Sonoff matter MINIR4M No-neutral smart switch?
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- čas přidán 1. 07. 2024
- The Sonoff mini-R4 in now available in a "matter" version! This means it's possible to have direct local control, and you don't have to rely on a third party server and app! This means that even if the server goes down, you can still control it locally with Google home, amazon alexa, apple, or any other "matter enabled" devices. You also don't need to flash the firmware to get local control.
Unfortunately, the "mini-R4M matter" is not available in a NO-NEUTRAL version. But I think my updated NO-NEUTRAL circuit, will be a good solution, if you don't have a neutral wire behind your light switch. I know not everyone is comfortable building mains voltage circuits. So If you would like to try my updated version, but don't feel like making your own, I will have a link here, where you can try it out for yourself. ebay link will be updated from time to time www.ebay.co.uk/itm/186231351698
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/186227885482
You can get the Sonoff MINIR4M here itead.cc/ref/169/ and use my coupon at the checkout for a 10% discount MYPROJECTBSONOFF
If you would like support me😉😁
/ myprojectbox
paypal.me/buddymel
revolut.me/roberteygb
The NO-NEUTRAL adaptor kit, consists of two modules, a "neutral splitter" and bypass module. All the wires are clearly labelled for correct termination. The bypass can easily be connected to "most" LED light bulbs and LED lights, but some of the older LED lights are NOT compatible! (the type with capacitor dropper driver)
This circuit hack has been reported to work with many different devices, But I can only verify the ones in this video, and there are definitely devices that don't work!
00:00 Intro
00:14 Sonoff first matter device the MINIR4M now has direct local control without the need for cloud services or apps
00:49 The minir4m still needs a neutral connection to function unfortunately
01:18 I think my new improved no-neutral circuit will work with MINIR4M
01:54 Diagram of my new NO-NEUTRAL circuit with neutral-splitter and bypass module (take a screenshot)
02:38 Setup of the MINIR4M matter device with Google home is quite simple
03:47 Let's try to use it without a neutral connection behind the light switch
04:25 The difference between my old and new improved circuit
06:18 Wiring it up to a lighting circuit, using my modules
09:21 Different ways to connect the light switch to S1 and S2, with diagrams (S1 & Lin are linked together internally)
10:03 My circuit now works better with multiple LED light bulbs connected in parallel
11:11 The modules also work with different smart light switches and smart relays, like SwitchMan Smart Wall Switch-M5 & NSPanel and more!
12:58 In conclusion, it may also work with other brands as well, like some tuya devices, but not with everything!
Very nice video, I love your no neutral circuit, it looks good and seems to work well, as you are a very cleaver fellow how about designing a switch with dimmer circuit for LED bulbs? All the best Bob in the UK
I made myself your "no neutral circuit" with sonoff Minir4m, following your intructions on the vidéo and it works ! !
Thank you very much for sharing it here.
I'm so glad it worked for you 😉 👍. I'm continuously looking for ways to improve the circuit👍
@@MyProjectBoxChannel I tried to synchronize my Sonoff MINIR4M in Homekit and it worked.
But after several on/off trials, something flashed on my circuit, i think the fusible-resistor 4.7ohm 2Watt.
I did my tests without load (in fact, i put a female sector plug with nothing on it), do you think it could be the reason of my issue ?
@@ChristopheLABRUYERE Oh dear🤔 You should really have the load connected! It's hard to say what has failed without doing some testing. Did you build the new version of the circuit from the mini-R4M video? In that circuit, even if the fusible resistor is blown, then the circuit can still function, but with no smoothing capacitor working, the the LED bulb might flicker badly. You can also bridge out the fusible resistor( and see if the circuit works) Try doing some continuity testing with a multi meter, on the fusible resistor. Discharge resistor can be removed as it is optional anyway. Diodes can be tested with a multi meter. You can also just replace them. It's possible that some components were faulty/bad quality🤔. Is the capacitor rated at 400V or more?
I tested diodes, they were all ok.
I tested the fusible resistor and it was cut so I just replaced it and now the circuit works again (with a load this time 😅)
Thank you for your quick answer.
So happy to use this circuit.
@@ChristopheLABRUYERE this circuit is still in the prototype stages, so if your fusible resistor keeps blowing, you could experiment with different values. Maybe use two 10ohm in parallel 🤔. Or a higher wattage 4.7 ohm?
I've recently started looking into Smartifying my home and these videos on Sonoff have been very useful.
Very sad that Sonoff still haven't released a no-neutral version of the matter enabled mini R4 device, I'm torn on if I should go with the no-neutral zigbee version for now or get this one and do the bypass.
I know what you mean 😏. The bypass makes sense when using it with the more expensive sonoff switchman m5 and nspanel that don't have a NO-NEUTRAL option.
