I am an ex homosexual, former alcoholic, ex drug addict, was addicted to porn, anything immoral, anything addictive. I had no self worth, living self destructive. Now even through there are trials, there is a peace where before I only had shame and guilt. My sins were many but Christ has forgiven them all.
There is no such thing as a former homosexual. I'm sorry youve had such a tough life, but lets be honest. The destructive power of religion is probably the reason for your various trials.
Romans 1:27 I don’t think the Bible can be any more blunt than this!!!! 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error. (You can’t really mis-translate this. This part of scripture is CLEAR!!!!!!!) The word ‘homosexual’ might be new, but the practice and understanding of what it is, is plain to see in this piece of scripture.
Yeah I did the same . Grabbed my fathers gun and was siting at the end of his bed contemplating blowing my own brains out. I don't have homosexual thoughts nor tendencies but I saw no future for my own life. Yet here I am 48 years old and still struggling through life but I know who God is and what He has done for me and to me in my life. It not sunshine and roses all the time. The more I struggle though the more I grab hold of God and the more I do that the more He shows me and teaches me. Only by His grace am I still alive.
Heaven is gonna be so good! Life is so short and heaven is eternity. Whatever struggles in this life will melt away in mere moments in the presence of God in heaven. What an exalted place you'll have!! Jesus says so! Those who struggle in this life have special places that are highly exalted in heaven! Hold fast to the promises! Everything is working for your good, for the good of those who believe in Jesus. Oh how good will it feel when he holds you fast in his arms in heaven and says, I've loved you so much, I was with you through everything, welcome home. You are so loved!! 💗💞 But what glories are present here also! The sunshine, birds singing, laughter, sports, cookies, music and all the colors!! If you are able to, wear as many beautiful colors as you can, it always lifts my spirits to see colors everywhere! Oh Jesus you are joy! Thank you Jesus!
@@imoimos we spend 70 years or so on earth...imagine spending 127,324,587,345,198,054,2,121,53,453,4, years doing nohing but grovelling at tour gods need for idolation ...boring..thankfully theres no evidencve that its true...we just die...sorry
@@iampostal have you ever been in love? I mean the feelings are that the other person is amazing and you just like being around them. For Christians it's like that times 1000 but for God. Faith. Where does that come from? I really don't know, I just know one day I felt a strong urge to know Jesus, like out of nowhere I thought, who is Jesus and why do I feel whoever he is must be good, and since then my life's been on a totally different trajectory. I can say I am 10x better a person now than I was before wanting to know Jesus ... And I don't mean I'm richer, if anything I'm poorer haha ... Or I've gotten more successful or gained more worldly esteem, if anything I've gained less worldly esteem. But the quality of my character ethically has so radically changed that I have to say, something is happening when you want to know Jesus. I can look at my life and see, there's been this change in my nature over time of knowing him and that confirms my faith which truth be told does have moments of doubt ... What's odd is when those doubts start up, something happens that draws me back to Jesus. I've never felt loved in this way before, which is to say ... When someone loves you enough, understands you enough to want you to become your best self ... and I mean by that, to conform you to Jesus Christ who was selfless, loving, forgiving, gentle, faithful, humble etc. So yes, eternity with God, knowing he is truly lacking in darkness, lacking in greed, lacking in lustfulness, lacking in domination, lacking in any aspect of darkness that wants to harm for personal gain but is pure, loving and good ... I think that sounds good. Don't blame him for what people who claim to know him do. His nature is pure, holy and good. When you see a beautiful sunset, a mother holding her young child with love, a person sacrificing their life to save someone else, any goodness, mercy, purity, gentleness and love ... That's reflective of his nature. For me personally, I want to be around that for eternity.
What has harmed more people gay or not is the definition arrived at by the Kinsey institute in the 60's. They made sexual preference a criterion of human identity and thus homosexuality a taxonomy category. Before that homosexuality was behaviorally determined, a word you attributed to people who engaged in that behavior but now people use it like a separate human category. That's just wrong.
Go back to Genesis Chapter one and two to see what God intended with his Creation. Our human nature has been corrupted in many ways depending on the individual. Some people love to lie and others have the temptation and desire for sex outside of marriage, this latter term referring to union of a man and woman.
Very true. Studying humanity, and psychology particularly, is just plain wrong because you start to understand all kinds of stuff about behaviour, motivation, people's sense of themselves etc.
@@gregorybezanson Yes, Adam and Eve should have been the perfect couple living in a perfect world, bringing forth perfect children and why? To glorify the living God on earth and this is the whole Plan He had for this world. Now we are living in a fallen world but soon the Lord, our Bridegroom will return for His BRIDE and hallelu'yah, I cannot wait for that day when His truth will shine like the sun.
I've researched this topic a lot. I've read biblical scholars on all sides of the issue. I find it very interesting that older translations, including Martin Luther, use terms similar to boy molester and not homosexual. The original Greek words are difficult to translate into modern day English, but boy molestation was a huge part of the culture back then. At best, all "traditional scholars" can say is that we're not sure, for example, what Paul meant in 1 Corinthians 6:9. From everything I've read, about the only thing you can honestly say is that we don't know if God considers practicing homosexuality sinful.. And if the bible is unclear, many folks are making a huge issue out of this when it shouldn't be and it's harming gay and lesbian people deeply. Where is the love and mercy of Jesus being displayed? Being unsure about it, I try to see if we can determine what harm a married homosexual is causing. Sin harms other people and I don't see how married homosexuals are harming anybody. In addition, why are so many Christians calling out that supposed sin, but not greed, gluttony, selfishness, drunkenness or many, many other sins that cause so much harm in this world?
It doesn’t just talk about homosexuality. The bible literally said that a man laying with a man or a woman laying with another woman is an abomination..
Even Lust after another person that doesn't belong to you is a sin. And we know marriage is for a man and a woman. People need to stop trying to figure out loop holes and what sin they can get away with.
The old testament does, yes. However if you're a Christian, the old testament and levitical law mean nothing thanks to the sacrifice of Jesus. Jesus never says anything about homosexuality. Perhaps you should know your own religious texts before trying to make claims.
That’s condescending. God’s word and it’s meaning aren’t always simple to understand, as language has evolved over thousands of years. Translations aren’t simple either. Taking the effort to understand it, is our duty as Christians. And questioning what translations were handed to us by other men, isn’t sinful. It’s lazy to assume we have a complete understanding of the bible.
@@stevenbatke4167 The meaning of the words found in the NT unquestionable mean homosexuality. Even if they were to never come up, which they do, Genesis 2:24 forbids it. Unfortunately like I said earlier however, sinners will always look for a way to soften the Word of God.
@@kylec8950 I don’t see how that verse forbids anything, other than it explains typical marriage. We all filter scripture through our own lens. But hey, if you interpret it that way, that’s your choice.
@@stevenbatke4167 No it's not my choice. That's what God says. It couldnt be clearer. When you twist Scripture around to appease your own sins, you have a real problem with God himself.
In Christ, it’s not any “easier” to deal with sexual temptation for a heterosexual than it is for a homosexual. The temptation is just different. We all need to be “transformed by the renewing of our minds”. We are new creatures in Christ and need to have our self identification derived from “being in the Spirit” rather than derived from the fleshly stronghold of who we “were in the flesh”. It takes time but we need the revelation that we really were crucified and raised anew in Christ. He is risen and we are risen in Him. Thanks be to God. 🎚😇📖🙏🏼
@@Squawk24 In the spirit God is referred to as Father or Abba.(present male tense He) And what you're expounding is gnosticism not the bible and John warns about that being anti-christ.
Believing in Christ and putting your life in His hands does not change your sexual orientation. To believe so is ridiculous. People who accept the bible as without error is ridiculous. When it was written the people thought in completely different ways about things. They thought the world was flat, they thought the sun revolved around the earth, they thought that rape was the same as having same sex. They were fools and people who take it literally are fools as well.
I disagree with you both and I’m very disappointed with the direction of this dialog. Our use of the term homosexual does not and is not intended to “offend our gay brothers”, both are biological terms that are valid and undoubtedly relevant. Heterosexual (Hetero) = Prefix meaning different and Homosexual (Homo) = Prefix meaning same. No one is “born gay”, although most gays claim that they were. The use of the term homosexual in the Bible is valid and very appropriate. God created us in His image to be heterosexual beings, not homosexual. Contrary to the standard gay mantra “I was born this way”, God created man as a heterosexual being, and created woman as his opposite. We were born, however, as sinful beings, and it is our sinful nature that leads some to seek same sex sexual activity that is contrary to His design. The nonsensical phrase “celibate gay Christian” is an oxymoron. Temptation does not define our sexuality - God does. If a Christian man struggles with same sex temptation, then he struggles with temptation just like we all do. We all struggle in this life with various temptations, most of which we’re better off to avoid. The so-called “celibate gay Christian” is a celibate heterosexual Christian that struggles with same sex attraction. To define one’s self by our temptations is absurd, its like saying I’m a highly tempted yet abstaining alcoholic Christian that has never had a drink in his life. I don’t say this to offend or define my Christian brothers that struggle with this sinful temptation - I say it to define myself, as I struggle with same sex attraction as well, but God created me to be heterosexual, and who am I to argue with my Creator?
Same sex attraction...is the same as lust. God doesn’t even define the term sex attraction. He refers to sexual immorality, but does mention homosexuality. I don’t care if ppl what to say the translation is wrong. The Bible is the oldest book in the world and still the best seller to this day. I do pray that God will open the eyes of these ppl before judgement day. God in the 7 churches mention we must overcome....now these are just a few He mentions....if, we want our names written in the book of life, the tree of life, the white stone, the manna....etc. God Bless!
Thank you both!! I've never heard such loving and compassionate discussion around gay people and gay relationships within the church. This video and many others of yours about the same topic has meant so much to me as a gay celibate Christian, you couldn't even begin to imagine. Some even led me to tears (which isn't a regular thing for me). Just thank you so, so much.
You justify your views on sexuality using the accounts of Genesis which are at best mythologies that were borrowed from even older creation stories that we have access to to this day. If you believe Adam and Eve is a real story then you really need to do a little more digging into the foundation of your faith and how humans evolved.
@A J Hmm as far as a "mistake" goes I don't believe there's any on God's part. I think there's true value in celibacy and focusing on God. I'm not celibate to please people like Sean or anyone else. I believe in God's design and plan for his creation. I used to hold a very similar viewpoint to that which you seem to hold. I told Christians that they were being brainwashed to hate themselves and abandon their true identity and chance at enjoying life. However, since then I've experienced Christ's love in a real, truly loving way. Though I may not know why God designed relationships and marriage the way he did, I believe in God's goodness and knowledge far above my own understanding. Ultimately I fail to see a viable case for same sex relationships within the Bible, so I will not engage in those relationships. Aiming to honor God in everything and all parts of my life has proved to be far more fulfilling and purposeful than just looking to satisfy myself and my desires ever were or could possibly be. I don't see it as self-hatred, I see it as a test of faith and trust in God's sovereignty. I personally don't pray to not be gay, nor do I see much value in conversion therapy. I ask for God's grace and to keep making me more like himself each day. My identity in Christ far surpasses any other component of who I am. I'm sorry if either of us has caused you to feel like you should hate yourself or doubt God's character. I don't hate myself, I'm least miserable I've ever been, and I know I'm still loved my God through the entire process
@A J uuhh no many times we all have sexual desires that anyone with common sense can see would be impure..humans are fallen and imperfect creatures which is the very reason we need Christ..but yeah I can understand those who don't believe in Christ hating the idea of God or hating Christianity for the very reason that it expects us to deny some of our desires..but those who believe they've received Christ can live a perfectly joyful life, not indulging in their desires, cuz they're looking towards what's to come after this life..however, without that view of a Christain afterlife so to speak then yeah living a life resisting our desires would be miserable cuz u don't perceive any reward for doing so..if thats your position I understand..but for u to assume that everyone who doesn't see the world the way u do is miserable?? pretty presumptuous and ignorant
@@christinaiverson2009 1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; 3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. 4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: 5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. 6 If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained. 7 But refuse profane and old wives' fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness. 8 For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come. Hebrews 13:1 Let brotherly love continue. 2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares. 3 Remember them that are in bonds, as bound with them; and them which suffer adversity, as being yourselves also in the body. 4 Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge. Romans 12:9 Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good. 10 Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another; I don't have any verses that pertain to lesbians, but that is because of the cultural setting back when the Bible was written. It was the nature of a woman to procreate, and they held her virginity until a male who the father deemed appropriate came for her. Back then, a woman couldn't survive on her own, and males were the master of the household. The same does not apply today and such cultural laws shouldn't apply, hence why they are not directly in the Commandments. While I can show you a few instances the Bible has of male companionship in comparison to a heterosexual marriage, I can't really do the same with females. The closest I can come up with is the relationship Jesus' mother Mary had, when Joseph was out of the picture. It referred to Mary Magdalene as the "sister" of Mary. We know they were not of blood relation, but we also know that males who make covenants with each other, often refer to each other as "brother". So the same could be said of both Mary's. Jesus had a covenant with many men, and called them "brother", but only 1 is considered the "beloved", and ironically, it is the brother of Mary Magdalene, Lazarus. So even if the "marriage" between Jesus and Lazarus would have made Mary Magdalene Jesus' "sister in law", it wouldn't have made her a "sister" to Jesus mother. This could imply that the 2 Mary's could have had their own covenant. Jesus did send his mother to live with Lazarus, right before his crucifixion. And both Mary Magdalene and Lazarus were witnesses at the tomb of Jesus. Neither of which would have a reason to be there, except as family to Jesus in one way or another. Mary Magdalene on behalf of Jesus' mother, and Lazarus on behalf of Jesus. Apart from that, there is no law that forbids "homosexuality". Sin is the transgression of the law. Therefor "homosexuality" isn't a sin.
Anyone can make excuses for sin. Lust in the heart is sin, not just acting on lust. People are damaged from same sex situations, every single one. I’ve experienced it before.
You are talking about relationships. I have had very damaging heterosexual relationships. No that is not why I am gay plenty of survivors are straight. This is why I think this whole debate is sad. We distill relationships to p and v. Shouldn't we be talking consent and equality, trust, respect and love.
@@natashabonica4205PREACH!!!! The bedrock of relationships are the love shared and the fruit borne as a result. But all that goes out the window because it isn’t literally in the Bible…. Y’all the spirit of the law vs the letter….YIKES man
Th thing is when we repent and come to Christ our old identify is not longer we now find out identify in Jesus not on our orientation so I disagree on that part when you say it homosexual doesn’t refer to “their identity or orientation.” I say this as a I lived the gay lifestyle for many years and now have to come to the truth by the grace of God. Yes I still struggle w attraction but I don’t act upon it and my identify is in what Jesus did, it’s a process of walking with Him and abiding in Him everyday. Over the the flesh. Putting on the new man and leaving the old behind.
Praise God. May God continue to show you, just like myself, to put on the full armor of God to fight against the wiles of the devil.just remember lusting is sin, but we can overcome through Christ.....and take all thoughts captive when the bad ones come. I say that off and on all day. Satan loves to put bad thoughts in our mind. God Bless!
Praise God. So glad to hear your testimony of salvation. I have the same struggle not looking at porn and going to massage parlors. Sometimes the temptation to do those things is so powerful I don't think I can withstand it.
@@Mike-rm9bb May God keep you when those moments come turn to God pray read His Word or call a brother and sister in Christ that you can talk to, it good to have someone in the faith that can help with Godly advice :) prayers for you. Greater is He that is in you than that who is in the world. We have His Holy spirit who helps us overcome temptations. Blessings !
@@lezzimars6061 Thank you so much for your encouragement. So much temptation everywhere. I am getting accountability counseling to help me. Also prayer from my close brothers in Christ about it. God Bless and strengthen you.
Did view the whole video but the Bible still refers to men lying with men and women being with women doing what is against nature. No matter what the translation...same sex sex is still against God's command and intention. Let God be God and do what only He can in each person's life in the way of healing and deliverance and there's no difficulty
@@exploringrvdude7817 Jesus is the TRUE Light that coming into the world gives light to all men. We must be sure that the light within us is not darkness
@@exploringrvdude7817 I don’t have to defend God, but His Word is the oldest living book of all time and is still the best seller to this very day and always will be, I was a horrible sinner but God saved me from eternal hell, through His Son and He changed me. Ppl want to twist the Word to their on satisfaction, but it will never work with God. He made you and loves you and so do the true born again Christians. The Word is so right...ppl love sin more than God. God Bless!
The problem is with people choosing to indentify as a “homosexual”. I never call anyone a homosexual. You should not refer to yourself and identify yourself so strongly by a feeling of same sex attraction. Feelings are fleeting and when a Christian calls themself a homosexual, they are submitting to their fleshly desires. Why can’t they say I’m a Christian that struggles with same sex attraction?
There is no reason why a gay person cannot identify as "homosexual" because in this context, "homosexual" is an adjective. The reference to someone as "A homosexual" (a noun) is offensive because it reduces all of what that person is to his or her sexual orientation and often pejoratively implies that he or she is homosexually active.
