Dr Kat and "Bloody Mary"?
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- čas přidán 14. 11. 2019
- Whether you know her as Mary Tudor, the Lady Mary, Queen Mary I of England or "Bloody Mary" - her legacy and reputation is a dark one. Is this fair? Why did this happen? These questions and more will be explored in today's video.
I hope you enjoy this video and find it interesting!
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Intro / Outro song: Silent Partner, "Greenery" [ • Greenery - Silent Part... ]
Images:
King Henry I by an unknown artist (c.1597-1618). Held by the National Portrait Gallery.
Portrait of Empress Matilda, from "History of England" by St. Albans monks (15th century); Cotton Nero D. VII, f.7, British Library.
King Stephen by an unknown artist (c.1597-1618). Held by the National Portrait Gallery.
King Henry II by an unknown artist (c.1597-1618). Held by the National Portrait Gallery.
Katherine Parr, attributed to Master John (c. 1545). Held by the National Portrait Gallery.
Mary Tudor (later Queen Mary I) by Master John (1544). Held by the National Portrait Gallery.
King Edward VI and the Pope by an unknown artist (c. 1575). Held by the National Portrait Gallery.
Detail showing Mary I and Philip of Spain from The Family of Henry VIII: An Allegory of the Tudor Succession, attributed to Lucas de Heere (c.1572). Held by the National Museum Cardiff.
Thomas Cranmer's execution, burning in 1556. John Foxe's Book of Martyrs (1563)
Honestly, Henry VIII has a lot to answer for. He messed up his children, his wives and his country pretty thoroughly.
A good punishment for him in Hell would be to be married to a bunch of women who are constantly cuckolding him and giving birth to girls and stillborns. He becomes the laughing stock of England. His subjects then turn against him, he is thrown in the Tower of London after a sham trial he is decapitated only to come back to life and have the same thing happen to him over and over again for all eternity.
Although the Protestant legacy did result in the conditions that would make Great Britain the leaders of the industrial world and in the short term give us the cany Elizabeth - I can't regret them.
Yes but the first born sons were taught to be rulers. Henry was not the first born. Arthur was. Henry was not taught how to lead, how to rule nor really accessed for his intellectual prowess (which wasn’t a lot). He was corrupt and more than evil but part of this was his fathers fault. Henry then was desperate for a son and Ann Boleyn actually miscarried a son (when Henry had his jousting accident) identifiable as a boy. If he just made Henry Fitzroy his heir, a lot of deaths could have been avoided.
Personally when it comes to that -world's smallest violin - the Catholic church and still does cause a lot of harm and the UK was better off without them IMO. Invividual Catholics I have sympathy being caught between loyalty to monarch and supreme head of your church is rough - but it was the Pope at the time that created that by declaring Elizabeth a heretic and saying whoever killed her did good. Elizabeth said she never sought to interrogate what was in men's souls - as long as you were loyal to her and some Catholics, noteably Marlowe who was a spy for her, were.
I don't think Elizabeth gave much of a proverbial what you believed.
Thanks for a balanced and rational yet sympathetic presentation. Rabid Mary-haters like to deny the fact that Mary (like her mother Queen Katharine) was mistreated, humiliated and threatened with execution by both Henry and Anne Boleyn, as Elizabeth was not. That Mary refused to order the execution of Elizabeth even under heavy pressure from her advisers, and that she authorized the execution of Jane Grey only after the pretender had twice been the center of rebellions and had refused to give a guarantee of good conduct.
Queen Mary I was the only Tudor monarch to refuse to sign into law the measures of "enclosure" that took land traditionally held in common for centuries by peasant farmers and graziers, and privatized it without compensation, to enrich Tudor courtiers, resulting in the homelessness and indigence of thousands, who were whipped from town to town as "sturdy beggars" and "vagabonds" and "masterless men". (The victims included women and children.) Again, Queen Mary was the ONLY Tudor monarch to refuse to sign such measures into law. Both Henry and Elizabeth were prodigal in this respect, in order to buy the support of local magnates.
In comparison to the burning of 300 Protestants in Mary's five years, one can adduce the more than 200 people executed by Henry in less than one year, while putting down the two years' Pilgrimage of Grace (1536 - 1538). Most were hanged, drawn, and quartered, a barbaric atrocity. Several women were tortured and then burned. (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilgrimage_of_Grace and similar websites.) This in addition to all the other tortures and executions for treason ordered by Henry and Elizabeth. Mary is not known to have urged her officials to seek more excruciating forms of torture and execution. Both Henry and Elizabeth are on record (State Papers) as having done so.
I would say that she was not so bloody as others of her family.
Mary is the only Tudor I don't hate. All the others were liars, cheaters, perverts. Richard III and Mary I deserve to be rehabilitated
Respect! Great comment
Seems so!! Again, history written by the winners and grotesquely twisted away from the truth. Thank you for this!! Did not know Mary protected her peasant farmers, from royal land grabs!
The fact that Mary hesitated to execute Lady Jane Grey, after Jane's first attemlt at treason and bad treatment of her as a child... Speaks volumes about her pious catholic character.
Mary grew up completely traumatised - as was Elizabeth. Both reached their adolescence - a period of life in which stability is essential - in a state of almost perpetual fear or outright terror; Henry truly was a thoroughly wicked man.
I think misogyny had a good part in shaping Mary’s legacy. Women who become queen in there own right seems to nearly always be painted as She-Wolves, power mad, sex mad, or just plain mad. Elizabeth only just escaped this my marketing herself as “The Virgin Queen” and even the half the accounts of her life still try to make her into a monstrous woman.
As you may see from many of the comments below.
>burns 280 people alive
“noooo you’re being mean to her, she was just misunderstood!”
and if it were just misogyny that led to mary’s bad posthumous reputation, why is it that elizabeth is seen so favourably?
