The History of the Commodore Amiga - Rare Jay Miner Speech AmiExpo 1990
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- čas přidán 8. 09. 2020
- Jay Miner is "The Father of the Amiga" This is a rare audio recording of his history of the Amiga speech on March 18th 1990 at AmiExpo East Coast in Washington DC. It is called "The Amiga from the Beginning" I had the pleasure of attending this event and meeting Jay Miner. He enjoyed speaking with members of the Amiga community and was very interested in the user group that I ran called WAUG - The Westchester Amiga User Group. Jay Miner loved user groups and the Amiga community. My dad purchased this audio recording at the end of the event. The tape had been missing in his house for many years - until now. Joe Lowery of AMUSE, who put on AMIExpo, introduces Jay Miner and Mr. Miner speaks about the Amiga's beginning with he and Dave Morse at Hi-toro, their relationship with Commodore, concepts for what he wanted the Amiga to be, the Amiga 1000, 500, and 2000, the history of the custom chips and their function, the history of the boing ball, and so much more. This event is one of my fondest memories. I included all the photos I have from it (which aren't many) including my admission ticket. Being that this is an audio only recording, I wanted some simple visuals to accompany it, so my dad transferred the original audio cassettes to 1/4" open reel. Those are my dad's hands at the beginning and the Dokorder reel to reel machine has been in his basement since I was born. The original recordings weren't very good quality with 60 Hz ground hum, over-modulation, etc.. I re-mastered them the best I could. I think there is something cool about this audio only recording. There is something magical about hearing only Jay Miner's voice. It takes me right back to one of the best days of my life. I hope you enjoy it as well.
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Oh the quality of recording is so much better than I was expecting when I clicked this. Wonderful bit of history Bill!
Thanks so much RMC. I had to fix it up a bit. Lots of 60Hz ground hum and over modulation. But at least it is somewhat easy to listen to now. They #ShouldHaveHiredAmigaBill LOL!!!!!!
Jay Miner's great ideas were 30 years ahead! 💪 🤩
😢
They sure were. He was a visionary
Jay miner was an Arsehole..he basically destroyed Commodore 💀
@@livelongandprosper70 I think you have mistaken him for 'Mehdi Ali'
Sounds like he was a real humble guy with all that brilliance that he tried to share with us....only the marketing people were the actual road blocks .....this is the problem if you are too brilliant at a time when human comprehension has no clue and is yet to catch up......back then this was bleeding edge technology and in many ways still stands up to todays tech.....what an incredible era !!!!
Well said! Jay Miner was brilliant and way ahead of his time
For one hour and seven min I gone 30 years back in time ... Thank you very much !
Well said R Type. I went on the journey too. AMIGA4EVER
I would just like to say a big thank you to jay and everyone involved with the creation of the amiga..My younger life was so much more happier and more entertained with an amiga around..I am 51 years old and still have 3 amiga500s in their original boxes..RIP jay.
Wow, so this is so cool. You would buy a reel to reel tape of a keynote speech instead of waiting for it to be uploaded. Thanks for being there, buying the tape, finding it again, normalizing it, and finally...uploading it! I'm on my 2nd playback. It's so amazing how passionate Jay was about his Amiga. How was it like being there? It's also apparent how selling to Commodore was a double edged sword. The Amiga's cutting edge still prevails years after Commodore failed.
Luv the level of technical Q and A with Jay!
@@AndyDavis007 Thanks so much Andy! It was amazing being there. Very difficult to describe except that you knew you were part of something special. This was peak Amiga time. The Toaster was about to drop, DCTV was just launched, and technology like Mandala was blowing everyone's mind. The tapes we bought were actually cassette tapes. AmigaDad transferred them to 1/4" because I wanted to use the Dokorder as a visual to accompany the speech. The audio was captured right from the cassettes and I had to do a lot of clean up in Audition then I sync it back up with the audio from the 1/4"
Brilliant to hear this Bill, Jay was so dedicated to the Amiga even after he had left it with Commodore. We owe him a lot!
Thanks Graham! Jay was the best and you can really here his passion in this recording.
Back to the past 👍😊
Yes!
The Legend❤️
He is the BEST. A brilliant man and wonderful person. A truly great guy
The Guru Meditation Absolutely, thank you for sharing this video, highly informative and enjoyable to listen to, while driving home from work🙏🏻😁
@@RETROCENGO Ah, that sounds perfect. Enjoy!