Is calling yourself heterosexual a submission to your own fleshly desires? Or is it a word used to describe a series of physiological responses you have to males that you find attractive? It's not an identity, that I agree with. It's not "fleeting feelings" either, sexual attraction isn't an emotion. It's a word to signify the sex that causes a set of physiological responses you have to sexually-stimulating perceptions. Adam was not commanded to be sexually attracted to Eve, he just naturally was. Adam chose Eve by his own free will, and the bible clearly states that for THAT reason, men shall leave their father and mother and CLING to their wives, meaning staying with them and committing to them based on the attraction they. already. have. People don't just randomly "struggle" with "homosexual feelings" . I don't see how pretending like homosexuality is just a feeling that some people have some of the time is an actual answer to this problem. Straight people stay straight their entire lives, nobody "struggles" with same-sex attraction. People who have the same physiological responses as heterosexuals, but towards stimuli of the same-sex AND lacking any sexual attraction to the opposite sex from the time of puberty throughout their entire lives consistently and without fail, is objectively not an emotion and the attraction is not a choice. Homosexual people are not attracted to ALL members of the same sex either, just like heterosexuals aren't. But Jesus said he who even looks at a woman with lust has committed adultery with her in his heart. Hating your brother is equivalent to killing him in your heart, as Jesus also said. You can't just say that "acting on homosexual desires is a sin" when based on what Jesus said, if all same-sex attraction is inherently lustful, then yes, simply being a homosexual is a sin. I know you don't believe that, but that's the logical conclusion to your belief regardless of if you ignore it. How is something that's not even a choice a moral issue? It's certainly a moral issue when it comes to how that sexuality is expressed, but if it's so important for heterosexual men to have a proper outlet for their sexuality, I don't see how subjugating an entire group of people (based on an immutable characteristic, not an identity) to forced celibacy for their entire life is the right answer.
@@Mike-ej2jw Anyone who is called to follow Jesus will soon realize that in order to do it, you must take off the old self -Ephesians 4:22, Colossians 3:9-10, Romans 8:12-13 etc. When someone is kingdom minded, they know that sharing heaven with the Lord is the treasure. In the meantime, on this earth, we are to take up the cross. That means denying yourself a lot- for some it will be sex. Christ is supposed to be our portion. If you won’t even try denying your fleshly desires, no matter what they are, you can’t claim Christianity.
This is idiotic. Are you a heterosexual? Do you say you're a heterosexual when asked to explain your own attractions? No one is "struggling" because they're a homosexual. They struggle because of people like you who believe they are inherently bad, suffering, flawed, broken, etc.
"Male and female He created them." How do we know that this statement in Genesis has any implications whatever relating to homosexuality? It is not at all obvious.
You don’t think that it’s right for the word “homosexual” to be used in the Bible because you don’t believe it is an accurate translation of any of the ancient words that were used, but you would rather use the word “gay,”when the word gay is inaccurately used in reference to its original meaning (ie, happy)? Why don’t we just use the words that translate the most accurately from the original words? Also, you attempt to differentiate between the adjective and the noun of the word “homosexual,” because you think that by referring to someone as a “homosexual,” you are simply referring to their sexual orientation (ie, whom they are sexually attracted to). Doesn’t the Bible speak about the unnatural desire? I don’t know that this changing of terms truly seems to benefit either side.
@@reese4749 I think you're referring to words being used to mean the same thing, that don't traditionally mean the same thing. Saved and born again are not interchangeable. Saved, rescued, etc. from certain death in some. Born again to walk in a new life, with a new nature, Christ's Spirit guiding your life. You are not born again from death. And you are not saved to a new life. Tedious and very miniscule, maybe, but making distinctions is important. I think that's what the original comment was saying
Your both a true blessing to the soul and inspire me to grow more in my faith. Grew up in a very strict condemning church with missionary parents much like Carmen and those seeds have deeply impacted my faith so its nice to hear you guys keep it real.
"Palestine" was not the name of the land when Jesus walked the earth. It became the name after Jesus. The Roman's named the land Palestine to spite the jews for their rebellion.
Joel 3:4 Yea, and what have ye to do with me, O Tyre, and Zidon, and *all the coasts of Palestine?* will ye render me a recompence? and if ye recompense me, swiftly and speedily will I return your recompence upon your own head;
@@ScriptureUnbroken - notice how the text TRANSLITERATES the two first place name, yet CHANGES the Hebrew פלשת (Pelesheth) to the modern "Palestine"? You just confirmed everything the @A Font has said sir...
@@2besavedcom-7 *Rom **10:13** For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.* How ironical that you write your own scriptures and call it truth. How ironical that there's not a single verse in the bible that tells us to start mixing ancient Hebrew in with our own native languages to understand God's word. How ironical that all across your website you tell people not to believe scripture in English, and then start quoting scripture in English to try prove some point. And how sad that you think you can keep the law, sadder still that you put people under the law and then add your own laws on top. How pathetic are your attacks on Paul. And how idiotic to think there was no J-sound in either English nor ancient Hebrew until about 500 years ago. Who's in control of languages? God. Who gave us the alphabets? God. Who taught us grammar? God. Your heretical cult are not Ancient Hebrew, Koine Greek, nor English experts. The fallacious statements all across your website show great ignorance. You claim that before the rendering of the name Jesus, the English called his name Iesus. In the Geneva bible yes. Geneva = Iesus. KJV = Jesus. Simple transition between 2 languages: middle English and modern English. Who is hælend? It's funny that you great scholars of English never mention hælend in your 'studies'. Where did God dwell before creation? Where was God before he created material time, space, and matter? What is Eternity? *Isa **57:15** For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.* What language was God speaking during the days of creation? *Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.* When did the Hebrew language begin? *Gen 11:7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.* It's incredibly naive and arrogant to consign the eternal name of God to one language. *Zep 3:8 Therefore wait ye upon me, saith the LORD, until the day that I rise up to the prey: for my determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them mine indignation, even all my fierce anger: for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of my jealousy.* *Zep 3:9 For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent.* Today is the day of your salvation, if you will trust on the Lord. Turn aside from your gnostic, self-righteous, damnable works. *Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:* *Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.* Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Rom 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Rom 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Rom 4:7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. *John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.* *1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;* *1Co 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:*
Even if the argument is true, would that make it correct? The Bible stipulates the only correct place for intimate activities is between a man and woman in marriage. It further stipulates marriage is only between man/woman. So, at no time would gay behavior be permitted.
Romans 1v26-27 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
@@blessstanreef2862 Genetic mutation is a part of reality, it doesn't remove the God intended pattern. Do you teach 6 fingers are as usual as 5 on human beings because some get a genetic mutation causing them to have 6?
Wouldn’t it be a bit naive to isolate the verses to talking JUST about the sexual act? Are we to suppose the feelings aren’t fallen either? That would imply gay people are fine but they gotta be sexually repressed virgins till they die. You can’t really have this conversation both ways.
@@Nicolos117 so you follow the laws of Leviticus then? Because Jesus sacrificed himself to remove people from being held to levitical laws from the old testament. 🙃
@@Nicolos117 part of the sacrifice Jesus made stripped us from being beholden to those laws of the old testament, including Leviticus. This is why you can cut your hair, eat pork or shellfish, etc etc. It's all or nothing.
Very good point Sean made towards the end about Genesis beginning with a marriage between a man and woman as a representation of a major theme throughout the Bible and especially concluding in the last part of Revelation about the Holy union of Christ and His Church. This was established by God the Father as a means of providing an inheritance for His Son, with the overall picture centering upon God’s creation of mankind as an expression of His character of Love, one of His many attributes. In and of itself, I don’t see how this explicitly may condemn homosexual relationships, but neither is it to be ignored as part of the overall theme of Creation in portraying a major attribute of the character of Almighty God.
There's a simple way to answer this without condemning.. 1. No adultery 2. No Fornication 3. Lust after a person is considered adultery 4. Marriage is between a man and woman. Anything outside of that is off limit to anyone who wants to inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. Here's a thought, let's stop trying to figure out what sins are ok and what isn't; let the Holy Spirit work in your life and follow Christ. If everyone did that, a lot of these questions would not exist.
If even looking at a woman with lust is adultery from the heart, you are downplaying sin. Without the actual intercourse, even given over to the lusts in the mind is sin. For me to play with the idea to get drunk while buying a bottle of booze is already rebellion against God and His word. You're accountable for what you say to the world on here, strongly advise to go through the comments in here, especially the additional verses regarding this topic!
How you can be a former homosexual. How is it possible. I am gay since i remember. I remember being 6 or 7 years old and being different than others boys. I tryied to change but i only found pain and suffering
There are testimonials on how once gay and lesbian people had their ssa completely gone, was still there but also started to be attracted to the opposite sex, or didn't go away but was able to be managed easier once they accepted Jesus. So the possibility of not having ssa is there. And for those that are Christians that still have it, it's a lot easier to get control over something when you're not participating in it or are constantly exposed to related stimuli. Think of porn as an example. There's an element of self control that everyone has to take when it comes to sex, and we are told in the Bible one of the fruits of the spirit is self control. The Holy Spirit helps when Christians ask for help. The LGBTQ community has a very large hookup culture, so trying to have self control of one's ssa is bound to crash and burn for a lot of Christians with ssa. Granted, same sex behavior is something that is of the flesh so nothing will change for anyone who isn't a Christian because they don't walk with Jesus.
The truth is the word of God. When man tries to spin his own feelings or accommodation to the worlds narrative then he has lost his way and is not in line with Gods word.
Given the constant translation, editing, etc, you don't know the word of god. Hell, the bible was written by people who lived long after the events that were supposed to have occurred therein.
This is just another justification for sin. It doesn't matter if a thought has been acted on. To say" I have gay friends that are celebate" doesn't address the heart issue. So as a man thinketh, so is he. Jesus taught that to hate is to murder, to lust in your heart is adultery. This spits in the face of the power of Jesus atonement and the ability to change the heart of man through salvation.
How Gracious both Sean and Preston are! I strive everyday with wanting to be sharp, loving l, scripture dedicated and devoted Christ followers. Your scholarly dedicated discussion helps in difficulty of today in the desire to omit or add to the scriptures and still be loving and gracious in our testimony of Jesus. God bless you both.
Looking at specific translations is interesting, but a view of sexuality from Genesis to Revelation reveals God’s desire for humans who are made in his image to reveal his life giving love for all people. Male and female created He them! It’s the unity in diversity that is necessary to reveal his character. And it is the potential for creating new life along with the pleasure and faithfulness of marriage that should be emphasized rather than a single prohibition quoted out of context.
Thank you very much for this information to both of you. I’ll like to know if you have any Spanish speakers on your team, we need urgently more revisionist material.
The word "homosexual" appears in only two places in the Bible. 1 Cor 6:9 and 1 Tim 1:10 and it translates the Greek arsenokoitai which was a new word that Paul invented. There is no record of its use prior to those in the NT. The word "homosexual" was invented in 1896 from the German. It was first used in the NT to translate arsenokoitai in 1946. So we have translators who needed to translate a Greek word that no one knows the meaning of, and they chose a word "homosexual" which was only invented almost 2000 years later and say "CLEARLY" that is what Paul was referring to. REALLY??? Male prostitute or pederasty are EQUALLY valid translations of arsenokoitai. BTW I was a Baptist Pastor and Missionary and very proudly gay, medically proven. Happy to explain.
Church! Wake up! Stop debating this issue. Preach Romans chapter one and be done already. These people need real love. Love that speaks the Truth with conviction.
Yes, amen I totally agree. The truth of God's heart for this world is never palatable and people will always nit pick and try to disassemble His Laws and Precepts. He set the pattern for humankind in Genesis, it will not change but sinful man will try to change it. Foolish thinking because God always wins!
1 Corinthians 6:18 Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body.
Modern day bible translation. It wouldn't say that in translations closer to the original. It was more specific in what was being condemned. Whereas, modern bibles use a term like 'sexual immorality' leaving it open for someone to say the term refers to something that wasn't intended to be included. According to the Koine Greek translation, this text would be referring to sexual acts that involved betrayal of one human towards another human, which would be a violation of the Law. So, yes, adultery would qualify. Actually, back then, they distinguished between male adultery and female adultery. Also, a single man that seduces another man's woman would qualify. Rape as well. Homosexuality doesn't qualify as it doesn't involve betrayal of another person's relationship or one's own relationship or forcing one's self upon another without consent or sex with a child.
Jesus" Truly I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the son of man coming in his kingdom with power" Jesus believed he was in the end times
Listeningto this conversation my thoughts are "Whatever happens as a consequence of telling the truth, is the best thing that can happen" Jordan Peterson
That's a good quote. I'd like to point out how much he draws on Carl Jung's work though. The dude claimed to have voices, and spiritual encounters that shaped his work massively. Anyone that relies on that material for anything is.. teetering on very dangerous.
So enjoy listening to both of you, thank you for takeling hard subjects from a biblical perspecetive! I only would comment, that I wouldn't say someone IS gay, but someone feels gay. Saying they are gay is saying God created them gay and that is not truthful. I don't think you believe people are born gay, but it is what it makes me think when you say they are gay. Just a comment, I do appreciate both of you and your message!
@@nursinggirlies perhaps born with those tendencies but doesn't mean they should act on it. We all have temptations we have to resist for the sake of obeying Christ
Scripture is pretty clear on adultery, fornication, and many other sins. The ones that affect heterosexuals, they are very rarely a topic that comes up much. Why, because those affect the majority of human beings that call themselves Christian. It's just easier to go after the easiest targets. Heck, just look at who evangelicals just embraced. A lying, adulterer, who pushes hate, and lusts for money. Hope you all enjoy the golden idol.
The word may not have been used until recent times, but the act was described. When it was described, it was spoken against. Also, not all things we deem as "natural" are "good" in the eyes of the Christian God. Should we encourage sociopaths to continue in their natural inclinations because they're born that way or should we guide them to be reborn and pruned of such acts via God's word? We are naturally selfish. Children are egocentric from birth, yet God does not agree with selfishness and prunes us of it with His word as we remain in Christ and Christ and His word in us. What we deem as "good" in our worldly mindsets is far from what God deems as good. And as the creator of "good", shouldn't He be the one to say what is good. Also, as a Christian, you should trust God's description of good, especially since you agreed to no longer be your own when YOU received Christ as YOUR Lord and savior.
@@hotflash7486 Actually, it does matter! I can tell that you were looking at a Strongs that is recently published. I encourage you to look at older books, such as 500 years ago, to discover why they translated these words as “boy” in most European Bibles. If you studied Hebrew, then you would know that zakar actually translates as “male, man, OR boy”, depending upon context. Most of Europe translated it as “boy”, the English translated it as man. I would encourage you to venture beyond the English language if you truly are serious about studying the Bible.
I started learning ancient Greek when I was 14. Preston, I am not stupid enough to buy the argument that those who argue for a narrower interpretation of “malakol” and “arsenokoites” are basing their argument on modern translations. Rather, they are arguing that the meaning of these words have to be determined from sources contemporary with Paul’s letter itself. This is the standard technique in Classics and in lexicography and has been for centuries.
The problem is that none of the usages of the word give enough context to narrow down its scope. All you can say is that it was a serious secs-related wrongdoing involving at least one male from which people could and did repent. That actually rules out homoxesulaity from scope.
Not sure the primary issue here is the use of the term "homosexual" in the church or translations. Most believers should understand that unrepentant acts are the intent of scripture. If there is a trend of using terms as a noun, then I might contend that is coming directly from the gay community itself sense their general sentiment says "this is our identity" above all else.
Jesus said: Not everyone can accept this teaching, but only those to whom it is given. For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let anyone accept this who can. (Matthew @-12) Here Jesus identifies three classes of men who should not marry women. If we only look at the third category, Jesus mentions eunuchs who were born that way. In the ancient world, including ancient Jewish culture (as reflected in the Talmud), natural or born eunuchs was associated with men with gay tendencies. Jesus very matter-of-factly asserts that some people are simply born that way.
@ken john From your reply ""born that way" is never an excuse for wrong behaviour " Is this not judgemental ??? Jesus told this parable: "Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood up and prayed about himself: `God, I thank you that I am not like other men--robbers, evildoers, adulterers--or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.' "But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, `God, have mercy on me, a sinner.' "I tell you that the tax collector, rather than the other, went home justified before God." While you are pointing the "wrong behaviour" in others, I am a gay man in a loving relationship who calls out to God for mercy ALL day long. LORD JESUS CHRIST, SON OF GOD, HAVE MERCY ON ME A SINNER.
@ken john You wrote a reply to my message "born that way" is never an excuse for wrong behaviour " I'm sorry but from your own words, is this not judgemental ??? My question was do you ask for mercy for your own sinfulness, or are you too busy judging others ? Your reply was then that I am judging you. Yet I am the most wretch of all sinners. At least 200 times a day I say the Jesus Prayer. I am the worst of al sinners, I have no right to jusge you. Yet your comment toward gay people. And I am a gay person is judgmental and condemning . I asked you a question. Do you ask Jesus Christ for mercy for your own sinfulness. Or are you too busy condemning homosexuals ?
@ken john So as you say that being born gay could fall under the same as aggression, addiction, obesity, promiscuity. Will you please then help me. Will you please say the Jesus Prayer with me for a entire week. 20 minutes in the morning and 20 minutes in the evening. On a beaded bracelet, for every bead repeat the prayer. LORD JESUS CHRIST, SON OF GOD, HAVE MERCY ON ME A SINNER. This is a link on how the prayer works. Id be most grateful if you could help me and do this prayer with me. Lets chat again in a week to see if its worked. czcams.com/video/S_VeNg7GE2o/video.html
@ken john It would seem that you are very quick to throw out comments like " "born that way" is never an excuse for wrong behaviour ". Then when I agree with you and seek your help in prayer. With a prayer that I'm comfortable with. You seem unwilling to help me. Why are you not willing to show me any mercy ???? or offer me any help in a way that makes me feel comfortable ? It hardly seems Christian that one would deal out judgments but be unwilling to meet me where I am at. Did Christ not meet you in the messiness of your life and pull you though in a way you could understand. All I ask is that we each do this very simple prayer and each focus on our own sinfulness for 20 minutes twice a day for a week. LORD JESUS CHRSIT < SON OF GOD HAVE MERCY ON MA A SIINER
Why are they splitting hairs? Geeze. Preston's a little too woke for me. Makes me take this channel less seriously. Like, really? This is the most important nugget you got from the Bible?
