00:00 Pierre Boulez playing the first movement of his own "Douze Notations". 01:00 Bruno Walter playing The First-Movement Cadenzas for Mozart Piano Concerto No. 20 in D Minor, K. 466. 03:08 Wilhelm Furtwängler playing The First-Movement Cadenzas for J.S. Bach Brandenburg Concerto No. 5, BWV 1050. 07:43 Arthur Nikisch as a piano accompanist to the singer Elena Gerhardt, Robert Schumann's Ich Grolle Nicht. 10:23 Dimitri Mitropoulos playing Sergei Prokofiev’s Piano Concerto No. 3. 12:38 Leonard Bernstein playing Maurice Ravel's Piano Concerto in G major 14:50 Herbert von Karajan playing Mozart's Piano Concerto No. 21. 17:22 Richard Strauss Piano Roll (Welte-Mignon). Strauss's Dance of the Seven Veils from Salome. 19:40 Felix Mottl Piano Roll. Richard Wagner's Tristan und Isolde, Prelude (Arr. for Piano). 22:57 Gustav Mahler Piano Roll. Mahler's Fourth Symphony.
Furtwangler is a master of phrasing and sound and color as few others. Whether he conducts or plays piano. It is as if the last note is already contained as a necessity in the first - this is how convincing his music making is.
I know Karajan technically played the “easiest” piece on the docket here, but…I don’t know, it’s just so powerful, and such a representation of him, don’t you think😂 His conducting style is the same way. From a man who from his face seems cold and severe, emanates the deepest and most emotional understanding and connection to some of the most beautiful music in history. It touched me, it really did.
Bravo, Leonard Bernstein. The tempi and performance of Ravel's concerto is absolutely wonderful. I heard it on the radio back in the day! The other performances are absolutely wonderful. These conductors and composers were master-pianists!
Hearing Mahler is like hearing Beethoven ... To know " directly" his feelings about the end of the 4tg ... and the very slow Shumnan by Nikisch was great to hear!!! Thanks!!!
Felix Mottl here deserves some appreciation. Playing on the piano is extremely different from an orchestra. Here, from the man who gave the Bayreuth premiere of the ring and Tristan, he realizes the phrasing in Wagner, which is hinted here, where despite managing the piano, he doesn't let the piano lines interfere with the music itself. I'm also glad that mitropolous got the recognition here. He was a great great conductor not very often brought up
Ursprünglich war das ja ein Konzert in der Berliner Philharmonie mit dem Philharmonischen Orchester unter Karajans Leitung mit Alexis Weissenberg als Solist. Nun spielte der Pianist den ersten Satz sehr schön und kurz bevor dann in Satz zwei das Klavier einsetzen wollte, schob Karajan ihn sozusagen vom Hocker und stimmte selbst das Andante pianistisch an, um zu zeigen: 'Seht Leute, ich kanns auch!' - Er fand das wohl lustig, ich hätte es lustiger gefunden, wenn er einen Satz später diesen Einfall gehabt hätte. I was not amused! 🐇
Великие музыканты, которым не хватало выразительных возможностей одного только фортепьяно и их музыкальный талант требовал самовыражения и больших возможностей, которые им и позволило проявить дирижирование. Мурашки от игры Караяна, Бруно Вальтера, Фуртвенглера...... Интересно, что дирижёров, которые первоначально играли на скрипке, намного меньше чем пианистов ставших великими дирижёрами...... Большое спасибо за возможность услышать уникальные записи! Для меня это большое открытие! 👍👏😍
Furtwängler shows his genius in trusting his adventurous instinct and revealing whole worlds in Bach (whose gift is oceanic to be rightly heard) that lesser ears have perpetually missed, in plenitude. ~~~~~~~£4£&$4$+my2¢ "In short, there is an element of elfin coincidence in life that those who are looking for the more prosaic may perpetually miss." ~~ G. K. Chesterton, "The Blue Cross" (Fr. Brown detective story)
There a LOT of better recordings of the Ravel (IMHO). And there are endless numbers of conductors who can lead from a keyboard, or other instruments, for hundreds of years.... So, there you go. My point is, Bernstein is surely talented, but widely overrated. As are his own compositions, which garnered any number of reviews that they were the bees knees, but are, like most American work in the genre, rather derivative.
@@johnervin8033 Bernstein was the first to admit that his music was eclectic, yet it always came out sounding like Bernstein. He and a number of other American composers (Barber, etc.) were instrumental in influencing later composers to use eclecticism in their own music. A number of Bernstein's works are already in the international repertory: the Violin Serenade, Dances from West Side Story, Chichester Psalms, West Side Story, On the Town, On The Waterfront Suite, Candide, Fancy Free, Mass, Symphony no. 1, Symphony no. 2. However, much of his music did not garner the 'bees knees' when premiered. Critics were far more critical than supportive. As far as the Ravel concerto is concerned, true, conductors do perform as soloists and conduct at the same time (violinists, pianists, etc.), but try to find another playing and conducting the Ravel concerto.
No big deal. Artur Nikisch passed away in 1922, and conducted almost until his last days. Pneumonia probably was a reason of his death at the age of 67.
I've been sick for some time and unable to listen to music...now I can!! What a pleasure to come back to ozan fabien guvener and his extraordinary works.
Boulez was a conductor, composer and also a music teacher. He was a very good in Schumann and Wagner music, talking about German repertoire. He conducted the whole Richard Wagner Ring cycle at the Bayreuth festival in 1976. Commemoration of the 100 year anniversary of those music events.
Bruno Walter has a lovely touch even if he kills Mozart. Furtwangler plays the Bach as if it were written by Wagner. Builds an impressive crescendo. Devotional playing.
Furtwängler plays Bach in a way that would give today's Bach speed freaks a stroke. Savoring a whole different realm of architecture in Bach that certainly is a worshipful option. (George Martin plays this cadenza with Klemperer on Angel in a more preferable allegro tempo, and peerlesly, though I totally respect Furtwängler's approach and great spirit he invests in the music.) I can only wish for more that are closer to that kind of credible Bach tempos, since it would be such a relief from the meth addict fads in Bach the last 40 years which are breakneck fast, mostly quite silly in their celerity. I have no shadow of a doubt that Bach would agree with that, and I also have played a lot of Bach in recitals, not too slow and not too fast, LOL First time I heard Furtwangler at the keyboard, though, and am grateful to hear this validation. By the bye, the Mahler piano rolls are mesmerizing, what a master, the jewel of this catalogue. Bernstein is not a patch on his pants, very talented but no genius, undermined perhaps by a lack of true depth and taste, tainted by echoes of schmaltz, always, though he often enough overachieves. Karajan has always appalled me spiritually, so gooey and out of touch. Boulez is a great genius, I have had the privilege of talking to him and questioning him several times, though briefly, mostly out of shyness in the presence of such a master. One must prep one's ears and mind to access someone so far in front, a lot.
@@bobschaaf2549 Well, compared, if that's all one has on the current sad menu, to Bach versions of the last 40 years, which mostly are crazy as bugs. Crazier, in their frantic tempi. I'm certain Bach would agree. Ludicrous, really, in a musical and spiritual sense, anyone who likes the prestos of these days in Bach doesn't have a clue about Bach, though too many think they do. Must be the crystal meth
Since these guys don't have 10 hours a day to practice I salute them all. I was surprised by von Karajan's poor technique. Sticking out the elbows is a no no. Bernstein is too saccharine and self satisfied. I liked Motl's Tristan. It had real feeling. Furtwangler turned the 5th Brandenburg cadenza into a meditation, which seems poor style. His recording of the Beethoven Violin Concerto with Yehudi Menuhin is beyond good. He was a great musician. I liked Mitropolous doing Prokofieff. No showing off or drama. Just the music with good modernist style. Mahler seemed ordinary at first but by the time the piece was over I knew I had been somewhere. Thank you for this unique collection. It has so much value for everyone.
