Getting To The Bottom Of Elmax Knife Steel: Steel Snobs Episode 8
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- čas přidán 3. 06. 2024
- In todays episode of Steel Snobs we check out long time super stainless steel Elmax - this was a highly requested episode and so we pulled out the stops and compared real world cut test data to knife steel property ratings to get a full picture of what Elmax is capable of. Links to resources below.
www.knifesteelnerds.com
Cut test data - / @cedricada
Contact: Rollshambo.edc@gmail.com
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This is your second video on knife steels that I've watched. You're doing a bang-up job. I have roughly a 400-knife collection, which I'm getting ready to sell. Maybe. Probably not--I've been threatening that for a long time while the collection continues to grow, of course. I digress. I said that to offer evidence that I've been around for a while and I've handled a ton of knives. Nonetheless, I am consistently learning from your videos more about what I already own and more about what I want to own,and why. Thank you and carry on. You've got a big, influential channel in the making.
Thanks for the kind words! I've got big plans for the future of the channel but also the future of the steel snobs series which is both the most difficult and time consuming content I make, but also the most enjoyable. Comments like this continue to fuel the fire behind it, thank you🍻
Love Elmax!!!!
Elmax has a lot of mystique in my mind, for some reason. I think the early controversy and probably the cool name contributed to that idea. Love me a new episode of steel snobs!
Great video, very interesting. I'll be waiting for the next video in the series.
Its in the works! Stay tuned
I’m a big fan of elmax! Thanks for the video Roll
You and me both!
Good vid
Good video Roll. I love Elmax. I have 4 knives with this steel. Keep up the good work.
My first Elmax blade will be the Ankylo. Doddy’s video on it was pretty impressive. The lock is for sure strong!
RSB whatba great video🎉
Thank you for doing Elmax Roll 🤟🏽
THANKS!! This is some of my fav content. It's comprehensive without being all in the weeds. I can actually retain some of it. 🤪🤣 Seriously ya do damn good work.
Pete from C&A needs to add Thousands behind the edge and what grit/polish micron the edge has to his data. Also his sample size is small. A much better sample size would be at least 10 for each steel and of the same knife, the only downside is it is expensive to buy 10 of the same knife for many people. That is also the downside of many people’s opinions and experiences when cutting, they may have multiple knives of the same steel, but not multiple of those knives.
That extra info would be ideal in a perfect world. It would also be expensive. When I was researching elmax I came across very few sources of information on actual cut tests that were catalogued though so Pete still gets a gold star for doing something 😂
@@Rollshambo I totally agree, having data still is better than nothing. Pete, stassa and Doody are currently my favorite cut testers. Pete is just so much more real life yt.
This is supposed to be fun and interesting. If Shambo makes his videos dry, then he loses his audience. Great video, Shambo!
Thx for sharing Roll.
You bet
My ZT 0561 Hinderer is in the serial # 9,500 range and was supposed to be of the revised heat treatment/sharpening method range.
However I experienced rather average performance. Average edge holding yet it was a nightmare to sharpen on conventional stones.
After moving to diamond/ceramic stones and after 5 sharpenings, I finally got into good, un overheated steel and performance improved greatly.
IMO Elmax exhibits edge retention a bit better than CPM S30V but not quite as high as CPM-M4. I'd say it's right in between.
Chip resistance and toughness seems quite high and while not at M4 levels it does seem an improvement over S30V and like steels.
Corrosion protection seems quite good as well.
I've come to like it quite alot.
🖖
Love elmax
Thanks for sharing bro
It's a bit confusing, but hardness, rather than toughness, is the primary determinant of a blade's ability to hold up at a low edge angle. Originally I also thought that toughness was the main consideration, but Larrin himself set me straight on that. In other words, a soft but very tough edge won't hold up to a low angle, because the edge will just roll (no pun intended) when force is applied. On the other hand, toughness determines what happens when you apply a force that exceeds the edge's stability. If you have two steels of equal hardness, and one has high toughness and the other is more brittle, and you apply too much force, the tougher steel will dent or roll, while the less tough steel will chip or fracture. But the answer to, "which blade will handle a low angle better," is always, "the harder steel."
That said ... I like Elmax. 🙂
It's an interesting discussion point but also in the same data set magnacut mule team outperformed ZDP189 muleteam at a lower hrc which highlights the role toughness played in that direct comparison on the same knife model.. then again there are always variables that can't be accounted for whenever the human factor is involved. Also the test media being used is a factor as well..rope cut vs catra test etc etc
Edit: just checked the hrc/cut test list for the spyderco muleteams Cedric and Ada tested.. and magnacut at 62 hrc outperformed k390 at 64, zdp189 at 63 pd#1 at 63 and cpm 4v at 64...all of these had a 17 degree edge...this is the data I'm reviewing for my opinion btw..just wanted to offer context
Those Rockscale Design scales on your pm2 are 🔥 I have a set on my ad20.5 and absolutely love them! Btw love your steel snobs series!
Rockscale does a great job their scale work is some of the best I've experienced
@Rollshambo I couldn't agree more, Rolls! On their ad20.5 scales, they trim back around the shark lock to give you so much more access to it that it's not even funny
Great vid. I just saw that Vosteed Mini Psyop in Elmax is $129. Hope to see a vid from you on that one. Thanks!
