Testing an ‘A’ Type RCBO 10 Times and NOT the Standard 5 Tests to Prove the Effectiveness of the RCD
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- čas přidán 27. 07. 2019
- In this video we show how to test an ‘A’ type RCD but not 5 times as standard practice but 10 times. We show how to test this ‘A’ type RCBO with our Megger MFT set on the AC setting and then test it 5 times. Next on the Megger MFT we select the ‘A’ setting RCD function and test the RCBO again a further 5 times.
We would carry this test out 10 times on any ‘A’ type RCD and NOT just because it is a Wylex one with our learners at Tresham College.
Socket outlets rated up to and including 32 amp under the 18th Edition Wiring Regulations BS 7671 require additional protection by an RCD rated at 30mA or less.
Also under the 18th Edition Wiring Regulations BS 7671 all RCD’s require functional testing at a maximum of every 6 months intervals.
🔵 UPDATE guidance - BS 7671 Testing RCD’s - Regardless of the Type of RCD Test it as if it is an AC RCD at x1 ONLY • BS 7671 Testing RCD’s ...
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UPDATE guidance
BS 7671 Testing RCD’s - Regardless of the Type of RCD Test it as if it is an AC RCD at x1 ONLY
czcams.com/video/zIPgYcLdQZE/video.html
Thank you for this update, people just don't do this causing confusion around regulated changes. My attention was drawn to this site by one of our apprentices who gleefully informed me I was totally wrong because your video said so! well I can inform him of his mistake of attention to detail and recommend he reads you updates. The problem with other sites like yours especially Q&A sites and discussion sites is they can be outdated or just best guesses to how someone thinks it should be done (ie not following guidance notes etc). And as I've stated sparks in training are following them thinking they are correct, obviously creating an issue on an issue, truly believing in their abilities. so again thank you for clarifying the possible lack of clarity in your video and then noting those changes in your update.
Hi, great video again 👍🏼. Personally I would record the highest of the x5 150ma. As 30ma RCD’s are for additional protection. I also still cannot believe that electricians are still installing AC type RCD’s. British Gas are still installing AC RCD’s Chint boards in my area. Knowing what I know now, it’s madness. Keep up the good work guys in educating & helping sparks
Another interesting and informative video 👍
Thanks for that informative video.
Nice one lads, good piece of information. 👍
Good vid chaps. I hadn't thought about it, but I guess a tester set to Type-A performs the test with a DC component injected, so it makes sense to repeat the tests on the AC setting to ensure it behaves as expected. I use Easycert which dropped the 1x test column when 18th came in and put that flimmin' AFDD checkbox in there. I believe Easycert is designed to be compatible with NICEIC's paperwork to allow direct printing from the app, so that suggests NIC no longer have the 1x column. I print my own custom certs, so I haven't seen a blank NIC one to be sure. If they were going to drop a column, I'd rather it was 'number of points served' which isn't on the model forms and I always leave blank as BS7671 doesn't define what a 'point' is, so one installer's count may differ from another's!
Hi David, more good points raised thanks as always. Gaz
@@GSHElectrical Scratch that, points is defined. Not sure how I missed it as I've searched for it before I'm sure!
Dave when are you getting an Instagram account, showing your age bud 😂👍
@@NBundyElectrical Never did figure out Instagram. Unlikely to start now!
David Savery Electrical Services it’s a shame Dave lots of guys are asking if u have an account, just take loads of pictures of the McDonalds hat and u will become insta famous 👌🙌
A good learning video 👍
Thanks for the video. I was under the impression if the RCD was used for additional protection you record the highest at 150 mA and if it was to be used for fault protection record the highest value at 30mA.
You are correct, if RCD is for Additional Protection you record x5 reading, if its for Fault protection you record x1 reading
Great video thanks
Thanks for this helpful video
Can i ask why the 1/2 setting was only tested on 0 degrees? Not a criticism just wondering. Also, surely the function button should be classed as a test? So should it not be 13 in total?
Hi, Great video again. It's my understanding that you recorded the 5x operating time in the single column on the 18th Edition model forms, is this incorrect? If so does it state this in the regs? Thanks in advance.
Yes you are correct, if it is a tncs or tns system and being used as additional protection. I had an niceic assessment last week and this is one of the things that we talked about.
Reg 643.8 states that the effectiveness of the RCD which is providing additional protection has been satisfied by doing a test at 5 times the rated residual operating current and tripping within 40ms. Therefore it is the highest value obtained when doing the 5X test that should be recorded. Other than that, great video as are your others.
