Ugh! This means I have to do THREE TIMES the fact checking of smug a-holes, and infinite more fact checking of ignorant rubes! Is there a way you do fact checking that makes it fun? I think I'm doing it wrong.
@@Ian_sothejokeworks in my opinion, I don't think fact checking should be fun. If you research about serious and complicated topics, you shouldn't try to make it fun when you're checking, idk, if a survey abt discrimination in the workplace is right or not, yknow? You're checking to found a steady base of knowledge on the subject, I wouldn't personally expect it to be "fun" , that's just my opinion tho!
@@ziglaus This was said in context of doing YOUR OWN research. If you found something you agree with, then check it twice, etc. So i agree with this on the surface, but if you'ver already fact checked something and found supporting evidence, but then a related argument comes up, IMO you can count your previous evidence for it, if it's relevant. Evidence doesn't have to be independant. So... my first inclination was to say "good grief, how exhausting", but then I realized, it's easy if you already have a body of evidence from previous fact checks. Also I'll re-iterate, this is not when arguing with someone. You don't have to find twice the evidence for someone else... just do what you want to do, whether it's disengaging, giving your opinion and anecdotes, or giving instructions on how to find the evidence you found before, it's all good. It's a waste of energy to be writing peer reviewed comment responses to terfs :p
I've always hated responses like "google is free". It's pompous and annoying. Google isn't even all that accurate to recommend it as a resource for learning complex things.
I agree. The alternative of not answering is better than this, in my opinion. That leaves the space open for someone else to pick up the question without introducing annoyed energy.
@names arefortheliving Believe it or not: Wikipedia. It's not perfect. But it's better than Google, and it can give an introduction to complex topics like trans identity, systemic racism, etc. That being said, it is always better to recommend good content creators or specific YT videos that address the topic, if you know any.
I think this is a good conversation to have about activism, but I find a lot of people who say "It is not my job to educate you" are referring to the fact that marginalization is NOT the same as activism. Black people do not need to answer people's questions about race simply because they're black online. Gay people don't need to answer questions about their sexuality umprompted. People are not inherently political because of their social position, and that is what I often get from the phrase.
@Cece Burton - Thank you! I just posted a long comment before I saw yours. I am not a spokesperson for Black gay women just because I happen to be a Black gay woman. It's beyond exhausting to constantly field those types of questions, especially when there are countless resources available for people to read, listen to, watch, etc. if they really want to learn about issues pertaining to race, sexuality, gender identity, etc.
yea, but usually the question is made after certain statement if you already talking about an subject, why wouldn't people expect you to answer a question about it?
@@pedrohdalla I'm talking about the fact that black people not engaging in any online activism will still be asked questions by non black people about race/racism. As a black person I will say it absolutely does it have to be prompted by a statement regarding race, and that is not the scenario I'm referring to.
In Australia there’s a show that tries to deal with this. It’s called “you can’t ask that”, and people send in all types of (often terrible) ignorant questions about different marginalised groups. Each episode has a few members from a marginalised group who have volunteered to be on the show, instead of random people who might not feel prepared to tackle difficult questions. They read out, often react to, answer, and discuss the questions with each other and to the camera. Not only is it great for any “normie” TV viewer to become more educated about marginalised groups, it’s also a fantastic way for people from different marginalised groups to learn about each other.
As a gay man I often get accused of sugarcoating these issues for straight people, but education and patience IS the solution. One technique is raising awareness and the other is creating and empowering a community. Both are valid options, both are necessary
I'm super curious...where do you think the line is for you personally when it comes to breaking things down in a simple, patient, understandable way and maybe indulging straight people who feel like they are owed education with a smile from _every_ queer person they come across? I agree that there is value in educating people on things that you may think are obvious, but I think sometimes privileged groups can act like they are entitled to education that is only ever on their terms or that never makes them uncomfortable or challenges them. Some gay people will 'sugarcoat' but not every gay person a straight person comes across will, and I don't know if we should be encouraging straight people to only ever listen to the gays that 'spoon-feed' them info or who only ever engage with them in a way they want to be engaged with. It can feel like encouraging fragility to some degree.
@@Lisa_Flowers i totally agree and i'll also say that i do not have the answer. But I often see this attitude of "i don't care if you're a homophobe" when in reality getting rid of homophobia is actually very important to us. On another note, when i defend this idea of dialogue over disagreement, i expect to see it from big companies or influential brands that willingly engage in these conversations, not from individuals
Why not, unless you are dure someone wants to know really everything , overseeable basics , with humor, is more easy to stomache. And misconception should be educated away somehow.
I often get confused that people talk so much about kindness and empathy but when someone disagrees with them it all goes out of the wondow. No one wants to listen to someone who is yelling at them. If we agree so majorly on peace and peaceful protest, the reason peaceful protest worked for ghandi is because it went to far. Even if you don't agree you want to empathise with people who are nice. If you are already thereatened by an idea, a preson being threatning over it is only going to reinforce your idea. I am never sure why people don't take this into account.
@@lunarose9 there is a fundamental difference between disagreeing with someone and invalidating/attacking their literal human rights, personhood, or existence. I rather think people deserve to be angry if that is what this 'disagreement' entails, because then it isn't just intellectual, it affects their actual lived experience and often even life or death.
"just google it" is especially frustrating to hear in the disabled community, where everyone has a different experience. i have a deformity that corrects itself in 95% of people - googling it will tell you nothing about actually living with the condition, nevermind my specific experience with comorbidities.
There is also the danger in coming across misinformation as well. For someone that knows nothing about a given topic, it can be difficult to distill truth from noise.
Google is horrible with neurodivesity it's more accurate as medicalized bullying than education I don't have personal experience with anything else but autism is not even a communication disorder everything affects communication it's very different for every person so it's hard to say more than it is itself without a writing whole essay it's complicated be more specific
Yeah. If people express interest in my disability/condition, then I direct them to specific sources that I know gives accurate and nuanced information. Otherwise general searches about blindness and albinism is more likely to do more damage than not knowing anything at all.
The thing I end up doing most often is if someone asks me a question I will respond with "First tell me how much you already know about this subject so I know what information to give you." This is a technique I use when training new people at work, but it also works when people ask invasive questions about marginalized people. It puts the onus on them as the one asking the question to have to put energy and effort into the conversation instead of just heaping it all on the marginalized person. It can force someone to engage in some critical thinking about what information they have already absorbed on the topic and sometimes why they are even asking the question in the first place. Obviously any response should be situationally and personally determined, but this is a bit of a good middle ground place between saying "just google it" and taking all the effort upon yourself to educate someone.
Thank you!!!!! As a lefty who has been in a lot of leftist spaces in the rural midwest of America, it is really hard for me to deal with the kind of "just google it sweaty" sorts of people because I've met so many people who are legitimately empathetic and want to help with LGBT+, disability, racial, and other social issues but really don't know where to start or how to engage, and the very callous and sometimes nasty response puts them off. I totally get not having the headspace to educate someone, but a lot of people legitimately do want to understand social issues that they just have little to no exposure to. At those kinds of union meetings and leftist spaces in the midwest, I literally can't count how many rural American farmers and factory workers I've been able to pull leftwards on social issues that they just didn't have the exposure to in order to understand. People forget how our education systems often erase the plight of marginalized people, which is why it's important to spread that message far and wide.
I don't believe I've ever personally told someone to Google something themselves but I do believe that no one has an obligation to educate people if it's just random people online. Like others have said if they are people who dedicate their time to educate people I would be put off by comments like that. As someone who's had to find their own way to educate themselves be it podcasts books or CZcams perhaps I should count myself lucky that I didn't fall down the wrong rabbit hole
Some of us are extremely tired of having to educate bumpkins over and over and over. So for those of us who aren't CHWMs... It's not our job to justify our existence as valid to the likes of CHWM.
It can be difficult as an autistic person trying to educate themselves on social issues. You see "why did no one consult me on this? Have you tried asking me?" And then "Google is free / not my job to educate you" like... it's s very mixed message for people that do want to educate themselves and get better.
I think this is one of those things where there's no one real "right" answer, and it's super situational. Like, if someone is not positioning themself as an educator or activist (just out there living their life online), then yeah they really have no obligation to spend time walking strangers through a topic that might be very sensitive to them or answer questions that seem weirdly intrusive/personal. But when I see "just google it" from people who ARE framing themself as educators or online activists yet seem like they're happy to soak up the shares and likes, but not to answer follow-up questions at all (especially if it's on a topic that impacts said would-be educator less directly/painfully), then I'll be honest I'm gonna side-eye that a bit. Sometimes platforms come with responsibilities. Edit: Just want to make this clear, I was intending for the emphasis of my comment to be on the first part not on the last sentence. Most people online aren't putting themselves out there as educators or full-time activists and organizers, even if they do make the occasional information post or engage in activism. Especially if it's an intrusive question or a painful topic or there's just more questions than they can handle, I think they're justified in just muting the thread and moving on like 9 times out of 10. And honestly that 1 can just be a link to a resource rather than an in-depth convo or argument. And even if you do try to engage in public education or activism more seriously, you're still not obligated to answer every question you come across (again, especially intrusive questions, painful topics or if you're "off the clock". Like, I've seen people demanding simple answers to complex questions on casual selfies). What I was trying to get at with the last part (side-eyeing people happy to accept positive attention for being on the right side of something that affects them less personally, but less willing to do the work) was not at all saying that just because someone is involved in activism they are supposed to be willing to talk to everyone one-on-one. That would be just incredibly unreasonable to ask of anyone.
I think it's important for those non-educator/activist types who get questions to at least be more constructive about it. "I'm not the person to teach you, I'm sorry, but please, look for some resources from people who have the inclinnation." or "talking about this issue puts me in a bad place. Please ask somebody else about it." Being transparent about that kind of stuff goes a long way.
i understand what you're saying, and definitely agree with the fact that it's very nuanced. my instagram has always been a personal account, but my life has always been impacted by things like racism, so, unsurprisingly, some of my content is too. i didn't consider myself an activist purely for existing - this was only once i started doing direct action. before this, i felt obligated to pour my heart into trying to get people to understand the hardships i and so many others face, even though it almost always ended up unproductive and taking a massive toll on my mental health. once i started doing more on-the-ground work, i began to see that activists do many things and one person can't do them all. unfortunately, in my personal experience in this marginalised identity (rowan's experience and therefore opinions will be different to mine), the amount of time that the questions/comments i receive are dismissive or defensive are *overwhelming*, regardless of the intention. these types of conversations are where the answer is more likely to be "google it", because past experiences can give you a hint on how this interaction will go for you/your mental health/actually getting them to understand the cause. sometimes, mentioning google can give you an idea of the type of attitude you're dealing with and whether or not you want to engage any further. i'm getting better at asserting boundaries of deciding which questions i answer, depending on a number of factors including simply how i'm feeling that day; on a lot of days, it's genuinely exhausting to just exist in our unfair society. this despair can be triggered just by seeing a post re-shared about something awful that has happened that day, because all inequalities are interlinked to serve the same purpose of upholding the lives of the privileged, and with that comes a level of shared trauma. i consider myself a full-time activist, but i'm also just one person who only has so much time and capacity to educate the people who benefit from my oppression for free, not to mention the pre-existing power-imbalance of marginalised people existing to serve the privileged. if someone tries to start a debate/argument in my DMs about something i've re-shared (usually from large activist accounts with multiple admins), i direct them to ask the questions in the comments of that post because as well as that, a lot of the time it's dealing with something where it isn't even my place to speak on myself because it isn't my lived experience - if it is my place, i can respond there in a public setting, or the floor is open to people who are more educated on it than me! posting something online doesn't necessarily mean you're open to discussion/criticism/questions etc, but i'm definitely going to share this on my story and actively ask my little platform for their thoughts :) (hope i made sense lol, as you can probably tell this topic is a heavy mess for me!)
persoally i say that when ive explained stuff to the best of my abbilities and the other person doesnt understand or is not trying to understand i just get tired and say that instead it rly isnt my job too educate ppl that far anyways if tjeh wont listen, u can just tell when they are just there too argue rather than learn
@Sierra J Yes, identity politics is very naive and infantile that way (at best or consciously conformist and authoritarian at worst). It's in its very nature.
I also find that allies sometimes do more harm than good by being overzealous. Yelling at people who ars confused, overpowering the actual marginalised people who might be willing to have the discussion. It's especially very young allies, because they may lack experience and often have very black and white thinking (which I definitely also had their age). But the most amusing ti me is when a content creator appologises for something insensitive and 80% of the replies are "if you're not x minority, don't speak", coming from people who are not x minority. Allies have a great position to educate people, but they (we) gotta get off of our high horse first.
Yes^. The older I get, the more grey I see in the world, the more nuance, and the more I both try to cut people slack but am simultaneously disappointed by humans. Younger people: you gotta cut old people some slack for not knowing the most current terminology. For asking questions you think are dumb. They're old! There isn't an easy answer for any of this. We are all just going to have to do our best, help others as we're able, and grant everyone a heap of grace and patience.
Yeah that's probably true. There were far more trans allies than trans people spreading the idea that you *need* to find someone attractive based on their gender regardless of their genitals. Now lots of transphobes think trans people are demanding to be dated, when actually most tend to be understanding of the fact that some people just won't find them attractive pre-op (and of course, that some will).
This is sad but true, I’d like to give it more upvotes. I would add that it’s also the culture we’re growing up and living in (in the US at least), not just age; nuance isn’t encouraged by a lot the tools and places that have become ubiquitous. Young people often lack nuance, but they are also sponges, and without careful cultivation of what they consume, they’re faced with deluges of outrage articles and hot takes on sites built to encourage doom scrolling.
If I talked like some Twitter users do to my conservative mum we wouldn't even have a relationship.... Believe it or not she is a good person despite her being a Tory supporter, shocking I know! People who lack real world experience seem to find the worst troll then can find online then take them as the standard for all people across the aisle
For me, a big part of becoming a better ally has been adopting a position of "yes, it is my job to educate you." Not by positioning myself as an expert in experiences I have not lived, but by amplifying the voices of activists and recommending credible sources for self-education.
yep 100% i think allies’ role is a big part of the conversation (or maybe another conversation altogether) bc i literally see allies using the same “google it” attitude to step out of conversations when THEY have the privilege to be able to educate/change someone’s mind!!
Exactly! I don't have time to lecture people on why things like Autism$peaks is so bad, but I can point to iilluminaughtii on CZcams and her well researched playlist, or Instagram accounts of autistic activists. I did that a lot in April, just sharing other people's posts. However in communities that large, there are always conflicting ideas and debates. It's hard to know what side to believe.
The thing is when this thing is your life (like for me) I cannot stay impartial and when I sound impartial I don’t seem truthful. I am tired of being used as someone’s sheet filler for EVERY person who have overlapping margins as me. I am tired of educating others because most people just ask not to have an answer, but to provoke me (I have had many beautiful debates with people who DID want to learn, but it’s still tiring sometimes)
One thing I've noticed on TikTok that I can't stand -- someone will ask OP a question in the comments, and someone ELSE will respond "just google it," "it's not their job to educate you," etc. If OP doesn't want to respond, they won't! Why is it your responsibility as a stranger to tell another stranger not to ask questions? Great video, btw!
I got taught at a really young age that speaking FOR someone without express permission is really rude, the UK is big on manners but I thought this was the basics everyhwere?
A language barrier between people can also be problematic at times. For example when the discussion is about gender neutral pronouns. In a lot of languages there is simply no gender neutral singular person pronouns such as they/ them. So if you tell a native Italian speaker to do their research on Google they may only find English sources or less information on Italian websites.
yeah we don't even have gender neutrality for objects numbers get pronouns chairs are male I guess I really struggled with it at first I love it now but it was difficult to see people make something mandatory and so wrong to get wrong when for me it isn't even an option I love non binary characters I'd want to use neutral pronouns for myself it's generally a really good thing to not put people in two categories and it's not even always easy to gender cis people correctly but I'm forced to pick or randomize while I like but the aggression around it at first was scary I didn't even understand what was happening because it was new to me to have that option
The narrative about gender-neutral terms in Spanish is also dominated by USA-centric perspective, by people who are considered "Hispanic" in the USA, but almost always speak English. Hence the terms like "Latinx", which, in my experience, almost all people from Spanish-speaking countries universally hate, because it is so against the actual rules of Spanish language. Tell me if I am wrong, but that is the impression I got
@@KateeAngel Americentricism is sadly not uncommon among American LGTBQ+ & Allies in my Experience. Basically trying to force American LGBTQ+ Cultural Norms & even Language onto other Cultures, "Latinx" is a great Example, it's a sort of Cultural "Imperialism" (for a lack of a better word). As a German where there are also no gender-neutral pronouns but everything in the language is either male, female or "it" as in an "object" i've also seen it more and more where usually American People (both from the LGBTQ+ Community as well as Allies) want to force their Culture/Discourse/Words into German Culture, change our Language & try to force what is normal in American LGBTQ+ Culture but also Americentric Discourse & Culture on Race onto other Cultures, like what/who counts as a "POC". Luckily not too common but an Example that stills happens more often than it should is American People telling Spanish, Portugese, Italian, Greek, Western/Northern Turkish etc. People they're "POC" because apparently some in the US think so, especially if they have more of a "Tan" and therefor look "Brown", making them "non-white". Americentricism, both among the American LGBTQ+ Community as well as Allies is definitely not an uncommon Problem & in my Experience they often don't even seem to realise how disrespectful that is, like the Americentric Definitions & Cultural Norms also automatically apply to any European Countries Culture & Norms. Europe has over 50 different Native Cultures and Countries, they all are different, no matter if it comes to LGBTQ+ or Race & Cultural Topics.
@@chartreux1532 i'm learning french and it has the same problem, not really any gender neutral nouns. almost every noun is either masc or fem. sometimes it makes literally no sense (like the word for mountain being a different gender then somment for some reason), then some do. us english speakers can't change that, french people definitely could but since their whole language is based on things being gendered it's hard. us americans can act like it isn't hard bc our language isn't entirely gender based. people just need to learn how to not be english-centric
I find it interesting that people seem to conflate requests (or demands) to use one pronoun with requests (or demands) to not use another. They are distinct.
LOVE THIS. As a librarian, this is a GREAT explanation of this issue. Digital literacy is ESSENTIAL to stopping that pipeline, and kindness and compassion towards people who are asking questions is the only way to make someone reconsider.
I honestly really admire librarians and am considering going into the profession! You don't have to answer this (as it isn't your job to educate me *badum tss*) but I'm curious how you personally got into the profession!
@@Lisa_Flowers I can't answer for librocrone, but I'm studying to become a librarian and I think the qualifications differ depending on what country you're in, but where I am you need to have a postgraduate degree in library science or library-and information science (or an equivalent to that) to become a librarian
Unfortunately kindness and compassion (on the internet *mostly) are cardinal sins and it's actually intellectually and morally superior to be a f*cking dunce who doesn't care about emotions or historical accuracy. I just think this generation is lost. There's some hope for teenagers but I think young adults currently are abject failures in the Human Rights department.
@@stereo-soulsoundsystem5070 I get the cynacism - the absolute rejection of earnest care among millennials especially in favor of being a ~cool guy with a hot take~ is exhausting. but i think believing a whole generation is completely unsalvageable and no one within the group is savable is a type of giving up that personally i'm not ready to do, and i hope that when you're feeling less hopeless, you won't believe it either.
This topic is really tricky, the one example that stands out to me in my experience is sex education, specifically for lesbians. As a young 19 yo virgin lesbian, a couple of years ago I had lot of questions about how it worked, how to protect myself and my potencial partners in the future. Of course when I was younger I clicked Q&A videos of lesbian youtubers trying to answer my questions, because the internet was my only safe place. But those videos weren´t really helpful because they were dodging questions of strangers who were just asking them really intimate questions, and the answers were really vague or they would just end in "google it". The problem was that googling it led to lesbian porn, but at the same time the online lesbian community was saying that "lesbian porn" was made for men. It was really confusing, I understood they didn't want to share those intimate questions, but googling those wasn't helpful either.
yeah and then you just get lesbian porn that mimicks straight PIV using strapons like the only way male film-makers/audiences are comfortable seeing lesbians is if one of them is "acting the role of a man", if there's no imagined place for a man in the scene, men tend to not like it... but porn for men is most porn in search results. :(
@@naomistarlight6178 hey I mean some of us like incorporating that into our own practices as it allows us to escape the behavioral prescriptions of our own assigned genders. As an nb person I find strap-ons empowering.
@@oscarwilde9581 that's true, I guess I don't want my comment to reflect a kink-shaming of people who do use them and enjoy them, but it's kind of sad when all the "lesbian porn" available online is not very lesbian at all, many of the performers are often bored-looking too, we need the representation of women/women couples sexually to also not be dominated strictly by (male-gaze dominated) mainstream porn.
In my school in Australia, my year level confronted the history department over their focus on white struggles when we learnt about Australia’s colonisation three years ago. We asked them to focus more on indigenous experience and black Australian history. They apologised profusely and changed the course for future years but in terms of our missed education on the matter we were told “it’s not our job to educate you, you have a duty to educate yourself.” Which I understand given the circumstance. But also when schools are telling children it’s not their job to educate them and to just google social issues… it doesn’t sit right.
Oh that’s 100% different-it literally is their job to educate you!! It makes me so mad when kids and teens have to pick up the slack for adults. But good for you and your classmates for advocating for a better education!
Oh hey, fellow Australian! At least two units focused on Indigenous Australians at my school! But we did focus a whole lot more on the American Civil Rights Movement 😅
When I was in middle school and asked questions about the LGBTQ community, my friends would tell me things like “I don’t try to get involved in your church stuff, so don’t try to get involved in my stuff.” (I’m a Christian). Because of this, I only ever asked my parents (bad idea), which only gave me one world view. I decided I wanted more info, so I went to Google. At the time, the majority of things that popped up were homophobic, and the same goes for CZcams. Because of this, I became very homophobic and transphobic for a few years, as well as more alt-right overall. The only reason I got out of it was because I was forced to confront my own sexuality, and when I decided to try to look at a new worldview, I realized how long I was. The only reason I found the other worldview was due to non-activists using their platforms to answer questions about their identities, as well as the occasional person in a comment section who would actually talk to me and give me resources to learn more (that weren’t the FOX News and alt-right people I was used to looking at). It is for this reason why anytime someone asks me a question about the LGBTQ community, I try to answer the best I can. If I don’t know the answer, I’ll try my best to find it out for them and show them how I found the answer. I’m happy someone has decided to talk about “just Google it” activism, because that is what drove me into alt-right spaces (and unintentionally drove me to hate myself for years). Obviously, as laid out in the video, it’s not fair to tell people to be a voice for the whole group; that’s a lot of pressure and can be triggering, but I think that some of us should step up and answer questions when we have the time ESPECIALLY if it’s someone we know (like a family member or friend, or even a classmate in my case). Again, that doesn’t mean that everyone should do that all the time, it just means that if you have a second, maybe try to answer a question or two you see in a comment section.
Hey. We had a similar experience, I am not religious, but I suffered years of internalized homophobia. This made people think of me as homophobic, and didn't want to discuss the issue with me. For those same reasons, I try to educate others to the best of my ability, mostly for my own sake, but also for others. Stay safe and I wish you all the best
I think this is a pretty measured take and I appreciate it. Educate when you can, you don't have to do it all the time or if you don't have energy. I think a lot of marginalized people just carry a lot of very valid anger and exhaustion from constantly having to explain their existence, and so they shut off all questions as a form of self-protection. Of course some people do it out of a sense of false outrage and superiority especially when it's a marginalisation they don't experience. It's just a hard thing. To tolerate a ton of hatred and bigotry and then to have to still be open to explaining yourself and your existence is very difficult.
