Just a note from a 20 year residential electrician. First you nail up boxes. Then you drill holes to pass wire through. So, yeah, sawdust in boxes. Also, most problems I have ever seen are caused by arcing at a bad connection. Just think, an arc is used to melt steel together. always twist wires together before you wire nut them securely. I have been on service calls where the problem was a melted push-in connector, so they are not perfect. As far as loads go, most failures of this type I have seen were from running a portable electric heater. It does not even have to happen at the receptacle where the load is connected. If there is a bad connection at another device upstream it can happen there. Just my 4 cents worth.
Agree 100% I ALWAYS, every time twist the conductors together evenly and tightly. Always use the screw terminals on receptacles. (avoid the push in b.s) In my experience the push in connectors don't stand up to any considerable electrical load, I don't like using them.
I agree with both comments. I just wanted to show a situation that could happen under worse case conditions. I didn't even use the stab-in part of the receptacle. I think I might for my next video. Maybe melt the plug 😀
indie209 only an arc fault circuit breaker is designed to detect these types of faults (arcs) the ontario electrical code requires afci breakers for all receptacle circuits in residential dwellings since 2013
The wire nuts are designed to make a perfect twist. Sometimes I'll use a wirenut just to pretwist a big bundle, if it looks stressed, then I'll throw it out and put a fresh one on. Think about twisting 6 wires with a Linesman plier... not going to look as good as a wirenut connection. I do get paranoid often though with larger wire groupings and back the wire nut off to be sure all conductors got a good twist. But if it's 2 or 3 wires and I stripped the same amount of insulation off each wire, as long as all the conductors are lined up at the strip point, I know the wire nut will make a perfect connection. I generally grasp the wires about 3 inches away from where the nut is, and hold it firm so the twist doesn't migrate down the wires. Usually 9 twists does the trick.
This is exactly what happened to my sister's cabin. It was in escrow to be sold and they did a "last minute jury rigged fix". She left a heater plugged in while she took a day trip. Came back and it was totally destroyed (thankfully didn't take the forest with it!). Fire department reported cause was faulty wiring. The problem is real.
oiljerk, ha ha. Yes, but it was just an example. It could have easily been a space heater and a vacuum cleaner, both which could be running for over 10 minutes. All while you were sleeping!!
Spaceman Rick I have never seen anybody sleep walk but if you are using your vacuum while you are asleep for over nine minutes I think you have a problem go a doctor
Now this is the type of video I’m looking for. I searched “All ways fires can start” but most results are videos showing burning houses, news stories, ect. I want to see more educational content on such an important topic!
It will save your electric bill some but it'll be more expensive replacing hot water and groceries all the time. Just let her RIP and unplug unnecessary stuff. Only thing needing continuous current is water heater (if electric), fridge/freezer and HVAC if you have central heat/air. Though I wouldn't wear out plugs/outlets to your large appliances if you don't have to lol. More trouble than it's all worth really.
I almost had a fire today. The power cable for my CCTV wire melted apart halfway down the wire until the pieces were in two. I only noticed it because I saw an orange glow on the side of my desk. The thing is, I wouldn't normally be home when I discovered it so it might've been a different story :/
I suffered a similar problem a while ago: I had a freezer and a microwave on a power bar, somebody plugged and unplugged the microwave and in doing so, loosened the bar's plug on the outlet. the freezer remained plugged onto the extension, and worked out as usual over night. at some point, the arc between the outlet and the plug melted the plug's own frame, loosening it even more, until it melted the wire inside the plug, and the wires shorted out. I heard the breaker pop downstairs and went looking, and nothing seemed out of place, no burns anywhere, no appliances shorted out, nothing. reset the breaker, plugged everything back in, and when I grabbed the extension cord, I noticed the plug had melted. taking it apart, I saw the interior all burned up. fortunately, the breakers had been changed a while back, replacing the old ones which were almost 30 years old. I doubt those old breakers would have popped.
Part of your issue to start with was having it plugged into a power bar! High-current items, such as anything with a motor, fan, or heater or high - voltage transformer, such as in a microwave, should be plugged directly into the wall. Of course, in the case of in the video, it wouldn't have mattered, but, still, always plug high-current stuff into the wall directly.
@@EphemeralProductions I can't remember the details of it anymore, but the microwave was usually plugged directly onto the outlet. it had been like that for years, even though the microwave is rarely used, and often left unplugged. it was because we moved the microwave onto a support rig that an extension was needed, and the only place to plug it on to, was the freezer's outlet, so we moved both to the extension. not my problem anymore.... I fixed the broken plug, set it right, and went about my business. if it pops again, it can burn the house down for all I care... I won't fight stupidity.
Nice demonstration and very well explained. It's scary to think this could be happing inside your walls. I've gone over and checked almost every outlet, switch and junction box that I could find in my house to try to prevent shit like this from happening.
@@gatewaysolo104 Haha, thank you I chuckled at this one imagining a continuous stream of sawdust after construction is complete (like it's just raining).
Excellent video. I have photos of a couple boxes where this has happened. After the plastic melted the circuit operated just fine yet until some type of vibration would cause the now exposed wire to contact the metal box and trip the breaker.
About 2 years ago when I worked for Palmer Foods in the frozen food section this is what started a fire the fire was burning inside the freezer and in area of which no one could see when you started smelling smoke but we couldn't figure out where it was coming from due to the ventilation system later we found out that there had been an electrical fault and the exact way that you demonstrated inside the freezer motor housing what's completely inaccessible.
Check any woodworking shop and you will find sawdust in all electrical boxes and gear. All electrical products need maintenance, for a long time it has been install and forget it.
Dust gets in the boxes and builds up over time. The sawdust isn't unrealistic. This scenario does happen. Most of the time the box contains the fire and it doesn't burn down the house. All connections need to be inside a box. My house has a few connections that aren't but it's old knob and tube wiring, wrapped, soldered, and sleeved.
he should have lost you at loose wire nut, as a good electrician or even competent handyman wouldn't have done that... for the record... old homes acquire dust and bugs in their outlet and switch boxes.
When you turned the toaster on, you could hear the RPM of the hair dryer drop. That's kinda why when I move into a new house, or add an outlet, I plug in an extension cord, and add some high load devices to that. Then I grab a multimeter and check the voltage on the extension cord before and after turning the load on.. Voltage going down with the device on = check what's wrong. It might not catch everything, but it sure has pointed me towards some crappy wiring in houses..
