Here Is What a Moral, Good, and Humble Leader Looks Like
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- čas přidán 8. 07. 2024
- George Gordon Meade, the West Point educated commander of the Union Army of the Potomac, is largely remembered for the perception that he failed to vigorously pursue Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee's Army of Northern Virginia after the Battle of Gettysburg, and also for flashes of hot temper. But beneath the hard exterior of the man nicknamed "The Old Snapping Turtle" is a humble and moral man. Here's two accounts that illustrate his essential goodness.
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meade doesn't get the credit for his brilliant performance at gettysburg.
Agreed, I ve always admired his no nonsense attitude and exquisite command of the English language. Ol snappin turtle , what a legend 🛹
@@Jeremyramone meade had sent scouts after lee and didn't like the look of it, and allowed the rebs to escape across the river. plus they were dealing with the aftermath and weren't in shape for another fight. he was far up lee's butt and knew exactly what he would do, aided by military intelligence, interviews of reb prisoners. he knew pickett was fresh and in the center.
Meade was the consummate tactical commander and Grant the consummate strategist; together they made a near perfect team!
In Philadelphia, where Meade retired, there was a white stone sign placed over his doorway reading “M E A D E” so that any Civil War veteran would know a warm welcome was always extended there.
He was described as ' an old goggle eyed snapping turtle' but he was a great leader.
Meade was heavily criticized (especially by Lincoln) for not pursuing Lee and trapping the ANV at the Potomac. Lincoln and other politicians who had never been in combat, or even seen the results of such combat did not understand. While Lee had lost (killed, wounded and missing) nearly 40% of his army, Meade had list about 23%. Today losses like that would cause the army to be pulled from combat for an extended period of rest, replacements, refit and training. Later in the war with improved replacement and logistics, Grant (with Meade still in army command) could do this. And remember, Lee himself said Meade would make no blunders on his front. Lee was correct
They did pursue the next day and it started raining HARD. Going up the Hagerstown Pass the Union lost 12,000 horses. Can you imagine that? There is a video on Lee's retreat from Gettysburg. At Gettysburg Lee was at his worst. The successful retreat was the best generating in the whole war.
I think this is a back-handed illustration of Grant's logistical genius. I have no criticism whatever of what Meade did after Gettysburg. It seemed completely consistent with what Lee, Hooker, Stonewall Jackson, or _fill in name here_ could have done.
The thing that Lincoln was looking for (and, fortunately, was available) was a guy who could reconstruct and reconstitute his army on the fly. If you look at Grant's battles, he seemed to do that to a greater or lesser extent regularly. I don't know if he would have been much better after Gettysburg, but even a little improvement in the pursuit might have gone a long way here.
Much has been made of Grant keeping at it (e.g. in Overland), but my reading of the situation is that a lot of that was simply Grant got his armies reorganized faster than anyone else. So, he was readier, faster than the other guys to start it all up again. He particularly did not do retreats to reorganize.
Being a veteran myself, I truly appreciate Gen. Meade’s acknowledgement of his subordinates, especially the common private. In my service as a Senior Enlisted in the USAF Security Forces, I put the mission first, and my troops next. Meade felt for his troops, and the mission he knew would cost many of his men’s lives, but his acknowledgement shows his thoughts were always on those 100,000 who had already given their last full measure of devotion.
This is the man who just may have done the most (as far as single battles go) to preserve the Union. No small accomplishment.
Excellent book by Kent Masterson Brown, an excellent historian
"Meade at Gettysburg"
Wonderful book on Meade's command decisions
(Meade born in Spain, a curious fact)
Not too long ago, I came across your videos, and I just have to let you know that I enjoy each and every one.
The little things, the small occurrences, bring history alive and show us today the lives of the person that served.
Thank You , And safe travels
Well done! Thank you. I remember reading that Meade was fluent in like, 5 languages?
I recall one of them was rather odd, like Swahili or something.
That’s my first thought when I think of Meade.
I participated in the huge 135 anniversary re-enactment as a mounted Federal cavalryman. I came away from that awesome experience having a much greater sympathy for General Meade. I was a healthy, 20th Century man with the full spectrum of vaccinations and living with all the advantages of modern healthcare, I was a physically fit, active horseman and yet in that heat, the bugs, the dirt, the humidity, the caked on wool uniform and all the exhausting labor of caring for the horses, maintenance of my equipment, my weapons and myself, together with all that running around in the heat while participating in battle reenactments, I was exhausted. I knew the heat was getting to me, so I stayed mounted while the guys on foot were dropping from heat exhaustion (especially the overweight Southern Boys) as if they had actually been shot. I had one heck of a time finding enough water for myself, the horses and to keep my canteen full and we had Army Water Buffaloes scattered throughout the camps, not just polluted and dry creeks. I can only imagine what kind of shape the men at the time would have been in. If, out of ego or political pressure or something equally stupid, Meade would have thrown his tired troops into what could have easily turned into a trap, if he got himself whipped and thus left Washington D.C. unprotected by no longer having an effective and organized fighting force to intervene, Meade would have earned more than just Lincoln's -- ah -- displeasure. As far as I'm concerned, 'he did well enough.'