I absolutely love this and never heard it before. As an Amiga dealer back in the day right through the Escom years, and a NewTek dealer, this made my heart melt..... except for the guy coughing....
Wow Blaine this is so nice to hear. Thanks so much for the comment!
What a great document! and how lucky to have met him 😍
Such fond memories of my first and second computers (an A-500 in 1991, and later, an A-2000 equipped with a 'PAR Board' -- personal animation recorder.) The Amiga is what got me into 3D object modeling and animation which I've been doing since then (31 years). Deluxe Paint introduced me to digital art. Some of the team that developed VideoScape went on to develop Lightwave 3d specifically for the Amiga platform, which is still my primary 3D app which I started using on a Windows PC back in 2000. My CZcams channel (caddyjoint96) carries twenty of my Lightwave videos including a few of my earliest ones from the 1990s compiled on my Amiga PAR board which dumps to video tape, which I recently digitized into MPEGs in order to upload to CZcams. The Amiga computer will forever remain in my heart.
I've been waiting a few days to listen to this as I wanted to sit down and absorb it without distractions, and indeed this is some very nice commentary from the legendary Jay Miner. Very enjoyable and thank you for the the time it took to restore and produce.
They pleasure was mine Vickie. Glad you enjoyed and hope all is well in Japan!
youtube decided to wait until today to show me this! Thanx a lot for sharing this. very interesting window into that time where my source of information was AmigaFormat and CU Amiga magazines.
Thank you.
Cheers! Thanks for watching
Wow, what a treasure! I cannot thank you enough for sharing this Bill, much love.
This is an amazing historical recording, hearing the passion of Jay and how he clearly enjoyed sharing. What a guy.
Wish I could've been there too. :)
The pleasure is mine. Thanks for the kind words. Jay Miner is my hero. You can absolutely hear his passion for Amiga in this recording. Thanks for all you did Mr. Miner!
Thanks for this awesome recording! Love it!
Jay was a true visionary and an inspiring person with a great sense of humor. People who worked for him all say he was the best boss ever. Definitely one of the true founders of great computer technology and still sadly missed. Rest in peace.
Also: Love the good old reel-to-reel tech. Thumbs up guys!
Thanks for the kind words Pip! I have heard nothing but great things about Jay Miner. He seems like a great person. At that show he actually spent 20 minutes talking to me about our user group. He loved user groups and the Amiga community. Such a good guy. Glad you like the reel to reel. I wanted a cool visual to accompany the audio recording. That machine has been in my family since I was born!
Thank you Bill, Jay was a History maker and this speak is also History in the making over the First super computer. Such a Legend.
Cheers Paul. Thanks so much for watching/listening. Glad you enjoyed it. Jay Miner is the best.
Can you imagine how much better the world would be now, technologically and otherwise, if Jay had the same funding and financial background as Kill Gates back then...?
I wish he did too. Jay was the best
Good guys finish last
Yes in hindsight he was right about many things, such as amiga should have adopted pixel graphics. But he was right on other stuff as well. And yes I visited the commodore booth exhibition at Stockholms Mässan here in Sweden the winter 1993. I had money to buy the next wonder machine but all they had to sell was pins and decals and promoting the CD32. I was not interested in a CD32, I was interested in high end amiga computers but they had none to sell me. Then and there I understood that the story of commodore was coming to an end. And the year after Commodore USA filed for bankruptcy, Commodore UK filed for bankruptcy almost two years after. And I bought my first PC in 2008, after both my 1200 with 1230 33MHz and Amiga 4000 040 overclocked to around 50MHz had given up completely and was beyond repair (trust me I tried to repair them but none of them got to work again because of old repairs and old age). I had been using them every day since the release so they where very, very broken machines. But still to this day I miss the Amiga, both as a game machine and as a publishing machine since I wrote for an amiga associations newspaper for many years.
Not much better. Jay had absolutely no concept of scope or resource shortage.
Absolutely loved this; so rare to find anything from 'the father of the Amiga'
Thanks Timothy. I am so happy and thankful I found this recording. Jay Miner is the best
Oh!
Will watch it later for sure.
Thanks Bill !!!!
Enjoy Vincent. It is a great speech and Q&A as well
Loved it...I think I could listen to Mr. Jay endlessly! :-P What a genius!
