ROD ACTION vs. YOUTUBE 'EXPERTS'
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- čas přidán 24. 11. 2023
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What a great explanation for a newer fisherman trying to wade through all the mumbo jumbo. Would love to see more of these!!
This was incredibly informative. So many manufacturers and CZcamsrs gloss over these and use power and action interchangeably, it gets confusing. At least I know what to look for when I can hold a rod before buying it. Thanks for the explanations.
thank you sir!
I have recently found your channel, and it is like a breath of fresh air,, thank you so much for explaining things in a clear and straightforward way,,. I am just returning to fishing after many years, and all the new tackle and terminology is very confusing for an old (68) guy like me..
Thank you again, from England,, 👍🐟😊
68 is not old. You have 15 years of non stop fishing ahead of you. This terminology does not apply to England, i dont think. England uses the term Progressive, instead of Fast, and Parabolic instead of slow. And in England they dont offer garbage extra Progressive actions
Good video mate. In the 70's and early 80's i used to help my father make our rods. As beach fisherman here in Australia (and in South Africa) i think we all got a better understanding of rod action than fishermen today as we chose the blank for what we wanted and all the information was given. A 13 foot, 12 foot, or 11' 6" blank was either a 7 wrap, 5 wrap, or even 3 wrap (fibreglass that is) at the butt end and you were given the distribution of the amount of wraps down the blank as well as where the solid tip started. All this information was given on the blank (sticker on a Butterworth blank or painted on a Snyder glass blank) so you fully understood the distribution of stiffness along the length of rod. Rod manufacture and materials have changed but the principles that dictate action have not.
Now this makes sense. Great explanation. Thank you.
Victor thanks for the pleasurable video! Very nice explanation!
I appreciate your candor and attention to detail. That's why I try to absorb your content like a sponge. I'm fairly new to all the ins and outs of ultralight fishing even though I've been panfishing for quite some time. Keep the videos coming 👍👍
Thank you mr P! I appreciate that!
Ty for the fishing rod class. Great info. I appreciate it.
i appreciate your comment just the same sir!
Honest and clear video. the type of videos youtube needs but missing!
thank you sir : )
Your work is greatly appreciated. Love your xhannel
thank you for checking the link!
Wow, how about that for a thought.
Victor, you are a genius. I admire the detailed and articulated explanation, as always.
Thank you for publishing this.
thank you sir, appreciate taking the time to leave a comment on the first place, and even more for such nice words
Pretty Goddamn Good. Interesting videos like this makes me come back to this channel that I have been following for many years now. Thank you for all the content.
thank you sir!
Well done mate. This valuable information should open minds for better understanding for many fishing enthusiasts, maybe with exception of those "backyard experts" who know everything better.
Fantastic information.
Very well explained and very logical, thanks a lot Victor.
Best regards!
thank you sir!
Great video. Detailed and precise as usual.
On a side note, one aspect came to mind: slow recovery can be great for "keeping explosive fish on" during the fight, as the reaction time for the angler increases to not let the line go slack and the fish being able to shake out the bait on a slack line.
I agree! Slow Recovery actually makes casting with baitcaster MUCH easier, because it slings it SLOWER and u have more time to release 'on time' . Very good for teaching young kids! There is nothing scary about slow.
Great videos! Keep ‘em coming. I took a screen shot of that explanation. I’ve fished my whole life, have at least 50 rods, but didn’t quite know the definition of action. I do like fast action with bfs because I can cast light lures and still catch big bass. That statement makes much more sense after watching your video.
U made a good point. If u watch my video again u will hear i said that Fast scrion rods do have some utility, abd specifically being able to cast wider range of lures. The softer tip allows u to cast very light lures but u can still cast heavier lures or foght big fish. Just dont go XF :)
12 minutes in you give your preferred definition. I couldn't agree more. Thank you.
but if this is people's understanding about action, they would make very different choices when buying rods. Thank you for the comment!
Great explanation Vic. I never really thought of it from a recovery perspective but it makes total sense. I always views it as forgiveness. A moderate rod is more forgiving and a faster rod is less forgiving. But yes !!! Recovery is the key. But as u mentioned the weight lengths and thickness of these rods all play a role. And this conversation can even go deeper when people use mono vs flouro . If u go mono on a fast rod it’ll subtract the recovery. If you use flouro or braid on a moderate rod it’ll add to the recovery…. So there’s many avenues this can go. 👍🏼👍🏼
Don't go that deep. Do u want to cast with the entire rod or just the tip? Do u want to fight the fish or just with the tip? These are the only questions u want to answer.
You absolutely opened my eyes man. I always thought a fast action was more sensitive, but it makes complete sense now that you explained how the tip bending absorbs the feel, it seems so simple. It’s one of those “ Why didn’t I think of that?!” moments! I know my Ugly Stik GX2 with its moderate action helps a lot at keeping fish pinned during the fight vs a Lews fast action I also own, hooks tend to not get spat out as easily compared to the fast action. Thank you for this, now I’m looking for a moderate action rod besides my Ugly Stik!
thank you sir, for not being lazy and writing a nice comment!
Interesante, Victor. Gracias!!
de nada, senior!
