if they want. Also, the designer really wanted treasure chests in the game.
@@jameystegmaier the treasure chest is really great visually and thematic too ! I'll give you that 😉
I will wait and test your new version to get a definitive opinion on it !
@@vincentlievaux2841 if you still want a player board with all the fixings, and make a kick butt one, then put it on bgg, if it gets a ton of attention and love, Stonemair has been known to take fan creations and do things with them (My Little Scythe, Rolling Realms).
I’m glad that you went with a plastic insert. And the art looks good. Good move with removing the frame from around the cover. Imo it looks less busy now. Also in my opinion tuck boxes is a terrible idea. They do not hold up over time. So they would end up been thrown away so this still causes waste. The tuck boxes in charterstone didn’t last after 1 and half run throughs. Even the ones in sleeping gods didn’t hold up that well. If you make an insert that functions well people won’t throw it out. Unfortunately the insert for Red Rising didn’t really function for people who store game vertically. So I removed it and just bagged the components. I think the one thing to take away from this is Testing of things is important. You could have done a wooden insert. If you look at the Western Legends big box that is currently on KS the have gone with a wooden insert.
Hi Jamey. The discount for the pre-order goes until end of day tomorrow (March 5), correct? Just wanted to double-check…thanks!
That's right!
I love the new art, but the visceral reaction against it really has me wondering what is up with my tastes, I always seem to be the odd one out. With the exception of Scythe, gritty realistic graphics is honestly off-putting for me in a board game. Even Scythe feels more impressionistic.
I hope I’ll get a chance to play the new edition though, even if it might be hard to find like-minded players. Cool to see some of the work that went into making this.
Since some people have decided to get a little snarky about the word "reprint" regarding this edition of the game, maybe "reissue" would work better. Meaning this is a new version of the game, not just a reissue of the previous version. There's no confusion there with the idea of a reprint being a new print run of the existing edition. I wouldn't think it was a big deal at all, but if there's confusion, whether or not it's valid, then sometimes we probably just have to bend to it.
I'm really confused by your comment - Are you suggesting people use reissue to mean 'the same again' or to use it for 'a new and different thing', you seem to use both in your comment but I might be misunderstanding.
-
I think the better thing is not to answer questions like 'is there a reprint coming' (appreciate it's probably tough to keep on top of that!) as people will always interpret statements in a variety of ways, and sometimes a 'bad' way sticks.
Yes Stonemair has addressed the reprint question before, in that a reprint is telling the manufacturer to print more of a game, like if Walgreens had my photos and I wanted more copies printed.
A second or third edition is an edit on the existing game. Stonemair edited the original, and is releasing this edition. Two different words with two different meanings.
I remember Jamey talking about this and found it at 30:10 of this video, Jamey addresses these issues. Hope it is insightful and helpful to whoever wants to learn from it 🙂
czcams.com/video/Lpid2z1aqEk/video.html
Any plans for future expansions?
We don't have plans, but we're open to doing something small (maybe more loot tiles to give even more variable definitions to the loot tokens).
More cards, better tokens, solo mode and better tie-break... but is soulless. Keeping the old one.
Is it an L or a Q or a 2?
The game is called Libertalia, so it's an L.