Well said and I agree Roar. Jay Miner is my hero
GREAT stuff. Thanks.
My pleasure! Thanks for watching.
When other computers olny promised to be personal but in fact were cold, steel boxes without graphic, audio and fun capabilities...
Amiga simply delivered everything what's in the name. And much more.
I still remember our VIC-20 with cassette drive!
Nice!
Lovely dynamic video wise with just audio available. Thanks!
Thanks Vincent! I wanted to come up with something visually interesting to accompany the audio. Thanks for the kind words!
Thank you for sharing this Bill. What a legend. 👍🕹
Cheers Peri! It is my pleasure. Anything with Jay Miner needs to be preserved and shared!
Interesting interview. He seems a little bitter about Commodore, but at least they kept the machine going. I think when he heard about the AAA chipset and A4000, he was very excited. If only Commodore had the foresight to use his skills, maybe the A4000 would be even greater. Anyway, this is a great part of history you preserved, and thanks a lot for sharing this to the community on Amiga 35 year. :)
My pleasure Dan. He does seem a bit frustrated with Commodore, but his passion for the Amiga is so strong. You can hear it in his voice
I think the Amiga community were also a bit mad a Commodore too. So I can relate to his "bitterness"
@@simonRTJ For sure. We used to discuss this at our WAUG meetings too. Lots of folks were frustrated with Commodore
@@simonRTJ - I was having this conversation recently with Ravi Abbott, as to why there is so much bitterness in the community today. If its all CBM, they were a joke! A laughing stock. Why be so bitter? I guess I answered my question.
Great piece of Amiga history. Thanks for sharing it with us!
My pleasure Andreas! Thanks for watching and for the kind comment
What a man !! its always a pleasure a video from the Gurus!! Thanks guys!
Thanks so much Max! Really appreciate your kind comment.
This was so enjoyable, I love it !!! Glad the tapes were found and remastered. The reel to reel really added great appeal to the whole experience. Thanks so much for posting this presentation. Parallel Multiprocessing and Preemptive Multitasking OS was an amazing thing to have in a personal computer at that time. So much potential that lost momentum due to poor leadership and bad marketing decisions. That really ate at Jay's core till the day he passed. RIP Jay Miner.
Cheers William. So glad you enjoyed the recording and the 1/4" reel to reel. I wanted to make something visually interesting to accompany the studio. Glad you like it!
Great video guys. It was a pleasure to listen to. Its depressing to think how much they knew marketing was failing them. Wonder why they didn't advertise any of the Amigas strengths? Anyways. Makes me appreciate how good the chips were back then and the thought that went into making them combined with the pricing. Some people rag on the Amiga because it couldn't compete with a Sharp X86000, but then it didn't cost nearly as much either! You got a lot of bang for your buck.
Our pleasure Trydowave. I am glad you enjoyed it. Yes, it must have been very frustrating to know how bad the marketing team was failing their very hard and excellent work.
Bless you guys
Aw thank you. We love doing this stuff and preserving the history
Awesome speech from Jay Miner! Thanks so much for sharing.
My pleasure. Jay Miner is the best!
Interesting that we have come full circle.. just look at what apple is doing with extra chips.. like the T2 chip handling a bunch of aux. tasks. Now that they are free to design what they want.. I wouldn't at all be surprised that they took a page from the Amiga playbook.
You may be right about that!
Growing up in Puerto Rico, my mom always made the joke that I was hidden away in my bedroom with my Amiga.
Ha ha! I know the feeling! Now I hide in my office with my Amiga, lol
your mother wasn't a comedian then ?
Thanks so much for unearthing, re-mastering, and preserving this, Bill! And kudos to AmigaDad for having the foresight to purchase it! It's so charming to hear Jay Miner talk about the Amiga like a proud father.
It is my pleasure Dave. I am so happy I found this recording, and yes, AmigaDad was on point when he bought this for me. Who knew I would find it 30 years later and share it with an amazing Amiga community
Glad you found this again, great to hear Jay speak.
I am too. He is the best. You can really hear his passion for Amiga in this presentation
Great Historical Document, Thanks
My pleasure! Thanks so much for watching and the comment
Wow, this is fantastic! Thanks for all your work in cleaning up the audio and sharing it.