This is a good demonstration. Thanks for taking the time to make this video. In a metal box its not so bad but in a plastic box it could easily be worse. Especially if it burns into an attic or if its in a kitchen fan or receptacle where there sometimes is cooking grease accumulations. There is often wood debris in boxes from construction or infiltration afterwards.
"An Arc Fault Circuit Interrupter would have tripped the circuit right away" Doubt it. They claim to but they've failed a lot of practical tests for series arcs.
It's a brand name turned colloquial term for wire nuts in Canada, kind of a nationalist thing as they were invented by a Canadian Scottsman by the name of William P. Marr in 1914 though only patented in the 30s
Great demonstration! Give it time, dust actually collects in switch and outlet boxes. The dust provides the fuel for the arc. Here's some info. Screws on outlets and switches actually loosen up over time. Creating loose connections. The same can happen when aluminum and copper wires are twisted together and capped using a wirenut. I had happen at my parents house. The house built in 1963. The was wired by an electrician. I'm guessing at that time, there was no clear understanding about copper and aluminum creating electrical issues.
The current of the receptacle was maintained at 14 amps. If you review the video I mention that. A 15 amp break can be loaded to 80% of it's rating when the loads are continuous. I set the video up to demonstrate that the circuit breaker will not trip if it in not overloaded.
Does any body pay attention to anything they see, read or hear anymore? Re-watch the video, this time pay attention. Stephen, I hope your not an electrician. Scott, he clearly states it is NOT an Arc-fault breaker. Pay attention!
Spaceman Rick Spaceman Rick He says only that he is using a standard breaker and that the circuit is wired according to the CEC. Where I'm from standard just implies it's single pole. I need to ask for a non-AFCI explicitly, hence me asking for clarification. No need to be rude.
I live at apartments in San Antonio Texas 2017. I just had a San Antonio Housing Authority inspection that passed the kitchen having no GFCI except for one electrical outlet. The rules in 2014 were that all the kitchen is to have GFCI. Also, in this apartment are several electrical outlets that are loose. The plugs fall out and the electrical testing device I just bought says the grounding is shaky or lacking on several. I had surge protectors on 2 of these and then I noticed lights crackling and blinking and then the surge protectors stopped working completely. I wrote a work order July 5th for these problems, but so far no one has showed up to fix this. The apartment manager said that the SAHA would have to show up again to inspect again before these problems are fixed by the apartments. But when I call the several inspection managers at SAHA, they do not call me back. Today is the 15th. Why do these apartments--Arriba apartments, 5200 Blanco--not fix these electrical issues whether or not SAHA inspects or not? Loose electrical outlets lead to fires, right? So I immediately bought rental insurance for this apartment because I am thinking that all of these apartments are having these same problems.
35 year Red Seal Electrician, great video Andrew. I have seen this probably over a thousand times.Loose connections are very common. In many cases the electrician or handyman thinks the connection is good because the wire connector gets tight, but in many cases, especially with multiple wires in the connection it is very common for one of the wires to back out of the connection unnoticed and presents a loose connection and a fire hazard. Now, as for all your smart ass comments boys. Women plug in the curling iron to heat it up for several minutes then plug in there hairdryer and go for several more minutes. More than enough to present this exact situation Andrew has shown here.want another one boys and this is usually YOU. You plug in two car block heaters in the winter to one outlet or two outlets on the same circuit and do the same thing. Lets see, space heaters going full out and then someone wants to vacuum and i could go on and on. Keep up the greats videos Andrew .CHEERS
Thank you for the kind comment. It is winter time where I live right now. Just fixed a junction box that was used to splice car plug branch cct's. Box was way too full like 30 wires in a 6x6x4 pvc box. All of the heat melted the pvc box. Made it easy to find the problem. My next video will be about multiple conductors all pulling 12 amps and the heat created. Thanks again
When he showed the temperature on the device and it said 91 I was like," Oh 91 Fahrenheit? That's not TOO horrible-" then he said Celsius and I just about lost my jaw when it dropped to the core of the Earth. Getting that high in temp in mere minutes is honestly horrifying
I wanna bastardize this phrase. "Loose wires sink ships", "loose lips sink fires", I dunno. I'm not finding a creative funny enough one. Thank you a ton for this demonstration of loose wiring arcing. It's videos like these and the short circuited lithium 18650 videos that really make things real to some.
Happened to me today.... thanks god i was home and noticed the smell and smoke! I was on time, the wires were still in good condition. I replaced the connectors for WAGO 221 instead of these blue screw-on connectors.
I have a very stupid question to ask. And I apologize, I am not an electrician and I want to know. Can an outlet catch fire even if you don't have anything plugged into it? I know obviously if you but metal on the base were the outlets are it can if it is metal because it is still transferring the current. I just don't know if the metal could overheat if there was a wiring issue and still cause fire to happen.
For? This is a typical metal electrical box, or terminal box as you will, with convenient knock outs. I prefer it better than your typical German plastic boxes that break apart the moment I bump into it with falling wires everywhere that never gets fixed ever again (Too many houses I've been in Germany with situations like that). TUV isn't going to prevent any of this as they're just a certification lab. Meanwhile, these metal boxes are all over the place and outlasting the owners. The only difference between this box and a typical terminal box in Germany, it looks prettier with a wago terminal connector. Doesn't look pretty after I bump into it with me knee however.
If YOU are overwhelmed with typical distributor or bifurcation doses in Germany, then you should really stick to the us-American handicraft solution for suicidal persons. But it's not our junction boxes :)
+/dev/random yea lets conveniently forget that one is conductive and the other is not. totally not the biggest risk factor with electrical installations.
If the saw dust does not ignite, can I add a bit of alcohol to the whole thing and light it with a match? I think this would present a realistic scenario as I often have alcohol in my bathroom cupboard.
Just a question: here in the Netherlands it is not allowed loose wiring in the wall. Like the white wire coming from above in this video. We always have to use PVC conduits. I wonder why that is not the case in the US, Australia, etc.? I've seen a lot of people building walls from wood there and I think the changes are high that mice will nibble on the wires, causing electrical shorts and maybe fire as a result.
