Deeper down the rabbit hole: Behringer RD-9 vs Roland TR-909
Vložit
- čas přidán 29. 06. 2024
- Another video that examines the sounds of the Behringer RD-9 and the Roland TR-909 in unnecessary detail.
Links:
* All the sounds: soundcloud.com/regebro/rd-9-a...
* Maffez synth mods: maffez.com/
* The RD-9 out mod description: gearspace.com/board/showpost....
00:00 Introduction
00:49 Update on the output filters
01:09 Individual vs Main outputs
03:02 RD-9 vs TR-909
05:29 Snare + Handclap phasing
07:14 Outro - Zábava
This is really informative and very well presented. Thanks
wow, this kicks ass. very well done and incredibly useful demo and information. mad respect and thanks for the microelectronics detail. 🙏
i don't wish to catalyze a music tribe war, so i'll try to keep this balanced. some of their business choices have been - shall we say - questionable, and quality is highly variable, but there are certainly a handful of gems in their lineup.
when the td3 was teased, i impulse-preordered one thinking it would probably turn out to be vaporware, but if not it'd be fun and nostalgic to have around. lo and behold it just showed up more than a year later, after i nearly forgot about it.
when i opened the case to add ballast to hold it down, have to admit that i was pleasantly surprised with the guts. not too shabby if you're something of a tinkerer.
thanks again. sub'd!
Nice, informative and straight to the point. Not focusing on yourself and your “brand” just a good video about the gear that we are here for. I wish all synth CZcamsrs were like this. Well done
Good work man
t is is soooooo more fun than school lessons, i think i m gonna see it again for a 2nd time, very interesting and thanks for the very good tutorial/info!!
Great content, thanks!
Very good video!
I am impressed - AGAIN!! Because I love listening to pros who know their business AND can explain it in a way even complete amateurs like me do understand it. 😀👍
Nice job, i learnt some stuff there, appreciated.
very accurate ! i learn things here, thanks !
Thank you, very helpful video.
@5:58 I remember people complaining about phasing when the RD-9 came out. Same too on the Boutique TR-09 if I remember correctly. For decades, people ‘thought’ they ‘know’ how a real TR-909 ‘should’ sound, but that’s because they’ve only ever had sample packs (hence, no phasing). Only the lucky few with real 909’s knew that actually…. That’s how it is 😉
And all the originals 909's sounds not 100% same too, After all, you have a 20 percent component tolerance
I had a original TR 909 for 21 years, I got the RD9 I must say I am very impressed, BUT... my original 909 samples I took from the 909 before I sold it and loaded into a MPC... well thats a different level and alway was... :)
sampling a 909 is kinda senseless. first it's done by many there are 1.000.000 909 samples but more importantly you can not sample the fun of programming and tweaking
So you prefer digitally sampled 909 sounds above analogue (ok the cymbals are digital) RD-9? I don’t see it although I’m a fan of the MPC especially the Linn MPC’s.
Very, very interesting.
Thanks a lot for the video !!
Big salut from France
ViNZ.
Excellent video. Subbed.
I've got a newbie question: why is there a stereo output on the TR-909 ? Is there a way to pan the sounds going to the main stereo output on it? The RD-9 only has a mono main output. Thanks for sharing.
The 909 has a fixed panning you can't change. I find it very useful and almost always record it like that, usually with the kick and sometimes snare from the individual outs to add separate EQ and to have less reverb on the kick.
@@RegebroRepairs
In other words, there are sounds that are panned on the TR-909 ?
Hi, were you able to compare the stability and accuracy of using both rd9 and tr909 as a MIDI clock master?
Much appreciated
Kinda. But it turns out to have been very complicated.
Quick spoiler though: Midi isn't stable. 😀
@RegebroRepairs expected as much, I have the Roland MC909 and TR8S just in case..been sussing those ERM MIDI clock devices too .
Came across my original TR909 ver 1 service notes the other day..picked my TR909 in new condition from a garage sale in 1992 for $150..00 .only have the service notes now.
All the best
@@andrewverran3498 If you send no other midi data but midi clock, then dedicated clocks should be better, but then again, people have been using ordinary midi clock for decades now, I think it's probably good enough.
Ha, wow... I've never heard of the delay trick. Nice!. Also, you meming is on point :)
i have a 908 since almost 20 years... i also have a modded nava wich is amazing... i just got the rd-9 and let me tell you it sound like a 909 period.... the thing is you anyway rout the outs thru a US mackie or something that adds color... i use some pedals and a 16 channel us build mackie... it sounds like a 909 for like 300 bucks.
Yeah I also have an 908 😂
I like my 908, too. Big time :) But here, they are two machines actually. One from 1980 and the other from '83 🤩
@@wackerburg i waited 30 years to buy a 908 and when it came out i didn't want it because it's a one trick pony and i don't want to be a cookiecutter with a 908
How’s the quality?