My pleasure Alan. It is important to preserve the history and kind comments like your make it all worth it.
Incredible.. thanks for sharing! So sad to think what should have been for the Amiga. Even talking about ray tracing back in 1990 on a home computer. It is now back with the newest GPUs. :-)
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it. It is really amazing how far ahead Amiga was. I will never forget the first time I saw the ray traced juggler animation. Mind blown
Wonderful. Thank you
My pleasure. Thank you for watching!
The bit about the A4000 was funny 🤣
I know, that was hilarious!
Thanks for sharing this piece of history, narrated by the Man himself!
My pleasure. Jay Miner is a special person.
This historical tape of THE Father is awesome! Many thanks Bill for sharing!!
The pleasure is mine Stefano! Thanks for the comment
Three motor, 3 head 7100. Say no more; I'm listening. Many times.
Awesome Andy!
Great show and a great man, thanks for posting it here.
My pleasure Mark! Thanks so much
This is fantastic, it's always a pleasure to hear Jay, thanks for sharing this
You are welcome! Thanks for watching. Anything with Jay Miner needs to be preserved and shared. He is the man
Oh my.... Thanks Bill!
My pleasure! Thank you for watching and for the kind comment.
Incredible historical document - thanks so much for posting!
The pleasure is mine AmigaLove! I am so excited that I found this. And I am thankful to AmigaDad for buying it for me at the show! Who knew how valuable it would be 30 years later
May the Amiga R.I.P. What an amazing machine it was.
Excellent information from our Favorite Amigan! So sad to hear the names of so many that are no longer with us, including Jay himself...
This is a very American perspective of the Amiga, one which I have been trying to convince people of for two years. Sure we played games on our systems, and the Amiga was awesome for that, but these people were using them for business and making missile designs! The questions were about hardware capabilities and designs, not about animated frogs and such. It was just a different perspective of the Amiga here.
I was a bit surprised with the comment about Mexicans not being able to afford the Amiga, but only people with money... That kind of comment would not fly now!
Thanks Doug! I was so happy to find this treasure and equally happy that my dad bought it before we left the show back then. Yeah, I love Amiga games, but my primary use for it was video production. It was the ultimate machine for that too
@10:10 the folly of the financiers/Commodore attempting to save a few dollars at every opportunity is well illustrated here. They already had 512k on the board, but were told to reduce it to save money, which meant completely redesigning the board- before later having to do another workaround to allow 256k to be added to return to the originally intended 512k.
Yes, exactly Dan
This is amazing.
Listening to this brought me so much joy. Thank you, Amiga Bill!
so awesome. Thanks Bill for this video (AUDIO :) ). Amiga Forever.
The pleasure is mine Santi! Amiga and Jay Miner Rule!
I wonder what he would think about us stuffing Vampires and other accelerators into these machines all these years later? I guess it illustrates he reached his goal of making a clean and highly expandable design... I can't think of similar upgrades made by and for enthusiasts for PCs of the same era.
That is a great question Joshua. I wonder as well. I wish we could know.
I'm only halfway (he's talking about what Commodore should be developing for the future of the Amiga) and, in my humble opinion, I think he would approve of the accelerators, as you say, expanding the computers... but, then again, if he had stayed in control of the development of the Amiga, would we have needed those expansions? (actually, maybe to help the older machines keep up with the newer ones... up to a point...)
@@Breeffeehey I agree. My instincts say we would like them, but if he was still making Amigas we wouldn't need them. The Vampires are meant to be a continuation of 68K.
This is an awesome find. Thank you for the preservation job.
My pleasure! Glad you enjoyed it
@@TheGuruMeditation Keep it up! Following you obviously
@@Noweee Thanks Nowee!
This is fantastic, really enjoyed listening to this!
Awesome! Glad you enjoyed and thanks for watching
Absolutely super awesome!! Thanks for getting this onto CZcams for all to hear.
Always love your work Amiga Bill.
Aw, thank you Aron. I really appreciate that and am glad you enjoyed it
wow this is amazing!
Yeah, I am so excited that I found this. Jay Miner is an amazing person
We should do an animation for this speech. It would look really cool.
That would be very cool. I originally thought about doing that as well, but I don't have the time at the moment, so I just used the reel to reel as the visual and figured folks can treat it as a podcast.
Wow. Very cool. Thanks, Bill.