Most of the work is done in rehearsal. Once the tempo, dynamics, and other details are worked out it's just a matter of sticking to them during the live performance. Even then, a conductor can give cues to the orchestra using nods, shaking their head, whatever gets the message across. 🐧
Way to go Dimitri. I didn’t know he could play like that. And, yes, Lenny was a god. In fact, doesn’t the story go that Lenny loved the Ravel concerto so much that he could play it if he were awakened at 2am?
Karajan... How can you get so many wrong notes in such a simple movement as this one??? If Karajan had to conduct a pianist who plays like that he would have told him to go work home and humiliate him...! 15:27 He's playing A and C instead of C and Eb and the conclusion of the phrase is one octave lower than what it's written. 15:35 There is an artistic and deep gesture but... no notes... then instead of the F he's playing D... and again he played the conclusion of the phrase an octave below. 16:12 Wrong left hands on the third beat, he's playing C E G instead of C F G 16:40 he's not even tryng to play the left hand chords, it's clearly visible...!! Grande vergogna, it's a shame.
Even more strange: some months ago here has been the complete video - unfortunately, it has been deleted meanwhile. It is in fact a performance with Alexis Weissenberg. After the 1st mvt. Weissenberg makes his seat free for Karajan who plays the 2nd mvt. At the very end of the excerpt here, it can be seen how Karajan stands up again to go back to his conducting podium and Weissenberg will come back and play the last mvt. It has been discussed whether Weissenberg felt not so well - on the other hand, in this state the 2nd mvt. is probably the easiest one. Moreover, it looks like it was a planned act, although the fact that Mr. Weissenberg would NOT play the 2nd mvt. nowhere has been announced. The piquant thing is - and maybe the reason for the removal of the video - that Karajan immediatly after he re-entered the podium, few seconds after the excerpt presented here, made a complete mess of the beginning of the last mvt. which was totally damaged because half of the orchestra misunderstood him. You could see in the original video that he was very angry about that, but obviously, it was a live broadcasting on french Radio and thus there was no opportunity to interrupt.
@@borisbrinkmann I didn't know all these events, I thought it was a private recording and no audience...! I find this extremely surprising on Karajan's part, such a lack of preparation to the point of no longer knowing how to play such a "simple" movement and especially of losing control over the introduction of the 3rd movement which is far from being complex...The fact that Karajan is so unprepared in front of an audience shocks me, I would be extremely curious to see the full concert... thanks for the information
@@rossini9mozart10 That's interesting - did you find it in color or black/white? As far as I remember, the former complete video on yt was b/w. I thought that it was really a spontaneous cry for help by Weissenberg (but maybe I was influenced by the former discussion), and that Karajan really wasn't prepared to do so. I was rather impressed that he was able to jump in at least to this extent (but I didn't check out the failers so precisely yet)... On the other hand, it really looks planned somehow... It's really odd... To the beginning of the 3rd mvt.: As far as I remember, due to the fact that Karajan arrived right from his excursion, part of the orchestra considered his avviso not clear - what is rather plausible, but what in his case, of course, is a matter of blasphemy... 😎
@@borisbrinkmann I found it in color, it's now an avalaible by INA archives (French archives of tv programs) I don't think Weissenberg was in trouble, the tv show where the concert was played is "Le Grand Echiquier" and the classical artists that makes that show always played a bit... so Karajan made it.
Thank you for the additions. Do we have piano recordings of these people? I didn't include Barenboim because he is known for his piano career (Like Ashkenazy, Cortot, Rachmaninoff).
and Andrè Previn, he is also a famed pianist, but I think his conducting career overshadows his works as a pianist. So maybe an adequate addition to the list?
@@OzanFabienGuvener I offered Messiaen, but I must have conflated great organist with great conductor, alas... But Dohnanyi is no slouch, and he was concurrently head of Philharmonia and Cleveland, two of the world's Big 5. That might qualify. I read that he worked for Solti as his first big gig, as répetiteur for Frankfurt Öper, certainly he played a lot of piano, but I am not aware of any recordings. Stravinsky was truly a "great conductor" of his own works, though not widely known for many others. And Klemperer. A great one, he played? There are others. Didn't Solti?
@@OzanFabienGuvener Michael Tilson Thomas is certainly one of the notable contemporary pianist/conductors--his "Rhapsody in Blue" is especially characterful and idiomatic
My opinion is, that there are genuine conductors playing piano, and genuine pianists conducting. The conducting pianists are normally good pianists like Previn who was also a gifted jazz pianist !, Pletnev, Christian Zacharias, Leonard Bernstein, George Szell, Philipp Entremont. The best piano playing genuine conductor was in my opinion Wolfgang Sawallisch.
Years ago, Solti and the Chicago Symphony Orchestra were to give two performances in San Francisco. Their instruments, scores, and formal attire were on a truck which was delayed in arriving due to a snowstorm in Nevada. In order to pass the time while waiting for the arrival of the truck, we were treated to performances of chamber music by members of the CSO and - making his American debut as a pianist - George Solti! 😺
Every conductor must be able to play piano. He needs it to conduct rehearsals with orchestras and future soloists. However, some conductors began their careers as pianists and then either merged with or completely switched it to conducting. I know that Bruno Walter, Mitropoulos, Bernstein or Wolfgang Sawallisch were perfect pianists. Arturo Toscanini played piano despite that by his own education he should play cello. I think, that piano is the basic instrument you need to master before you start to focus on playing any other instrument.
pity you didn't include Rostropovich - as he was a fine conductor (I met him after he'd conducted Shostakovich) and pianist (Richter said of him 'he can do everything')
You're right, but Rostropovich is primarily a cellist and I have another video in mind on this subject .I would like to compile piano recordings of non-pianist classical musicians (such as violinist, cellist, flutist, singer) Rostropovich will be there. I thought he would be more suitable for the other video. I like him piano playing.
@@OzanFabienGuvener How about Stravinsky at the keyboard, didn't he raise funds at an early age, on tour in Europe as a pianist. And Boulez' first prof, Olivier Messiaen. He was a fixture in Paris as organist, but his wife Yvonne Loriod was a celebrated pianist, great recording of Iberia, which Messiaen wrote was worthy of a place alongside Bach WTC. He must certainly have played, too, then?
@@ricardomoncayo7345 el rollo una vez grabado puede reproducirse en cualquier momento en la pianola adecuada czcams.com/video/z0EEVSYtjKc/video.html No son grabaciones acústicas, no las reproduce un tocasiscos sino un piano especial, por eso suenan tan bien, porque la reproducción del rollo se puede hacer en cualquier momento y grabarse como en ese video que te pasé
Boulez was an outstanding conductor, but his pieces utter nonsensical intellectualism with no heart. Would be interesting to hear him play a good piano piece to appreciate his skills as a pianist.
He himself did not like the composition he was playing. I really like Boulez's compositions like Répons, but some of his works, I think, have an intellectual hesitation, which I don't like, even Boulez doesn't like!
@@OzanFabienGuvener but he allowed it to be published after many years of being dormant so he must have had some fondness for ‘Notations’. To my mind, much better in their original conception for piano that the over saturated orchestrations / re interpretation from later in his life .
I'd like to be a naysayer. I believe the Bernstein video is speeded up. None of the actions look natural, including the other instrumentalists. I have evidence of this: a recording he made in the '60's that always sounded unnatural, the notes all a bit "tinny" because the recording was speeded up. That's just plain cheating. He was an excellent pianist, but he did not perform this piece like that.