While I may not agree with the central thesis from which the discussion stems (the divine authority of the Bible) I do want to thank you both for the time and care with which you approached the subject matter. These are questions that should be treated with weight and care.
It seems like the worst this world gets the more some seem to justify and cater to what used to seem pretty clear. These are becoming very difficult times indeed...God loves the sinner not the sin?
I like to listen to opposing sides, and you answer the argument in favor of homosexuality. What is unfortunate, though, is not looking at how some Christians will look at texts used to support anti-gay passages without looking at translation, who was speaking, to whom, the culture, etc., and what effect it has had on lgbtq people, from discrimination in the armed forces, in employment, housing and health care, to gay bashing being common place, sometimes not punished, to the "kill the gays bill" in Uganda from lies of propaganda (such as all gays are after your children). And the most I see is a shrug, a "yeah, that was bad" vs really understanding that the one guy with the gun is one of many people led to suicide. Someone once said to me, "In Christ, I love you, just hate your sin." I said, " Thank you. I love you in Christ as well. And, uh, I also hate your sin." She said, "My sin??? What sin have I committed?" See the problem?
@@christopherscheiber1439 I don't understand your comment. One thing that never led to anything constructive was the "sin is sin" line to justify saying "you with your boyfriend is the same as raping a child." First of all, if I don't believe one sin is as bad as another - telling your kids how your terrible Father's Day breakfast is the same as the Holocaust, means you have to deceive yourself, ignore the horror that is still haunting today, and the white lie was said in love, rather than speaking the truth, which would result in harm. In one online group, a woman asked a gay friend if he had any interest in attending her church with her. The had been going together for 6 months, and the more that time passed, the more troubled she became, because although her church was glbtq welcoming, they were not affirming, meaning they clearly believed homosexuality a sin, and any non repentant queer person was not allowed any position in the church, not even passing offering plates. It's gets even more complicated. Her friend is married to his partner, so she wanted advice. I would feel very distrustful of anyone who had that knowledge but withheld it, thinking that attending her church was a ruse to change me rather than fellowship and worship with a friend. A number of responses were not surprisingly callous, which is why someone may claim to love a gay person but not their sin, even believe it, but I don't know anyone who it is directed at buying it for a minute: Tell you friend to get a divorce. He's not really married anyway. Imagine joining a church, and someone claiming the person you chose to marry isn't a real marriage and tells you to get a divorce like it's nothing. Imagine coming home from church, and telling your spouse your church is demanding a divorce, and if you actually followed the church's order, your heart breaking as you split up and pack your things, sell the house you imagined growing old in, and getting no empathy from the church, more of a "What's the big deal" attitude. And yet, the poster condemns a man in a committed marriage, while showing no empathy, understanding, or even acknowledging the seriousness of what the gay friend was being asked to do. They aren't even in the parking lot of loving their neighbor, but because of their lack of love, are condemning in their judgement and sentence as well. •He that does not love does not know God, for God is love." So, who is more at risk of not having salvation, a married gay guy who want to attend church and have community, or a Christian who demonstrates their lack of love for a whole group of people, lacks fruit of the Spirit, and justifies it with scripture, believing they can decide who is holy enough and worthy enough to be treated with love? So, I keep thinking, shouldn't Christians be a little concerned about modern day pharisees who put so much emphasis on queer people and calling their relationships sin, but because the focus is on sin, esp other people's, they neglect to truly embody God's koce, and Christ's command to love everyone, and often minimalizing love to pointing out others' sin?
The "loving in Christ" would seem rather like disgruntled and ingorant villagers with torches in their hands ready to burn down what they clearly don't understand.
As one speaking from experience, God never puts more on us than we can bear. Therefore, I feel if someone (me included) feels SSA then celibacy is God's way out for us. It is not a restriction it is a blessing.
You don't engage in homosexual practice unless you first have homosexual desire. God looks on the heart. Homosexual practice and desire is everywhere condemned in Scripture and no where commended. Homosexual desire is condemned, just like adulterous lust, even though the act may not have occurred.
If homosexual desire means feeling attracted to someone of your same sex the same way heterosexuals are atracted to people of the opposite sex, then no, it's not a sin. Sexual desire is not the same as lust.
@@giovannimartini6405 The desire to do evil is itself evil for God looks upon the heart. This is the clear teaching of Scripture which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction 2 Pet. 3:16
The real issue is: "what is against nature" (Romans 1v26-27). Giovanni Martini, when you say "SEXUAL Desire is not the same as lust", well, IF a man is LONGING to do romantic things with a woman he doesn't have lifelong commitment for, that's against the Message of Life; that type of lust is therefore evil and against nature . Most CHURCH LEADERS are teaching perversion, scriptures such 2Peter 3v15-16 alerts us of their MISUSE of Love and spreading of "what is against nature" (Romans 1v26-27). Same gender sexual desire is ABOMINATION even if not entertained within, and this is different from noticing of what is ATTRACTIVE/Beautiful in nature or being excited because of sensual-beauty you see in God's Creation. The reason why same gender sexual desire is "against nature" is because it is contrary to how life is sustained here on earth. Man-woman relationship is how life continues here on earth. C. M. Granger, if sinful desire itself is evil, then please CAREFULLY consider Luke 4v5-7 and such instances in MeshiYah's earthly pilgrimage. 1Cor 11v14, "DOES NOT EVEN NATURE ITSELF TEACH YOU ..."; today most Church Leaders don't know how to listen to the Message of Life via nature (the creation, REPRODUCTION, and our dependent-souls). For example, in the last 100 yrs, majority of Church Leaders have radically neglected/rejected the Headcovering Gender Message in 1Cor 11 . i beg you to please consider my writing: "Early Church's View, 1Corinthians 11" at homepage of my website. Use my username to search internet to find my website.
if you're not entertaining those evil desires (e.g., same gender romantic desires), then REJOICE in God's Loving Presence when that satanic spirit tries to harass you. Any evil desire that shows-up in you doesn't mean you're GUILTY of entertaining satanic spirits. Romans 7 talks about such feelings which we must recognize as LYING Feelings and DECEITFUL Thoughts not worthy of our consciousness in God's Loving Presence, HalleluYAH !! @C. M. Granger, Christ Himself had struggles within Him against evil DESIRES (Gethsamane).
Just because evil desire shows-up in you doesn't mean you're GUILTY of entertaining evil. Let your state of being be in God's Loving Presence . IF a single woman has romantic desires for a single man and if both desire lifelong commitment with each other, this type of LUST IS NOT EVIL because it's not against nature and the Message of Life; but if same gender have desire of commitment to each other or desire romance with each other (even if not entertained within) such desires are contrary to the Message of Life because the earth is only sustained by man-woman relationship, not same gender . IF a man is longing to do romantic things with a woman he doesn't have lifelong commitment for, that's against the Message of Life; that type of lust is evil and against nature according to our Maker.
James 4:6-7 But He gives more grace. Therefore He says: “God resists the proud, But gives grace to the humble.” Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.
I wrote my dissertation on this very topic. "How "Should The Black Baptist Church Respond To The LGBTQ Community" and this discussion was my premise. Dr. Walter Cheeks New St Peters MBC
Great video but Catholic brothers and sisters? You mean the religion that teaches works as a means to merit your way into heaven? I get you're trying to be kind and loving but please dont compromise the Gospel in the process...
@@SamD-th5tg www.beginningcatholic.com/tenets-of-catholicism People who understand and believe this stuff. Clear works salvation through the sacraments, idolatry in Mary and their saints, circumventing Scripture through sacred tradition, and elevating a man as the vicar (or representation) of Christ just to name a few. People who believe this are not brothers and sisters in Christ and need to get saved through the Gospel just like anyone else in a false religion.
@@aarons1789 Uh uh no. Start here if you want to understand anything. jimmyakin.com/library/justification-by-faith-alone By the way, considering sacraments a way to "work out" your salvation is like saying they're something we do FOR God, instead of God for us, which is the Catholic understanding. And they're not the only ones with sacraments, so you're banning Orthodox, Anglicans and Lutherans too... The issues with papacy, tradition and saints are what make them not Protestants, but the idea Protestantism is the only way to be a Christian is egocentric and unfair. Doctrine is important, but Salvation comes from Christ, it doesn't come from doctrine.
@@giovannimartini6405 I just started with a massive list of explicitly spelled out Catholic doctrines. I think I understand plenty. What is ironic is how often that article cites Galatians 5. Here is just one bullet point from the article I provided: Only Christ forgives sins; the priests and sacraments are simply the means through which Christ acts to accomplish this. (987, 986) Do you affirm that keeping the sacraments adds grace or merit to your salvation through the forgiveness of sins? What happens if you dont keep the sacraments? Protestantism isn't the only way to be a Christian. Believing the Gospel is. What is unfair is teaching that meritorious rituals somehow helps you salvificly. Again, this is just the most serious error, aside from the pope, maryiology, sacred tradition trumping scripture, etc.
@@aarons1789 Uh, no, Aaron, I respect you, but believe me, you have no idea of Catholicism. You think you do, but you're just full of misunderstandings. Sacraments is like having Jesus doing things for you in a physical way through the ministry of the priest. Your question is like saying what would have happen if the blind man of Jn 9 refused to go through the whole process of getting mud on his eyes and cleaning them. Or if Naaman had refused to bath in the Jordan. Neither water nor mud cleaned them, God could for sure have cleaned them in other way, and they wanting any merit for obeying Him would be stupid. "Oh, I deserve Heaven, I cleaned mud from my eyes as Jesus told me", no. For Catholics, abandoning sacraments would be throwing out a gift just because you're too proud to let God heal you the way He chose, so well, expect that to affect your relationship with Him. But they also believe God gives them grace in other ways too, and no one who put his trust in God is going to hell if he can't receive sacraments or sincerely believes in a non sacramental form of Christianity. Jesus also healed people without even touching them. Catholics see a lot of grave theological errors in non liturgical, Evangelical/Low church ways of Christianity, and however they recognise them as brothers and sisters in Christ and have officialy stated the desire to know them better, without prejudices (you can read "Ut unum sint"). Call me crazy, but I'm adopting this way of looking people.
Preston said that people "left the faith" when they heard "homosexuality", I would say if they were truly that offended they were never truly in the faith the begin with.
Do you think though, these conversations sometimes just turns into a bunch of semantics. Can we not just say that the acts of sexual sin, in any form-which literally pertains to everything outside of sex between a married man/woman- are not favorable to God, and be done with it? I just don’t understand the need for all these crazy clarifications. The church doesn’t need to clarify anything, it’s all there in the Bible for anyone to read study who actually wants to know and cares to seek God for understanding. The church keeps trying to respond to these folks (progressive/inclusive/etc Christians)who are basically trying to rewrite the Bible to justify they’re own inner struggles or to make the Bible more palatable to certain people. Disclaimer: I used to be one of these “love everyone-don’t be divisive-don’t talk about sexuality” people. But God has really been working in me to show me that despite some of the mistakes made by modern Christians (especially in the most recent decades), the judgmental/hypocritical attitudes that have really driven people away from Church, will not be cured by changing the Bible and sugar coating Gods word. The church would do well to start focusing on their individual walks with God and really leaning in to the idea that our WHOLE Job here on Earth is to spread the Gospel and make disciples- Share the Love of God and allow him to change the hearts of people. In reality, every human on Earth is a terrible sinner, and we are incapable of not being. However, we can welcome the salvation that Jesus provided and allow the Holy Spirit to work in our lives, for our whole lives, increasing in Faith and knowledge, and sharing that opportunity for salvation with those who seek a reason for our hope. I could go on.... but I’ll stop... thanks for reading my novel.
it's all BS from start to finish, no one cares what god wants really. have you noticed how many people don't actually keep to ANY of the commandments? in fact the highest populations of christians, and muslims, is prison.
Repentance is a change of direction Not confessing If one has no change in their direction and still walking by there on Accord there is no repentance and that goes for any situation
yeah, true-Repentance is a change of mind, change of the INTERNALS; it is AGREEING with the Message of Life/God, this Confession if real, produces outward FRUITS in accordance with the internal. However, this doesn't mean that a true-Christian is PERFECT outwardly or inwardly but a true-Christian would ACKNOWLEDGE THE TRUTH immediately or sooner or later.
These talkers in this video certainly are gone astray teaching that our Sinful-NATURE from our parents and culture/upbringing is okay . Please checkout my article "God Did Not Create Anyone For Hell", contrary to so many Pastors' satanic VIEW of "predestination". Use my username to search internet to find my website.
I'm gay and I don't care if you believe that I'm a sinner or not. I don't believe in hell or anything or anybody that could judge me. You who belive in hell are building your own judge and grave.
To practice celibacy and still have an attraction to the same sex is defeating the purpose, because sin starts in the mind. Not stating that is sending the wrong message, which need not need to be stated in a disrespectful manner or filled with hatred, but it still needs to be said.
. JESUS is LORD. JESUS is GOD. the LORD GOD Almighty reigns forever and ever. you, too, can be a child of GOD, sealed by the HOLY SPIRIT. please turn away from all of your sins and live all to the glory of GOD alone! GOD bless you! :)
But what about when Jesus says, “Moses said though shalt not commit adultery. But I tell you the truth, if you’ve looked at a woman lustfully, you have committed adultery in your heart already.” ...??? Isn’t the lust for that, whether you’ve acted on it or not make this a non-argument.
Can a “attraction” which one may control by not dwelling on, not following through with fantasies in ones mind, etc. Be different than “lust”. To me lust would mean a long lingering, intentional desire for sex with someone without humbly squashing the thought or feeling quickly and contrite-ly , That is different from someone who knows they have an attraction but does not dwell on it, allow the mind to fantasize, and doesn’t entertain lustful longings.
Sean and Preston, I love your heart for people and desire to be faithful to Gods word and established order at the same time. It comes across. I am curious though: do you think it is helpful to refer to people who struggle with sexual and gender confusion as members of the lgbtq community or gay? Doesn’t doing so simply affirm that artificial identity? Paul tells us that there is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free etc. to dissolve the idols of identity that we hold to exclaim the truth that we are all one in the Lord. To refer to brothers and sisters struggling with such confusion as being a part of this “other” group seems to be of as much value as if Paul were to call tax collectors, adulterers, prostitutes, and thieves members of the tcapt community. That would seem to work against the unifying message the Lord brought. I say all this in goodwill to advance this conversation and better reach brothers and sisters. I have had sexual and gender confusion in my own life, so I speak from-albeit limited-experience. So, I am not simply making academic, theoretical conjecture. In my own confusion over the years, I have noticed how incredibly powerful the words used in this conversation are. By using identity labels like “gay” or “lgbtq,” I felt a hard choice between identities. I felt that I had to choose between this identity or that. It wasn’t until I realized that feelings and desires aren’t indicative of immutable identities but are merely transient experiences within the soul and can-and often do-change over time that I found freedom and relief. I would like to offer that you not use the terminology the ruler of this world has constructed around the topic as he knows that if we play by his rules, no matter how noble the intention, we will lose. Let’s reject his terms of identity and refer to these personal experiences in a more technical way. Instead of saying someone is “gay” let’s be more honest and say they are same sex attracted. That is not an identity but a proclivity. Instead of “transgender,”someone who is experiences gender confusion. That is not an identity but a state of being. Instead of the lgbtq community, people who experience sexual and gender confusion.
At 8:20 you said that they are not "acting out on it" and because of that they should inherit the Kingdom of God. How do you explain then Matthew 5:28 that contradicts your statement and says that there is NO action needed to commit sin but the lustful desire in your heart
The English word, Homosexual, didn’t enter the language until late 1800s. So, regardless, of what one thinks about the accuracy/ propriety of the translation, it would have been impossible to use that word for earlier translations. FWIW.