The pleasure is mine JW Blattboy! You the man!
The capabilities of the Amiga in terms of games really did not become apparent until the 21st century.
Thanks!
My pleasure!
Well done ! .. I am a huge Amiga fan , too. I love J.M. so much.
WOW ! very interesting ! , thanks for share, oh men, you were part of the history, Jay Miner is a Genius , a visionnary for the best computer .
My pleasure Jean! I feel very lucky to have been at this keynote speech. Great memories
The Guru Meditation did you recorded yourself ? , i wish to be here too :)
@@MrThairacer No, there was a professional company that recorded it and my dad bought the tape after the speech was over. However, I re-mastered it before uploading to CZcams because the quality of the recording wasn't very good
"[...] the best Amiga feature of all is its multitasking OS": that's exactly what I thought for years and still believe now.
Long live the Amiga.
My dream revolution AmigaOS4 for future generations GPU vs MICROSOFT, APPLE AND ANDROID. 🙏🤩
Yes!
35:37
Jay's Amiga wishlist!😮
1991 date window
2 to 4x Chips speed/Memory bus bandwidth
4000 (12 bit 4096) simultaneous colors
64000 (16 bit 65536) color palette
64000/65536 color HAM mode
8 sound channels with 56kHz sampling rate
Addressable Chip Ram increased to 8 Megabytes
Addressable Fast Ram increase to 4000 Megabytes (on 68000?)
(68020 and up support 4 Gigabytes)
Man, I feel bad for Jay :/
I know. It is a great list and makes a lot of sense. 8mb Chip RAM, 8 audio channels, WOW!
Vampire 4SA in a nutshell right there... :-)
❤️
- Voice of Amiga -
Yes! And a beautiful voice it is
By March of 1990, they should have been finishing up the 3rd custom chipset for the Amiga. It is a disgrace that in 1990, the original chipset was largely unchanged with only minor upgrades over the 5 years.
wonder if I can call the number at the end and still order additional tapes! hahahaha
Amazing where he saw the chipset going and really interesting how much RAM he says the 68000 can access while the most I've seen the 68k based machines (not the later 020-060 ones) handle is 8MB. But, imagine an 8MB custom chipset!
Ahhh ha ha ha! You should do it. And tell them to hire us! This recording was horrible. I fixed it up the best I could.
The Symbolics 3600 could do 30MB of RAM. www.bitsavers.org/pdf/symbolics/brochures/3600_Jul83.pdf
I love that 4000 name slip up.
I just love that Amiga engineers were thinking about chipset designs back then, of what features we have now in PCs, too bad Commodore fumbled so bad in the Amiga later years.
that was a really funny moment!
20:01 Jay was wrong. The Amiga multitasked fine with 256K of RAM. Obviously the more RAM you have the the more large programs you can run at the same time.
35:42 Commodore actual improved HAM mode more than he expected- in the AGA chipset. The sort of dropped the ball in the audio department. They should have added at least 4 more 16 bit audio channels, minimum. And 8MB of custom-chipset memory never happened.
Yes, it is too bad Paul never really changed since the 1000. That's hard to believe actually.
Fantastic. Did he ever do interviews about the Atari chips? Would love to know things like the process technology used on all his work (how many micrometers and all that, what sort of tools were in use at the time), cost of all those projects (how much money did the Texas investors originally put into Amiga?) Would love to hear about his discussions with Chuck peddle re: 6507.
Amiga was so ahead of it Time and probably one of the reasons it didn’t last.
The devs even programmed software switches, which is the way to go.
Apple’s way of software switches is “we don’t support this machine anymore and if you want to keep getting software updates you need to buy a new machine”
You had me at "Dokorder"!
ty
Jay Miner is the best. Much love
I was in awe when the Amiga first came on the scene.Once the 486 and VGA chunky pixels came on the scene the Amiga was in trouble. Wolf 3d drew me towards the PC and once Doom came out it was over for my Amiga desire. I had a Sega Genesis for gaming and was really happy with it along with my old ST for programming. These held me over until I got my 486. My other friend had a SNES and between both of our consoles no low end Amiga could touch our gaming experience, especially the great Japanese games that were out. A few Amiga fanatics I knew said that the Amiga could do Street Fighter II. They were delusional.. despite their enthusiasm. I think it was really then that I knew the Amiga's good days were over.
czcams.com/video/6n1RRM7H3YE/video.html
czcams.com/video/K4jdNPsbdow/video.html
czcams.com/video/1LXfD3gQZHE/video.html
All three run at 50fps on a 500, guess you're the delusional one.
