The Oath of Glory Paladin Build Guide
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- čas přidán 24. 07. 2024
- Let's do a 20 level Oath of Glory Paladin straight classed build today.
If you would like to see the completed character:
ddb.ac/characters/32080678/Ys...
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/ treantmonkstemple
Timestamps:
0:00 Intro
1:46 The Paladin and Multiclassing
4:22 Straight Paladin Builds
5:22 Creating the 1st level Oath of Glory Paladin
15:12 Levels 2-5
30:09 Mounted Combat in D&D and final analysis of levels 1-5
39:49 Levels 6-10
56:07 Levels 11-15
1:04:23 Levels 16-20
The Warlock Baseline for damage:
Warlock Baseline:
Lvl 1: 60% to hit, 5,85 Average Damage (Hex + EB)
Lvl 2: 60% to Hit, 7,65 Average Damage (The Warlock picks up Agonizing Blast)
Lvl 4: 60% to Hit, 8,25 Average Damage (ASI in Charisma)
Lvl 5: 60% to Hit, 16,5 Average Damage (EB scales up to 2 beams.)
Lvl 8: 60% to Hit, 17,7 Average Damage (ASI in Charisma)
Lvl 11: 60% to Hit, 27,15 Average Damage (EB scales up to 3 beams.)
Lvl 17: 60% to Hit, 35,4 Average Damage (EB scales up to 4 beams.)
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A math error occurred at the 20th level DPR calulation. When you use the Capstone, the DPR actually increases around 13-14 per round.
How well would a build like this work with a small pc and a medium mount?
@Tommy Alfonso Shoud be easier and cheaper to ask your girlfriend instagram password ;)
Doesn't Aura of Vitality (etc...) ALSO effect your mount by RAW? Effectively causing two aura's of vitality you and mount respectively?
@@sphinx19l It targets people in the aura, not just you, so it cannot be shared in the same way as Death Ward and Haste.
@@SamFinklestein Thanks
The only problem with Treantmonks build videos, is that every time it makes me want to try out the new character 😁
I’m wondering if he will do an Eloquence Bard build. I bet Unsettling Words makes you REALLY powerful. Double down on all those “save or suck” spells. A lot of those spells are amazing if they stick.
Sean Plunkett having seen unsettling words in action, i agree completely.
Same lol an my list is already very long 😅 😆
Thank you, Treantmonk.
I played D&D... scratch that. I played RPGs for a long, LONG time. But it wasn't until I did read your "God Wizard Guide" that I realized that there were another style of playing.
And believe me: I went from being told "Just cast your spell and buff me" or "You're just going to use the sword and miss. Pass!" to be the cornerstone of the group. Not because power, but because of STYLE.
So, thank you again, Treantmonk. For your lessons.
I love dueling fighting style polearm master builds.
It’s almost like two weapon fighting, except for more damage, reliable reaction attacks, AND you can wear a shield.
@sum body
It’s a legitimate strategy, and has already been errata’d to allow its expanded use to include a spear.
While I agree that it may sound absurd to attack with the opposing side of a spear or quarterstaff being utilized with one hand, you could describe the bonus action attack differently. Perhaps by swinging the spear sideways. This is supported by the 1d4 damage due being the equivalent of an improvised weapon, the feat is a tax that makes you better at it.
@@binolombardi I would count it as a slashing attack and say they just threw a quick cut. Seems simpler to me to narrate.
@@binolombardi The capped end of a spear can absolutely generate enough force to fracture a skull at several vulnerable places, even from a single handed attack. I like the trickiness of it, in terms of visually describing fights as well
The best thing about Aid is that even as it increases your max hit points by 5, it also gives you those 5 hit points immediately. Which, with a 30-foot range, makes it an available-earlier discount Mass Healing Word. Since they're not temporary hit points, they can be given to heal unconscious allies back up from 0 hit points.
For me, Oath of Glory was an immediate new favorite oath. The fluff is very flexible for character creation, even more than usual. Haste mixed with Find Steed is also nutty.
Level 5 is usually when melee characters feel like they’re in their prime, the fact that that’s your lowest point is crazy.
Level 6, if you a fighter, because of the extra ASI.
Part of what I love about this character is that grappling synergy. I imagine this character facing some kind of horrible beast whose claws rent his shield in twain. Not to be dissuaded, he just shucks the ruined shield, grabs the monster with his free hand, and keeps stabbing.
I may not always agree with your conclusions (mainly because our circles vary and therefore styles of play as well), but I still enjoy your videos! (Obligatory Land Druid builds request inserted here).
I would like to point out that picking Kobolt givs you the race feature Pack tactics which gives you advantage on all attack rolls made against an enemy when one of your allies are 5ft from the same enemy. Basically, constant advantage on attack rolls when riding your steed!
Which can be a medium mount, making it easier to use mounted combat in dungeons and other indoor spaces. The downside is having to wait until lvl 04 for the polearm master feat.
This video feels thoroughly well produced. The straight paladin build is given with a strong concept, in historical theme and effectiveness. Thanks for sharing!
Paladin is my favorite class to play. I like being able to attack with martial weapons when I am out of spells over cantrips.
That being said, I prefer to shield and sword paladin.
But your shield plus polearm master has changed my mind.
Spear & shield with PAM is aesthetically cool and works quite well. I especially like it for evil paladins using the Oath Breaker rules from the DMG, usually with a hexblade dip, though you'd need to be playing in the rare antihero campaign to make it fit.
But either way, spear & shield is cool, and I was very happy to see the PAM errata enabling the style back when it was first made official.