@D on the contrary but if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive US OUR sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness... However he who covers his sins will not prosper( the last clause is a bit of an understatement)
Well, if you think about it, why isn't the word 'heterosexual' in the bible and found in various places to describe the world's most common relationship? (insert thinking emoji). My view of Genesis is pretty detailed in the sense that it was a story written when humanity was already in existence. It wasn't written at the exact same time God was creating the heavens and the earth an all therein, like the opening of a Walt Disney movie that was being narrated. As such, the author wrote Genesis after humanity and other living things were create. There would be no author of Genesis had he not already been created. The point here is that when the creation story was written, he couldn't write a story with just two males or two females. I say that because that is, seemingly, what some people want to see in the story in order to affirm same sex relationships. Had he wrote the creation story with two males (for example), then that would beg the question, "Where did females come from?" Even further, God made humanity in His image. That means, God's image consists of maleness and femaleness, which sounds gay in some way, but on a more serious note, it's another reason why I think both genders are in the story. Let's also not forget the fact that God did not choose Eve for Adam. God created Eve, but it was Adam that chose her. He chose her after having seen all of the other living things that God had created prior to Eve and God still observed that the Adam was lonely. After Eve was created, it was Adam who was satisfied with what he saw. God didn't force Adam to like her or command that he like her and find her suitable. It was all Adam's choice. That is one lesson in this story: That it is up to individual human beings to choose their own suitable mate. To take the lesson even further, make note that Adam did not find Eve suitable for him because she was female. Nothing in his reaction would imply that. However, it is telling in his reaction that he found her suitable because of her common humanity with him. She was made out of the same bone and flesh as he was. She was human. So, another lesson to found here is that a suitable mate for a human is another human. Why a lot of bible readers don't see these aforementioned lessons is beyond me, but I see them in the details. Now, I'd like to talk about a text that Preston brought up and that's Matthew 19:3-12. Preston (and many others) like refer to this text and point out that Jesus reaffirmed that marriage is only between a man and a woman, but that is not what Jesus was doing in this text. Had the context of the text been about who can marry and who cannot, I would likely agree with Preston (and others), but it's not. Jesus doesn't refer to the creation story to make the point that marriage is only between a man and a woman. He refers to to it in a conversation about marriage between men and women and whether or not a man can divorce his wife for any reason at all. He references the creation not to explain that marriage is only between a man and a woman, but to refer to the creation story's reference to being one flesh and and not putting asunder what God has joined together. In a conversation about husbands putting their wives asunder, Jesus thought it necessary to remind his disciples that "what God has joined together, let no man put asunder". Interestingly, in the same conversation Jesus' disciples seem to react to what He said in verses 8 and 9 in such a way to say, "If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry". In other words, "If men have to stay married to their wives forever, unless the wife commits female adultery, it's better for men not to take a wife! at all!" is how Jesus' disciples reacted to His instructions. What makes this conversation more interesting is that the disciple's words caused Jesus to hop onto another topic. If you've ever been in a conversation where you're talking with one or more people about one thing and somebody says something that makes you think about something else related to what they just said, then you might see that's what happened here. When Jesus' disciples mention how it's good not to take a wife, Jesus segues into the subject of those who will not take a wife. This begins in verse 11 and ends in verse 12. Many people understand eunuchs to only be castrated males, but historically, that's not true. Eunuchs can be castrated males, but they can also be anatomically whole males. Priests are one example. They don't take a wife by choice. Jesus also mentions eunuchs naturally born so from the womb. Based on historical literature I've read on this site (people.well.com/user/aquarius/contents.htm), natural eunuchs were also anatomically whole and with characteristics of today's gay male. They weren't interested in women, but were interested in other males. Read up on that, if you have time. As mentioned, eunuchs could be castrated. Some against their will for crimes they committed. Some castrated themselves for religious reasons. Of course, I bring this part of the Matthew text up to point out that homosexuals (male or female) are a type of eunuch. If male, they don't take a wife. If female, they don't take a husband. I'd also like to point out that God consists of both maleness and femaleness. Also, males don't have any exclusivity on masculinity or females on femininity. There are males who are masculine and straight, as well as masculine and gay. There are males who are feminine and straight and feminine and gay. There are females who are masculine and straight, as well as masculine and gay. Likewise, there are females that are feminine and straight as feminine and gay. A view that says males and females compliment each other due to their masculine and feminine differences, I would agree with, but I would also say that the same could be said for two males or two females. There is no reason that two people of the same gender couldn't become one in a relationship like their heterosexual counterparts. Especially, if the biblical example of God and Christ says they are one. Or, that every male in Christ is considered (along with the female believers) a bride of Christ and married to Him in one way or another. As such, a coming together of two people of the same gender in a marriage doesn't seem that far fetched to me based on these things I've just said. I could get into the "clobber passages" mentioned in the video, but the long and short of it is neither of them are related to the issue of whether or not two people of the same gender are acceptable to God in a loving relationship. Sodom: You can't use a story about intended rape to determine if gay relationships are valid in God's eyes. Leviticus: The texts are about idol worship practices involving same sex acts and those prohibitions are no longer a part of the Law that is now the Law of Christ (Galatians 6:2). Christ's Law replaced the schoolmaster known as the law of Moses (Galatians 3:23-25). 1 Corinthians 6:9 and 1 Timothy 1:8-10: In Koine Greek, these texts are all referring to acts that are the opposite of loving one's neighbor as self. Excellent references on this and the homosexual issue as well can be found here: www.michaelwoodcrypto.com/books. Romans chapter one: In short, Paul used pagan sex practices to reiterate to his audience (Jews being among them) that only the Law of Christ is the Law. Therefore, the law of Moses which condemned such pagan practices as worthy of death are no longer worthy of death under the Law of Christ, as is evident in verse 27 where Paul says their penalty or price to pay was not death, but a body related price to be paid. In verses 28-32, Paul mentions what is worthy of death in contrast to the pagan sex rituals he mentioned in earlier verses. Paul, like Christ, taught that keeping the law of Moses was no longer necessary, which is why the death penalty for a man lying with another man in pagan temples was not repeated by Paul in 1:27. It's also the reason why Paul said in Romans 2:26 that an uncircumcised man is okay with God as long as he meets the Law's requirements and that Law is the Law of Christ, which requires love of one's neighbor as self via a developed character of benevolence, altruism and loving kindness. The law of Moses required Jewish males to be circumcised, but not the Law of Christ. Paul said the uncircumcised man's uncircumcision would be counted as circumcision as long as he keeps the commandments based on the Law of Christ. Likewise, I believe he would say the same in regards to a homosexual person who keeps the Law's requirements: There homosexuality would be counted as heterosexuality.
Heterosexual is in the bible. Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange (G2087) flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. G2087 heteros = strange. Where we get the word heterosexual. And as listed in this passage, they gave themselves over to fornication. For Daniel's sealed scroll, unsealed for this generation, watch/listen to the angel of the Church of Philadelphia: czcams.com/video/7v554QtlGKs/video.html
@@qwerty-so6ml 'Heteros' is a Greek term. My comment was referring to the English term, heterosexual. Just like the English term homosexual is found in some English bible translations, I was asking why isn't the English term heterosexual found in English bibles? I wasn't referring to a Greek term and whether or not it's found in an English translated bible. Jude 1:7 refers to going after 'strange' or 'different' flesh, which would be a reference to angelic flesh. The Greek word 'porneia' is often translated as fornication. Fornication means to have sex outside of marriage. Porneia doesn't mean to have sex outside of marriage. It's meaning is more in regards to having sex outside of one's own marriage. It often referred to female adultery, as Jesus said in Matthew 19:9.(Read "Pauline Paradoxes Decoded" by author Michael Wood for more). 'Porneia' referred to something specific, not something open to anything, like the modern bible term 'sexual immorality' seems to be used as. In close relation to porneia, are pornos (one who engages in porneia) and pornoi (those who engage in porneia). Porneia often referred to female adultery. Pornos referred to the man who engaged in female adultery or the male seducer of another man's woman. As far as I'm concerned, fornication is not an accurate translation of porneia. Porneia was often used in reference to unfaithful women as well in reference to the males who seduced them. The crime being betrayal of one's fellow man by sleeping with his woman. Homosexuality, in and of itself, is not a betrayal of a fellow human.
lack of reverence of God. 1John 4v18 says there's no fear in Love because perfect Love casts out fear; however those who are saying that our Fallen NATURE from our ancestors is okay, are LIARS. What we have here is A MISUSE of God's Love, taking advantage of God in a wrong way: Rev 2v20 "... enjoying foods offered to IDOLS".
@@GraceTruth7 Yes definitely reverence but also love and fear as these verses tell us. Job 28 v 28 And to man He said, ‘Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom; And to depart from evil is understanding.’” Psalm 111:10 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom; A good understanding have all those who do His commandments; His praise endures forever. Proverbs 9:10 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding. Proverbs 15:33 The fear of the Lord is the instruction for wisdom, And before honor comes humility. Proverbs 1:7 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge; Fools despise wisdom and instruction. Proverbs 10:27 The fear of the Lord prolongs life, But the years of the wicked will be shortened. Proverbs 14:27 The fear of the Lord is a fountain of life, That one may avoid the snares of death. Proverbs 19:23 The fear of the Lord leads to life, So that one may sleep satisfied, untouched by evil. Isaiah 33:6 And He will be the stability of your times, A wealth of salvation, wisdom and knowledge; The fear of the Lord is his treasure. Proverbs 14:26 In the fear of the Lord there is strong confidence, And his children will have refuge. Proverbs 15:16 Better is a little with the fear of the Lord Than great treasure and turmoil with it. Proverbs 2:5 Then you will discern the fear of the Lord And discover the knowledge of God. Psalm 112:1 Praise the Lord! How blessed is the man who fears the Lord, Who greatly delights in His commandments. Psalm 128:1 A Song of Ascents. How blessed is everyone who fears the Lord, Who walks in His ways. Psalm 128:4 Behold, for thus shall the man be blessed Who fears the Lord. Proverbs 8:13 “The fear of the Lord is to hate evil; Pride and arrogance and the evil way And the perverted mouth, I hate. Exodus 20:20 Moses said to the people, “Do not be afraid; for God has come in order to test you, and in order that the fear of Him may remain with you, so that you may not sin.” Psalm 19:9 The fear of the Lord is clean, enduring forever; The judgments of the Lord are true; they are righteous altogether. Job 4:6 “Is not your fear of God your confidence, And the integrity of your ways your hope? Proverbs 14:2 He who walks in his uprightness fears the Lord, But he who is devious in his ways despises Him. Proverbs 23:17 Do not let your heart envy sinners, But live in the fear of the Lord always. Psalm 33:8 Let all the earth fear the Lord; Let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of Him. Deuteronomy 14:23 You shall eat in the presence of the Lord your God, at the place where He chooses to establish His name, the tithe of your grain, your new wine, your oil, and the firstborn of your herd and your flock, so that you may learn to fear the Lord your God always. Colossians 3:22 Slaves, in all things obey those who are your masters on earth, not with external service, as those who merely please men, but with sincerity of heart, fearing the Lord. Psalm 34:11 Come, you children, listen to me; I will teach you the fear of the Lord. Proverbs 15:16 Better is a little with the fear of the Lord Than great treasure and turmoil with it. Proverbs 1:7 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge; Fools despise wisdom and instruction. Proverbs 8:13 “The fear of the Lord is to hate evil; Pride and arrogance and the evil way And the perverted mouth, I hate.
DO YOU FEAR GOD ?? Let me know what you teach of 1Cor 11 (headcovering instructions) . How about observing of winter-birth of A Christ, that he was born in December; are you part of a fellowship that does that?
@@GraceTruth7 well the head covering was for the church of Corinth in Paul’s day. Because the church of Corinth was having problems with temple prostitutes. It doesn’t pertain to today.
. JESUS is LORD. JESUS is GOD. the LORD GOD Almighty reigns forever and ever. you, too, can be a child of GOD, sealed by the HOLY SPIRIT. please turn away from all of your sins and live all to the glory of GOD alone! GOD bless you! :)
Have you any idea of the abject misery i live with being homosexual.. as a Catholic i cant marry or become a priest... i am forced to live single and i despise myself... i have nothing to look forward to.. i have nobody to hang out with... i feel depressed all the time
I think i somehow deleted my reply. Anyway I relate and I was saying that there are lots of people discussing these sort of problems we experience on reddit at r/ssachristian.
When 'homosexuality' is spoken against in the Bible the language is about men, and women sinning, unrelated to pederasty or any children being abused by an adult. A Men should not lie with a man, nor a woman with another woman. Period. It is not about child abuse.
I have a sincere question as a new Christian struggling to understand the dislike of both homosexuals and women found in the Bible and church. How does it reconcile to say if you are gay, you don’t get to have meaningful relationships with the Genesis statement from God that it is not man (kind?) to be alone, that (we) need helper?
Homoxesuality is a modern concept that did not exist in Bible times. In the cultures represented in the bible, the assumption was that women were inferior to men, so a male in a woman's role in bed was denigrating. But today we don't have that concept, so when people read the Bible they misunderstand it as being against gay people. Right and wrong in the Bible is about doing good and not hurting people: Micah 6.8, Mat 22.40, Gal 5.6, Rom 13.8-10, John 13.34, etc. Two men/women in a loving relationship can do that just as much as straight people can. We can also look at passages like "it is not good to be alone" to see that they apply to gay couples with no contradiction to the text. The issue with women is similar. The Bible reflects the culture in which it was written. Although at least it did start to be challenged by the Bible's authors, e.g., Jesus was approachable for women, Paul approved of female ministers, men and women were "joint heirs", etc.
Your logic is flawed it is not about the modern interpretation. It is about the proper historical and cultural context in the original languages. When studied that way loving homosexual relationships are not sin. You are falling short by calling it sin.
Unfortunately, it seems as though you’ve missed the point of the video entirely. When Bible critics challenge words and definitions on this deep a level in scripture in their defense of homosexuality or any other act that the Bible itself identifies as sin, it becomes necessary to offer an equally studied and substantive response.
I am an ex homosexual, former alcoholic, ex drug addict, was addicted to porn, anything immoral, anything addictive. I had no self worth, living self destructive. Now even through there are trials, there is a peace where before I only had shame and guilt. My sins were many but Christ has forgiven them all.
Wonderful testimony Dion.
@@beebee9815 thank you!
Awesome
Amazing courage to having lived one way and giving your life to God to make such a drastic transformation. Many blessings Dion! ^__^
There is no such thing as a former homosexual. I'm sorry youve had such a tough life, but lets be honest. The destructive power of religion is probably the reason for your various trials.
Your bookshelves align really well with each other
They dooooo! Lol
Haha, i thought that too
Great teaching...!🤲🙏❤
They're in the same room, that's why
@@evanstein3011 lol they aren't
Romans 1:27 I don’t think the Bible can be any more blunt than this!!!! 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error. (You can’t really mis-translate this. This part of scripture is CLEAR!!!!!!!) The word ‘homosexual’ might be new, but the practice and understanding of what it is, is plain to see in this piece of scripture.
Bingo
And in Genesis when the men want to have forceful relations with Abraham's male guests (who are actually angels) and then God destroys the city.
Right! People are really trying it.
You are more than welcome to “cast the first stone”.
Amen, Jamie! The LORD makes it CRYSTAL CLEAR.
Jesus came to save men out of the world , but men try to demand Christ conform to their world . That will never happen .
Yeah I did the same . Grabbed my fathers gun and was siting at the end of his bed contemplating blowing my own brains out. I don't have homosexual thoughts nor tendencies but I saw no future for my own life. Yet here I am 48 years old and still struggling through life but I know who God is and what He has done for me and to me in my life. It not sunshine and roses all the time. The more I struggle though the more I grab hold of God and the more I do that the more He shows me and teaches me. Only by His grace am I still alive.
Amazing grace!
Heaven is gonna be so good! Life is so short and heaven is eternity. Whatever struggles in this life will melt away in mere moments in the presence of God in heaven. What an exalted place you'll have!! Jesus says so! Those who struggle in this life have special places that are highly exalted in heaven! Hold fast to the promises! Everything is working for your good, for the good of those who believe in Jesus. Oh how good will it feel when he holds you fast in his arms in heaven and says, I've loved you so much, I was with you through everything, welcome home. You are so loved!! 💗💞
But what glories are present here also! The sunshine, birds singing, laughter, sports, cookies, music and all the colors!! If you are able to, wear as many beautiful colors as you can, it always lifts my spirits to see colors everywhere! Oh Jesus you are joy! Thank you Jesus!
@@imoimos we spend 70 years or so on earth...imagine spending 127,324,587,345,198,054,2,121,53,453,4, years doing nohing but grovelling at tour gods need for idolation ...boring..thankfully theres no evidencve that its true...we just die...sorry
@@iampostal have you ever been in love? I mean the feelings are that the other person is amazing and you just like being around them. For Christians it's like that times 1000 but for God.
Faith. Where does that come from? I really don't know, I just know one day I felt a strong urge to know Jesus, like out of nowhere I thought, who is Jesus and why do I feel whoever he is must be good, and since then my life's been on a totally different trajectory. I can say I am 10x better a person now than I was before wanting to know Jesus ... And I don't mean I'm richer, if anything I'm poorer haha ... Or I've gotten more successful or gained more worldly esteem, if anything I've gained less worldly esteem. But the quality of my character ethically has so radically changed that I have to say, something is happening when you want to know Jesus. I can look at my life and see, there's been this change in my nature over time of knowing him and that confirms my faith which truth be told does have moments of doubt ... What's odd is when those doubts start up, something happens that draws me back to Jesus.
I've never felt loved in this way before, which is to say ... When someone loves you enough, understands you enough to want you to become your best self ... and I mean by that, to conform you to Jesus Christ who was selfless, loving, forgiving, gentle, faithful, humble etc.
So yes, eternity with God, knowing he is truly lacking in darkness, lacking in greed, lacking in lustfulness, lacking in domination, lacking in any aspect of darkness that wants to harm for personal gain but is pure, loving and good ... I think that sounds good.
Don't blame him for what people who claim to know him do. His nature is pure, holy and good. When you see a beautiful sunset, a mother holding her young child with love, a person sacrificing their life to save someone else, any goodness, mercy, purity, gentleness and love ... That's reflective of his nature. For me personally, I want to be around that for eternity.
@@iampostal no evidence, huh? Then why does the famous skeptic and atheist, Bart Ehrman, disagree with that?