Can you please do ramp test also. 🙏 ther is two reading coming on test which one we need to record? Higher or lower value 🤔
Thnx
In 1st test we putting 15ma should not trip and when passing fault of 30ma should rcd trip and you mentioned maximum time of operation 300 where can I get this is it written on rcd or on side guide
Thanks
Those Wylex metal blanks, do they get a good enough earth connection from the case? I would have thought that the lacquer / paint might prevent a good connection, and then there’s an unearthed conductive part of the consumer unit exposed.
ive wondered about this myself. I guess the lacquer isnt considerd an insulator.
If it's a brand new installation a ramp test should always be performed to verify you dont have an overly sensitive device so eleven test for a new installation.
If there are no issues with the half trip then that ramp test is not required
Can you test a B Type RCD, for EVSE charger? There are some cheap chinese options ~90 usd and I'm curious if it works.
Nice. what would be the reading of testing IR of low voltage cable (3X240mm) with a length of 300 meters ? and which value of M Ohms (for this length )i should expect if tested with 500V DC megger ? i have made my test and having a doubt about it. thank you for providing free information
Great video. Are the old multi functional testers capable of testing these type A rcd i.e fluke 1653 🤞🏻
Yes they are. I have a 1653 and you just use F3 to cycle through the types and F1 for the tripping current
kevy427 cheers thanks for the reply 👍
Any one had a problem, testing Hager RCD’s? Tested 6 recently all new type A and readings coming out at 136ish mA? Cheers guys great videos
This may help
czcams.com/video/c0dPUf_aZ4E/video.html
All the best Gaz
I have had this issue aswell nick spoken to someone from select who on the committee first the 18th they are looking into this
136ms is quick enough. Why is it a problem?
It’s not a problem just the other type of hager rcds would trip max around 32 and new ones are a lot higher just didn’t know if there was a different method of testing them
@@NBundyElectrical 18th edition always said at a current equal to or higher than 5x current, before Hager even released the new notes regarding 250mA.
Actually I think it was in all the other regs but we popularised 5x for many years and not realising we can go higher
Is it acceptable to test the device without the circuit connected to it.
Thanks. So should we test type B RCCB 20 times then?
That’s a great question and as always we are looking to manufactures for guidance.
Class A GFCI breakers and receptacles in North America trigger at 5 mA +/- 1 mA in 25 ms. Class C (for over 300 volts) trigger between 15 and 20 mA. In Britian 10 mA trigger RDC receptacles are available, but 30mA is more common.
Many recent Class A GFCIs trip much faster 4-6ms.
Brilliant video
It's not controversial if you respect and understand the science behind the 2 tyoes of the RCDs and it's electochenical characteristics
Keep up the phenomenal work
You should have tested on the 1/2 times at 0d and 180d as for the 1 times and 5 times test
Hi, I am a recently established European Electrician in Livingston, and I want to work as a Self Employer in Scotland. What do I have to do to get the Gold Card? Thanks
Great question and one I cannot answer try google and I am sorry I couldn’t help. Gaz
Hi Gary call me fick if you want but as the test instruments are battery powered they put out DC test currents, so why is it a problem. Testing AC or DC type RCDs/RCBOs?
I heard that some RCDS do not funktion properly if there's a DC leakage from say a car eV charger if that's the case then shorly a tester will not trip the RCD anyway as it puts out a DC current?
czcams.com/video/9qX89cPGgp4/video.html
This may help 🦾.
@@GSHElectrical thank you very informative but it still doesn't explain how a RCD tester does not have the same effect on the RCD and it will still trip the RCD, as the demonstration show the RCD is flooded with a DC current and won't opporate yet when more DC current is injected from the test instrument the RCD does trip indicating a problem of some kind.
Or am I missing something. Great video thank you
Niceic certificates/reports do not have the 2 columns for rcd measurements, only 1 in line with the model forms of bs7671.
No controversy here 👀👀
Hi. We started that fact in the video. Thanks for watching and commenting Gaz 👍
GSH Electrical you said 2 columns still for Niceic, Napit at the beginning.
Just pointing out Niceic only have the 1, can’t say for the rest 😀
Correct me if I’m wrong but that RCBO is labelled as type B 32 or all RCDs / RCBOs or are they all labelled that way ie B6 B 32 and so on irrespective of the type? I always thought B32 or what ever means it’s a type B ?
Type B refers to the trip curve, overload current not the type of RCBO trip
Hi I’m very happy . Your way of teaching is very nice. But tell me how to fill full certificate step by step please . Thanks. I will wait for your response. Thanks
Hi. Checkout CZcams Channel John Ward for filling in certification 👍. Thanks Gaz
Go to College and learn then get site/House experience for about five years, then start filling out forms
@@matthewdale956 . I just finished my level 3 from college. I know how to fill. But I never did at site. I don't have experience.
manjeet singh ok,well I hope you manage to get a job with someone then, John Ward videos are very good as are David Savery
We were taught to test 1/2 times on both angles, not recommended now ?