Of course, the contemporary parochial and hopefully ephemeral revisionist "all-explaining" demagoguery of "misogyny" must show its ugly head. She was a terrible ruler, left Englad weaker internationally and more bitterly divided internally than almost any other monarch, she lost Calais but of course we must cut her slack and adore her internal struggle because she was a woman, otherwise we are misogynists :D
@Marvin Cooper It could be argued that Elixabeth's image makers, if there were people who conscously thought of themselves as that, simply moved Elizabeth into the huge imaginative vacancy created by the destruction of the Marian Shrines in the reign of Henry VIII and Edward VI. Hadn't England long been called Our Lady's Dowry?
The veneration of Our Lady was replaced by the adulation of Gloriana, The Virgin Queen, with wholesale adoption of the imagery and language of worship. Just as Our Lady has many different personas in the prayers of the faithful, humble handmaid, mother of God, protector of the poor, and so on, its not the imagery of the humble vessel that was adopted for Elizabath; it was the imagery of a Queen of Heaven; embattled and victorious, and appropriate for the age, as the reign progressed.
I'm not going to the stake for this, as it is only a speculative query.
@Marvin Cooper Let's be real: in order to hold onto power, one has to crave it. That goes for men, and even more so for historic women.
But, I don't blame the Katherines, Elizabeths and Hatshepsuts of long ago. Why should they not strive for the top?
To me the question isn't whether they were "power mad", it is whether they were good or bad for their nations.
I have always felt bad for Mary , she was seen as a golden child until she is treated like Cinderella. I mean If I was treated like how Mary was ,I would have cracked up too .
Yes, but murdered innocent people due to religion. Ugh
Really good video. It's interesting that Mary has the 'Blood Mary' moniker after 300 deaths (yes horrible but we're talking about numbers here), whereas Henry murdered over 70,000 of his own subjects. He's not known as 'The Ginger Serial Killer' though.
Thank you for the numbers! I knew Henry did worse...sigh.. probably because Henry's a man that he didn't get that label?
She ruled for 5 years out of which she spent about one and half in seclusion with her "pregnancies". Care to estimate, how many dead would have been there had she ruled for 37 years like him?
@@CzechMirco Sure! If Mary murdered 300 unfortunate Protestants in the 5 years she ruled (leaving out for generosity the seclusion with her 'pregnancies') - if she ruled for 40 years, then she would have possibly murdered 8 times that amount as 8 x 5 = 40. So I make that 24,000 people, still far less than her volatile, spoiled, cruel father. I've no doubt that she was pretty terrible but she had a wretched upbringing.
@@TiffanySommerfeld Well sadly Mary wasn't a very successful ruler. Her half-sister Elizabeth was better at the PR and a much better politician all round. I'm sure she was responsible for a lot of deaths, but a bit like the Allied atrocities in World War 2, they've been swept under the History Carpet.
@@janepurcell6747 You are not taking into account that protestantism would have grown during her reign not only because it had suited the nature of English people more but also because catholicism would have been increasingly seen as a symbol of foreign (spanish) opression and thus there would have also been a nationalistic momentum to protestantism. And the more protestants, the more burnings by the steadfastly devout queen.
I mean even during her real 5 years old reign the number of protestants actually increased (especially when they got their "martyrs", those burned by her).
Another incisive and excellent video. Queen Mary is altogether more nuanced and more understandable in Dr Kat's talk. Mary Tudor's life was a tragedy of Greek proportions. It is time that this was taken into account.
Lovely observation.
zimnaya She got royally screwed LOL
That was the kindest portrayal of Mary I have ever heard. I so love how you always find interesting points to have us reevaluate our opinions and suppositions of famous people. So sad the way her life turned totally upside down several times.
I think Mary just like Elizabeth had been scared deeply by their father and the times. Why didn't Henry do the right thing by his daughters and find husbands for them. Even though they were declared Bastards he still could have seen to their future. No, he was more concerned about his own life, his own wants and needs. Mary had nothing but her faith to cling too after her mother's death. She was bullied and threatened by Anne and made a fool of by Katherine Howard. Not one did her father defend her against these people. She was still of his blood he should have protected her but he did not. So when she became Queen, she wanted to do what was right, restore in her mind the true faith, she wanted to marry and have children. But I doubt Phillip was much of a husband to her. And who knows maybe she had been pregnant and someone made sure no child was born. We shall never really know will we?
Yes, Henry VIII could have, through marriage to the right men, basically disarmed both the princesses from ever gaining the throne and, more than likely, given them much more contented lives. I think that a possible reason he didn't could have been that he was covering his bases. He wanted one of his children to sit on the throne after him, he wanted his legacy, and if he ended up with no male heirs then his daughters were the back up. It's also possible that in marrying Mary to Phillip he hoped to get a grandson that he could perhaps name heir. I tend to see her marriage to Phillip as a nod on Henry's behalf that she was his legitimate daughter and, as Henry's break with Rome had been for trying to establish a male heir rather than an issue of dogma, I think he may have envisaged Mary's ascension to the throne as a way for his country to heal the rift with Rome after his death.
kez kezooie very interesting perspective thank you for sharing.
@@kezkezooie8595 Henry VIII had been dead for years when Mary became engaged, then married to Philip. So, Henry had no idea about it. Not trying to be rude. I just want the proper info to be out here on the internet. That's all. Do have a lovely day.
I think once Henry declared them bastards, marriage became much more of a problem than before. Eligible foreign princes would be less willing to marry a daughter declared illegitimate in her own country, and what benefit would it bring.
Similarly, an English "noble" house, was equally obsessed with their bloodlines. The easy acceptance of king's bastards had to wait for a very different English court under Charles II, 130 years later, and that acceptance was relatively shortlived, as the FitzClarences discovered another 100 years or so later in the late 1700s.