Nice teaching video. Thank you I still use a quality fiberglass rod for my top water rods because of the inherently slower action....I get more hook ups with the slower reaction. I do use fast and X fast action on 7 1/2" -8 1/2" rods where we toss 1/32 or 1/16 micro jigs on ultra light line for trout. Might be just me but I can cast lighter baits further
Excellent!!
cheers!
same thing with graphite shafts in golf clubs. When I was a kid, there was steel shafts with regular or stiff flex. Now there are weights for same length shafts from 40 grams to 90 grams, but flex is women’s, senior, regular, regular firm, stiff, extra stiff and pro stiff…..but then they go to “kick point”……..it can kick hi, low or in the middle. I
KUDOS! GREAT VIDEO!
thanks for sharing great explanations i think the recovery time is very important.in a good fishing rod. the older i get the more i like rods that are so called slower and less sensitive it makes you concentrate more on what your doing.
i like fast recovery too, but it needs to bend in the entire blank. I can't stand stiff blank with ultra soft mushy tip.
❤wow super good explanation
Many thanks for explaining types of fish rod ( action) . I think many beginners they don't know what kind of rod action to buy for different fishing method. And even I who fishing many for many years steel don't know. Of course if you are rich you can try and buy many fishing rods and compare them. Thank you for the explanation you gave in this video very short and very clear especially about the recovery of the rod action. God bless you
thanks for not being lazy and dropping a comment buddy
This has to be the best true fact video I have ever watched well done awesome 👍
thank you sir!
Tottaly agree with You!!!
Agree with your opinion on this. I fish from the bank for bass. Always used a fast action ugly stick gx2. Seems to do everything good, not great. Bought my first extra fast rod from lew’s and don’t enjoy the experience. Sensitivity is lower, casting is more like it flicks the bait instead of tossing it. Got a 7’ Shakespeare micro light and LOVE IT.
Shakespeare is the best rod of the 3 : )
I never considered recovery before this. Thank you for teaching me a new concept!
i appreciate the comment!
@ifishcatfish I just discovered your channel and have really learned a lot about your thoughts on UL gears. By the way, I saw a rod I am curious about. Have you ever fished with a Mustad Detector? They seem interesting.
@@jatseng0000 No but Mustad don't make any rods. They ordered a few rods from someone else and put their name on it. THey have no research, not experts on this topic, no nothing..
I figured, but they are good looking so I was curious if you know anything about the blanks they use. Thanks again for sharing your insights! I look forward to more of your contents!
You are a genius, best explanation on this.
I had a 6'7" moderate years ago and was the most sensitive rod. I could feel everything while drop shooting.
The extra fast drop shot rod I own now is nowhere near as sensitive.
I obviously was confused when I bought a extra fast drop shot rod. You make perfect sense
thank you sir, i appreciate not being lazy and sharing this!
And sell the extra fast rod to a buddy, if u ask me. Don't tell him about my video : )
Thanks
At last a scientific explanation, I was always confused about all of this despite having an engineer background
thank you sir!
So I go into this thinking this is gonna suck. Then I’m completely into it and actually learned something. Again, great video Victor.
😂 I appreciate your honesty, Bill! And the perseverance : )
Thanks Great video. . extra fast is better for a visual indication of a fish take like drop shot cast out and wait for the fish to take, If your dragging a lure you want a rod with feel more than a visual clue at tip.It's like float fishing, you see the float move but you feel nothing in the rod. It's a visual clue. IMO
Mr. Gary, you are Correct! If you are looking for Visual Indication, instead of feeling Physical Vibration, the extra soft tip of extra fast action is the rod for that. But tell me, have you EVER heard that as a reason these guys recommend XF rods? I have never once heard that. XF is recommended for sensitivity and casting distance and all of that stuff.. Bass Anglers as a group have ZERO interest in Visual Indication, i think that is safe to say : )
Bravo! 👏👏
Thanks Vic for the explanation, actually talking slow on 1,25 x speed just perfect.
Same experience, higher end daiwa seabass rods have all moderate action :) they call it moderate fast but in comparison to Shimano they are just moderate, amazing sensitivity, casting and fast recovery.
Casting vs sensitivity vs durability in size and material of guides, wish there wouldn't be trade off :)
Keep up great work, thank you 👍
thank you too! I appreciate the comment!
@TomasJanicek Interesting, can you elaborate? Looking at the Shimano Dialuna 96ML or something simlilar (?) like maybe Labrax AGS 96 ML, both baitcast.
None of them state the taper, the action (bending curve) in a clear way so I don't know which one to get If I'm looking for rod with moderate (regular?) action or say as much of a parabolic action as possible... maybe a Tailwalk Eginn s96ml-r but those are expired and was, anyway spinning only...
And I wouldn't mind a rod with a fairly fast recovery after the cast has been executed...
Those are exactly rods I was considering last month.
There are videos of guys jigging with them for flounder I think. You can see action etc.
My friend has a lot of high end rods and based on that I ended up with Daiwa. The only reason I didn't get labrax was actually AGS guides, as I'm on rocks all the time with 2 rods, massive waves etc.
I got Saltist seabass 1060 14-56g, still getting used to it as it is much lighter, more sensitive rod which I didn't expect.
My choice would be labrax as the guy I fish with have one and it is amazing rod, more parabolic and we both commented that Daiwa is more "softer" tip but in way it creates moderate action but with fast recovery.
He has Shimano lunamis, also HTO n70 but but are more fast, stiffer rods for me.
Hope it helps :)
Some brands adopted the hard solid tip material that gives another action on the tip element
Just a few months ago I reviewed a Hard Solid tip Corto Prototype. Check it out. Still extra fast. Extremely Extra Fast.
this was popular 25 to 30 yrs ago when carbon rods began to be introduced more here in Australia - hollow carbon blank with a solid fibreglass tip (Ugly Stik and others). You can still make a rod like this with any action you want though. Most beach fisherman here in the 70's and early 80's made their own rods from a range of brilliant blanks.