9 Plus Instalaciones you can always go beyond the minimum requirements 👍...
@@GSHElectrical yes of course if I'm understanding you you're doing 5 RCD tests ? 1/2 / x1 / x5 on 0°/180° that's the 6 I was talking about
Good video didn’t jw do a vid on some a type rcd s not tripping properly
Hi, JW is currently looking at injecting DC into an AC type RCD and what happens. Thanks for commenting and watching. Gaz
GN3 states “For each of the tests, readings should be taken on both positive and negative half-cycles and the longer operating time recorded”
Won’t that be six tests (0.5, x1, x5) plus the functional button pressing i.e. seven tests in total for the AC then seven more for the A?
Wondering why you didn’t test 180° on the x0.5? #E5
I'm glad you said this. I immediately thought this too. As you stated: 3 tests on both sides of the sine wave = 6 tests, plus test button functional test = 7 tests. Please advise if we're missing something here Gaz. Ta👍
You would only press the functional test button once ..... surely? So just to add to the dispute or ‘controversy ‘ , it is actually 13 tests in total ? The functional button operates internally irrespective of the test configuration on the mft. Although is it functionally testing the ac or dc side of the rcd? Or both?
@@adrianajdelectricals2290 exactly right.
Useful but one to be watched on youtube's double speed.
Really like your videos, I think they are great. But why are you testing type AC RCD when you have a type A RCD? There is no need for it. It is not that type A trips for a different reason compared to type AC RCD. The reason why type A RCD is sometimes selected is that it will still trip if there is a presence of pulsating DC up to 6mA. Type A RCD won't trip on DC, but it will trip on fault conditions on AC circuit if DC is present. DC can stop Type AC RCD working properly in fault conditions. That is why they are selected for car chargers, washing machines computers etc. For example electric car chargers (EVSE) can't be installed with Type AC RCD because the car could leak DC but can be instslled with type A RCD if the unit can detect DC current over 6mA and disconnect supply if that happens. Otherwise type B RCD would be required. Just for the interest - how many times would you test type F RCD? And Type B RCD?
Thanks for the detailed message and watching. We are going on guidance from an NICEIC field engineer and chats with manufacturers. Hopefully more guidance from BS7671 will follow on testing RCDs. All the best. Gaz 👍
@@GSHElectrical why is the half trip current only carried out on one half cycle and not both?
@@GSHElectrical I think the test with the AC type will test the trip speed and the test with the A type will test the trip speed with 6mA induced into it at the same time and that process may cause a different reading which is why manufacturers would say test the invidual parts. But I still don't know why you only did the half trip on one instead of both cycles🤔
Gaz don’t you think you need to update these videos as to amendment 2 , technically this video is redundant , still a useful video though in my opinion. But who am I to argue i’am just a humble spark who’s opinion means nothing
Great video as always 👍👍👍❤️
Remember BS 7671 is the minimum requirement and these test are very useful during fault finding on RCDs
@@GSHElectrical yes I have to agree. That’s why I said I think it’s still a useful video .
Are we good, I hope I haven’t upset or offended you . As You normally gives a better response, I was just thinking how many people will just do the minimum test as there there’s no wear on the certificate to record the 1/2 or 5 times test results? Does make me wonder.
There is no way you need to do this.
First of all, why do none of the tester manufacturers state this in the manuals for the testers if this is the case?
Secondly, I've tested type A accidentally set to type AC and quite often the test fails. This does not prove a fault with the RCD but that the tester is set to the wrong type as then set to type A it passes all tests.
The tester is designed to do the relevant tests needed for a type A when set to type A.
The NICEIC has been known to give wrong advice on more that one occasion so I wouldn't just go by what they say.
If you are going for the highest time then that would be the 1/2 time test. I know it's meaningless but, if your criterion is the highest figure then the 1/2 time must be it. 🤔🙃😜
Poor Joe doing the tests and the writing
The fluke 1664 has a different symbol for A type
Think you better start fitting the RCD type that will trip everything stop making the rest and keep everybody safe A or AC or whatever
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Utter overkill, so a 16 way board is 160 tests on 1 aspect alone, good luck with that one, Recent NICEIC Annual inspection was told to perform a times 1 test on both cycles and put the highest reading on the test sheet, you guys need to remember your not part of the Institution that compiles the regs, unbelievable
UPDATE guidance 👍🏻
BS 7671 Testing RCD’s - Regardless of the Type of RCD Test it as if it is an AC RCD at x1 ONLY
czcams.com/video/zIPgYcLdQZE/video.html
If "requirements" become as stupid as "10 tests per RCB RCBO" then it is not a surprise that amount of fires rises - electricians do idiotic tests, waste valuable time. Time that should be used on something more important.
Just do A type test 1/2, A type 1/1 and the end. Is it even theoretically possible, that 5x will somehow not work if it works at 1/1.