@@christopherseton-smith7404 And there you have it. No one really is interested in royal bastards. Elizabeth could have been married off to her childhood friend Robert Dudley, but his family was ambitious and she had "no prospects" as was said of the future Charles II around 100 years later. The deposed Charles, while Cromwell and cronies reigned, was mentioned as having "no prospects" in correspondence, when he sought marriage afterward. Amazing how fate delivers other outcomes, and the ambitious suddenly have regrets. BTW, a look at Charles II would also be interesting. He had a similar problem, in that his legal wife was barren, and there was no one he could trust, as everyone had schemes and ambitions. Perhaps Nell Gwynn was favored simply because she was genuine, having no expectations other than patronage.
I was brought up in a Suffolk village in the 1960s where Bloody Mary had burnt a local Protestant. It was taught to us almost as something in living memory. Although as an adult I learnt of her complex psychology and upbringing, its hard to describe the visceral hatred of her still alive and well in that village where people still laid flowers on his memorial centuries after the event.
I am thrilled to have found your channel today, Dr Kat!!!
Well researched, no fluff or annoying music/effects, and such interesting content on one of my very fave historical topics!
Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge with us here.
And may I say, your lovely warm voice and pleasent face makes the info delivery all the more enjoyable.
Greetings and warm wishes for your health from Ottawa, Canada ❤
Thank you, very kind of you to say!
@Mellowmoss Sky. Agreed :)
Very well said. May I add that her love for the topic really shines through. Lovely to see. Very refreshing.
I always liked Mary I and have always tried to find historical fiction books to read about her but these are few and far between. Everything tends to be about Elizabeth I. Sadly, Mary has been overshadowed by her sister in both life and death 😢
For me, she's almost become the pantomime ugly stepsister of history. It's both sad and reductive!
@@ReadingthePast Unfortunately, I believe that Elizabeth was just the better ruler and she made more of a mark in history than Mary. Plus she reigned longer. There is more to talk/read about.
@@nd4610 It’s not fair to say who is the better ruler since she has been over shadowed. I can’t find anything on her. I might barely find two non-fiction books on Mary, but Elizabeth you can find 10 -12 books on her. You can’t find any books on their bother Edward Tudor. Also Elizabeth could have had all her literature burned when she became Queen.
Same here, I personally like studying about Mary Tudor than her sister Elizabeth. History has been too unfair to Mary
Henry VIII was the cause of much of the insanity of the Tudor era. He was heartless and ruthless, and lacked character. If I were a woman in his court, I would have quaked at the thought of him turning an eye towards me!
You have summed up the real reasons for Queen Mary 1's reputation as "bloody" The Tudor period was one of dreadful brutality and injustice. Queen Mary 1 was just a product of her time. Queen Elizabeth I was much more scheming and devious.
I've always thought Elisabeth was devious. She's her mother and father's child that's for sure.
Dee A No, but she did order that mary be beaten routinely and be reminded that she’s a bastard lol
Yes, but if you are the reigning monarch and people are always trying to knock you off the throne, you'd become devious, too.
@Dee A are you taking about Anne or Elizabeth? Because we don't know what Anne would have done as reigning queen, she was only the queen consort.
Elizabeth is another story we do know what she did as reigning monarch and, while Mary is no saint, Elizabeth executed thousands, more than Mary, she was just smarter about it. But being burned to death or having your head hacked off with multiple strikes, I'll pass on both. Both are horrible ways to die.
Yousef Thorneycroft it’s near impossible to judge Tudor England and some of their behaviors by our safe, democratic, modern standards...we literally cannot relate to what any of these women went through. I think scheming, brutal and hard was just a FACT of the time, for any serious ruler who wanted to stay the ruler.....
I don't believe that Mary was malicious in her vision for England. She was trying to bring back peace to the land that she probably thought in her mind was destroyed by the Protestants. Also, Mary had to be made to look like the bad guy so Elizabeth's reign could look as golden as we were made to believe.
Burning people who practice a different religion is pretty malicious.
@@zarasbazaar everybody did that. 😃 It was just common practice.
@@zarasbazaar Bloody Bess did the same
@@zarasbazaarElizabeth I did the similar things but you’re pretending to ignore this fact. 😅
Dude Mary is such a tragic figure. :( Her story makes me want to go back in time and raise her as my own to prevent her from suffering all that shit
Well I think nobody should be murdering each other to death it's stupid people need to learn to tolerate each other beliefs I personally don't care what God or Goddess you worship or how you worship has long has you are not hurting anyone. People should be able to live beside each other with out butchering one another in the name of religion only fanatical nuts do such things.
Terrific video, as usual ! For me Mary is a tragic and lonely figure who, in the context of the times, acted quite rationally.
@Mo Fa - I completely agree with you about, Mary! Elizabeth I may have been considered more tolerant, yet she beheaded Mary Queen 👑 of Scots who was a true anointed Queen 👑, twice in her life. I can’t imagine having the life that Mary lived. She starts out a beloved princess of her mother and father, The Queen and The King 👑. She goes through such a fall at a young age. The fact that she’s being physically abused in the household of the new Princess Elizabeth at the request of her “wicked stepmother” Ann Boleyn, says a lot for how she must have felt as she grew to adulthood. Mary had everything against her for so long, I think it’s miraculous she acted as she did and not much, much worse.
Maria Giulia Rodriguez I think the Irish would say the same about Elizabeth
@@TeresaEliz henry was king and everything that happened to his children was reported back to him. If anne abused mary henry knew about it and allowed it.
So you consider burning people alive rational? Really?
@@Valcour Well, don't take my word for it. Look at what's happening at the moment eg in the US. Just like smashing the windows of Jewish shops in Berlin, 80 years ago, it's all coming back into fashion.
