Bishop Barron on Jordan Peterson and Sam Harris
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- čas přidán 30. 01. 2019
- Over the Christmas break, I spent a fair amount of time binge-watching Jordan Peterson videos. Of the many Peterson videos, the ones that intrigued me the most featured his dialogues with Sam Harris, one of the “four horsemen of the new atheism” and perhaps the most strident critic of religion on the scene today.
Last June, my wife and I had a brief conversation with Jordan Peterson in Charlotte. I asked him when he would going to do a sit down with Bishop Barron and he answered, "It's on my to do list."
William Durst when i read this comment i was on public transit and my jaw dropped…got a couple interesting looks from people. SO excited at the possibility of that happening!
Nice
im astounded i thought he would answer that he would hit you with one of the "it would take me like 40 hours to answer that question"
czcams.com/video/cXllaoNQmZY/video.html
So good to see this after the fact that they've spoken and worked together several times now ❤ Plus, that his wife Tammy has been attending RCIA 🙏
I’m so confused of how I ended up here... two years ago I was literally scowering the internet because I’d officially watched all of Christopher Hitchens videos😂. It’s been a long crazy journey. A journey that was definitely worth taking. This is awesome.
God bless you Bishop. Listening to your wise words, along with reading CS Lewis, has helped me become a Christian in the last year. I can't express with words how grateful I am. Thanks for all you do!
Were you an atheist?
Agnostic. I wasn't raised in a religious household, but I always had a sense that there was more to life than just the cold physical world. I got into the New Age stuff for a little bit, but it always left something to be desired. I discovered Jordan Peterson in 2016 and he led me to Jonathan Pageau and Paul VanderKlay, whom led me to CS Lewis and Bishop Barron. After reading "Mere Christianity", my world was rocked.
@@JoshualbatrossThank you. It's very inspiring.
Josh the Mover praise The Lord!
@Josh the Mover Thanks for sharing this. Really happy for you
Oh Father, when are you going to have a conversation with Jordan Peterson?
Here here!
@@PR0per6RAMmar I believe he has already had a dialogue, possibly several.
Indeed! But it has to be only the two of them, in a direct dialogue, so that the conversation can be an exchange of the minds on the truly meaningful things, and not some moderator asking about popular (and ultimately shallow) talking points.
@@etme1000 I disagree. A third party (a good interviewer) who knows how to hold court could and would put people on the spot, playing devil's advocate and offering a second perspective to someone's counter-argument. Someone like Andrew Neil does it with particular aplomb.
@The Anthropologist _Forensic Who did Jesus walk with again?
This man will be the patron saint of the internet one day, I just know it.
@Aesthetic Decision Maybe patron saint of multimedia messaging.
Hahaha....Absolutely!
Don't let mad Michael Vorhis hear you say that. He'll go apoplectic
Francis Moran I won’t 😆
No he won't.
Bishop Barron in a conversation with Dr Jordan Peterson ... ah yes please and make mine a double. Let’s toss in David Rubin as facilitator and that’d be something to hear
I would much prefer Douglas Murray as MC, he has the ability to cut to the chase and ask incisive questions regarding religion whilst also respecting it. His interview with Peterson was interesting. Rubin, I feel, is a little too chummy with Jordan so and he's interviewed Bishop Barron before too. It's important to keep things fresh. The IDW's greatest threat is itself, it sometimes looks a little small and inward looking-just as the Church needs to, it is important to go out and seek those who might confront you, argue, hold abhorrent views and challenge us. That's my opinion at least.
I'm not sure Rubin would help. Most people aren't aware of Aristotelian/Thomistic and the concepts in it that compose the classic arguments for God's existence. I feel like there would almost have to be a pre-conversation lecture for Peterson to introduce him to things like the 4 causes, act and potency before a real dialogue would begin otherwise they would just talk past each other with Peterson thinking naturalistically and Bishop Barron using Aristotelian/Thomistic terms.
But Rubin doesn't know jack about philosophy.
@@cochranesimon: I agree completely. Harris is not intellectually well-formed in the way that Peterspn and Murray are - or for that matter Dawkins (rabid atheist that he is).
Oooh, that would be the discussion of the year.
Yes, Bishop I would love to see that conversation! I am a devout Catholic and big supporter of Peterson's work. I got to see him live in Dallas, it was awesome! I agree with your assessment of the limitations of his approach. You'll see it especially on his thoughts on hope in Rule 12 in his book. If the metaphysical realties of God do not exist, then at best we can hope for is the small moments of beauty in our day (e.g. petting a cat on the street) to briefly pause the misery of our conscious existence. Yet, a Catholic would look at those moments though a sacramental lens and they would raise our hearts to heaven. The peace offered in those moments is connected to relationship, not just distraction. Here is a practical limitation when the metaphysical is left unaddressed. Thanks and God bless your ministry!