Composer and pianist, more appropriately. His reputation is not based on whatever talent he had on the podium. He rarely conducted and left very few recordings of his conducting. 😐
And Vlafimir Aschkenasy the first pianist in this listing ? ? Except Aschkenasy all these great Maestros are conductors and after , only after solists pianists ? why it's impossible to be an international solist and also a conducteur ? it's easy to understand that a public-recital about two hours = twelve or more hours of technic-work a day , nothing more here it's that two careers are very rare , we can say that the Top of solist + conductor was Geza Anda with his Mozarteum of Salzbourg ( Grand Prix des Discophiles 1966 ) a success 100-100 ! C Zimerman very far from Geza also Aschkenasy ; also an exceptional two careers for Cortot + École Normale de Musique-Paris . J think really only Anda and Cortot were able to have two activities at the Top in the same time ; only Aschkenasy was great pianist in the first time and after only after a conductor but never puanist + conductor ! Zimerman is very very a pity time as a conductor and D Barenboim is not a pianist is not a conductor a failure 100-100 ; so here are not great famous pianist : M Ravel 's piano 🎹 concerto =:Samson François with L Fremeaux j agree and no Bernstein ! Mozart concerto 21 are Anda or Haskil at the top of N-21 and no Karajan ! also Walter with N-20 . Disappointing but curious pianists + conductors here j don't agree j don't like : Arthur Rubinstein was always smiling when he was watching his tiny pianisr-conductot Daniil Barenboim !
The first pianist is Boulez. Of course, these people are not professional pianists or, as you said, stopped practicing; Names such as Geza, Cortot, Ashkenazy continued their pianist career. It is pleasant to hear the conductors playing the piano even though they are not actively playing the piano. I think Walter's style goes very well with Mozart, for example: His bright vivid tone, orchestral timbre and his charming rubato in Viennese character. I also prefer French pianists for the Ravel concerto, I agree. Like Long, François, Perlemuter, Lefebure.
@@OzanFabienGuvener Ravel in first Marguerite Long above all , her S François in Ravel ctos with L Fremaux Orchestra Monte Carlo is for me the top also ; Perlemuter Lefebure of course Jean Doyen also . It's seems that j have listened in live Lili Kraus with Mozart at Alger ( 1958 ) very dar from to day but j remember her " Alla Turca " ; About Aschkenasy of course 1958-1980 but no after 80 he recorded all comosers very fast between 1980-1985 to become a good Orchestra-Maetro and littke little 🎹 ; two activities are imposdible for a solist who work 12-14H a day , often more : a Danse-Star at Paris-Opera it's 14H when they dance a ballet at 20H ; Pianists don't talk about their work ; Cortot had two activities no only piano but was Principal in own " Ecole Normale de Musique-Paris " . .
@@alainspiteri502 Oh you are right, Doyen's Ravel is also very valuable and I like it very much, definitely in the same league as the others. Ashkenazy was better before, for example Horowitz said: "Ashkenazy was good once. Not now." Cortot was a very busy person; editions, biographical books, teaching, directing and so on. This also affected his technique.
@@OzanFabienGuvener no only Lili Krauss at Alger , intellectual Alger : befors 1958 : Robert Casadesus - S Francois - Jeanne Marrie Darre - Lycette Descaves aand also Cuevas-compagnie ( 1958 ) Alger Consevatory also was a first time before CNParis ( Désiré N'Kaoua in first time Alger Conservatory ) perhaps Hélène Grimaux ? ( before Marseille and Paris ) . .
@@OzanFabienGuvener Correct. Horowitz also said that pianists should not divide themselves between playing and conducting. He said Rachmaninoff said that the muscles he used when conducting ruined his playing at the piano. I’ve heard early Barenboim. Especially good was his early recording of the Diabelli Variations. I have no time for him as a conductor, dislike his politics, and disregard his later pianistic offerings.
@@ianng9915 I respect your opinion, although I completely disagree about Karajan's conducting. As far as his politics, I didn't know anything -- or any other biographical details until long after I'd formed my negative opinion about his music. The world is wide, there is room enough for us all.
@@pepperco100 Von Karajan was a member of the Nazi party. So many, sadly, were complicit - Gieseking, Schwarzkopf, Cortot, and so on and on. The way I handle it is by accepting that _some_ of these collaborateurs were unquestionably great musicians, but that their support of the Nazis, however indirect it may or may not have have been, makes them forever detestable as people.
It is a minority of a minority who want to listen to the “music” of atonalists. Uchida, who plays Schoenberg’s Piano Concerto, described it as “incredibly ugly”. Atonal music is incredibly ugly. And that’s not music
Yeah, well Ms. Mitsuko is a Mozart avatar. Don't expect widest comprehension from some of them. To hear only ugliness from Schoenberg means you have a blind spot for the beauty.
@@bayreuth79 Well, I'll grant you this: it's a horizon that's been indifferently explored. And I personally vaunt Bartok, Prokofiev, Janacek and more of their ilk, over almost all of the atonalism. But to put a point on the thrust of that, I believe that atonal languages invite an exploration into important things that music alone can offer. I have loved Stockhausen's stuff since the first I heard it, in 1967, barely 15, wet behind the ears musicologically. But I have to be really centered and focussed to listen to it, and don't very often. Ligeti and Lutoslawski have a lot to say. Music that is difficult in access is always going to be a hard sell, for most, but that's no real argument against the genre, not at all. Not when the genre is practiced well and developed in worth. Furtwängler said that his only distinction in music is that it's either good art or bad art. It is dammed hard to make good art of the atonal, let alone anything resembling music, judging by a century of most results! But it begins there. I admire those who see important horizons in that realm, and are brave enough to fail miserably. It should be explored, but its zen needs more masters to make it work. Otherwise, a lot of litter. Schoenberg, Berg, Webern and some of their disciples have merely sketched a way for us, but are great geniuses at their best. I'll say this much: some of the failures should not be made public since they hurt the cause by littering an important landscape. Beethoven called his audience asses when they applauded all of his string quartet, except the große fuge. He was absolutely right, they were startled and wrong. I think it's important to remember that. The leading edge of new music will always be as a meritocracy, not a democracy. If people want new music to be a democracy, they should try John Adams, he's a politician that way.
Serious?! I saw Donald Rosenberg (chief music critic of The Cleveland Orchestra for The Plain Dealer then, and author of the massive tome, on the eve also then of its publication "The Cleveland Orchestra Story: Second to None") standing with a friend on the steps of "the house that George built (Severance Hall)" during an intermission, and had wanted to sound him out about Boulez, who came there often and had a storied relationship with TCO. He turned to glance at me, in casual conversation with a friend, and smiled, and so I ventured, "Where would you place Pierre Boulez in music today, in stature?" Without skipping a beat, he said point blank, "Greatest living musician." Me: Really? D.R.: I don't know who else it might be. I would consider Carlos Kleiber in the argument". Me: Well, I've always thought as you do, of Boulez as peerless, today. For someone as thoughtful and cerebral in his approach as Boulez, it's quite amazing how many Grammys he's been given. I spoke with Boulez several times and I always had to settle down, pulse-wise, somewhat, so in awe was I of his gifts and genius. Always so kind and witty, was he, RIP. And I don't always agree with his takes exactly, but his musicianship, as a once young protégé of Messiaen, is incomparable. He also is in the highest reaches, sometimes a little too high for my lungs, as composer. I have sat at lectures and listened to him say things about the last 70 years of composers that are pretty hilarious. Like John Adams as "bad movie music". Ouch. Ça caille! He said only Stockhausen is his peer as a modern day composer. And, from a certain solid perspective, of those who really can weigh it, I agree with that too, higher than as a performer. "Even". I heard him from the sweet spot in the Hall conduct Verklärte Nacht and it quite devastated me, adrift as I was in time and space, with its unapproachable beauty. Wow... I'll never be quite the same, though mindful of his gift. I tried the following week, February 1997, to zealously beg Robert Conrad (moderator/host of TCO broadcasts for 50+ years) to play it on WCLV, flagship station, but it wasn't funded as a unique Tuesday performance. A bassist told me some days after the performance that the Orchestra thought it had been "special" (as in "transcendent"). It was played just months before TCO went on strike, and their next contract stipulated that all their future concerts would be parallel broadcast online. So, I just missed being able to record it. "Boulez not a great conductor" you say? Thought I'd add this background as a counterweight.... [I had the privilege of talking briefly, before curtain, with Kurt Loebel, violinist with TCO, and I asked him about Boulez when Loebel was retiring that weekend, on his 50th anniversary (as we men sang Oedipus Rex with the band) having been hired by Szell in 1947. Loebel offered, "You know, I always remember George Szell telling me that Pierre Boulez was the most intelligent person he had ever known." So, there's that.]