Malisteen oath breaker isn’t an anti hero really. It’s a straight up villain. It’s also the only subclass that says you need a dms permission to play. My dms all say no hexblade is cool tho
Spear and shield is the way to go for that Saint George smiting
Hey treeantmonk! Haven't watched the video yet, but I'm sure it's a banger like all your others. Your wizards guide completely changed the way I play d&d (: thanks for all the great content!
Thank you for making this video. I'm looking forward to playing my very 1st Paladin character. She will be named Gloria and be an Oath of Glory Paladin.
I love the idea of playing as Leonidas. Thanks for abgreat build guide.
Exactly the build I was thinking about. I'm excited about making a spear and shield fighter that's worth a damn. Looks like my next character!
Great video, really liked this build, now I want to play a character like this.
I absolutely love watching your build videos!
I know you have a distaste for the Monk class since it doesn't seem to be in the same tier as the rest of the classes, but I'd be curious to see how you would min/max one.
Would be interesting to see whether it can keep up with minimum damage curve. Especially if you picked what you consider to be the 'weakest' subclass. Maybe even a comparison of the build vs. the Treantmonk monk variant.
I asked him to do one a while ago and he said he is working on it but he hasn't managed to make a build that he is proud of.
@@daroxes6399 With multi class it's not too difficult, a Ranger, or Bloodhunter dip, can do a lot.
He has min maxed one. 2 levels of Warlock and 18 levels of Monk. Get the hex spell and agonizing blast. Max your Charisma as soon as possible. You will out preform any other monk (assuming your using standard array).
Oath of Glory's Peerless Athlete with Boots of Striding and Springing is just playing John Carter of Mars, which I am all about. Imagine a dragon keeping to the air just to have a man run and leap 60 feet up to you and knock you down!
Let me lawyer this up for you :)
“A controlled mount can move and act *EVEN ON* the turn that you mount it.”
Not “only” on, EVEN on. The word “only” is exclusive. The word “even” is inclusive. This reads to me that - it shares your initiative and it can move and act on your turn - EVEN on the turn that you mounted it.
The wording implies that the 'even on' sentence is adding on to something previously established. That only makes sense if the text previously established that the mount moves on the riders turn.... but the previous text asdolutely does not do that. It only makes the mount and rider have the same initiative, and the initiative rules are relatively clear on how initiative ties work, and they very much do not result in shared turns, something which exists nowhere else in the rules, which the rules in fact take great pains to avoid, so if shared turns really were the intention, that missing paragraph ecplaining how they work really should be there.
So there is clearly some sort of miscommunication in the rules. Either an entire sentence or more explaining how shared turns work has been mistakenly left out of the rules text, despite still being referenced directly by the 'even on the turn it is mounted' sentence, or that sentence itself is an error, and the implication of shared turns is itself a mistake.
In situations like this, where the rules seem to be contradictory and unclear, where taking one sentence literally would imply another sentence or even an entire paragraph of unspoken rules text to make sense, I think it's reasonable for a DM to look to see if there is pethaps commentary from the rules writers on the matter, looking for clearly stated RAI to fill in the lack of clarity in the RAW.
And, wouldn't you know it, there is clearly stated RAI to be found for this topic. You can find it here:
www.sageadvice.eu/2018/03/14/rider-on-controlled-mount-wants-to-attack-mid-move-do-rider-and-mount-share-one-turn/
Malisteen, to ME the wording (“even”) seems to imply “to include the round you mounted it, along with rounds you did not.”
But JC said: “A rider and a controlled mount have separate turns, but they have the same initiative, which means you decide which one goes first.”
Can’t I just say:
My turn: “Sean rides up to the enemy and attack it”
Horse’s turn: “Mr. Ed disengages and moves away”
?
@@Sean-fo8kg not by the SA ruling, in which the mount cannot move up until its turn, which is either before or after the rider's, but not both. Either the mount moves up to the enemy, ends its turn, then you attack, at which point the mount cannot disengage snd mobe further because it's not your mounts turn, or else you can attack something that was already adjacent to you, then after your turn your mount can disengage and move away, but if you habe the mount act second you better hope there are still enemies adjacent to you next round.
To be clear, i don't think the SA version of mounted combat is good, just that it's the closest to an official ruling that you're going to find, so a lot of players will be stuck with it.
A sage advice by Jeremy Crawford stated that the mount shares your initiative but can only move *before* or *after* your turn (you get to choose each turn) - but not "during" your turn. Meaning the mount has to do everything its turn involves before or after you have your turn. That means that - sadly - the "stop - attack - and go" strategy doesn't work.
@@Malisteen "I think it's reasonable for a DM to look to see if there is pethaps commentary from the rules writers on the matter, looking for clearly stated RAI to fill in the lack of clarity in the RAW." This is good advice, except you might want to watch this (I timed stamped it for you) where JC clarifies further: czcams.com/video/99tX6tmc73Q/video.html&t=1164
"It still has a turn, but it's turn basically overlaps with yours, so you act as a unit...so it's move takes place on your turn. It's move takes place on your turn....so the mount becomes a movement and action extension for the rider...on your turn...it's acting on your turn....It has it's own turn, but it overlaps and can move and act on your turn."
Was looking forward to seeing how you would do this, the subclass doesn't really fit into any of my campaigns currently so its not one I had put much thought into.
When discussing wrathful smite, it's worth calling out that frighten imposes disadvantage on ability checks, including the check to escape the effect of wrathful smite.
Great!! Hope that you can make soon one about the College of Eloquence. Thank you
I hadn't thought of combing find steed and aura of allacraty!