What has harmed more people gay or not is the definition arrived at by the Kinsey institute in the 60's. They made sexual preference a criterion of human identity and thus homosexuality a taxonomy category. Before that homosexuality was behaviorally determined, a word you attributed to people who engaged in that behavior but now people use it like a separate human category. That's just wrong.
This comment should be pinned to the top of the page.
Go back to Genesis Chapter one and two to see what God intended with his Creation. Our human nature has been corrupted in many ways depending on the individual. Some people love to lie and others have the temptation and desire for sex outside of marriage, this latter term referring to union of a man and woman.
Very well said.
Very true. Studying humanity, and psychology particularly, is just plain wrong because you start to understand all kinds of stuff about behaviour, motivation, people's sense of themselves etc.
@@gregorybezanson Yes, Adam and Eve should have been the perfect couple living in a perfect world, bringing forth perfect children and why? To glorify the living God on earth and this is the whole Plan He had for this world. Now we are living in a fallen world but soon the Lord, our Bridegroom will return for His BRIDE and hallelu'yah, I cannot wait for that day when His truth will shine like the sun.
I've researched this topic a lot. I've read biblical scholars on all sides of the issue. I find it very interesting that older translations, including Martin Luther, use terms similar to boy molester and not homosexual. The original Greek words are difficult to translate into modern day English, but boy molestation was a huge part of the culture back then. At best, all "traditional scholars" can say is that we're not sure, for example, what Paul meant in 1 Corinthians 6:9. From everything I've read, about the only thing you can honestly say is that we don't know if God considers practicing homosexuality sinful.. And if the bible is unclear, many folks are making a huge issue out of this when it shouldn't be and it's harming gay and lesbian people deeply. Where is the love and mercy of Jesus being displayed? Being unsure about it, I try to see if we can determine what harm a married homosexual is causing. Sin harms other people and I don't see how married homosexuals are harming anybody. In addition, why are so many Christians calling out that supposed sin, but not greed, gluttony, selfishness, drunkenness or many, many other sins that cause so much harm in this world?
It doesn’t just talk about homosexuality. The bible literally said that a man laying with a man or a woman laying with another woman is an abomination..
Even Lust after another person that doesn't belong to you is a sin. And we know marriage is for a man and a woman. People need to stop trying to figure out loop holes and what sin they can get away with.
can you point out a passage referring to women having sex with women?
@@rhiannebyron1889 Roman's 1 woman giving up affection for man for a woman
@@rhiannebyron1889 I would ask God to reveal the truth great question, seek and ye shall find knock and the door shall be opened unto you
The old testament does, yes. However if you're a Christian, the old testament and levitical law mean nothing thanks to the sacrifice of Jesus. Jesus never says anything about homosexuality. Perhaps you should know your own religious texts before trying to make claims.
Sinners will always look for a way to alter God's Word to support their ungodly lifestyles.
That’s condescending. God’s word and it’s meaning aren’t always simple to understand, as language has evolved over thousands of years. Translations aren’t simple either. Taking the effort to understand it, is our duty as Christians. And questioning what translations were handed to us by other men, isn’t sinful. It’s lazy to assume we have a complete understanding of the bible.
@@stevenbatke4167 The meaning of the words found in the NT unquestionable mean homosexuality. Even if they were to never come up, which they do, Genesis 2:24 forbids it. Unfortunately like I said earlier however, sinners will always look for a way to soften the Word of God.
@@kylec8950 I don’t see how that verse forbids anything, other than it explains typical marriage. We all filter scripture through our own lens. But hey, if you interpret it that way, that’s your choice.
@@stevenbatke4167 No it's not my choice. That's what God says. It couldnt be clearer. When you twist Scripture around to appease your own sins, you have a real problem with God himself.
@@kylec8950 if you say so...
In Christ, it’s not any “easier” to deal with sexual temptation for a heterosexual than it is for a homosexual. The temptation is just different. We all need to be “transformed by the renewing of our minds”. We are new creatures in Christ and need to have our self identification derived from “being in the Spirit” rather than derived from the fleshly stronghold of who we “were in the flesh”. It takes time but we need the revelation that we really were crucified and raised anew in Christ. He is risen and we are risen in Him. Thanks be to God. 🎚😇📖🙏🏼
And in the spirit, there is neither male nor female. So, must be that the non-binary folks are the closest to God if anyone.
@@Squawk24 In the spirit God is referred to as Father or Abba.(present male tense He) And what you're expounding is gnosticism not the bible and John warns about that being anti-christ.
@@Squawk24 I suggest you take your medications.
Believing in Christ and putting your life in His hands does not change your sexual orientation. To believe so is ridiculous. People who accept the bible as without error is ridiculous. When it was written the people thought in completely different ways about things. They thought the world was flat, they thought the sun revolved around the earth, they thought that rape was the same as having same sex. They were fools and people who take it literally are fools as well.
I disagree with you both and I’m very disappointed with the direction of this dialog. Our use of the term homosexual does not and is not intended to “offend our gay brothers”, both are biological terms that are valid and undoubtedly relevant. Heterosexual (Hetero) = Prefix meaning different and Homosexual (Homo) = Prefix meaning same. No one is “born gay”, although most gays claim that they were. The use of the term homosexual in the Bible is valid and very appropriate. God created us in His image to be heterosexual beings, not homosexual. Contrary to the standard gay mantra “I was born this way”, God created man as a heterosexual being, and created woman as his opposite. We were born, however, as sinful beings, and it is our sinful nature that leads some to seek same sex sexual activity that is contrary to His design. The nonsensical phrase “celibate gay Christian” is an oxymoron. Temptation does not define our sexuality - God does. If a Christian man struggles with same sex temptation, then he struggles with temptation just like we all do. We all struggle in this life with various temptations, most of which we’re better off to avoid.
The so-called “celibate gay Christian” is a celibate heterosexual Christian that struggles with same sex attraction. To define one’s self by our temptations is absurd, its like saying I’m a highly tempted yet abstaining alcoholic Christian that has never had a drink in his life. I don’t say this to offend or define my Christian brothers that struggle with this sinful temptation - I say it to define myself, as I struggle with same sex attraction as well, but God created me to be heterosexual, and who am I to argue with my Creator?
Same sex attraction...is the same as lust. God doesn’t even define the term sex attraction. He refers to sexual immorality, but does mention homosexuality. I don’t care if ppl what to say the translation is wrong. The Bible is the oldest book in the world and still the best seller to this day.
I do pray that God will open the eyes of these ppl before judgement day. God in the 7 churches mention we must overcome....now these are just a few He mentions....if, we want our names written in the book of life, the tree of life, the white stone, the manna....etc.
God Bless!
Thank you both!! I've never heard such loving and compassionate discussion around gay people and gay relationships within the church. This video and many others of yours about the same topic has meant so much to me as a gay celibate Christian, you couldn't even begin to imagine. Some even led me to tears (which isn't a regular thing for me). Just thank you so, so much.
You bet!
You justify your views on sexuality using the accounts of Genesis which are at best mythologies that were borrowed from even older creation stories that we have access to to this day. If you believe Adam and Eve is a real story then you really need to do a little more digging into the foundation of your faith and how humans evolved.
@A J Hmm as far as a "mistake" goes I don't believe there's any on God's part. I think there's true value in celibacy and focusing on God. I'm not celibate to please people like Sean or anyone else. I believe in God's design and plan for his creation. I used to hold a very similar viewpoint to that which you seem to hold. I told Christians that they were being brainwashed to hate themselves and abandon their true identity and chance at enjoying life. However, since then I've experienced Christ's love in a real, truly loving way. Though I may not know why God designed relationships and marriage the way he did, I believe in God's goodness and knowledge far above my own understanding. Ultimately I fail to see a viable case for same sex relationships within the Bible, so I will not engage in those relationships. Aiming to honor God in everything and all parts of my life has proved to be far more fulfilling and purposeful than just looking to satisfy myself and my desires ever were or could possibly be. I don't see it as self-hatred, I see it as a test of faith and trust in God's sovereignty. I personally don't pray to not be gay, nor do I see much value in conversion therapy. I ask for God's grace and to keep making me more like himself each day. My identity in Christ far surpasses any other component of who I am. I'm sorry if either of us has caused you to feel like you should hate yourself or doubt God's character. I don't hate myself, I'm least miserable I've ever been, and I know I'm still loved my God through the entire process
@A J uuhh no many times we all have sexual desires that anyone with common sense can see would be impure..humans are fallen and imperfect creatures which is the very reason we need Christ..but yeah I can understand those who don't believe in Christ hating the idea of God or hating Christianity for the very reason that it expects us to deny some of our desires..but those who believe they've received Christ can live a perfectly joyful life, not indulging in their desires, cuz they're looking towards what's to come after this life..however, without that view of a Christain afterlife so to speak then yeah living a life resisting our desires would be miserable cuz u don't perceive any reward for doing so..if thats your position I understand..but for u to assume that everyone who doesn't see the world the way u do is miserable?? pretty presumptuous and ignorant
@@christinaiverson2009 1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
6 If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.
7 But refuse profane and old wives' fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness.
8 For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come.
Hebrews 13:1 Let brotherly love continue.
2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.
3 Remember them that are in bonds, as bound with them; and them which suffer adversity, as being yourselves also in the body.
4 Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.
Romans 12:9 Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.
10 Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another;
I don't have any verses that pertain to lesbians, but that is because of the cultural setting back when the Bible was written. It was the nature of a woman to procreate, and they held her virginity until a male who the father deemed appropriate came for her. Back then, a woman couldn't survive on her own, and males were the master of the household. The same does not apply today and such cultural laws shouldn't apply, hence why they are not directly in the Commandments. While I can show you a few instances the Bible has of male companionship in comparison to a heterosexual marriage, I can't really do the same with females. The closest I can come up with is the relationship Jesus' mother Mary had, when Joseph was out of the picture. It referred to Mary Magdalene as the "sister" of Mary. We know they were not of blood relation, but we also know that males who make covenants with each other, often refer to each other as "brother". So the same could be said of both Mary's. Jesus had a covenant with many men, and called them "brother", but only 1 is considered the "beloved", and ironically, it is the brother of Mary Magdalene, Lazarus. So even if the "marriage" between Jesus and Lazarus would have made Mary Magdalene Jesus' "sister in law", it wouldn't have made her a "sister" to Jesus mother. This could imply that the 2 Mary's could have had their own covenant. Jesus did send his mother to live with Lazarus, right before his crucifixion. And both Mary Magdalene and Lazarus were witnesses at the tomb of Jesus. Neither of which would have a reason to be there, except as family to Jesus in one way or another. Mary Magdalene on behalf of Jesus' mother, and Lazarus on behalf of Jesus.
Apart from that, there is no law that forbids "homosexuality". Sin is the transgression of the law. Therefor "homosexuality" isn't a sin.
Anyone can make excuses for sin. Lust in the heart is sin, not just acting on lust.
People are damaged from same sex situations, every single one. I’ve experienced it before.
I'm gay and have never been damaged by having a relationship with a man. Please elaborate on how these relationships are inherently harmful.
You are talking about relationships. I have had very damaging heterosexual relationships. No that is not why I am gay plenty of survivors are straight.
This is why I think this whole debate is sad. We distill relationships to p and v. Shouldn't we be talking consent and equality, trust, respect and love.
Amen Dina
@@hnaoto2 😆 Good for you. I think love/relationships makes us better and healthier people.
@@natashabonica4205PREACH!!!! The bedrock of relationships are the love shared and the fruit borne as a result. But all that goes out the window because it isn’t literally in the Bible….
Y’all the spirit of the law vs the letter….YIKES man
Th thing is when we repent and come to Christ our old identify is not longer we now find out identify in Jesus not on our orientation so I disagree on that part when you say it homosexual doesn’t refer to “their identity or orientation.” I say this as a I lived the gay lifestyle for many years and now have to come to the truth by the grace of God. Yes I still struggle w attraction but I don’t act upon it and my identify is in what Jesus did, it’s a process of walking with Him and abiding in Him everyday. Over the the flesh. Putting on the new man and leaving the old behind.
Praise God. May God continue to show you, just like myself, to put on the full armor of God to fight against the wiles of the devil.just remember lusting is sin, but we can overcome through Christ.....and take all thoughts captive when the bad ones come. I say that off and on all day. Satan loves to put bad thoughts in our mind.
God Bless!
@@patricianastasi6885 thank you! God bless you 😊
Praise God. So glad to hear your testimony of salvation.
I have the same struggle not looking at porn and going to massage parlors.
Sometimes the temptation to do those things is so powerful I don't think I can withstand it.
@@Mike-rm9bb May God keep you when those moments come turn to God pray read His Word or call a brother and sister in Christ that you can talk to, it good to have someone in the faith that can help with Godly advice :) prayers for you. Greater is He that is in you than that who is in the world. We have His Holy spirit who helps us overcome temptations. Blessings !
@@lezzimars6061 Thank you so much for your encouragement. So much temptation everywhere. I am getting accountability counseling to help me. Also prayer from my close brothers in Christ about it.
God Bless and strengthen you.
How can you be a saved born again follower of Jesus Christ if you don’t admit you are a sinner in need of the savior?
Amen!!! ❤🙌
Thank you! From Saudi Arabia! I really appreciate such a thoughtful and gentle discussion around this topic.
Did view the whole video but the Bible still refers to men lying with men and women being with women doing what is against nature. No matter what the translation...same sex sex is still against God's command and intention. Let God be God and do what only He can in each person's life in the way of healing and deliverance and there's no difficulty
Uh, no. Wake and and realize the Bible is words written on paper by people of a different era who weren't enlightened.
@@exploringrvdude7817 Jesus is the TRUE Light that coming into the world gives light to all men. We must be sure that the light within us is not darkness
@@exploringrvdude7817 Bible says the Word of God doesn't change. So there is no such a thing as different era
@@marv6013 The bible says a lot of silly things. Doesn't make them true.
@@exploringrvdude7817
I don’t have to defend God, but His Word is the oldest living book of all time and is still the best seller to this very day and always will be,
I was a horrible sinner but God saved me from eternal hell, through His Son and He changed me.
Ppl want to twist the Word to their on satisfaction, but it will never work with God. He made you and loves you and so do the true born again Christians.
The Word is so right...ppl love sin more than God.
God Bless!
The problem is with people choosing to indentify as a “homosexual”. I never call anyone a homosexual. You should not refer to yourself and identify yourself so strongly by a feeling of same sex attraction. Feelings are fleeting and when a Christian calls themself a homosexual, they are submitting to their fleshly desires. Why can’t they say I’m a Christian that struggles with same sex attraction?
There is no reason why a gay person cannot identify as "homosexual" because in this context, "homosexual" is an adjective. The reference to someone as "A homosexual" (a noun) is offensive because it reduces all of what that person is to his or her sexual orientation and often pejoratively implies that he or she is homosexually active.
Is calling yourself heterosexual a submission to your own fleshly desires? Or is it a word used to describe a series of physiological responses you have to males that you find attractive? It's not an identity, that I agree with. It's not "fleeting feelings" either, sexual attraction isn't an emotion. It's a word to signify the sex that causes a set of physiological responses you have to sexually-stimulating perceptions. Adam was not commanded to be sexually attracted to Eve, he just naturally was. Adam chose Eve by his own free will, and the bible clearly states that for THAT reason, men shall leave their father and mother and CLING to their wives, meaning staying with them and committing to them based on the attraction they. already. have. People don't just randomly "struggle" with "homosexual feelings" . I don't see how pretending like homosexuality is just a feeling that some people have some of the time is an actual answer to this problem. Straight people stay straight their entire lives, nobody "struggles" with same-sex attraction. People who have the same physiological responses as heterosexuals, but towards stimuli of the same-sex AND lacking any sexual attraction to the opposite sex from the time of puberty throughout their entire lives consistently and without fail, is objectively not an emotion and the attraction is not a choice. Homosexual people are not attracted to ALL members of the same sex either, just like heterosexuals aren't. But Jesus said he who even looks at a woman with lust has committed adultery with her in his heart. Hating your brother is equivalent to killing him in your heart, as Jesus also said. You can't just say that "acting on homosexual desires is a sin" when based on what Jesus said, if all same-sex attraction is inherently lustful, then yes, simply being a homosexual is a sin. I know you don't believe that, but that's the logical conclusion to your belief regardless of if you ignore it. How is something that's not even a choice a moral issue? It's certainly a moral issue when it comes to how that sexuality is expressed, but if it's so important for heterosexual men to have a proper outlet for their sexuality, I don't see how subjugating an entire group of people (based on an immutable characteristic, not an identity) to forced celibacy for their entire life is the right answer.
@@Mike-ej2jw Anyone who is called to follow Jesus will soon realize that in order to do it, you must take off the old self -Ephesians 4:22, Colossians 3:9-10, Romans 8:12-13 etc.
When someone is kingdom minded, they know that sharing heaven with the Lord is the treasure. In the meantime, on this earth, we are to take up the cross. That means denying yourself a lot- for some it will be sex.
Christ is supposed to be our portion. If you won’t even try denying your fleshly desires, no matter what they are, you can’t claim Christianity.
Do you know how insulting it is to be called a liar, should we not call that a spade either? What about thief, adultery, rapist, pedophile etc?
This is idiotic. Are you a heterosexual? Do you say you're a heterosexual when asked to explain your own attractions? No one is "struggling" because they're a homosexual. They struggle because of people like you who believe they are inherently bad, suffering, flawed, broken, etc.