Hey man, i got a bit of advice for you if you want it.
If i read your patreon page correctly, it is setup to withdraw money every month, but the gap between this one and the one before it was something like 4 months. Im sure that will deter some people who would have supported you, as they "get nothing from the donation", so you should consider putting it in the mode where a donation is sent for every video produced, though a maximum of one donation per month.
I appreciate your video, happy tinkering :)
Thanks for the advice 😉👍. I'm a newbie to Patreon, And it clearly needs a lot of work to add value for my potential Patreons. Sometimes I wish I could just focus on making CZcams videos, and not have to worry about the admin side of things😩🤣. It can get a bit much for my severely dyslexic brain😜🤣.
I would love to receive the NO-NEUTRAL adaptor kit in Kenya. is it possible?
Would this newer beefed up version work with a much bigger load (say a 500W halogen lamp)?
I wouldn't recommend it. It might be ok , but the capacitor won't be very effective at reducing the ripple from the half-wave rectification. So you may lose some lamp brightness, and possibly have a very slight bit of flickering. The circuit really was designed for LED lamps as a load.
Superbh! ❤ What type of diode do you use? What is its reverse bias voltage? Can it withstand voltage spikes?
The diodes are all of the 10A10 type rated at 1000v and 10Amp. It's a bit overkill for LED lighting, but make for a tough/robust circuit.
@@MyProjectBoxChannel Awesome! 👏
Fantastic video.
I'm in the UK and have replicated your circuits and also have both a Sonoff R4 mini Extreme and a couple of Tuya based mini switches.
The issue that I have is my consumer unit has RCBOs and when connected this instantly trips the lighting circuit.
I suspect the RCBO is too sensitive to the effective short that this is creating.
Have you come across this?
No I have RCBOs aswell, and have not experienced any tripping. Have you tried to make a test mockup circuit on a plug socket? It's also useful to use my current limiting test circuit, so you don't damage any thing. It's not always possible to see if a diode is damaged. Check all polarities. Look at this video example. czcams.com/video/oBR5O391m_c/video.html
@@MyProjectBoxChannel after I posted I did read more replies so will definitely build the circuit again.
I'll report back with my findings.
Well, produced the circuit again but simply using wagos and it works a treat.
So you are absolutely right it does work with rcbo's 👍
Thanks for your videos!
@@optic1972 thanks for confirming that. I was starting to doubting myself for a minute.🤔🤨👍
First of all, thanks for the video. I started to make this circuit today and linked to my led light. Unfortunately it doesn't work for me. The Sonoff can be powered up but every time I turned it on my main switch tripped.
To debug I left only the bypass installed and it's still tripping. Should it work like a normal switch with only the bypass?
It sounds like you have One or more diodes the wrong way around. Replace your diodes, or test them. The diodes can look completely normal but still be faulty. In this video I use a old style incandescent light bulb, as safety current limiting, so you can safely test your circuit without damaging anything. czcams.com/video/oBR5O391m_c/video.html
At 12:55 time stamp😉
@@WiseSimpson you have to have both modules in circuit!! If you only connect the bypass, you will definitely have a short-circuit!! Because the diodes in the bypass are shorting out on every half cycle of the AC waveform!! In this circuit there is no room for errors, every component needs to be in the correct polarity and place , otherwise you will have a short-circuit and probably damage something. That's why my current limiting test circuit is a good idea trust me(from this video czcams.com/video/oBR5O391m_c/video.html )
Thanks for the reply. It’s definitely useful. I maybe try it another day
Thanks for the video, but why not just use Sonoff ZBMiniL2 which does not require the neutral wire?
Because it doesn't support matter (yet). The modules also gives you more freedom to use different smart switches without a neutral. Like NSpanel and NSpanelPro
So if I use an M5 switch and an mini R4 extreme, i don't have the matter one yet, do I still need to use the diodes and capacitor circuit?
If you don't have the neutral wire connection they require to operate, close to it, then Yes, my diodes and cap circuit will provide a "virtual-neutral" for them to work. Are you using the M5 and minir4 together on the same circuit, or in different places?
@@MyProjectBoxChannel I wanted to use for the same circuit. The switch has only the live, the light fixture has also the neutral. I will probably use the mini R4 and just replace the switches with regular but better looking ones. Will this be the right option?
Why did Sonoff make the Zigbee version non-neutral but the Matter version with a mandatory neutral? What were they thinking?
I think it's because zigbee devices have very low current consumption. So it's easier to make it work without a neutral. Remember you are "stealing" power from the light bulb, but trying to do it without turning it on. You are effectively getting the neutral return path through the light bulb.