Peterson thinks an actual being God is something for stupid babies.
Wow, great insight!
@@johnjacob5990 It's a good thing then that Catholics view God as a "being" as something for stupid babies as well.
St Thomas Aquinas explains rather well why God isn't a "being", rather, he is "being itslef".
@@gixxerfixxer4159 So, Catholics don't think there's an actual independent agent God who is an actual being?
Me thinks you just buy word salad bs.
@@johnjacob5990 Well I'm oversimplifying here.
But no, they don't believe that God is a "being" in that he has a physical place of residence.
They don't believe that there's an invisible man in the sky watching over them.
A better analogy would be that God is kinda like "The Force" in Star Wars, or "The Matrix", except that he is conscious and has his own will.
That's sorta the cliff-notes of the Aristotelian/Thomistic view of God.
You are so articulate and insightful. It is so great hearing your perspective on things. God bless and all the best this Christmas season.
Another great video. God bless you Bishop Barron
In support of Dave Rubin creating a meeting between the Bishop and Dr. Peterson...
1. He's met with both men and could facilitate it much easier.
2. It would be neutral territory.
3. More viewers would see it.
dave rubin sucks
Thank you for your videos Bishop Barron. I always enjoy them while at work. I'm a mailman so I listen to you all day long.
May God bless u in abundance Bishop Barron. And Jordan Peterson and Bishop Barron in a discussion on faith and religion that will be epic. Let us all together request them both and make it happen.
*So when are we gonna have Jordan Peterson and you Bishop Barron sit down for a chat?? Make a minimum of 2 hours! :)*
In-fucking deed, Arturo.
Lol! :)
I don't think it would be what you think it would. They agree on a lot of issues, you're really looking at a discussion within a small spectrum.
@@cochranesimon *Hmm... then perhaps a double team up debate with people of differing views?? That would be interesting!*
@@teurascalx2009 *Well, I am only suggesting something that we all would be keen to see. As Bishop Barron does this videos to engage with the culture, wouldn't such an exchange accomplish that goal as well? :)*
Monsignor Robert, God bless you. I admire his preachings a lot, I follow him from his series Catholicism, and the three paths to holiness, transmitted by EWTN. I do not speak English, but anyway I'm subscribed to your channel, and I see it trying to understand something haha. Please ask someone in your diocese to translate your videos, for the good of all Latinos. Thank you in advance. A hug from Argentina. God keep it and the Holy Spirit continues to lead it.
@@ThePassiveObserver: more of your foul mouth, showing off in spanish.
@@ThePassiveObserver Roger I know that you won't reply because you are the one full of shit, but I'll ask you regardless, what is the Bishop saying that you have a problem with?
You see anyone can make a claim that one is talking shit but proving it is far different.. If you dont reply or reply with an ad hominem will know who the full of shit is.
@@ThePassiveObserver kid, the question was "what is the Bishop saying that you have a problem with", and you responded with nonsense that have no correlation with what the Bishop is addressing in this video and making ad hominems, which proves what I already knew, you are full of shit!
Now about your opinion on the catholic church, you are ignorant so you are not to be taken seriously, you are like the kid who has never taken math and is trying to judge a math book...
But the fact that you are here listening to Bishop Barron is good, and the reason you are angry is because you can't really counter his knowledge so you decide to attack on what you think you know.
Keep on watching Bishop Barron and you will eventually realize that you are wrong about Catholicism and truth..
Congrats on taking this initiative , critique it all you want, just do it with your head not your feelings and you will get to the truth...
@@ThePassiveObserver Brother, God bless you. I know that little will matter what you can say, however you have to know that what people say about others does not say anything about others, since they are personal opinions. But about the one who says a lot, because being able to know how to decant the experiences that go through your personal filter can give us a pretty clear idea of who you are. So beware of insulting, since that speaks more of you than of the other person. With what objective do you take the time to write these things? Undoubtedly you are full of affective needs, and you expect to hurt some susceptibilities of people who seem happy is not it? I hope you can understand it. Greetings from Argentina
Bishop Barron, I would like to echo the many requests you've received from your social media followers. Please have your team arrange a talk between you and Jordan Peterson. I personally enjoy Jordan's perspective on religion, and find his talks very insightful and educational. I also am a huge fan of yours and all the work you do for Christ and his Church. I will be patiently waiting for this event to happen. Thank you and God bless you!