In Canada we are allowed to use cables inside of wood frame buildings. Mice are not as big of an issue as people driving nails in the wires after the house is finished. It is important to ensure that the conductors are properly spaced away from the edges of the wall to prevent this from happening. The biggest reason we don't install wires in conduits in Canada is the cost associated with it. Thanks
My daughter mentioned that it happened when she turned on the light switch in her dorm restroom. The spark almost burn her face had she not move fast enough. It also flamed after smoking. What can she do while waiting for an electrician to come check in two days time?
Hey I was using my toaster one morning and nothing was burning in it but I smelt extremely strong burning candles could that have been the wiring Also when I use my electric oven at times I smell matches but it needs to be cleaned so I’m assuming that smell is from the grease
My outlet once smoked whem i plugged in my AC and it scared me but i still use the outlet and it hasnt happened again but i pray it doesnt happen when im asleep because i sleep right next to it
I am using 150 watts on four 1875 watt outlets in one room. That is a total of 600 watts. should I expect flashing and crackling LED bulbs on 2 of these outlets which were hooked up to new surge protectors? Or 4 incandescent bulbs in the bathroom to flash and then not work? Could be the switch hooked up to these outlets. Then these 2 outlets stop working, and show to my circuit tester open neutral. And then an outlet in the living room stops working all of this at the same time? The owners to the apartments I live at say it is my fault that the outlets stopped working and the lights flashed and blinked. These owners did not tell me that these apartments were built in the 1974s with a good chance to have aluminum wiring. They did not tell me that there are loose outlets in all the apartments that could mean loose wires, loose screws or loose blades. Aren't the owners at fault completely if there is a fire at all? Am I not supposed to expect 1875 watts at each outlet as a part of my all bills paid rent lease? I just unplugged all the wires from loose outlets in my apartment. Because I had to read about loose outlets on my own, I read that there is an excellent chance that using an appliance at a loose outlet can immediately start a small lightning bolt/arc to shoot through the walls.
So even with the presence of combustable material such as sawdust this entire event didnt result in a full blown fire? It flamed up for a few seconds in the end but dissipated to ember glow.did the flame re emerge after cutting the video? Or was this hazard remedied by fire eetardent materials used in this experiment? I had witnessed soarking from an outlet and discovered a buried metal junction box with melted murretes that had an open hot wire to be the culprit but it did not result in an actual fire.is this possible?
If the load was allowed to continue the heat developed by the loose connection would have made it's way along the wires and eventually outside of the junction box. The surface temperature of the wire would be enough to cause ignition to some combustible materials. I didn't allow this to reach that point but I am currently working on a video that will demonstrate this and hope to upload it soon. Thank you for the reply.
So wire splices with untaped wire nuts inside a metal socket box are normal in the Canadian electrical code? I don't know many electricians that would do things like that.. Maybe some DIYers or maintenance man but not a real electrician..
I have 2 neutral wires burned at the busbar . My electrician installed the panel 15 years ago and it is only now I noticed as I was installing a new MCB for a Camera system ..... Yes yes I know I'm not supposed to be in there if I'm not qualified before all the spark heads start slatting me ! I have fair knowledge of electrical circuits and would only work at something that I'm confident in installing and straightforward. Each MCB is independent and don't have any shared neutrals. I did check the neutrals for a loose connection as arcing was my first thought. They seem all good but the busbar itself is slightly corroded .. the screws being the worst . I have now installed a new wire and bent the ends for better contact ( Original sparky had the two neutrals in one screw , not sure if that makes a difference ) Could slight corrosion cause this and if so why did the rest of them not do this ? The wire is 1.5 mm solid, Goes to the first led light and onto the next 7 lights at a distance of 30 metres ( 60 watt each ) Again I'm not a sparky ! If I have to pay for someone I will but I like learning the cause and solution of such problems !
As soon as a single puff of smoke came out of that box this video was completely justified. Many boxes would be so crammed with wires it would have immediately began melting other wires once the marret was gone.
Happend to me when i used my portabe car heater in an outside outlet. One of the electrical plug breaked of in the outlet when the heater was on. And caused a fire. It took 7 seconds for the circuit breaker to cut the electricity from when the fire started.
The wire nut makes the twist, I have seen this when I do it, it is meant to tighten both connections; there is a metal cone inside that also shields both connections.
For starters, you must have a 20amp breaker to allow a hairdryer and toaster running together. Most breakers are 15 Amps - so we are already in an unusual situation. It's extremely rare for modern homes (in Canada) to be built with wood, instead they use gypsum boards and metal studs. The amount of saw dust (nice to see you put it in later) in your box would be inconceivable. In a rare wood home construction given the timing an electrician comes in to connect the wiring (after the wood work is done) and that the electric box is generally enclosed. He (or she) should be bright enough to wipe out any dust (especially saw dust) if it happens to be visible in the box. Lastly and most importantly your video has just shown that even after a series of almost impossible events, the flame goes no where other than the box.
I'll give the video creator the benefit of the doubt and assume he didn't have the drier on high setting to give a current pull of 14A just under the trip setting. As for construction, in Ontario at least, houses are still built using wood studs, though gypsum drywall has been a standard for at least 45 years or more. Hot connections can still cause fires. They discovered that during the brief period that they installed aluminum wiring. Here's a link of new construction with the studs exposed under unexpected circumstance. www.niagarathisweek.com/news-story/8373625-winds-knock-down-niagara-falls-homes-under-construction/
You seem to forget that here in Canada, there are more DIY people doing their own electrical with no experience in electrical, so this type of horrible wiring is common. Just because the fire didn't go any further in THIS situation does not mean that this type of bad wiring would not cause a fire in many homes. Drive anywhere were new homes are being build and all I see is wood studs used.
chud67bbc Huh? Did I not acknowledge that you can have wood studs but it is rare? As for DIY - hey I'm talking about the video case example. I think the lesson here is - use a steel case for your wire connections (especially if you have wood saw dust all over the place).
yes and no, since a gfi only detects current leakage to ground, it would only trip if a bare live conductor would touch either the bare ground or the box
If the circuit did not come into contact with metal box which is bonded to ground then yes. But both Arc fault Protection (AFCI) and Ground Fault Protection (GFCI) would great improve the chances of this not occurring.
The easiest way to tell if a connection is loose is to physically inspect it. Always make sure the circuit has been turned off at the panel box and then check each connection. Unfortunately most loose connections do not have any specific visual indicators. If you are concerned please contact a licensed electrician.