Great info! thanks! should be a monthly series "i_fish meditations" 🎉
i do want to do this once a month, to get something that irritates me off my chest : )
I have several legit design wild side rods and I really like all of them the 6'4L bait finesse moderate fast rod being my favorite. But I also have the 6'9MH moderate slow that I fished all summer for pike and whatever else bites and man let me tell u it's the most versatile rod I've ever fished...great at everything from anything with trebble hooks to big soft plastics with heavy gauge hooks at a wide range of weights. It changed the way i thought about fast action rods being better for "bottom contact" and "sensitivity"...I never liked fast action broom sticks anyways...I like my rod to bend. I'm glad you touched on this.
thank you sir for the nice comment, and for taking the time to write it. And i agree with you.. if you enjoy the actual fight with the fish and don't just ski them on top of the surface, the parabolic bends load up the entire blank and feel so much more satisfying
@@ifishcatfishdefinitely does...and isn't that why we all fish The Fight. I don't get the water skiing/horsing fish. Now I've done my fair share of putting my thumb down to stop my spool in a desperate act of stopping the fish but I would much rather play the fish. As an example I caught a 25lb channel catfish on a 6'6L power bfs rod with a daiwa gekkabijin air tw spooled up with .8 line from shore and that fish tried to get in all kinds of spots where I would have lost it...anyway bit of a rant. Thanks for the comment back sir
Untill now, i also got this action thing wrong. So you are telling me that rod can have slow action but fast recovery speed?
Yes sir. Especially high end rods... they will have fast recovery no matter what action.
Good information.
They really pissed you off 😀, "youtube experts". You're a king. 👍
Cheers! : )
lol you are good at recognizing patterns
I think i am, but why did u say that? What patterns were there in this video?
@@ifishcatfish knowledgeable people are often not as engaging to others lol
From this video i follow your channel. 💪
It has been 20 years since I fished regularly, but I am near retirement , so now I will have time for golf and fishing both. So I am researching and learning. 20 years ago, other than salmon eggs and power bait……few people jigged for trout…or used plastics, grubs, mice tails…….we used kernel corn, crickets, worms. But mostly spinners , spoons or small crank baits, such as Rebel Crickhoppers.20 years later, the reels seem more refined ….the rods are unbelievably LIGHT. In fact. I find the Dobyns, Felix , Loomis……too light for my taste. But they do seem strong
Totally agree with your explanation. Here in Poland we have different problem. Some people talk here about "action" and they mean what an action really is i.e. how much of a rod flexes and some people when they say "action" mean how responsive/crisp the rod is. To add to the confusion even some manufacturers/distributors confuse this.
I am currently looking for some blanks or ready made rods with moderate-slow action but rather crisp high modulus carbon 2.4-2.5m long with casting weight about 25-30g. Can't find anything like that.
Yamaga Blanks have some very long rods that are super crisp. Also their actions are very good. They are not completely parabolic but they are not extra fast either.. I like their actions, they keep the rod very stable. Shimano Japan also has some 8 foot rods but i find Yamaga Blanks better both in terms of blank and in terms of action
Great video!!! I guess in Europe (maybe i am wrong) we mainly categorize the Fast/extra fast and so on only after recoverytime… Fast action = fast recovery. Keep on going!
As usual, you are spot on. You did talk slow, with purpose. Explained yourself well. I think you are correct. It goes far back to your presentation of the Ugly Stik Tiger Elite, showing the perfect parabolic bend of it. That would be slow action.
i appreciate the always meaningful comments, mr Rob!
Amazing great video Victor,,this is going to change my fishing choices forever....also you have introduced me and I expect many others to stop using big heavy clunky rods and to consider light or Ultralight gear. I am in the process of switching from all the expert recommended Medium light rods for bass and crappie etc ... thanks to you I got my first light rod ( a move on my path to the ultra light ..wanting to do a progression so as not to get shocked by jumping in at the deep end) ..I ordered the TFO 7 foot light FAST and this is not an expensive rod and you know I prefer it a million times more than my NRX plus 6 10 ned rig rod ...the tfo is pure enjoyment when you catch a bass or a crappie from lake shore and it can handle the biggest of fish ..just like you have shown in your videos where the UL lands big fish. My nrx feels like a plank of wood and I will sell it asap ...the tfo feels like a treasure in comparison. The only moderate action rod I have actually seen in my browsing is the kastking Crixus ..a cheap rod on amazon ..I got a few and they are fun to use ...the blank is IM6 but the point is that they are moderate and work perfectly.
While shopping recently I do not think I have seen one light rod with a medium to slow action ....so my quest now is to find one but as you said they are not readily available. I am that Ned rig guy you referred to ..I thought I needed fast or extra fast tip to bounce the 1/16 micro trd on the bottom but little did i know I sacrificed all that sensitivity .Thanks again for sharing this with the viewers.
thank you sir. Don't rush selling and buying though... a lot of manufacturer ratings are completely wrong. Take your time researching them..
Really good points about the misinformation out there on this matter. I always thought "extra fast" action meant "delicate broomstick" and slow meant "doubles as a drain snake". Under your revised definition I think many of the rods I prefer are actually moderate or moderate-slow. If you think about the rod as a progressively loading lever, one of the most important aspects is the increasing work the fish must do for the rod to "give". If the rod can only safely bend at the top 1/3rd of the blank, you have far less leverage than if it bends down the entire blank. I suspect the populatirty of the fast action in the US has been mainly due to marketing and the boat flipping practices of the pros. It helps to have a broom handle rod if you're going to send a trophy fish sailing onto your deck 🙈
Very good points.