Thank you, Bishop! Your faith and Peterson's neet arguments. combined with your true spirit to challenge in a debate, are lights in this chaotic world in which freedom is wrongly interpreted as a no-rules and all-permitted world, taking away responsibility and commitment from every choice made. May God bring you His Holy Gifts, for continuing your ministry and spreading the fire of The Word!
I love JP’s approach. I think he’s great for those who think religion is unreasonable and for believers like myself he presents a fresh way of seeing religion that can help me relate to others. And I love the way he connects identity politics to what happened with communism in the past. For those Catholics who are super upset with JP, I don’t get it bc I’ve seen in video comments that people who started listening to him started attending church and one person even mentioned joining RCIA! Just bc he doesn’t have the fullness of the truth doesn’t mean he’s not communicating truth in a powerful way.
I do wish he'd get back to his Bible study...his Bible lectures.
Fullness of truth or fullness of belief? What you believe is only the truth for you and others like you but without proof it remains simply belief.
Peterson needs to do more reading on theology and religion. His thoughts on religion are half baked right now.
True that..
You should talk to Pastor/CZcamsr Paul Vanderklay he's interesting in his own right but he has been following JBPs work for quite some time now. Could be very interesting....
I agree. I think Paul's discussion of discovering "God from below" vs "God from above" would make for an interesting contribution to this discussion.
I fourth this motion!
czcams.com/video/T-wKzkEy9XU/video.html One of the best and most recent videos of Paul VanderKlay. He is really bringing it all together. He's the best right now... check him out on this one.
@@jennytr5056 can you send the link to this video please?
Great points. I look forward to any discussion between the two or three of you.
Soooooo happy to see the return to this format.
Bishop Barron, if you'll entertain a third hand perspective, I've listened to Peterson A LOT. So, I'd like to offer my opinion if it's worth anything to you. I find it very clear that Peterson does not at all dismiss the idea that God is a metaphysical reality. He's been pressed on the resurrection of Jesus for example, as a physical phenomenon. He explicitly leaves room for that in his answers. Of course, he goes into the architypal significance of it. But he says that we simply don't know the upper limits of such a life. Who knows what it could make possible, he says. In his religion lectures, many times he makes it a point to say that he is not trying to be reductionistic about God, to say that God is merely an abstraction. I think, if pressed, he would say he doesn't know, regarding the metaphysics of God.
Ecstatic for the day I get a notification of a BB and JBP 2 hour discussion.
IKR? I think I'd do a number!
Bishop Baron and Jordan Peterson are great inspirations for me. I would really enjoy watching an extended conversation between them.
Thank you your Grace, for your constant enlightenment.
An excellent finding and good comment on the updated version of the Kant philosophy professed by Prof. Peterson. I for one find the evidence as compelling. Big thanks, and God Bless
See if you can get Ben or Dave to arrange a conversation between you and Jordan, _please._
Lord please make it happen!
GDDM sam id rather hear them talk than read your bullshit and so would everybody else, so thats why!
Please Please Please find a way to do a long form interview with Jordan Peterson.
Thank you for these videos Bishop Barron!
Brilliant! Barron and Peterson, two great thinkers and explainers.
As a huge fan of Jordan Peterson but an even bigger fan of Jesus, I agree strongly with your criticism both positive and negative. I do hope you speak with JBP soon.
Peterson is making people re-think their position on religion. I have.
Maybe he'll give the subject some rational thought himself someday. As things stand, he just becomes intellectually vacuous when discussing religion. But then again, religion does make people stupid.
There is nothing to rethink, religions are unsubstantiated bullshit.
@@agnosticatheist7529 While true, if you treat them like any other literature as JBP says, there's a lot to take away.
@@dee-wreck What are you talking about? Half the stories in the Bible are ridiculous. The only way someone could take anything away from those asinine tales is by cherry picking -- weeding out the asinine and insane.
@@agnosticatheist7529 Statements like "the only way" are indicative of a lack of imagination. Don't advertise that about yourself so carelessly and you'll find healthier conversations in the future.
Very Helpful. Thank you, Bishop Barron!
Please have this conversation with him Bishop Baron. I look forward to seeing the conversation on CZcams.
I don't think Peterson wants to show his cards on whether he feels their is a reality - God as a person - behind the archetypes. I think he feels that an affirmative answer would reduce his opportunities for a dialogue with atheists and agnostics. He has said he believes we all possess "a spark of the divine" which goes a long way toward answering the question.
Couldn’t agree more, I think he stays a step back to try to leave the conversation open. Otherwise stating his own personal opinion would just get many to close out.