@@johnervin8033 Thanks for your response, but it doesn't contain anything I haven't heard about Boulez, and nothing will change my mind about him. He remains incredibly overrated in my view. I saw him conduct twice, once with his group in Paris, and another with the Cleveland Orchestra, and musically I was unimpressed. Boulez intellectualized everything, and was unable, therefore uninterested in, the narrative in music. He conducted what was in the score, whether it be Mahler or Donatoni, and that was about it. He might have been exceptionally diligent concerning certain aspects of music, technically speaking, but interpretively, he did very little for me - what Schoenberg used to call a 'ziet klopfer', as opposed to a Furtwangler or Mahler. His interpretations of French music - Ravel, Debussy - to my ears, were passionless (I guess one would have to contemplate the sea when conducting La Mer, or rapture when conducting Daphnis et Chloe, as well as the notes, rhythms, tempos, and dynamics in the score). Ditto Schoenberg, Berg, and Mahler, and even the newest music. One remembers what Mahler said about music: "Music only begins with the notes."
@@muslit Well, I wasn't anticipating it would (change anyone's mind). I was offering it in a rhetorical way, and I had a feel for what you might reply. I was simply offering, as I put it here, a "counterweight". I will say that my tastes, or takes, have grown in certain areas over time. I didn't care much for Mahler til we sang his 2nd Symphony in Cleveland, and my entry into the work that way just boggled my mind. Same with Walton, after we'd rehearsed Belshazzar for months and sang it in Cleveland, and then with Rattle for EMI in Birmingham, I went almost 180° with it, boredom turned to love. I didn't really yet know how to listen to those two at first, and there are legions of people who don't know really how to listen to Boulez. Not you, perhaps, but I've known many others. Most of my favorite conductors, musicians, composers, physicists, etc, oddly, are champions of Mozart, who has, aside from a few pieces, bored me quite rigid since I was 8, and still does. Odder still is I get my warmest ovations when I sing or play Mozart, and the audience isn't at all aware that I was half asleep at the time. I watched a famous pianist from the risers during some Mahler and she was reading a magazine on her stand until her cue for the keyboard entry. Couldn't care less, which is quite unlike her. But the lesson I've learned is that as I've come over the years to hear some music in an unexpected or new way, my understanding and groove has deepened, and early distaste became love. Maybe my Mozart will get me in an Amadeus groove someday, since it really seems to please others. But at 70 I won't hold my breath, since I don't know if I still can! I draw a blank with him, but I often have heard the wonder of Boulez. Impressed beyond bounds, but for many he is at best like Churchill said of his love of cigars, for him in his India stint, it was very much "an acquired taste". But eventually embedded!
00:00 Pierre Boulez
playing the first movement of his own "Douze Notations".
01:00 Bruno Walter playing The First-Movement Cadenzas for Mozart Piano Concerto No. 20 in D Minor, K. 466.
03:08 Wilhelm Furtwängler playing The First-Movement Cadenzas for J.S. Bach Brandenburg Concerto No. 5, BWV 1050.
07:43 Arthur Nikisch
as a piano accompanist to the singer Elena Gerhardt, Robert Schumann's Ich Grolle Nicht.
10:23 Dimitri Mitropoulos
playing Sergei Prokofiev’s Piano Concerto No. 3.
12:38 Leonard Bernstein
playing Maurice Ravel's Piano Concerto in G major
14:50 Herbert von Karajan
playing Mozart's Piano Concerto No. 21.
17:22 Richard Strauss
Piano Roll (Welte-Mignon). Strauss's Dance of the Seven Veils from Salome.
19:40 Felix Mottl
Piano Roll. Richard Wagner's Tristan und Isolde, Prelude (Arr. for Piano).
22:57 Gustav Mahler
Piano Roll. Mahler's Fourth Symphony.
Gems!
@@noshirm6285 yes curiosities gems !
Fascinating, thanks
Furtwangler is a master of phrasing and sound and color as few others. Whether he conducts or plays piano. It is as if the last note is already contained as a necessity in the first - this is how convincing his music making is.
Furtwängler's playing of the Brandenburg 5 cadenza is magical. Thank you for this.
1/2 speed???
@@josephhapp9I see no problem with that
I know Karajan technically played the “easiest” piece on the docket here, but…I don’t know, it’s just so powerful, and such a representation of him, don’t you think😂 His conducting style is the same way. From a man who from his face seems cold and severe, emanates the deepest and most emotional understanding and connection to some of the most beautiful music in history. It touched me, it really did.
Bravo, Leonard Bernstein. The tempi and performance of Ravel's concerto is absolutely wonderful. I heard it on the radio back in the day!
The other performances are absolutely wonderful. These conductors and composers were master-pianists!
@violamateo Unfortunately, it was "a race to the finish" to impress people with Leonard's technique.
I prefer a more reasonable tempo!
Hearing Mahler is like hearing Beethoven ... To know " directly" his feelings about the end of the 4tg ... and the very slow Shumnan by Nikisch was great to hear!!! Thanks!!!
Felix Mottl here deserves some appreciation. Playing on the piano is extremely different from an orchestra. Here, from the man who gave the Bayreuth premiere of the ring and Tristan, he realizes the phrasing in Wagner, which is hinted here, where despite managing the piano, he doesn't let the piano lines interfere with the music itself.
I'm also glad that mitropolous got the recognition here. He was a great great conductor not very often brought up
What a brilliant idea ... what a wonderful upload ... Thank you very much indeed for this 💝💝💝
Thank you ... Thank you very much for your supportive and nice comment :)
@@OzanFabienGuvener 🌹
Thank you for this awesome upload Loved hearing Mahler.
Dimitri Mitropoulos definitely has a wonderful take on Prokofiev's third piano concerto.
Bernstein was a genius.
Wolf B : a genious pianist ? ?
?
In my opinion Karajan was a greater conductor.
All of them were in their own way.
Utterly miraculous playing from the whole ensemble.
Furtwangler bach is amazing, sound so beautiful, not like some popular clunky piano adaptations of clavicord without pedal...
True-spellbinding. Furtwangler is not debunkable.
Ursprünglich war das ja ein Konzert in der Berliner Philharmonie mit dem Philharmonischen
Orchester unter Karajans Leitung mit Alexis Weissenberg als Solist. Nun spielte der Pianist
den ersten Satz sehr schön und kurz bevor dann in Satz zwei das Klavier einsetzen wollte,
schob Karajan ihn sozusagen vom Hocker und stimmte selbst das Andante pianistisch
an, um zu zeigen: 'Seht Leute, ich kanns auch!' - Er fand das wohl lustig, ich hätte es lustiger
gefunden, wenn er einen Satz später diesen Einfall gehabt hätte. I was not amused! 🐇
I am moved to tears by Furtwaengler’s playing. Horowitz said the music is between the notes, but with Furtwaengler, the music is all around them…
1/2 speed?????