That fucking sucks, turning to google and as a result becoming more of something you’re not because of misinformation, propaganda, and vitriolic hate that is available online for consumption. Lmao if someone asked me about lgbt issues I would never turn them to the internet, free roaming, because the alt right has a tendency to suck people up into a whirl wind of hate, turning people against things they don’t even understand
I just have a question: What are alt-right people according to you and what in particular did they say what could convince you so much (for at least a little while). Would be really interesting. :)
I'm similar. I'm Christian, I went to a Christian school, but I'm also part of the LGBTQ+ community. I'd heard so many weird stories and where there were only 3 openly LGB people in the school at the time, it was hard to get any sources, because talking to one gay teen and two bisexual teens who are also just figuring themselves out often ends up in everyone confused. Then again, we also didn't have sex-ed, and since Vlogbrothers partnered with Sexplanations, I got a lot of info from them on CZcams since I know Vlogbrothers support good educational channels. From there, I found more online communities and especially cosplay. People often cosplay as characters of different genders, then of course Yuri on Ice came out, and it was able to start some conversations. Plus going to a more liberal university helps me to hear more sides. A lot of my profs are immigrants which is interesting to see the diversity there.
It's a tricky one. I often don't have the mental energy to "educate" someone who probably doesn't want to learn, but also Google does... what it does (which isn't good). Book recommendations would probably be better EDIT I just want to be clear, I don't tell people to Google it. Sometimes I send an article link if I have the mental energy or try to explain a point. I never seek debates and people who want them can be exhausting
@@costanzapolastri Yeah. Find a video or content creator that addresses the topic and let them go from there. Be a guide that points them in the right direction.
@@m.f.hopkins8728 Ye, you can tell whether it's that "ignorant but is open to having their mind changed" kind of person pretty quick, but it's usually the type of guy that visits 4chan and tells me to 41% myself :D and those people can fuck off, it's a waste of mental energy to engage with them and send them contra playlists or whatever
I've been in this strange position before where it seemed like someone had read so often that "Google is free"/"not my job" that they felt uncomfortable asking questions when they were welcome to. I came out as nonbinary and an aunt DMd me like "oh cool, I love you, I'm gonna do some research on this" and I was like "I'm fully comfortable answering your questions. I'm happy to clear up any confusion" and she was kind of like "I'm a little confused but I shall be educating myself!" And I was there like. But the best answers about what this means for me are going to come from me.
I feel this so hard. I think people responding with "Google is free" underestimate the amount of anxiety even the healthiest and most stable people can build up in a short amount of time. There's better things to say if you don't have the strength to respond to someone that don't potentially harm people's ability to productively learn and grow in the future.
@@oONanniOo yeah, and there's even things you can do short of writing a full dissertation on [insert minority issue] for someone, like once someone in a server I co-run said they wanted to learn about transness, so I sent them a youtube playlist that lays out some of the basics. If someone gets these questions frequently, having some kind of resource like that on hand should probably be considered, cause once you've found a good one, pasting in a link isn't more work than saying "google is free".
aww. this is sad because i actually know a nonbinary person who refused to explain to their parents what that meant for them, and they were well-meaning parents.
@@oONanniOo I think part of that is we live in a masculine society and are afraid to express vulnerability. With good reason. So the defensive and dominant response is safer to go with.
Talking to people and learning about their experiences is a pretty fundamental part of being a human. I think telling someone to "just Google it" really does a disservice to someone who is genuinely trying to understand someone or something better
Seriously! And I think it’s totally ok to recognize sometimes the questions are genuine, sometimes they’re not. I don’t engage with my parents about this anymore cause they’re aggressive- and I had some friends who were jerks about sexism and just used questions to sea lion. But I have had LOTS of other conversations that have been genuine, curious, and kind, and if I’d just said “Google it” who knows what would’ve come out of that. Nothin good.
In my experience people tend to reduce the personal experience to "anecdotal" despite that personal story never actually being presented as an argument. I've had people ask for my trans story then act as though I used it as evidence when it was simply my trans story. I'm a LOT more defensive now because it feels like people want to take my lived experience and hurt me with it.
I live my life as a black woman and it already feels like the world has forced the Monicker of activist and teacher of racial justice onto us and we are no longer seen as humans but a machine. I simply refuse to spend the rest of my life explaining racism and white supremacy. I can and will not spend the rest of my life doing that, to the point we’re I just spend less time on the internet because sometimes I just want to be a regular person and just forget about racism for a little and then when you have to teach 50 the same lesson in the same hour it gets very upsetting, irritating and exhausting very quickly.
Have you considered writing a Google doc with an FAQ and then printing out buissness cards with a QR code to it so you don't waste your breath? /Joking
I fully thought asking questions directly was the best way to find out what marginalised groups struggle with & how to adapt, whilst also showing interest and care for someone's experiences. No idea it would actually wear people out like this. I'm definitely going to look into this more to find a better balance
I had a friend who for years would say things that were borderline homophobic, but I always felt too tired to actually educate them on the subject because I felt like I could give them too much or too little information for them. But, one day, I think I had enough of the "but you don't look gay" comments and I sent them a literal 2-hour playlist of CZcams videos that helped me out when I was starting out. They came out as Asexual last week and apologized for their comments. Edit: for the people asking, I’m sure it’s in my profile as a public playlist. It also includes a video by the infamous Lilly Orchard (who I largely disagree with) but as a trans woman I did think she had some interesting things that were worth at least hearing and she has exactly 1 video in this. Some of the videos are dated and some terminology is a little old, but it can cover almost all foundations to getting started. Godspeed.
The problem with this is what you might find homophobic, me as a Gay person might not. I love my community and hate it at the same time. I find there's a vocal minority that likes to complain and then the rest of us being Like argh, they are making us look bad again. Unless we can all agree, we arnt getting anywhere.
@@NeonJ1 The queer community has never been a monolith when it comes to opinion and looking at the last few decades, I'd still say we've come pretty far :) I super understand the thought process but I also think there's a huge danger in ascribing the reason for homophobia to queer ppl instead of, you know, the homophobes. I don't think there's a "right way to be gay" that if we'd behave like that, we'd suddenly be accepted. It's totally fine to not agree with everyone when it comes to what does or doesn't count as homophobic (or on anything else for that matter) but thinking that THAT is the reason we're still often oppressed is what I think a pretty dangerous viewpoint.
I think it's important to distinguish between life as an individual and life as an activist. An individual, particularly a marginalized person, shouldn't always feel obligated to explain themself in their everyday life. Sometimes you have to put your own mental wellbeing first. But if you want to make the decision to engage as an activist (especially an ally), you can't say "google is free" and tell yourself you genuinely made a difference. That's just taking the easy way out.
So true. I had expressed confusion over the term “global south” in an conversation so I just asked for clarification. I couldn’t figure it out within that context. I got told that “I should know that already”. I thought they literally meant the Southern Hemisphere. That’s just one of many examples and social stuff is way above my head. I just don’t get some interactions and may need extra clarification. I don’t mean to be rude or condescending I just need a little more time sometimes. And clear wordings that don’t have a double meaning lol.
Personally, I have Autism and at times I'm not sure what to do. I feel like always qualifying any statement or question with having Autism is weird or seem like a cop-out but I also don't want to come across as bad faith or ignorant either.
@@mechanomics2649 I feel this. I generally avoid all online dialog because it always begins with me writing, "To be clear I am asking about [topic x] with the full understanding of [concept y] and I am making no statement about [tangent z] nor do I have any ill-intent, I am not making any moral or value statement, and I am not engaging in bad faith." Yet, somehow it frequently turns sour. I don't know if this is the nature of internet discourse or if this is the rift between divergent and typical interpretation. Further, typicals usually don't understand how fixation happens and the intensity or duration of the effects that their impulsive hostility can have on a neurodivergent person. The internet is a miniefield lol.
I'm very knowledgeable but I guess I do need a lot of reassurance because I can't stand being wrong and I often would feel like the information is more accurate if someone takes the time to talk to me if I just read it by myself then I can't know if I understood it correctly or if I picked one that was right to begin with
as a trans person most interactions online are extremely exhausting. A few years ago, being trans was seen as rare and for the most part people didn't care. But nowadays it seems like everyone has an opinion on trans people and trans rights even if they have very minimal knowledge on them. Many of the interactions i have are people arguing with me that trans people aren't real, that we're all delusional, that trans women are predators, that trans men are misguided little girls and that nb people are attention seekers. I'm generally very open to educating people and answering questions butr no one ever asks genuine questions. Instead, all i get is ingenuine questions that are meant to make me "realize I'm in the wrong" (or sealioning as i learned today )
I’m so sorry you have to endure this. I try to be an advocate for the trans community by educating people but also pointing them in the right direction of reading works written by trans people because I know I can’t give them everything there is to know about your reality. It’s also hard trying to provide information because I can agree, people never seem to be genuine about the experience. For me, I’ve always heard cisgender people ask that question that seems to grind my gears: “Are you transphobic if you don’t want to date a transgender?”
@@Thenadathor I’m not really being hyperbolic. I mean there‘s of course cis people who are allies to trans people and those who simply don‘t care but I‘m talking about my own personal experience. Obviously it depends on where you have those interactions but I‘m mostly talking about conversations I have with people in the comments section of posts about trans people. There‘s so much hate, seemingly so much more hate than support.
@@heyna1185 I understand what youre saying, and this is a recipe for resentment. first of them, then everyone, then finally yourself. you deserve love; and that requires I say the same for the next stranger you encounter.
Exactly. For myself, it doesn't matter how exhausted I get. If I can help others in the disabled community with just a little bit of factual information, I know I'm also helping myself in the long run. Ignorance only makes things so much more harder when fighting an ableist society.
@@sadiesins5442 100% I almost have a kinda faq mode for when I go out in public in case someones curious because the things people can get tricked into believing is just wild lol
I wish I could like this comment more than once, because your phrase is so true. Yes, some days I don’t have the mental energy to have conversations with strangers, but I also know I could very well be the first person with my specific disability they’ve ever met (I’m both legally blind and a person with albinism/an albino). I can’t blame people for being curious, and how I make them feel carries over to other people like me whether I like it or not. My guide dog school had a brilliant way of teaching us handlers how to navigate these curious encounters. They gave us these really beautifully designed cards and pamphlets about guide dogs, blindness, access, and where to find more information. They’re small enough that we can carry them with us as we work our dogs. That way if someone is curious but I don’t have the time or energy to interact, I can say, “I don’t have time right now to talk, but here’s where you can find more information if you’re interested.” If I don’t have a pamphlet or card, I usually tell them to look up or watch Pick of the Litter (either the movie or the tv show). People I’ve interacted with like this tend to respond really well. Because even if their questions sound rude to me I think most people just don’t have the language to be polite. Assuming good intent costs me nothing and it could mean a lot to this stranger I know nothing about.
@@KMMHealy I love that idea. It's kinda like a business card but to help spread awareness without emotionally draining those with disabilities. What a wonderful idea, and I love that your guide dog school has normalized something like that. I think it also helps me to not internalize ableism, because I feel like I have a proactive thing to do when faced in circumstances that aren't necessarily comfortable, but don't have to be 'the worst interaction ever.' I understand we all can't do this -- disability by definition is reason enough that it's difficult to communicate on top of existing. But when I have the ability, I use it, exactly because there are so many who can't.
@@KMMHealy thank you for the kind comment! I'm half blind and even though I roll my eyes when I hear certain things I try to always tell them basic answers. I should probably make my own cards to carry around as it sounds like an amazing idea.
I find that even outside activism this sort of thing can be infuriating. I've gone on forums dedicated to a topic, posted a question ON said topic, and got nothing but responses telling either me directly to "just look it up it's out there" or warning others NOT to "spoon feed" me answers because it'll make me more self reliant. I'm talking highly technical forums, ones I go to specifically because there's some nuanced question that "google" didn't actually provide an answer for. Well, it MAY have had the answer, but I didn't put in just the right series of magic words to make it spit it out (there's a surprisingly high number of search terms out there that are far too generic). This is outside anything close to political or social matters, like "I'd like to find out how to prevent a heap overflow when programming in the SCI game engine" sort of thing. Outside that, c'mon. People asking a question on a web forum, even if the question IS easy to look up, aren't being lazy. They just are hoping for a custom answer to a question tailored to their needs. That- well- that's literally conversation. No one's saying you are "obligated" to answer, you're not. But in that case, please, just don't answer at all. Just ignore the question and let more helpful people be- well- helpful. (This is ignoring of course those questions asked in bad faith, which of course is a much bigger problem in political and social topics.)
I agree with the general idea that if someone asks a question on a specialised forum then at the very least people who don't have the energy to answer it should just leave space for those who do have energy to do it, instead of chasing them away. That said, if we're talking about social and political issues, not all forums focused on a specific topic necessarily exist for the purpose of educating others, especially if it's related to a marginalised identity. I for example am nonbinary and I've been on a lot of nonbinary forums. Cis people often ask questions and most people are okay with that, but issues can arise when the forum exists more as a space for marginalized people to commune with each other than a space for education. Then it does become an issue when the forum is flooded with simple questions about being nonbinary that really are easily googleable. And even if it is a complex question, if you're a nonbinary person surrounded by transphobic or ignorant cis people irl and come online to gain some reprieve and exist amongst people like you in peace, it can be tiring and even triggering to have the same questions you get bombarded with regularly asked in that space when the space primarily exists for marginalized people to bond and share experiences. That is to say even in this situation it can get complicated and that is part of the reason why there are forums specifically for people asking questions only. But in a non-political sense, yeah it doesn't make much sense that you wouldn't answer someone's question if it's fairly complex and specific. I do know that on some reddit subs you have to at least search the subreddit tonsee if someone has asked your question before posting. That makes sense to me, because even if you are fine leaving other people to answer a simple question, seeing the same question in your subreddit feed 20 times a week can get exhausting and limit the actual breadth of conversation on the forum.
I find it odd because sometimes asking a friend who is knowledgeable about something is a way for me to participate in their interests when I don't share it (not talking LGBT+ or social justice stuff - I'm talking hobbies). Of course I can google about bird watching Friend A, but the reason I am asking /you/ is because /you/ care. I want to give you a chance to talk about the thing you care about. I don't actually care about bird watching for my own personal interest. So when I get the brush off it's extra crappy because I am only asking as a way to connect. If we return to the original topic I love discussing intersectional feminist stuff so as long as people don't see me as the arbiter of all that is true (especially as someone who is white, able-bodies and cis but not straight) then I am happy to share the basics of identities as if I am google. Stuff is so dang complicated.
As a black person, I am currently extremely tired of having to explain racism. Google doesn't explain it either. There is no place to get the correct answers immediately, and that is by the design of a white supremacist society. Also, I think it's important to take into account the violence/potential danger people can face when engaging with the dominant culture. I don't think in any way your video disagrees with or forgets to mention it, I just feel like as a person of color in a what feels to me like a very white space, a reminder never hurts.
This is very true. It can seriously corrode on your mental and physical health to try and survive a racist environment and world while also having to explain your experiences. You are daily confronting the violent rhetoric and emotional manipulation and gaslighting in-built into these ways of thinking, even if the person saying them is presumably well-intentioned. And that's not to mention how triggering it can be to discuss and relive traumatic experiences over and over again. There is no easy answer. There has to be a way to have community resources that are easily accessible and that people can and will engage with that aren't dependent on individual marginalized people burning out or biased and unregulated search engines like Google goading people down an alt-right pipeline or validating their biases.
I think this is significant because sometimes you are asked to explain or prove something that isn't a concrete fact. While you can find evidence of racism and racist structures, patterns of behavior, etc. to someone who is unwilling or at least resistant to embracing the viewpoint that X is caused by racism, the statistics that you can show them may not be enough to prove that something exists that they have never personally experienced and don't believe to have as big of an impact as you claim.
you make a really important point and this is why it's important for ppl who care about an issue but aren't directly affected by it to take some responsibility for doing this kind of basic, entry-level education. if black ppl are constantly having to exhaust themselves explaining the most basic of ideas it doesn't allow for time and energy to do more complex work or even just. yknow. rest for once. i, as a nonblack person of color, will never be exhausted and/or traumatized explaining antiblackness and/or racism in general as a black person would be, therefore the impetus of fielding these basic questions and pointing out the many many resources on antiblack racism black people have already made should be on me and other allies. the same logic goes for educating ppl on transphobia/transmisogyny, other forms of racism, antisemitism, etc. the resources are often already there, so if you are an ally and not someone personally having their basic humanity interrogated by some online interaction, you should be the one pointing out the right resources if at all possible. i hope this makes sense.
This. I am so fucking tired. Micro aggressions affect me even more now that I don't give the benefit of the doubt after living in the Midwest, having people be overtly and subtly racist in every aspect. I don't have the skin for it and I'm on the less forgiving end of things and I just entered my 30s. I will grant no time for the fuck-shit and people will not make it to a 2nd chance with me. They get one chance and if they want to fuck around like it's a joke (trolling) I'm done.
It's so true that people trying to cancel/punish people by digging up years old things online after they had already stated that they changed their opinion.... WHAT DO THEY WANT? How do you change for the better???
Remind them of a quote by some famous dude: "Let they who is without sin cast the first stone." Also, pointing out to people that attacking individuals embedded within a system of oppression isn't going to take down said system of oppression. That being said, the poetics of quoting Jesus is pretty cool too imo, especially because the shock value it produces, and doubly so because I'm atheist.
@@alram8143 Context matters. My sibling and I were homophobic when we were teens. We were both in a conservative emotionally abusive family. Any harsh sentiment we had on lgbtq we also inflicted on ourselves. Both of us being born female we were supposed to be modest sexless beings until our parents approved of some penis for us. By the end of college we had fully processed how fucked up our childhoods were and accepted lgbtq, among other things. My sibling is now a transman but still battles accepting themselves. I like to talk to lgbtq youth online who are stuck in a conservative setting and have sworn off ever having a relationship. There is a movement in Mormonism and Islam that being gay isn’t a sin just acting on it.
I hate cancle culture because it treats a kid saying t the slur the same way as someone advocating for genocide. You dont have to do much to make up for the former, there's not much you can do to make up for the latter.
@@alram8143 Mind you, this can be extremely harmful for people with certain disabiliities, since sometimes they may inadvertently post something against their position for lack of a better word, or because their disability includes cognitive deficits that make sorting through this kind of BS harder no matter the intention. And in the cases of some such cognitive deficits, people, even smart people, who just happen to have one of those deficits, might not even know what the bounds of those deficits are well enough to avoid crossing the line, any more than a blind person can avoid crossing at a red light without the help of a guide dog or similar aid. And someone with such a deficit might therefore repeat the mistake simply because they cannot mentally "see" where the mistake is and may need to systematically memorize specific pitfalls while still being at risk of falling into other ones that to us may look similar but to them - they didn't memorize it and can't see the connection because to see the connection would require they not have that deficit. If you meet a person like that, it's more important to look at their overall outlook, rather than the occasional screwup. The former is more revealing of who they are.
In the ancient times of the late aughts, there was a website called ‘Finally a Feminist 101 Blog’ which had a range of articles answering basic questions about feminism. I think we need something like that again, but with a broader focus on intersectional and leftist politics in general.
It was hard to learn about trans issues and find trans resources AS A TRANS PERSON because of "it's not my job to educate you." Google is full of misinformation, and ppl really wanted me to just go pick from the front page of Google smh
I was an egg at the time I was told to "just google it" by a trans community online, for everything related to all sorts of political and social issues. I recognize now that some of what I said came off as sealioning even though that wasn't intended, and that I was accidentally "devil's advocate"-ing for people that didn't deserve it. But to at least point me at a resource - instead of echo-chambering between each other and getting angry when I asked actual questions because I didn't have the prerequisite information to follow the conversation - would have been immensely useful and saved me so much time in discovering my gender identity.
Seriously, I’ve found most valuable information in extremely niche subreddits that I only discovered by sheer chance from someone actually volunteering information about “oh this is called X and so-and-so works on it!” then searching for that term.
@@FlameUser64Yeah. If I ever see this happening in any of the leftist circles I’m in, I try to comment with a list of sources that I find very accessible
I think the biggest part of this issue really is the language being used. "It's not my job to educate you" or "Google is free" are really passive-aggressive and automatically illicit a defensive response from the other person, at least that's been my experience. It's perfectly understandable if somebody does not want to or feels it's not their responsibility to educate somebody for whatever reason. However, I think a little change in language could go a long way. Obviously you're still going to get the sealions who really just want to get a big reaction from you and don't actually want to be educated in the first place, but to those who are genuinely curious and want to hear first-hand experiences and have a discussion to help their own understanding, I think being considerate to them will really help them comprehend *why* exactly you don't want to educate them. If I were to ask somebody something, and it was something really personal and potentially traumatic or triggering, if they were to say, "I don't really feel comfortable talking about that because it has a tendency to upset me," I would entirely understand that, probably apologize a billion times, and back off. Even if they were to just say, "I'm sorry, I don't have the time/energy/experience to properly engage in that conversation right now," I would also understand that! I think offering up alternatives or resources, while definitely taking a bit more work than just saying "nah sorry," could help as well. If I ask somebody something and they aren't feeling up to discussing it with me for whatever reason, but they also directed me towards somebody who could answer my question, or gave me resources to look into, rather than making me find them myself where I could run into misinformation, would help a lot. And if it's something that you get asked about a lot, it shouldn't be too hard to just have a couple websites bookmarked or a profile of somebody who can help that you can just queue up and send to somebody whenever asked. Sorry if any of this comes across as sounding entitled or anything; I'm also not saying that engaging with questioners should be anybody's responsibility. This is just kind of what I was thinking as I came to the end of the video here.
Absolutely, I think it's this and also people speaking over others. When someone does a video on a topic, a commenter asks a question and then another random commenter comments "it's not their job to educate you, google is free" like? 1) they do not know if the og creator was going to answer the question and 2) that is so not their place and a super rude way of saying it... I think the best way to go about if you don't want to explain is a short comment saying something along the lines of "I don't feel comfortable explaining/don't have the time to properly engage/or whatever else the reason is" and then if possible re-direct to someone else, basically saying "I can't rn but [other creator] has done some very informative posts on this.
like if I thought that it was easily found on Google I would've done that to begin with some things aren't that easy to understand either and if I'm ignorant then which website do I trust sometimes the interaction is necessary I wouldn't ask a specific person about their trauma or anything but a specific question for whoever sees it is fine most of the time I mean I figured out that I'm autistic by talking to autistic people Google would've never been helpful with that none of it is even written by any autistic people and I get a headache from the horrid phrasing it's super ableist what helped was getting a connection too hearing from someone that they feel the same was is so much better than an inaccurate list of things that are "wrong" generally with neurodiversity Google is garbage it's not really a traits list it's medicalized bullying
I understand your logic, but I disagree with a few points. Firstly, you are right - saying google is free can come across as combative. However, "it's not my job to educate you" is a statement of fact. It's not meant to act like someone is an idiot for not knowing, but it is meant to let one know that they are not owed any amount of information from the person they're asking. I would probably tag a sorry onto that phrase, since I wouldn't want to be mean about it, but it is a very effective way to set a boundary unlike saying "not right now" or "I don't know the answer to that question". Moreover, a minority does not owe anyone an explanation of their mental state/unwillingness to answer some questions; while it might be nice to have that context, it requires them to show vulnerability that they may not want to express. Also, I think it may not seem like a big deal to some, but I that's kind of indicative of a privilege that visible minorities don't have. For instance, a queer person might easily be assumed to be straight, so to avoid any unwanted questions about that identity, they could choose to not reveal that identity. A black person, on the other hand, is visibly black, and to some people that is enough of an invitation to ask questions about that identity. Through that context I don't think it fair to say "
@@katfoster845 there is nothing rude about. People don't choose to be born marginalized---they never signed on to be a professor of social justice. No one owes you anything.
when i was younger and got told to educate myself i genuinely tried to, i unfortunately almost ended up going down the alt right pipe line, got out not too deep into it thankfully
I love your point about not having to do everything! Different people have different skills and can contribute to activism in different meaningful ways.
i used to try to "educate" people all the time. and you know what? i NEVER changed anybody's mind about ANYTHING, EVER. not even the most basic of things like racism obviously is bullshit. that's why i gave up on debate. maybe i'm just awful at talking to people, but literal hundreds of discussions later and i've gotten nowhere with anybody. no matter the studies i link, no matter the kindness i show, none of it ever works. i don't know what they are looking for, but to have their mind changed certainly isn't it. lots of times, people just won't be helped.