Elizabeth 1 and her cronies reduced her to only this.
Very little of her achievements is referenced. I like to think of her as that determined young lady who gathered armies and a following and rode victoriously into London to take the throne that was rightfully hers.
She made it possible for Elizabeth 1 to become Queen.
Elizabeth, as princess, was right there, at her big sisters back, when Mary I came riding into London that fateful day. Elizabeth made it known who she was loyal to. Elizabeth knew her sister was the rightful queen.
You need to study more.
@@reneenayfabnaynay5679 :
How do you know that?
Do you have any historical refrrences?
Absolutely right. If she hadn't rode into London to challenge the usurper, Jane Gray, Elizabeth would probably not have ascended the throne eventually. She paved the way for Elizabeth.
Context is so important for understanding Mary's actions as queen. As a Roman Catholic monarch, she believed thather soul and the souls of the entire country were in peril were she to tolerate heresy in her kingdom. She would have seen her actions as tough love, although it horrifies us in the 21st century. I think one exception is her execution of Cranmer, which strikes me as vindictive.
Mary had such a sad terrible life. I feel so sorry for Mary although I staunchly disagree with her policies. Mary was mentally destroyed long before becoming queen and I cannot believe that she was at all emotionally stable. I feel great pity for her. She suffered greatly and maybe her death was a blessing.
I think Elizabeth was as well. Both of Henry's daughters were severely damaged. I think it's because of Henry that Elizabeth decided to never marry.
@@stephsmith9911 Damn Skippy that is why she never married! And you are right, they were both damaged. Elizabeth luckily lived long enough to come to terms with her f-ed up childhood, Mary's life continued down a terrible path of misery.
@@HabrenOdinsdottir I never meant to state the obvious LOL. Some people think she did not marry because of power, vanity, etc. I simply think she was damaged. All accounts of Elizabeth state she was a very intelligent and precocious child. She may not have remembered her Mother much, but I have always believed she might have had a vague memory....and then her governess (Kat....something or other, I cannot remember her name but want to say Kate Ashley?) even wrote once that the very little girl asked after her Mother. Elizabeth's problem was that she saw what a man could do-and while she longed(I believe this) for a husband and children her Father ruined her forever. Nowadays, she would have been in intense therapy.
Mary, on the other hand......she learned nothing. She fell passionately in love with Phillip, to the point of almost begging him to lover her back. Yes her Father ruined her, but she didn't learn. I cannot, to this day, decide which one deserves my pity more.
@@stephsmith9911 Mary. Elizabeth wouldn't want your pity. I 😊
@@HabrenOdinsdottir LOL-If I expressed it, she would have boxed my ears!
When comparing Mary and Elizabeth I, we do have to remember that Mary ruled for 5 years where Elizabeth reigned for 44 years.
For Elizabeth to be the "golden answer", the stability after the storm, there has to be a tempest. Blaming their brother, when he had been so young (age 9) when he came to the throne, for the instability enacted by his regents seems heartless... Blaming Lady Jane Grey... although she appears to have been far less of a pawn than was suggested, would not have worked because her support collapsed so quickly. But Mary was 37 when she came to the throne and was there for 5-years. I see her as an adult scared by the power plays of those around her, determined to turn back time, and make pay those who she saw as having wrecked her life. She becomes the perfect target for Elizabeth to hold up and say "If you don't support me, this is what you return too." Just as Henry VII cannot afford to have Richard viewed as a legitimate king, Elizabeth cannot allow Mary's reign to have any hint of gold. The Tudors is nothing else excelled at marketing themselves.
Lake Lili Elizabeth was the consummate politician, her mind had to be always plotting to survive; she was always strategizing playing chess in her head and that helped her keep her head. Mary pretty much was in the same situation, but I don’t think she was as good of a politician- her intentions were too obvious. Her hurt and distrust were as well . But I’m sure that Elizabeth felt the same, and in spades. Like Bette Davis and Joan Crawford, women are always divided and then pitted against each other, So the boys can step back and be entertained by the floor show; too bad they didn’t somehow become close and United, and saw the real enemy for who it was: their father, and, more generally, the patriarchy.
I blame henry the 8th. Much of the problems can be blamed going back to him.
@HappyandAtheist her early history had a profound affect on her. Henry put her through hell and she in turn put England through hell.
Who doesn't? Even by the standards of centuries of brutality by our monarchs, he's in a class of his own.
After your comments about the number of executions under other monarchs, Mary doesn't seem all that bad. I just grew up hearing the term "Bloody Mary" and never really questioned it. She's a tragic figure.
Yes but, Mary I was only queen for about four years. Elizabeth I was queen for forty-five years. Not sure about Henry, but it was around thirty or so. I'm not great at math, but, I'm sure a math wiz could figure out the percentages on how many executed people they averaged per year. I'm pretty sure Marys would be the highest. JS
@@reneenayfabnaynay5679 That's kind of an unfair narrative, especially considering the fact that Mary's reign was short due to death from illness rather than dethronement, court machinations, etc. If you boil down those death totals into specific eras/events instead of spreading them out across each monarch's entire reign, I don't think Henry's numbers are too dissimilar from his daughter. A large number of his executions took place around the time of or due to his separation from the Catholic church. Mary was fanatical in her faith, but her execution numbers have long been misrepresented due to these sort of comparisons.
As far as I understand, Mary executed the wrong people.
Yeah, imagine how many she would have killed if she had even longer on the throne.
@@tosinakin2508 There is nothing wrong on pointing out the absolutely demagogic comparision of numbers for very different time intervals spent on the throne. Mary's reason for killing those people wouldn't have changed throughout her life because her catholic devoutness and the number of protestants in the population wouldn't have changed (if anything, it would have increased). Thus for the same time on the throne she would have ended up with the same if not higher numbers as Henry.