You can also see him do this with a few other topics and it kinda sucks to not get the deeper thoughts, ones that he knows if he says would be too offensive etc (ie truth hurts).
Agreed, and maybe he’s not sure. Maybe it’s a question he’s still wrestling with...
@Pusalieth sure. But I don't see Peterson as a gnostic.
A longtime fan of the new atheists, Jordan Peterson brought me back to Christianity through contemplation of its archetypes. In the same way so many in Jewish tradition celebrate the archetypes and traditions without pressing each other on individual interpretations of faith, I believe such approach would likewise help to bring fellow Christians together.
caveman Versace him holding back was more in reference to every other topic he covers other than religion. Like the link between empowered women and the death of society, lower fertility rates, degradation of morals, etc etc. he individually calls all these things out yet won’t link them together, I feel, simply as to not offend anyone. Regardless others can piece it together I suppose.
Amen...
Bless you Bishop Barron always giving insight to a very serious reasoning of the truth ❤
Bishop Barron and Dr Peterson in conversation might break the internet with its awesomeness!!!
I think Peterson is still working it out he is very thoughtful. If you watch his talks especially during Q&A he is careful with his answers. His critics often slam him for overly qualifying questions and definitions,but they mistake his thoughtfulness and carefulness. He did a lengthy interview with Patrick Coffin czcams.com/video/W5iaERTETvE/video.html
Didn't he say that he saw something like a three year period before he could get more deeply into the great answers to the great questions. A little ED Feser or Bishop Barron on the insights from Aquinas.
Peterson is giving some very interesting speeches on religion
Truly interesting, deep and thought provoking. Thank you, Bishop Barron
I love you Bp Barron. I agree with many. You, JP and David Ruben. I pray for JP’s conversion of heart.
Douglas Murray moderated the debate.
I would LOVE to hear your thoughts on Murray. He's an atheist and more concerned with politics, but he often stresses that he (and all Western atheists) are Christian atheists in their heritage and worldview.
wouldn't go anywhere. Douglas is too diplomatic to engage into controversy with Catholics.
@@PurpleWarlock You're right
Douglas Murray is a proto-fascist using religion as a noble lie.
@@johnjacob5990: garbage hiding behind specious descriptions - you, that is, not DM.
I’m pretty sure Douglass Murray is a Catholic aswell. When he mediates Harris/Peterson he talks about not show horning in religion to him.
I'm an atheist but am open minded if good evidence arises. Does anyone have a good argument for the existence of the Christian God they'd be willing to discuss?
Doubting Thomas
😋
@@hopefull61256 Thomas had the correct response in that story.
Tom Andrews-Well the first question I must ask you is if you are willing to open the door to God and get to know him as your Heavenly Father? If no then there is not much I can do for you but if yes then let me prescribe some spiritual kale:
1. Go down to your local Barnes and Nobles or whatever and pick up a Bible ( KJV, NIV, NKJV, ESV, AMPC....etc.)
2. Before you even open your Bible, go somewhere PRIVATE and pray in the name of Jesus Christ and ask that the truth be shown to you. If you still do not know what to pray for, say aloud the Lords Prayer. (Look it up and its meaning for each verse.)
3.Open up to one of the four Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John) and begin reading.
4. Read the Bible or the Word everyday and pray before each reading.
5. When should you stop reading daily? Until you are dead.
God bless you.
@@joshjohnson3347 I want to be sure that I'm not introducing any bias into my search for truth. Should I also pick up every other religion's holy book and read it every day while praying that religion's prayers?
Tom Andrews-If thats what it takes for YOU to find truth then yes. At least reading the other books. I will suggest this...when you pray, pray and ask for the One True God...while you read through all those books (Have fun with that by the way).Here is something else. What is the Christian faith based on? The answer: The Resurrection and Cruxifiction That makes Christianity one of the easiest targets. So lead your research in there and see what you find. Islam would agree with you that Christ never died on the Cross but other types of biases may not agree...note that the Koran was founded hundreds of years later.
Also something to note if you have this question on your mind...”Hey Joosh how will I know if God is in my life or present with me or shown Himself to me? “
I have no idea sir or madam. That is for you to decide. Trust me when I tell you it is different for everyone. Though I will give you one warning and it refers to the Gospel. Do not say anything like, “ God of the Bible or Jesus Christ if you are real strike me with lighting”or “make my coffee evaporate!” He is not yours to test and He doesn’t have to do anything for you.