Великие музыканты, которым не хватало выразительных возможностей одного только фортепьяно и их музыкальный талант требовал самовыражения и больших возможностей, которые им и позволило проявить дирижирование. Мурашки от игры Караяна, Бруно Вальтера, Фуртвенглера...... Интересно, что дирижёров, которые первоначально играли на скрипке, намного меньше чем пианистов ставших великими дирижёрами...... Большое спасибо за возможность услышать уникальные записи! Для меня это большое открытие! 👍👏😍
Osea que los conductores tenían más talento y expresión que Chopin?
Quien era solo pianista y compositor?
No tengo una traducción de tu pregunta y por lo tanto no puedo responderte.
Mahler can play super great, but I love the direct and elemental musicianship of Mitropolous, and the heart of Walter.
furtwangler’s, bach is varied and powerful ❤️
Furtwängler shows his genius in trusting his adventurous instinct and revealing whole worlds in Bach (whose gift is oceanic to be rightly heard) that lesser ears have perpetually missed, in plenitude.
~~~~~~~£4£&$4$+my2¢
"In short, there is an element of elfin coincidence in life that those who are looking for the more prosaic may perpetually miss."
~~ G. K. Chesterton, "The Blue Cross" (Fr. Brown detective story)
What a treasure of an idea, Ozan Fabien Guvener! We hear the larger picture.....
Thank you so much!
Im astounded we have Boulez playing his Notation.He used to play hi 2nd Sonata for people.Ive never seen this rec of Walter playingMozk.466!Wow!
Bernstein conducting the Ravel G major concerto from the piano is about the most extreme example of musical virtuosity I've ever seen.
I saw him do it live with the Vienna Philharmonic in Paris (1971).
Check out Jan Lisiecki playing Ravel's Scarbo from Gaspard de la nuit. Probably Ravel's most difficult piano music.
@@muslit wow
There a LOT of better recordings of the Ravel (IMHO). And there are endless numbers of conductors who can lead from a keyboard, or other instruments, for hundreds of years.... So, there you go. My point is, Bernstein is surely talented, but widely overrated. As are his own compositions, which garnered any number of reviews that they were the bees knees, but are, like most American work in the genre, rather derivative.
@@johnervin8033 Bernstein was the first to admit that his music was eclectic, yet it always came out sounding like Bernstein. He and a number of other American composers (Barber, etc.) were instrumental in influencing later composers to use eclecticism in their own music. A number of Bernstein's works are already in the international repertory: the Violin Serenade, Dances from West Side Story, Chichester Psalms, West Side Story, On the Town, On The Waterfront Suite, Candide, Fancy Free, Mass, Symphony no. 1, Symphony no. 2. However, much of his music did not garner the 'bees knees' when premiered. Critics were far more critical than supportive. As far as the Ravel concerto is concerned, true, conductors do perform as soloists and conduct at the same time (violinists, pianists, etc.), but try to find another playing and conducting the Ravel concerto.
Did i just hear nikisch??? CZcams is best thing ever happened
No big deal. Artur Nikisch passed away in 1922, and conducted almost until his last days. Pneumonia probably was a reason of his death at the age of 67.
His performance is captivating and irreplaceable
From
A corner of Tokyo with cherry blossoms falling
Bravo bravissimo Leonard Bernstein!
貴重で素晴らしい音源を有難うけございます✨🙏
I had already seen Karajan playing this concerto. He also played the harpsichord part in Brandeburger concertos (while conducting, naturally).
I've been sick for some time and unable to listen to music...now I can!! What a pleasure to come back to ozan fabien guvener and his extraordinary works.
Thank you! I hope you'll get better soon Stephen.
I find Mahler's playing most intriguing.
Boulez was a conductor, composer and also a music teacher. He was a very good in Schumann and Wagner music, talking about German repertoire. He conducted the whole Richard Wagner Ring cycle at the Bayreuth festival in 1976. Commemoration of the 100 year anniversary of those music events.
Bruno Walter has a lovely touch even if he kills Mozart. Furtwangler plays the Bach as if it were written by Wagner. Builds an impressive crescendo. Devotional playing.
Furtwängler's line, touch and crescendo are simply stupendous - I think Bach would have fallen off his chair...
@@skisunfb Only because he'd fallen asleep.
Furtwängler plays Bach in a way that would give today's Bach speed freaks a stroke. Savoring a whole different realm of architecture in Bach that certainly is a worshipful option. (George Martin plays this cadenza with Klemperer on Angel in a more preferable allegro tempo, and peerlesly, though I totally respect Furtwängler's approach and great spirit he invests in the music.) I can only wish for more that are closer to that kind of credible Bach tempos, since it would be such a relief from the meth addict fads in Bach the last 40 years which are breakneck fast, mostly quite silly in their celerity. I have no shadow of a doubt that Bach would agree with that, and I also have played a lot of Bach in recitals, not too slow and not too fast, LOL
First time I heard Furtwangler at the keyboard, though, and am grateful to hear this validation.
By the bye, the Mahler piano rolls are mesmerizing, what a master, the jewel of this catalogue. Bernstein is not a patch on his pants, very talented but no genius, undermined perhaps by a lack of true depth and taste, tainted by echoes of schmaltz, always, though he often enough overachieves. Karajan has always appalled me spiritually, so gooey and out of touch. Boulez is a great genius, I have had the privilege of talking to him and questioning him several times, though briefly, mostly out of shyness in the presence of such a master. One must prep one's ears and mind to access someone so far in front, a lot.
@@bobschaaf2549 Well, compared, if that's all one has on the current sad menu, to Bach versions of the last 40 years, which mostly are crazy as bugs. Crazier, in their frantic tempi. I'm certain Bach would agree. Ludicrous, really, in a musical and spiritual sense, anyone who likes the prestos of these days in Bach doesn't have a clue about Bach, though too many think they do.
Must be the crystal meth
@@johnervin8033 Re: Furtwängler, Mahler, Bernstein, Karajan, Boulez. 👍👍😂. Spot on! 👏
Thanks !
Parabéns❗ Bom e agradável trabalho.
Delightful!
My favorite video on CZcams! Thanks for uploading!
Since these guys don't have 10 hours a day to practice I salute them all. I was surprised by von Karajan's poor technique. Sticking out the elbows is a no no. Bernstein is too saccharine and self satisfied. I liked Motl's Tristan. It had real feeling. Furtwangler turned the 5th Brandenburg cadenza into a meditation, which seems poor style. His recording of the Beethoven Violin Concerto with Yehudi Menuhin is beyond good. He was a great musician. I liked Mitropolous doing Prokofieff. No showing off or drama. Just the music with good modernist style. Mahler seemed ordinary at first but by the time the piece was over I knew I had been somewhere. Thank you for this unique collection. It has so much value for everyone.
a very fair assessment. However, I think Furtwangler’s Bach works rather well on its own terms . Incredibly well shaped .
Merci 🙏
WALTER t h e very beautiful surprise here
My favorite
very good idea, thanks...
It must be a hard to be the soloist and conductor at the same time!! 😉😅
How do you manage to conduct an orchestra when you're focusing on the keyboard you're playing?
Most of the work is done in rehearsal. Once the tempo, dynamics, and other details are worked out it's just a matter of sticking to them during the live performance. Even then, a conductor can give cues to the orchestra using nods, shaking their head, whatever gets the message across. 🐧
Thanks.
Way to go Dimitri. I didn’t know he could play like that. And, yes, Lenny was a god. In fact, doesn’t the story go that Lenny loved the Ravel concerto so much that he could play it if he were awakened at 2am?