“Nothing succeeds like success”: and conversely, nothing fails like failure. Mary’s life was a failure on several levels: she was de-legitimised, she didn’t get to marry until she was past her best, she failed to have a baby, she failed to hang on to Calais and she was swimming against the current of the increasing momentum of the Reformation. Her sister Elizabeth, on the other hand, was ultimately a sparkling success, she just seemed to have the knack of playing her cards well and coming up trumps every time. That is how history has judged their respective careers, but in recent years, and especially following the sympathetic and attractive portrayal of Mary by beautiful actress Sarah Bolger in “The Tudors”, we are all starting to re-evaluate Mary and have a more nuanced understanding of the influences that shaped her eventual destiny.
Beautifully said.
I love your analyses of the Tudor past! I find your theory of Mary having a tumor, rather than an imagined pregnancy very plausible.
Thanks! Great, ( informative) video.
Considering all her Father put her through, in particular not allowing her any contact with her beloved Mother just to name one. To me it’s amazing how she even managed to keep going, ( raise an army) to defend her birthright. Her entire life was lived fighting for security, & happiness.
Neither of which she got, she died as badly as she lived.
In spite of the burnings, I can’t help but feel sad for her.
I'm always wary of videos about Mary because I do feel her reputation is worse than she deserves. People tend to malign her and it does seem very unfair. While she was no angel, she was no worse then most of the other rulers of her day.
I do feel her reputation was the result of the victor writing the history and once a story is told enough times people don't question it any longer and that has happened here.
Thank you for the balanced video, I really appreciate hearing this.
Loved this!! Have just discovered your channel. I've always defended Mary. I'd love to hear a psychologist's take on it, but I feel like maybe she, in her early teens and later, subconsciously learned that Protestantism = bad, especially with Anne Boleyn.
I think she just also had bad luck. A lot of the things that Elizabeth was successful in have come from her seeing Mary failing in them, and knowing what not to do. Mary being the first queen regnant of England had to figure things out blindly, and was the guinea pig.
Another reason I think she's given the name bloody Mary is because Protestantism became the 'winning' religion in England, not just with Elizabeth but forever (despite the odd Stuart Catholic) - if you compare to Mary's maternal grandparents who are just called the "Catholic monarchs".
Would love for you to do a video on Kathryn Howard! She's another that I'll always defend, that she was more of a victim than a promiscuous idiot..
amen to this!
@Tayla McRae I'd be happy to look at KH; I'll pop her on my list of topics for future videos. Thanks for the suggestion 😊
Tayla, can you explain why you think Catherine Howard was a victim and not a promiscuous idiot? Sure she was young, too young (in my opinion), to be manipulated into Queen-hood. But as a cousin of Anne Boleyn, she would have known the consequences of cheating on the King.
@@ChaleeRenee There is evidence to suggest Francis Dereham and Thomas Culpeper used blackmail to take advantage of Katherine Howard. It is rather suspect that she appointed Dereham as part of her staff knowing Henry's temperament. Plus she was very young and sheltered away when Anne Boleyn 's fall occurred. Who knows how much of the episode she knew or what could be learned from it?
Tayla McRae Hi Tayla, I am a psychologist in so I often do what is called in the business a “psychological autopsy” of a deceased legend, Which is obviously a best guess of their mental state and character from what we can infer from primary sources. I’m also a writer and a published on the app, Medium, A short essay in our subject entitled, “ in defense of bloody Mary.“ Here’s the link: link.medium.com/77JP7CZYD5:
Many of the points that you and others have brought up here I also concluded. My nom de plume on Medium is Patrick Oh!. check my story out; it also includes pretty pictures LOL. Please leave any feedback; that would be most appreciated. In writing it, I tried to come from an empathic, compassionate position, putting myself in her shoes, though acknowledging that some part of the monstrous caricature depicted in popular history and myths probably has some a of truth.
of all the tutor monarchs, Mary had the bluest blood, and was certainly a legitimate queen, and yet she was saddled in history with the most denigrating of monikers.though no better, she was certainly no worse than the rest of that bloody lot!
I’m not sure if its been mentioned, but Marys final humiliation occurred at her superstar sisters burial site in Westminster abbey, as Bess’ body was piled on top of Mary’s for eternity, but Mary was never provided the proper headstone and death mask accorded a ruler. There is no acknowledgement that the 2 sisters, Rulers of England, share the crypt. Just as her father had cruelly attempted to obliterate her mother’s memory after having her executed under the most scandalous charges by removing Anne’s coat of arms and any other decorative remnants representing her that were etched into the walls of Hampton court, so Elizabeth
Showed not a tempered, but rather more extreme cruelty and personal vengefulness as she aged , similar to her father, hers directed towards Mary. These dark feelings endured for her until the end, and her attempt to sling a final debasement at her dead sister at her own death only serves in her own judgement.
Mary is a tragic figure. She loved her God, church, country, husband, mother, father and even her stepsister Elizabeth. Perhaps only her mother gave her the love she needed but she was denied her mother's comfort in the last years of Katherine's life. God did not grant Mary the child she desperately needed. The others failed her one way or another. After all this, history has renamed her Bloody Mary and there is a cocktail named after her.
Anna Morris quite true, she was treated horribly by her father and her step-mother.
She was also a petty, deeply insecure, paranoid, cold blooded murderer who, along with her Spanish husband and the Catholic priests and men in power, mercilessly ordered the slaughter of countless thousands of her own English subjects - men, women and children, all burned alive or hacked to pieces by her soldiers. Babies and toddlers were tossed screaming into the same fires that their parents would then burn to death in. Simply because they were believers of or were accused of being Protestants by neighbours greedy for their possessions/land. She was a fanatic - a religious zealot, and I strongly suspect deeply mentally disturbed. She very much earned her moniker of “Bloody Mary”.