Thank you so much 🤩
I recently played a Dex based, whip-wielding glory paladin. With the bonus jump height from peerless athlete channel divinity I was able to divine smite an enemy flying 25 feet above the ground.
With the 10 foot range of oath of protection, I was able to perfectly fit in the middle of the formation, with a fighter in front of me and 2 casters behind me, with both able to benefit from the aura while having 2 martials between the enemy and the casters.
With the dueling fighting style, magic weapon spell from the subclass, and divine smite, the lower damage dice from the whip wasn’t much of a hindrance. Couple that with putting Dex as my highest ability score, light armor allowing me to use all of my Dex mod, and a shield, meaning my AC was near par for heavy armor paladins.
Quite a fun character to play. Try out a Dex whip paladin some time, I had a blast with it
Hey treantmonk loving the build writing this while watching I would love to see video builds on:
Best healer in the game-circle of dreams druid I'd love a god druid hybrid healer build as a great character to walk into games with (as I play a lot in different groups and in games shops)
Second I would love your take on making an extreme damage oath of conquest paladin for the games when you're told the dm is out to get you 😜
Love your content keep it up
The circle of shepherds druid is surprisingly crazy good at healing with the unicorn spirit totem. I’d love to see a build with that, personally! I made a character a year ago and the massive group healing carried us through nearly every encounter
Oath of glory is always my go to oath due to how flexible it can be, plus pairing it with divine soul aorcerer and you can spam guiding bolt when you need ranged options.
It's so trippy I'm coming across this video because I actually ended up making a build incredibly similar to this one (took aasimar instead v!human because of RP reasons, but we roll for stats so missing out on a feat doesn't hurt me so much and sometimes it's okay not to be perfectly optimal) . Definitely fun to be sure, a straight classed paladin might not be the best damage dealer, but they are incredibly flexible and fun to play. Hexblade dip so cheesy and feels like I have to fangle with a RPs reason for that too. I suppose if your DM is kind, your patron could be some sort of angelic guide, but I like the RP of the big and strong holy/legendary warrior a lot and not being necessarily tied to any sort of patron.
I LOVED this! I know it’s a fairly overrated oath, but I’d love to see your take on a vengeance Paladin!
I much prefer your single class build videos. Especially when they go over the Valkyrie style Paladin which is what I would build when playing one.
I would love to see an eloquence bard build, especially because I'm having a hard time choosing spells on it because of the ability to penalty enemies saving throw.
What spells did you end up choosing
I made a sorcadin off of this base (to level 8) and the satyr race. I went hex 4, eloquence 8 in addition to the glorydin. Satyr gets little move speed bonus and a jumping bonus, too, and builds on the Greek theme.
If crudeness is okay at your table, there are a lot of spear jokes available to an eloquent satyr glory paladin, let me tell you!
In later, pre-Roman Greece, the Kontos was used. The Kontos is basically a pike. How they used a pike from horseback efectively is still a puzzle.
Spear and board the way to go . :) We are SPARTA !!
Great video as usual :)
Is defensive a viable option if you want to boost your defense or is dueling just that much stronger considering the bonus attacks from PAM, haste, etc?
Really cool build! As much as I like multiclasing, seeing a single class build is pretty refreshing. I don't know if it's just me but I'm always afraid when casting haste, since if I lose the concentration I'll also be losing my turn as a side effect right? Though I suppose that's what War Caster is for anyway!
Would you please consider making an Ancients Paladin build? They are my favorite Paladins thematically but I feel like they aren't as powerful as other Oaths, since they don't get the better spells like Hunter's Mark, Spiritual Weapon or Haste like Conquest, Glory and Vengeance.
Ancients aura is ridiculously strong. Halving all spell damage in the paladin chasis is pretty much the only class feature they need to be good.
I love this build, so much so that I’m using it for the Dragon of Icespire campaign I’m in. Hopefully we’ll continue into Beyond Dragon of Icespire as well.
I just wish that the magic initiate feat allowed you to use your spell casting modifier instead of the spell casting modifier of the class you’re getting the magical spell from. If we could use our spell casting modifier then I would suggest getting Shillelagh. This class with a magical quarterstaff that uses a D8 instead of a D6 would be amazing… but according to D&D beyond you have to use your wisdom for it instead of charisma…. And for most Paladins wisdom is a dump stat. Oh well.
"You have an instinctive bond that allows you to fight as a seamless unit", also telepathic communication. I'd rule the spell Find Steed is the exception to the stupid mounted combat rules. Therefore the table should interpret the spell over the rule. It's unique to paladins, so just make it rock! i.e. fast furious and simple. Even extend it to rangers companions, but not druids summoned beasts. Once the mount has been cut down by NPC's, probably two rounds into the battle, it all becomes moot!
Would you recommend the same feats and ability score increases for any Paladin going to level 20? I'm a level 2 soon to be Oath of Vengeance Dragonborn Paladin. I use a longsword and shield w/ defense fighting style and I debate either boosting my str from 16 to 18, or boost my cha and con to 18 and 14 respectively, or taking the sentinel feat for my first asi.
Hey Treantmonk, quick question, I have an Oath of Ancients Paladin who is going Sword and Board (well quarterstaff and board) with polearm master as the bonus feat. Are there any big changes to the feat/ASI selections you would make going with that character instead of the Glory Paladin?
Before I go on my frothing tirade, kudos to Treantmonk for making a wonderful guide on how to play the new paladin kit in the theme of a legendary Greek warrior.