Sometimes it just comes down to different opinions. They could probably provide a bunch of links and statistics for why they feel the way they do, and it wouldn’t change your mind either. We base our opinions on what we’ve seen and experienced personally, and it’s tough to change someone’s world view when they haven’t seen life through your eyes.
I'm usually the opposite of "just Google it", I like to try to educate people. But often, when you actually do that, people are not open to it and get even angrier. Occasionally, I'll have a really good, educational talk with someone, but that's rare. So no matter which method you choose, people that want to learn will learn and people who want to remain ignorant will do so.
Yes, it has to be a two-way conversation, with mutual respect, even if the persons view will still differ in the end. There has to be a genuine desire to broaden one life's view a little bit. Some people just pretend to want to learn about issues to have fun or express disagreement.
@@gingersal8052 If it's a two-way conversation with mutual respect, though, it also means we ourselves have to listen and to be open to learning from the other person and maybe changing our own minds. Of course, if someone asks a personal question, the answer is what it is and there's nothing the other person can add to your story since they weren't there, but if it's a general conversation, some people are too quick to put themselves on a pedestal above those they're talking to and just "preach" (and condescend). I find people who consider themselves to be "advocates" are especially close-minded and condescending to others, probably without realizing it.
This. I think we also tend to think about critical thinking and effective research as though they are innate character traits (the good ones will find reputable sources eventually) rather than a series of complicated skills that need to be taught and consistently honed in an ever changing information landscape.
I think one of our issues is the as curse of knowledge. How we sometimes assume that everyone has the same background knowledge that we do on all issues.
“Google is free” should be used by people who don’t have the mental energy to justify their existence or maybe put up a needed boundary, but if you are an ally that doesn’t have skin in the game, it COULD be really helpful if you actually engage with people asking questions (in good faith). Like we can’t abandon people who are ignorant or yes, maybe even have biases, because well we don’t know how they got that way and more importantly - these people vote.
Not everybody has good faith questions. Sometimes the people merely want to drain your energy and demoralize you. Learning to tell the difference requires wisdom. It also requires learning what sort of person you are, and what your healthy boundaries have to be.
@@Magnulus76 I find that by answering directly and persistently presuming (and maintaining) good faith is a very effective way of undermining those who happen to be engaging in bad faith.
But if this happens I often get a "don't speak for group x if you don't belong in group x" thrown at me. I can't do both. So I walk away because I don't know what to do.
@@zapazap Yeah, isn't that then letting all of the people in group x dealing with the shit instead of being an ally? I'm not being obtuse here, I'm genuinly confused. But for now I will continue with walking away.
I really appreciate your nuanced and honest thoughts about this. It's a complicated topic but, as you say, I think it comes down to each individual in each situation. Some days I just do not have the energy to explain truly basic stuff to people, other days I'm happy to answer those questions and engage in discussions. It's about respect on all sides. We need to know and respect our own needs, and respect others when they say they can't engage.
When I'm asked and I feel like I can answer or feel comfortable answering I always try to tell them first that I don't have all the answers or I'm talking from my experience and if I don't feel informed enough to answer, I send them to videos or to people with more knowledge of the subject. It's still uncomfortable when you don't feel like answering to someone because of any reason and they keep pushing or jump to wrong conclusions because of that.
Yeah, that is very true. Like, yeah I am a Lesbian. That does not mean I will tell you how me and my partner have sex ? Or, yes, I am honored you want to use my preferred pronounce, but I told you I am in the closet, so maybe don't use it in English class ? The worst thing is when I can't answer a question properly about a different label (because I am not in that label) and people get mad at me for not knowing everything, like sorry for not knowing everything about every sexuality and gender identity?
I agree with the idea that, sometimes, posting/reposting about an issue or opinion means that you have a responsibility to follow up with people who want to engage, or at least point them to other sources. Like you can't just drop something and then refuse to elaborate, particularly when others actually have good-faith questions
I absolutely agree. If you've basically 'spoken' about something and it landed in my feed/inbox/whatever, then you started that conversation with me and I think it's fair enough to have an expectation that you're then open to answer questions about it at least for a reasonable amount of time after that. It's why I rarely reblog things that have to do with LGBTQ issues myself, because even though this is something that impacts my life, I don't always have the energy to talk about it, but I also feel that if I put that into the feed of the people that follow me, then I have started the conversation and also have some obligation to own that if people want to continue it with me.
As an autistic person, I've found that 'impact over intent' almost never means what it says, because neurotypical folk are constantly picking up on meaning and subtext in every interaction, even when it isn't there. Because we are human creatures with powerful imaginations, pain caused by things we say or do necessarily includes what the other person believes we intended; I will always be judged by the assumed intent or subtext of my words and actions, and others refusing to allow me to clarify my true meaning or intent in the context of a genuine apology for harm caused has hurt me deeply, and is, quite frankly, ableist.
Yeah, I was aware of this but it’s good to hear from someone else. In practice perceived intent always trumps the actual impact! Like people thinking I’m manipulative for crying when frustrated or tired, when I can explain over and over again that my actual intention was simply to relieve stress before I shut down and not to guilt them into doing anything (the same people try to complain about my emotional distance).
This is something I've been vaguely thinking about during these recent months and you hit the nail on the head with this video essay. When my partner (who's a man) was 16 and participated in a political party's youth organisation he encountered discussions about feminism for the first time in his life and he asked some of the members basic and perhaps to them ignorant questions. Their responses were super agressive, they called him ignorant, stupid and that it was so typical of a man to not understand the basics of x y and z. And they were engaged in politics as their job! He distanced himself from everything that had to do with outspoken feminism because of that. He considers himself a feminist now, but it took a while for him to shake that negative experience he had when he was confronted with the subject. As you point out, it's not anyone's job to explain these kinds of things, but... regardless if you're on the "asking" or "answering" side, we should do what we always do, or at least always have been taught to do: be respectful to other people, and be kind. Because if you truly want people to change views about a cause, and not only feel elevated and better than others for your opinions, this is the way to go.
About the burnout thing. I understand that completely, since I identify as a nonbinary lesbian. I've had so many people ask me how that's possible or sometimes just say that I am making it up and call me a woman (being called lady, woman, etc makes me feel dysphoric for some reason). I have always educated people on it, and it gets super tiring. I would say to just Google it but as we've seen in this video, Google isn't always the best idea. I am also asexual and I've had to explain that too. It's tiring and annoying but I don't have any better option really. One time someone was telling me how there are only two genders and you can either be male or female and have to be born that sex. I went and spent a couple hours reading through gender studies and intersex studies, watching documentaries and I was so tired by the end I just ended up linking the websites with a little bit of text. It's just kind of a weird situation sometimes (for anyone wondering, I'm nonbinary and a lesbian bc lesbian means non-male attracted to non-males typically and I don't feel comfortable with other terms describing that, such as trixic or neptunic. also because I used lesbian before I realized I was nonbinary)
A suggestion that I've seen through the comments is having a playlist of videos that you know has reliable information in it that you could point to to get a person started.
What I suggest doing in your position is saving a bunch of these links in a document and making an FAQ. Then you don't have to explain anything repetitive ever again.
A few people have said something similar but if you don't want to make a playlist, you could even just find another creator who shares your identies and is more into explaining/already has posted educational content on the topic. Then you could just refer the person asking questions to their account. (something along the lines of "[this creator] explains it well!"), you don't have to do any of the (emotional) work but also it doesn't come off as rude or send people to the wrong sites
To chime in on the "intent diesnt matter impede does" idea. This can be very hard on people that aren't nerotypical. As someone who's always struggled with social cues and understanding others especailly when I was younger this attitude attributed a lot of malice to me that I didnt have and wound up with me being treated very badly even by people in my own communities. Believe me patience and kindness aren't free and I have been on the educator side many times and it is draining. But I find that people with this "impact is everything" mentality tend to treat all "problematic" inquires as the same. Not only does it turn away people that might just be curious and not think when speaking, but can itself cause real damage to someone who's neuro-atypical who not only didnt know whatever it is they asked, but is now beibg attacked. I know that isn't the intention of the person being asked but that is the result (a bit ironic). Saying things like "im sorry but I dont have the energy to answer that" or "that's not a good way to ask the question, here's a better way to phrase it" go a lot farther. Even just "I don't want to discuss this right now". Please keep in mind that not everyone processes things the same way and reacting with hostility can be just as or more harmful to that person than the emotional or mental strain to you.
yes!! exactly!! i truly believe intent does matter because there are a lot of well meaning folks who just don't know the correct phrasing for a question, and to treat them the same as someone whose intention was to hurt just doesn't seem fair, and almost seems like a fantastic way to discourage them from ever trying to inform themselves again. a lot of neurodiverse people have rejection sensitive dysphoria too, where they have much stronger reactions to rejection than neurotypical people, and to then punish them for trying to do better seems so counterintuitive
I love this essay. Thank You Rowan! As a 42y.o. gay black man who grew up in white suburbia, for my entire youth google wasn't available and so i had to educate" people on what it means to be black, gay, Haititan and Christian (to my lgbt friends who grew up lightly religious, agnostic, or atheist). I love that you mentioned all marginalized groups are NOT monoliths. When i "educate" i always use the phrase "In my experience." And always let people know that others may be different and that they shouldn't assume. This is why I DO feel like it's my "job to educate you." By doing so I'm training you on how to see and treat me.
a couple of years ago I saw a couple of tweets calling someone else I followed racist or insensetive for using a phrase that's aave. I've used that phrase before and I didn't know what aave was, so I asked. I was told google is free. So I googled it, except that I'm in Spain. The first thing that appeared was 'did you mean aove' (aove is the acronym in Spanish for extra virgin olive oil), I looked in the first four pages of google, and all I got was an investing company called aave and things related to olive oil. Luckily now, you can also find the Wikipedia page on Spanish for aave. But I think it's very important to remeber that when you tell people to Google something, they won't be getting the same results as you.
I agree with 99% of this however I would say that a lot of the discussion in this video assumes that the response "Google is free" is usually in reply to a genuine question. That has not at all been my experience, most times I have seen this response it's been replying to someone asking purposefully obtuse and/or disingenuous questions often intended to ridicule the ideas being discussed or to someone "sealioning", asking for explanation of basic things that they already know just to test the patience of the respondent.
This exactly. Like when there was a thread about someone not understanding the difference between pedophobia and pedophilia but they were still mocking this very serious topic. I explained the difference, but then someone else asked "oh really? is there a fear of humans as well?" I googled that because I didn't know myself, replied to that person with the answer, at which point they continued asking stuff like "how is the fear of old people called?", "how is the fear of teenagers called?" at which point I just told him to google "fear of..." like I did because he was not reacting to my answers or to the original topic at all. Some people just want to waste your time for their own fun, they don't want to learn. Or, in the worst case scenario, they ask questions just to mock your answer or not even read it (properly). No one has a moral responsibility to answer to a question that is probably disingenuous. You will usually not realize from the first comment if someone is genuinely wanting to learn more or not, but once you get your answer and they prove to be just a troll, "just Google it" is more of an answer than they deserve.
Adam, Sometimes what seems like a diliberately obtuse or disingenuous question and/or someone who seems to be sealioning is just coming from a very different perspective (in good faith). I usually avoid discussing sensitive topics online anymore, because too often people would accuse me of those exact things and left me feeling more confused about the topic afterward than when I started. It also left me with a strong impression of how prone to prejudging others motives so many people are. I'm saying this as someone that isn't politically or psychologically in line with this channel, but who really wants every person to get a fair and reasonable shot and tends to see all conflict as more an internal inflammation problem in the body of humanity than a battle between opposing forces of good/bad. Since I don't want this to become a argument, I'm not planning to post/respond further, but hope you can consider the possibility that people who disagree aren't necessarily being disingenuous.
Are questions (a question being a thing that could be asked by anyone) actually entities that enjoy the property of being 'genuine', or does this property properly apply instead to acts (of asking questions) or actors (asking questions)? I don't know what constitutes a 'genuine' question.
Sean Cooper said: *"Sometimes what seems like a diliberately obtuse or disingenuous question and/or someone who seems to be sealioning is just coming from a very different perspective (in good faith)."* I just wanted to repeat that. Thank you Sean.
You always have to be mindful of adults that don't watch CZcams regularly. Breadtube videos are gonna go over some people's heads. Recommending official websites, podcasts, books, and movies may be a better avenue for some. Be mindful of the audience you're teaching to.
Exactly. I've learned that some people NEED dry, factual, and statistical information. I've recommended Contrapoints but the theatrics have managed to just push people away.
The whole concept of Breadtube is dumb. It basically does the opposite of what the alt right does and instead pulls people to far left ideologies which are not good. Once you go down that rabbit hole it can get just as bad.
@@downsjmmyjones101 Contrapoints has too many theatrics for me. It seems like they are trying to con me is the feeling I get when I watch them. It's this kind of pop culture activism that pushes me away from that kind of content. I don't want fancy nonsense, I just want the facts so I can make up my own mind about things. Honestly, since discovering left wing youtube, it has actually pushed me more away from left wing ideology than I previously would had been at. I would consider myself more left of center at this point because I don't want to be grouped in with some of the elitist nonsense spouting people in this youtube space. I want a more balanced perspective of things, not a right wing or left wing perspective.
@@samuelforesta It's ok to not like the theatrics, but it's not a pop culture thing or an attempt to con you. It's just that a lot of philosophy can be dry and boring and when you combine that with topics that can be quite heavy that's a hurdle for a lot of people. If the point is to make these concepts accessible to more people, then adding in entertainment and comedy can be helpful and also makes it more fun for the content creator as a pay off for the boring and emotionally taxing research they put in. It can also help neuro divergent people who might not be good with information presented as just raw data. That being said, you might like Philosophy Tube better. She's also pretty theatric but a lot of it is visuals or she will essentially put on a mini play and have two characters go back and forth to illustrate a concept. She includes a bibliography in the description of her videos so you can just look over the sources yourself. I do want to say I think it'd be unfair to say the far left and the far right are equally dangerous. You have to go really far on either end for that to be true where as the dangers being too far right start earlier than going too far left, at least from my perspective. The issue in America is that our right and left is skewed. As far as a global look is concerned, out right is already pretty far right and our left is right and the farthest left you'll see in main stream politics is barely left by global standards. If every politician decided "You're right Bernie Sanders. We're all on board with your social and economic policies" then we still wouldn't be as far left as a lot of western Europe. Where as we just had a president who encouraged a riot at our capital building and was willing to overturn our democracy to stay in power and a large amount of republican legislatures still supporting him. That's pretty extreme. So maybe my perspective on "too far right" coming before "too far left" is just because the neutral position where Im from is closer to the too far right than it is to the too far left.
@@NightWing1800 I would seriously doubt PhilosophyTube would be any better received. I would suggest Destiny, Vaush, and/or Dylan Burns. Also, Breadtube is closer to the alt right than you think. Talk of landlords being executed or re-educated is not uncommon. Billionaires are routinely demonised. Bernie is actually farther left than lots of countries. He wanted to abolish private insurance whipe countries like France have a public option.
What I dislike most about people asking obvious questions is that they expect you to sit down and write an essay for them, and won't accept a link to a video or an article because reading/watching that would be too much effort on their side.
@@katfoster845 Right yeah, so it's okay to expect someone else to spend half an hour typing up an exlanation to you, but it's not okay for you to spend half an hour watching a video. Cool got it.
Honestly, I think simply not replying at all is better than saying "Just google it" (or similar). If people are genuinely curious they will likely do their own research anyway. Having dismissive replies, even if there's a good reason, will more likely shut down any good-natured curiosity and possibility even breed resentment and hostility.
100%, I feel like one of the main issues with the statement is that it comes off as super passive-aggressive. If the same person just said "sorry, I don't have the time to explain rn but you can find explanations on google" it would come across as much less hostile
I understand why you would refer people to google if it’s a one on one conversation, but it it’s public, why not ignore it? Responding with that someone should google it makes it less likely someone else will give something more like an answer. You don’t always have to answer, you can do it when you have time, energy and want to, but you can leave the question for someone else to. I also think it can be less discouraging to not get an answer then to get told you can do it on your own. Especially if it happens repeatedly
Exactly. If someone asks a question and you respond that they're not entitled to an answer how are people suppose to... Interact??? It's a very online attitude. Like obviously that's true but it's just kind of irrelevant and incredibly rude.
This is exactly what I think about it and what I've been sort of missing in the video and the comments so far - if you don't have the strength to engage today, don't! Step back, recover. But don't shut down an open conversation or question because you personally can't respond right now. That serves no one and does only harm.
I remember asking a question and getting the reply "stop demanding labor from marginalized people" and just being like ... I was a trans person asking a trans person for information I didn't have....
Tangentially, this also holds true for less fraught / nuanced conversations. Like when someone asks "Is this washable?" about an online product and the only response is: "I don't know, I bought it as a gift!!" Like... don't answer then? You're not being called on directly; you don't have to put up your hand.
Yeah, if we are already having a conversation, why try to stop it with this stupid remark? Asking a question in a conversation takes the same amount of effort with the bonus that I get to interact with the answer.
Personally as someone who is several flavors of queer, I could really use a group of people who are happy to explain queer theory and experiences to people who are asking. Its just that of the people who are left leaning and also take pride in educating people, a majority of them come across as self important know-it-alls who enjoy putting people down for not knowing anything and the rest are shouted down for not having the hottest take or the most recent information. And some fall into both categories. I feel like Twitter is the reason the left doesn't explain itself anymore.
Yeah I think twitter is a big part of it. If you've been exposed to a lot of sealioning, you'll naturally start to assume anyone who asks a question is probably trying to sealion. Even if you're talking to someone who is genuine and trying to help them understand, if you're doing it in public on twitter, the sealions will arrive and start overwhelming you. Over time that wears people down, and they loose the ability to be patient or trust that other people are asking genuinely.
Regarding sharing facts with somebody before the misinformation reaches them (around 15:50): it's due to the anchoring bias. Our brain can't know beforehand what the facts are and what the misinformation is. It's just trying to understand the word the best it can. The anchoring bias makes us lean toward whatever information we got first. Looking at it from this point of view, we could reinterpret it as: when given the misinformation first, the facts "fail to gain traction". Given the facts first, "the conspiracy theory fails to gain traction" (like the video cited). It's not that people don't want to believe facts, it's that it's hard to believe what you didn't hear first.
There are two things "Ppl should listen and communicate more with marginalised groups since they know best and are the least likely to spread missinformation" but also "Marginalised groups are rightfully tired of being bombarded with such complicated questions that make them explain their existince" it's not easy
I found the “Things not to say to [a certain type of person]” CZcams series really helpful. They gather a group of people who are tall/short/deaf/etc and then ask them some of the most common questions. The people get a chance to answer genuinely or with humor/sarcasm or explaining why it’s a hurtful question. They also can disagree with each other and show multiple points of view.
I feel like a good way to reduce the burden of answering questions is sending people links to sources you trust to explain a topic. It works well with people "just asking questions" because it weeds out the genuine from the trolls. It's not a perfect solution but definitely better than "Google is free"
Another thing is that with depression and anxiety being widely spread, a lot of people don't have the energy to stop and explain microagressions to someone who isn't prejudiced in any way
On the other hand, while I agree that googling something is easy, when you are neurodivergent, finding the energy to actually do the research and not fall into fallacious arguments is a problem
Depression and anxiety is not widespread at all. it's just that social media glorifies negativity and ultimately transforms otherwise healthy teens who just look for a purpose in society, into depressed adults. See the rise of the Doomer.
@shinsei tamago-chan Depression and anxiety aren't on the rise.... but social media is making more people depressed? Wouldn't that mean that depression IS on the rise? It being the fault of social media wouldn't mean it isn't happening.
Someone should make a site about this exact issue. Anyone who is asked a question can send a link to the site where there will be accurate information from POC, LGBT, and ND folks with studies (where appropriate) to back up the information
I’m a firm believer in always assume good intent. No one is entitled to your time and if you have neither the time nor energy to respond to someone, that’s valid and your right but if you are going to engage, assuming good intentions will always give better results imo. The worst case scenario is that you interact with a troll but even then, your arguments are out there and anyone coming across the conversation will see them. The person you’re talking to might not be reachable but if it’s in a public forum, it might reach someone else who does have good intentions but is ill informed. Great video as always!
Yes. That is so true. Even if your explanation/arguments doesn't win over the one asking in the first place, it might help in the future. Also, as you said, if you don't have the time or energy, just ignore
The part about how even if the recipient isn't engaging in good faith, someone else might learn something is so true! Sometimes when I'm not sure about something, I'll just read through debate threads and comments sections where people are making arguments and responding to questions and kind of get a sense of who is saying what, why they are saying it and what the evidence for or against seems to be. And if a particular resource keeps getting cited, I might look it up. I can quietly learn from conversations without participating directly
I had a conversation on twitter where I had a genuine question about someone's stance and after an acerbic non-answer, I had to clarify and persuade them that I was genuinely interested and keen to understand their viewpoint better. They were actually surprised that that was the case and apologised, explaining that it isn't often that people actually wanted to know and instead wanted them to explain so the person asking could then turn around with a 'gotcha' moment or some obnoxious nonsense. Made me realise how rare it is for people to just have civil discussions but then again, it is twitter.
@@richardlyda8531 Because hurting people by backing them into the corner and giving them no quarter makes the person doing it feel better about themselves. It's entirely counterproductive; some might say it's becoming the very thing you hate.