Tragic...but absolutely quite horrifyingly mad.
@@Caninecancersucksrocks The deeper tragedy is that Mary and others who participated in such persecutions, believed what they were doing was for the good of their victims as well as the country. Burning could purify souls or give a last moment for the victim to turn to the 'true faith'. The eternal life after death was more important in those days than any suffering on earth. In forcing England to become Catholic again she believed she was saving the souls of all of her people. Amazing!
Most excellent. Informative. So much grief in the name of religion. Mary seems unhappy. Unloved. Pushed aside and around. Perhaps a little off kilter.
I see what happened during the English Reformation as more politically than religiously motivated.
@@marpop4056 :
Right.
Power and money.
I am especially apprecitive that you delve in and debunk the misconstrues and the myths.
Give new information and ways to look at what history and time has come to make one believe.
So stimulating to my brain compared to the same stories being told again and again!
I love your videos so much! As an American who has no history of kings and queens I find the subject fascinating and you do such a great job! I do find it interesting that Henry never considered marrying off Mary in hopes of a grandson for the throne. It just shows how truly self centered he was?
Mary is always a very interesting character study. Her story is a compelling one. However I find it interesting that people always compare the body count of her reign to her father's and her sister's. The reason being that Mary was only on the throne for five years, while both Henry and Elizabeth ruled for about 40 years each. So I guess we can say she was much more efficient at getting rid of people she didn't like.
Mary is a sad figure, a child left bewildered by the workings of the world around her, and saddened by the ostracization of her mother. She must have been full of rage and bitterness. Unloved and tyrannized by her beliefs, she became a tyrant in turn. Not an excuse for her actions, but there is a case to be made for feeling some pity for her.
I really love your history talks. Many thanks, Dr. Kat. I feel very sorry for Queen Mary. She and her beautiful mother were treated dreadfully by Henry Vİİİ. No wonder she sought revenge on men like Bishop Cranmer, and reacted carelessly when trying to restore Catholicism to England. And what a sad marriage and failed attempts in trying to have an heir to the throne. Poor Mary.
As you said, the victor writes history. Regardless of the childhood traumas that Mary suffered and the persecutions by her father and brother, personal motivation is not relevant. Protestantism won upon her death. The policy of burning key members of the Protestant faith sealed her reputation as Bloody Mary, not because it was particularly bloody but because the victims became a focus of Protestant revenge against Mary. Making a book of the "martyrs" became an instrument of propaganda for her enemies to blacken her name for posterity. Had she succeeded in producing an heir and England remained Catholic, the book of martyrs would have been made irrelevant. Mary was no more bloody than the average monarch who held absolute power. When challenged or threaten in any way, they all fought back hard and brutally. So is calling Mary bloody fair? No it is not fair but it is reality. It is not worse than calling Richard III an evil hunchback or King John a tyrant who deserved to have his powers curbed. In each case the victors branded the losers. Thank you for your educational videos.
Thank you, Lily. I absolutely agree with your assessment. Although I do also wonder - and I didn't mention this in the video - if Mary's sex also plays a part. What do you think? You mentioned King Richard III and King John, for example. History may remember them as evil and/or deformed, but they aren't commonly referred to in these terms. While John is sometimes called, rather benignly, "Bad King John"; Richard III isn't known best as "Hunchbacked Richard". Equally, you don't commonly find children chanting their names into mirrors three times and screaming. The moniker "Bloody Mary" has become the stuff of urban legend, which I think also erases her queenship - I'm not sure how many those calling for "Bloody Mary" in the mirror know they are calling for Mary Tudor.
Thank you for responding. Yes, I agree with you that Mary being a woman definitely contributed to her becoming a common street chant. Being a woman with power did not make her a model of femininity, and when she used it to brutally suppress her opponents she was seen to be an unnatural woman and therefore evil. The double standard still exists today. If a man acts decisively and takes control, he is consider to be a strong leader. If a woman does the same she is considered to be a b*tch from the netherworld. Mary at least was feared and respected publicly in her life time. Mary, Queen of Scots, on the other hand, suffered the indignity of being forced to flee from her own country for unseemly behaviour that was no worse, if not better, than what Henry VIII had done.
Excellent points, have you seen/read Helen Castor's work on "She Wolves: England's Early Queens"? She argues that there is still an issue with females exercising power - for example, she asserts that the ease with which Elizabeth II was able to ascend the throne is down to the fact that UK monarchs reign rather than rule.
Lily Stonne and Dr. Kat Yes I would have to agree with the both of you! Greetings from Michigan (USA) I did listen to the She Wolves and she makes great points as well. I see what you are saying about women reigning instead of ruling. Thank you ladies for the discussion. Please stay safe and take care-Debbie
And Foxe's Book of Martyrs. Which also influenced American views of Catholicism as an evil foreign power.
Her life and reign was doomed from the start. As queen, her sole mission was to return England to Catholicism and to seek reconciliation with the Pope. However, it is evident her emotional instability and significant losses of family and rank had a devastating impact on her emotional psyche. Even her later portraits, as compared to earlier paintings of Mary, show how her bitterness and penchant for revenge was so pronounced in her face. In the end however, she was no different from her father or her sister in the end. All of them unhappy and bringing much misery to those near and far. Family Dysfunction at best...bloody at worst.
Look at all she went through from a very young age, all the losses and betrayal by her father, losing her mother's presence, being told she was a princess one day, a bastard the next. She was terrorized and bullied for years. Maybe that's why she didn't retain fresh and dewy loveliness.
Being mocked for her "false" pregnancies, when all the time she was suffering from cancer, would take the smile off anyone's face.