To give you an idea listen to my story. I was beginning to have doubts about the Word and so I prayed that God would help me and relieve me of my doubts. Few days later I was at the bus station and this very long white bus pulls up a few stops over. On its side was very dusty like brown-dirt dusty I guess. But amongst the dust was a symbol smudged into the bus. Take a guess at what it was? It wasnt a lighting bolt, a crescent and star, the Jewish star, a trident, the ying-yang, or some animal head. It was a cross. A white cross amongst the dirt and I understood perfectly why that was but you would have to be me to understand too. It was perfect proof FOR ME but it is appropriate to say that was just a coincidence. But I do not believe it to be so.
One more thing before I go is that it may help you to watch some Christian testimonies to see what Christ feels like fir others. If you read through all this thank you very much. Sorry it was so long. You have a beautiful day Tom Andrews.
Yes, Bishop Barron, you should definitely do a video conversation or something similar with Jordan Peterson.
Bishop Barron..I'm very glad you made a video on this..I watched some of those debates as well and wished you were on that stage to help Peterson's critical point of the Church being here still over 2 millennia. I did my best to bring your point to light in my comment on the church wouldn't have lasted this long if left in the hands of people...not the Jesus Christ Society /organization but an organism
Does everyone believe that religion causes more harm than good? I for one disagree.
Alan Bourbeau I would venture that more believe as you do than don’t
I believe that Christianity causes more good . and for proof , Your poor can live any were in the world chose 8 country's , what there main religion ?
I’d say it depends a lot on how the religion is interpreted. Fundamentalists clearly cause more harm than good - this goes for any religion. One criterium would be if followers of different religions can co-exist in peace.
BVale Since 1979 there has been a significant change regarding islam, with a fundamentalist interpretation being spread from Saudi Arabia/Gulf States (Islamic Revolution Iran, Russian occupation Afghanistan, occupation Grand Mosque Mecca all happened in 1979)
How, exactly, does one quantify harm and quantify good? Especially when much of the good is subjective and fuzzy. And a number of actions might be deemed "harmful" or "good" (or some of both) depending on the judgement of the assessor.
A big benefit of religion is how it makes us feel. How many happy points equate to the harm points of a person burned as a witch? (No, not 3 centuries ago. Current day Africa.)
Religion provides a structure for charitable funds to be raised and dispersed. And feeding and clothing people is a major good. But is it "religion" doing that? Or religious people? Or just ... people?
Where do you draw the line between "religion" ... and the people in the religion?
This charity COULD (probably) be achieved by secular groups. "Ah, but it's not. Or not nearly the same scale." you say? Well, if religion hadn't been there as a "oh, you want to feed the hungry? Well religion has a thing in place for that. So you, nice person, give your money to the religion. They'll buy & distribute the food." But nice people could find non-religious means. And, increasingly, are.
If both sides in a war (or battle...or argument) are religious...does "religion" get "harm points" from both sides in the conflict? Or does one side get to claim "happy" points? Why? Because they're fighting for the "right" side? For the "good guys"? Or is /your/ religion?
I'm not taking a side. In this post, at least. I''m an atheist. But I acknowledge that religions have done both harm AND good. And that, without religion, our society would not be where it is. For better AND for worse.
Think you should talk about Milo Yianapolous. That punk once said Pope Francis is not his pope. He is a gay and claims that he was abused by the clergy. He has got lot of support among American conservatives
Hardly surprising. The Catholic church, for millennia, basically ran their organization like a huge international pedophile ring.
The lives they ruined are countless.
Countless? name 3.
@@elizabetamedvedeva
The victims were children you moron. Its not like the church kept records, and the courts dont release the names. You're jumping to the defense of pedophiles. You need to take a long, hard look at yourself.
Here's something to get you started though.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6026962/
@@elizabetamedvedeva
Here's a fresh one for you..
czcams.com/video/FpoBCJ9pfts/video.html
Whats the matter? Cat got your tongue?
Bishop Barron, you have to get your team to do whatever they need to in order to get a conversation between yourself and Jordan Peterson on this channel. You’ve binged his videos, you know he’ll sit down with anyone within earshot. I would *love* a dialogue between you two. God bless.
I cannot tell you how much I want Bishop Barron to talk with Peterson! Two of my intellectual heroes...
#BarronForPope
Please excommunicate governor cuomo from New York
@Carlos A: The publicity of such a high-profile excommunication would be impactful; that said the relevant canons of Canon Law may be intepreted broadly such that he will automatically be excommunicated 'latae sententiae' when the first abortion under this horrific legislation actually happens - as will be the case for any catholic woman, doctor or nurse procuring an abortion.
He's calling for mass murder just like Hitler did.
This is an excellent analysis. As a non-believer, I like how Peterson tries to figure out the inherent wisdom in Scripture ( and not just the Christian stories). This makes sense. Scriptural accounts are ancient and pervasive. We have clung to them because they attempt to enhance our survival and reduce our suffering in an often hostile world. Peterson puts scriptural accounts into meaningful origin scenarios.