I literally had to explain to someone that pride is not in fact a month where straight people worship gay people :/ I'm choosing to take that in good faith because they were responding pretty quick up until I realized that was the angle they were coming from and corrected them, then they shut up entirely. the abundance of misinformation on the internet is a serious threat to marginalized groups. :/
I’ve never been a fan of the “Google is free” response, even if I see where it comes from. Part of the issue is you can’t always tell who asks in good faith. Some are but may not seem like it because of how they ask and connotations associated with certain questions. Likewise, talking to people you KNOW about certain topics can lead to a much more meaningful educational experience than looking at emotion-based opinion pieces or dull, scientific jargon. Lastly, privileged or not, it can take anyone time to process “earth shattering” revelations over the course of multiple interactions. It’s literally how our minds are wired. So just because someone isn’t groveling and hailing your wisdom doesn’t mean they haven’t taken in what you said. Being too quick to shun, dismiss, or insult a person will likely make them defensive and less likely to listen to anything you or the people they associate with you say. At most, it’ll get them to nod to your face but then do the opposite behind closed doors. Or make them the trigger-happy SWJ types who start harping on others without actually understanding the topics themselves in a way that further isolates potential allies. On the OTHER HAND, constantly having these conversations can be exhausting, especially when you don’t know if the other is there in good faith. And it’s also not fair to have to do. I think that’s why having multiple allies are so important. People can take turns tapping in for these conversations so no one is burning out. Even acknowledging that you may not have energy to engage but (politely) providing resources for those sincerely interested can help. But sitting on a high horse by retorting to a sincere question with “Google it” doesn’t seem to do much in my experience.
This is exactly why whenever I start to research something, I try to get first-hand accounts before using a search engine. You can be terrible at explaining your questions to another person and they'd still understand what you're trying to get at; but should the same happen with a search engine, you can get a completely irrelevant answer or the answer given can be way off base.
I've already seen people sharing this as a way to shut down people saying "just google it" which feels very ironic since the conclusion of this video seems to be "it's complicated" and "people aren't good at clicking through past the title" and "it's not my job to educate you, but google is a poor alternative."
I usually save this response for when the person I’m talking to has made it clear they don’t care about data or evidence. So after I’ve already sent two or three articles and they’ve made it clear they won’t read anything that doesn’t reinforce their biases then I give up and throw out the “I don’t have time to work Google for you”
As someone who “checks all the boxes” of privilege (white, cishet, male, etc.) a belief of mine that some of my more marginalized friends have really appreciated is that it should be the job of people like me who above all have the privilege of distance to be educating people and stuff like that. There is of course the major risk that comes with that where I or some other ally could easily end up misrepresenting an issue if we’re not living it, but the major benefit is that people get to learn about these issues from someone who has the privilege of distance, and we lighten the load for people who find these same issues painfully personal from a lifetime of living them and might not want to have that talk again.
I feel like, I definitely prefer, if the person asking, first asks; "Is it okay for me to ask you about this?". Because it usually means they have good intentions, and it gives you an option to opt out of the conversation. I don't know how we could do it, but this really should be the norm for these kind of questions. Of course, it doesn't solve everything, as there can still be implied pressure to engage, but it's much better than just piling on questions and getting offended if they don't give you an answer.
This situation is literally the easiest it has ever been for anyone even remotely involved in activism (or existence as a minority). I keep a short mental list of online organizations that can explain people and issues to anyone with questions. It keeps conversations short and protects me from burnout. It also protects the curious from falling into a right-wing abyss. We've come a long way from being the only chance/conversation someone might ever have to become an ally, or to explore a repressed side of themselves. Enjoy the freedoms we now have, and fu*k Google.
"Intent doesn't matter, the impact does" sounds like what a Bond villain says before shooting their own henchman to make an example of them. It's ultimately understandable but there needs to be a better phrase.
Especially when paired with the stated issue in the video, this essentially creates a narrative running completely counter to the value of rehabilitative/restorative justice. People are punished without nuance while given no avenue of changing their behavior.
One thing that can be helpful in answering questions is to copy and save your responses somewhere, so that you can give the same answer to the same or very similar questions with little effort. Even if you copy and paste a somewhat relevant answer and edit it before sending, it can save you a lot of time. I imagine one reason people get tired of answering questions is they feel they're constantly having to repeat themselves, and this could really help with that.
I get told to "Google it," all the time, and as someone with ASD, ADHD, and depression, either it confirms my biases, or, more often, it's overwhelming information that skews one way or another. I never ask questions to fight or argue, I often ask questions to be proven wrong.
@@gregoryford2532 Most usernames are bullshit that ppl don't look at. It would be really odd to assume someone is actually an asshole just bc its in their username.
Yup. I get that last part especially, I often WANT to be proven wrong but for some reason, ppl often assume that the fact that i keep asking questions means im disagreeing or trying to fight. I have this problem irl too. Or if smthn still doesn't make sense to me, ill bring up why which can often come off as a argument or rebuttal. I'm not trying to fight, i just want to understand and i often wont get smthn at first explanation.
trolls intentionally make you spend your time googling for them and ignoring whatever you give them and telling you to google more. it's an exhaustion tactic that requires barely any energy from them while completely draining your energy. so...
its also interesting to me when (in my opinion) seems like a simple answer for example (and yes this actually happened) on twitter i saw someone use the acronym QTBIPOC and I had NO idea what that meant so I took too google. nothing. no many how many times I could phrase "what does this mean?" the only thing that would come up is either something totally unrelated or it asking me if I made a spelling mistake. and when I replied to the tweet asking what it meant all I got was "google it its not my job to educate you lol" from like 20 different people. first of all it was just an acronym second of all when I DID explain that I googled it and showed screenshots of nothing coming up everyone was like "lol that's ur own fault"...... long story short it took me 6 hours to find out what QTBIPOC means (it means queer trans black indigenous people of color) like dude was that so hard?
Here's something messed up that I found. I'm an actress and I was doing a collage for a character study. I searched images of "healthy couples" or "loving couples" on Google and all of the results, without fail, were of happy white couples. I then searched images of "dysfunctional couples" and while there were images of dysfunctional white couples, the majority were of people of color. For that, I ended up using the only image that was just a silhouette of a couple fighting cause it felt really gross to choose anything else.
I remember looking up brown eyes and the only people who weren't white had medical issues. Just... a swathe of loving photographed pale people, and the rest medical photos. They weren't seen as beautiful. Only photographed when their eye had an issue. Still creeped out by this years later.
I had a friend who was of that mindset. The thing for me was that I am a foreigner and I was never exposed to the kind of racism in America. She just kept saying that is was not her job to educate me, and started calling me out for not understanding... even though I wanted. She said that I should educate myself (which is true but isn’t the best way to learn by learning from people and not the internet which leads to rabbit holes some of which I did fall through with no guidance.) She just kept saying it wasn’t her job to educate random people in the internet... even though she wanted my opinion on those topics so she could bash me for being wrong (and I wasn’t a random person, we where literally best friends.) Turns out that was just because I am ace, a foreigner and a atheist which she never liked... so it’s kinda messed up....and she refused to let me educate her when she said some comments that where racist towards me (I’m a Native American from Latin America).
Look, I can kind of see your point, but as a Black individual the number of times I've tried to educate someone who has then turned around and shoved that in my face makes up the broad majority of the interactions I've had where someone asks for an education including an interaction where my cab driver started yelling at me when I said I wanted to disengage from the conversation and I felt like my life was at risk. Whilst there is a point to be had here, I think it's one that's primarily for the allies. As many have pointed out it's not on the marginalised group do not exist and should not exist to educate you. It's way easier for someone to say "Hey I've looked up xyz, can you please help me?" and I honestly feel that rejecting "it's not my job to educate you" is one that I usually hear from my white, neurotypical/able-bodied and/or cashew friends. Marginalised people are tired of having to explain the same basic tropes and just because information from our perspective is hard to find it stil doesn't mean that the onus is on us. Whilst I appreciate your stance it doesn't really feel like you took the time to consider just how dangerous and taxing this is for many individuals. Pretty disappointing.
This video honestly comes from a very privileged place, in that she doesn’t understand JUST because a person is a POC/Trans/Disabled etc means they are an activist. That emotional labor can bring up ptsd that I do NOT think the women in this video understand
As an autistic person, I think the best solution is to recommend and provide sources such as books, websites and articles written by the marginalized groups or at least some guidence to set them on the right path for own personal research. While she had a point on misinformation, without that assistance someone could end up saying or doing something that is harmful to said communities. In this day and age, discussions are hardly opened or encouraged and shouldn't be a factor that is ignored. If someone doesn't feel comfortable answering, that is totally fine, we don't have to know everything. In short of what I am saying, doing your own research without gudience can potentially lead to a dangerous rabbit leading to bias, misinformed or outdated information that can be harmful to minority groups. Instead, like you mentioned about 'can you help me?' we shouldn't ignore the factors of communication or discussion unless we feel comfortable and let the voices that need to be heard, talk.
@@bethanymorris5750 I’ve stated I’m okay with helping, but I’m a bit thrown off by the seeming potential comparison of being Black to being autistic? Those are not the same things at all.
@@bethanymorris5750 I feel like you, like OP, have focused on the dangers of doing your own research instead of the dangers that explaining can put you in, and that’s not cool.
I have a tab saved with resources for those kind of questions and just direct people towards that. In my personal experience the best thing to do is to have a podcast or a video, a lot of people enjoy learning that way about something new.
Loved this!! Honestly I feel like sometimes the ‘google it’ response can be an excuse not to do real activism. Sometimes it seems like people forget that activism is WORK. Educating people that already agree with you may be useful to a point, but all liberation movements definitely need to change hearts and minds. I really empathise with people who struggle to engage with people (especially if it’s your identity that you need to defend; it’s draining, and trolls are awful haha), but part of true liberation is translating your narrative to someone else’s language. The burden of education is real, but it’s necessary. I think this is where allies really make a difference imo. For example, it might be too much for a recently out trans person to explain their gender identity, but for a cis ally it’s exponentially easier to give an explanation for trans identities. As an ally that’s probably more comfortable in cis circles, it would probably also be easier to maybe understand the viewpoint of a cis person trying to understand trans existence. Nothing infuriated me more than white people posting on their stories ‘unfollow me if you don’t support BLM’ - as if it’s not our job as allies to persuade those very people to join the movement for black liberation Anyway haha, loved the video, that was just my little rant haha
I agree with you. When I tried to understand the BLM movement, people just unfollowed me or blocked me. Then I tried to participate in projects I knew wouldn't make a difference, (like not buying anything for a day or posting that black picture) and suddenly every white person I know said I was a great ally. Like ? No? I didn't do anything to help ?
Agree with this. As a nonbinary person who _is_ constantly tired by having to explain things or who can only express my identity in particular places because I know I'll be attacked or have a million exhausting questions thrown at me, it's a hard one. I want to feel like I can explain things to cis people who are ignorant or disagree with me but it's hard to know whether it bears any fruit at all, and it can be extremely draining and hard on my mental health. Part of being a marginalised person is having thick skin and having to explain yourself as a form of survival, but it's fucking exhausting and sometimes I think asking people to google things is a form of protection Also, maybe controversial, but I'm not a 'trans activist', I'm a trans person trying to live my life. It's not great for activists to just tell people to google it constantly but not all of us are activists and I don't tend to like the assumption that marginalised =activist. Activism is an actual job for some people. We all should engage in some level of activism especially for communities who experience a marginalisation we don't but I'm not a trans activist just for existing as a trans person in the world and not all marginalized people have the mental resources or even physical resources to do this kind of work. As someone with severe depression, interacting with trolls and transphobes is intensely exhausting and sometimes actually life threatening (can lead to not great thoughts and actions if you catch my drift).
@@apopofculture Yeah, but the thing is, we also have to reach the apathetic and partly engaged (which is probably most people who are mostly concerned with their own personal troubles) in order to really change things. This might be frustrating, but I think we have to accept that most people are simply not going to care to the same degree that activists do, and this is particularly true of the bulk of working class people who may be struggling with the time and energy to put into these things.
@@MRuby-qb9bd and how has that tactic worked out so far? I think a comprehensive education link list that’s widely accessible and power reviewed would take the burden off random people with marginalized identities.
tbh i only say this to people that have already shown that they actually don’t care about the issues at hand, because you take the time to explain an argument and then they say “and? what about (insert irrelevant part of topic)?” like you honestly make good points about helping people that care learn, but i don’t have that much energy for people that don’t care in the first place!
Personally, I find the way in which someone rejects answering the question to be the most important thing for me. The meme you showed at 21:08 and example interpretations from Reddit users at 24:10 are indicative to me of how discouraging it can be to ask genuine questions in good-faith only to be met with condescension. The way in which a rejection is intertwined with eye-roll emojis or infantalising emphasis often feels like they are othering me as just another bad-faith person or a fool. The most unhelpful response to a curious question is to make the person feel like an idiot for asking it. It's honestly really tough trying lern about these things I don't understand and avoid becoming too negative or dwelling in the communities that can be gateways to the alt-right. I'm honestly fine with people who don't respond at all, or those who say something to the effect of "I don't want to elaborate/have this conversation". Worst is when it's someone else (i.e. their fans) who take the initiative to respond for the person saying "it's not their job to explain it to you": because that feels less like an individual person rejecting for personal reasons, and more like acollective group deciding I shouldn't be a part of it.
It isn't a minorities responsibility to answer every question that you might come up with, especially if we don't have connection already, but ESPECIALLY if you're not paying me for the time that I'm putting in to explain things to you. The NAACP's, GLADD, and ACLU website and local chapters are wholey free and available to anyone to educate themselves on. When I'm questioned in the moment, it's usually something asinine, "why is this racist to say" "why is that homophobic". To expect that the person who has been wronged to teach you to be better is entitlement. I have never had someone come up and say, "hey i was doing some research and I have a question about this". So while "google is free" is rude, it's not meant to be nice. If you haven't done the leg work and tried to answer your question yourself, then you're being entitled.
And tbh, it's kinda tone policing as well. Like, you don't want me to say google is free, but it's okay to say something nicer that means the same thing. 🤔 And if i'm not nice then somehow it's my fault that this person decided to stay ignorant and possibly listen to alt-right rhetoric? The reality is is that this video is a very yt take.
@@Gothicgurlz12 for sure. Like, if you're my friend or family, I will for sure give you the benefit of the doubt and help you see the light, but more often then not, it's just people "sealioning", rather than coming from a place of actual learning and understanding. If you can't tell me the work you did to get to this conclusion or question, i should do extra work to get you up to speed. If you can't google "why is x a slur", then it's not my job to elaborate, for free. "You denied me a right to learn... so now all brown people are not helpful and rude." like, if that's the first conclusion you're coming to ,you weren't coming over to our side in the first place. ALSO, to the people that LOVE to be that girl and "help educate" good for you, that's not me. I'm not here to be "one of the good ones" in a racist or homophobes life.
@@Gothicgurlz12 It is 100% tone policing. The other thing is, I feel like this video is somehow making it our fault if someone stays uneducated or goes down the alt right pipeline by us choosing not to answer a question. Here's the thing: A) people who sealion are probably already in that pipeline, as are people who will give up after one person declines to answer. B) If someone really genuinely wants to know, they will figure it out, and my declining to answer will not be a barrier to them.
I feel you on this in multiple ways. I'm doing a video on the limits of empathy that engages with this topic. I also talked about the value of empathy in another video where I discuss "edgelord" themes in movies. The short version is that if we are truly looking to address certain problems, that's going to require SOME (not all) of us to do the work of engaging with a lot of shitty people to clean the shit off of them and rehabilitate them.
Some questions I don't want to explain answers to because they always by default open myself up to more intrusive questions directed at my person because all of a sudden it becomes okay to do that. 🙃(it absolutely fucking does not and the audacity of it is sickening )
It isn't a FAQ, but I got a document with lots of info about LGBT peeps (most of all trans people), it also has info about racism and stuff docs.google.com/document/d/1ido70LgXsEhxcnyXE7RVS0wYJZc6aeVTpujCUPQgTrE/edit?usp=drivesdk
I remember asking someone for a source because they mentioned a very specific statistic regarding violence against Trans people, and I could not for the life of me find it, and they told me to "Google better" like, the burden of proof is on you, and I explained that I wanted the source specifically so I could use it in arguments against bigoted people but could not find it. Now I have to believe they were lying or misremembering because I couldn't validate it.
Man, those are the worst people, from either side. They include a super precise number and they are somehow unable to find the source, and when you try searching it, you only find something that completely contradict that statistic.
I feel both called out (in a good way) and vindicated rn. You articulated really well why I get so defensive when people barage me with questions abt my identity, but also pointed out that dismissing them as I've often done isn't actually helpful to me or them. I think personally I'm gonna create a sort of list of resources that I can reference and recommend when it comes up. Thanks so much for your perspective!
Another possibility that should work with most people asking in good faith would be to say something like: "Life is complicated, and I don't have the bandwidth for a conversation of this depth right now. Thanks for seeking to better understand my situation though."
i think the best way to deal with exhaustion from a wealth of questions you don't feel like answering might be to redirect people to those who *can* answer them. like for people who are asking about LGBTQ+ issues, might point them to a list of LGBTQ+ creators i know will be willing to answer them, or who might have already made videos/posts about the issues the people are looking into. (i have, of course, conveniently forgotten all the creators i usually link)
This is something I think about a lot, and I agree that it's tough to find any "right" answers in this space. The idea of echo chambers and how to break out of them is actually the subject of a game I worked on (Wintermoor Tactics Club), and the best conclusion we could come to on the subject was "reaching out and educating those close to you is a difficult but heroic action." But of course it's not a simple topic, and I commend you for laying out a lot of the nuances surrounding it in a very clear and concise way.
Sealioning is hard concept because Autistic are accused of doing it, because they often lack the ability to read the room when asking a question. However Autistic people are extremely vulnerable to sealioning as people love to push them to having a mentdown over something that seems trivial. Sealioning definitely exists however neurotypical people definitely have a different relationship with it.
yeah I both need personal reassurance often so I'd ask questions instead of googling them and I need a lot of detail so I have follow up questions but I also love explaining things and can go on for days repeating things over and over for someone who will not learn and is rude to me so now I have a whole list of rules and I'm older so I can read people better and I'm familiar with most situations and I can set boundaries yay when I was a teen tho...I was a problem
I don't ask questions to sealion. I ask because it's a fundamental part of the Socratic method. If a theory can't hold up as logically consistent with other tangential assumptions while under any scrutiny then that theory is probably garbage, and should be thrown out accordingly.
@@treasuremage7546 that's annoying don't you have enough information already to know when something doesn't line up ? it's not like regular people will come up with a complex theory you'd need to be an expert in ten fields to pick a label for and if they are an expert quoting the recent scientific discoveries then you should Google it by yourself if it's a human rights issue ...it's not really relevant a single person can't prove or disprove oppression you just need to know basic history and you'll know who is in power and who is lacking power
@@ghostpurr9570 I know what I know, but I don't know what you know. For all I know, you know all sorts of things that aren't so. It's only through extensive inquiry tying everything to fist principles that we can parcel out what's bullshit. As for whether it's annoying, tough. The minor inconvenience of having notions challenged is peanuts compared to the terminal consequences that can come from getting things wrong. And as for basic history, knowing for example that Spain was occupied by the Moors for hundreds of years, or that Ottoman Turks kidnapped whites from all over to be made into forcefully converted and circumcized Janissary slave soldiers for even longer than that doesn't tell you much of anything about who is in power today.
I kinda disagree. Perhaps I am giving ⚪ people too much credit in thinking that they can fucking think critically for themselves. I probably am. But at this point in time.... I'm just at the point of full Karona: "either accept that I exist, or die". I am so done "educating" the same group of people over and over on the same things.
And accept your approach will get you absolutely nowhere fast. Actually, it's likely to result in people writing you off entirely as someone who is either stupid or too self important to answer a simple question.
@@katfoster845If it's so simple then they are absolutely capable of doing it themselves unless apparently its easier to keep mooching off of marginalised people 😊
I can’t speak for racial minorities, but as a gay man it always makes me furious when I see other gay people getting angry and insisting that they don’t have to explain things…like how the heck do you think we managed to get the majority of straight people on our side in the first place?! Previous generations of queer people had to work tirelessly at explaining themselves and answering stupid questions. I get that it’s annoying and exhausting (I’ve experienced it, especially in the early 2000s) but that’s part of being queer, we don’t have the luxury of everyone automatically understanding us, we can self-victimize and get angry and ultimately do nothing for the social justice causes we claim to champion, or we can work to make the world a better place for future LGBTQ+ people. Anyways, thank you for listening to my mini-rant.
Absolutely glad to have stumbled here from a random twitter comment. Appreciate you breaking it down in a way to inspire empathy in those who feel slighted by these remarks surrounding important political issues.
"always fact-check stuff you disagree with, but those you agree with, fact-check them TWICE" yes
Fully agree!
Ugh! This means I have to do THREE TIMES the fact checking of smug a-holes, and infinite more fact checking of ignorant rubes! Is there a way you do fact checking that makes it fun? I think I'm doing it wrong.
@@Ian_sothejokeworks in my opinion, I don't think fact checking should be fun. If you research about serious and complicated topics, you shouldn't try to make it fun when you're checking, idk, if a survey abt discrimination in the workplace is right or not, yknow? You're checking to found a steady base of knowledge on the subject, I wouldn't personally expect it to be "fun" , that's just my opinion tho!
Who IN THE WORLD has time for that. Do you have any idea how faster it is to lie than it is to fact-check???
@@ziglaus This was said in context of doing YOUR OWN research. If you found something you agree with, then check it twice, etc.
So i agree with this on the surface, but if you'ver already fact checked something and found supporting evidence, but then a related argument comes up, IMO you can count your previous evidence for it, if it's relevant. Evidence doesn't have to be independant.
So... my first inclination was to say "good grief, how exhausting", but then I realized, it's easy if you already have a body of evidence from previous fact checks.
Also I'll re-iterate, this is not when arguing with someone. You don't have to find twice the evidence for someone else... just do what you want to do, whether it's disengaging, giving your opinion and anecdotes, or giving instructions on how to find the evidence you found before, it's all good. It's a waste of energy to be writing peer reviewed comment responses to terfs :p
I've always hated responses like "google is free". It's pompous and annoying. Google isn't even all that accurate to recommend it as a resource for learning complex things.
I agree. The alternative of not answering is better than this, in my opinion. That leaves the space open for someone else to pick up the question without introducing annoyed energy.
You also need to carefully word the search. Different phrasing gives you wildly different results.
Your Google is free? I had to buy mine.
@names arefortheliving Believe it or not: Wikipedia.
It's not perfect. But it's better than Google, and it can give an introduction to complex topics like trans identity, systemic racism, etc.
That being said, it is always better to recommend good content creators or specific YT videos that address the topic, if you know any.
I'd honestly just recommend podcasts, books and videos if they actually care.
I think this is a good conversation to have about activism, but I find a lot of people who say "It is not my job to educate you" are referring to the fact that marginalization is NOT the same as activism. Black people do not need to answer people's questions about race simply because they're black online. Gay people don't need to answer questions about their sexuality umprompted. People are not inherently political because of their social position, and that is what I often get from the phrase.
@Cece Burton - Thank you! I just posted a long comment before I saw yours. I am not a spokesperson for Black gay women just because I happen to be a Black gay woman. It's beyond exhausting to constantly field those types of questions, especially when there are countless resources available for people to read, listen to, watch, etc. if they really want to learn about issues pertaining to race, sexuality, gender identity, etc.
yea, but usually the question is made after certain statement
if you already talking about an subject, why wouldn't people expect you to answer a question about it?
@@pedrohdalla I'm talking about the fact that black people not engaging in any online activism will still be asked questions by non black people about race/racism. As a black person I will say it absolutely does it have to be prompted by a statement regarding race, and that is not the scenario I'm referring to.
@@Kindred04 Women aren't a minority - they make up 51% of the population.
@@ARCtheCartoonMaster Neither are overweight people in the US but they are still marginalized through lack of representation and respect.