The designers can pound sand if they don't think cavalry can attack and race past their enemies in one fluid and devastating maneuver (and no you shouldn't need to perform Cossack trick riding to enable such a straightforward idea as "smash into the enemy as fast as possible and blow past them"). Forcing them to take both the braced spear (readied action to attack when the mount is within reach) and an opportunity attack on the way out is nonsense. Owning a horse was a status symbol not just because of the costs of taking care of one, but obviously because of the tremendous power they lent to the riders that trained with them their whole lives. I for one am not allowing team monster to walk all over mounted combat because the designers couldn't be bothered to give most monsters a meaningful ranged attack.
Great video as usual. Thank you for your time in doing them. What is the program you used for your map example? Or if anyone else knows the answer and can comment, it would be much appreciated.
Roll20
I know it’s wrong to bring in logic in a game like DnD, but I really don’t like polearmweapons like quaterstaff and spear being used one handed with pole arm master feat. How do you use the butt end effectively? Just seems so wrong to me :(
My own Glory Paladin is a very competitive Triton, also using a spear. No pole arm master feat though
You can always say that "in game" the bonus action attack is a third stab or a horizontal bash, just keep the damage type the same!
I always hated that line in the Polearm Master feat, conceptually, it also felt more like stabbing at them then thwacking them with the broad side of the spear head or a swing into a quick thrust with the quarterstaff.
I know its not "historically accurate" but fictional media is good enough for me. Watch Achilles fight Hector in the movie Troy. He lets loose a flurry strikes on Hector including a backswing of his spear and some fancy shield work as well. That more than enough for me.
@sum body still don’t like the thought of whacking with the buttend with a one handed spear attack
what is more optimized, sorcadin or hexadin? im Currently lvl 2 paladin and deciding to multiclass into hexblade or divine soul sorcerer.
I'm trying to decide between the dueling and protection fighting style, for my glory paladin.
Normally I would pick dueling, but aura of alacrity at lv7, would probly mean your gonna be within 5ft of our alleys anyways.
...
For my concept, I know I'm taking compelled-duel to tank, and find steed for travel.
...
Longsword, shield, and half plate for equipment.
I thought there was something about having to do all your action/activities before moving/using another creature even if things are simultaneous. So it’s ok to split your action/attacks with your own movement ... but you can’t let someone else intersperse with you. But maybe being a dependant mount fixes that?!
Yes, a controlled mount works that way.
The viridian condition ring add i got before this video was such a breath of fresh air compared to the normal adds i get on youtube. I won't be buying them any time soon, I've been using a digital tabletop due to plague, but still.
How much would it set the build back to take inspiring leader at lvl 1? And would doing so change any other decisions you make for the build? I mostly want it for rp purposes in combat due to my character's background, but I don't want to feel too weak.
Do you get to choose to use Glorious Defence before or after the attack roll has been established? because if it's after, surely the only time you'll use it will be when it successfully guarantees a miss and therefore an extra attack? I feel like I'm over complicating it and not understanding lmao
It's after the attack roll has been established. The ability specifies it occurs after a creature has been "hit by an attack" which requires the attack roll to have been established.
I'd be curious to hear your take on a dexterity-based (but still melee) paladin. The over-the-top moods of the eladrin seem like such a good match for the glory paladin that I've been trying to build one -- maybe with the Dual Wielding feat @L4 or L8? -- but I'm not so sure I can get it to make sense.
Spell component issues look like they may crop up, but if they do, I think War Caster at L4 would fix that. Of course, that means no Dual Wielder until L8.
Dual Wielding is bad in 5e because it doesn't double your attacks like in 3.X, it only adds one. Even in the 3.X days, treantmonk wrote extensively on why dual wielding is bad compared to using a greatsword, due to feat taxes; a penalty which is equally or even more harsh in 5e.
I know this is a year late, but my advice would be to rather go rapier + shield + duelling. You’ll need the bonus to armour class and the damage isn’t bad.
If you ignore theme is a shield + spear better than a halberd cause of the AC?
would love to see how you could optimize a dex paladin
I'm left wondering how big of an impact some +X magical weapons would have on this build's performance. I'm sure it would be significant.
It certainly would
PALADIN! Thank you sir, may I have some more?
Pretty interesting this idea of a baseline. I'd suggest you to make a video about what should be used as the baseline for each build. It's not easy to understand the values you show on your Paladin DPR. You mentioned you assumed one Attack of Opportunity per combat from Polearm Master, but does that count to your Paladin DPR? How?
By the way on your Warlock Baseline DPR video I mentioned a little error. Please check that.
Thanks for your content. Pretty interesting!
I assumed 4 combats of 4 rounds each, so for AoO, I calculated average damage then divided by 4.
I play mainly a paladin, but I couldn't resist and put 4 levels into a sorcerer... for the spell slots! I wanted to ask - at high levels, what would you use your 1st and 2nd level spell slots for, except for smiting? (If you smite only on crits... I dunno if I'm just so unlucky, but I did like under 10 crits on attack rolls in 17 levels of my character... I do roll nat 20 as often as anyone, it just all falls on ability checks and saving throws 😂)
The same as I would use them at lower levels. If I'm concentrating all the time, I would look more at the non-concentration options: Aid, lesser restoration, but with 1st level spells, less to use them on in-combat if I'm concentrating, so smite away.
Why does the paladin damage line lowers a bit between lvl 3 and 4? I understood why the base-line gets closer to the paladin line, but why does the paladin line it-self lowers?
The expected AC increases at certain levels, 4th is one of them. If you don't improve your primary ability score (or something else to do damage) it causes a small dip at 4.
What reference do you have for the airborne name, I mean hoplite is infantry in Greek... And the other two you shortly mentioned...