"Male and female He created them." How do we know that this statement in Genesis has any implications whatever relating to homosexuality? It is not at all obvious.
Off topic, but “Sprinkle” is such a cute last name.
yeah it's a shame his first names aren't hugh janus eh?
@@HarryNicNicholas lol 😂🤩
You don’t think that it’s right for the word “homosexual” to be used in the Bible because you don’t believe it is an accurate translation of any of the ancient words that were used, but you would rather use the word “gay,”when the word gay is inaccurately used in reference to its original meaning (ie, happy)? Why don’t we just use the words that translate the most accurately from the original words?
Also, you attempt to differentiate between the adjective and the noun of the word “homosexual,” because you think that by referring to someone as a “homosexual,” you are simply referring to their sexual orientation (ie, whom they are sexually attracted to). Doesn’t the Bible speak about the unnatural desire? I don’t know that this changing of terms truly seems to benefit either side.
I’m a little confused. Are you saved (aka “born again”)?
@@reese4749 I think you're referring to words being used to mean the same thing, that don't traditionally mean the same thing. Saved and born again are not interchangeable. Saved, rescued, etc. from certain death in some. Born again to walk in a new life, with a new nature, Christ's Spirit guiding your life. You are not born again from death. And you are not saved to a new life. Tedious and very miniscule, maybe, but making distinctions is important. I think that's what the original comment was saying
@@dmeek20 the christian mythology is indeed tedious. go out in the sun and play. ffs.
@@HarryNicNicholas nice, intelligent response. I wish you well, friend. I'll discuss things, but won't engage in slander and condescension
Your both a true blessing to the soul and inspire me to grow more in my faith. Grew up in a very strict condemning church with missionary parents much like Carmen and those seeds have deeply impacted my faith so its nice to hear you guys keep it real.
Not really
czcams.com/video/u5GBPk0c01s/video.html
"blessing" religion is for the sick minded.
@@HarryNicNicholas true, but only for all the false religions. Not the single true one.
"Palestine" was not the name of the land when Jesus walked the earth. It became the name after Jesus. The Roman's named the land Palestine to spite the jews for their rebellion.
Joel 3:4 Yea, and what have ye to do with me, O Tyre, and Zidon, and *all the coasts of Palestine?* will ye render me a recompence? and if ye recompense me, swiftly and speedily will I return your recompence upon your own head;
@@ScriptureUnbroken - notice how the text TRANSLITERATES the two first place name, yet CHANGES the Hebrew פלשת (Pelesheth) to the modern "Palestine"? You just confirmed everything the @A Font has said sir...
@@2besavedcom-7 And your people are cult heretics that think the eternal name of God is Hebrew.
@@ScriptureUnbroken - "...everyone who calls on the Name of יהוה shall be delivered."
Not my words, but the WORD is the truth sir.
@@2besavedcom-7 *Rom **10:13** For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.*
How ironical that you write your own scriptures and call it truth. How ironical that there's not a single verse in the bible that tells us to start mixing ancient Hebrew in with our own native languages to understand God's word. How ironical that all across your website you tell people not to believe scripture in English, and then start quoting scripture in English to try prove some point. And how sad that you think you can keep the law, sadder still that you put people under the law and then add your own laws on top. How pathetic are your attacks on Paul. And how idiotic to think there was no J-sound in either English nor ancient Hebrew until about 500 years ago.
Who's in control of languages? God.
Who gave us the alphabets? God.
Who taught us grammar? God.
Your heretical cult are not Ancient Hebrew, Koine Greek, nor English experts.
The fallacious statements all across your website show great ignorance.
You claim that before the rendering of the name Jesus, the English called his name Iesus. In the Geneva bible yes. Geneva = Iesus. KJV = Jesus. Simple transition between 2 languages: middle English and modern English.
Who is hælend?
It's funny that you great scholars of English never mention hælend in your 'studies'.
Where did God dwell before creation?
Where was God before he created material time, space, and matter? What is Eternity?
*Isa **57:15** For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.*
What language was God speaking during the days of creation?
*Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.*
When did the Hebrew language begin?
*Gen 11:7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.*
It's incredibly naive and arrogant to consign the eternal name of God to one language.
*Zep 3:8 Therefore wait ye upon me, saith the LORD, until the day that I rise up to the prey: for my determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them mine indignation, even all my fierce anger: for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of my jealousy.*
*Zep 3:9 For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent.*
Today is the day of your salvation, if you will trust on the Lord. Turn aside from your gnostic, self-righteous, damnable works.
*Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:*
*Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.*
Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Rom 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Rom 4:7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
*John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.*
*1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;*
*1Co 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:*
Creating your own belief = idolatry.
By the logic you’ve used here, you’ve done the same.
Even if the argument is true, would that make it correct? The Bible stipulates the only correct place for intimate activities is between a man and woman in marriage. It further stipulates marriage is only between man/woman. So, at no time would gay behavior be permitted.
Romans 1v26-27 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
boom!!
against nature?? what about hermaphrodites?? guys who can get pregnant or the ones born with the opposite gential
@@blessstanreef2862 yep! You’ve figured it all out. Now Christianity the world over can change their erroneous ways dating back thousands of years.
@@blessstanreef2862 a very few miniscule amount. The same as those with other deformities.
@@blessstanreef2862
Genetic mutation is a part of reality, it doesn't remove the God intended pattern. Do you teach 6 fingers are as usual as 5 on human beings because some get a genetic mutation causing them to have 6?
Dude. Sean has such a crazy pulse on culture. I'm always stunned by his demeanor combined with his focus.
Wouldn’t it be a bit naive to isolate the verses to talking JUST about the sexual act? Are we to suppose the feelings aren’t fallen either? That would imply gay people are fine but they gotta be sexually repressed virgins till they die. You can’t really have this conversation both ways.
Not really
czcams.com/video/u5GBPk0c01s/video.html
The ancient Christians had no concept of sexual orientation as we understand it today, so that is not mentioned anywhere.
@@hnaoto2 No they did, notering new
Feelings whether heterosexual/lgbtq+ are fallen
Short answer "no, its not a mistranslation." Saved you an hour long video.
The Bible also says that a man sleeping with a man is an abomination.
@@Nicolos117 so you follow the laws of Leviticus then? Because Jesus sacrificed himself to remove people from being held to levitical laws from the old testament. 🙃
@@hnaoto2 ?
@@Nicolos117 part of the sacrifice Jesus made stripped us from being beholden to those laws of the old testament, including Leviticus. This is why you can cut your hair, eat pork or shellfish, etc etc. It's all or nothing.
Very good point Sean made towards the end about Genesis beginning with a marriage between a man and woman as a representation of a major theme throughout the Bible and especially concluding in the last part of Revelation about the Holy union of Christ and His Church. This was established by God the Father as a means of providing an inheritance for His Son, with the overall picture centering upon God’s creation of mankind as an expression of His character of Love, one of His many attributes. In and of itself, I don’t see how this explicitly may condemn homosexual relationships, but neither is it to be ignored as part of the overall theme of Creation in portraying a major attribute of the character of Almighty God.
Thank you, Sean and Preston! Can't wait for the next interview in August. May the Lord's richest blessings be with you.
Glad you enjoyed it!
There's a simple way to answer this without condemning..
1. No adultery
2. No Fornication
3. Lust after a person is considered adultery
4. Marriage is between a man and woman. Anything outside of that is off limit to anyone who wants to inherit the Kingdom of Heaven.
Here's a thought, let's stop trying to figure out what sins are ok and what isn't; let the Holy Spirit work in your life and follow Christ. If everyone did that, a lot of these questions would not exist.
If even looking at a woman with lust is adultery from the heart, you are downplaying sin. Without the actual intercourse, even given over to the lusts in the mind is sin. For me to play with the idea to get drunk while buying a bottle of booze is already rebellion against God and His word. You're accountable for what you say to the world on here, strongly advise to go through the comments in here, especially the additional verses regarding this topic!
How you can be a former homosexual. How is it possible. I am gay since i remember. I remember being 6 or 7 years old and being different than others boys.
I tryied to change but i only found pain and suffering
Not really
czcams.com/video/u5GBPk0c01s/video.html
There are testimonials on how once gay and lesbian people had their ssa completely gone, was still there but also started to be attracted to the opposite sex, or didn't go away but was able to be managed easier once they accepted Jesus. So the possibility of not having ssa is there. And for those that are Christians that still have it, it's a lot easier to get control over something when you're not participating in it or are constantly exposed to related stimuli. Think of porn as an example. There's an element of self control that everyone has to take when it comes to sex, and we are told in the Bible one of the fruits of the spirit is self control. The Holy Spirit helps when Christians ask for help. The LGBTQ community has a very large hookup culture, so trying to have self control of one's ssa is bound to crash and burn for a lot of Christians with ssa. Granted, same sex behavior is something that is of the flesh so nothing will change for anyone who isn't a Christian because they don't walk with Jesus.
The truth is the word of God. When man tries to spin his own feelings or accommodation to the worlds narrative then he has lost his way and is not in line with Gods word.
I fully agree. Parts of this video were painful to listen to at times.
Given the constant translation, editing, etc, you don't know the word of god. Hell, the bible was written by people who lived long after the events that were supposed to have occurred therein.
I recognize it’s superficial, but I simply can’t take Sean seriously with that haircut.
For reals! What was that one comedian that had that? There was a cartoon.
This is just another justification for sin. It doesn't matter if a thought has been acted on. To say" I have gay friends that are celebate" doesn't address the heart issue. So as a man thinketh, so is he. Jesus taught that to hate is to murder, to lust in your heart is adultery. This spits in the face of the power of Jesus atonement and the ability to change the heart of man through salvation.
How Gracious both Sean and Preston are! I strive everyday with wanting to be sharp, loving l, scripture dedicated and devoted Christ followers. Your scholarly dedicated discussion helps in difficulty of today in the desire to omit or add to the scriptures and still be loving and gracious in our testimony of Jesus. God bless you both.
Looking at specific translations is interesting, but a view of sexuality from Genesis to Revelation reveals God’s desire for humans who are made in his image to reveal his life giving love for all people. Male and female created He them! It’s the unity in diversity that is necessary to reveal his character. And it is the potential for creating new life along with the pleasure and faithfulness of marriage that should be emphasized rather than a single prohibition quoted out of context.
Thank you very much for this information to both of you. I’ll like to know if you have any Spanish speakers on your team, we need urgently more revisionist material.
Great topic, and great fair, and loving discussion of it!
The word "homosexual" appears in only two places in the Bible. 1 Cor 6:9 and 1 Tim 1:10 and it translates the Greek arsenokoitai which was a new word that Paul invented. There is no record of its use prior to those in the NT. The word "homosexual" was invented in 1896 from the German. It was first used in the NT to translate arsenokoitai in 1946.
So we have translators who needed to translate a Greek word that no one knows the meaning of, and they chose a word "homosexual" which was only invented almost 2000 years later and say "CLEARLY" that is what Paul was referring to. REALLY???
Male prostitute or pederasty are EQUALLY valid translations of arsenokoitai. BTW I was a Baptist Pastor and Missionary and very proudly gay, medically proven. Happy to explain.
Your background/bookshelves are literally identical - it's messing with my head lol
It’s “not” messing with my ocd. 😂
Church! Wake up! Stop debating this issue. Preach Romans chapter one and be done already. These people need real love. Love that speaks the Truth with conviction.
Yes, amen I totally agree. The truth of God's heart for this world is never palatable and people will always nit pick and try to disassemble His Laws and Precepts. He set the pattern for humankind in Genesis, it will not change but sinful man will try to change it. Foolish thinking because God always wins!
you know you're creating more atheists with this bullshit? by all means keep it up but you are such a twat.
1 Corinthians 6:18
Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body.
Modern day bible translation. It wouldn't say that in translations closer to the original. It was more specific in what was being condemned. Whereas, modern bibles use a term like 'sexual immorality' leaving it open for someone to say the term refers to something that wasn't intended to be included.
According to the Koine Greek translation, this text would be referring to sexual acts that involved betrayal of one human towards another human, which would be a violation of the Law. So, yes, adultery would qualify. Actually, back then, they distinguished between male adultery and female adultery. Also, a single man that seduces another man's woman would qualify. Rape as well. Homosexuality doesn't qualify as it doesn't involve betrayal of another person's relationship or one's own relationship or forcing one's self upon another without consent or sex with a child.
if each translation says different things how do we know they are right?
The great apostae! What more evidence do we need that were living in the last days? Come Lord Jesus, come quickly!
Agreed
Amen, we were warned!
Jesus" Truly I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the son of man coming in his kingdom with power" Jesus believed he was in the end times
Listeningto this conversation my thoughts are "Whatever happens as a consequence of telling the truth, is the best thing that can happen" Jordan Peterson
That's a good quote. I'd like to point out how much he draws on Carl Jung's work though. The dude claimed to have voices, and spiritual encounters that shaped his work massively. Anyone that relies on that material for anything is.. teetering on very dangerous.
@@axian8102 point well taken.
So enjoy listening to both of you, thank you for takeling hard subjects from a biblical perspecetive! I only would comment, that I wouldn't say someone IS gay, but someone feels gay. Saying they are gay is saying God created them gay and that is not truthful. I don't think you believe people are born gay, but it is what it makes me think when you say they are gay. Just a comment, I do appreciate both of you and your message!
A lot of the time, they are born gay?
Not really
czcams.com/video/u5GBPk0c01s/video.html
@@nursinggirlies perhaps born with those tendencies but doesn't mean they should act on it. We all have temptations we have to resist for the sake of obeying Christ
Scripture is pretty clear on adultery, fornication, and many other sins. The ones that affect heterosexuals, they are very rarely a topic that comes up much. Why, because those affect the majority of human beings that call themselves Christian. It's just easier to go after the easiest targets. Heck, just look at who evangelicals just embraced. A lying, adulterer, who pushes hate, and lusts for money. Hope you all enjoy the golden idol.
The word may not have been used until recent times, but the act was described. When it was described, it was spoken against. Also, not all things we deem as "natural" are "good" in the eyes of the Christian God. Should we encourage sociopaths to continue in their natural inclinations because they're born that way or should we guide them to be reborn and pruned of such acts via God's word? We are naturally selfish. Children are egocentric from birth, yet God does not agree with selfishness and prunes us of it with His word as we remain in Christ and Christ and His word in us. What we deem as "good" in our worldly mindsets is far from what God deems as good. And as the creator of "good", shouldn't He be the one to say what is good. Also, as a Christian, you should trust God's description of good, especially since you agreed to no longer be your own when YOU received Christ as YOUR Lord and savior.
"Zakar" means "male" in Hebrew. So, Leviticus 18:20 literally means "male who sleeps with male". Zakar has no age determination.
Then why do you think most European Bibles for most of history translated it as “boy”?
@@mountainguy7762 It doesn't matter why it was mistranslated to "boy ". Zakar simply means "male". Please see Strong's Concordance.
@@hotflash7486 Actually, it does matter! I can tell that you were looking at a Strongs that is recently published. I encourage you to look at older books, such as 500 years ago, to discover why they translated these words as “boy” in most European Bibles. If you studied Hebrew, then you would know that zakar actually translates as “male, man, OR boy”, depending upon context. Most of Europe translated it as “boy”, the English translated it as man. I would encourage you to venture beyond the English language if you truly are serious about studying the Bible.
@@mountainguy7762 No Sir. Male to male sex, regardless of age, is still a sin. That's why it doesn't matter. God bless 🙏
@@hotflash7486 not according to the Bible! I’m guessing you have never studied Greek or Hebrew at an academic level, am I correct?
So, we are going to split hairs-now! Scripture is very clear to not lay with same sex people!
I started learning ancient Greek when I was 14.
Preston, I am not stupid enough to buy the argument that those who argue for a narrower interpretation of “malakol” and “arsenokoites” are basing their argument on modern translations. Rather, they are arguing that the meaning of these words have to be determined from sources contemporary with Paul’s letter itself.
This is the standard technique in
Classics and in lexicography and has been for centuries.
The problem is that none of the usages of the word give enough context to narrow down its scope. All you can say is that it was a serious secs-related wrongdoing involving at least one male from which people could and did repent. That actually rules out homoxesulaity from scope.
Not sure the primary issue here is the use of the term "homosexual" in the church or translations. Most believers should understand that unrepentant acts are the intent of scripture. If there is a trend of using terms as a noun, then I might contend that is coming directly from the gay community itself sense their general sentiment says "this is our identity" above all else.
Jesus said: Not everyone can accept this teaching, but only those to whom it is given. For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let anyone accept this who can. (Matthew @-12) Here Jesus identifies three classes of men who should not marry women. If we only look at the third category, Jesus mentions eunuchs who were born that way. In the ancient world, including ancient Jewish culture (as reflected in the Talmud), natural or born eunuchs was associated with men with gay tendencies. Jesus very matter-of-factly asserts that some people are simply born that way.
@ken john Do you ask Jesus Christ for mercy for your own sinfulness, or are you too busy judging others ?
@ken john From your reply ""born that way" is never an excuse for wrong behaviour " Is this not judgemental ???
Jesus told this parable: "Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood up and prayed about himself: `God, I thank you that I am not like other men--robbers, evildoers, adulterers--or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.' "But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, `God, have mercy on me, a sinner.' "I tell you that the tax collector, rather than the other, went home justified before God."
While you are pointing the "wrong behaviour" in others, I am a gay man in a loving relationship who calls out to God for mercy ALL day long.