The high tide of Amiga. 😪
It was. Although lots of exciting stuff happening here in 2020 too!
Only the Amiga makes it "reel" 👍🏻
Ahhhh ha ha ha! Nice one my man!
All of the links I've got on Amiga history:
Amiga Story | Nostalgia Nerd
czcams.com/video/ws3DJF7MbMU/video.html
Amiga Story Part 2 (The 90s) | Nostalgia Nerd
czcams.com/video/BcXcy2b1dRM/video.html
The Last Stand of Jack Tramiel: The Atari ST vs The Commodore Amiga
czcams.com/video/8bMJt65Jm5E/video.html
A history of the Amiga
arstechnica.com/gadgets/2007/07/a-history-of-the-amiga-part-1/
arstechnica.com/gadgets/2007/08/a-history-of-the-amiga-part-2/
arstechnica.com/gadgets/2007/08/a-history-of-the-amiga-part-3/
arstechnica.com/gadgets/2007/10/amiga-history-4-commodore-years/
arstechnica.com/gadgets/2007/12/amiga-history-part-5/
arstechnica.com/gadgets/2008/02/amiga-history-part-6/
arstechnica.com/gadgets/2008/05/amiga-history-part-7/
arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/04/a-history-of-the-amiga-part-9-the-demo-scene/ [misnamed link: actually part 8]
arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/03/a-history-of-the-amiga-part-9-the-video-toaster/
arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/01/a-history-of-the-amiga-part-10-the-downfall-of-commodore/
arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/11/a-history-of-the-amiga-part-11-between-an-escom-and-a-gateway/
arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/03/a-history-of-the-amiga-part-12-red-vs-blue/
Crash And Burn: The Amiga ST Story
Tales From The Dork Web #14
thedorkweb.substack.com/p/crash-and-burn-the-amiga-st-story
Did any of you dial into Jay’s BBS back in the day?
No, I never did. That would have been wonderful
woooow :O
Oh yeah! Jay Mier is the best
Don't forget to credit Joe Lowery of AMUSE, who put on AMIExpo, for his introduction.
Oh wow excellent. I didn't know who that was speaking. I will add it to the description. Thank you Henry!
@@TheGuruMeditation I was a long time AMUSEr! This is a nice talk by Jay, what a generous guy, and like everyone, run over by Commodore. I remember these instant cassette archives - they'd have a cassette duplicator running at the show and print up labels.
@@UUCCKingston Yes! That is exactly how they made the tape and what we purchased. AMUSE was awesome. I only went to a few meetings because I was young and lived in Westchester, but our WAUG group was originally "AMUSE Westchester" then when I took over I re-named it WAUG because the folks from AMUSE left. There are actually some folks from AMUSE who attend our virtual WAUG meetings now. It is very nice
@@TheGuruMeditation The Westchester AMUSE representatives came down occasionally to NYC AMUSE meetings, which originally met at the School for Visual Arts, later at NYU. You guys should do a show on AMUSE of you can track down Joe!
@@UUCCKingston I would love to. I will message the AMUSE mailing list. Is this him? facebook.com/joseph.lowery.14
Bill, i realized nobody did talk about the precursor of Lightwave, Videoscape 3d; care to do a special one day?
That is a great idea! Thanks Simone
31:50 The Amiga audio systems can only play samples that are 68,0000 bytes or less? Huh? Since when? I thought the original A1000 could play samples up to 512K in length.
Do we know why he left Commodore?
"Commodore wanted to close down the Amiga division out here on the West Coast and none of us wanted to move back East so the plant closed and I retired"... Jay's message to Kremlar
www.techav.com/misc/miner.pdf
@@andycraig7734 Thanks for that PDF Andy! Much appreciated!
@@andycraig7734 That is a REALLY cool PDF
Wonder if he gets tired of all the Manic Miner jokes.
the Amiga O.S. is an absolute dog ! truly awful.. even the Atari ST had a faaaar better O.S. GEM desktop with TOS.. ANYTHING is better than Amiga..and yes, i have an amiga 500 plus.