We the people of 2024 could learn much from this man. His civility and humility are now in short supply.
Excellent insights that needed to be expressed. Great work.
Long study of the American Civil War (that is to say that every year since about 1960 I have read many books on the subject, not to assert any claim to be a scholar who does original work) has led to a general high regard for General George G. Meade. Some of that regard may stem from federal employment which entailed my going to an office at Fort George G. Meade for large parts of a thirty year career. Though General Meade did not live long enough to write a specific memoir, many of his letters have been published. A useful look at General Meade’s two years in command of the Army of the Potomac is available in the work of his volunteer aide Colonel Theodore Lyman. Lyman was a Boston Brahmin of the first water who became an honorary Army of the Potomac Kashatriya. A careful and copious diarist, Lyman published a very readable memoir titled 'Meade’s Headquarters 1863 - 1865.'
One might also consider General Thomas of the Western Theater. His valor at Chickamoge(?) and Chattanooga were exemplary.
I have always thought that despite their relationship being amiable, it was a slight for Grant not to have called for Meade at Appomattox, even if it meant keeping Lee waiting longer than he already had.
Thank you very much for these videos. I recently finished a book about the battle of Gettysburg and became intrigued by GG Meade. I've read both memoirs from Grant and Sherman. Are there any writings from Gen. Meade I might find?
After Gettysburg, Lincoln personally told Meade that he thought Meade's pursuit of Lee reminded him of an old woman shoeing a flock of geese across a river.
It's unfortunate that Meade is many times lost in the aftermath of Gettysburg. He is seen as being too new at command of the army to have been a major factor at Gettysburg, and a mere place holder until the arrival of Grant. His fate is to be the man who refused to follow up the Gettysburg victory, letting the weakened Army of N. Virginia escape South. As the Union army was as bloodied and exhausted as the Confederate army, Meade's pursuit would have hardly been a sure, or easy, victory.
Oh to have these Godly men, full of grace, kindness and when necessary fight ruthlessly to win battles for the Republic. But that time has passed. Good is now called evil by the left and evil is not only called good but is set to curriculum and taught in schools and children’s tv programming. How far we hav fallen in such a short time
I do remember reading about a bewildered private who accidentally bumped into Meade along a road during a long March. Meade drew his sword and tried to kill him. Luckily he missed, but not for lack of trying. I wonder what would have happened if he succeeded? Anyway, that's the kind of man he was. Would Grant or Lee have done that?
@@frankperkin124 highly unlikely that this happened as recorded. More likely he tried “Giving him the flat” where they basically whipped the person with the flat side of their sword, which was commonly used by officers against slackers but the intent was not to kill but get them moving.
@@dalemeade1 nope, he tried to run him through. He just missed.
I am one of the few who do not believe General Meade was a good army commander. Although I agree that General Meade, who had taken command only two or three days earlier, did a good job coordinating a defensive battle leveraging the advantage of interior lines. (Please note the ever-cautious General Meade did not even want to fight at Gettysburg. He had ordered General Reynolds to fall back to Pipe Creek.)
Here is my reasoning for believing General Meade was a poor army commander: General Meade, like General McClellan before him at Antietam, let a unique opportunity to slip through his fingers. In Bruce Cotton's Glory Road, page 330 (right after the repulse of Pickett's Charge), Catton wrote "Hancock was on a stretcher, dictating a note to Meade. He believed that a quick counterattack now would take the rebel army off balance and finish it, and he urged the men be sent forward without delay." Instead of showing strong and aggressive leadership, a killer instinct, General Meade allowed General Lee to escape which extended the war for almost two more years. In his presentation "General Lee and the Battle of Gettysburg," Allen Guelzo referred to Meade as "...a cautious soul...he was no Wellington saying up guards and at them..." I doubt very much that leaders like General Kearny and General Patton would have allowed the decimated rebel army to escape.
Futhermore, the pursuit was only necessary because Meade did not follow Hancock's advice to attack immediately (as Wellington did at Waterloo after the French Imperial Guard was repulsed by the British Foot Guards). General Meade had all kinds of excuses such as starving pack animals and horses, but he could have attacked. Instead he chose to set the record for the slowest pursuit. The starving pack animals are a reason to attack immediately not perform a slow pursuit in the rain over many days. And then he allowed the rebel army, temporarily blocked by the flooded Potomac river, to get across that river because he sat idle after catching up to him.