In Australia there’s a show that tries to deal with this. It’s called “you can’t ask that”, and people send in all types of (often terrible) ignorant questions about different marginalised groups. Each episode has a few members from a marginalised group who have volunteered to be on the show, instead of random people who might not feel prepared to tackle difficult questions. They read out, often react to, answer, and discuss the questions with each other and to the camera. Not only is it great for any “normie” TV viewer to become more educated about marginalised groups, it’s also a fantastic way for people from different marginalised groups to learn about each other.
this sounds like a great idea wow
Yes! We have the same show in Norway. A lot of the questions are on the edge, but it is educational.
What is that show called ?
We should have this in the US! We desperately need it.
Christians would never allow that in the US
As a gay man I often get accused of sugarcoating these issues for straight people, but education and patience IS the solution. One technique is raising awareness and the other is creating and empowering a community. Both are valid options, both are necessary
I'm super curious...where do you think the line is for you personally when it comes to breaking things down in a simple, patient, understandable way and maybe indulging straight people who feel like they are owed education with a smile from _every_ queer person they come across? I agree that there is value in educating people on things that you may think are obvious, but I think sometimes privileged groups can act like they are entitled to education that is only ever on their terms or that never makes them uncomfortable or challenges them. Some gay people will 'sugarcoat' but not every gay person a straight person comes across will, and I don't know if we should be encouraging straight people to only ever listen to the gays that 'spoon-feed' them info or who only ever engage with them in a way they want to be engaged with. It can feel like encouraging fragility to some degree.
@@Lisa_Flowers i totally agree and i'll also say that i do not have the answer. But I often see this attitude of "i don't care if you're a homophobe" when in reality getting rid of homophobia is actually very important to us. On another note, when i defend this idea of dialogue over disagreement, i expect to see it from big companies or influential brands that willingly engage in these conversations, not from individuals
Why not, unless you are dure someone wants to know really everything , overseeable basics , with humor, is more easy to stomache. And misconception should be educated away somehow.
I often get confused that people talk so much about kindness and empathy but when someone disagrees with them it all goes out of the wondow. No one wants to listen to someone who is yelling at them. If we agree so majorly on peace and peaceful protest, the reason peaceful protest worked for ghandi is because it went to far. Even if you don't agree you want to empathise with people who are nice. If you are already thereatened by an idea, a preson being threatning over it is only going to reinforce your idea. I am never sure why people don't take this into account.
@@lunarose9 there is a fundamental difference between disagreeing with someone and invalidating/attacking their literal human rights, personhood, or existence. I rather think people deserve to be angry if that is what this 'disagreement' entails, because then it isn't just intellectual, it affects their actual lived experience and often even life or death.
"just google it" is especially frustrating to hear in the disabled community, where everyone has a different experience. i have a deformity that corrects itself in 95% of people - googling it will tell you nothing about actually living with the condition, nevermind my specific experience with comorbidities.
There is also the danger in coming across misinformation as well. For someone that knows nothing about a given topic, it can be difficult to distill truth from noise.
Google is horrible with neurodivesity
it's more accurate as medicalized bullying than education
I don't have personal experience with anything else but autism is not even a communication disorder
everything affects communication
it's very different for every person so it's hard to say more than it is itself without a writing whole essay
it's complicated
be more specific
Absolutely. I have always tried to bring up the point that this phrase is ableist and I won't understand what I'm saying.
Yeah. If people express interest in my disability/condition, then I direct them to specific sources that I know gives accurate and nuanced information. Otherwise general searches about blindness and albinism is more likely to do more damage than not knowing anything at all.
I can learn more from the individual face to face then anything I read on Google.
The thing I end up doing most often is if someone asks me a question I will respond with "First tell me how much you already know about this subject so I know what information to give you." This is a technique I use when training new people at work, but it also works when people ask invasive questions about marginalized people. It puts the onus on them as the one asking the question to have to put energy and effort into the conversation instead of just heaping it all on the marginalized person. It can force someone to engage in some critical thinking about what information they have already absorbed on the topic and sometimes why they are even asking the question in the first place. Obviously any response should be situationally and personally determined, but this is a bit of a good middle ground place between saying "just google it" and taking all the effort upon yourself to educate someone.
Such a good strategy !
That's good I'm going to use that.
ooh i like this
That's really good. i'm going to try it.
This is really smart
Thank you!!!!! As a lefty who has been in a lot of leftist spaces in the rural midwest of America, it is really hard for me to deal with the kind of "just google it sweaty" sorts of people because I've met so many people who are legitimately empathetic and want to help with LGBT+, disability, racial, and other social issues but really don't know where to start or how to engage, and the very callous and sometimes nasty response puts them off. I totally get not having the headspace to educate someone, but a lot of people legitimately do want to understand social issues that they just have little to no exposure to. At those kinds of union meetings and leftist spaces in the midwest, I literally can't count how many rural American farmers and factory workers I've been able to pull leftwards on social issues that they just didn't have the exposure to in order to understand. People forget how our education systems often erase the plight of marginalized people, which is why it's important to spread that message far and wide.
I don't believe I've ever personally told someone to Google something themselves but I do believe that no one has an obligation to educate people if it's just random people online. Like others have said if they are people who dedicate their time to educate people I would be put off by comments like that. As someone who's had to find their own way to educate themselves be it podcasts books or CZcams perhaps I should count myself lucky that I didn't fall down the wrong rabbit hole
Oh god telling someone in rural america to use the internet is some kinda ism
@@thepinkestpigglet7529 yes leave us alone.
Some of us are extremely tired of having to educate bumpkins over and over and over.
So for those of us who aren't CHWMs... It's not our job to justify our existence as valid to the likes of CHWM.
It can be difficult as an autistic person trying to educate themselves on social issues. You see "why did no one consult me on this? Have you tried asking me?" And then "Google is free / not my job to educate you" like... it's s very mixed message for people that do want to educate themselves and get better.
I think this is one of those things where there's no one real "right" answer, and it's super situational. Like, if someone is not positioning themself as an educator or activist (just out there living their life online), then yeah they really have no obligation to spend time walking strangers through a topic that might be very sensitive to them or answer questions that seem weirdly intrusive/personal. But when I see "just google it" from people who ARE framing themself as educators or online activists yet seem like they're happy to soak up the shares and likes, but not to answer follow-up questions at all (especially if it's on a topic that impacts said would-be educator less directly/painfully), then I'll be honest I'm gonna side-eye that a bit. Sometimes platforms come with responsibilities.
Edit: Just want to make this clear, I was intending for the emphasis of my comment to be on the first part not on the last sentence. Most people online aren't putting themselves out there as educators or full-time activists and organizers, even if they do make the occasional information post or engage in activism. Especially if it's an intrusive question or a painful topic or there's just more questions than they can handle, I think they're justified in just muting the thread and moving on like 9 times out of 10. And honestly that 1 can just be a link to a resource rather than an in-depth convo or argument. And even if you do try to engage in public education or activism more seriously, you're still not obligated to answer every question you come across (again, especially intrusive questions, painful topics or if you're "off the clock". Like, I've seen people demanding simple answers to complex questions on casual selfies). What I was trying to get at with the last part (side-eyeing people happy to accept positive attention for being on the right side of something that affects them less personally, but less willing to do the work) was not at all saying that just because someone is involved in activism they are supposed to be willing to talk to everyone one-on-one. That would be just incredibly unreasonable to ask of anyone.
I think it's important for those non-educator/activist types who get questions to at least be more constructive about it. "I'm not the person to teach you, I'm sorry, but please, look for some resources from people who have the inclinnation." or "talking about this issue puts me in a bad place. Please ask somebody else about it." Being transparent about that kind of stuff goes a long way.
i understand what you're saying, and definitely agree with the fact that it's very nuanced.
my instagram has always been a personal account, but my life has always been impacted by things like racism, so, unsurprisingly, some of my content is too. i didn't consider myself an activist purely for existing - this was only once i started doing direct action. before this, i felt obligated to pour my heart into trying to get people to understand the hardships i and so many others face, even though it almost always ended up unproductive and taking a massive toll on my mental health. once i started doing more on-the-ground work, i began to see that activists do many things and one person can't do them all.
unfortunately, in my personal experience in this marginalised identity (rowan's experience and therefore opinions will be different to mine), the amount of time that the questions/comments i receive are dismissive or defensive are *overwhelming*, regardless of the intention. these types of conversations are where the answer is more likely to be "google it", because past experiences can give you a hint on how this interaction will go for you/your mental health/actually getting them to understand the cause. sometimes, mentioning google can give you an idea of the type of attitude you're dealing with and whether or not you want to engage any further. i'm getting better at asserting boundaries of deciding which questions i answer, depending on a number of factors including simply how i'm feeling that day; on a lot of days, it's genuinely exhausting to just exist in our unfair society. this despair can be triggered just by seeing a post re-shared about something awful that has happened that day, because all inequalities are interlinked to serve the same purpose of upholding the lives of the privileged, and with that comes a level of shared trauma. i consider myself a full-time activist, but i'm also just one person who only has so much time and capacity to educate the people who benefit from my oppression for free, not to mention the pre-existing power-imbalance of marginalised people existing to serve the privileged. if someone tries to start a debate/argument in my DMs about something i've re-shared (usually from large activist accounts with multiple admins), i direct them to ask the questions in the comments of that post because as well as that, a lot of the time it's dealing with something where it isn't even my place to speak on myself because it isn't my lived experience - if it is my place, i can respond there in a public setting, or the floor is open to people who are more educated on it than me! posting something online doesn't necessarily mean you're open to discussion/criticism/questions etc, but i'm definitely going to share this on my story and actively ask my little platform for their thoughts :)
(hope i made sense lol, as you can probably tell this topic is a heavy mess for me!)
persoally i say that when ive explained stuff to the best of my abbilities and the other person doesnt understand or is not trying to understand i just get tired and say that instead it rly isnt my job too educate ppl that far anyways if tjeh wont listen, u can just tell when they are just there too argue rather than learn
@Rachel Forshee thank you so much for sharing
@Sierra J
Yes, identity politics is very naive and infantile that way (at best or consciously conformist and authoritarian at worst). It's in its very nature.
I also find that allies sometimes do more harm than good by being overzealous. Yelling at people who ars confused, overpowering the actual marginalised people who might be willing to have the discussion. It's especially very young allies, because they may lack experience and often have very black and white thinking (which I definitely also had their age).
But the most amusing ti me is when a content creator appologises for something insensitive and 80% of the replies are "if you're not x minority, don't speak", coming from people who are not x minority.
Allies have a great position to educate people, but they (we) gotta get off of our high horse first.
Yes^. The older I get, the more grey I see in the world, the more nuance, and the more I both try to cut people slack but am simultaneously disappointed by humans.
Younger people: you gotta cut old people some slack for not knowing the most current terminology. For asking questions you think are dumb. They're old! There isn't an easy answer for any of this. We are all just going to have to do our best, help others as we're able, and grant everyone a heap of grace and patience.
I swear "allies" have probably moved more people to the right than to the left because of how annoying they are. Looking at you twitter
Yeah that's probably true. There were far more trans allies than trans people spreading the idea that you *need* to find someone attractive based on their gender regardless of their genitals.
Now lots of transphobes think trans people are demanding to be dated, when actually most tend to be understanding of the fact that some people just won't find them attractive pre-op (and of course, that some will).
This is sad but true, I’d like to give it more upvotes. I would add that it’s also the culture we’re growing up and living in (in the US at least), not just age; nuance isn’t encouraged by a lot the tools and places that have become ubiquitous. Young people often lack nuance, but they are also sponges, and without careful cultivation of what they consume, they’re faced with deluges of outrage articles and hot takes on sites built to encourage doom scrolling.
If I talked like some Twitter users do to my conservative mum we wouldn't even have a relationship....
Believe it or not she is a good person despite her being a Tory supporter, shocking I know!
People who lack real world experience seem to find the worst troll then can find online then take them as the standard for all people across the aisle
For me, a big part of becoming a better ally has been adopting a position of "yes, it is my job to educate you." Not by positioning myself as an expert in experiences I have not lived, but by amplifying the voices of activists and recommending credible sources for self-education.
yep 100% i think allies’ role is a big part of the conversation (or maybe another conversation altogether) bc i literally see allies using the same “google it” attitude to step out of conversations when THEY have the privilege to be able to educate/change someone’s mind!!
+
Exactly! I don't have time to lecture people on why things like Autism$peaks is so bad, but I can point to iilluminaughtii on CZcams and her well researched playlist, or Instagram accounts of autistic activists. I did that a lot in April, just sharing other people's posts. However in communities that large, there are always conflicting ideas and debates. It's hard to know what side to believe.
if a human rights issue then I just say that they're human and deserve rights
I at least know that much
The thing is when this thing is your life (like for me) I cannot stay impartial and when I sound impartial I don’t seem truthful. I am tired of being used as someone’s sheet filler for EVERY person who have overlapping margins as me. I am tired of educating others because most people just ask not to have an answer, but to provoke me (I have had many beautiful debates with people who DID want to learn, but it’s still tiring sometimes)
One thing I've noticed on TikTok that I can't stand -- someone will ask OP a question in the comments, and someone ELSE will respond "just google it," "it's not their job to educate you," etc. If OP doesn't want to respond, they won't! Why is it your responsibility as a stranger to tell another stranger not to ask questions? Great video, btw!
Its a form of signaling you're part of a tribe that uses that phrase. There's a dopamine hit from talking down to some stranger online.
I got taught at a really young age that speaking FOR someone without express permission is really rude, the UK is big on manners but I thought this was the basics everyhwere?
@@lunarose9 The UK has different social distinctions just like every other culture does. Making assumptions just leads to more misinformation.
That's because tic tok is full of prepubescent adults
Me: _"Honey what is for dinner"_
Wife: _"Oh Idk what are you in the mood f-"_
Complete Stranger: _"JUST GOOGLE IT BRAH"_
A language barrier between people can also be problematic at times. For example when the discussion is about gender neutral pronouns. In a lot of languages there is simply no gender neutral singular person pronouns such as they/ them. So if you tell a native Italian speaker to do their research on Google they may only find English sources or less information on Italian websites.
yeah we don't even have gender neutrality for objects
numbers get pronouns
chairs are male I guess
I really struggled with it at first
I love it now but it was difficult to see people make something mandatory and so wrong to get wrong when for me it isn't even an option
I love non binary characters
I'd want to use neutral pronouns for myself
it's generally a really good thing to not put people in two categories and it's not even always easy to gender cis people correctly
but I'm forced to pick
or randomize
while I like but the aggression around it at first was scary
I didn't even understand what was happening because it was new to me to have that option
The narrative about gender-neutral terms in Spanish is also dominated by USA-centric perspective, by people who are considered "Hispanic" in the USA, but almost always speak English. Hence the terms like "Latinx", which, in my experience, almost all people from Spanish-speaking countries universally hate, because it is so against the actual rules of Spanish language. Tell me if I am wrong, but that is the impression I got
@@KateeAngel
Americentricism is sadly not uncommon among American LGTBQ+ & Allies in my Experience. Basically trying to force American LGBTQ+ Cultural Norms & even Language onto other Cultures, "Latinx" is a great Example, it's a sort of Cultural "Imperialism" (for a lack of a better word).
As a German where there are also no gender-neutral pronouns but everything in the language is either male, female or "it" as in an "object" i've also seen it more and more where usually American People (both from the LGBTQ+ Community as well as Allies) want to force their Culture/Discourse/Words into German Culture, change our Language & try to force what is normal in American LGBTQ+ Culture but also Americentric Discourse & Culture on Race onto other Cultures, like what/who counts as a "POC".
Luckily not too common but an Example that stills happens more often than it should is American People telling Spanish, Portugese, Italian, Greek, Western/Northern Turkish etc. People they're "POC" because apparently some in the US think so, especially if they have more of a "Tan" and therefor look "Brown", making them "non-white".
Americentricism, both among the American LGBTQ+ Community as well as Allies is definitely not an uncommon Problem & in my Experience they often don't even seem to realise how disrespectful that is, like the Americentric Definitions & Cultural Norms also automatically apply to any European Countries Culture & Norms. Europe has over 50 different Native Cultures and Countries, they all are different, no matter if it comes to LGBTQ+ or Race & Cultural Topics.
@@chartreux1532 i'm learning french and it has the same problem, not really any gender neutral nouns. almost every noun is either masc or fem. sometimes it makes literally no sense (like the word for mountain being a different gender then somment for some reason), then some do. us english speakers can't change that, french people definitely could but since their whole language is based on things being gendered it's hard.
us americans can act like it isn't hard bc our language isn't entirely gender based. people just need to learn how to not be english-centric
I find it interesting that people seem to conflate requests (or demands) to use one pronoun with requests (or demands) to not use another.
They are distinct.
LOVE THIS. As a librarian, this is a GREAT explanation of this issue. Digital literacy is ESSENTIAL to stopping that pipeline, and kindness and compassion towards people who are asking questions is the only way to make someone reconsider.
Rowan ellis fans single handedly making the sexy librarian stereotype true!?!?!?!?!?
I honestly really admire librarians and am considering going into the profession! You don't have to answer this (as it isn't your job to educate me *badum tss*) but I'm curious how you personally got into the profession!
@@Lisa_Flowers I can't answer for librocrone, but I'm studying to become a librarian and I think the qualifications differ depending on what country you're in, but where I am you need to have a postgraduate degree in library science or library-and information science (or an equivalent to that) to become a librarian
Unfortunately kindness and compassion (on the internet *mostly) are cardinal sins and it's actually intellectually and morally superior to be a f*cking dunce who doesn't care about emotions or historical accuracy. I just think this generation is lost. There's some hope for teenagers but I think young adults currently are abject failures in the Human Rights department.
@@stereo-soulsoundsystem5070 I get the cynacism - the absolute rejection of earnest care among millennials especially in favor of being a ~cool guy with a hot take~ is exhausting. but i think believing a whole generation is completely unsalvageable and no one within the group is savable is a type of giving up that personally i'm not ready to do, and i hope that when you're feeling less hopeless, you won't believe it either.
This topic is really tricky, the one example that stands out to me in my experience is sex education, specifically for lesbians. As a young 19 yo virgin lesbian, a couple of years ago I had lot of questions about how it worked, how to protect myself and my potencial partners in the future. Of course when I was younger I clicked Q&A videos of lesbian youtubers trying to answer my questions, because the internet was my only safe place. But those videos weren´t really helpful because they were dodging questions of strangers who were just asking them really intimate questions, and the answers were really vague or they would just end in "google it". The problem was that googling it led to lesbian porn, but at the same time the online lesbian community was saying that "lesbian porn" was made for men. It was really confusing, I understood they didn't want to share those intimate questions, but googling those wasn't helpful either.
yeah and then you just get lesbian porn that mimicks straight PIV using strapons like the only way male film-makers/audiences are comfortable seeing lesbians is if one of them is "acting the role of a man", if there's no imagined place for a man in the scene, men tend to not like it... but porn for men is most porn in search results. :(
@@naomistarlight6178 hey I mean some of us like incorporating that into our own practices as it allows us to escape the behavioral prescriptions of our own assigned genders. As an nb person I find strap-ons empowering.
@@oscarwilde9581 that's true, I guess I don't want my comment to reflect a kink-shaming of people who do use them and enjoy them, but it's kind of sad when all the "lesbian porn" available online is not very lesbian at all, many of the performers are often bored-looking too, we need the representation of women/women couples sexually to also not be dominated strictly by (male-gaze dominated) mainstream porn.
Good luck trying to keep men from invading the lesbian domain!
In my school in Australia, my year level confronted the history department over their focus on white struggles when we learnt about Australia’s colonisation three years ago. We asked them to focus more on indigenous experience and black Australian history. They apologised profusely and changed the course for future years but in terms of our missed education on the matter we were told “it’s not our job to educate you, you have a duty to educate yourself.”
Which I understand given the circumstance. But also when schools are telling children it’s not their job to educate them and to just google social issues… it doesn’t sit right.
Oh that’s 100% different-it literally is their job to educate you!! It makes me so mad when kids and teens have to pick up the slack for adults. But good for you and your classmates for advocating for a better education!
Oh hey, fellow Australian! At least two units focused on Indigenous Australians at my school! But we did focus a whole lot more on the American Civil Rights Movement 😅
Australia was colonised three years ago??! I'm gonna have to google that because it just doesn't sound right!
@@ivorydungeon909 "when we learnt about it thrwe years ago"
my school is generally pretty good with teaching First Nations’ People’s history... but not so great at confronting their own racist past
When I was in middle school and asked questions about the LGBTQ community, my friends would tell me things like “I don’t try to get involved in your church stuff, so don’t try to get involved in my stuff.” (I’m a Christian). Because of this, I only ever asked my parents (bad idea), which only gave me one world view. I decided I wanted more info, so I went to Google. At the time, the majority of things that popped up were homophobic, and the same goes for CZcams. Because of this, I became very homophobic and transphobic for a few years, as well as more alt-right overall. The only reason I got out of it was because I was forced to confront my own sexuality, and when I decided to try to look at a new worldview, I realized how long I was. The only reason I found the other worldview was due to non-activists using their platforms to answer questions about their identities, as well as the occasional person in a comment section who would actually talk to me and give me resources to learn more (that weren’t the FOX News and alt-right people I was used to looking at). It is for this reason why anytime someone asks me a question about the LGBTQ community, I try to answer the best I can. If I don’t know the answer, I’ll try my best to find it out for them and show them how I found the answer. I’m happy someone has decided to talk about “just Google it” activism, because that is what drove me into alt-right spaces (and unintentionally drove me to hate myself for years). Obviously, as laid out in the video, it’s not fair to tell people to be a voice for the whole group; that’s a lot of pressure and can be triggering, but I think that some of us should step up and answer questions when we have the time ESPECIALLY if it’s someone we know (like a family member or friend, or even a classmate in my case). Again, that doesn’t mean that everyone should do that all the time, it just means that if you have a second, maybe try to answer a question or two you see in a comment section.
Hey. We had a similar experience, I am not religious, but I suffered years of internalized homophobia. This made people think of me as homophobic, and didn't want to discuss the issue with me. For those same reasons, I try to educate others to the best of my ability, mostly for my own sake, but also for others. Stay safe and I wish you all the best
I think this is a pretty measured take and I appreciate it. Educate when you can, you don't have to do it all the time or if you don't have energy. I think a lot of marginalized people just carry a lot of very valid anger and exhaustion from constantly having to explain their existence, and so they shut off all questions as a form of self-protection. Of course some people do it out of a sense of false outrage and superiority especially when it's a marginalisation they don't experience. It's just a hard thing. To tolerate a ton of hatred and bigotry and then to have to still be open to explaining yourself and your existence is very difficult.
That fucking sucks, turning to google and as a result becoming more of something you’re not because of misinformation, propaganda, and vitriolic hate that is available online for consumption. Lmao if someone asked me about lgbt issues I would never turn them to the internet, free roaming, because the alt right has a tendency to suck people up into a whirl wind of hate, turning people against things they don’t even understand
I just have a question: What are alt-right people according to you and what in particular did they say what could convince you so much (for at least a little while). Would be really interesting. :)
I'm similar. I'm Christian, I went to a Christian school, but I'm also part of the LGBTQ+ community. I'd heard so many weird stories and where there were only 3 openly LGB people in the school at the time, it was hard to get any sources, because talking to one gay teen and two bisexual teens who are also just figuring themselves out often ends up in everyone confused. Then again, we also didn't have sex-ed, and since Vlogbrothers partnered with Sexplanations, I got a lot of info from them on CZcams since I know Vlogbrothers support good educational channels. From there, I found more online communities and especially cosplay. People often cosplay as characters of different genders, then of course Yuri on Ice came out, and it was able to start some conversations. Plus going to a more liberal university helps me to hear more sides. A lot of my profs are immigrants which is interesting to see the diversity there.