LORD JESUS CHRIST, SON OF GOD, HAVE MERCY ON ME A SINNER.
@ken john You wrote a reply to my message "born that way" is never an excuse for wrong behaviour "
I'm sorry but from your own words, is this not judgemental ??? My question was do you ask for mercy for your own sinfulness, or are you too busy judging others ?
Your reply was then that I am judging you. Yet I am the most wretch of all sinners. At least 200 times a day I say the Jesus Prayer.
I am the worst of al sinners, I have no right to jusge you. Yet your comment toward gay people. And I am a gay person is judgmental and condemning .
I asked you a question. Do you ask Jesus Christ for mercy for your own sinfulness. Or are you too busy condemning homosexuals ?
@ken john So as you say that being born gay could fall under the same as aggression, addiction, obesity, promiscuity.
Will you please then help me. Will you please say the Jesus Prayer with me for a entire week. 20 minutes in the morning and 20 minutes in the evening.
On a beaded bracelet, for every bead repeat the prayer.
LORD JESUS CHRIST, SON OF GOD, HAVE MERCY ON ME A SINNER.
This is a link on how the prayer works. Id be most grateful if you could help me and do this prayer with me. Lets chat again in a week to see if its worked.
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@ken john It would seem that you are very quick to throw out comments like " "born that way" is never an excuse for wrong behaviour ".
Then when I agree with you and seek your help in prayer. With a prayer that I'm comfortable with. You seem unwilling to help me.
Why are you not willing to show me any mercy ???? or offer me any help in a way that makes me feel comfortable ?
It hardly seems Christian that one would deal out judgments but be unwilling to meet me where I am at.
Did Christ not meet you in the messiness of your life and pull you though in a way you could understand.
All I ask is that we each do this very simple prayer and each focus on our own sinfulness for 20 minutes twice a day for a week.
LORD JESUS CHRSIT < SON OF GOD HAVE MERCY ON MA A SIINER
Why are they splitting hairs? Geeze. Preston's a little too woke for me. Makes me take this channel less seriously. Like, really? This is the most important nugget you got from the Bible?
While I may not agree with the central thesis from which the discussion stems (the divine authority of the Bible) I do want to thank you both for the time and care with which you approached the subject matter. These are questions that should be treated with weight and care.
It seems like the worst this world gets the more some seem to justify and cater to what used to seem pretty clear. These are becoming very difficult times indeed...God loves the sinner not the sin?
I like to listen to opposing sides, and you answer the argument in favor of homosexuality. What is unfortunate, though, is not looking at how some Christians will look at texts used to support anti-gay passages without looking at translation, who was speaking, to whom, the culture, etc., and what effect it
has had on lgbtq people, from discrimination in the armed forces, in employment, housing and health care, to gay bashing being common place, sometimes not punished, to the "kill the gays bill" in Uganda from lies of propaganda (such as all gays are after your children).
And the most I see is a shrug, a "yeah, that was bad" vs really understanding that the one guy with the gun is one of many people led to suicide.
Someone once said to me, "In Christ, I love you, just hate your sin." I said, " Thank you. I love you in Christ as well. And, uh, I also hate your sin." She said, "My sin??? What sin have I committed?"
See the problem?
Ahhhhhh! The stone of subjective comparison!
@@christopherscheiber1439 I don't understand your comment.
One thing that never led to anything constructive was the "sin is sin" line to justify saying "you with your boyfriend is the same as raping a child."
First of all, if I don't believe one sin is as bad as another - telling your kids how your terrible Father's Day breakfast is the same as the Holocaust, means you have to deceive yourself, ignore the horror that is still haunting today, and the white lie was said in love, rather than speaking the truth, which would result in harm.
In one online group, a woman asked a gay friend if he had any interest in attending her church with her. The had been going together for 6 months, and the more that time passed, the more troubled she became, because although her church was glbtq welcoming, they were not affirming, meaning they clearly believed homosexuality a sin, and any non repentant queer person was not allowed any position in the church, not even passing offering plates.
It's gets even more complicated. Her friend is married to his partner, so she wanted advice.
I would feel very distrustful of anyone who had that knowledge but withheld it, thinking that attending her church was a ruse to change me rather than fellowship and worship with a friend.
A number of responses were not surprisingly callous, which is why someone may claim to love a gay person but not their sin, even believe it, but I don't know anyone who it is directed at buying it for a minute:
Tell you friend to get a divorce. He's not really married anyway.
Imagine joining a church, and someone claiming the person you chose to marry isn't a real marriage and tells you to get a divorce like it's nothing. Imagine coming home from church, and telling your spouse your church is demanding a divorce, and if you actually followed the church's order, your heart breaking as you split up and pack your things, sell the house you imagined growing old in, and getting no empathy from the church, more of a "What's the big deal" attitude.
And yet, the poster condemns a man in a committed marriage, while showing no empathy, understanding, or even acknowledging the seriousness of what the gay friend was being asked to do. They aren't even in the parking lot of loving their neighbor, but because of their lack of love, are condemning in their judgement and sentence as well. •He that does not love does not know God, for God is love."
So, who is more at risk of not having salvation, a married gay guy who want to attend church and have community, or a Christian who demonstrates their lack of love for a whole group of people, lacks fruit of the Spirit, and justifies it with scripture, believing they can decide who is holy enough and worthy enough to be treated with love? So, I keep thinking, shouldn't Christians be a little concerned about modern day pharisees who put so much emphasis on queer people and calling their relationships sin, but because the focus is on sin, esp other people's, they neglect to truly embody God's koce, and Christ's command to love everyone, and often minimalizing love to pointing out others' sin?
The "loving in Christ" would seem rather like disgruntled and ingorant villagers with torches in their hands ready to burn down what they clearly don't understand.
As one speaking from experience, God never puts more on us than we can bear. Therefore, I feel if someone (me included) feels SSA then celibacy is God's way out for us. It is not a restriction it is a blessing.
I don't think I've ever heard the word "range" used so often
This was good. You covered a lot of territory. Hope that you do expand on this.
You don't engage in homosexual practice unless you first have homosexual desire. God looks on the heart. Homosexual practice and desire is everywhere condemned in Scripture and no where commended. Homosexual desire is condemned, just like adulterous lust, even though the act may not have occurred.
If homosexual desire means feeling attracted to someone of your same sex the same way heterosexuals are atracted to people of the opposite sex, then no, it's not a sin. Sexual desire is not the same as lust.
@@giovannimartini6405 The desire to do evil is itself evil for God looks upon the heart. This is the clear teaching of Scripture which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction 2 Pet. 3:16
The real issue is: "what is against nature" (Romans 1v26-27). Giovanni Martini, when you say "SEXUAL Desire is not the same as lust", well, IF a man is LONGING to do romantic things with a woman he doesn't have lifelong commitment for, that's against the Message of Life; that type of lust is therefore evil and against nature . Most CHURCH LEADERS are teaching perversion, scriptures such 2Peter 3v15-16 alerts us of their MISUSE of Love and spreading of "what is against nature" (Romans 1v26-27). Same gender sexual desire is ABOMINATION even if not entertained within, and this is different from noticing of what is ATTRACTIVE/Beautiful in nature or being excited because of sensual-beauty you see in God's Creation. The reason why same gender sexual desire is "against nature" is because it is contrary to how life is sustained here on earth. Man-woman relationship is how life continues here on earth.
C. M. Granger, if sinful desire itself is evil, then please CAREFULLY consider Luke 4v5-7 and such instances in MeshiYah's earthly pilgrimage.
1Cor 11v14, "DOES NOT EVEN NATURE ITSELF TEACH YOU ..."; today most Church Leaders don't know how to listen to the Message of Life via nature (the creation, REPRODUCTION, and our dependent-souls). For example, in the last 100 yrs, majority of Church Leaders have radically neglected/rejected the Headcovering Gender Message in 1Cor 11 . i beg you to please consider my writing: "Early Church's View, 1Corinthians 11" at homepage of my website. Use my username to search internet to find my website.
if you're not entertaining those evil desires (e.g., same gender romantic desires), then REJOICE in God's Loving Presence when that satanic spirit tries to harass you. Any evil desire that shows-up in you doesn't mean you're GUILTY of entertaining satanic spirits. Romans 7 talks about such feelings which we must recognize as LYING Feelings and DECEITFUL Thoughts not worthy of our consciousness in God's Loving Presence, HalleluYAH !!
@C. M. Granger, Christ Himself had struggles within Him against evil DESIRES (Gethsamane).
Just because evil desire shows-up in you doesn't mean you're GUILTY of entertaining evil. Let your state of being be in God's Loving Presence . IF a single woman has romantic desires for a single man and if both desire lifelong commitment with each other, this type of LUST IS NOT EVIL because it's not against nature and the Message of Life; but if same gender have desire of commitment to each other or desire romance with each other (even if not entertained within) such desires are contrary to the Message of Life because the earth is only sustained by man-woman relationship, not same gender . IF a man is longing to do romantic things with a woman he doesn't have lifelong commitment for, that's against the Message of Life; that type of lust is evil and against nature according to our Maker.
James 4:6-7 But He gives more grace. Therefore He says:
“God resists the proud,
But gives grace to the humble.”
Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.
i thank as christians we are to busy condeming people for there sins and not showing the love of jesus
I wrote my dissertation on this very topic. "How "Should The Black Baptist Church Respond To The LGBTQ Community" and this discussion was my premise.
Dr. Walter Cheeks
New St Peters MBC
How can I get your dissertation? Any chance you’d send me the PDF through seanmcdowell.org?
Right
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Thank you!! Learning so much. 🙏🤍
I really enjoyed this. It helped me sort out so much confusion. Thank you guys for being faithful to your calling.
@Maya De paz agreed. I was waiting for Lauren Daigle to make an appearance in this video.
Or maybe the book was written by ancient warlords who thought that anything that was different equaled bad
Oh okay sin is a word that has been "mistranslated" also. Just do what you want to do and it's all good. Right .
Great video but Catholic brothers and sisters? You mean the religion that teaches works as a means to merit your way into heaven? I get you're trying to be kind and loving but please dont compromise the Gospel in the process...
How do you define a catholic?
@@SamD-th5tg www.beginningcatholic.com/tenets-of-catholicism
People who understand and believe this stuff. Clear works salvation through the sacraments, idolatry in Mary and their saints, circumventing Scripture through sacred tradition, and elevating a man as the vicar (or representation) of Christ just to name a few. People who believe this are not brothers and sisters in Christ and need to get saved through the Gospel just like anyone else in a false religion.
@@aarons1789 Uh uh no. Start here if you want to understand anything. jimmyakin.com/library/justification-by-faith-alone By the way, considering sacraments a way to "work out" your salvation is like saying they're something we do FOR God, instead of God for us, which is the Catholic understanding. And they're not the only ones with sacraments, so you're banning Orthodox, Anglicans and Lutherans too...
The issues with papacy, tradition and saints are what make them not Protestants, but the idea Protestantism is the only way to be a Christian is egocentric and unfair. Doctrine is important, but Salvation comes from Christ, it doesn't come from doctrine.
@@giovannimartini6405 I just started with a massive list of explicitly spelled out Catholic doctrines. I think I understand plenty. What is ironic is how often that article cites Galatians 5. Here is just one bullet point from the article I provided:
Only Christ forgives sins; the priests and sacraments are simply the means through which Christ acts to accomplish this. (987, 986)
Do you affirm that keeping the sacraments adds grace or merit to your salvation through the forgiveness of sins? What happens if you dont keep the sacraments?
Protestantism isn't the only way to be a Christian. Believing the Gospel is. What is unfair is teaching that meritorious rituals somehow helps you salvificly. Again, this is just the most serious error, aside from the pope, maryiology, sacred tradition trumping scripture, etc.
@@aarons1789 Uh, no, Aaron, I respect you, but believe me, you have no idea of Catholicism. You think you do, but you're just full of misunderstandings.
Sacraments is like having Jesus doing things for you in a physical way through the ministry of the priest. Your question is like saying what would have happen if the blind man of Jn 9 refused to go through the whole process of getting mud on his eyes and cleaning them. Or if Naaman had refused to bath in the Jordan. Neither water nor mud cleaned them, God could for sure have cleaned them in other way, and they wanting any merit for obeying Him would be stupid. "Oh, I deserve Heaven, I cleaned mud from my eyes as Jesus told me", no. For Catholics, abandoning sacraments would be throwing out a gift just because you're too proud to let God heal you the way He chose, so well, expect that to affect your relationship with Him. But they also believe God gives them grace in other ways too, and no one who put his trust in God is going to hell if he can't receive sacraments or sincerely believes in a non sacramental form of Christianity. Jesus also healed people without even touching them.
Catholics see a lot of grave theological errors in non liturgical, Evangelical/Low church ways of Christianity, and however they recognise them as brothers and sisters in Christ and have officialy stated the desire to know them better, without prejudices (you can read "Ut unum sint"). Call me crazy, but I'm adopting this way of looking people.
Very helpful. Thank you both.
You want to remove it just because YOU don't like it
Preston said that people "left the faith" when they heard "homosexuality", I would say if they were truly that offended they were never truly in the faith the begin with.
Do you think though, these conversations sometimes just turns into a bunch of semantics. Can we not just say that the acts of sexual sin, in any form-which literally pertains to everything outside of sex between a married man/woman- are not favorable to God, and be done with it? I just don’t understand the need for all these crazy clarifications. The church doesn’t need to clarify anything, it’s all there in the Bible for anyone to read study who actually wants to know and cares to seek God for understanding. The church keeps trying to respond to these folks (progressive/inclusive/etc Christians)who are basically trying to rewrite the Bible to justify they’re own inner struggles or to make the Bible more palatable to certain people.
Disclaimer: I used to be one of these “love everyone-don’t be divisive-don’t talk about sexuality” people. But God has really been working in me to show me that despite some of the mistakes made by modern Christians (especially in the most recent decades), the judgmental/hypocritical attitudes that have really driven people away from Church, will not be cured by changing the Bible and sugar coating Gods word. The church would do well to start focusing on their individual walks with God and really leaning in to the idea that our WHOLE Job here on Earth is to spread the Gospel and make disciples- Share the Love of God and allow him to change the hearts of people. In reality, every human on Earth is a terrible sinner, and we are incapable of not being. However, we can welcome the salvation that Jesus provided and allow the Holy Spirit to work in our lives, for our whole lives, increasing in Faith and knowledge, and sharing that opportunity for salvation with those who seek a reason for our hope.
I could go on.... but I’ll stop... thanks for reading my novel.
Truth💯
Truth💯
it's all BS from start to finish, no one cares what god wants really. have you noticed how many people don't actually keep to ANY of the commandments? in fact the highest populations of christians, and muslims, is prison.
@@Isaiah--vj2xu total crap you mean.
Repentance is a change of direction Not confessing If one has no change in their direction and still walking by there on Accord there is no repentance and that goes for any situation
yeah, true-Repentance is a change of mind, change of the INTERNALS; it is AGREEING with the Message of Life/God, this Confession if real, produces outward FRUITS in accordance with the internal. However, this doesn't mean that a true-Christian is PERFECT outwardly or inwardly but a true-Christian would ACKNOWLEDGE THE TRUTH immediately or sooner or later.
These talkers in this video certainly are gone astray teaching that our Sinful-NATURE from our parents and culture/upbringing is okay . Please checkout my article "God Did Not Create Anyone For Hell", contrary to so many Pastors' satanic VIEW of "predestination". Use my username to search internet to find my website.
@@GraceTruth7 👍
I'm gay and I don't care if you believe that I'm a sinner or not. I don't believe in hell or anything or anybody that could judge me. You who belive in hell are building your own judge and grave.
Not really
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To practice celibacy and still have an attraction to the same sex is defeating the purpose, because sin starts in the mind. Not stating that is sending the wrong message, which need not need to be stated in a disrespectful manner or filled with hatred, but it still needs to be said.
Preston let's go bro. That first 7 minutes yall both declared a tone of love, and I love it!
That’s the goal!
So basically it is ok to be gay but having sex with other men is not 😐
Yes.
which is completely wrong!
@@kenobi4582 What is wrong ?
@@spinlok3943 what about lustful thoughts?
And this is why the church is where it is today. How sad.
Hello everyone. Excellent teaching and talk about this topic. It's opening my mind. Thanks 👍💯👍🔥💯✔️😇. From Guatemala.
. JESUS is LORD. JESUS is GOD. the LORD GOD Almighty reigns forever and ever. you, too, can be a child of GOD, sealed by the HOLY SPIRIT. please turn away from all of your sins and live all to the glory of GOD alone! GOD bless you! :)
Not really a good message
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19:25 I believe you mean "Flonkerton", the Icelandic sport of "paper box snowshoe racing".
- The Office
But what about when Jesus says, “Moses said though shalt not commit adultery. But I tell you the truth, if you’ve looked at a woman lustfully, you have committed adultery in your heart already.”
...???
Isn’t the lust for that, whether you’ve acted on it or not make this a non-argument.
How would you translate the Greek though?
Can a “attraction” which one may control by not dwelling on, not following through with fantasies in ones mind, etc. Be different than “lust”. To me lust would mean a long lingering, intentional desire for sex with someone without humbly squashing the thought or feeling quickly and contrite-ly , That is different from someone who knows they have an attraction but does not dwell on it, allow the mind to fantasize, and doesn’t entertain lustful longings.
Yeah I was thinking homosexual would be appropriate because if you think it , it’s the same as the activity?