Regarding your last point/question... You would certainly not be the first to press him on that! It would be fascinating to see where the conversation would go. Huge fan of both of you! Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Slavery, genocide and ,violence which SEEMED to be condoned in parts of the Bible?? Seemed to be condoned? really?
LOL right....it wasn't just condoned it was commanded by god himself.
Faith relies upon reason. It's unhelpful and unintelligent to perpetuate the meme that science is the domain of reason, faith the domain of religion; and that the two are opposed; and one superior to the other. It's just nonsense.
Please indicate how faith relies on reason.
@@dozog: Dozo, don't be a lazy Bozo: read St Aquinas and St Augustin, and then subsequent thinkers in the Western schools of thought. Then try Kant, though I doubt you will get through 5 pages of it.
@@elizabetamedvedeva Great argument. Oh wait.. it was just a series of ad hominem attacks.
Chris made a claim, I merely asked him or her to clarify the claim.
@@elizabetamedvedeva Read Chris comment again.
He/she can't even state the meme correctly.
@@dozog Hahaha, i only see it after you say it.
He say water is domain of fish, but birds are domain of air.
I would love to see an interview with you both. Aquinas' transcendent being at the ground of existence is positively bursting through the good professor Peterson's moral call. But I think it will be in the future a bit of a ways if I understood his shorter term plans.
Thank you so much, Bishop, you are an anchor from Church when navigating the web. Please, could you talk about the books from Luigi Giussani?
I find Sam Harris pretty boring !
Jarrid Gable agreed. I can’t believe I fell for some of his shit.
“You aren’t a self”
NICK OEFFINGER
That’s the worst, when you deny the self/soul, your identity gets wrapped in factors you can’t control, hence identity politics, and the group affiliation found on the left.
Ludwig Schwarzwälder times ten!
That's OK, he finds you boring too.
Try Thinking For a change Thank God for that.
If you don't like Sam Harris, try Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins, Danial Dennet, Lawrence Krauss, Neil deGrasse Tyson, Stephen Fry and many more intelligent thinkers.
OR Just keep believing that nonsense you follow in the bible.
Your choice.
Well, that's what I call a convincing argument.
@@BishopBarron If you don't leave the Catholic Church even after it's been revealed that they're a child molestation cover-up cult; like the mafia, everyone is dirty there (and likely has been for centuries). What even could convince you?
Dawkins? You mean the Biologist who tried writing a Philosophy book (God Delusion) and was panned by actual philosophers, including atheistic academics, for his amateur arguments? Ah yes, real intellectual powerhouse right there.
@@BishopBarron well said bishop, the ignorance of that statement is incredible. Thank god for the gift of faith. Thank god for loving us, even while we were still sinners.
one fifth of the worlds population is catholic. Therefore its full of sinners.
Great talk . Groovy music
I like what was said at the end. I have great respect for Jordan Peterson, and think he is bang on about a lot of things. He resonates because he is giving people a framework for living there the Church doesn't seem to be doing.
Stephen Colbert should have Bishop Barron on his late night show and he has has religious discussions with Ricky Gervais and talked about his Catholic faith occasionally. It’s enlightening to hear these kinds of talks on shows that usually don’t discuss the eternal.
Great analysis Bp Barron! Interestingly, Peter Kreeft considers Kant as a crucial pioneer of modern relativism.
Anyway, I would love you to comment on Paul Ricoeur and his thoughts on the hermeneutic of suspicion vs faith, the masters of the school of suspicion...so fascinating and it helps us understand the modern mind.
I'm happy to see this sort of nonconfrontational content concerning atheism. It so easily devolves into battles and rhetorics rather than dialogue, and while both are maybe necessary, dialogue seems more lacking these days, especially online.
As a quite convinced atheist, I agree with much of what Sam says (but far from all of it), and Jordan's points on religion tend to seem contrived to me, but I'm happy to see their dialogue and this commentary.
I found this a very interesting presentation and enjoyed listening to it very much. Barron speaks with great clarity and I must listen to some more of his thoughts in his other clips. As for Peterson and Harris, I also really enjoy listening to them and reading their books. They are both very intelligent individuals. They are also very decent people, in my view, and are always worth listening to. I don’t always agree with either of them but that doesn’t matter at all. I haven’t come across a ‘prophet’ yet and I don’t think that I’m likely to do so in the near future, lol.