Thank you very much for this video! I've discovered your channel today, and I suppose I'll have to watch every one of your videos. Thanks for keeping me busy for however many evenings!
I'm obsessed with your videos! Incredible delivery, all info and no nonsense but you manage to still tell it in a really interesting manner. Your hard work is easy to see, thankyou so much for this content!
I love your videos, I usually wouldn’t want to sit and just listen to someone speak without visuals for this long but you make it genuinely interesting.
I just found your videos yesterday and I’m loving them ❤️ you explain things so well.
Thank you for your marvelous recounting of history, especially your fairness in reporting all. You give us the whole picture, not your personal bias as to what may have happened. Well done Dr. Kat!
I can’t believe I’ve only just come across this amazing Chanel. I’m obsessed! Keep it coming Dr kat!
My sister has just recommended this site to me and I'm very grateful that she did. Excellent stuff, thank you for taking the time to share your erudition!
Her father ruined her life and her sister destroyed her legacy. Awful family.
Your videos are absolutely fantastic. Thank you for all that you do, Dr Kat!
I’ve been binge-watching your videos during the quarantine. I appreciate your insight.
I really enjoy your work. This is a somewhat longer video, but I love you diving into these subjects and I’d be happy to listen for longer 🙂 thank you
Love all your videos, thank you!
It is nice hearing another perspective on the subject. Times are changing and the way we tell History too, and your videos prove it. I have nothing to say but thank you, and please keep doing these videos! They are helping me a lot
I just found your channel and really enjoyed your video and it's an unbiased look at Mary. While my training and degree are in Ancient History I certainly did enjoy this video and will be looking at more of your work in this series. Thank you.
I absolutely love your commentaries
I’m new to your channel and I LOVE it. Reasonable solutions give for history’s mystery’s , in convincing detail. Love it!!!
This is a great channel! I have always thought Mary has an undeserved bad reputation, especially to do with the heresy executions. I would have enjoyed listening to you compare her reign to another queen, her maternal grandmother Isabelle of Castile. Also did England not think she would try to take it back to Catholicism when they welcomed her as queen?
It's hard to quantify how many English people still kept faith with Rome when she ascended the throne, so they may have welcomed such a change.
Full disclosure, my specialism is British history but I'd like to look into Isabella further, with the hopes of making a video on her in the future.
@@ReadingthePastoh please do; i have seen a video on another channel calling the people’s history and it’s fantastic and very well researched and it was better than anything in Spanish media about queen Isabella; not that im throwing you into this as a challenge; but Dr. Kat you are also a badass at what you do; in fact one of the best; of selected few ones; who offer a fair and balanced view of historical errors; you also say it as it was; rather than sugarcoat it; rather than revisionist views; you go much further; and much more in depths; i really think your video on Isabella of Castile would be nothing short of spectacular and brilliant; you did a video on her daughter Juana the mad; and you absolutely nailed it; also as a Spanish myself i haven’t seen anything as good as your video on Juana of Castile in Spanish media; and i have seen and watched them all; im obsessed with history; but you went into a more serious discussion about her madness; going into important details; making great points to make honor to your channel; the importance to understand the past to better understand our present; and perhaps do better in the future; of course it doesn’t always happen that way; but as far as explaining past history; you make people want to know more and explain it in ways that highlight the importance of knowing more accurately what happened or didn’t happen; rather than just hear about it; or reading about it, you put everything into context and you do it so brilliantly; so i say you already have an honorary badge of honor without you realizing it in major Spanish history as well; great job: cannot wait long enough for a video on queen Isabella. cheers
You do a great lecture. Thank you
Wonderful video! I love how you place things in context.
Delightful! You are delightful to listen to, Dr Kat.
Loved this video. I found there were fewer characters discussed than at other times, in other videos. I actually followed along with the lesson! Amazing feat, for me!
I just discovered your channel today, and have been binge-watching! Thank you for not having wildly inappropriate and/or anachronistic music. Yesterday I was rather startled to hear Ravel's "Bolero" as background music for a segment on the Inquisition!
So happy I found your channel. Thank you for the amazing content!
Lovely video, as always. Love and thanks from Italy 🇮🇹🇮🇹🇮🇹🇮🇹🇮🇹🇮🇹🇮🇹🇮🇹🇮🇹🇮🇹🇮🇹🇮🇹🇮🇹🇮🇹🇮🇹🇮🇹🇮🇹🇮🇹🇮🇹🇮🇹🇮🇹
Very nice! Lovely voice, well-presented, you make it easy to understand this fascinating, tragic period.
Fabulous. So happy I found your channel!
Thank you for a thorough and well-balanced presentation.
I've been on a Dr. Kat binge the last couple of days. I have seen and read just about all things Tudor in the last 10 years, but you bring up interesting points and facts that have been left out of the traditional Tudor documentaries. Thank you for your insight into the Tudor world! I agree with so many of your conclusions.
Awesome video Dr. Kat! You should do a video about the complex relationship of the Tudor siblings, especially mentioning the story of when Edward and Mary had a bitter argument at court at Christmas; it really humanizes these people that seem so far out of reach, yet have the same(ish) sibling drama that we have:)
The lovely Dr. Kat has done it again. Wonderful talk.
Can get enough of your videos! Thank you, I have my headphones on and I can clean every corner of my house for the fifth time this week, it’s my 3in1 program: exercise/housework/, thank you!
Excellent Dr. Kat!❤️
A best story teller of the year....thank you
Please, oh please, do two episodes: one on Jane Grey, tragic girl; and a second on the traitorous family of men---but also the great love of Elizabeth--- the Dudleys.
Excellent presentation. I appreciate that you look at the various things that led to the blackening of Queen Mary's reputation. Events in history don't seem to have but one cause, but many, and more nuance is needed to sift out truths. To comprehend rather than judge.