Great video
I actually have the perfect scenario for extra fast action ice fishing rods like the tucr bullwhip so you see the bite before you feel it but open water not so much
U know what, i didn't think about that because i have never ice fished, but I think you are right! If visual indication is what you want, and not sensitivity, then, yes, XF is what you want!
So essentially, the quality of a rod comes down to it's elasticity and weight. So those are the 2 things that drive up cost... Great explanation and good to see years of information from your other videos in one place.
Thank you!
We need those i_fish rods Victor.
one day... when ifishtackle.com gets about 5 000 customers... To get a good price u have to order many, and right now my shop is so small that i will probably sell only 50 or 100.. But one day i want to make my own rod, yes..
I like your explanation. I think the factor that possibly needs to be considered is that, especially with braid or ester lines, shy biting fish can be missed by a stiffer tip. The reason Aji type rods and dropshot rods often have a spliced in solid tip, or a very light tip, is so the fish can actually suck in the lure with less resistance. Very dependant on fish species of course, most American pan fish aren't terribly shy usually, but look at ice fishing rods. Ultra ultra light tips so the barely biting cold water fish can suck in the lure without feeling the tip and the tip can register the bite.
'*shy biting fish can be missed by a stiffer tip*' - No, its the other way around, as long as we talk about vibration for sensitivity. If you don't care for vibration, but are just WATCHING the tip, like Feeder fishing in Europe, then OK, but in United States sensitivity means detection of VIBRATION.
'suck in the lure with less resistance' - I heard this 100 times and nobody has been able to explain to me the logic behind it. The jigs goes in the mouth. OK. Now tell me WHY am i trying to keep the fish from feeling the tip?? Where are you going with this? The jig is in the mouth. The fish can feel the jig, but i use only japanese hooks, and its already too late! There is no coming out. I have dozens of uncut videos with 30 min of fishing without missing a single fish. How do i manage that with tubular tip?? Is it because american fish are so stupid? Maybe in Japan i will catch nothing with tubular tip? People say that nonsense and its like quoting the bible. Its supposed to be the END of all discussion. Except that it makes no sense. Not logical, and not empirical. I fish only tubular and i doubt many people in US have higher hookup ratio than me.
So good video.
"Fast is goood" 😄
😁
Another solid video. I'm surprised how you didn't mention that in the US everyone uses power and action interchangeably. I always hear CZcamsrs talk about how their rod is "light action". Also, I know this video was strictly from an action perspective, but when choosing a rod isn't there more to consider? Sensitivity aside, wouldn't an extrafast rod be a better choice over a slow rod for something like ned rigging? While a slow action rod would be better for float fishing?
The video was 50 min long.. i cut some things out to trim it to 30 mins. I discussed in detail the difference in casting between the actions. But no, there is no application for which extra fast action would be good. That extra soft tip will MUSH everything.
Also when fish with heavy lure the xf rod tip feel soft I will use fast or moderate rod. Moderate rod do good for heavy lure. I agree with you about xf rod have soft tip. So only use xf rod with light lure when you target is big fish you need the blank of the xf rod.
When u target big fish, u need rod that has POWER for big fish. Go to Medium or MH or even Heavy power. But don't use XF action for big fish. U don't need a flimsy tip for big fish.
@@ifishcatfish After one fishing session, goodbye arms :D
@@KmtHW My arms are just fine. And my rods are definitely lighter than yours. Watch some of my rod reviews and tell me how your XF rods compare
@@ifishcatfish Sorry, that supposed to be a comment for Kong just saying nobody should throw big lures with not enough power in rods, you will feel it end of the day.
ps: Your videos are great 👍
Good explanation. The only application of extra fast action rod with soft tip is : Mebaru (salt water rockfishing) , when the fish bites, the tip easly bends and it delays the fish feeling the resistance and of course it delays your sensing the bite. This is the theory of mebaru rods. But in reality I never benefit from that rods. No difference in catching fish. For sure less sensitivity, less enjoy and more difficult to penetrate the hook, unless it completely swallows it.
I know about that theory but i think its nonsense. If the fish puts the lure in its mouth, WHY would i want to delay anything? I don't mind if it feels the lure. The moment it feels it, its already too late. The stiffer tip will actually assist in hook penetration much better than those mushy XF solid tips. Not to mention that I don't believe the fish can't feel something is wrong when it eats a lure on a solid tip rod. The fish will immediately feel the resistance. A solid tip still has resistance when it bends, and i think its more than enough for a fish to feel something is not right.
I enjoyed that Vic, thanks - I wonder why no one uses the term “test curve” for lure rods anymore as this gave a very measurable definition - a long time ago in the UK we used to see catalogues that stated Action, Test Curve, and then usually recommended line weight or dating weight 🤷🏼♂️
Test Curve sounds way too scientific for USA : )
As you say it would be nice if the marketeers would do something accurate/factual rather than just using words like “fast” and “sensitive” or doing things in stupid colours that clash with the last stupid colour 😂 - in the good old days reels were black or silver and rods were black with black or cork handles 😢😂
I saw the Daiwa Presso at Phoenix fishing. They had only one, and it was like 9 feet and whippy. Good news was they just put up a new display for new Shimano sensalite rods! Total remake. For $50, a cut above the Shakespeare micro-which I like. I got the 7 foot Shakespeare--I like the action…..but you can jig with it…you are right……….the Sensalite 6’6” one piece got me to buy it. I love it. Rated for 2-6 lbs line…says “fast action”…….but not stiff at all…..flexes most at the tip, but I can feel it flex all the way down….almost slow action…but not whippy. Really seems fun….and looks good. Daiwa Procyo…..both the aluminum AL LT and the one for $175 are awesome. The non aluminum one is so light and they both seem so strong. I didn’t like the Vanford and they didn’t have the Ultegra. Also, Daiwa EU has one called the Prorex that has some unique features. I would love to see you get ahold of one of those and try it out.