No, they don't, not when your limp wrist screws them on. You need to have a good twist in your conductors and secured using a screw connector otherwise you get a hot joint like in this video, and yes, Australian wiring rules call for equivalent insulation to be installed but I guess that's why our junction boxes don't catch fire when someone plugs a hair dryer in.
I had an outlet fire happen to me last winter back in 2016 in my bedroom at night. i was lucky i was still awake and my parents too. When the wires were loose and started the fire. Got it put out, turned the power off, then called the electrician, and got the wall cut open to replace the box and wires also had the electrician inspect the other outlets and none were loose but when it happened that was scary trust me .
i'd like to see some things like, Circuit Breaker, a video showing the poor connection made, wire type (brand) as well as awg, and finally i'd like to see an amp reading on the device.
Great video! 👍🏻This happened to me. Discovered it today on wiring to a wall thermostat while painting. Once this situation occurs, do I need to replace the line wire that overheated, meaning behind the junction box… and if so, from where… the previous box or service panel, one floor below? 🤷🏻♂️P.S.: Happy Holidays! Hope you’ve been well the past 7 years! 😉
That is why you twist your wires together before wire nutting them! Simply twisting a wire but on without twisting the wires together is asking for a problem.
Hi Andrew Nice Video to demonstrate the ignition by faulty circuit arrangement. Just want to know that how the wires are connected to cause the fault and why the Circuit breaker doesnt function well
The conductors were not mechanically connected together. We usually do this by twisting them together. The breaker did not trip because we never exceeded the maximum amount of current that the breaker is rated for. (15 amps). This type of breaker requires a large short circuit current to trip because the trip mechanism is mechanical not electronic like those found in a AFCI breaker.
If all wires are twisted together properly using your klines, which are electricians pliers and marrets are twisted on tell you see marret change color
Oh wow, I didn't even think of that. A toaster, (at least mine), pulls 12A and my hair dryer pulls 15A on high. A 15A breaker would trip after a minute or 2.....
That seems like an awful lot of smoke, probably enough to trigger a fire alarm before any actual flames took hold even if a person didn't notice the smoke first. You do still make a valid point with this though.
I’m fast asleep, toasting a bagel, and drying my hair.
a space heater can pull the watts.
or a pentium 4 computeer
For 9 minutes, simultaneously. Whilst removing the box cover and sprinkling some sawdust.
on a 15 amp 14-2 recepticle
Mark Jones hi fast asleep, toasting a bagel, and drying my hair.
I’m dad
Just a note from a 20 year residential electrician. First you nail up boxes. Then you drill holes to pass wire through. So, yeah, sawdust in boxes. Also, most problems I have ever seen are caused by arcing at a bad connection. Just think, an arc is used to melt steel together. always twist wires together before you wire nut them securely. I have been on service calls where the problem was a melted push-in connector, so they are not perfect. As far as loads go, most failures of this type I have seen were from running a portable electric heater. It does not even have to happen at the receptacle where the load is connected. If there is a bad connection at another device upstream it can happen there. Just my 4 cents worth.
Agree 100%
I ALWAYS, every time twist the conductors together evenly and tightly.
Always use the screw terminals on receptacles. (avoid the push in b.s)
In my experience the push in connectors don't stand up to any considerable electrical load, I don't like using them.
I agree with both comments. I just wanted to show a situation that could happen under worse case conditions. I didn't even use the stab-in part of the receptacle. I think I might for my next video.
Maybe melt the plug 😀
Wouldn't the circuit breaker cut-off the current if this happens?
indie209 only an arc fault circuit breaker is designed to detect these types of faults (arcs) the ontario electrical code requires afci breakers for all receptacle circuits in residential dwellings since 2013
The wire nuts are designed to make a perfect twist. Sometimes I'll use a wirenut just to pretwist a big bundle, if it looks stressed, then I'll throw it out and put a fresh one on. Think about twisting 6 wires with a Linesman plier... not going to look as good as a wirenut connection. I do get paranoid often though with larger wire groupings and back the wire nut off to be sure all conductors got a good twist. But if it's 2 or 3 wires and I stripped the same amount of insulation off each wire, as long as all the conductors are lined up at the strip point, I know the wire nut will make a perfect connection. I generally grasp the wires about 3 inches away from where the nut is, and hold it firm so the twist doesn't migrate down the wires. Usually 9 twists does the trick.
This is exactly what happened to my sister's cabin. It was in escrow to be sold and they did a "last minute jury rigged fix". She left a heater plugged in while she took a day trip. Came back and it was totally destroyed (thankfully didn't take the forest with it!). Fire department reported cause was faulty wiring. The problem is real.
If it takes 9 minutes for your toaster to make toast, I'd get a new one.
oiljerk, ha ha. Yes, but it was just an example.
It could have easily been a space heater and a vacuum cleaner, both which could be running for over 10 minutes.
All while you were sleeping!!
@ Spaceman Rick Vacuum cleaner while your'e sleeping? Woah, show me that
Who uses a vacuum cleaner in their sleep?
Spaceman Rick I have never seen anybody sleep walk but if you are using your vacuum while you are asleep for over nine minutes I think you have a problem go a doctor
This conversation is hilarious!
This needs a few more amps and more sawdust.
and some gasoline
NO! It needs Photonicinduction!
fallenwout 😂
The sawdust comes from when the electricians are drilling through the studs. Happens way more often than you would think
@@4schitzangiggles what if I use aluminium studs like a normal person?
Now this is the type of video I’m looking for. I searched “All ways fires can start” but most results are videos showing burning houses, news stories, ect. I want to see more educational content on such an important topic!
Adding sawdust?? Why not gunpowder?
He really wanted that fire to start..
Why don't we just give it a hand grenade? *BOOM* SEEE!?!?! FAULTY WIRING!!!!
Faulty wiring after a grenade, more like what wiring after a grenade.
Just because sawdust from the wooden framed is more likely to be found inside this electrical box
Because saw dust is basically the same material your house is made of, dummy. Who builds a house using gunpowder?
Well I'll be SURE not to place sawdust in my boxes moving forward!
It will still catch fire with or without the sawdust. Plus there will be other debris and dust that will gather inside the box.
Also, make sure you don't use a toaster and hairdryer simultaneously, while you're asleep.