Karajan... How can you get so many wrong notes in such a simple movement as this one???
If Karajan had to conduct a pianist who plays like that he would have told him to go work home and humiliate him...!
15:27 He's playing A and C instead of C and Eb and the conclusion of the phrase is one octave lower than what it's written.
15:35 There is an artistic and deep gesture but... no notes... then instead of the F he's playing D... and again he played the conclusion of the phrase an octave below.
16:12 Wrong left hands on the third beat, he's playing C E G instead of C F G
16:40 he's not even tryng to play the left hand chords, it's clearly visible...!!
Grande vergogna, it's a shame.
Even more strange: some months ago here has been the complete video - unfortunately, it has been deleted meanwhile.
It is in fact a performance with Alexis Weissenberg. After the 1st mvt. Weissenberg makes his seat free for Karajan who plays the 2nd mvt. At the very end of the excerpt here, it can be seen how Karajan stands up again to go back to his conducting podium and Weissenberg will come back and play the last mvt.
It has been discussed whether Weissenberg felt not so well - on the other hand, in this state the 2nd mvt. is probably the easiest one. Moreover, it looks like it was a planned act, although the fact that Mr. Weissenberg would NOT play the 2nd mvt. nowhere has been announced.
The piquant thing is - and maybe the reason for the removal of the video - that Karajan immediatly after he re-entered the podium, few seconds after the excerpt presented here, made a complete mess of the beginning of the last mvt. which was totally damaged because half of the orchestra misunderstood him. You could see in the original video that he was very angry about that, but obviously, it was a live broadcasting on french Radio and thus there was no opportunity to interrupt.
@@borisbrinkmann I didn't know all these events, I thought it was a private recording and no audience...! I find this extremely surprising on Karajan's part, such a lack of preparation to the point of no longer knowing how to play such a "simple" movement and especially of losing control over the introduction of the 3rd movement which is far from being complex...The fact that Karajan is so unprepared in front of an audience shocks me, I would be extremely curious to see the full concert... thanks for the information
@@borisbrinkmann I found it on Vimeo but I can't send you the link here, but you was right... even the end the third cadenza.. A disaster
@@rossini9mozart10 That's interesting - did you find it in color or black/white? As far as I remember, the former complete video on yt was b/w.
I thought that it was really a spontaneous cry for help by Weissenberg (but maybe I was influenced by the former discussion), and that Karajan really wasn't prepared to do so. I was rather impressed that he was able to jump in at least to this extent (but I didn't check out the failers so precisely yet)... On the other hand, it really looks planned somehow... It's really odd...
To the beginning of the 3rd mvt.: As far as I remember, due to the fact that Karajan arrived right from his excursion, part of the orchestra considered his avviso not clear - what is rather plausible, but what in his case, of course, is a matter of blasphemy... 😎
@@borisbrinkmann I found it in color, it's now an avalaible by INA archives (French archives of tv programs)
I don't think Weissenberg was in trouble, the tv show where the concert was played is "Le Grand Echiquier" and the classical artists that makes that show always played a bit... so Karajan made it.
Another conducter, playing piano ~
George Szell, Georg Solti, Wolfgang Sawallisch, Daniel Barenboim ᆢ
Thank you for the additions. Do we have piano recordings of these people? I didn't include Barenboim because he is known for his piano career (Like Ashkenazy, Cortot, Rachmaninoff).
@@OzanFabienGuvener then there are George Szell and James Levine, too
and Andrè Previn, he is also a famed pianist, but I think his conducting career overshadows his works as a pianist. So maybe an adequate addition to the list?
@@OzanFabienGuvener I offered Messiaen, but I must have conflated great organist with great conductor, alas...
But Dohnanyi is no slouch, and he was concurrently head of Philharmonia and Cleveland, two of the world's Big 5. That might qualify. I read that he worked for Solti as his first big gig, as répetiteur for Frankfurt Öper, certainly he played a lot of piano, but I am not aware of any recordings.
Stravinsky was truly a "great conductor" of his own works, though not widely known for many others.
And Klemperer. A great one, he played?
There are others. Didn't Solti?
@@OzanFabienGuvener Michael Tilson Thomas is certainly one of the notable contemporary pianist/conductors--his "Rhapsody in Blue" is especially characterful and idiomatic
In the clip of Furtwangler playing, there is another pianist in the background looking remarkably like Wilhelm Kempff.
Yes, that person must be Kempff.
My opinion is, that there are genuine conductors playing piano, and genuine pianists conducting. The conducting pianists are normally good pianists like Previn who was also a gifted jazz pianist !, Pletnev, Christian Zacharias, Leonard Bernstein, George Szell, Philipp Entremont. The best piano playing genuine conductor was in my opinion Wolfgang Sawallisch.
Nikisch as a piano accompanist to the singer Elena Gerhardt, Robert Schumann's Ich Grolle Nicht. Amazing!
Furtwangler divino!
I want to heard Boulez playing Mozart
When Wm. Furtwangler was about 17 his piano teacher had Wm. learn all the Beethoven sonattas
Mahler could really lay it down :)
WOW, no "scheiße" !!
Se Bach avesse avuto il pianoforte avrebbe suonato come Furtwangler
Great vid. Perhaps add a bit of Solti too?
Thank you for adding, I forgot him. Is there a solo recording of Solti? Except Mozart's "Concerto for 3 pianos".
Years ago, Solti and the Chicago Symphony Orchestra were to give two performances in San Francisco. Their instruments, scores, and formal attire were on a truck which was delayed in arriving due to a snowstorm in Nevada.
In order to pass the time while waiting for the arrival of the truck, we were treated to performances of chamber music by members of the CSO and - making his American debut as a pianist - George Solti! 😺
@@OzanFabienGuvener Solti and Murray Pariah doing a Mozart sonata for two pianos.
I saw him Mozart's Piano Concerto No. 20 recording, it was amazing.
Someone should have told Pierre Boulez where to put the lid prop of a concert grand.
You can't instruct "geniuses" - even the talentless ones.
In the photo of Furtwaengler is that a young Wilhelm Kempff in the background?
Yes!
Круто!
Every conductor must be able to play piano. He needs it to conduct rehearsals with orchestras and future soloists. However, some conductors began their careers as pianists and then either merged with or completely switched it to conducting. I know that Bruno Walter, Mitropoulos, Bernstein or Wolfgang Sawallisch were perfect pianists. Arturo Toscanini played piano despite that by his own education he should play cello. I think, that piano is the basic instrument you need to master before you start to focus on playing any other instrument.
Furtwangler genio del piano tambien
von Karajan: a very great musician!
pity you didn't include Rostropovich - as he was a fine conductor (I met him after he'd conducted Shostakovich) and pianist (Richter said of him 'he can do everything')
You're right, but Rostropovich is primarily a cellist and I have another video in mind on this subject .I would like to compile piano recordings of non-pianist classical musicians (such as violinist, cellist, flutist, singer) Rostropovich will be there. I thought he would be more suitable for the other video. I like him piano playing.
Mahlers spielen ist unwahrscheinlich, danke
That's Mahler, that's for sure. But it's a piano roll.
God damn, Bernstein can fucking play!
Then your next upload is obvious - 10 great pianists conduct!?
I thought about this idea too, but no :)
LMAO 😭🤣
Richter
😀
@@OzanFabienGuvener How about Stravinsky at the keyboard, didn't he raise funds at an early age, on tour in Europe as a pianist.
And Boulez' first prof, Olivier Messiaen. He was a fixture in Paris as organist, but his wife Yvonne Loriod was a celebrated pianist, great recording of Iberia, which Messiaen wrote was worthy of a place alongside Bach WTC.