Thank you, I enjoyed your video, and like your explanation of rod action! Perhaps I am a minority, but as an angler in the US I've never thought of slow/moderate action rods as being inferior, and certainly never classified them as being insensitive. When I shop for a rod I have a specific species and technique in mind and base my needs on those, not what might sound cool to the marketing team. I would argue that an extra fast rod would be the stick of choice for punching heavy mats or fishing a frog with heavy dual hooks for trophy caliber bass.
I appreciate the comment! I am an UL angler and im not gona pretend to be familiar with those applications.. I will say though that i would not use XF for anything. If i want a strong rod i would get parabolic action in heavy power. But i have never done ur applications and dont have opinion on them
Nothing wrong with that brother, I do a lot of UL fishing myself! I only own one XF action rod, and it's also heavy power. The only thing I use it for is frogging and punching. Too much parabolic can make it hard to set those heavy opposed hooks, and ripping big fish through grass mats requires a pool cue of a rod and fairly heavy braid. Tight lines, my friend.@@ifishcatfish
Same mindset down here in Italy 🇮🇹! Most of the first spinning rods came from the US and “fast action “ is a must, slow action or regular as it is called down here is equal blasphemy 😂😂.
I have loved your explanation , and I must admit I was confused a bit too at the beginning, bc we were kind of indoctrinated by the vendors and the companies. But since 3 years ago I’ve started following basically only japanese angler and try buying only made in Japan stuff and it was by that time when I heard the word “ recovery “ . At some point I was wondering if you were going to talk about that.
Good job Viktor , i alwsy love when you do this kind of vids ….gonna watch it twice 😂😅😮
Blasphemy!!! You nailed it! Thats exactly what it feels like to say that u loke moderate action rod or slow gear rstio reel..
I bought the Shakespeare Glass Micro Lite 7’6 I think it’s slow action. I like it because I feel like I’m casting better with my jigs. I haven’t caught anything yet tho lol. I got for panfishing. You think I’ll be fine
which power did u buy? Note that in the video i highlighted that i recommend the L power, because the true power is UL. If you buy UL, it will be too wobbly
Just getting to this video. You did a good job explaining this and its a shame it hasn’t got the views you deserve. One element about your explanation that i think the confusion comes from is Bass fisherman(mostly) confuse sensitivity and the actual ability for faster hook sets.
What guys are saying they want in a ned rig rod is sensitivity. But what they really “mean” is a fast transition from initial movement on the hook set into the stiff backbone or spine of the rod. To get the hook buried a as fast as possible when a fish grabs the lure on a single hook application.
Bass fisherman love to rip the lips off bass Just watch Roland Martin or Bill Dance set the hook. With heavy action rods and setups that are generally stiffer than they need to throw the lures they’re using. Along with over powering everything using heavy gauge hooks and really heavy braid when they don’t need it. Honestly. Most bass anglers in general are using 3/8oz lures. maybe 1/2 oz. and they Buy rods and set up there gear for the monster bass that they will never see. Most average guys are catching 2-5lb bass. not much more. And i do bass fish too. All i ever see when watching rod guides is over powering them fish. Rip their lips off and crank them to the boat as fast as possible. Everyone thinks they’re on the tournament trail. You’re exactly right. Like It taboo to use a medium or slower action rod, your not a real man.. That was an excellent point n made me laugh.
I think more videos on this subject to help guys out when trying to select rods, especially USA rods for ultralight fishing are needed. I know we don’t have the best. But with some information, a guy can go out to a local place n grab a rod and know what to feel for or how to make the best decision with the money he has and what he can find. Thanks again Victor.
Imagine being a bass, and someone rips your face with a heavy power rod, 50 lb braid, and they put everything they've got in the swing. Fkk that fish, even if they release it, that fish will never completely recover
You should review the new Shimano Sensilite a! I didn't like the old model, but this one looks promising.
Ok
Greetings from now "Democratic Bulgaria" :) ! To be honest I'm not really sure which version is worse,but let's not go to the "sewer" of politics now. I just felt I had to finally subscribe and say hello :) I've been watching some of your videos - mostly gear reviews, and I really find them helpful. Before I go and spend my money on something I try to make my own research and people like you are a true gem. If you are associated with any company you instantly become obliged to praise their products. You reviews are honest and thorough and this is something very rare. Fun fact - I had a 2020 Legalis and the new Ultegra before I watched your reviews - I remember how happy I felt when I finally watched them! Before I win the longest comment reward I just want to wish to you and your family all the luck,health and happiness! Поздрави от България, приятелю:)! Бъди здрав и до скоро!
You have hit a subject that I have had nightmares over; I agree with and love your explanation on rod action. I believe you are correct on every point in your explanation. Thank you so much!!!!
thank you sir, i appreciate that!