@@SamD-th5tg exactly the way the King James translators did if I was that clever
Some people have self-control. You, apparently, don’t. This impugns your morals- not those of others.
Sean and Preston, I love your heart for people and desire to be faithful to Gods word and established order at the same time. It comes across.
I am curious though: do you think it is helpful to refer to people who struggle with sexual and gender confusion as members of the lgbtq community or gay? Doesn’t doing so simply affirm that artificial identity?
Paul tells us that there is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free etc. to dissolve the idols of identity that we hold to exclaim the truth that we are all one in the Lord. To refer to brothers and sisters struggling with such confusion as being a part of this “other” group seems to be of as much value as if Paul were to call tax collectors, adulterers, prostitutes, and thieves members of the tcapt community. That would seem to work against the unifying message the Lord brought.
I say all this in goodwill to advance this conversation and better reach brothers and sisters. I have had sexual and gender confusion in my own life, so I speak from-albeit limited-experience. So, I am not simply making academic, theoretical conjecture.
In my own confusion over the years, I have noticed how incredibly powerful the words used in this conversation are. By using identity labels like “gay” or “lgbtq,” I felt a hard choice between identities. I felt that I had to choose between this identity or that. It wasn’t until I realized that feelings and desires aren’t indicative of immutable identities but are merely transient experiences within the soul and can-and often do-change over time that I found freedom and relief.
I would like to offer that you not use the terminology the ruler of this world has constructed around the topic as he knows that if we play by his rules, no matter how noble the intention, we will lose. Let’s reject his terms of identity and refer to these personal experiences in a more technical way. Instead of saying someone is “gay” let’s be more honest and say they are same sex attracted. That is not an identity but a proclivity. Instead of “transgender,”someone who is experiences gender confusion. That is not an identity but a state of being. Instead of the lgbtq community, people who experience sexual and gender confusion.
At 8:20 you said that they are not "acting out on it" and because of that they should inherit the Kingdom of God.
How do you explain then Matthew 5:28 that contradicts your statement and says that there is NO action needed to commit sin but the lustful desire in your heart
The English word, Homosexual, didn’t enter the language until late 1800s. So, regardless, of what one thinks about the accuracy/ propriety of the translation, it would have been impossible to use that word for earlier translations. FWIW.
Gay meant happy as well. The devil always twists things!
Not really
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Can the Bible be referring to heterosexual men having sex with men, not homosexual men?
I’ve heard this argument as well, I would love to hear their thoughts on this!
@D looking for loopholes won't wash with the real supreme court judge
@D on the contrary but if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive US OUR sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness... However he who covers his sins will not prosper( the last clause is a bit of an understatement)
Well, if you think about it, why isn't the word 'heterosexual' in the bible and found in various places to describe the world's most common relationship? (insert thinking emoji).
My view of Genesis is pretty detailed in the sense that it was a story written when humanity was already in existence. It wasn't written at the exact same time God was creating the heavens and the earth an all therein, like the opening of a Walt Disney movie that was being narrated. As such, the author wrote Genesis after humanity and other living things were create. There would be no author of Genesis had he not already been created. The point here is that when the creation story was written, he couldn't write a story with just two males or two females. I say that because that is, seemingly, what some people want to see in the story in order to affirm same sex relationships. Had he wrote the creation story with two males (for example), then that would beg the question, "Where did females come from?" Even further, God made humanity in His image. That means, God's image consists of maleness and femaleness, which sounds gay in some way, but on a more serious note, it's another reason why I think both genders are in the story.
Let's also not forget the fact that God did not choose Eve for Adam. God created Eve, but it was Adam that chose her. He chose her after having seen all of the other living things that God had created prior to Eve and God still observed that the Adam was lonely. After Eve was created, it was Adam who was satisfied with what he saw. God didn't force Adam to like her or command that he like her and find her suitable. It was all Adam's choice. That is one lesson in this story: That it is up to individual human beings to choose their own suitable mate. To take the lesson even further, make note that Adam did not find Eve suitable for him because she was female. Nothing in his reaction would imply that. However, it is telling in his reaction that he found her suitable because of her common humanity with him. She was made out of the same bone and flesh as he was. She was human. So, another lesson to found here is that a suitable mate for a human is another human. Why a lot of bible readers don't see these aforementioned lessons is beyond me, but I see them in the details.
Now, I'd like to talk about a text that Preston brought up and that's Matthew 19:3-12. Preston (and many others) like refer to this text and point out that Jesus reaffirmed that marriage is only between a man and a woman, but that is not what Jesus was doing in this text. Had the context of the text been about who can marry and who cannot, I would likely agree with Preston (and others), but it's not. Jesus doesn't refer to the creation story to make the point that marriage is only between a man and a woman. He refers to to it in a conversation about marriage between men and women and whether or not a man can divorce his wife for any reason at all. He references the creation not to explain that marriage is only between a man and a woman, but to refer to the creation story's reference to being one flesh and and not putting asunder what God has joined together. In a conversation about husbands putting their wives asunder, Jesus thought it necessary to remind his disciples that "what God has joined together, let no man put asunder".
Interestingly, in the same conversation Jesus' disciples seem to react to what He said in verses 8 and 9 in such a way to say, "If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry". In other words, "If men have to stay married to their wives forever, unless the wife commits female adultery, it's better for men not to take a wife! at all!" is how Jesus' disciples reacted to His instructions. What makes this conversation more interesting is that the disciple's words caused Jesus to hop onto another topic. If you've ever been in a conversation where you're talking with one or more people about one thing and somebody says something that makes you think about something else related to what they just said, then you might see that's what happened here. When Jesus' disciples mention how it's good not to take a wife, Jesus segues into the subject of those who will not take a wife. This begins in verse 11 and ends in verse 12.
Many people understand eunuchs to only be castrated males, but historically, that's not true. Eunuchs can be castrated males, but they can also be anatomically whole males. Priests are one example. They don't take a wife by choice. Jesus also mentions eunuchs naturally born so from the womb. Based on historical literature I've read on this site (people.well.com/user/aquarius/contents.htm), natural eunuchs were also anatomically whole and with characteristics of today's gay male. They weren't interested in women, but were interested in other males. Read up on that, if you have time. As mentioned, eunuchs could be castrated. Some against their will for crimes they committed. Some castrated themselves for religious reasons. Of course, I bring this part of the Matthew text up to point out that homosexuals (male or female) are a type of eunuch. If male, they don't take a wife. If female, they don't take a husband.
I'd also like to point out that God consists of both maleness and femaleness. Also, males don't have any exclusivity on masculinity or females on femininity. There are males who are masculine and straight, as well as masculine and gay. There are males who are feminine and straight and feminine and gay. There are females who are masculine and straight, as well as masculine and gay. Likewise, there are females that are feminine and straight as feminine and gay. A view that says males and females compliment each other due to their masculine and feminine differences, I would agree with, but I would also say that the same could be said for two males or two females. There is no reason that two people of the same gender couldn't become one in a relationship like their heterosexual counterparts. Especially, if the biblical example of God and Christ says they are one. Or, that every male in Christ is considered (along with the female believers) a bride of Christ and married to Him in one way or another. As such, a coming together of two people of the same gender in a marriage doesn't seem that far fetched to me based on these things I've just said.
I could get into the "clobber passages" mentioned in the video, but the long and short of it is neither of them are related to the issue of whether or not two people of the same gender are acceptable to God in a loving relationship. Sodom: You can't use a story about intended rape to determine if gay relationships are valid in God's eyes. Leviticus: The texts are about idol worship practices involving same sex acts and those prohibitions are no longer a part of the Law that is now the Law of Christ (Galatians 6:2). Christ's Law replaced the schoolmaster known as the law of Moses (Galatians 3:23-25). 1 Corinthians 6:9 and 1 Timothy 1:8-10: In Koine Greek, these texts are all referring to acts that are the opposite of loving one's neighbor as self. Excellent references on this and the homosexual issue as well can be found here: www.michaelwoodcrypto.com/books. Romans chapter one: In short, Paul used pagan sex practices to reiterate to his audience (Jews being among them) that only the Law of Christ is the Law. Therefore, the law of Moses which condemned such pagan practices as worthy of death are no longer worthy of death under the Law of Christ, as is evident in verse 27 where Paul says their penalty or price to pay was not death, but a body related price to be paid. In verses 28-32, Paul mentions what is worthy of death in contrast to the pagan sex rituals he mentioned in earlier verses. Paul, like Christ, taught that keeping the law of Moses was no longer necessary, which is why the death penalty for a man lying with another man in pagan temples was not repeated by Paul in 1:27. It's also the reason why Paul said in Romans 2:26 that an uncircumcised man is okay with God as long as he meets the Law's requirements and that Law is the Law of Christ, which requires love of one's neighbor as self via a developed character of benevolence, altruism and loving kindness. The law of Moses required Jewish males to be circumcised, but not the Law of Christ. Paul said the uncircumcised man's uncircumcision would be counted as circumcision as long as he keeps the commandments based on the Law of Christ. Likewise, I believe he would say the same in regards to a homosexual person who keeps the Law's requirements: There homosexuality would be counted as heterosexuality.
Heterosexual is in the bible.
Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange (G2087) flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
G2087 heteros = strange. Where we get the word heterosexual. And as listed in this passage, they gave themselves over to fornication.
For Daniel's sealed scroll, unsealed for this generation, watch/listen to the angel of the Church of Philadelphia: czcams.com/video/7v554QtlGKs/video.html
@@qwerty-so6ml 'Heteros' is a Greek term. My comment was referring to the English term, heterosexual. Just like the English term homosexual is found in some English bible translations, I was asking why isn't the English term heterosexual found in English bibles? I wasn't referring to a Greek term and whether or not it's found in an English translated bible.
Jude 1:7 refers to going after 'strange' or 'different' flesh, which would be a reference to angelic flesh. The Greek word 'porneia' is often translated as fornication. Fornication means to have sex outside of marriage. Porneia doesn't mean to have sex outside of marriage. It's meaning is more in regards to having sex outside of one's own marriage. It often referred to female adultery, as Jesus said in Matthew 19:9.(Read "Pauline Paradoxes Decoded" by author Michael Wood for more).
'Porneia' referred to something specific, not something open to anything, like the modern bible term 'sexual immorality' seems to be used as. In close relation to porneia, are pornos (one who engages in porneia) and pornoi (those who engage in porneia). Porneia often referred to female adultery. Pornos referred to the man who engaged in female adultery or the male seducer of another man's woman.
As far as I'm concerned, fornication is not an accurate translation of porneia. Porneia was often used in reference to unfaithful women as well in reference to the males who seduced them. The crime being betrayal of one's fellow man by sleeping with his woman. Homosexuality, in and of itself, is not a betrayal of a fellow human.
So are you saying that man w/ man sex is what is prohibited but woman-woman is not ? That was confusing to me.
What we have here is a lack of fear of GOD.
AGREED!
lack of reverence of God. 1John 4v18 says there's no fear in Love because perfect Love casts out fear; however those who are saying that our Fallen NATURE from our ancestors is okay, are LIARS. What we have here is A MISUSE of God's Love, taking advantage of God in a wrong way: Rev 2v20 "... enjoying foods offered to IDOLS".
@@GraceTruth7 Yes definitely reverence but also love and fear as these verses tell us.
Job 28 v 28
And to man He said, ‘Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom;
And to depart from evil is understanding.’”
Psalm 111:10
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom;
A good understanding have all those who do His commandments;
His praise endures forever.
Proverbs 9:10
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom,
And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.
Proverbs 15:33
The fear of the Lord is the instruction for wisdom,
And before honor comes humility.
Proverbs 1:7
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge;
Fools despise wisdom and instruction.
Proverbs 10:27
The fear of the Lord prolongs life,
But the years of the wicked will be shortened.
Proverbs 14:27
The fear of the Lord is a fountain of life,
That one may avoid the snares of death.
Proverbs 19:23
The fear of the Lord leads to life,
So that one may sleep satisfied, untouched by evil.
Isaiah 33:6
And He will be the stability of your times,
A wealth of salvation, wisdom and knowledge;
The fear of the Lord is his treasure.
Proverbs 14:26
In the fear of the Lord there is strong confidence,
And his children will have refuge.
Proverbs 15:16
Better is a little with the fear of the Lord
Than great treasure and turmoil with it.
Proverbs 2:5
Then you will discern the fear of the Lord
And discover the knowledge of God.
Psalm 112:1
Praise the Lord!
How blessed is the man who fears the Lord,
Who greatly delights in His commandments.
Psalm 128:1
A Song of Ascents.
How blessed is everyone who fears the Lord,
Who walks in His ways.
Psalm 128:4
Behold, for thus shall the man be blessed
Who fears the Lord.
Proverbs 8:13
“The fear of the Lord is to hate evil;
Pride and arrogance and the evil way
And the perverted mouth, I hate.
Exodus 20:20
Moses said to the people, “Do not be afraid; for God has come in order to test you, and in order that the fear of Him may remain with you, so that you may not sin.”
Psalm 19:9
The fear of the Lord is clean, enduring forever;
The judgments of the Lord are true; they are righteous altogether.
Job 4:6
“Is not your fear of God your confidence,
And the integrity of your ways your hope?
Proverbs 14:2
He who walks in his uprightness fears the Lord,
But he who is devious in his ways despises Him.
Proverbs 23:17
Do not let your heart envy sinners,
But live in the fear of the Lord always.
Psalm 33:8
Let all the earth fear the Lord;
Let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of Him.
Deuteronomy 14:23
You shall eat in the presence of the Lord your God, at the place where He chooses to establish His name, the tithe of your grain, your new wine, your oil, and the firstborn of your herd and your flock, so that you may learn to fear the Lord your God always.
Colossians 3:22
Slaves, in all things obey those who are your masters on earth, not with external service, as those who merely please men, but with sincerity of heart, fearing the Lord.
Psalm 34:11
Come, you children, listen to me;
I will teach you the fear of the Lord.
Proverbs 15:16
Better is a little with the fear of the Lord
Than great treasure and turmoil with it.
Proverbs 1:7
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge;
Fools despise wisdom and instruction.
Proverbs 8:13
“The fear of the Lord is to hate evil;
Pride and arrogance and the evil way
And the perverted mouth, I hate.
DO YOU FEAR GOD ?? Let me know what you teach of 1Cor 11 (headcovering instructions) . How about observing of winter-birth of A Christ, that he was born in December; are you part of a fellowship that does that?
@@GraceTruth7 well the head covering was for the church of Corinth in Paul’s day. Because the church of Corinth was having problems with temple prostitutes. It doesn’t pertain to today.
Another one to check out is Beckett Cook. He wrote A Change of Affection .
. JESUS is LORD. JESUS is GOD. the LORD GOD Almighty reigns forever and ever. you, too, can be a child of GOD, sealed by the HOLY SPIRIT. please turn away from all of your sins and live all to the glory of GOD alone! GOD bless you! :)
Numerous sex acts are referred to in the Bible and are as old as humanity. Sexual orientation or sexual identity is an invention of modern psychology.
Which interferes with peoples ability to subconciously justify contempt and hatred through subjective comparison.
@@christopherscheiber1439 Sexual orientation like race are modern fictions.
Does NOT modify the noun but the verb, a verb! Homosexuality as a verb, an action, both in Hebrew and Greek.
Have you any idea of the abject misery i live with being homosexual.. as a Catholic i cant marry or become a priest... i am forced to live single and i despise myself... i have nothing to look forward to.. i have nobody to hang out with... i feel depressed all the time
I think i somehow deleted my reply. Anyway I relate and I was saying that there are lots of people discussing these sort of problems we experience on reddit at r/ssachristian.
I love you
When 'homosexuality' is spoken against in the Bible the language is about men, and women sinning, unrelated to pederasty or any children being abused by an adult. A Men should not lie with a man, nor a woman with another woman. Period. It is not about child abuse.
I have a sincere question as a new Christian struggling to understand the dislike of both homosexuals and women found in the Bible and church. How does it reconcile to say if you are gay, you don’t get to have meaningful relationships with the Genesis statement from God that it is not man (kind?) to be alone, that (we) need helper?
Homoxesuality is a modern concept that did not exist in Bible times. In the cultures represented in the bible, the assumption was that women were inferior to men, so a male in a woman's role in bed was denigrating. But today we don't have that concept, so when people read the Bible they misunderstand it as being against gay people.
Right and wrong in the Bible is about doing good and not hurting people: Micah 6.8, Mat 22.40, Gal 5.6, Rom 13.8-10, John 13.34, etc. Two men/women in a loving relationship can do that just as much as straight people can. We can also look at passages like "it is not good to be alone" to see that they apply to gay couples with no contradiction to the text.
The issue with women is similar. The Bible reflects the culture in which it was written. Although at least it did start to be challenged by the Bible's authors, e.g., Jesus was approachable for women, Paul approved of female ministers, men and women were "joint heirs", etc.
Your logic is flawed it is not about the modern interpretation. It is about the proper historical and cultural context in the original languages. When studied that way loving homosexual relationships are not sin. You are falling short by calling it sin.
Seriously guys an hours talk on this? Lust is Lust and sex is only permitted within marriage between one man and one woman.
Unfortunately, it seems as though you’ve missed the point of the video entirely.
When Bible critics challenge words and definitions on this deep a level in scripture in their defense of homosexuality or any other act that the Bible itself identifies as sin, it becomes necessary to offer an equally studied and substantive response.