It's a tricky one. I often don't have the mental energy to "educate" someone who probably doesn't want to learn, but also Google does... what it does (which isn't good). Book recommendations would probably be better
EDIT I just want to be clear, I don't tell people to Google it. Sometimes I send an article link if I have the mental energy or try to explain a point. I never seek debates and people who want them can be exhausting
@@costanzapolastri that's a better idea
@@costanzapolastri Yeah. Find a video or content creator that addresses the topic and let them go from there. Be a guide that points them in the right direction.
"I often don't have the mental energy to "educate" someone who probably doesn't want to learn..." Agreed!
@@m.f.hopkins8728 Ye, you can tell whether it's that "ignorant but is open to having their mind changed" kind of person pretty quick, but it's usually the type of guy that visits 4chan and tells me to 41% myself :D and those people can fuck off, it's a waste of mental energy to engage with them and send them contra playlists or whatever
@@m.f.hopkins8728 same here. I don’t see how it’s my responsibility to teach someone about my everyday experience. Very exhausting
I've been in this strange position before where it seemed like someone had read so often that "Google is free"/"not my job" that they felt uncomfortable asking questions when they were welcome to.
I came out as nonbinary and an aunt DMd me like "oh cool, I love you, I'm gonna do some research on this" and I was like "I'm fully comfortable answering your questions. I'm happy to clear up any confusion" and she was kind of like "I'm a little confused but I shall be educating myself!"
And I was there like. But the best answers about what this means for me are going to come from me.
I feel this so hard. I think people responding with "Google is free" underestimate the amount of anxiety even the healthiest and most stable people can build up in a short amount of time. There's better things to say if you don't have the strength to respond to someone that don't potentially harm people's ability to productively learn and grow in the future.
@@oONanniOo yeah, and there's even things you can do short of writing a full dissertation on [insert minority issue] for someone, like once someone in a server I co-run said they wanted to learn about transness, so I sent them a youtube playlist that lays out some of the basics.
If someone gets these questions frequently, having some kind of resource like that on hand should probably be considered, cause once you've found a good one, pasting in a link isn't more work than saying "google is free".
aww. this is sad because i actually know a nonbinary person who refused to explain to their parents what that meant for them, and they were well-meaning parents.
@@oONanniOo I think part of that is we live in a masculine society and are afraid to express vulnerability. With good reason.
So the defensive and dominant response is safer to go with.
//that they felt uncomfortable asking questions when they were welcome to. //
Aiya! I had not considered this negative outcome. Well pointed out!
Talking to people and learning about their experiences is a pretty fundamental part of being a human. I think telling someone to "just Google it" really does a disservice to someone who is genuinely trying to understand someone or something better
Agreed. Asking questions can be used as a conversation starter.
Seriously! And I think it’s totally ok to recognize sometimes the questions are genuine, sometimes they’re not. I don’t engage with my parents about this anymore cause they’re aggressive- and I had some friends who were jerks about sexism and just used questions to sea lion. But I have had LOTS of other conversations that have been genuine, curious, and kind, and if I’d just said “Google it” who knows what would’ve come out of that. Nothin good.
In my experience people tend to reduce the personal experience to "anecdotal" despite that personal story never actually being presented as an argument. I've had people ask for my trans story then act as though I used it as evidence when it was simply my trans story. I'm a LOT more defensive now because it feels like people want to take my lived experience and hurt me with it.
@@johnlarken4744 that's legit
I live my life as a black woman and it already feels like the world has forced the Monicker of activist and teacher of racial justice onto us and we are no longer seen as humans but a machine. I simply refuse to spend the rest of my life explaining racism and white supremacy. I can and will not spend the rest of my life doing that, to the point we’re I just spend less time on the internet because sometimes I just want to be a regular person and just forget about racism for a little and then when you have to teach 50 the same lesson in the same hour it gets very upsetting, irritating and exhausting very quickly.
Have you considered writing a Google doc with an FAQ and then printing out buissness cards with a QR code to it so you don't waste your breath? /Joking
I fully thought asking questions directly was the best way to find out what marginalised groups struggle with & how to adapt, whilst also showing interest and care for someone's experiences. No idea it would actually wear people out like this. I'm definitely going to look into this more to find a better balance
I had a friend who for years would say things that were borderline homophobic, but I always felt too tired to actually educate them on the subject because I felt like I could give them too much or too little information for them. But, one day, I think I had enough of the "but you don't look gay" comments and I sent them a literal 2-hour playlist of CZcams videos that helped me out when I was starting out.
They came out as Asexual last week and apologized for their comments.
Edit: for the people asking, I’m sure it’s in my profile as a public playlist. It also includes a video by the infamous Lilly Orchard (who I largely disagree with) but as a trans woman I did think she had some interesting things that were worth at least hearing and she has exactly 1 video in this.
Some of the videos are dated and some terminology is a little old, but it can cover almost all foundations to getting started.
Godspeed.
Could you send it to me?
could u send it to me pls?
@@Oeternoarquiduque it’s public in my profile.
The problem with this is what you might find homophobic, me as a Gay person might not.
I love my community and hate it at the same time. I find there's a vocal minority that likes to complain and then the rest of us being Like argh, they are making us look bad again.
Unless we can all agree, we arnt getting anywhere.
@@NeonJ1 The queer community has never been a monolith when it comes to opinion and looking at the last few decades, I'd still say we've come pretty far :) I super understand the thought process but I also think there's a huge danger in ascribing the reason for homophobia to queer ppl instead of, you know, the homophobes. I don't think there's a "right way to be gay" that if we'd behave like that, we'd suddenly be accepted. It's totally fine to not agree with everyone when it comes to what does or doesn't count as homophobic (or on anything else for that matter) but thinking that THAT is the reason we're still often oppressed is what I think a pretty dangerous viewpoint.
I think it's important to distinguish between life as an individual and life as an activist. An individual, particularly a marginalized person, shouldn't always feel obligated to explain themself in their everyday life. Sometimes you have to put your own mental wellbeing first.
But if you want to make the decision to engage as an activist (especially an ally), you can't say "google is free" and tell yourself you genuinely made a difference. That's just taking the easy way out.
This exactly
I think
But when does someone become an activist in a conversation?
being rude towards confusion about things that "should already be known" is particularly ableist regarding neurodivergent people
So true. I had expressed confusion over the term “global south” in an conversation so I just asked for clarification. I couldn’t figure it out within that context. I got told that “I should know that already”. I thought they literally meant the Southern Hemisphere. That’s just one of many examples and social stuff is way above my head. I just don’t get some interactions and may need extra clarification. I don’t mean to be rude or condescending I just need a little more time sometimes. And clear wordings that don’t have a double meaning lol.
Personally, I have Autism and at times I'm not sure what to do. I feel like always qualifying any statement or question with having Autism is weird or seem like a cop-out but I also don't want to come across as bad faith or ignorant either.
@@mechanomics2649 I feel this. I generally avoid all online dialog because it always begins with me writing, "To be clear I am asking about [topic x] with the full understanding of [concept y] and I am making no statement about [tangent z] nor do I have any ill-intent, I am not making any moral or value statement, and I am not engaging in bad faith." Yet, somehow it frequently turns sour. I don't know if this is the nature of internet discourse or if this is the rift between divergent and typical interpretation. Further, typicals usually don't understand how fixation happens and the intensity or duration of the effects that their impulsive hostility can have on a neurodivergent person. The internet is a miniefield lol.
@@richardlyda8531 hostility causes long term mental problems for me
I'm very knowledgeable but I guess I do need a lot of reassurance because I can't stand being wrong
and I often would feel like the information is more accurate if someone takes the time to talk to me
if I just read it by myself then I can't know if I understood it correctly
or if I picked one that was right to begin with
as a trans person most interactions online are extremely exhausting. A few years ago, being trans was seen as rare and for the most part people didn't care. But nowadays it seems like everyone has an opinion on trans people and trans rights even if they have very minimal knowledge on them. Many of the interactions i have are people arguing with me that trans people aren't real, that we're all delusional, that trans women are predators, that trans men are misguided little girls and that nb people are attention seekers. I'm generally very open to educating people and answering questions butr no one ever asks genuine questions. Instead, all i get is ingenuine questions that are meant to make me "realize I'm in the wrong" (or sealioning as i learned today )
I’m so sorry you have to endure this. I try to be an advocate for the trans community by educating people but also pointing them in the right direction of reading works written by trans people because I know I can’t give them everything there is to know about your reality. It’s also hard trying to provide information because I can agree, people never seem to be genuine about the experience. For me, I’ve always heard cisgender people ask that question that seems to grind my gears: “Are you transphobic if you don’t want to date a transgender?”
I think being hyperbolic like you are here about such an important issue is dangerous
@@Thenadathor I’m not really being hyperbolic. I mean there‘s of course cis people who are allies to trans people and those who simply don‘t care but I‘m talking about my own personal experience. Obviously it depends on where you have those interactions but I‘m mostly talking about conversations I have with people in the comments section of posts about trans people. There‘s so much hate, seemingly so much more hate than support.
@@aniyamarie8370 thank you for being an ally, I‘m genuinely so grateful for people like you! 💙
@@heyna1185 I understand what youre saying, and this is a recipe for resentment. first of them, then everyone, then finally yourself. you deserve love; and that requires I say the same for the next stranger you encounter.
honestly i have a saying for this kinda situation as a disabled person 'not correcting ignorance only breeds more of it'.
Exactly. For myself, it doesn't matter how exhausted I get. If I can help others in the disabled community with just a little bit of factual information, I know I'm also helping myself in the long run. Ignorance only makes things so much more harder when fighting an ableist society.
@@sadiesins5442 100% I almost have a kinda faq mode for when I go out in public in case someones curious because the things people can get tricked into believing is just wild lol
I wish I could like this comment more than once, because your phrase is so true. Yes, some days I don’t have the mental energy to have conversations with strangers, but I also know I could very well be the first person with my specific disability they’ve ever met (I’m both legally blind and a person with albinism/an albino). I can’t blame people for being curious, and how I make them feel carries over to other people like me whether I like it or not.
My guide dog school had a brilliant way of teaching us handlers how to navigate these curious encounters. They gave us these really beautifully designed cards and pamphlets about guide dogs, blindness, access, and where to find more information. They’re small enough that we can carry them with us as we work our dogs. That way if someone is curious but I don’t have the time or energy to interact, I can say, “I don’t have time right now to talk, but here’s where you can find more information if you’re interested.” If I don’t have a pamphlet or card, I usually tell them to look up or watch Pick of the Litter (either the movie or the tv show).
People I’ve interacted with like this tend to respond really well. Because even if their questions sound rude to me I think most people just don’t have the language to be polite. Assuming good intent costs me nothing and it could mean a lot to this stranger I know nothing about.
@@KMMHealy I love that idea. It's kinda like a business card but to help spread awareness without emotionally draining those with disabilities. What a wonderful idea, and I love that your guide dog school has normalized something like that.
I think it also helps me to not internalize ableism, because I feel like I have a proactive thing to do when faced in circumstances that aren't necessarily comfortable, but don't have to be 'the worst interaction ever.'
I understand we all can't do this -- disability by definition is reason enough that it's difficult to communicate on top of existing. But when I have the ability, I use it, exactly because there are so many who can't.
@@KMMHealy thank you for the kind comment! I'm half blind and even though I roll my eyes when I hear certain things I try to always tell them basic answers. I should probably make my own cards to carry around as it sounds like an amazing idea.
I find that even outside activism this sort of thing can be infuriating. I've gone on forums dedicated to a topic, posted a question ON said topic, and got nothing but responses telling either me directly to "just look it up it's out there" or warning others NOT to "spoon feed" me answers because it'll make me more self reliant. I'm talking highly technical forums, ones I go to specifically because there's some nuanced question that "google" didn't actually provide an answer for. Well, it MAY have had the answer, but I didn't put in just the right series of magic words to make it spit it out (there's a surprisingly high number of search terms out there that are far too generic). This is outside anything close to political or social matters, like "I'd like to find out how to prevent a heap overflow when programming in the SCI game engine" sort of thing.
Outside that, c'mon. People asking a question on a web forum, even if the question IS easy to look up, aren't being lazy. They just are hoping for a custom answer to a question tailored to their needs. That- well- that's literally conversation. No one's saying you are "obligated" to answer, you're not. But in that case, please, just don't answer at all. Just ignore the question and let more helpful people be- well- helpful.
(This is ignoring of course those questions asked in bad faith, which of course is a much bigger problem in political and social topics.)
I agree with the general idea that if someone asks a question on a specialised forum then at the very least people who don't have the energy to answer it should just leave space for those who do have energy to do it, instead of chasing them away.
That said, if we're talking about social and political issues, not all forums focused on a specific topic necessarily exist for the purpose of educating others, especially if it's related to a marginalised identity. I for example am nonbinary and I've been on a lot of nonbinary forums. Cis people often ask questions and most people are okay with that, but issues can arise when the forum exists more as a space for marginalized people to commune with each other than a space for education. Then it does become an issue when the forum is flooded with simple questions about being nonbinary that really are easily googleable. And even if it is a complex question, if you're a nonbinary person surrounded by transphobic or ignorant cis people irl and come online to gain some reprieve and exist amongst people like you in peace, it can be tiring and even triggering to have the same questions you get bombarded with regularly asked in that space when the space primarily exists for marginalized people to bond and share experiences. That is to say even in this situation it can get complicated and that is part of the reason why there are forums specifically for people asking questions only.
But in a non-political sense, yeah it doesn't make much sense that you wouldn't answer someone's question if it's fairly complex and specific. I do know that on some reddit subs you have to at least search the subreddit tonsee if someone has asked your question before posting. That makes sense to me, because even if you are fine leaving other people to answer a simple question, seeing the same question in your subreddit feed 20 times a week can get exhausting and limit the actual breadth of conversation on the forum.
I always reply as if people are acting in good faith. It works wonders!
I find it odd because sometimes asking a friend who is knowledgeable about something is a way for me to participate in their interests when I don't share it (not talking LGBT+ or social justice stuff - I'm talking hobbies). Of course I can google about bird watching Friend A, but the reason I am asking /you/ is because /you/ care. I want to give you a chance to talk about the thing you care about. I don't actually care about bird watching for my own personal interest. So when I get the brush off it's extra crappy because I am only asking as a way to connect.
If we return to the original topic I love discussing intersectional feminist stuff so as long as people don't see me as the arbiter of all that is true (especially as someone who is white, able-bodies and cis but not straight) then I am happy to share the basics of identities as if I am google. Stuff is so dang complicated.
As a black person, I am currently extremely tired of having to explain racism. Google doesn't explain it either. There is no place to get the correct answers immediately, and that is by the design of a white supremacist society. Also, I think it's important to take into account the violence/potential danger people can face when engaging with the dominant culture. I don't think in any way your video disagrees with or forgets to mention it, I just feel like as a person of color in a what feels to me like a very white space, a reminder never hurts.
This is very true. It can seriously corrode on your mental and physical health to try and survive a racist environment and world while also having to explain your experiences. You are daily confronting the violent rhetoric and emotional manipulation and gaslighting in-built into these ways of thinking, even if the person saying them is presumably well-intentioned. And that's not to mention how triggering it can be to discuss and relive traumatic experiences over and over again. There is no easy answer. There has to be a way to have community resources that are easily accessible and that people can and will engage with that aren't dependent on individual marginalized people burning out or biased and unregulated search engines like Google goading people down an alt-right pipeline or validating their biases.
Then how do we teach people? Do conservatives just uave an inherent advantage?
I think this is significant because sometimes you are asked to explain or prove something that isn't a concrete fact. While you can find evidence of racism and racist structures, patterns of behavior, etc. to someone who is unwilling or at least resistant to embracing the viewpoint that X is caused by racism, the statistics that you can show them may not be enough to prove that something exists that they have never personally experienced and don't believe to have as big of an impact as you claim.
you make a really important point and this is why it's important for ppl who care about an issue but aren't directly affected by it to take some responsibility for doing this kind of basic, entry-level education. if black ppl are constantly having to exhaust themselves explaining the most basic of ideas it doesn't allow for time and energy to do more complex work or even just. yknow. rest for once. i, as a nonblack person of color, will never be exhausted and/or traumatized explaining antiblackness and/or racism in general as a black person would be, therefore the impetus of fielding these basic questions and pointing out the many many resources on antiblack racism black people have already made should be on me and other allies. the same logic goes for educating ppl on transphobia/transmisogyny, other forms of racism, antisemitism, etc. the resources are often already there, so if you are an ally and not someone personally having their basic humanity interrogated by some online interaction, you should be the one pointing out the right resources if at all possible. i hope this makes sense.
This.
I am so fucking tired. Micro aggressions affect me even more now that I don't give the benefit of the doubt after living in the Midwest, having people be overtly and subtly racist in every aspect.
I don't have the skin for it and I'm on the less forgiving end of things and I just entered my 30s.
I will grant no time for the fuck-shit and people will not make it to a 2nd chance with me. They get one chance and if they want to fuck around like it's a joke (trolling) I'm done.
It's so true that people trying to cancel/punish people by digging up years old things online after they had already stated that they changed their opinion.... WHAT DO THEY WANT? How do you change for the better???
👀
Remind them of a quote by some famous dude: "Let they who is without sin cast the first stone."
Also, pointing out to people that attacking individuals embedded within a system of oppression isn't going to take down said system of oppression.
That being said, the poetics of quoting Jesus is pretty cool too imo, especially because the shock value it produces, and doubly so because I'm atheist.
@@alram8143 Context matters. My sibling and I were homophobic when we were teens. We were both in a conservative emotionally abusive family. Any harsh sentiment we had on lgbtq we also inflicted on ourselves. Both of us being born female we were supposed to be modest sexless beings until our parents approved of some penis for us. By the end of college we had fully processed how fucked up our childhoods were and accepted lgbtq, among other things. My sibling is now a transman but still battles accepting themselves. I like to talk to lgbtq youth online who are stuck in a conservative setting and have sworn off ever having a relationship. There is a movement in Mormonism and Islam that being gay isn’t a sin just acting on it.
I hate cancle culture because it treats a kid saying t the slur the same way as someone advocating for genocide.
You dont have to do much to make up for the former, there's not much you can do to make up for the latter.
@@alram8143 Mind you, this can be extremely harmful for people with certain disabiliities, since sometimes they may inadvertently post something against their position for lack of a better word, or because their disability includes cognitive deficits that make sorting through this kind of BS harder no matter the intention. And in the cases of some such cognitive deficits, people, even smart people, who just happen to have one of those deficits, might not even know what the bounds of those deficits are well enough to avoid crossing the line, any more than a blind person can avoid crossing at a red light without the help of a guide dog or similar aid. And someone with such a deficit might therefore repeat the mistake simply because they cannot mentally "see" where the mistake is and may need to systematically memorize specific pitfalls while still being at risk of falling into other ones that to us may look similar but to them - they didn't memorize it and can't see the connection because to see the connection would require they not have that deficit.
If you meet a person like that, it's more important to look at their overall outlook, rather than the occasional screwup. The former is more revealing of who they are.
In the ancient times of the late aughts, there was a website called ‘Finally a Feminist 101 Blog’ which had a range of articles answering basic questions about feminism. I think we need something like that again, but with a broader focus on intersectional and leftist politics in general.
It was hard to learn about trans issues and find trans resources AS A TRANS PERSON because of "it's not my job to educate you." Google is full of misinformation, and ppl really wanted me to just go pick from the front page of Google smh
I was an egg at the time I was told to "just google it" by a trans community online, for everything related to all sorts of political and social issues. I recognize now that some of what I said came off as sealioning even though that wasn't intended, and that I was accidentally "devil's advocate"-ing for people that didn't deserve it. But to at least point me at a resource - instead of echo-chambering between each other and getting angry when I asked actual questions because I didn't have the prerequisite information to follow the conversation - would have been immensely useful and saved me so much time in discovering my gender identity.
Seriously, I’ve found most valuable information in extremely niche subreddits that I only discovered by sheer chance from someone actually volunteering information about “oh this is called X and so-and-so works on it!” then searching for that term.
@@FlameUser64Yeah. If I ever see this happening in any of the leftist circles I’m in, I try to comment with a list of sources that I find very accessible
I think the biggest part of this issue really is the language being used. "It's not my job to educate you" or "Google is free" are really passive-aggressive and automatically illicit a defensive response from the other person, at least that's been my experience. It's perfectly understandable if somebody does not want to or feels it's not their responsibility to educate somebody for whatever reason. However, I think a little change in language could go a long way. Obviously you're still going to get the sealions who really just want to get a big reaction from you and don't actually want to be educated in the first place, but to those who are genuinely curious and want to hear first-hand experiences and have a discussion to help their own understanding, I think being considerate to them will really help them comprehend *why* exactly you don't want to educate them. If I were to ask somebody something, and it was something really personal and potentially traumatic or triggering, if they were to say, "I don't really feel comfortable talking about that because it has a tendency to upset me," I would entirely understand that, probably apologize a billion times, and back off. Even if they were to just say, "I'm sorry, I don't have the time/energy/experience to properly engage in that conversation right now," I would also understand that! I think offering up alternatives or resources, while definitely taking a bit more work than just saying "nah sorry," could help as well. If I ask somebody something and they aren't feeling up to discussing it with me for whatever reason, but they also directed me towards somebody who could answer my question, or gave me resources to look into, rather than making me find them myself where I could run into misinformation, would help a lot. And if it's something that you get asked about a lot, it shouldn't be too hard to just have a couple websites bookmarked or a profile of somebody who can help that you can just queue up and send to somebody whenever asked.
Sorry if any of this comes across as sounding entitled or anything; I'm also not saying that engaging with questioners should be anybody's responsibility. This is just kind of what I was thinking as I came to the end of the video here.
Absolutely, I think it's this and also people speaking over others. When someone does a video on a topic, a commenter asks a question and then another random commenter comments "it's not their job to educate you, google is free" like? 1) they do not know if the og creator was going to answer the question and 2) that is so not their place and a super rude way of saying it...
I think the best way to go about if you don't want to explain is a short comment saying something along the lines of "I don't feel comfortable explaining/don't have the time to properly engage/or whatever else the reason is" and then if possible re-direct to someone else, basically saying "I can't rn but [other creator] has done some very informative posts on this.
like
if I thought that it was easily found on Google I would've done that to begin with
some things aren't that easy to understand either and if I'm ignorant then which website do I trust
sometimes the interaction is necessary
I wouldn't ask a specific person about their trauma or anything but a specific question for whoever sees it is fine most of the time
I mean
I figured out that I'm autistic by talking to autistic people
Google would've never been helpful with that
none of it is even written by any autistic people
and I get a headache from the horrid phrasing
it's super ableist
what helped was getting a connection too
hearing from someone that they feel the same was is so much better than an inaccurate list of things that are "wrong"
generally with neurodiversity
Google is garbage
it's not really a traits list it's medicalized bullying
I understand your logic, but I disagree with a few points. Firstly, you are right - saying google is free can come across as combative. However, "it's not my job to educate you" is a statement of fact. It's not meant to act like someone is an idiot for not knowing, but it is meant to let one know that they are not owed any amount of information from the person they're asking. I would probably tag a sorry onto that phrase, since I wouldn't want to be mean about it, but it is a very effective way to set a boundary unlike saying "not right now" or "I don't know the answer to that question". Moreover, a minority does not owe anyone an explanation of their mental state/unwillingness to answer some questions; while it might be nice to have that context, it requires them to show vulnerability that they may not want to express.