Nobody likes a dusty box.
i think its more of a comment on how comical it was that one minute there was no sawdust, and the next it was full of it.
winner!
Great video on how improper connections may result in a serious potentially life threatening situation. Thank you for sharing.
Thanks for getting me scared now. Guess I’ll shut off the main every night now.
It will save your electric bill some but it'll be more expensive replacing hot water and groceries all the time. Just let her RIP and unplug unnecessary stuff. Only thing needing continuous current is water heater (if electric), fridge/freezer and HVAC if you have central heat/air. Though I wouldn't wear out plugs/outlets to your large appliances if you don't have to lol. More trouble than it's all worth really.
I almost had a fire today. The power cable for my CCTV wire melted apart halfway down the wire until the pieces were in two. I only noticed it because I saw an orange glow on the side of my desk. The thing is, I wouldn't normally be home when I discovered it so it might've been a different story :/
This is exactly what is happening to me, so thankful I was awake. I'm wondering how it could get fixed,any ideas?
I suffered a similar problem a while ago: I had a freezer and a microwave on a power bar, somebody plugged and unplugged the microwave and in doing so, loosened the bar's plug on the outlet.
the freezer remained plugged onto the extension, and worked out as usual over night.
at some point, the arc between the outlet and the plug melted the plug's own frame, loosening it even more, until it melted the wire inside the plug, and the wires shorted out.
I heard the breaker pop downstairs and went looking, and nothing seemed out of place, no burns anywhere, no appliances shorted out, nothing.
reset the breaker, plugged everything back in, and when I grabbed the extension cord, I noticed the plug had melted.
taking it apart, I saw the interior all burned up.
fortunately, the breakers had been changed a while back, replacing the old ones which were almost 30 years old.
I doubt those old breakers would have popped.
Part of your issue to start with was having it plugged into a power bar! High-current items, such as anything with a motor, fan, or heater or high - voltage transformer, such as in a microwave, should be plugged directly into the wall. Of course, in the case of in the video, it wouldn't have mattered, but, still, always plug high-current stuff into the wall directly.
@@EphemeralProductions I can't remember the details of it anymore, but the microwave was usually plugged directly onto the outlet.
it had been like that for years, even though the microwave is rarely used, and often left unplugged.
it was because we moved the microwave onto a support rig that an extension was needed, and the only place to plug it on to, was the freezer's outlet, so we moved both to the extension.
not my problem anymore.... I fixed the broken plug, set it right, and went about my business.
if it pops again, it can burn the house down for all I care... I won't fight stupidity.
This is why I never store my sawdust in my device boxes. I do store my grill lighters there though and so far no probs.
Nice demonstration and very well explained. It's scary to think this could be happing inside your walls. I've gone over and checked almost every outlet, switch and junction box that I could find in my house to try to prevent shit like this from happening.
You should clean out the piles of sawdust at least once a month.
@@gatewaysolo104 Haha, thank you I chuckled at this one imagining a continuous stream of sawdust after construction is complete (like it's just raining).
This a fantastic video to show how electrical boxes are designed to prevent fires despite loose wires.... and saw dust. Thanks!
Excellent video. I have photos of a couple boxes where this has happened. After the plastic melted the circuit operated just fine yet until some type of vibration would cause the now exposed wire to contact the metal box and trip the breaker.
About 2 years ago when I worked for Palmer Foods in the frozen food section this is what started a fire the fire was burning inside the freezer and in area of which no one could see when you started smelling smoke but we couldn't figure out where it was coming from due to the ventilation system later we found out that there had been an electrical fault and the exact way that you demonstrated inside the freezer motor housing what's completely inaccessible.
You lost me when you added the sawdust.
Hire a better electrician then.
Check any woodworking shop and you will find sawdust in all electrical boxes and gear. All electrical products need maintenance, for a long time it has been install and forget it.
I guess the sawdust didn't start a fire because he ended the video.
Dust gets in the boxes and builds up over time. The sawdust isn't unrealistic. This scenario does happen. Most of the time the box contains the fire and it doesn't burn down the house. All connections need to be inside a box. My house has a few connections that aren't but it's old knob and tube wiring, wrapped, soldered, and sleeved.
he should have lost you at loose wire nut, as a good electrician or even competent handyman wouldn't have done that...
for the record... old homes acquire dust and bugs in their outlet and switch boxes.
WOW, Thats Crazy. Now im Scared of Bagels and Hairdryers Now
Light switch makes buzzing/humming noise when on, no noise when off. Do I need to fix it right away ? Any danger if I just leave it off?
When you turned the toaster on, you could hear the RPM of the hair dryer drop.
That's kinda why when I move into a new house, or add an outlet, I plug in an extension cord, and add some high load devices to that.
Then I grab a multimeter and check the voltage on the extension cord before and after turning the load on..
Voltage going down with the device on = check what's wrong.
It might not catch everything, but it sure has pointed me towards some crappy wiring in houses..
Great video that shows the importance of correctly making connections.
This is a good demonstration. Thanks for taking the time to make this video. In a metal box its not so bad but in a plastic box it could easily be worse. Especially if it burns into an attic or if its in a kitchen fan or receptacle where there sometimes is cooking grease accumulations. There is often wood debris in boxes from construction or infiltration afterwards.
francis white
Thank you for the comment. It has always been my intent to demonstrate the results of faulty workmanship.
"An Arc Fault Circuit Interrupter would have tripped the circuit right away"
Doubt it. They claim to but they've failed a lot of practical tests for series arcs.
Good thing I don't leave the toaster and the hair dryer running while I'm asleep.
If you store kerosene and leaves inside your electrical boxes the way most folks do then you're in for a big surprise.
What's a marret ? Looked like a wire nut to me.
Farmer Dave - yeah like a horrible cheap as fuck wire nut.
It's a brand name turned colloquial term for wire nuts in Canada, kind of a nationalist thing as they were invented by a Canadian Scottsman by the name of William P. Marr in 1914 though only patented in the 30s
Farmer Dave 😆
It’s a wire nut brand
What is a butt connector, same thing?
Plot twist this is a video of how to boil water with a loose wire!!!
Great demonstration! Give it time, dust actually collects in switch and outlet boxes. The dust provides the fuel for the arc. Here's some info. Screws on outlets and switches actually loosen up over time. Creating loose connections.