He must certainly have played, too, then?
You could have added Svetlanov playing Nicolai Medtner.
oh you are so right, i forgot :(
Karajan almost became an engineer too.
Gustav Mahler is the best.
yes
Agreed. Astounding performance, coming through on the piano roll. We sang his 2nd Symphony, and the performance changed my life for good.
Como fastidian. Nno interrumpan. Esta locos?
Mahler!! Gasp!!
uh, hold on a second.....
..
boulez hit a wrong note
Was Mahler's playing sped up, or edited in the piano roll?
I don't know
ブーレーズが凄い筈だよ。第二ソナタ弾けたから書けた。そもそも、パリ音楽院の全ての教科の首席でしょう。クセナキスは、自分が弾ける事を前提で書いていないから。メシアンよりブーレーズの方が曲は難しいから技術も上。ブーレーズのピアノ初めて見た。感激しました。
Boulez also records his 3rd piano sonata. I suggest you :)
What a shame that Boulez is only playing his own twaddle. It would be nice to hear him try a middle-period Beethoven sonata or a Chopin etude.
¿Por que suenan tan bien las grabaciones hechas en piano roll?, siendo tan antiguas.
Capaz porque la reproducción del roll es reciente
@@pedrofuster9161 no te entiendo.¿Me estás hablando de las famosas remasterizaciones?, si es eso, son remasterizaciones extraordinarias!!
@@ricardomoncayo7345 el rollo una vez grabado puede reproducirse en cualquier momento en la pianola adecuada czcams.com/video/z0EEVSYtjKc/video.html
No son grabaciones acústicas, no las reproduce un tocasiscos sino un piano especial, por eso suenan tan bien, porque la reproducción del rollo se puede hacer en cualquier momento y grabarse como en ese video que te pasé
@@pedrofuster9161 ahora entiendo y el video terminó por aclararme todo.
Where is Rachmaninoff?
Rachmaninoff is better known as a pianist than as a conductor, so I didn't add it to the list. But yes, Rachmaninoff's conducting is also first class.
Was Furtwangler asleep, or just the audience?
What about Barenboim?
Barenboim started his career as a pianist. Names in this selection are mostly known as conductor.
Boulez was an outstanding conductor, but his pieces utter nonsensical intellectualism with no heart. Would be interesting to hear him play a good piano piece to appreciate his skills as a pianist.
He himself did not like the composition he was playing. I really like Boulez's compositions like Répons, but some of his works, I think, have an intellectual hesitation, which I don't like, even Boulez doesn't like!
@@OzanFabienGuvener but he allowed it to be published after many years of being dormant so he must have had some fondness for ‘Notations’. To my mind, much better in their original conception for piano that the over saturated orchestrations / re interpretation from later in his life .
I'd like to be a naysayer. I believe the Bernstein video is speeded up. None of the actions look natural, including the other instrumentalists. I have evidence of this: a recording he made in the '60's that always sounded unnatural, the notes all a bit "tinny" because the recording was speeded up. That's just plain cheating. He was an excellent pianist, but he did not perform this piece like that.
The only really great musician and coductor was Rachmaninof, the Beethoven of the 20th century.
Rachmaninoff is better known as a pianist than as a conductor, so I didn't add it to the list. But yes, Rachmaninoff's conducting is also first class.
Composer and pianist, more appropriately. His reputation is not based on whatever talent he had on the podium. He rarely conducted and left very few recordings of his conducting. 😐
And Vlafimir Aschkenasy the first pianist in this listing ? ? Except Aschkenasy all these great Maestros are conductors and after , only after solists pianists ? why it's impossible to be an international solist and also a conducteur ? it's easy to understand that a public-recital about two hours = twelve or more hours of technic-work a day , nothing more here it's that two careers are very rare , we can say that the Top of solist + conductor was Geza Anda with his Mozarteum of Salzbourg ( Grand Prix des Discophiles 1966 ) a success 100-100 ! C Zimerman very far from Geza also Aschkenasy ; also an exceptional two careers for Cortot + École Normale de Musique-Paris . J think really only Anda and Cortot were able to have two activities at the Top in the same time ; only Aschkenasy was great pianist in the first time and after only after a conductor but never puanist + conductor ! Zimerman is very very a pity time as a conductor and D Barenboim is not a pianist is not a conductor a failure 100-100 ; so here are not great famous pianist : M Ravel 's piano 🎹 concerto =:Samson François with L Fremeaux j agree and no Bernstein ! Mozart concerto 21 are Anda or Haskil at the top of N-21 and no Karajan ! also Walter with N-20 . Disappointing but curious pianists + conductors here j don't agree j don't like : Arthur Rubinstein was always smiling when he was watching his tiny pianisr-conductot Daniil Barenboim !
The first pianist is Boulez. Of course, these people are not professional pianists or, as you said, stopped practicing; Names such as Geza, Cortot, Ashkenazy continued their pianist career. It is pleasant to hear the conductors playing the piano even though they are not actively playing the piano. I think Walter's style goes very well with Mozart, for example: His bright vivid tone, orchestral timbre and his charming rubato in Viennese character. I also prefer French pianists for the Ravel concerto, I agree. Like Long, François, Perlemuter, Lefebure.
@@OzanFabienGuvener Ravel in first Marguerite Long above all , her S François in Ravel ctos with L Fremaux Orchestra Monte Carlo is for me the top also ; Perlemuter Lefebure of course Jean Doyen also . It's seems that j have listened in live Lili Kraus with Mozart at Alger ( 1958 ) very dar from to day but j remember her " Alla Turca " ; About Aschkenasy of course 1958-1980 but no after 80 he recorded all comosers very fast between 1980-1985 to become a good Orchestra-Maetro and littke little 🎹 ; two activities are imposdible for a solist who work 12-14H a day , often more : a Danse-Star at Paris-Opera it's 14H when they dance a ballet at 20H ; Pianists don't talk about their work ; Cortot had two activities no only piano but was Principal in own " Ecole Normale de Musique-Paris " . .
@@alainspiteri502 Oh you are right, Doyen's Ravel is also very valuable and I like it very much, definitely in the same league as the others. Ashkenazy was better before, for example Horowitz said: "Ashkenazy was good once. Not now." Cortot was a very busy person; editions, biographical books, teaching, directing and so on. This also affected his technique.
@@OzanFabienGuvener no only Lili Krauss at Alger , intellectual Alger : befors 1958 : Robert Casadesus - S Francois - Jeanne Marrie Darre - Lycette Descaves aand also Cuevas-compagnie ( 1958 ) Alger Consevatory also was a first time before CNParis ( Désiré N'Kaoua in first time Alger Conservatory ) perhaps Hélène Grimaux ? ( before Marseille and Paris ) . .
@@OzanFabienGuvener Correct. Horowitz also said that pianists should not divide themselves between playing and conducting. He said Rachmaninoff said that the muscles he used when conducting ruined his playing at the piano. I’ve heard early Barenboim. Especially good was his early recording of the Diabelli Variations. I have no time for him as a conductor, dislike his politics, and disregard his later pianistic offerings.
Ha! I dislike Karajan even more as a pianist than I do as a conductor. What a hairdo though!
Put aside his political stance, he is definitely one of the greatest conductors and my personal favorite conductor
@@ianng9915 I respect your opinion, although I completely disagree about Karajan's conducting. As far as his politics, I didn't know anything -- or any other biographical details until long after I'd formed my negative opinion about his music. The world is wide, there is room enough for us all.
@@pepperco100 Von Karajan was a member of the Nazi party. So many, sadly, were complicit - Gieseking, Schwarzkopf, Cortot, and so on and on. The way I handle it is by accepting that _some_ of these collaborateurs were unquestionably great musicians, but that their support of the Nazis, however indirect it may or may not have have been, makes them forever detestable as people.