@@MyProjectBoxChannel good point. Then Sonoff should have made a non-neutral Matter over Thread module instead of Wi-Fi.
@@fluxcapacitor mabe it will be possible with a firmware upgrade. I'm not sure if the hardware is capable of doing this 🤔. Maybe the Sonoff zigbee bridge will get a Matter-enabled firmware update?
@@MyProjectBoxChannel A possibility indeed, that in my opinion is fundamentally flaw as Matter allows us to finally get rid of all these proprietary hubs.
May I add another remark to fuel your first hypothesis above about the power levels flawing through these Wi-Fi circuits. Maybe the problem does not come from the Wi-Fi chip only, but the CPU and memory requirements too: We can recall that the Shelly 1L (alas now discontinued) and Shelly Dimmer 2 do not require a neutral wire. They can be flashed with HAA (Home Accessory Architect) which brings HomeKit to these Wi-Fi (yes, Wi-Fi!) modules, yet the LEDs didn't glow in the dark due to the leakage current. However, these two modules used an ESP8266 instead of an ESP32, which could account for the energy savings. ESP8266 are not powerful enough for Matter. Henceforth, many Shelly modules use a more powerful ESP32, meaning that they can now run Matter (e.g. flashing them with Tasmota) but they do not have the non-neutral feature anymore… Hence you may certainly be on the right track about this.
8:23
This won't be up to code even in the UK due to accessibility.
You can't turn off the light bulb fully to install/replace one in the future.
The lightbulb connector is live regardless of the switch orientation due to your circuit at the bulb side.
I don't think any home made circuit can meet code or electrical certification anyway. But it's worth mentioning that when the smart sonoff relay is off, with my circuit, the voltage at the light bulb socket is effectively at 0-Volt or at Neutral potential.(after the capacitor is discharged by its bleed resistor). I was always taught that a light switch, should ever be considered a safe means of isolation for maintenance. The circuit should always be isolated, on the circuit breaker, before working on it. If you look at "staircase switching" or 3-way switching, It's very difficult to know if the switch is in the ON or OFF position. Especially if the bulb failed while on. Lots of commercial smart lighting options, have the light fixture permanently powered!, and the light switch merely acts as a remote control for that light fixture/Smart bulb. Most no-neutral solutions, also have current permanently at the light bulb socket, like the sonoff s-mate. The concept of a physical switch cutting the power the the lamp socket is also not so clear cut anymore. It could be a triac or some other electronic switch, not actual switch contacts. The light switch can't be trusted for isolation, if it can be remotely controlled/overridden!
@MyProjectBoxChannel
The only thing that I can think of to solve your simple circuit is to add a small "killswitch" at the "light switch side" so your "bulb circuit" doesn't get connected to live at the "switch side".
There are so many flaws in this but I'll touch on this. When the "beefier" diodes fail due to overcurrent (lightning) or overload of your house total appliances, it will essentially render your trip breaker useless without you even knowing. Even if you put back the fuse to the original position, it will not pop at all due to the faulty diode.
Do not do this people.
@@jackipiegg you do have lamp socket bases, here in the UK, with built-in light switches, so that could be a option. A UK lighting circuit is normally on a 6Amp circuit breaker. 10AMPs on 230Vac! , that means the the diodes are good for over 2000w of LED lights!!!!! How do you overlaod a lighting circuit with more than 10Amps (my led bulbs draw 35Ma, thats 0.035A). Most LED light are not even 10w! I know on 110V systems the current is double, but overloading a lighting circuit over 10AMP is very difficult to do with LED lighting. Maybe in North American you may require a inline fuse, for the larger current circuit breakers. I have done some sort-circuit testing, with my bypass on 6AMP and 10AMP circuit breakers. The diodes have survived the fault current so far in my testing(they can handle over 200Amp for a brief instant). Obviously the house wiring has some impedance, so the fault current would be different for each situation.
@@MyProjectBoxChannel
Perhaps I said it wrongly. Lightning not lighting. A lightning strike could potentially overload the diodes.
@@jackipiegg yes lightning can definitely fry electronics 😉👍. I could also add a gas discharge arrestor, for lightning protection and other voltage surge. Maybe a metal oxide varistor MOV. But it's a rare occurrence, depending on where you live.
I want your bypass system for my NSPanel Pro and shelly 1 mini gen 3. When it will be available? 👌👍
I don't have any modules available at the moment 😢. When I get time I may make some more. It's not really economically viable for me. I make them all by hand and it takes up a lot of my time. I can't change much money for them.
I have not tested it with NSpanelPro yet, but I believe that it will work. Are you planning to bring the "neutral" back from a light, to power the NSpanelPro? But what will be controlling that light, if the NSpanelPro does not have a relay output?