Wasn’t that some kind of huge Peugeot Station Wagon 🤔 😂
I actually prefer the lower pitched rim shot. That would be a fun mod. Pitch adjustment for the RS.
My Rd-9 arrives this friday...sad to hear about the phase issue on the Rd-9 with the snare/clap
You can just record them separately if you don't want the phasing sound.
Thank you sir!
rd-8 first release had the reverse phase on the main (and some other small errors), it caused some issues. So they fixed it and kept the thing on the rd-9 too. hence the difference in the last part....
Hello Lennart,
I have an idea for a follow-up video and I am sure that many people could be interested in it because there is almost no information on the Internet on this topic!
The shuffle settings of the Tr909 (level 1 to 7) compared to the Rd9 (swing 50 - 75%)!
Level 1 of the Tr909 shuffle should correspond to 50%, i.e. be without shuffle.
What is the percentage of level 2 to 7?
Since you are the proud owner of both machines, I and many others would be very happy about a comparison test.
With this information it would be possible for every Rd9 user to program the machine true to the original!
Greetings from Germany
maybe they don't relate at all?
@@lownrgy Since the Roland designers of the Tr 909 took over (stole? ;) the idea of the shuffle from Roger Linn and his LM 1, I'm pretty sure that it also has the same values of the shuffle.
With the extension of a 74% shuffle.
The LM 1 has 50,54,58,62,66,70% shuffle.
The Shuffle Settings of the Tr 909 and Rd9:
1-50%
2-54%
3-58%
4-62%
5-66%
6-70%
7-74%
Incidentally, Roger Linn later developed the Dr660 drum machine for Roland/Boss, with which Squarepusher produced the great album The Big Loada (only with Boss Dr660 and Aka S950), so I could imagine that he would already advise Roland on the Tr 909 and act to the side. ;)
Greetings from Germany
@@mareikemacinnes7764 I would bet Linn shuffle and RD-9 shuffle dot relate either
@@lownrgy Bet lost, it is as I stated. Lennart should only confirm that in practice it is as theoretically suspected.
In the meantime, I have received this confirmation from the Behringer beta tester Honeysmack.
Greetings from Germany
@@mareikemacinnes7764 Beta who, Behringer has their own timing if you can't hear that you are the one who is lost
Hy Lennart ! I just received a brand new RD-9. I have plugged in on my regular sound monitoring, no effect, no nothing. On the pattern factory preset 7, I can clearly hear a 303 saturate sound on the high tom channel and also the high tom itself, like if there was a real analog 303 inside the machine... I don't know if my model is somewhat an easter egg OR if there is a hidden 303 somewhere inside ... but I would like to know what is your preset 7. Cheers. Stef
Well, the presets are just rhythms, the sound is controlled by the knobs. I'm not sure exactly what you mean with a 303 saturate sound, but neither the 303 not the 909 normally distort.
@@RegebroRepairs well. I will provide you with a video. there is clearly a bassline sound coming from my RD-9... very very strange (fYI i have already some roland gear, i'm an analog addict so trust me.. something's wrong here with this RD-9 :D)
@@stefpir Please do, I'd like to know what you mean. If it sounds very different from other RD-9's there might be something wrong. Then again, that might be cool. 🙂
@@RegebroRepairs Hy Lennart ! first of all i reiterate my congratulations to your new channel, i have watched all your videos and how lucky you are to have the "real" TR-909! today i have solved the mystery about this acid sound "à la TB-303". it is in fact a rimshot which in the pattern 7 of the machine i have just acquired is played in repeat note very quickly. if we slow down the rhythm to its minimum we can then hear distinctly the sound of several rimshot in a row. Crazy! See : czcams.com/users/clipUgkxQxiPi-S1Cf-QJ7Sfic3Eza6sR70sPttP
Beyond this problem, I asked myself: what exactly is this pattern? In any case, it cannot be a factory pattern. So I searched on the internet and I found the reset procedure and everything went back to normal. czcams.com/video/YP2avKNgMoE/video.html called "How to Factory Reset Behringer RD-8 (and fix the step repeat error)" => Factory reset => solved
@@stefpir It sounds like the memory has been corrupted in it, then, and one pattern has just has a high tempo and a long fill of rimshots.
You can do a lot of crazy things, check out the drums in Björk's song "Hunter" for example.
I was definitely lucky in that I encountered a cheap TR-909 in 1987 and was too stupid to understand that analog wasn't cool. I thought it sounded great, and I could afford it. It was bigger than a TR-707 and had higher numbers, so it had to be better, right? 🙂
I lost track after the Husky wearing a t-shirt.
Bra jobbat Lennart!
Då får du kolla den igen så får jag högre tittarsiffror. :-P
@@RegebroRepairs självklart
wait....so the RD-9 I ordered Yesterday, will have this Phase Issue? wtf 😞 thanks for showing this...
Yeah, but if you really want the RD-9 to behave like the TR-909 in that specific case, you can just invert the signal from the individual out in the DAW. Or even make a special reversing cable.