Very good points Vic. My thoughts were also that a fast/super fast rod with its soft wimpy tip simply kills all fun of casting as well as fighting of a fish. And, if rod manufacturers figured out some buzz word for “slow/moderate” action, maybe like “hyper-parabolic” we might actually see more rods on the market which actually would be more fun to fish as well as to fight fish on.
man you GOT IT! I think you are CORRECT! They need to change the terminology to overcome this US Phobia of Slow : ). Tell the Hyper Parabolic and you gona sell some moderate action rods!!! LOL : ) You are a marketing genius, i should have thought of that : )
Carp is considered to be a sport fish in the EU and fishing for it is considered to be an art. USA is big on bass fishing.. minds get led in different directions and are set.My family came to the USA in the 1800s from various countries….and I don’t get bass mania, either….unless it’s real bass, like striped bass.
I have an ultralight Quantum 1 piece rod that is 4’6” and has a slow action. It is fun as hell to catch 12 inch trout on. the rod is soft, but not whippy…….and you can jog with it, as my wife used to do successfully……
20 year old fiberglass
I feel the same with you! You can try evergreen salty sensation superior sprs-56xul😂This rod is stiff solid tip, it bend absolutely parabolic!! It is also sensitive rod and have solid tip advantages. You can try!! I think this rod is perfect balance between soft and stiff!!😅
can you email me a picture of the bend curve of that rod? With something like 50 to 100 gram load. I have never seen in my life a solid tip rod bend parabolic. A lot of people asked me about that rod but i have never seen the bend curve. I will appreciate it if u email me a picture
I suggest the Aji rods ( Horse Mackarel ), available in all price ranges , really sensitive (depends on price), XUL to ML power , Stiff tip , no action rating ( but I guess they are Fast or Moderate Fast )
yes, except on the Power rating they can be a bit much. For some reason they are hard to find in XUL power, usually there are closer to ML power
How quickly do you want more force applied? Depends on the fish you are after, and how much play you are willing to let the fish have. The way I think of "action" of a rod, fast action especially, is how quickly a rod stabilizes, if you hold a rod firmly in one hand and "bump" it with the other, how quickly does it settle back to being steady... not vibrating or wiggling or whatever motion you might see. A fast action rod will snap back to "not moving" very quickly. Firmness? How quickly you can transmit a motion of your hand through to the line/hook. Will the fast action be absorbed into the stretch of mono line while braid will transmit that action more directly?
well your definitions are something new to me.. i have not heard of such things before. But if you watch 'the experts' you can confirm that they all have the definition that i describe in the video - where does the rod bend - mostly in the tip, or everywhere. You seem to be mixing several things together but i don't want to get into a back and forth, as my opinion is already stated in the video
Interesting video and nice explanation of the different actions.
I like fast and xfast rods and I wonder if I have just gotten use to them or I think I feel that much of my fishing is in or very near heavy cover which the fish will immediately try to dive into once hooked and I feel the overall stiffer backbone of the faster rods allow me to better use the rod to help lift/guide the fish to keep it out of those entangling underwater hazards over a slower less stiff rod blank.
Maybe its just a mental thing but I seem to like those faster rods more it seems.
I will say that my preferences changed when I started ordering Ajing rods for my ultra light fishing from Japan and when comparing American models even from rod makers like Diawa or Shimano the products designed for the American market was just lacking so much as compared to the Japanese market offerings.
Another manufacturer that has decent offerings across the price ranges I like is Major Craft.
It is confusion so deep that it is impossible to remove. Extra Fast action does NOT have more power than Moderate action, by DEFINITION. If both rods are MEDIUM power, they should both be medium power, otherwise their label would be incorrect. In reality, you are right, and the label is most of the time incorrect, and XF action rods are overall thicker than Moderate action rod, even when the label says they have same power. But the power of the rod is determined by the Power Label, not the Action Label.
Let me ask you this, does Extra Soft tip help you pull fish out of cover? No, right? But Extra Fat backbone means Extra Soft tip! There is no other way to create Extra fast action. The definition of XF action is that the tip is MUCH SOFTER than the base. But why do u need soft tip for pulling fish out of cover? You don't. If you need more power, get more power. XF action is good for nothing.
@@ifishcatfish No but the added backbone and the stiffer blank below the tip in my mind allows me to have a higher lift point overall closer to the fish due to the faster rods overall characteristics than a softer rod that starts its bend much closer to the handle or reel on the rod.
Again like stated earlier the overall characteristics of the entire blank do behave much differently.
I said in my first post it may be mental in my thoughts that makes me comfortable but so far nothing said has changed my thoughts on the reasoning I choose the action I choose.
@@billwiley7216 Yes, its completely mental. A medium power moderate action rod will immediately extract any bass on this planet, even over 10 pounds, away from cover, provided your line is strong enough. Going faster actions and heavier powers than that is absolutely herd mentaility - if everyone is doing it it must be right, and do not question the mentality of the herd. The ONLY justifiable reason for heavier power rods is if you cast one of those huge glide baits or swimbaits that weigh several ounces. You cannot cast these with a medium power rod. But pulling fish away from cover takes very little force. I fished catfish and carp all of my life, and we use thinner line and thinner rods even for carp fishing, when those fish are much heavier and much stronger than bass, and always run into cover
Also can you do a video explaining tubular tip vs solid tip? I never hear these terms in US Market only jdm…
in another video
Let me know if my understanding is correct. A rod thats lighter but bends more can help cast a lighter lure but in return the trade off since it bends more, when you try to set the hook when the fish bites its going to be slow.
No. If both rods are Ultralight, they are supposed to OVERALL bend just as much. But the XF will bend only in the tip, and the MF will bend in the entire blank. U don't want XF for anything anything anything
How many pieces the rod is has no effect on action. Not today, anyway. All of my rods are 2 piece, and some are fast, and most are moderate. You want to cast with the entire rod, and u want to fish with the entire rod, not just with the tip.