The same can happen when aluminum and copper wires are twisted together and capped using a wirenut. I had happen at my parents house. The house built in 1963. The was wired by an electrician. I'm guessing at that time, there was no clear understanding about copper and aluminum creating electrical issues.
Did you get your morning bagel?
dmc16336 this was my first question as well.my next question was how the flame burnt out or if it would have burnt out at all
Nope, but thanks for asking. Had to stop at Tim Horton's on the way to work. LOL
Great video! How does this work on hardwired dishwasher with not breaker?
2 -- 15 amp devices in a 15 amp socket. You have a circuit breaker issue.
Stephen Wissel he said they were drawing 14A total
The current of the receptacle was maintained at 14 amps. If you review the video I mention that.
A 15 amp break can be loaded to 80% of it's rating when the loads are continuous. I set the video up to demonstrate that the circuit breaker will not trip if it in not overloaded.
You had said there's 14 amps of load in the video. Did you test this with an Arc fault breaker or just a standard breaker?
Does any body pay attention to anything they see, read or hear anymore? Re-watch the video, this time pay attention.
Stephen, I hope your not an electrician.
Scott, he clearly states it is NOT an Arc-fault breaker.
Pay attention!
Spaceman Rick Spaceman Rick He says only that he is using a standard breaker and that the circuit is wired according to the CEC. Where I'm from standard just implies it's single pole. I need to ask for a non-AFCI explicitly, hence me asking for clarification. No need to be rude.
I live at apartments in San Antonio Texas 2017. I just had a San Antonio Housing Authority inspection that passed the kitchen having no GFCI except for one electrical outlet. The rules in 2014 were that all the kitchen is to have GFCI. Also, in this apartment are several electrical outlets that are loose. The plugs fall out and the electrical testing device I just bought says the grounding is shaky or lacking on several. I had surge protectors on 2 of these and then I noticed lights crackling and blinking and then the surge protectors stopped working completely.
I wrote a work order July 5th for these problems, but so far no one has showed up to fix this. The apartment manager said that the SAHA would have to show up again to inspect again before these problems are fixed by the apartments. But when I call the several inspection managers at SAHA, they do not call me back. Today is the 15th.
Why do these apartments--Arriba apartments, 5200 Blanco--not fix these electrical issues whether or not SAHA inspects or not? Loose electrical outlets lead to fires, right?
So I immediately bought rental insurance for this apartment because I am thinking that all of these apartments are having these same problems.
Does the wire nut itself cause arcing or does only the conductive wires cause the arcing?
Hey man idk why my light and my bathroom light went out idk what kinda problem that must be any idea ?
wait, what did you say can prevent it again?
35 year Red Seal Electrician, great video Andrew. I have seen this probably over a thousand times.Loose connections are very common. In many cases the electrician or handyman thinks the connection is good because the wire connector gets tight, but in many cases, especially with multiple wires in the connection it is very common for one of the wires to back out of the connection unnoticed and presents a loose connection and a fire hazard. Now, as for all your smart ass comments boys. Women plug in the curling iron to heat it up for several minutes then plug in there hairdryer and go for several more minutes. More than enough to present this exact situation Andrew has shown here.want another one boys and this is usually YOU. You plug in two car block heaters in the winter to one outlet or two outlets on the same circuit and do the same thing. Lets see, space heaters going full out and then someone wants to vacuum and i could go on and on. Keep up the greats videos Andrew .CHEERS
Thank you for the kind comment. It is winter time where I live right now. Just fixed a junction box that was used to splice car plug branch cct's. Box was way too full like 30 wires in a 6x6x4 pvc box. All of the heat melted the pvc box. Made it easy to find the problem. My next video will be about multiple conductors all pulling 12 amps and the heat created.
Thanks again
interesting video. At 2:30ish ..when you were talking the LOAD was still on? thank you
When he showed the temperature on the device and it said 91 I was like," Oh 91 Fahrenheit? That's not TOO horrible-" then he said Celsius and I just about lost my jaw when it dropped to the core of the Earth. Getting that high in temp in mere minutes is honestly horrifying
I wanna bastardize this phrase. "Loose wires sink ships", "loose lips sink fires", I dunno. I'm not finding a creative funny enough one. Thank you a ton for this demonstration of loose wiring arcing. It's videos like these and the short circuited lithium 18650 videos that really make things real to some.
I've placed a small amount of a component of TNT in the device box....
😂😂😂
Andrew. Do you mean that standard breakers cannot stop this from happening?
Would turning the sockets off stop this ?
Happened to me today.... thanks god i was home and noticed the smell and smoke! I was on time, the wires were still in good condition. I replaced the connectors for WAGO 221 instead of these blue screw-on connectors.
In 2016 did Canada not require ground fault protected plugs on hairdryers?
In Norway residential code requires wiring to be mounted on the outside of walls so problems can be spotted.
That's why I just run the romex across the floor with wire nuts so I can see if anything is arcing or burning.
What you have said is clearly not true. Maybe in log cabins?
Honest question, how come with residential stuff , they use that type of ground?
I have a very stupid question to ask. And I apologize, I am not an electrician and I want to know. Can an outlet catch fire even if you don't have anything plugged into it? I know obviously if you but metal on the base were the outlets are it can if it is metal because it is still transferring the current. I just don't know if the metal could overheat if there was a wiring issue and still cause fire to happen.
Very helpful thank you. The commentary was also appreciated.
It would have been nice to see a clamp on amp meter to see loading while the fire condition was happening.
As a German, this looks like a horror film. Thank God we have dual training, DIN and TÜV. Thank you.
VDE ftw
For? This is a typical metal electrical box, or terminal box as you will, with convenient knock outs. I prefer it better than your typical German plastic boxes that break apart the moment I bump into it with falling wires everywhere that never gets fixed ever again (Too many houses I've been in Germany with situations like that). TUV isn't going to prevent any of this as they're just a certification lab. Meanwhile, these metal boxes are all over the place and outlasting the owners.
The only difference between this box and a typical terminal box in Germany, it looks prettier with a wago terminal connector. Doesn't look pretty after I bump into it with me knee however.
If YOU are overwhelmed with typical distributor or bifurcation doses in Germany, then you should really stick to the us-American handicraft solution for suicidal persons. But it's not our junction boxes :)
+/dev/random yea lets conveniently forget that one is conductive and the other is not. totally not the biggest risk factor with electrical installations.