I am always surprised when historians overlook General Meade's series of uncoordinated attacks during the Overland Campaign. Especially his failure to make sure Emory Upton's significant breakthrough of the rebel lines was supported. General Meade's lack of good planning and oversight of his subordinates led directly to thousands of dead and wounded men and once again extended the war.
For those who disagree with me, and there are many, please provide examples of why I am wrong not unjust a statement that General Meade was great. I would love to be proven wrong so that I can stop hating on General Meade. It just seems that every CZcams video I watch about Gettysburg only includes vague statements about General Meade being underappreciated but fail to offer examples of his greatness beyond his fighting defensive battle to a stalemate. Yes, I wrote stalemate.
Karl
P.S.--Sorry for the long and annoying tirade.
Kar: I respectfully disagree. It is well known that President Lincoln placed General Meade in command of the Army of the Potomac just days before the Battle of Gettysburg began. What is less known, and perhaps less appreciated, is that accompanying Lincoln’s appointment order was a more specific set of orders from General in Chief Hallack. Hallack’s order required Meade to accomplish six things (A) covering Washington, (B )maneuver and (C) fight the invading ANV (D) cover (I)the Capital and also (II) Baltimore, as far as circumstances will admit (E) you will either anticipate him or arrive with him, so as to give him battle (F)You will keep me fully informed. General Meade accomplished all of General Hallack’s orders. On 4 July 1863, the AoP, while victorious, needed 1. To be reorganized due to the losses suffered in the command structure 2. To be resupplied with horses and mules to regain to regain full combat mobility 3. Needed to contend with heavy rains, muddy conditions and exhausted men. Meade didn’t ALLOW Lee and the ANV escape. Even in the face of the significant tactical and logistical difficulties the AoP DID mount a pursuit of the ANV. And while that pursuit wasn’t as successful as some arm chair politicians or later day writers or historians may have demanded, it was as successful as the existing circumstances allowed. Respectfully, W.S.
@@wmschooley1234 Thank you for the well thought out reply. I am aware of the orders to General Meade (from Hallack) that you explained so well. (Remember, General Grouchy famously followed his orders during the battle of Waterloo. Therefore, he failed to assess the NEW situation and march to Napoleons aid which cost Napoleon the victory.) IMO everything changed after Pickett was repulsed. An officer with almost 35 years of army experience should have seized the opportunity to crush the ANV.
After the battle but before the "pursuit," President Lincoln implored General Meade to attack saying that he (Lincoln) would take the blame for defeat and General Meade would receive all the credit for a victory. Still General Meade did not attack.
Assuming my bar is too high considering the circumstances General Meade found himself in at Gettysburg, what are your thoughts about General Meade's performance during the Overland campaign? Especially all those poorly coordinated attacks and unsupported breakthroughs, e.g., Emory's.
I believe General Meade was a very good division commander and a solid corps commander, but not a good army commander for a variety of reasons. The classic Peter Principle.
Thank you for your reply. Based on your feedback I will certainly soften my opinion of General Meade.
Karl
You present very compelling arguments to support your opinion! However, Mead when his back was against the wall at Gettysburg and he was forced to fight he did a good job in his defensive battle to save the Union army! Things are not always all or nothing as you seem to imply! Mead might have been better as a defensive general than an offensive general! In World War Two there were German generals who were chosen for their expertise in defense and there were German generals who were chosen because of their expertise in offense! So isn't it possible that Mead's strength was at defense and he was not so good at offense? The fantastic job that Mead did at the defense at Gettysburg makes me respect his defensive abilities! You might be right about his lack of offensive skills, but to trash Mead totally I feel is unwarranted!
Thank you for taking the time to reply. My intent is not to trash General Meade. Like I pointed out, he was fine as a division and corps commander. I just do not see him as a very good army commander. (Not many people are cut out to command an army.)
Lincoln, however, needed an aggressive offensive leader to invade the southern states and win the war. That’s why General Grant was brought east. Lincoln was certainly disappointed with Meade for the same reasons I mentioned. (I believe Lincoln is still angry with Meade.)😅
Just my, probably wrong, opinion since I was not there and have to rely on books and critical thinking.
I am sure Meade was a fine person. And his response to Grant about replacing him speaks volumes about his character.
What are your thoughts on Meade’s performance after Gettysburg? Particularly the Overland campaign.
Thanks again for your thoughts.
Karl
You make an intriguing case, certainly the overland campaign was rife with problems. However, I do think you cannot assume that an immediate counter-attack following "Pettigrew-Trimble-Prickett's charge would have been successful. Certainly, for a number of reasons, it was unlikely to be successful.
Still - thank you for a solid case. You've given me some food for thought.
I still can't stand Meade
Neither could Bobby Lee.
Why is that?