Hippeis - greek cavalry (literally translates to "cavalry")
Bellerophon - The greek hero who rode Pegasus.
an alternative of hexblade would be talking you Dm into handing you a belt of giant strength at the right levels
Have you looked at boons yet as I'm a dm weighing up if I could should grant them too my PCs
No, I haven't
I haven’t looked into them too much, but they do add a noticeable power increase to the characters for no drawback. This make encounter balancing a bit harder, as CRs (already a bit unreliable) become even more inaccurate.
My opinion: maybe try them in a one-shot or something, but I wouldn’t introduce them to a prolonged campaign without 2 or more one-shots’ worth of testing.
How would a 1 lvl dip into hexblade affect dps progression? Glory might be the easiest oath to be able to justify an warlock pact storywise, seeking power, glory, and whatnot
There's a mounted combat video on Dragon Talk with Jeremy Crawford.
czcams.com/video/99tX6tmc73Q/video.html. Basically, unless I missed something, the controlled mount goes on your turn.
I wonder how the 15th level reaction Glorious Defense would work with other abilities that can cause an attack to miss. Especially for an ally taking a hit, they could use the shield spell or a diviner could use portent... in either case this feature would be even more useful since the attack now missed giving you an attack.
It's too late to use Portent after the attack has been rolled.
@@thomaspeters8023 You're right, so just other reaction stuff like shield.
Glorious defense is going to come last.
Would you prefer to play a caster of your choice, but you have to cast daylight one combat every day at the start of the combat (and it's added to the spell list and automatically prepared) or play a monk? Hahaha
Very nice video and great graphs thank you!
Ugh, I don't want to choose.
Wow I'm in luck, I made an Oath of Heroism paladin and he's somewhat close to this. I made an aasimar and took mounted combat 4th level, and resilient strength at 8th to get it up to 16(too bad my dm thought slasher/peircer was OP). I think I need to commit the rest of the stat boosts to ch and str to get to 20 and 18 respectively so I don't think I will go with polearm master and warcaster. Instead I'm trying to build the character around using a lance while mounted, which wouldn't apply the polearm master, and sword on foot, since I'm playing him like a classic knight errant.
So overall not as powerful as your build but im happy enough with myself seeing the potential of advantage while mounted combined with crits on 19/20, which I suppose the oath of Glory misses out on. Frankly I think the heroism oath is better aside from the jump boost from the channel divinity.
Ooh, glory build, cool! I agree w/ you that it's not the strongest pally oath, but still far from bad. Getting ready to litigate the mounted combat rules again, though. :p
Your RAW interpretation is justifiable, but the refusal to so much as mention the Sage Advice ruling feels deceptive. When the rules as written are as awkward as this, IMO the "obvious" thing for your dm to do is run a google search to see if the rules writers have weighed in. Any that do so will find that they have, and most will use the ruling offered. As such, a great many players will be playing under the Sage Advice version of mounted combat.
Would you tell paladins that they can use great weapon fighting style to re-roll smite damage dice? Because unless I missed an errata, from pure RAW they absolutely can, and it's only a Sage Advice ruling that says otherwise. Yet ime that SA ruling is almost universally followed, including, if i remember correctly, in your own build guides?
Maybe I'm wrong there, but if I'm not, why does Sage Advice count there, taking precedence over a much more clear cut piece of rules text, and not in the murkier case of mounted combat?
Malisteen sage advice is rules as intended. Not only that but it’s a way as a dm that I can go, no that’s abusive. That way players don’t get mad at me they get mad at Crawford. It’s way easier. That’s why so many people listen
@@conradkorbol that's exactly what I'm trying to say. *A Lot* of DMs are going to default to an explicit source of RAI like Sage Advice when the RAW is awkward or unclear, as is the case with mounted combat. Treantmonk failing to address the existance of the Sage Advice ruling when saying what 'any reasonably dm' will rule feels deceptive.
I'm not saying the Sage Advice ruling is the only or even the best way to run mounted combat in 5e, but it is a ruling that a great many 'reasonable' DMs will land on, and one a great many players will thus have to live with. As such, it deserves to at least be considered in any online charop discussion of mounted characters & mounted combat that is sincerely aiming for general use applicability.
Malisteen maybe he didn’t know? I am not sure.
@@conradkorbol He's been linked it before, he just doesn't like it because the mechanical results are pretty awkward and nowhere near as strong. :p I don't like it either tbh, and use my own variant house rule for controlled mounts in my game (shared turns, but also shared action pool, and no restrictions on the mounts actions) But mounted combat is far from the only kind of awkward, not actually all that great bit of combat mechanics in 5e. One could just as easily point to two weapon fighting, or the beastmaster's animal companion.
There is definitely room for a 'this is how mounted combat *should* work houserule suggestion, similar to TM's suggested fixes for feats, classes, etc. But that's a different video from mounted build recommendations for the existing ruleset, which IMO need to at least discuss the SA ruling as it will be encountered by a great many players.
Change the spear/shield to a glaive, add a fantastic beard and you're basically Guan-Yu from Romance of the Three Kingdoms.
Level Up a 5e game from EN publishing has these mounted combat rules, simpler, slightly more powerful, easy to play. EASY!
Mounted Combat
A creature can ride on top of another creature at least one size larger than its own, provided the bigger creature can support its weight. Mounting or dismounting a creature costs half your movement and can be performed once per turn.
While you are mounted on a creature:
• You have half cover (+2 to AC, Dexterity
saving throws, and ability checks made to
hide) against melee attacks.
• You have advantage on ability checks to leap
off the creature you’re riding.
• If you are knocked prone, you make a DC 10
Dexterity saving throw or fall off prone in a
space adjacent to the creature you’re riding.