@@MyProjectBoxChannel if i put NSPanel Pro on wall I will control the lights via Wi-Fi. Like I dont have neutral on Light Switchs I use the sonoff smate 2 and some Philips hue wireless modules too. And my wall boxes are small, almost cant fit a module inside 😅
This scheme turned out to be more difficult for me.
I hope everything will work according to the OLD scheme. Versions 1))
It has worked perfectly good for many people, so it should be just fine😉👍. You could try just moving the resistor if you prefer. You simply put it inline with the capacitor (Series with the positive) but that's up to you. I suggest you build everything up on a test circuit first (powered from a socket) just to verify its all working. Then do the final installation.
@@MyProjectBoxChannel Thanks for the advice ! Thanks for the quick feedback! I watch your video through a translator.
I am also writing to you through a translator)) I HOPE I WILL NOT MAKE ANY MISTAKES IN THE CHAIN😂
Does it work with 220v and up to 20w led bulp?
Yes I think it would work fine, especially with the bigger 10A10 Diodes. The capacitor value should be OK, but you can increase the value if you get some flickering. My circuits have all been tested on "220v-240v"👍. If you look at this older video, I have a safe testing procedure, so nothing gets destroyed, if you make a mistake. czcams.com/video/oBR5O391m_c/video.html
@@MyProjectBoxChannel thanks👍🏻. Would it work with corresponding switches - like one switch in each side of a hallway and the light in the middle of the ceiling? Thinks it runs like phase to switch one, - to switch two, - back to one - througt light bulp to - Zero… : or could be phase to light bulp to switch one, to switch 2, back to one - to Zero. This I have in one house.
@@larsw.larsen4173 I think you might be referring to 2-way or 3-way light switching 🤔. The problem is if its wired the European way. You will need to get to the first switch supply feed, and the last switch, switched line out going back up to the light bulb. These two ends need to somehow go to S1 and S2. That probably means pulling extra wires! In the UK it's wired differently, and you can just connect it at the first switch. czcams.com/video/7g0kjF7yobk/video.html
czcams.com/video/9hQFFsBkxaU/video.html
👍🏻 it’s in Denmark and Sweden. Denmark. 2 switches for one light bulp. Both switches kan operate lightbulp. Both on or og off gives light to lightbulp. One on one off gives no light. Phase is going to light bulp. 0 comes from the switch most far away. Right now I have both switches on = mini just works lige an Son-off RF switch. Seems like I needs to draw 3 new wires - 1 wire from 0 to Son-off mini. 2 wires phase from son-off mini S1 to switches and one back to son-off mini S2. This seems to need a lot of wiriring that I dont have space for. Do you think that the Son-off zigbee mini could solve this issue?
1. If I turn off the light using the wall switch, can I then turn it on using the mobile app?
2. If I turn off the light using the mobile app, can I then turn it on using the wall switch?
Yes and yes, that's the point of it😉👍
For all the diodes: 10A10 (or similar)
Fusible-Resistor: 4.7ohm 2Watt (4.7 to 10ohm should be ok)
Capacitor: 15uF 400V (10uF to 15uf and 400V to 450v should be OK)
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Hi, I think I am a little late, but are you still selling these? I don't have the ability to make this and would really appreciate if you could give me a way to buy both the modules. Thanks.
I will probably build some more of these modules as soon as I have some spare time. Keep a eye out in the description of this video, for links were to get them from. It's difficult to justify the work going into making them, for so little money.
@@MyProjectBoxChannelI completely understand and thank you for the effort you are putting in to help people like me that are not too comfortable with making diy circuits with mains. If you do think you will make some more could you let me know around when you will be selling them if possible. Thanks.
@@Gloggles no problem 😉👍
@@MyProjectBoxChannel I am considering making the circuit, would it be possible to give the links to the components you used, if not could you give more detail of the individual components as I am not too sure on which ones to buy, as there are many different types of for example 5 ohm fusible resistors. Thanks.
@@MyProjectBoxChannel Would this be possible? As I do not know which components to buy.
I'd love to purchase these, it's just what i need & the problem i ran into.
But i no longer see them available
I don't have much spare time to build them. Is also not worth all the time and effort for the very little money, I can charge for them😮💨😔😪. I have a older video, with a much simpler circuit, to make your self. czcams.com/video/oBR5O391m_c/video.html
remove "no-neutral" from the title, it's just click bait...
Would you prefer the title to be called, NO-NEUTRAL adaptor for mini-R4M?
I'm the only person that came up with a circuit solution, for not having a neutral behind your light switch, and still being able to use the mini-R4M with no neutral! Sonoff have not made a NO-NEUTRAL version that is matter compatible yet. So this solution can help many people. Lots of people have built my circuits and are happy with the result.