There is a tendency for people to seek out prophets and it frequently results in people becoming needlessly protective when they think that they’ve found one. It also has the unfortunate effect of letting some celebrity individuals begin to think that they are cleverer than they actually are, but that’s another story.
Anyway, I’m prompted to put in my pennyworth, for what it’s worth, as I do like to test my own thinking whenever I get the chance, so here goes.
0:47 - 1.39 - Barron’s characterisation of Harris is not quite accurate. Christianity is the predominant belief system in the United States and so it’s inevitable that one of Harris’s first ‘intellectual battles’ will be to challenge many of the assumptions made by Christians. Harris puts forward two main assertions. Firstly, that there is no compelling evidence for the existence of the ‘super-natural’. Secondly, the scriptures do not hold any special capacity in determining morality, (Peterson challenges this second one). When Harris is talking about the dogma and lack of critical thinking amongst people of faith, he is usually responding to the blind assertions offered by apologists. He would argue that if people choose to believe in fairy tales, perhaps because it gives them comfort and other forms of sustenance, then that fine. It’s when those people think that it’s okay to impose their beliefs on others that we get problems and that, I think Barron would concede, is what has led to appalling instances of oppression throughout history. Now, I add a caveat here. I’m not arguing that the religious belief is the problem. The problem is that most religions are also powerful ideologies and so those in positions of power and authority will use religious ideology as a means of control. In a nutshell, “I am the King because God said so”.
2:16 - What on earth is ‘chaotic relativism’? I don’t think Harris is a relativist although he would certainly acknowledge that people from different cultures can have very different perspectives when it comes to certain moral questions - women’s rights, gay rights, etc, On the contrary, Harris believes that there are many common views about what is right or wrong, (desirable or undesirable), amongst all cultures and religious ideologies. He believes that these common views are the result of our evolutionary development as social creatures - creatures that need to be able to get on with one another. Peterson, on the other hand, (if I have understood him correctly), takes the view that these common views are embedded within the Christian belief. He is convinced that Harris is ‘deep down’, a Christian but doesn’t realise it, lol.
Peterson does, indeed, have problems with post modernism and leftist ideology. But he has never, to my knowledge, actually argued his case properly with either post modernists or people from the left, (the silly discussion with Cathy Newman could not be a considered an example). Peterson seems to argue that the scriptures hold, within their narratives, very powerful ideas that underpin Harris’s views on morality. I think Peterson has a point but not the point that he thinks he has. It seems to me that the scriptures contain very valuable reflections on the part of wise men who lived a long time ago on such things as human nature and man’s relationship with the world. Sadly, we glean very little about the reflections of women about these things. Just imagine how much more interesting the scriptures might have been had there been more female contributors.
By the way, Peterson says different things to different people when it comes to his belief or otherwise in the supernatural. His usual answer is that he acts as if there is a God. I don’t personally find that a very useful answer and when talking to a Christian, he doesn’t seem to have any difficulty is describing himself as a ‘Protestant’. But it doesn’t really matter. The main trust of his argument, (and he may be right), is that religion and Christianity in particular has always been and will always be the main driver underpinning morality in Western societies. He is entitled to his view, of course. But Harris is equally confident that we could determine what is good or desirable and bad or undesirable by means of rational discussion and consensus. Whether we ever will, of course, is another matter.
4:17 - I think that we should always use caution when comparing modern thinkers with philosophers from earlier centuries. Philosophers like Kant were a product of their time, as were the unknown men, (including Jesus), who contributed their thoughts and ideas in the scriptures. They are all worth reading about because of their insights into human nature and their relationship with the society in which they lived and the universe as they understood it at the time. But Kant knew nothing of Darwin’s Theory of Evolution which has been a complete game changer in terms of the information available to people wishing to think about the world. A super-natural divine being is no longer a necessity in explaining what we see around us. Before Darwin, it was perfectly reasonable for intelligent people to conclude that there must be a divine being behind the beauty and complexity of the world. This is no longer the case and so we have no idea what Kant, or any other thinker from past centuries, would have concluded had they been familiar with Darwin’s theory.
Peterson is right, in my view, to look back for clues as to why we are as we are and what might be good or bad for us. But that process doesn’t and shouldn’t aim to usurp that which we know from our present-day experiences and knowledge. Harris is convinced, as I am, that human beings are perfectly capable of determining what’s right and wrong without religious belief and the views of people in the past as valuable as they might be. Peterson is also right to argue that Harris, like all of us, are profoundly influenced by the ideas from the past, including the scriptures, and that is how it should be. That doesn’t mean that Harris is a closet Christian. That’s just silly.