• If the creature you’re riding is knocked
prone, you can use your reaction to dismount
and land on your feet. Otherwise, you also
fall prone.
While you are being ridden by another creature:
• You have advantage on ability checks to
throw the creature riding you.
If you’re riding another creature that you have control of, you use its Speed instead of your own, and you and your mount share movement on your turn. Remember that mounting or dismounting
costs half your Speed when choosing to move after you’ve jumped onto or off the creature.
Chapter 8: Combat
A mounted creature under your control can take the Dash, Disengage, or Dodge action during your movement on your turn. Alternatively, you can use a bonus action to command the creature to make an ability check or take the Attack action (this does not include Multiattack). You can read more about these actions later in this chapter.
Please do a vengeance paladin build
dam Treant, you really are going all out on this Oath, why do you think this oath deserves so much dedication ? its not that flashy after all, but man you really did a great job ! thank you for your hardwork
I think that's the key: It's Not Flashy. Glory Paladin is just solid all around without a gimmick that hamstrings it as a class.
I struggle to reconcile the possibility of dipping Hexblade 1 for Shield (and other goodies) with your video on casting with your hands full. This is something that baffles me whenever I see people dipping one level of Hexblade, which is all the time.
Given that you need an arcane focus to cast Shield as a warlock spell and do not have a spare hand with weapon and shield out, how is this done? Do all of these builds take a Ruby of the War Mage (which is never mentioned)? Drop weapon every turn (seems insanely risky and no OAs)? Sheathe weapon (also no OAs and can only do this every other turn if you want to attack, sonce you can't both sheathe and draw)?
Sorry for the long post on a minor issue, but planning a similar character and feeling I've missed something obvious...
Shield has no material component, so you do not need a focus.
Aha, I was indeed missing something obvious!
Tbh though I don't see this rule being enforced a lot. I think most dms don't want to deal with spell focuses too much
"420ft of movment in one round, take that monks"
Wait, Holy weapon breaks haste. Both require concentration right?
Correct.
That is correct, the assumption is at level 17+ we are no longer using Haste (and this is reflected in the calculations)
@@TreantmonksTemple
Oh wow, that is impressive. I would consider using haste when you expend all the 5th level spell slots.
For me is crazy how many concentrations Spells a Paladin hase even if he only can use a single one at a time
A im currious how u would end up building a conquest paladin, im really doubting if i shouldn't start with upping cha first because its all about the fear effect.
Whats your opion?
Cha is definitely the primary score for a Conquest paladin. Also remember you will be using Spiritual weapon a lot with Conquest which is also based of Cha.
@@TreantmonksTemple
Thank u was doubting but i believe conquest paladin would play different from a normal paladin
@@ron.c.koster check out this thread on the giantitp forums for more suggestions on conqueror builds: forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?543427-The-Wall-of-Fear-A-Complete-Guide-to-the-Oath-of-Conquest
It's my favorite paladin subclass, though I disagree with TM on it being the strongest. There are a lot of demands on your very limited ASIs, even with a hexblade dip, and the need to frighten enemies for your defining feature to work runs into problems with sky high wisdom saves being quite common and several enemy types being immune completely. So you need to max cha as quickly as reasonable, and probably shore up your concentration too, which means your weapon attack stat lags behind unless you hex dip, and even then you don't really have room for damage boosting feats like PAM or GWM, plus you'll be spending at least dome spell slots on frighten effects instead of smites. As a result, your damage will lag noticeably behind other paladins, in exchange for strong but not especially reliable cc effects like wrathful smite or fear, which when combined with aura of conquest can dominate encounters if enemies fail their saves, but that do next to nothing or nothing at all if they pass.
Even so, it's great subclass. All of its subckass features are good, unlike most other paladin oaths which might have good oath spells but a disappointing aura, or good aura but bad channel divinities or do in. Oath of Conquest also inherently avoids some of the common paladin issues by encouraging you to spread your spell slots out over the course of the day instead of hoarding them for a critical encounter like more typical smite oriented paladins often do. That slot hording/smite spamming pattern can result in paladins that underperform in attrition fights so they can smite the boss monster off the table in a mere round or two. Mechanically this can be "optimal", but in practice it can make boring fights take longer than they need to and end fun climactic battles prematurely.
Conquerors instead are encouraged to spend slots on frighten effects in attrition fights, since those are the enemies most vulnerable to your aura of conquest, helping those fights end faster. Since you're already spreading your spells out through the day, you won't have the smites left over to nuke the boss at the end of the dungeon even if you wanted to, but your allies should have more resources left over thanks to your cc support in attrition fights, and even if the boss is immune to frighten and you don't have the juice to smite them to death, you do have slot-efficient fallback spells like Bless and Spiritual Weapon to ensure you can still vontribute, too.
When everything is working right, the Conqueror play style lets everyone in the party have fun letting loose in the tough battle, instead of hogging the limelight like a crit fishing PAM+GWM Avenger who burned five smites in two rounds, ending on a crit to drop the cool dragon or big story villain before they even get the chance to deliver their evil monologue. Don't get me wrong, that character is strong, and cool, and the first time that happens everyone is cheering. But by the third time it's happened it starts to be kind of anticlimactic, and your fellow pcs might start to grumble, especially if they norice that in regular fights against mobs of hobgoblins or whatever you mostly just generic attack and let other characters pull most of the weight, or if you drain more than your share of healing resources due to attracting a ton of aggro and not having invested much in defense.