The idiot said: that’s what grounds are for you can’t do that with a plastic box a metal box is safer when grounded
If the saw dust does not ignite, can I add a bit of alcohol to the whole thing and light it with a match? I think this would present a realistic scenario as I often have alcohol in my bathroom cupboard.
Just a question: here in the Netherlands it is not allowed loose wiring in the wall. Like the white wire coming from above in this video. We always have to use PVC conduits. I wonder why that is not the case in the US, Australia, etc.? I've seen a lot of people building walls from wood there and I think the changes are high that mice will nibble on the wires, causing electrical shorts and maybe fire as a result.
In Canada we are allowed to use cables inside of wood frame buildings. Mice are not as big of an issue as people driving nails in the wires after the house is finished. It is important to ensure that the conductors are properly spaced away from the edges of the wall to prevent this from happening. The biggest reason we don't install wires in conduits in Canada is the cost associated with it.
Thanks
20amp breaker and receptacle?
Sawdust is SOOO common inside of these things (I’m a GC so I see it all the time) lots of drywall as well, good additive👍🏼
did the circruit breaker eventually trip?
Won't sleep again tonight. Damn it!
Yeah I just have the hairdryer plugged next to a toaster and drying my hair while making bagels while sleeping.
Great educational tool; thank you.
Soon as he said Canadian electrical code I knew it would have an issue.
Care to explain?
@@mr.3phase228 Canadian fires burn hotter.
@@Arcanus31 Aussie fires burn the hottest tho
@@mr.3phase228 hmn good point. But still the man said Canadian code. Had he said Aussie code thaaaaan...
Thanks Andrew. Seeing is believing.
My daughter mentioned that it happened when she turned on the light switch in her dorm restroom. The spark almost burn her face had she not move fast enough. It also flamed after smoking. What can she do while waiting for an electrician to come check in two days time?
What would happen if I replace the sawdust with black powder?
Hey I was using my toaster one morning and nothing was burning in it but I smelt extremely strong burning candles could that have been the wiring
Also when I use my electric oven at times I smell matches but it needs to be cleaned so I’m assuming that smell is from the grease
You should have that looked at by a qualified individual.
is a bad outlet a fire risk if not using it?
Could be, if it comes between the fusebox and a socket you are using, depending on your wiring configuration.
My outlet once smoked whem i plugged in my AC and it scared me but i still use the outlet and it hasnt happened again but i pray it doesnt happen when im asleep because i sleep right next to it
Quit using it
dangit! where am i supposed to keep my saw dust now?
I am using 150 watts on four 1875 watt outlets in one room. That is a total of 600 watts. should I expect flashing and crackling LED bulbs on 2 of these outlets which were hooked up to new surge protectors? Or 4 incandescent bulbs in the bathroom to flash and then not work? Could be the switch hooked up to these outlets. Then these 2 outlets stop working, and show to my circuit tester open neutral. And then an outlet in the living room stops working all of this at the same time?
The owners to the apartments I live at say it is my fault that the outlets stopped working and the lights flashed and blinked. These owners did not tell me that these apartments were built in the 1974s with a good chance to have aluminum wiring. They did not tell me that there are loose outlets in all the apartments that could mean loose wires, loose screws or loose blades. Aren't the owners at fault completely if there is a fire at all? Am I not supposed to expect 1875 watts at each outlet as a part of my all bills paid rent lease?
I just unplugged all the wires from loose outlets in my apartment. Because I had to read about loose outlets on my own, I read that there is an excellent chance that using an appliance at a loose outlet can immediately start a small lightning bolt/arc to shoot through the walls.
To get heat like that you need sustained high impedance. It's not likely caused by a simple loose wire. What else was that marret covering?
Hair dryer will typically be plugged into a dedicated and protected BR circuit. Great demonstration though!
So even with the presence of combustable material such as sawdust this entire event didnt result in a full blown fire? It flamed up for a few seconds in the end but dissipated to ember glow.did the flame re emerge after cutting the video? Or was this hazard remedied by fire eetardent materials used in this experiment? I had witnessed soarking from an outlet and discovered a buried metal junction box with melted murretes that had an open hot wire to be the culprit but it did not result in an actual fire.is this possible?
If the load was allowed to continue the heat developed by the loose connection would have made it's way along the wires and eventually outside of the junction box. The surface temperature of the wire would be enough to cause ignition to some combustible materials. I didn't allow this to reach that point but I am currently working on a video that will demonstrate this and hope to upload it soon.
Thank you for the reply.
Can you deduce that there is a faulty connection if you plug in a heater into an outlet and the plug gets very hot after a few minutes?
That’s different, it just means you should replace the outlet because the contacts are loose
In Canada we are required now to use arc fault breakers on all receptacles. Perhaps excluding the vacuum or washer plug.
That is correct. This circuit was not AFCI protected because this installation was completed before that Code became required.
So wire splices with untaped wire nuts inside a metal socket box are normal in the Canadian electrical code? I don't know many electricians that would do things like that.. Maybe some DIYers or maintenance man but not a real electrician..
How can the insulation be smoking at 91°C?
I have 2 neutral wires burned at the busbar . My electrician installed the panel 15 years ago and it is only now I noticed as I was installing a new MCB for a Camera system ..... Yes yes I know I'm not supposed to be in there if I'm not qualified before all the spark heads start slatting me ! I have fair knowledge of electrical circuits and would only work at something that I'm confident in installing and straightforward.
Each MCB is independent and don't have any shared neutrals. I did check the neutrals for a loose connection as arcing was my first thought.
They seem all good but the busbar itself is slightly corroded .. the screws being the worst . I have now installed a new wire and bent the ends for better contact ( Original sparky had the two neutrals in one screw , not sure if that makes a difference )
Could slight corrosion cause this and if so why did the rest of them not do this ?
The wire is 1.5 mm solid, Goes to the first led light and onto the next 7 lights at a distance of 30 metres ( 60 watt each )
Again I'm not a sparky ! If I have to pay for someone I will but I like learning the cause and solution of such problems !
Just wondering if you finally got your morning bagel ?
Nope :(
Whats a morette?
As soon as a single puff of smoke came out of that box this video was completely justified. Many boxes would be so crammed with wires it would have immediately began melting other wires once the marret was gone.