Also, a very well put together and informative video, as always!
Great video Roll! Appreciate it!🥷🏽🤙🏽
Nice! Thanks for doing Elmax!
Great information. I learned a bunch from this one.
So did I, my favorite part of this series is the amount I learn in the process of making the videos..and the more I learn the more I realize how little I know...its a rabbit hole for sure😂
@@Rollshambo The best way to learn a subject is by teaching it. Your students will keep you honest.
Thanks again for your informative video! What about going to S30V? I feel like it’s been heavily under appreciated these couple of years!
I'm thinking when I do s30v it should be combined in a video about s35 and s45vn as well..the Christian reeve steel definitely deserves some attention
killer vid brother
Awesome video Roll
With K390 being affordable, I think it’s a great option. Good info, only have a pm2 Emerson with Elmax steel, and haven’t used it yet.
K390 is one of those steels that hasn't ended up on my desk yet, but it definitely needs to!
Great video i just found your channel and i am very impressed with your knowledge especially tackling the m390 topic. I do have one comment however regarding the ease of sharpening. I cant say that i agree with you that it is inversely related to wear resistance. From a point of how easy it is to remove material YES i found however, that rockwell hardness matters most but that the harder steels are actually easier sharpen as they dont seem to hold on to a burr for quite as long making them "easier" to sharpen at least for me even though it might take more passes.
Hey welcome in and thanks for watching. The topic of sharpening ease can be a bit weird to navigate with the advances being made in knife sharpening tools and materials. Softer steels can get to a burr faster but can be more difficult to deburr as you mentioned although as someone who heavily supports the use of diamond stropping compound that's become less of an issue recently. On the flipside even high rockwell high wear resistant steels can be sharpened with minimal issue of using the right stone that utilizes diamond particles. I usually avoid it as a topic because of this but every time I do people ask why so the easiest way to explain it is that if something is wear resistant it will resist whatever your using to create the wear necessary to apex the edge more than a steel with low wear resistance...sorry for the rambling, thanks again for the kind words 🍻
@@Rollshambo Spot on I totally agree! I had a spyopera (made by lion steel) in m390 that was so soft I literally couldn't get it to even shave hair as even with diamond compound I couldn't get that burr off haha.. all the best from Austria!
Not difficult to sharpen more like time consuming to sharpen. Bevel size will determine how long it takes to sharpen.
Very timely vid thanks! I'm entering an 'edge retention mania' phase ;) Though my current target is probably the Spyderco Sage 5 in Maxamet, if I can afford it
ps. did I miss it or did you mention that the thickness of material behind the edge is also important (per Larrin)?
It was mentioned for sure, I was really excited this time around to combine the data from Cedric and Ada with Larrins steel ratings to give a better picture since Cedric and Ada have more data points that show us how important toughness and edge stability are at lower edge angles .
@@Rollshambo thanks - I was probably distracted thinking about sharp and shiny things ;)
Do S110v pleeeeeeeease!
👍😁👍💜👐
🍻🙌🔥🔥
where can I get elmax for under $100‽
The screenshots I shared during the episode that reflected knives with elmax under $100 were from blade hq
The name elmax has always made me think of a roided out red furry sesame street character
Sounds like a great movie, El-Madmax, Furry Road😂
If you can tell the difference between elmax and m390 I'll hand you a medal
Well the difference is that m390 has more chromium and vanadium and molybdenum resulting in better edge retention higher corrosion resistance and also because of the higher chromium content m390 takes on a deeper more mirror like polish...that is the difference..but that's like saying that there's no difference between 2 different pieces of steak cut from the same cow but with different fat contents
In my experience, my old elmax knives are actually heat treated right, and therefore perform. I have recent m398, m390, s90v, and magnacut that are just absolutely wasted materials. It really is just cheating the customer.
My elmax and n690 is from 10-15 years ago, and I think before companies realized that they could just make the steel softer and save money. I don't believe for a second that it is a decision to benefit the end user. Maybe for mass produced factory knives, the consideration is there. But I'm talking about $150 and up, which is not the average casual buyer. There is no excuse for underperformed steel in this market bracket, imho. Sorry for the rant.
I'll give you a real world example of Elmax. I had a small folder in elmax, and it performed well. Based off that, I had a knife maker in Ukraine make me a larger, fixie skinning knife in elmax, with a big belly and gut hook. I processed a whole deer with it, without sharpening or even having to struggle because my edge was going out. Elmax was absolutely head and shoulders above what was popular at the time. 1095, the 440s, maybe d2 and vg10? I think s30 was just starting its rise, but cost prohibitive. Elmax was what got me interested in the metallurgy of blade steels.
My god... only a hardcore knife nerd could possibly appreciate that Spyderco because to anyone else, it is ugly A.F.
I guess it's a good thing I buy knives based on what I like and not anyone else😂 I also remember when I used to think all spydercos were ugly but after buying one and using it my opinion changed..that said you could definitely say that I'm a hard-core knife nerd so I digress 🍻
@Rollshambo the old you was right... most Spydercos are ugly. I love my PM2... but it is ugly.
‘Super steels” are invented to separate fools and their money.
If you say so, thanks for watching
S110 is trash, trash I tell ya! S90v is where it's at.
I also prefer s90v!