I don't mean go overstate the problem, paladin base class features are good, and between lay on hands and extra attack/imprived diving smite most paladins are still pulling their weight even when they're not casting spells. But the anticlimax issue can be very real, and ime everything just runs more smoothly with a conqueror, provided the player isn't using the tenets of conquest as an excuse to act like a jerk.
...
Anyway, yeah, charisma is key, so a hexblade dip us well worth considering, though not mandatory. Shoring up your concentration with resilient, war caster, or a first level fighter dip is also important. Between those two priorities, you're not going to have a lot of ASIs to work with, so I'd avoid feat heavy combat styles and focus instead on generic sword & board tactics. At later levels conquest stays good, so you can stick with that. Alternatively, more hexblade levels for eventual short rest recharging Fear slots are good, or you could go with sorcerer as the heighten metamagic is helpful when trying to land frighten effects on late game monsters, most of which have great wisdom saves, spell resistance, or both. If you go sorcerer, you can either go divine soul to eventually pick up spirit guardians to help when enemies areimmune to fear, or shadow for the hound of ill omen as an extra way to debuff the saves of frighten vulnerable foes.
Again, though, plain old conquest paladin is fine. With generally good subclass featured and greater cha focus increasing the value of higher paladin spell levels, not to mention your frequent use of the Fear spell making aura if courage a real upgrade for you instead of the ribbon it s for other paladins, there's less pressure on the conqueror to multiclass out for the later parts of your build than there is for more typical paladins.
@@Malisteen thank u :)
@@ron.c.koster when you do have a spare asi, consider sentinel. It's not strictly necessary, especially if you've picked up warcaster and booming blade, but even so, by those levels more and more enemies will be difficult or impossible to frighten, and sentinel will give you an alternative tool to lock down enemies that's a lot more reliable than any opportunity attack, no matter how punishing.
Inspiring Leader and Alert are also fantastic, and imo somewhat underrated, feats for conquerors, though again your ASIs are so limited, even if you hex dip, that you might never get the opportunity to take them. Inspiring leader takes advantage of your high charusma and significantly shores up your entire party's hp reserves, which is a big part of what tanking is about. Alert takes your initiative from bad to decent (or from decent to great for dexy builds), which is a big deal for your lock down tanking roll. There is a huge difference between locking a bunch of enemies down before or after they've had a chance to surround and attavk your more vulnerable allies. It also prevents surprise, which is great for the same reason, especially as perception isn't a class skill for paladins. Ideally you should get it from your background or race, but sometimes there just isn't room.
Conversely, shield master is, imo, an overrated feat for conquerors. The boost to your otherwise probably lacking dexterity save stops it from being outright bad, and conquerors *do* like the shove maneuver, since creatures with zero speed can't stand from prone. But you can already shove if you want by giving up a regular attack out of your attack action. Doing so as a bonus action instead isn't worth the feat imo, not in such an asi starved build.
Best races are aasimar (especially fallen, but all are fantastic with a hex dip), half elf (especially half high elf variant with booming blade cantrip if you *aren't* multiclassing), winter eladrin (for the rare but imo underrated dex builds), triton (the strongest race for conquerors in maritime games), and, of course, variant human, which is great for any build but is especially strong here, given how asi starved oath of conquest is. A vuman conqueror can have resilient con right away, or even start with sentinel, which really helps out with tanking before you pick up aura of conquest.
Dragonborn is /good/, but while conquest is a top tier class builds for dragonborn, I wouldn't say dragonborn is a top tier race for conquerors. Unfortunately the Dragon Fear feat is kind of a trap, at least in point buy games, due to a combination of the cha boost not meshing properly with the racial bonus (max cha plus racial bonus is cha 16, so +1 from a half feat doesn't improve your stat bonus), and because the fear effect suffers from some anti-synergy with aura of conquest. AoC damages frightened enemies at the start of their turn, which gives them a new save against dragon fear, essentially giving enemies two chances to save out of the effect before it has any dignificant effect. Thematically, though, dragonborn are a good choice since npcs and fellow pcs are less likely to take offence to a dragonborn conqueror's imperious and domineering attitude since 'dragons just be like that'.
Zariel bloodline tieflings are also very good, and are about as strong a thematic fit as fallen aasimar. They're especially thematically compelling in descent to avernus games, though I don't exactly recommend conquest there due to how common spell resistamce is. Overall they're on par with or even slightly ahead of dragonborn, but still not quite even with the top tier choices mechanically.
If you want to play against type, Lightfoot Halflings (or mark of hospitality halflings if you're playing in Eberron) are actually surprisingly effective dexy Conquerors, if not quite on the same level as winter eladrin.
Apart from that, any race with a bonus to cha, strength, or dex can make for a decent conqueror in point buy games. In die rolled games, of course, how much you depend on racial stat bonuses depends entirely on how well you roll.
Inspiring Smite: It's an instant gym membership for your squishy casters.
This build makes a great case for a pure Glory Paladin! It may not be the “best” but at lvl20. you are rolling and all the “better classes” are missing once and you fly in on a Pegasus roll three D20 one misses and you say “Glory Glory I’m a paladin” and you inform them table you hit all three times. Then in the game day afternoon you do it again!
How bout a dex paladin build?
Excellent clarification on mounted combat. However, the mounting and dismounting strategy won't work since you can only do one per turn: "Once during your move, you can mount a creature that is within 5 feet of you or dismount". Might not be an issue since you can pull that off first turn and dive in second turn and by the third turn the enemy is probably dead already.
Interesting, missed that.