@@ifishcatfish dont know what happened to my comment but thanks for still responding.
But now that you have mentioned these things, I also now understand why others test out the rods on a ceiling to see how it bends.
Makes compete sense now why Im making mistakes with the rods I'm buying.
@@imthebestthingsinceslicedr5400 i can see your comments... i have replied to all of them i think..
I approve this message :D
thank you sir! : )
I use XF rods because they are sensitive for soft lures. It have solid tip. Tubular are more universal. What do you prefer for soft baits and small lures?
XF rods are good for Nothing. They are less sensitive, they are terrible casters, and kill the joy of playing the fish. I use parabolic rods for pretty much everything. If you cast small lures, use Super Ultralight. If u cast big lures use ML power. U have to use power that is appropriate for the load you are casting, but that doesn't change the fact that bending only in the tip is bad for everything
Nice video. I liked what you said about fishing not being that important. Even though it is sometimes very important to just "being there at the water", fishing isn't...Here in the Netherlands we have a very long tradition (since 50's / 60's) of (ultra)light spinning for pike and perch. Accordingly specialist rods have been developped and made. One of the founders once stated something like: "he who considers himself as an expert in the field of fishing, will need at least 50 years to find out that there are no 'experts' in fishing"
The biggest mistake in the fishing industry, I think, is to combine 'action' with 'fast' or 'slow'. A rod has no action of its own. Action, as the word implies, is the movement you give the rod in action, i.e. in fishing. The so called 'fast action' rods you mention, are really rods on a stick. The 'fastness' with these kind of rods comes from the speed ones arm moves. The rod will never fully load the recommended casting weight. As you mentioned, recovery is the key. A rod can recover fast, or slow. For spinning fast recovery is best I think. I missed in your video the progressive flex in a rod which I think is in most situations the 'best' or at least the nicest tool to use (casting lures and playing fish). A rod that flexes gradually and progressively from tip al the way to handle when loading the weight of the lure, and evenso gradually releases the stored energy on the cast. This can still be a very'fast' rod (in recovery), all depends on material, lenght, mass and taper. Accordingly there are custom build rods for example from glass, about 5 ft, for spinners only 2 or 3 grams which are very fast in recovery. A very precise tool, in balance with 12 or 14/100 nylon. A fishing rod with so called 'tip action' is in most cases just a rod on a broomstick...
A lot of good points but this post is too long for people to read. Also, i cannot reply to your post now because you made 30 different points in it - where to start..
Yes a bit long. I sometimes tend to get carried away when talking or writing on fishing. Especially on this subject. Not unlike you, I think. Which I like about your videos, as well as your perspective view on the subject of fishing. On 'recovery': it's not about material or stiffness. It's about taper, lenght etc. An equally fast (recovery) rod for 2 grams casting weight can be made from glass as from carbon. With the glass there will be some lenght restriction ofcourse en a difference in overall weight. This I mean for rods that truly are gradually progressive in bending all to the handle and are true in stated power and recommended casting weight. Which you never find in a production rod. They're all too stiff, mostly towards the handle. This means the rod will never get fully loaded under 2 grams of casting weight. You can see that in the video of the Shimano sensilite; the lower part doesn't work with the rest under casting and under playing the fish. So the so called 'fastness' comes from the arm muscles, not from the (full lenght of) rod releasing the stored energy fastly upon casting. Especially when casting small light spinners with a spinning rod, the ultralight spinning we do here, you need a controlled cast. gradually building up in energy. That will give distance en precision with a not so aerodynamic lure as the small spinner is. These kind of rods give also al lot of fun playing fish. And enable to use the thinnest of mono. The power of a fish will always be gradually transferred through the rod until the set break resistance of the spinning reel will release line. In my experience I also get more hook sets, without even the need to 'set' the hook. The immediate and gradually resistance of the whole ensamble is often enough to get hooked. What helps in this aspect is, in my opinion, to never use trebles but always use single fine wire slightly offset hooks.@@ifishcatfish
I have a XF ultralight, I can see (but not feel) some bites. Maybe that is the one application
Yes. Visual. But not physical feel. It is the opposite of what people expect when they buy these…
I am hunting for low or slow gear ration spinning reel for finesse fishing, the 5:1 gear ratios are too fast for proper finesse fishing.
Hey ifish, will there be a UL rod & reel buyers guide this year? Cheers
I will try...
Pls do video about shimano spools vs Daiwa spools cast distances
OK.
@@ifishcatfish Haha Thx man u The Best 🙏
I live in the Netherlands. We distinguish between the type of bend (top or, for example, the entire rod) and the action (the speed of recovery). A parabolic bending rod can be built fast or slow. Same for top bending rod. I think that's what you meant too.
Yes! I know in Europe anglers are familiar of the concept of Recovery and do not conflate it with the bend curve (called Action here)
I like use moderate rod for bottom fish. Do give more info from the rod. Also like use extra fast rod for small jig.I feel fish pull rod easy and feel better. Prove I am wrong.
you are wrong!
Hi victor great video. One thing im still confused is the sensitivity if you can answer for me. So theoretically if you want the most sensitive rod in the entire world it will be the stiffest slow action rod as stiffness = sensitivity? And slow action = similar stiffness, so there is no numbness anywhere and it will have the same sensitivity distribution for the whole rod?