Also, I think it may not seem like a big deal to some, but I that's kind of indicative of a privilege that visible minorities don't have. For instance, a queer person might easily be assumed to be straight, so to avoid any unwanted questions about that identity, they could choose to not reveal that identity. A black person, on the other hand, is visibly black, and to some people that is enough of an invitation to ask questions about that identity.
Through that context I don't think it fair to say "
@@athenarocks7657 it's not my job to educate you still sounds rude and combative.
@@katfoster845 there is nothing rude about. People don't choose to be born marginalized---they never signed on to be a professor of social justice. No one owes you anything.
when i was younger and got told to educate myself i genuinely tried to, i unfortunately almost ended up going down the alt right pipe line, got out not too deep into it thankfully
yea :(
Same
I think im still struggling to shirk certain ways of thinking and ideas i learned in it
I love your point about not having to do everything! Different people have different skills and can contribute to activism in different meaningful ways.
Too true.
i used to try to "educate" people all the time. and you know what? i NEVER changed anybody's mind about ANYTHING, EVER. not even the most basic of things like racism obviously is bullshit. that's why i gave up on debate. maybe i'm just awful at talking to people, but literal hundreds of discussions later and i've gotten nowhere with anybody. no matter the studies i link, no matter the kindness i show, none of it ever works. i don't know what they are looking for, but to have their mind changed certainly isn't it. lots of times, people just won't be helped.
Sometimes it just comes down to different opinions. They could probably provide a bunch of links and statistics for why they feel the way they do, and it wouldn’t change your mind either. We base our opinions on what we’ve seen and experienced personally, and it’s tough to change someone’s world view when they haven’t seen life through your eyes.
I'm usually the opposite of "just Google it", I like to try to educate people. But often, when you actually do that, people are not open to it and get even angrier. Occasionally, I'll have a really good, educational talk with someone, but that's rare. So no matter which method you choose, people that want to learn will learn and people who want to remain ignorant will do so.
Yes, it has to be a two-way conversation, with mutual respect, even if the persons view will still differ in the end. There has to be a genuine desire to broaden one life's view a little bit. Some people just pretend to want to learn about issues to have fun or express disagreement.
@@gingersal8052 If it's a two-way conversation with mutual respect, though, it also means we ourselves have to listen and to be open to learning from the other person and maybe changing our own minds. Of course, if someone asks a personal question, the answer is what it is and there's nothing the other person can add to your story since they weren't there, but if it's a general conversation, some people are too quick to put themselves on a pedestal above those they're talking to and just "preach" (and condescend). I find people who consider themselves to be "advocates" are especially close-minded and condescending to others, probably without realizing it.
@@vlo4829 yes, this is what I meant. Otherwise it would not be two way.
This. I think we also tend to think about critical thinking and effective research as though they are innate character traits (the good ones will find reputable sources eventually) rather than a series of complicated skills that need to be taught and consistently honed in an ever changing information landscape.
This is such an important point
Wow, an excellent discussion and point that I've not actually thought about at all!
Always lovely to see your name pop up Jessie!
i love your channel!
My response (when tired - ie: often) is to say that "I don't have the ENERGY to discuss this... "
Same
That is _much_ better than the alternatives being discussed.
the data, research, and evidence you cited here was SO compelling. truly practicing what you’re preaching here 🤝
I think one of our issues is the as curse of knowledge. How we sometimes assume that everyone has the same background knowledge that we do on all issues.
Aggressively whispered "YES!" when i read the title
“Google is free” should be used by people who don’t have the mental energy to justify their existence or maybe put up a needed boundary, but if you are an ally that doesn’t have skin in the game, it COULD be really helpful if you actually engage with people asking questions (in good faith). Like we can’t abandon people who are ignorant or yes, maybe even have biases, because well we don’t know how they got that way and more importantly - these people vote.
Not everybody has good faith questions. Sometimes the people merely want to drain your energy and demoralize you. Learning to tell the difference requires wisdom. It also requires learning what sort of person you are, and what your healthy boundaries have to be.
@@Magnulus76 I find that by answering directly and persistently presuming (and maintaining) good faith is a very effective way of undermining those who happen to be engaging in bad faith.
But if this happens I often get a "don't speak for group x if you don't belong in group x" thrown at me. I can't do both. So I walk away because I don't know what to do.
@@snazzypazzy You do know what to do. _You walk away._
@@zapazap Yeah, isn't that then letting all of the people in group x dealing with the shit instead of being an ally?
I'm not being obtuse here, I'm genuinly confused. But for now I will continue with walking away.
I really appreciate your nuanced and honest thoughts about this. It's a complicated topic but, as you say, I think it comes down to each individual in each situation. Some days I just do not have the energy to explain truly basic stuff to people, other days I'm happy to answer those questions and engage in discussions.
It's about respect on all sides. We need to know and respect our own needs, and respect others when they say they can't engage.
When I'm asked and I feel like I can answer or feel comfortable answering I always try to tell them first that I don't have all the answers or I'm talking from my experience and if I don't feel informed enough to answer, I send them to videos or to people with more knowledge of the subject. It's still uncomfortable when you don't feel like answering to someone because of any reason and they keep pushing or jump to wrong conclusions because of that.
Yeah, that is very true. Like, yeah I am a Lesbian. That does not mean I will tell you how me and my partner have sex ?
Or, yes, I am honored you want to use my preferred pronounce, but I told you I am in the closet, so maybe don't use it in English class ?
The worst thing is when I can't answer a question properly about a different label (because I am not in that label) and people get mad at me for not knowing everything, like sorry for not knowing everything about every sexuality and gender identity?
I agree with the idea that, sometimes, posting/reposting about an issue or opinion means that you have a responsibility to follow up with people who want to engage, or at least point them to other sources. Like you can't just drop something and then refuse to elaborate, particularly when others actually have good-faith questions
Yes, this is very important and true. Not everyone means something bad by asking
I absolutely agree. If you've basically 'spoken' about something and it landed in my feed/inbox/whatever, then you started that conversation with me and I think it's fair enough to have an expectation that you're then open to answer questions about it at least for a reasonable amount of time after that. It's why I rarely reblog things that have to do with LGBTQ issues myself, because even though this is something that impacts my life, I don't always have the energy to talk about it, but I also feel that if I put that into the feed of the people that follow me, then I have started the conversation and also have some obligation to own that if people want to continue it with me.
As an autistic person, I've found that 'impact over intent' almost never means what it says, because neurotypical folk are constantly picking up on meaning and subtext in every interaction, even when it isn't there. Because we are human creatures with powerful imaginations, pain caused by things we say or do necessarily includes what the other person believes we intended; I will always be judged by the assumed intent or subtext of my words and actions, and others refusing to allow me to clarify my true meaning or intent in the context of a genuine apology for harm caused has hurt me deeply, and is, quite frankly, ableist.
Yeah, I was aware of this but it’s good to hear from someone else. In practice perceived intent always trumps the actual impact! Like people thinking I’m manipulative for crying when frustrated or tired, when I can explain over and over again that my actual intention was simply to relieve stress before I shut down and not to guilt them into doing anything (the same people try to complain about my emotional distance).
This is something I've been vaguely thinking about during these recent months and you hit the nail on the head with this video essay.
When my partner (who's a man) was 16 and participated in a political party's youth organisation he encountered discussions about feminism for the first time in his life and he asked some of the members basic and perhaps to them ignorant questions. Their responses were super agressive, they called him ignorant, stupid and that it was so typical of a man to not understand the basics of x y and z. And they were engaged in politics as their job! He distanced himself from everything that had to do with outspoken feminism because of that. He considers himself a feminist now, but it took a while for him to shake that negative experience he had when he was confronted with the subject.
As you point out, it's not anyone's job to explain these kinds of things, but... regardless if you're on the "asking" or "answering" side, we should do what we always do, or at least always have been taught to do: be respectful to other people, and be kind. Because if you truly want people to change views about a cause, and not only feel elevated and better than others for your opinions, this is the way to go.
About the burnout thing. I understand that completely, since I identify as a nonbinary lesbian. I've had so many people ask me how that's possible or sometimes just say that I am making it up and call me a woman (being called lady, woman, etc makes me feel dysphoric for some reason). I have always educated people on it, and it gets super tiring. I would say to just Google it but as we've seen in this video, Google isn't always the best idea. I am also asexual and I've had to explain that too. It's tiring and annoying but I don't have any better option really. One time someone was telling me how there are only two genders and you can either be male or female and have to be born that sex. I went and spent a couple hours reading through gender studies and intersex studies, watching documentaries and I was so tired by the end I just ended up linking the websites with a little bit of text.
It's just kind of a weird situation sometimes
(for anyone wondering, I'm nonbinary and a lesbian bc lesbian means non-male attracted to non-males typically and I don't feel comfortable with other terms describing that, such as trixic or neptunic. also because I used lesbian before I realized I was nonbinary)
A suggestion that I've seen through the comments is having a playlist of videos that you know has reliable information in it that you could point to to get a person started.
What I suggest doing in your position is saving a bunch of these links in a document and making an FAQ. Then you don't have to explain anything repetitive ever again.
I'm a he/him lesbian too :)
A few people have said something similar but if you don't want to make a playlist, you could even just find another creator who shares your identies and is more into explaining/already has posted educational content on the topic. Then you could just refer the person asking questions to their account. (something along the lines of "[this creator] explains it well!"), you don't have to do any of the (emotional) work but also it doesn't come off as rude or send people to the wrong sites
@@user-es7ui5mc1m Thanks for the advice :)
To chime in on the "intent diesnt matter impede does" idea.
This can be very hard on people that aren't nerotypical. As someone who's always struggled with social cues and understanding others especailly when I was younger this attitude attributed a lot of malice to me that I didnt have and wound up with me being treated very badly even by people in my own communities. Believe me patience and kindness aren't free and I have been on the educator side many times and it is draining. But I find that people with this "impact is everything" mentality tend to treat all "problematic" inquires as the same. Not only does it turn away people that might just be curious and not think when speaking, but can itself cause real damage to someone who's neuro-atypical who not only didnt know whatever it is they asked, but is now beibg attacked. I know that isn't the intention of the person being asked but that is the result (a bit ironic).
Saying things like "im sorry but I dont have the energy to answer that" or "that's not a good way to ask the question, here's a better way to phrase it" go a lot farther. Even just "I don't want to discuss this right now".
Please keep in mind that not everyone processes things the same way and reacting with hostility can be just as or more harmful to that person than the emotional or mental strain to you.
yes!! exactly!! i truly believe intent does matter because there are a lot of well meaning folks who just don't know the correct phrasing for a question, and to treat them the same as someone whose intention was to hurt just doesn't seem fair, and almost seems like a fantastic way to discourage them from ever trying to inform themselves again.
a lot of neurodiverse people have rejection sensitive dysphoria too, where they have much stronger reactions to rejection than neurotypical people, and to then punish them for trying to do better seems so counterintuitive
I love this essay. Thank You Rowan!
As a 42y.o. gay black man who grew up in white suburbia, for my entire youth google wasn't available and so i had to educate" people on what it means to be black, gay, Haititan and Christian (to my lgbt friends who grew up lightly religious, agnostic, or atheist). I love that you mentioned all marginalized groups are NOT monoliths. When i "educate" i always use the phrase "In my experience." And always let people know that others may be different and that they shouldn't assume.
This is why I DO feel like it's my "job to educate you." By doing so I'm training you on how to see and treat me.
a couple of years ago I saw a couple of tweets calling someone else I followed racist or insensetive for using a phrase that's aave. I've used that phrase before and I didn't know what aave was, so I asked. I was told google is free. So I googled it, except that I'm in Spain. The first thing that appeared was 'did you mean aove' (aove is the acronym in Spanish for extra virgin olive oil), I looked in the first four pages of google, and all I got was an investing company called aave and things related to olive oil. Luckily now, you can also find the Wikipedia page on Spanish for aave. But I think it's very important to remeber that when you tell people to Google something, they won't be getting the same results as you.
I agree with 99% of this however I would say that a lot of the discussion in this video assumes that the response "Google is free" is usually in reply to a genuine question. That has not at all been my experience, most times I have seen this response it's been replying to someone asking purposefully obtuse and/or disingenuous questions often intended to ridicule the ideas being discussed or to someone "sealioning", asking for explanation of basic things that they already know just to test the patience of the respondent.
This exactly. Like when there was a thread about someone not understanding the difference between pedophobia and pedophilia but they were still mocking this very serious topic. I explained the difference, but then someone else asked "oh really? is there a fear of humans as well?" I googled that because I didn't know myself, replied to that person with the answer, at which point they continued asking stuff like "how is the fear of old people called?", "how is the fear of teenagers called?" at which point I just told him to google "fear of..." like I did because he was not reacting to my answers or to the original topic at all.
Some people just want to waste your time for their own fun, they don't want to learn. Or, in the worst case scenario, they ask questions just to mock your answer or not even read it (properly). No one has a moral responsibility to answer to a question that is probably disingenuous. You will usually not realize from the first comment if someone is genuinely wanting to learn more or not, but once you get your answer and they prove to be just a troll, "just Google it" is more of an answer than they deserve.
Adam,
Sometimes what seems like a diliberately obtuse or disingenuous question and/or someone who seems to be sealioning is just coming from a very different perspective (in good faith).
I usually avoid discussing sensitive topics online anymore, because too often people would accuse me of those exact things and left me feeling more confused about the topic afterward than when I started.
It also left me with a strong impression of how prone to prejudging others motives so many people are.
I'm saying this as someone that isn't politically or psychologically in line with this channel, but who really wants every person to get a fair and reasonable shot and tends to see all conflict as more an internal inflammation problem in the body of humanity than a battle between opposing forces of good/bad.
Since I don't want this to become a argument, I'm not planning to post/respond further, but hope you can consider the possibility that people who disagree aren't necessarily being disingenuous.
Are questions (a question being a thing that could be asked by anyone) actually entities that enjoy the property of being 'genuine', or does this property properly apply instead to acts (of asking questions) or actors (asking questions)?
I don't know what constitutes a 'genuine' question.
Sean Cooper said:
*"Sometimes what seems like a diliberately obtuse or disingenuous question and/or someone who seems to be sealioning is just coming from a very different perspective (in good faith)."*
I just wanted to repeat that.
Thank you Sean.
You always have to be mindful of adults that don't watch CZcams regularly. Breadtube videos are gonna go over some people's heads. Recommending official websites, podcasts, books, and movies may be a better avenue for some. Be mindful of the audience you're teaching to.
Exactly. I've learned that some people NEED dry, factual, and statistical information. I've recommended Contrapoints but the theatrics have managed to just push people away.
The whole concept of Breadtube is dumb. It basically does the opposite of what the alt right does and instead pulls people to far left ideologies which are not good. Once you go down that rabbit hole it can get just as bad.
@@downsjmmyjones101 Contrapoints has too many theatrics for me. It seems like they are trying to con me is the feeling I get when I watch them. It's this kind of pop culture activism that pushes me away from that kind of content. I don't want fancy nonsense, I just want the facts so I can make up my own mind about things. Honestly, since discovering left wing youtube, it has actually pushed me more away from left wing ideology than I previously would had been at. I would consider myself more left of center at this point because I don't want to be grouped in with some of the elitist nonsense spouting people in this youtube space. I want a more balanced perspective of things, not a right wing or left wing perspective.
@@samuelforesta It's ok to not like the theatrics, but it's not a pop culture thing or an attempt to con you. It's just that a lot of philosophy can be dry and boring and when you combine that with topics that can be quite heavy that's a hurdle for a lot of people. If the point is to make these concepts accessible to more people, then adding in entertainment and comedy can be helpful and also makes it more fun for the content creator as a pay off for the boring and emotionally taxing research they put in. It can also help neuro divergent people who might not be good with information presented as just raw data. That being said, you might like Philosophy Tube better. She's also pretty theatric but a lot of it is visuals or she will essentially put on a mini play and have two characters go back and forth to illustrate a concept. She includes a bibliography in the description of her videos so you can just look over the sources yourself.
I do want to say I think it'd be unfair to say the far left and the far right are equally dangerous. You have to go really far on either end for that to be true where as the dangers being too far right start earlier than going too far left, at least from my perspective. The issue in America is that our right and left is skewed. As far as a global look is concerned, out right is already pretty far right and our left is right and the farthest left you'll see in main stream politics is barely left by global standards. If every politician decided "You're right Bernie Sanders. We're all on board with your social and economic policies" then we still wouldn't be as far left as a lot of western Europe. Where as we just had a president who encouraged a riot at our capital building and was willing to overturn our democracy to stay in power and a large amount of republican legislatures still supporting him. That's pretty extreme. So maybe my perspective on "too far right" coming before "too far left" is just because the neutral position where Im from is closer to the too far right than it is to the too far left.
@@NightWing1800 I would seriously doubt PhilosophyTube would be any better received. I would suggest Destiny, Vaush, and/or Dylan Burns.
Also, Breadtube is closer to the alt right than you think. Talk of landlords being executed or re-educated is not uncommon. Billionaires are routinely demonised.
Bernie is actually farther left than lots of countries. He wanted to abolish private insurance whipe countries like France have a public option.
What I dislike most about people asking obvious questions is that they expect you to sit down and write an essay for them, and won't accept a link to a video or an article because reading/watching that would be too much effort on their side.
Or they tell you it's "biased" info, regardless of where it comes from. Like, just admit you didn't actually want to learn in the first place.
@@chronicallychic Yeah exactly that
I don't accept links to videos because most are uncaptioned (autocraptions don't count), long or have someone with a really annoying voice presenting.
@@katfoster845 Right yeah, so it's okay to expect someone else to spend half an hour typing up an exlanation to you, but it's not okay for you to spend half an hour watching a video. Cool got it.
@@ryn2844 if the video is uncaptioned, I can't access it. Autocraptions aren't adequate.
Honestly, I think simply not replying at all is better than saying "Just google it" (or similar). If people are genuinely curious they will likely do their own research anyway. Having dismissive replies, even if there's a good reason, will more likely shut down any good-natured curiosity and possibility even breed resentment and hostility.
100%, I feel like one of the main issues with the statement is that it comes off as super passive-aggressive. If the same person just said "sorry, I don't have the time to explain rn but you can find explanations on google" it would come across as much less hostile
@@user-es7ui5mc1m Exactly, or just giving names of books or youtubers who discuss whatever issue they're curious about
I understand why you would refer people to google if it’s a one on one conversation, but it it’s public, why not ignore it? Responding with that someone should google it makes it less likely someone else will give something more like an answer. You don’t always have to answer, you can do it when you have time, energy and want to, but you can leave the question for someone else to.
I also think it can be less discouraging to not get an answer then to get told you can do it on your own. Especially if it happens repeatedly
Exactly. If someone asks a question and you respond that they're not entitled to an answer how are people suppose to... Interact??? It's a very online attitude. Like obviously that's true but it's just kind of irrelevant and incredibly rude.
This is exactly what I think about it and what I've been sort of missing in the video and the comments so far - if you don't have the strength to engage today, don't! Step back, recover. But don't shut down an open conversation or question because you personally can't respond right now. That serves no one and does only harm.
I remember asking a question and getting the reply "stop demanding labor from marginalized people" and just being like ... I was a trans person asking a trans person for information I didn't have....
Tangentially, this also holds true for less fraught / nuanced conversations. Like when someone asks "Is this washable?" about an online product and the only response is: "I don't know, I bought it as a gift!!" Like... don't answer then? You're not being called on directly; you don't have to put up your hand.
Yeah, if we are already having a conversation, why try to stop it with this stupid remark? Asking a question in a conversation takes the same amount of effort with the bonus that I get to interact with the answer.
Personally as someone who is several flavors of queer, I could really use a group of people who are happy to explain queer theory and experiences to people who are asking. Its just that of the people who are left leaning and also take pride in educating people, a majority of them come across as self important know-it-alls who enjoy putting people down for not knowing anything and the rest are shouted down for not having the hottest take or the most recent information. And some fall into both categories. I feel like Twitter is the reason the left doesn't explain itself anymore.
f l a v o u r s
Yeah I think twitter is a big part of it. If you've been exposed to a lot of sealioning, you'll naturally start to assume anyone who asks a question is probably trying to sealion.
Even if you're talking to someone who is genuine and trying to help them understand, if you're doing it in public on twitter, the sealions will arrive and start overwhelming you. Over time that wears people down, and they loose the ability to be patient or trust that other people are asking genuinely.
Regarding sharing facts with somebody before the misinformation reaches them (around 15:50): it's due to the anchoring bias. Our brain can't know beforehand what the facts are and what the misinformation is. It's just trying to understand the word the best it can. The anchoring bias makes us lean toward whatever information we got first. Looking at it from this point of view, we could reinterpret it as: when given the misinformation first, the facts "fail to gain traction". Given the facts first, "the conspiracy theory fails to gain traction" (like the video cited). It's not that people don't want to believe facts, it's that it's hard to believe what you didn't hear first.
There are two things "Ppl should listen and communicate more with marginalised groups since they know best and are the least likely to spread missinformation" but also "Marginalised groups are rightfully tired of being bombarded with such complicated questions that make them explain their existince" it's not easy
I found the “Things not to say to [a certain type of person]” CZcams series really helpful. They gather a group of people who are tall/short/deaf/etc and then ask them some of the most common questions. The people get a chance to answer genuinely or with humor/sarcasm or explaining why it’s a hurtful question. They also can disagree with each other and show multiple points of view.
I feel like a good way to reduce the burden of answering questions is sending people links to sources you trust to explain a topic. It works well with people "just asking questions" because it weeds out the genuine from the trolls. It's not a perfect solution but definitely better than "Google is free"
Another thing is that with depression and anxiety being widely spread, a lot of people don't have the energy to stop and explain microagressions to someone who isn't prejudiced in any way
On the other hand, while I agree that googling something is easy, when you are neurodivergent, finding the energy to actually do the research and not fall into fallacious arguments is a problem
Depression and anxiety is not widespread at all. it's just that social media glorifies negativity and ultimately transforms otherwise healthy teens who just look for a purpose in society, into depressed adults. See the rise of the Doomer.
@shinsei tamago-chan Depression and anxiety aren't on the rise.... but social media is making more people depressed? Wouldn't that mean that depression IS on the rise? It being the fault of social media wouldn't mean it isn't happening.
Someone should make a site about this exact issue. Anyone who is asked a question can send a link to the site where there will be accurate information from POC, LGBT, and ND folks with studies (where appropriate) to back up the information
I’m a firm believer in always assume good intent. No one is entitled to your time and if you have neither the time nor energy to respond to someone, that’s valid and your right but if you are going to engage, assuming good intentions will always give better results imo. The worst case scenario is that you interact with a troll but even then, your arguments are out there and anyone coming across the conversation will see them. The person you’re talking to might not be reachable but if it’s in a public forum, it might reach someone else who does have good intentions but is ill informed. Great video as always!