Actually, Barron would NEVER concede that superstitions should not be foisted off on thinking persons. Witness his opposition to insurance-paid contraception, marriage equality for all, reproductive rights for all, death with dignity for all, stem cell-based medicines, and finally his opposition to the right of adult survivors of child rape to seek redress in the courts.
@@alexanderborodin5807 Well, thank you for that. If what you say is true, which it probably is, then I’m likely to disagree with Barron on many issues. However, as a fellow human being as well as a Catholic Bishop, he’s perfectly entitled to his personal opinions and so I’m happy to stick to what he actually says in his clips, at least for the time being.
Back to the old format! YAY!
Many have tried to press JP on this definition of God... Don't think it's doable. Always a pleasure listening to you Bishop Barron - signed - Sam Harris fan.
OMG when is this Peterson-Barron interview happening?! We need it now :)
A very nice analysis, sir, thank you!
Padre que Dios le bendiga y continué compartiendo con nosotros muchas cosas interesantes de nuestro Catolisimos.
Seria un bendición que se tradujera al Castellano sus palabras.
Paz y bien en Colombia le admiramos y le seguimos fervientemente.
Muchísimas gracias, John.
Thank God for Bp Barron a man with a heart and a head!
A conversation between the Bishop and Greg Johnson on JFG Livestreams would be brilliant.
I would love to see Bishop Barron and Jordan Peterson have a talk or debate. That would be awesome!
Jordan Peterson might not be a believer but He is a true seeker...not trying to escape
Where's the fund / donation page to make this discussion happen? I am ready to pay for it :)
Honestly I didn't knew Bishop Barron till this popped up in my recommended. But this solely video was enough to make me like him. He seems quite reasonable and well-read, and as a fan of Sam Harris, I love finding religious people with those features. Definitely going to look more of his stuff on this channel. I hope to find my fourth favorite Christian (after Edward Feser, Alvin Plantinga, and David Bentley Hart).
Great video!
Hey Internet Bish, they both have,and demonstrate, great respect for the scholarship, insight and intellectual honesty of each other. They "steel man" each other's argument and grapple with surgical precision with other's views. Spellbinding stuff. It was Sam Harris who introduced me to Jordan Peterson, which in turn lead me here 🌞
Great explanation!
Really cool, Bishop Barron!
Would LOVE to hear you talk with Peterson....
Bishop Barren,
Please sit down with Jordan Peterson. What a powerhouse of intellectuals that would be.
Sounds like an interview should be in the mix.
I am wondering how we as a church are self examining. How well do we learn from critique
Any chance there is a review of the Sunset Limited movie by the bishop?
Good job Bishop. While I'm not always a fan of Jordan Peterson I do respect his intellect.
Great video!!! ⛪️
Extraordinary presentation. Do we need new arguments for a new era? Has the humean divide materialized through a dichotomized laplanck-Newtonian view?
I don't think so. Modern arguments for modern materialism are not new, they've been around for 5000 years. In times of relative prosperity, materialism just seems more appealing. - that's my read on the situation, at least.
Please bring Dr.Jordan Peterson on Word on Fire 🕊🦞
Peterson and Bishop Barron, lets get them together!
Greetings Bishop! I think it would be splendid if you began interviewing individuals like Jordan Peterson as part of your own new show. Don't wait to be invited; start inviting. :) Peace be with you.
I’d love to hear Bishop Barren and JBP on the same stage!
“If one is to do good, he must have a little courage, be ready for sacrifice, deal affably with all and never slight anybody. By following this method I have always had significant success, in fact, marvelous success.” St. John Bosco please pray for us
His practical psychology is .. sans le bon Dieu... practically shouting Aristotle's and Aquinas' "Pure Act"..transcendent being at the ground our our and all existence when we are in that state of full involvement. Aquinas opens that door to the intellect as I was so happy to discover in philosophy classes. You can indeed prove the existence of God and quite easily. I'd expect to see the good professor moving into this area in about two to three years as I heard him mention that to Patrick Coffin as I recall.
LOVE this picture. Big fan of these two :) 6:52
That'd be a good conversation
Jordan Peterson is one of the greatest minds of our time.
I would really love to see something more long-form from Bishop Barron on this and many other subjects. While the point is well received, i would happily listen to an hour or two diving deeper into the debates and the underlying ideas and contexts in which they are being held. I think the takeaway here is that there is a vacant Bishop Robert Barron size seat at his table that is begging to be filled
Barron & Peterson better than any pay per view event! if Peterson adds the essential ingredient, LOVE to his narrative when speaking about the Epiphany that is Christ and His bride the Church... then Peterson is one step closer to the kingdom of God
Excellent.
I would give everything to watch a debate betwen Peterson and bishop Barron...