Correct - Theoretically. In practice, this is VERY OBVIOUS with rods that are not very thick, lets Say Medium Power and lower. With those rods the tip is too soft and will Kill sensitivity. But if you go to HEAVY or XH Power, the difference in sensitivity will not be that noticeable, even though the same thing will be true. The Tip will still be softer than the blank, but even if softer, it is still STIFF ENOUGH to transfer vibration from bottom contact. Throw quarter ounce and drag it on the bottom and Watch the tip. Does the tip BEND when u bump a stone? It is the BENDING that kills vibration. If the tip is stiff enough, the difference in sensitivity become theoretical. But in those cases the difference in CASTING become enormous. Bottom line, XF action sucks always and forever
None of my extra fast or fast action rods are noodles at the end like the one you showed.
Extra fast rods are good for jigging, when you have to pop the jigs through weeds.
The way I've always thought of it(because that's how it always has worked in practice for me) is that the action refers to how quickly the rod loads(aka how far down the blank the tip bends). So an xfast action has more "pop" than a moderate action, like you said, the sensitivity is in the materials.
Watch Tom Boley talk about the different rods he uses for Walleye and why, he uses moderate, fast, and xfast for specific presentations and it makes a lot of sense.
I watched all of them. It was Embarrassing! You are repeating the same nonsense that is propagated everywhere. I explained very simply why you are wrong. Please read my previous comment. It has only 2 statements. Please read it again and tell me which of the two statements is wrong. Do not write long nonsense here, it is embarrassing and you will end up deleting it yourself. You can tell your friends that i will accept all invitations to debate on this subject. Just prepare live debate and invite me! I am not upset or sarcastic, i think people deserve the right to explain and defend their position. Set up a live debate, and let me know!
@@ifishcatfish if you watched his video, what did he say? You don't know what you're talking about. The tip isn't the only part of the rod that transmits feel, lol. I'm glad moderate rods work for you in your specific situation, like maybe you like to cast really far, that's cool and all, but they don't call it casting, they call it fishing.
@@nathaniellarson8 I will debate anyone with a youtube channel bigger than mine. LIVE. Set it up, and invite me! If you cannot set it up, let me know who wants to debate me and i will set it up. I just ask for a youtube channel bigger than mine - that shouldn't be hard.
Fast means stiff tip, not soft tip. The faster the rod, the less bend the tip has.
That is impossible. Everyone agrees, even the youtube experts, that the Parabolic bend is Moderate. And when it bends mostly in the tip is XF. Every one of these video experts agree on that. But the only way to get parabolic action is to have very stiff tip., just as stiff as the blank. And the only way for the rod to bend only in the tip, is if the tip is much softer than before. The first point of my argument is Universally agreed among 'experts' and the second is just defined by physics.
For what purpose do you use your X-fast presented in video? Just wondering..🤔
BRAVO! Maybe you have ill intentions but i love smart comments! Im surprised nobody else thought of that.. The truth is that these rods are sold only in Japan and nobody will tell you what action they have. When you buy it, returning is so expensive that you are better off keeping it. I HATED the tip, but otherwise loved the rod, and so i bought the tubular tip version immediately, to get the same rod in slower action. The tubular tip is much STIFFER and has the action i want! Still not parabolic, but its good enough...
thank you for great info.can you explaine how to match rod action to tipe of the lures? rod action for poppers or for jerk baits ? jigs ..
thank you.
I fish only ultralight and don't have much expertise with jerk baits and stuff. If you want to twitch, u can use fast action rod, for swimbaits and crankbaits definitely moderate action, just whatever u do stay away from Extra Fast action.
@@ifishcatfish thank you.
One other thing that needs to be addressed is rod action differs greatly even by the same manufacturer. There is NO industry standard. I personally own a St Croix Avid Inshore in fast action and a St Croix Tournament Legend Inshore in fast action and they are very different in the tip sensitivity. Try before you buy is the take away!
yes. Even the same manufacturer can have different labels on the same action, because different people design the ultralight rods and different people design the bass rods and so on..
Finally someone that thinks the same as I do :-)
My dream rod is Ultra-fast recovery, Medium-slow action, Super hi-modules carbon... It just does not exit yet...
You don't need ultra fast recovery. Fast recovery is good enough, and such rods do exist. Presso AIR AGS 6'1ML
Hi Victor, do you call the softer tip fast because it bends fast? I am confused.
Its just soft. It bends with very little weight. As u can see in the video bends 180 degree with very little force.
Hey Vic,
After watching this video, which was super informative, I assume it is best to try and test the rod in person, rather than follow what the label is suggesting, to see what the true action is? I was wondering why I was having such a difficult time finding an UL that was labeled as "Slow", that wasn't JDM.
I am in search for 1 or 2 rods in my ultralight arsenal that bend all the way down. Appreciate your content.
well u need to start watching my playlist with rod reviews. Thats pretty much all u need!
I know what I'm doing this weekend. Tight lines! @@ifishcatfish
What would be your recommendation on a general use multi-species rod? Medium power moderate fast action?
whatever power u need, but moderate fast action.
I would like to say thank you for all of your content. I would like to ask if I am understanding what you're saying. Are you saying that when it comes to JDM rods that a slow action rod will be stiffer and more sensitive than a fat action rod? I think you are saying that in JDM that "Fast" refers to how quickly the rod tip reacts meaning it will be more limber and a slow action will be stiffer- am I correct it am I confused? I have been confused before lol.
find the text that i wrote and kept on the screen. Slow action means parabolic bend, means that the tip is of similar stiffness as the blank. Fast action means the tip is thin and bends a lot and blank is thick and doesn't bend, so u get bend only in the tip. Watch my next video on the same topic - it has very nice graphs
@@ifishcatfish Thank you