If you lose your concentration on Haste, your damage isn't level 8 versus baseline its zero for one round that combined with the 1st turn to set up. It absolutely kills your damage per round. If your DM hits you with magic missile and you lose concentration your party is in for a rough time. I enjoy your videos but I abhor the Haste spell cast by melee combatants even Eldritch Knights that likely have warcaster and Con proficiency. Ranged Horizon Walkers or EK's can make it work but even they have to worry about getting locked down by losing concentration.
The problem I have with almost all 5e build videos - either from Chris or elsewhere - is that they are multi-class Cross-stitch monstrosities that have no relationship to a character’s backstory or development. Seeing a “pure” class build is refreshing!
I mean that can be true, but it's up to you to put in the backstory. If you're a wizard and you just explain you learning new spells by saying oh I get two every level that's not a backstory. If you explain that you're researching and actively trying to decipher the keys to the universe and especially if the new spells fit your concept that's what makes it a good backstory. If I make a blaster I'm probably not going to pick up haste or slow for example. That being said some cross classes make sense for just your character getting stronger. If I'm a paladin that dips hexblade. Realistically your a paladin that's getting stronger with your melee and being able to cast a spell that allows you to do more melee damage to targets (hex). Chris talked about this before in another video
Since you're not aware of a particular character's backstory, it's extremely arrogant for you to make such assumptions. It is totally possible to make it compelling viable backstory for a creature no matter how many classes it has. The classes represent abilities, it's easy to leave a backstory in which you acquire more abilities...
To start with a warhorse has 60ft movement. 60 x 2 is 120. 120 x 3 is 360
Also, could you do a Quick Ranking of the Paladin Subclasses?
We know it's like
1 - Conquest
2 - ???
3 - ???
4 - ???/Glory
5 - Glory/???
6 - ???
7 - ???
8 - ???
But where are the remaining ones?
I haven't done a thorough comparison. Probably redemption at 8. Crown is better than it's reputation, it would be maybe 3rd or 4th. Vengeance is quite good, maybe 2nd or 3rd. Devotion really is campaign dependent, so I might put it lower.
@@TreantmonksTemple thanks for the reply! If you ever find some time to make a video on the Oaths It would be really amazing!
Imagine if you could figure out a decently written Gestalt with Glory and hexblade.
Wouldn't it make more sense to have your baseline as the x axis?
I don't think so. Higher damage should be higher on the graph right?
@@TreantmonksTemple well yes, but it makes it easier to see how well the build is doing at any point.
Just my preference though, it might scare people to see a damage dip.
Please do eloquence bard!
i think that at 18th level you could just max out charisma and hope for a belt fo giant
Oath of Glory wasn't popular? For me, it's exactly what I was looking for, to make my character concept!
(Also, being underpowered, makes it less likely for a D.M. to ban.)
Aura of life's final effect makes it an excellent spell. Anyone within 30' just doesn't worry about hit points at all, outside of losing 3 death saves in one round from damage.
"Twice as more." Giggle.
Saying that Oath of Alacrity is never going to help is just stupid. In that same situation, if those allies go before you they still have the extra speed to reach the opponents and attack. In the opposite situation, where all 3 of you are already in combat and one or both of them need to withdraw they now are more likely to get out of the range of the opponents movement. With the crazy movement you have and the ability to have your mount disengage, you could even break off from that combat to help the mage who just got ambushed from behind. Using one of your attacks to push the opponent away from the mage frees him up to move away 10' farther without having to use his action to disengage (you still have the rest of your attacks as well).
so what you’re saying is its a very situational aura. Got it.
doesn’t make it good
It's ashame they changed the capstone ability "Gloryhole"
With respect to whether or not a controlled mount acts on your turn, Jeremy Crawford addresses this quite clearly starting at minute 19 : 35 of his Sage Advice Video on Mounted Combat (czcams.com/video/99tX6tmc73Q/video.htmlm35s): "It's moving on your turn, so it's far easier for your character to coordinate with the mount... the beauty of it acting on your turn is that...the mount almost becomes a movement and action extension for the rider". Nowhere in the video does he qualify any of these statements by proclaiming that they only apply during rounds when you mount the creature. Please watch this video if you want to understand the designer's intent.
Interesting, I had this interview explained to me in a different way.
He put in half as much effort into the artificer Alchemist as you do this build video I bet you can build a very badass artificer
I mean... paladin is a significantly better class.
So your character concept involves a spear. Hellenic soldiers also frequently used a helm. So is your character concept someone who fights using a spear and magic helmet?
> Magic helmet?
Yes. Magic helmet. I'll give you a sample!
czcams.com/video/5kH0Bag0akc/video.html
you could do more damage with a lance. You can 1 hand a lance while mounted, and when you do it still do a d12 of damage
Nah... Spells are overrated. Of course I could expend my smite slot to cast some puny spell, but I would rather prefer to actually use my smitecasting ability as it was intended
Although I like the build, It feels bad that one has to consciously choose to be less optimal. Hex blade is too good, and it really irritates me to be pulled that way. Even this build designed to be effective single class would, in my opinion be stronger with hex blade. Anyone else annoyed by that thought?
The thing I dislike most about the Hexblade is that they don't even really need the ability to use charisma for weapon attacks. Pact of the blade warlocks are going to spend the vast majority of their spells slots for most of the game on Hex, AoA, Darkness, or Eldritch Smite. None of which are effected by your spell casting modifier. On the other hand it's so good on paladins or weapon bards that it almost feels like your using out on something if you don't take that hexblade dip.
@@ryanrindler1715 Now if there was only a feat that could do the same,
@@brettmajeske3525 can you fill me in?
@@einsibongo I was just musing. If there was a feat that allowed pallys and bards to use CHR for weapon attacks, it would solve the hexblade dip problem.