Yes. That is so true. Even if your explanation/arguments doesn't win over the one asking in the first place, it might help in the future. Also, as you said, if you don't have the time or energy, just ignore
The part about how even if the recipient isn't engaging in good faith, someone else might learn something is so true! Sometimes when I'm not sure about something, I'll just read through debate threads and comments sections where people are making arguments and responding to questions and kind of get a sense of who is saying what, why they are saying it and what the evidence for or against seems to be. And if a particular resource keeps getting cited, I might look it up. I can quietly learn from conversations without participating directly
I had a conversation on twitter where I had a genuine question about someone's stance and after an acerbic non-answer, I had to clarify and persuade them that I was genuinely interested and keen to understand their viewpoint better. They were actually surprised that that was the case and apologised, explaining that it isn't often that people actually wanted to know and instead wanted them to explain so the person asking could then turn around with a 'gotcha' moment or some obnoxious nonsense. Made me realise how rare it is for people to just have civil discussions but then again, it is twitter.
Further, if you are not assuming good intent, why are you engaging with the person at all?
@@richardlyda8531 Because hurting people by backing them into the corner and giving them no quarter makes the person doing it feel better about themselves. It's entirely counterproductive; some might say it's becoming the very thing you hate.
I literally had to explain to someone that pride is not in fact a month where straight people worship gay people :/ I'm choosing to take that in good faith because they were responding pretty quick up until I realized that was the angle they were coming from and corrected them, then they shut up entirely.
the abundance of misinformation on the internet is a serious threat to marginalized groups. :/
I’ve never been a fan of the “Google is free” response, even if I see where it comes from.
Part of the issue is you can’t always tell who asks in good faith. Some are but may not seem like it because of how they ask and connotations associated with certain questions. Likewise, talking to people you KNOW about certain topics can lead to a much more meaningful educational experience than looking at emotion-based opinion pieces or dull, scientific jargon.
Lastly, privileged or not, it can take anyone time to process “earth shattering” revelations over the course of multiple interactions. It’s literally how our minds are wired. So just because someone isn’t groveling and hailing your wisdom doesn’t mean they haven’t taken in what you said.
Being too quick to shun, dismiss, or insult a person will likely make them defensive and less likely to listen to anything you or the people they associate with you say. At most, it’ll get them to nod to your face but then do the opposite behind closed doors. Or make them the trigger-happy SWJ types who start harping on others without actually understanding the topics themselves in a way that further isolates potential allies.
On the OTHER HAND, constantly having these conversations can be exhausting, especially when you don’t know if the other is there in good faith. And it’s also not fair to have to do. I think that’s why having multiple allies are so important. People can take turns tapping in for these conversations so no one is burning out. Even acknowledging that you may not have energy to engage but (politely) providing resources for those sincerely interested can help.
But sitting on a high horse by retorting to a sincere question with “Google it” doesn’t seem to do much in my experience.
This is exactly why whenever I start to research something, I try to get first-hand accounts before using a search engine. You can be terrible at explaining your questions to another person and they'd still understand what you're trying to get at; but should the same happen with a search engine, you can get a completely irrelevant answer or the answer given can be way off base.
I've already seen people sharing this as a way to shut down people saying "just google it" which feels very ironic since the conclusion of this video seems to be "it's complicated" and "people aren't good at clicking through past the title" and "it's not my job to educate you, but google is a poor alternative."
Me: Google is free. It's not my job to educate you.
My 4th grade class: um....so...should we pass out the iPads then?
I usually save this response for when the person I’m talking to has made it clear they don’t care about data or evidence. So after I’ve already sent two or three articles and they’ve made it clear they won’t read anything that doesn’t reinforce their biases then I give up and throw out the “I don’t have time to work Google for you”
As someone who “checks all the boxes” of privilege (white, cishet, male, etc.) a belief of mine that some of my more marginalized friends have really appreciated is that it should be the job of people like me who above all have the privilege of distance to be educating people and stuff like that. There is of course the major risk that comes with that where I or some other ally could easily end up misrepresenting an issue if we’re not living it, but the major benefit is that people get to learn about these issues from someone who has the privilege of distance, and we lighten the load for people who find these same issues painfully personal from a lifetime of living them and might not want to have that talk again.
I feel like, I definitely prefer, if the person asking, first asks; "Is it okay for me to ask you about this?".
Because it usually means they have good intentions, and it gives you an option to opt out of the conversation.
I don't know how we could do it, but this really should be the norm for these kind of questions.
Of course, it doesn't solve everything, as there can still be implied pressure to engage, but it's much better than just piling on questions and getting offended if they don't give you an answer.
This situation is literally the easiest it has ever been for anyone even remotely involved in activism (or existence as a minority). I keep a short mental list of online organizations that can explain people and issues to anyone with questions. It keeps conversations short and protects me from burnout. It also protects the curious from falling into a right-wing abyss. We've come a long way from being the only chance/conversation someone might ever have to become an ally, or to explore a repressed side of themselves. Enjoy the freedoms we now have, and fu*k Google.
"Intent doesn't matter, the impact does" sounds like what a Bond villain says before shooting their own henchman to make an example of them. It's ultimately understandable but there needs to be a better phrase.
Especially when paired with the stated issue in the video, this essentially creates a narrative running completely counter to the value of rehabilitative/restorative justice. People are punished without nuance while given no avenue of changing their behavior.
@@charliekahn4205 Or punished without nuance _when they have demonstrated no bad behaviour at all._
@@zapazap and given absolutely no way of defending themselves.
One thing that can be helpful in answering questions is to copy and save your responses somewhere, so that you can give the same answer to the same or very similar questions with little effort. Even if you copy and paste a somewhat relevant answer and edit it before sending, it can save you a lot of time. I imagine one reason people get tired of answering questions is they feel they're constantly having to repeat themselves, and this could really help with that.
I get told to "Google it," all the time, and as someone with ASD, ADHD, and depression, either it confirms my biases, or, more often, it's overwhelming information that skews one way or another. I never ask questions to fight or argue, I often ask questions to be proven wrong.
@@gregoryford2532 Most usernames are bullshit that ppl don't look at. It would be really odd to assume someone is actually an asshole just bc its in their username.
Yup. I get that last part especially, I often WANT to be proven wrong but for some reason, ppl often assume that the fact that i keep asking questions means im disagreeing or trying to fight. I have this problem irl too. Or if smthn still doesn't make sense to me, ill bring up why which can often come off as a argument or rebuttal. I'm not trying to fight, i just want to understand and i often wont get smthn at first explanation.
trolls intentionally make you spend your time googling for them and ignoring whatever you give them and telling you to google more. it's an exhaustion tactic that requires barely any energy from them while completely draining your energy. so...
so.... what? I really don't know the point you wish to make.
It is a given (I assume) that engagement is optional.
Cheers! :)
its also interesting to me when (in my opinion) seems like a simple answer for example (and yes this actually happened) on twitter i saw someone use the acronym QTBIPOC and I had NO idea what that meant so I took too google. nothing. no many how many times I could phrase "what does this mean?" the only thing that would come up is either something totally unrelated or it asking me if I made a spelling mistake. and when I replied to the tweet asking what it meant all I got was "google it its not my job to educate you lol" from like 20 different people. first of all it was just an acronym second of all when I DID explain that I googled it and showed screenshots of nothing coming up everyone was like "lol that's ur own fault"...... long story short it took me 6 hours to find out what QTBIPOC means (it means queer trans black indigenous people of color) like dude was that so hard?
I've never heard of this acronym, but it looks like google does provide an immediate answer now.
Here's something messed up that I found. I'm an actress and I was doing a collage for a character study. I searched images of "healthy couples" or "loving couples" on Google and all of the results, without fail, were of happy white couples. I then searched images of "dysfunctional couples" and while there were images of dysfunctional white couples, the majority were of people of color. For that, I ended up using the only image that was just a silhouette of a couple fighting cause it felt really gross to choose anything else.
I remember looking up brown eyes and the only people who weren't white had medical issues. Just... a swathe of loving photographed pale people, and the rest medical photos.
They weren't seen as beautiful. Only photographed when their eye had an issue. Still creeped out by this years later.
Needed this, thank you so much
I had a friend who was of that mindset. The thing for me was that I am a foreigner and I was never exposed to the kind of racism in America. She just kept saying that is was not her job to educate me, and started calling me out for not understanding... even though I wanted. She said that I should educate myself (which is true but isn’t the best way to learn by learning from people and not the internet which leads to rabbit holes some of which I did fall through with no guidance.) She just kept saying it wasn’t her job to educate random people in the internet... even though she wanted my opinion on those topics so she could bash me for being wrong (and I wasn’t a random person, we where literally best friends.)
Turns out that was just because I am ace, a foreigner and a atheist which she never liked... so it’s kinda messed up....and she refused to let me educate her when she said some comments that where racist towards me (I’m a Native American from Latin America).
Sounds like she wasn't a very good friend.
I’m so sorry you had that experience. That sounds terrible
Look, I can kind of see your point, but as a Black individual the number of times I've tried to educate someone who has then turned around and shoved that in my face makes up the broad majority of the interactions I've had where someone asks for an education including an interaction where my cab driver started yelling at me when I said I wanted to disengage from the conversation and I felt like my life was at risk.
Whilst there is a point to be had here, I think it's one that's primarily for the allies. As many have pointed out it's not on the marginalised group do not exist and should not exist to educate you. It's way easier for someone to say "Hey I've looked up xyz, can you please help me?" and I honestly feel that rejecting "it's not my job to educate you" is one that I usually hear from my white, neurotypical/able-bodied and/or cashew friends. Marginalised people are tired of having to explain the same basic tropes and just because information from our perspective is hard to find it stil doesn't mean that the onus is on us.
Whilst I appreciate your stance it doesn't really feel like you took the time to consider just how dangerous and taxing this is for many individuals. Pretty disappointing.
This video is a very yt take.
This video honestly comes from a very privileged place, in that she doesn’t understand JUST because a person is a POC/Trans/Disabled etc means they are an activist. That emotional labor can bring up ptsd that I do NOT think the women in this video understand
As an autistic person, I think the best solution is to recommend and provide sources such as books, websites and articles written by the marginalized groups or at least some guidence to set them on the right path for own personal research. While she had a point on misinformation, without that assistance someone could end up saying or doing something that is harmful to said communities. In this day and age, discussions are hardly opened or encouraged and shouldn't be a factor that is ignored. If someone doesn't feel comfortable answering, that is totally fine, we don't have to know everything. In short of what I am saying, doing your own research without gudience can potentially lead to a dangerous rabbit leading to bias, misinformed or outdated information that can be harmful to minority groups. Instead, like you mentioned about 'can you help me?' we shouldn't ignore the factors of communication or discussion unless we feel comfortable and let the voices that need to be heard, talk.
@@bethanymorris5750 I’ve stated I’m okay with helping, but I’m a bit thrown off by the seeming potential comparison of being Black to being autistic? Those are not the same things at all.
@@bethanymorris5750 I feel like you, like OP, have focused on the dangers of doing your own research instead of the dangers that explaining can put you in, and that’s not cool.
I have a tab saved with resources for those kind of questions and just direct people towards that. In my personal experience the best thing to do is to have a podcast or a video, a lot of people enjoy learning that way about something new.
Loved this!! Honestly I feel like sometimes the ‘google it’ response can be an excuse not to do real activism. Sometimes it seems like people forget that activism is WORK.
Educating people that already agree with you may be useful to a point, but all liberation movements definitely need to change hearts and minds.
I really empathise with people who struggle to engage with people (especially if it’s your identity that you need to defend; it’s draining, and trolls are awful haha), but part of true liberation is translating your narrative to someone else’s language. The burden of education is real, but it’s necessary.
I think this is where allies really make a difference imo. For example, it might be too much for a recently out trans person to explain their gender identity, but for a cis ally it’s exponentially easier to give an explanation for trans identities. As an ally that’s probably more comfortable in cis circles, it would probably also be easier to maybe understand the viewpoint of a cis person trying to understand trans existence.
Nothing infuriated me more than white people posting on their stories ‘unfollow me if you don’t support BLM’ - as if it’s not our job as allies to persuade those very people to join the movement for black liberation
Anyway haha, loved the video, that was just my little rant haha
I agree with you. When I tried to understand the BLM movement, people just unfollowed me or blocked me. Then I tried to participate in projects I knew wouldn't make a difference, (like not buying anything for a day or posting that black picture) and suddenly every white person I know said I was a great ally. Like ? No? I didn't do anything to help ?
Agree with this. As a nonbinary person who _is_ constantly tired by having to explain things or who can only express my identity in particular places because I know I'll be attacked or have a million exhausting questions thrown at me, it's a hard one. I want to feel like I can explain things to cis people who are ignorant or disagree with me but it's hard to know whether it bears any fruit at all, and it can be extremely draining and hard on my mental health. Part of being a marginalised person is having thick skin and having to explain yourself as a form of survival, but it's fucking exhausting and sometimes I think asking people to google things is a form of protection Also, maybe controversial, but I'm not a 'trans activist', I'm a trans person trying to live my life. It's not great for activists to just tell people to google it constantly but not all of us are activists and I don't tend to like the assumption that marginalised =activist. Activism is an actual job for some people. We all should engage in some level of activism especially for communities who experience a marginalisation we don't but I'm not a trans activist just for existing as a trans person in the world and not all marginalized people have the mental resources or even physical resources to do this kind of work. As someone with severe depression, interacting with trolls and transphobes is intensely exhausting and sometimes actually life threatening (can lead to not great thoughts and actions if you catch my drift).
My issue with your point is that I feel those who really care don’t need to be hand-held.
@@apopofculture Yeah, but the thing is, we also have to reach the apathetic and partly engaged (which is probably most people who are mostly concerned with their own personal troubles) in order to really change things.
This might be frustrating, but I think we have to accept that most people are simply not going to care to the same degree that activists do, and this is particularly true of the bulk of working class people who may be struggling with the time and energy to put into these things.
@@MRuby-qb9bd and how has that tactic worked out so far?
I think a comprehensive education link list that’s widely accessible and power reviewed would take the burden off random people with marginalized identities.
tbh i only say this to people that have already shown that they actually don’t care about the issues at hand, because you take the time to explain an argument and then they say “and? what about (insert irrelevant part of topic)?” like you honestly make good points about helping people that care learn, but i don’t have that much energy for people that don’t care in the first place!
21:08 Wait, that meme gets interpreted as *endorsing the views* of the guy on the right?
That's, like, the most perfect microcosm of the problem.
Personally, I find the way in which someone rejects answering the question to be the most important thing for me. The meme you showed at 21:08 and example interpretations from Reddit users at 24:10 are indicative to me of how discouraging it can be to ask genuine questions in good-faith only to be met with condescension. The way in which a rejection is intertwined with eye-roll emojis or infantalising emphasis often feels like they are othering me as just another bad-faith person or a fool. The most unhelpful response to a curious question is to make the person feel like an idiot for asking it. It's honestly really tough trying lern about these things I don't understand and avoid becoming too negative or dwelling in the communities that can be gateways to the alt-right. I'm honestly fine with people who don't respond at all, or those who say something to the effect of "I don't want to elaborate/have this conversation". Worst is when it's someone else (i.e. their fans) who take the initiative to respond for the person saying "it's not their job to explain it to you": because that feels less like an individual person rejecting for personal reasons, and more like acollective group deciding I shouldn't be a part of it.
It isn't a minorities responsibility to answer every question that you might come up with, especially if we don't have connection already, but ESPECIALLY if you're not paying me for the time that I'm putting in to explain things to you. The NAACP's, GLADD, and ACLU website and local chapters are wholey free and available to anyone to educate themselves on. When I'm questioned in the moment, it's usually something asinine, "why is this racist to say" "why is that homophobic". To expect that the person who has been wronged to teach you to be better is entitlement. I have never had someone come up and say, "hey i was doing some research and I have a question about this". So while "google is free" is rude, it's not meant to be nice. If you haven't done the leg work and tried to answer your question yourself, then you're being entitled.
And tbh, it's kinda tone policing as well.
Like, you don't want me to say google is free, but it's okay to say something nicer that means the same thing. 🤔
And if i'm not nice then somehow it's my fault that this person decided to stay ignorant and possibly listen to alt-right rhetoric?
The reality is is that this video is a very yt take.
To demand to be educated and criticize those that refuse to educate you is privilege.
@@Gothicgurlz12 for sure. Like, if you're my friend or family, I will for sure give you the benefit of the doubt and help you see the light, but more often then not, it's just people "sealioning", rather than coming from a place of actual learning and understanding. If you can't tell me the work you did to get to this conclusion or question, i should do extra work to get you up to speed. If you can't google "why is x a slur", then it's not my job to elaborate, for free.
"You denied me a right to learn... so now all brown people are not helpful and rude." like, if that's the first conclusion you're coming to ,you weren't coming over to our side in the first place.
ALSO, to the people that LOVE to be that girl and "help educate" good for you, that's not me. I'm not here to be "one of the good ones" in a racist or homophobes life.
@@Gothicgurlz12 It is 100% tone policing.
The other thing is, I feel like this video is somehow making it our fault if someone stays uneducated or goes down the alt right pipeline by us choosing not to answer a question.
Here's the thing: A) people who sealion are probably already in that pipeline, as are people who will give up after one person declines to answer. B) If someone really genuinely wants to know, they will figure it out, and my declining to answer will not be a barrier to them.
@@Gothicgurlz12 Yeah, this video seems like a miss ):
I feel you on this in multiple ways. I'm doing a video on the limits of empathy that engages with this topic. I also talked about the value of empathy in another video where I discuss "edgelord" themes in movies. The short version is that if we are truly looking to address certain problems, that's going to require SOME (not all) of us to do the work of engaging with a lot of shitty people to clean the shit off of them and rehabilitate them.
Some questions I don't want to explain answers to because they always by default open myself up to more intrusive questions directed at my person because all of a sudden it becomes okay to do that. 🙃(it absolutely fucking does not and the audacity of it is sickening )
I want an LGBTQIA FAQ list to link people
Probably on Wikipedia's list of lists of lists of lists.
@@charliekahn4205 probably. You've given me something to research for myself. Schrodinger's wiki
It isn't a FAQ, but I got a document with lots of info about LGBT peeps (most of all trans people), it also has info about racism and stuff docs.google.com/document/d/1ido70LgXsEhxcnyXE7RVS0wYJZc6aeVTpujCUPQgTrE/edit?usp=drivesdk
@@gab3926 this links to a doc about racism
I remember asking someone for a source because they mentioned a very specific statistic regarding violence against Trans people, and I could not for the life of me find it, and they told me to "Google better" like, the burden of proof is on you, and I explained that I wanted the source specifically so I could use it in arguments against bigoted people but could not find it. Now I have to believe they were lying or misremembering because I couldn't validate it.
Man, those are the worst people, from either side. They include a super precise number and they are somehow unable to find the source, and when you try searching it, you only find something that completely contradict that statistic.
I feel both called out (in a good way) and vindicated rn. You articulated really well why I get so defensive when people barage me with questions abt my identity, but also pointed out that dismissing them as I've often done isn't actually helpful to me or them. I think personally I'm gonna create a sort of list of resources that I can reference and recommend when it comes up. Thanks so much for your perspective!
Another possibility that should work with most people asking in good faith would be to say something like: "Life is complicated, and I don't have the bandwidth for a conversation of this depth right now. Thanks for seeking to better understand my situation though."
@@seancooper5140 that's actually a great way of putting it, thanks!
i think the best way to deal with exhaustion from a wealth of questions you don't feel like answering might be to redirect people to those who *can* answer them. like for people who are asking about LGBTQ+ issues, might point them to a list of LGBTQ+ creators i know will be willing to answer them, or who might have already made videos/posts about the issues the people are looking into. (i have, of course, conveniently forgotten all the creators i usually link)
This is something I think about a lot, and I agree that it's tough to find any "right" answers in this space. The idea of echo chambers and how to break out of them is actually the subject of a game I worked on (Wintermoor Tactics Club), and the best conclusion we could come to on the subject was "reaching out and educating those close to you is a difficult but heroic action." But of course it's not a simple topic, and I commend you for laying out a lot of the nuances surrounding it in a very clear and concise way.
Sealioning is hard concept because Autistic are accused of doing it, because they often lack the ability to read the room when asking a question. However Autistic people are extremely vulnerable to sealioning as people love to push them to having a mentdown over something that seems trivial.
Sealioning definitely exists however neurotypical people definitely have a different relationship with it.
This is where I'm at with all of this. On the other hand, it feels strange to always lead with "I'm Autistic" too.
yeah
I both need personal reassurance often so I'd ask questions instead of googling them
and I need a lot of detail so I have follow up questions
but I also love explaining things and can go on for days
repeating things
over and over
for someone who will not learn and is rude to me
so now I have a whole list of rules
and I'm older so I can read people better and I'm familiar with most situations
and I can set boundaries yay
when I was a teen tho...I was a problem
I don't ask questions to sealion. I ask because it's a fundamental part of the Socratic method. If a theory can't hold up as logically consistent with other tangential assumptions while under any scrutiny then that theory is probably garbage, and should be thrown out accordingly.
@@treasuremage7546
that's annoying
don't you have enough information already to know when something doesn't line up ?
it's not like regular people will come up with a complex theory you'd need to be an expert in ten fields to pick a label for
and if they are an expert quoting the recent scientific discoveries then you should Google it by yourself
if it's a human rights issue ...it's not really relevant
a single person can't prove or disprove oppression
you just need to know basic history and you'll know who is in power and who is lacking power
@@ghostpurr9570 I know what I know, but I don't know what you know. For all I know, you know all sorts of things that aren't so. It's only through extensive inquiry tying everything to fist principles that we can parcel out what's bullshit. As for whether it's annoying, tough. The minor inconvenience of having notions challenged is peanuts compared to the terminal consequences that can come from getting things wrong.
And as for basic history, knowing for example that Spain was occupied by the Moors for hundreds of years, or that Ottoman Turks kidnapped whites from all over to be made into forcefully converted and circumcized Janissary slave soldiers for even longer than that doesn't tell you much of anything about who is in power today.
I kinda disagree. Perhaps I am giving ⚪ people too much credit in thinking that they can fucking think critically for themselves.
I probably am.
But at this point in time.... I'm just at the point of full Karona: "either accept that I exist, or die".
I am so done "educating" the same group of people over and over on the same things.
And accept your approach will get you absolutely nowhere fast. Actually, it's likely to result in people writing you off entirely as someone who is either stupid or too self important to answer a simple question.
@@katfoster845If it's so simple then they are absolutely capable of doing it themselves unless apparently its easier to keep mooching off of marginalised people 😊
@@MarchingBand3699 well if I ask a question, it's because I want to know the answer and I think you might know. A hostile response helps nobody.
I can’t speak for racial minorities, but as a gay man it always makes me furious when I see other gay people getting angry and insisting that they don’t have to explain things…like how the heck do you think we managed to get the majority of straight people on our side in the first place?! Previous generations of queer people had to work tirelessly at explaining themselves and answering stupid questions. I get that it’s annoying and exhausting (I’ve experienced it, especially in the early 2000s) but that’s part of being queer, we don’t have the luxury of everyone automatically understanding us, we can self-victimize and get angry and ultimately do nothing for the social justice causes we claim to champion, or we can work to make the world a better place for future LGBTQ+ people. Anyways, thank you for listening to my mini-rant.
Absolutely glad to have stumbled here from a random twitter comment. Appreciate you breaking it down in a way to inspire empathy in those who feel slighted by these remarks surrounding important political issues.