@@RegebroRepairs ok but when I record the Main Output - No Ind. Outs... I will have the Phase Issue in the Clap and Snr....
@errorkit Yes. That's by design, that's how the 909 works.
@@RegebroRepairs crazy thanks for that info!
Thank you. Might that phase inverse make sense in a mix?
Sometimes. Depends which parts share certain frequency bands in the audio spectrum. When dealing with snares on top of a bassdrum I often check to see if reversing the phase makes it sound better, sometimes it does. But that is already outside any machine or pluggin that makes the sound when I'm already in my DAW mixer. This technique goes for almost all (percussive) sounds. Especially when layering bassdrums.
Hey Lennart,
I reach out to you cause i have a problem with my rd-9 and want to know if you have noticed something similar :
Every recorded sound mostly high percussions have a super high noise in it that really comes in harsh when sounds get compressed …
and must be something in the signal chain - any idea what this might be ?!
No, I don't have that problem. I have no idea what could be the cause. Do you have an example?
@@RegebroRepairs i will upload some
examples when back to studio - and will give this comment section a push - would love to hear your opinion
Where are you from?
She will this be released/available????
When
The RD-9 is released but often sold out. But for example Thomann has it in stock right now if you are in Europe.
Anyone know a mod to sort out the lack of bass on the main out?
If my guess of what components are involved, then replacing C152 and C155 (on the 909) with just a wire should work.
I don't have an RD-9 schematic, so I don't know which components are there, and I assume they are surface mount, so replacing them would be more difficult. You would probably have to replace them with 0 ohm resistors of the same size.
Or, of course, you can just use a mixer. Having the snare and kick on separate outs to be able to have separate amounts of reverb and separate filtering is nice anyway.
the phase clap snare is a distinct sound of hard-core.
Does the RD9 have a midi instrument sequence track like the original 909?
No, sadly, it does not.
@@RegebroRepairs that’s a bummer. Thanks for the answer
@@lugo4905 Yeah, a weird way of writing bass lines so you don't get exactly what you expect would have been appreciated, but I can understand that they didn't bother to include that. 🙂
@@RegebroRepairs the instrument track worked perfectly for samplers . It was polyphonic so you could launch multiple samples. You could write an entire track the 909 and a good sampler.
So these sample sounds are made by the components and hardware? I thought they were little recordings
Yeah, they aren't samples, it's a bunch of analog circuitry. That's why they don't sound exactly like real drums.
@@RegebroRepairs that's bonkers, they just synthesize the sounds. Wow man, today I learned!
@@npc2071 Well, that's how you had to do it before 1980. And the 909 still did it in 1984, because memory chips were really expensive.
The cymbals on the 909 are samples, however. So the 909 is a bit of a compromise. :-)
Main output on the RD sounds a lot snappier than the individual on that snare example
(Sorry for the english) I love this little piece of dirty in the original TR 909, I think that exacly this caracteristic that make the TR 909 so great and iconic, but, Behringer always did a great work making good and cheapier hardware. In my cowntry all the hardwares are impressive expansive.
I actually mostly follow this channel for the face jokes.
It's a phase we all have to face while I'm battling my aphasia.
This is just skimming the surface, you need to go to the North Pole and compare them at -20C. Then 50C in death valley.
What do you mean "You people?"
TR909 is endlessly sexy. Mostly because of her large size.
OH YEAH EXACTLY
The kick from the rd9 sounds different from the 909.
There's two 909 and they all sound different to each other. That's the whole point, really. 😀
turn off ALL ASSIGNMENTS by holding TAP and clicking SEND
Ah, good to know.
Okay, 1 full note up, makes the job
Nice Video. Nice technical Skills. But....pleeeeease.....always these comparisons ?!? "There is a little Click,Snipp,Snapp above 5khz in the Blablablabla"
In the whole Context of a Track, nobody hear the Difference. I really LOVE the Original 909. But buying a Original for 6000 Bucks and more...I dont know....
But - Nice Video.
That's the whole point. People are always doing these comparisons, but badly. So someone had to do it properly. Conclusion: Get an RD-9.
audiophiles.....just make MUSIC
stop comparing menial details please.
Audiophiles don't measure. They opine. But you do have a good point otherwise. 😀
i;m not trying to be funny here... but why not jut dowload some fire 909 samples (like goldbaby) running through amazing gear and then playing them on a separate drum machine/sample? i don't get why you would pay 350 for a shittier version of the 909 ESPECIALLY WITH that noticeable of a different kick and bottom end... can someone plz chime in?
You can't tweak the sounds live with samples.
czcams.com/video/dn_Vu4SpUXM/video.html
The RD9 is in many ways a better 909. It also got the sound spot on.
@@RegebroRepairs lolol. dude the kick sounds like shit. sounds like it has a high pass filter on it lol. not a chance
Came just out of interest of the sounds - stayed for the meme avalanche 👌