@@pepperco100 Agreed.
@@ianng9915 Nah...you're WRONG! Karajan is the most overrated, under talented conductor of the 20th century. Great hair though, right?
It is a minority of a minority who want to listen to the “music” of atonalists. Uchida, who plays Schoenberg’s Piano Concerto, described it as “incredibly ugly”. Atonal music is incredibly ugly. And that’s not music
Yeah, well Ms. Mitsuko is a Mozart avatar. Don't expect widest comprehension from some of them. To hear only ugliness from Schoenberg means you have a blind spot for the beauty.
@@johnervin8033 Atonal music is a nonsense. No one really wants it.
@@bayreuth79 Well, I'll grant you this: it's a horizon that's been indifferently explored.
And I personally vaunt Bartok, Prokofiev, Janacek and more of their ilk, over almost all of the atonalism.
But to put a point on the thrust of that, I believe that atonal languages invite an exploration into important things that music alone can offer.
I have loved Stockhausen's stuff since the first I heard it, in 1967, barely 15, wet behind the ears musicologically. But I have to be really centered and focussed to listen to it, and don't very often.
Ligeti and Lutoslawski have a lot to say. Music that is difficult in access is always going to be a hard sell, for most, but that's no real argument against the genre, not at all. Not when the genre is practiced well and developed in worth. Furtwängler said that his only distinction in music is that it's either good art or bad art.
It is dammed hard to make good art of the atonal, let alone anything resembling music, judging by a century of most results! But it begins there.
I admire those who see important horizons in that realm, and are brave enough to fail miserably. It should be explored, but its zen needs more masters to make it work. Otherwise, a lot of litter.
Schoenberg, Berg, Webern and some of their disciples have merely sketched a way for us, but are great geniuses at their best.
I'll say this much: some of the failures should not be made public since they hurt the cause by littering an important landscape.
Beethoven called his audience asses when they applauded all of his string quartet, except the große fuge. He was absolutely right, they were startled and wrong. I think it's important to remember that.
The leading edge of new music will always be as a meritocracy, not a democracy.
If people want new music to be a democracy, they should try John Adams, he's a politician that way.
I would not call Boulez a great conductor.
Serious?! I saw Donald Rosenberg (chief music critic of The Cleveland Orchestra for The Plain Dealer then, and author of the massive tome, on the eve also then of its publication "The Cleveland Orchestra Story: Second to None") standing with a friend on the steps of "the house that George built (Severance Hall)" during an intermission, and had wanted to sound him out about Boulez, who came there often and had a storied relationship with TCO. He turned to glance at me, in casual conversation with a friend, and smiled, and so I ventured, "Where would you place Pierre Boulez in music today, in stature?"
Without skipping a beat, he said point blank, "Greatest living musician."
Me: Really?
D.R.: I don't know who else it might be. I would consider Carlos Kleiber in the argument".
Me: Well, I've always thought as you do, of Boulez as peerless, today.
For someone as thoughtful and cerebral in his approach as Boulez, it's quite amazing how many Grammys he's been given.
I spoke with Boulez several times and I always had to settle down, pulse-wise, somewhat, so in awe was I of his gifts and genius. Always so kind and witty, was he, RIP. And I don't always agree with his takes exactly, but his musicianship, as a once young protégé of Messiaen, is incomparable. He also is in the highest reaches, sometimes a little too high for my lungs, as composer. I have sat at lectures and listened to him say things about the last 70 years of composers that are pretty hilarious. Like John Adams as "bad movie music". Ouch. Ça caille! He said only Stockhausen is his peer as a modern day composer.
And, from a certain solid perspective, of those who really can weigh it, I agree with that too, higher than as a performer. "Even". I heard him from the sweet spot in the Hall conduct Verklärte Nacht and it quite devastated me, adrift as I was in time and space, with its unapproachable beauty. Wow... I'll never be quite the same, though mindful of his gift. I tried the following week, February 1997, to zealously beg Robert Conrad (moderator/host of TCO broadcasts for 50+ years) to play it on WCLV, flagship station, but it wasn't funded as a unique Tuesday performance. A bassist told me some days after the performance that the Orchestra thought it had been "special" (as in "transcendent"). It was played just months before TCO went on strike, and their next contract stipulated that all their future concerts would be parallel broadcast online. So, I just missed being able to record it.
"Boulez not a great conductor" you say? Thought I'd add this background as a counterweight....
[I had the privilege of talking briefly, before curtain, with Kurt Loebel, violinist with TCO, and I asked him about Boulez when Loebel was retiring that weekend, on his 50th anniversary (as we men sang Oedipus Rex with the band) having been hired by Szell in 1947. Loebel offered, "You know, I always remember George Szell telling me that Pierre Boulez was the most intelligent person he had ever known."
So, there's that.]
@@johnervin8033 Thanks for your response, but it doesn't contain anything I haven't heard about Boulez, and nothing will change my mind about him. He remains incredibly overrated in my view. I saw him conduct twice, once with his group in Paris, and another with the Cleveland Orchestra, and musically I was unimpressed. Boulez intellectualized everything, and was unable, therefore uninterested in, the narrative in music. He conducted what was in the score, whether it be Mahler or Donatoni, and that was about it. He might have been exceptionally diligent concerning certain aspects of music, technically speaking, but interpretively, he did very little for me - what Schoenberg used to call a 'ziet klopfer', as opposed to a Furtwangler or Mahler. His interpretations of French music - Ravel, Debussy - to my ears, were passionless (I guess one would have to contemplate the sea when conducting La Mer, or rapture when conducting Daphnis et Chloe, as well as the notes, rhythms, tempos, and dynamics in the score). Ditto Schoenberg, Berg, and Mahler, and even the newest music. One remembers what Mahler said about music: "Music only begins with the notes."
@@muslit Well, I wasn't anticipating it would (change anyone's mind). I was offering it in a rhetorical way, and I had a feel for what you might reply. I was simply offering, as I put it here, a "counterweight".
I will say that my tastes, or takes, have grown in certain areas over time. I didn't care much for Mahler til we sang his 2nd Symphony in Cleveland, and my entry into the work that way just boggled my mind. Same with Walton, after we'd rehearsed Belshazzar for months and sang it in Cleveland, and then with Rattle for EMI in Birmingham, I went almost 180° with it, boredom turned to love.
I didn't really yet know how to listen to those two at first, and there are legions of people who don't know really how to listen to Boulez. Not you, perhaps, but I've known many others.
Most of my favorite conductors, musicians, composers, physicists, etc, oddly, are champions of Mozart, who has, aside from a few pieces, bored me quite rigid since I was 8, and still does.
Odder still is I get my warmest ovations when I sing or play Mozart, and the audience isn't at all aware that I was half asleep at the time.
I watched a famous pianist from the risers during some Mahler and she was reading a magazine on her stand until her cue for the keyboard entry. Couldn't care less, which is quite unlike her.
But the lesson I've learned is that as I've come over the years to hear some music in an unexpected or new way, my understanding and groove has deepened, and early distaste became love.
Maybe my Mozart will get me in an Amadeus groove someday, since it really seems to please others. But at 70 I won't hold my breath, since I don't know if I still can!
I draw a blank with him, but I often have heard the wonder of Boulez. Impressed beyond bounds, but for many he is at best like Churchill said of his love of cigars, for him in his India stint, it was very much "an acquired taste". But eventually embedded!
Well Stravinsky had some pretty good things to say about him. So…
@@Tyrell_Corp2019 He said some pretty good things about Bernstein as well.
You could have added Svetlanov playing Nicolai Medtner.
Georg Solti was a good pianist