Happend to me when i used my portabe car heater in an outside outlet. One of the electrical plug breaked of in the outlet when the heater was on. And caused a fire. It took 7 seconds for the circuit breaker to cut the electricity from when the fire started.
And this is why you twist the wires *before* screwing on the wire nut.
Absolutely. All good electricians will do that. Unfortunately some homeowners do not.
Yes absolutely agree!!
That's actually the wrong way to do it. It specifically says not to do that on the box.
The wire nut makes the twist, I have seen this when I do it, it is meant to tighten both connections; there is a metal cone inside that also shields both connections.
Sean Place, I'm a 01 electrician in the U.S. I never pre-twist just turn the nut enough and it will do the same. I guess some people have weak wrist.
Only a Canadian would call a wire nut a "Marrette".
For starters, you must have a 20amp breaker to allow a hairdryer and toaster running together. Most breakers are 15 Amps - so we are already in an unusual situation. It's extremely rare for modern homes (in Canada) to be built with wood, instead they use gypsum boards and metal studs. The amount of saw dust (nice to see you put it in later) in your box would be inconceivable. In a rare wood home construction given the timing an electrician comes in to connect the wiring (after the wood work is done) and that the electric box is generally enclosed. He (or she) should be bright enough to wipe out any dust (especially saw dust) if it happens to be visible in the box. Lastly and most importantly your video has just shown that even after a series of almost impossible events, the flame goes no where other than the box.
I'll give the video creator the benefit of the doubt and assume he didn't have the drier on high setting to give a current pull of 14A just under the trip setting. As for construction, in Ontario at least, houses are still built using wood studs, though gypsum drywall has been a standard for at least 45 years or more. Hot connections can still cause fires. They discovered that during the brief period that they installed aluminum wiring. Here's a link of new construction with the studs exposed under unexpected circumstance. www.niagarathisweek.com/news-story/8373625-winds-knock-down-niagara-falls-homes-under-construction/
You seem to forget that here in Canada, there are more DIY people doing their own electrical with no experience in electrical, so this type of horrible wiring is common. Just because the fire didn't go any further in THIS situation does not mean that this type of bad wiring would not cause a fire in many homes. Drive anywhere were new homes are being build and all I see is wood studs used.
chud67bbc Huh? Did I not acknowledge that you can have wood studs but it is rare? As for DIY - hey I'm talking about the video case example. I think the lesson here is - use a steel case for your wire connections (especially if you have wood saw dust all over the place).
Niagara Mike really? Uhmm I believe it's against city code in Toronto - but older places have them for sure.
Could just be an FPE Breaker ;)
I never leave anything connected when am not using it besides the stove fridge.
Would this happen on a circuit which is protected by a gfci
yes and no, since a gfi only detects current leakage to ground, it would only trip if a bare live conductor would touch either the bare ground or the box
an AFCI breaker would stop this in its tracks, a GFCI probably wouldn't until the hot grounded out.
If the circuit did not come into contact with metal box which is bonded to ground then yes. But both Arc fault Protection (AFCI) and Ground Fault Protection (GFCI) would great improve the chances of this not occurring.
Scary but can you show what the loose connections look like inside? How would you know?
The easiest way to tell if a connection is loose is to physically inspect it. Always make sure the circuit has been turned off at the panel box and then check each connection. Unfortunately most loose connections do not have any specific visual indicators.
If you are concerned please contact a licensed electrician.
Looks to me like the junction box did its job nicely.
Can you do this same video with wagos and see if they do a better job
Those connections, terminals, bare wires looks terrifying for me as European electrician.
The bare copper is the ground.
I can understand that, it's obviously not gonna be live
I know what you mean, those wirenuts just seem dodgy to me.
zforce69 Wirenuts work fine. Are we supposed to weld the fucking thing together and put new insulation on it?
No, they don't, not when your limp wrist screws them on. You need to have a good twist in your conductors and secured using a screw connector otherwise you get a hot joint like in this video, and yes, Australian wiring rules call for equivalent insulation to be installed but I guess that's why our junction boxes don't catch fire when someone plugs a hair dryer in.
The moment I realise I nailed my wires straight to wood planks behind my drywall... Demn. From now on no hairdryer and toaster at the same time.
I had an outlet fire happen to me last winter back in 2016 in my bedroom at night. i was lucky i was still awake and my parents too. When the wires were loose and started the fire. Got it put out, turned the power off, then called the electrician, and got the wall cut open to replace the box and wires also had the electrician inspect the other outlets and none were loose but when it happened that was scary trust me .
i'd like to see some things like, Circuit Breaker, a video showing the poor connection made, wire type (brand) as well as awg, and finally i'd like to see an amp reading on the device.
ummm.... what if i don't have a wooden house and sockets aren't close to flamable things?
Great video! 👍🏻This happened to me. Discovered it today on wiring to a wall thermostat while painting. Once this situation occurs, do I need to replace the line wire that overheated, meaning behind the junction box… and if so, from where… the previous box or service panel, one floor below? 🤷🏻♂️P.S.: Happy Holidays! Hope you’ve been well the past 7 years! 😉
That is why you twist your wires together before wire nutting them! Simply twisting a wire but on without twisting the wires together is asking for a problem.
Agree!!
Normal except for the smoke and the associated electrical smell that comes with a loose connection. Good vid
Hi Andrew
Nice Video to demonstrate the ignition by faulty circuit arrangement.
Just want to know that how the wires are connected to cause the fault and why the Circuit breaker doesnt function well
The conductors were not mechanically connected together. We usually do this by twisting them together.
The breaker did not trip because we never exceeded the maximum amount of current that the breaker is rated for. (15 amps).
This type of breaker requires a large short circuit current to trip because the trip mechanism is mechanical not electronic like those found in a AFCI breaker.
If all wires are twisted together properly using your klines, which are electricians pliers and marrets are twisted on tell you see marret change color
Please see above. But I agree
How can a 15 amp circuit hold a toaster and a hairdryer??
Oh wow, I didn't even think of that. A toaster, (at least mine), pulls 12A and my hair dryer pulls 15A on high. A 15A breaker would trip after a minute or 2.....
That seems like an awful lot of smoke, probably enough to trigger a fire alarm before any actual flames took hold even if a person didn't notice the smoke first. You do still make a valid point with this though.
Normally it would all be inside the wall. So you wouldn't be able to see it.