I've always felt sympathetic towards Mary. It must have been torturous after she was shunned by her father, who she trusted up until that point, and was forced away from her mother. Then to make things worse she was neglected during her prime marrying age, and was unable to produce children. I'm sure she was desperate to have someone who would love her and want her. Being a mother would have given her that. Such a tragic story.
New Sub! Just found your channel and I love it. My first of your stories was Anne of Cleves and I thoroughly enjoyed it. I don't think she gets enough recognition for all she had to deal with. Mary's life unfortunately was frot with trauma and tragedy. Her father was unbelievably cruel and separated her from the only person who really loved her...Queen Catherine. Truly a shame!
Brilliant information, Dr Kat.👏🏻👏🏻👍🏻
So happy. I found this great channel
👩💻 I am a retired 1st grade teacher. One lovely spring day 20 Apr 2011 I was teaching a Phyical Education class. As class was winding I had the children laying on the floor resting to calm them down to walk in the hall after phyisical activities. As I walked around observing them I lost my balance, fell, and hit the back of my head on the cinder block wall and blacked out for about a 60 to 90 seconds or so. From that moment on I have had a constant 24-7 headache with the pain level always at an 8, 9, or 10+. My behaviour did change to being more annoyed and inconvenienced. My comprehension is next to nothing. At first I could not even read a sentence or two without staring at the words like a foreign language; that angered me I was half way though a Ph.D. and had to drop out. I can see Henry being irritable and frustrated because there are things I can't do now pertaining to brain function and some motor skills. I have regained some functions but not to the level they were at before. So I know that I will be struggling and working toward improvement for the rest of my life. Henry being a King with appearances meaning everything to look strong and healthy probably was hard for him. I don't know about being a tyrant that was available to him to solve his problems not even knowing why. I know when I go into public I really watch myself and try to be extra kind. I walk slower and I have to attend to my balance or I will fall over which I did in Church one Sunday. I never know when a headache will take over for 4 or 5 days, those are 10+ days. When explaining a problem I always ask if I am making sense because things get mixed up in my head. So as far as a Traumatic Brain Injury I feel poor Henry VIII suffered from one. 🤯Never Smack Your Head.🤯 Be so ever careful to protect one's head and what resides inside. Much love and peace. 🕊&💞 🖖😷🤗 🙋♀️💗
I once read that Mary I wasn't inherently cruel, but allowed cruelty to be perpetrated in her name. Enjoying your videos immensely!
oh, I really like you. Just discovered your channel and well done, great content and you are so knowledgable. I'm hooked, well done
Very informative. Thank you!
So interesting! Thanks!
Newly subscribed. And on a binge.
Great stuff.
I just found ur channel yesterday and have been watching several of them. Ive really enjoyed the unbiase telling of history. Odd that everyone who watched arent subscribing.
Really enjoying these videos.
Dr. Kat, this was a truly beautiful and touching rendition of Mary's life. Thank you.
Great cocktail, cheers!
Beautifully explained.
I just find it all quite sad really, that people think power will bring them happiness and acceptance. Of course, that mindset still exists today...
As the only follower of Mary I, i want to thank you for this video.
That unfair name has always bothered me, particularly for those of us who really study history.
It is known that without Mary there´s no Elizabeth, the policies implemented by Mary continued under Elizabeth's rule. Like you said in the video, winners tell the story, and in this case Mary didn't.
Cami Jaque it actually isn’t clear that Elizabeth would not eventually assume the throne had Lady Jane Grey been successful. Undoubtedly, Mary one would’ve probably been killed off, but since I believe the big reason why Lady Jane was put forward was to secure the Protestant reform, since Elizabeth was protestant , I’m not sure she’d have a reason to kill her. It’s all hypothetical, but Elizabeth was nothing if not a survivor, last in line, she made it there, and then lasted the longest, more than her father.
"the only follower of Mary I"?!!! Surely you are joking madam: there are many of us who love Mary ;)
@@msinvincible2000 :
Yes.
Many of us!
Please explain how it's possible that even though I know a lot of these details, it is still fascinating to hear your delivery and interpretations. Completely unique, with interesting insights, and a new perspective on stories we thought we knew about so many famous historical figures. Totally love and enjoy your videos!
As far as her title of "Bloody Mary", I would like to add that it seems she was branded for doing about the same as many other monarchs of those times. They could all be quite brutal and merciless when it came to having their own way. I believe it was probably considered a relatively "expected" thing to happen back then. Modern times would not allow for such behavior, but at that time they had supreme power and often used it to their advantage, having seen it happen all around them their entire lives.
I really appreciate and enjoy your videos .. thank you 🥰
Both Mary & Elizabeth come across as somewhat unhinged which shouldn't be any surprise when you take into account their upbringing. Elizabeth's strength was the people that she had surrounding her, Mary didn't have anybody of such calibre.
Your channel was You Tube recommended to me. I clicked and after one video became a subscriber. Since then I have been amazed with the content. Lucky me😀!
Loving your channel dear heart!!!♥️♥️♥️🙋‼️
Very excited about this video as “Bloody Mary” Tudor is fascinating to me. Thank you Dr Kat
Mary Tudor had a tragic childhood, that’s the least we can say. Seeing her religion being butchered would have devastated her. After becoming Queen she did what all others before and after her did, take out her enemies. According to me she wasn’t more or less cruel than other royals. The fact that history is being written by the victors and that in that time the writers were men could make up a big part of the myth of her being a vengeful Queen aka Bloody Mary. Personally I think she did great being Queen although her life was tragic and sad.
Enjoyed this very much
Thank you DK 😊
I have just discovered the channel and I really enjoy it :) Have watched 3 videos today alone.
I think I just spotted your PhD thesis on your shelf (hardcover bound too!). That's so cool!!