On Duggar Theology, Josh’s Arrest & Media Lies | Guests: Jinger Duggar Vuolo & Jeremy Vuolo | Ep 777
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- čas přidán 1. 06. 2024
- Today we’re joined again by Jinger Duggar Vuolo, author of "Becoming Free Indeed: My Story of Disentangling Faith from Fear," and Jeremy Vuolo to discuss their theology deep dive into Bill Gothard's teachings and how Jinger found herself in gospel truth. In her new book, Jinger shares her theological journey from following a fundamentalist leader to finding freedom in Christ. We discuss the immediate response to the book and some criticisms she has faced because of it. Jeremy shares how his upbringing shaped their theology after they met, and we talk about their study of the Duggars' traditional belief system and Jinger's realization that this theology was not entirely biblical. We also discuss Jinger's brother Josh, who is currently in prison, and how his actions, as well as the media portrayal of Christianity as a whole because of his actions, led Jinger and Jeremy to speak out for the true gospel. We also look at the lies spread about Jessa Duggar Seewald's miscarriage a few weeks ago, which many anti-Christian news sources claimed was an abortion. How do these lies affect Jinger, and how do Jinger and Jeremy cope with this media scrutiny?
#theology #religion #christianity
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Timecodes:
(00:00) Intro
(01:26) Interview begins / response to book
(05:38) Jeremy’s background & thoughts on TLC show
(09:12) Theological differences
(14:34) Bill Gothard’s teachings
(27:46) Marrying Jeremy and scrutiny
(30:07) Josh Duggar & real Christianity
(42:07) Jessa Duggar Seewald’s miscarriage & media lies
(45:40) Motherhood
(48:32) Reverting to old theology
(52:59) Advice for those confronting their theology
(58:27) Giveaway winners!
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Relevant Episodes:
Ep 745 | Life as a Duggar & Letting Go of Legalism | Guest: Jinger Duggar Vuolo apple.co/3zgYosB
Ep 176 | Jeremy Vuolo apple.co/3KbcxxM
Ep 762 | No, Jessa Duggar Seewald Did Not Have an Abortion apple.co/3njxa1X► Buy Allie's book, "You're Not Enough (& That's Okay): Escaping the Toxic Culture of Self-Love": alliebethstuckey.com/book
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On Duggar Theology, Josh’s Arrest & Media Lies | Guests: Jinger Duggar Vuolo & Jeremy Vuolo | Ep 777
This conversation has changed my understanding of my shattered family, due to gothardism. We raised our “small” family ( due to infertilty for 8 years, SIDS death of our only son, 3 miscarriages )of 4 girls. Gothardism teaches that these hardships were God’s judgement of my husband and I. We had to carry our shame each year to Knoxville conference as all eyes saw our small family with this judgement and shame. Our 4 girls were home educated in ATI, went to Indy for courses and now choose to abandon their walk with God. Now i see they reject gothard, not Christ because of the distorted view we had of a relationship with a living Lord Jesus! We walked in legalism, arrogant that other families didn’t “obey” the standards!!!
Now I will go to Him alone, tear out the gothardism lies and base ALL on the Word of God. I had asked forgiveness of my 4 girls for legalistic childhoods, but this is so much worse as I allowed the Bible to be 2nd to gothardism💔💔💔💔Pray that God will redeem my family, in spite of the shambles hubby and I created with “ outward obedience”. 😢🙏 Thank you Jeremy for your biblical insight.
I admire you and I know G-d loves you, as do your daughters. I hope you're able to find a church that speaks to your soul and move forward with your life in peace and faith❤
I'm a Jew and I really love what Jeremy has to say about true Christianity. I think his insights are really valuable and insightful.
This breaks my heart for you! You were sincere, but misguided by a false teacher. Keep praying Mama for those children of yours. God is sovereign inspite of our mistakes! Hugs to you from another Mom who couldn't have children. (but I have one adopted son who is now 31!)
Praying mama! ❤
😅😅
I’m sorry to hear about all the loss you’ve been through. And especially sad that people thought you caused that. Glad you got away from those teachings and seem to be doing so much better.
I don't go to Church, I wasn't raised with the word of the god, or anything like that. But I grew up watching 19 Kids and Counting. I am watching this after finishing Shiny Happy Faces, and hearing how Jermery speaks about the bible and his faith, you can see such a difference between him and Jim Bob. It's exactly what he said, IBLP doesn't teach the bible and faith in God, it is using that faith and the bible to accomplish whatever. It really good to see Jill and Jinger find themselves within their marriages and within their faith and break free from that life.
I love watching and hearing Jinger speak about what she has learned. I remember when she got married being concerned for her because I thought she was showing fear of Jeremy. One of the reasons for that was a podcast they were doing where he was mocking of her understanding of a verse in the Bible. I could see that she was really going through something and thought it was depression and fear of him. Now I see that she was unraveling Gothard's teachings and what she herself was beginning to see. She is so visibly confident and lighter and it's glorious to see. I can see the relaxation in her. She is Free Indeed! I'm glad I was wrong about Jeremy and happy he let her learn the truth through her own study.
You said exactly what I was thinking. Thank you for saying it so eloquently!
@@gramking3222 She spoke freely and in a relaxed manner displaying confidence as one who learned on their own what was true. There was nothing rote or mechanical in her speech as was apparent when she was in her father's house. Jeremy showed admiration of her and was silent most of the time, allowing her to tell her story.
@@gramking3222 I made the mistake of trying to listen to some of his sermons, I was appalled, she went from the fire into the frying pan I believe, I am a pretty conservative christian myself but he would scare me if my daughter brought him home, please listen for yourself, it's not just progressive christians complaining,
His sermons are biblical.
@@cathynuytten798 Same.
Wonderful program. I grew up in a very legalistic home as well. I attended a Bill Gothard Seminar as well in my youth. I thought that if i messed up, God would Zap me. I did not follow Christ out of love but out of fear. I learned too later on in life that rules don't save. Jesus does!! It is BY GRACE we are saved through faith, not of ourselves it is a gift of God lest anyone would boast. . I watched the Duggers for years it is so good to see how the Lord has worked in Jinger's life.
My young adults years were spent in an Arminian church, which was legalistic and caused me fear because they were always talking about don't go to far in sin, don't backslide you might lose your salvation.
😢
MOST churches have pastors USING the Bible instead of TEACHING the Bible. It’s HARD to find a Bible believing church.
This is spot on!
My pastor preaches the word verse by verse. Expository and let's the truth of God speak for itself. He only preaches and teaches what the Bible says.
And we must remember that the Bible calls us to change our ways and follow what it says. So that’s why people don’t want to teach the Bible because it requires change and people don’t want to change.
@Hannah its hard to figure out how to follow what it says. When Paul commanded the audience of his letter to do something, did that mean us, too, or just them? We certainly don't require women be silent in church (most churches at least). The Bible is so old and complex and hard to understand.
I'd recommend Real Life with Jack Hibbs, or John MacArthur.
So glad Jinger is telling the truth about the way she really grew up, but, more importantly, that she is speaking up about the power and freedom of a real relationship with Jesus Christ. So well spoken.
Great "aha" moment, "The deceiver is also deceived". It's so true, on so many levels.
“Christianity is a relationship with a living God, it’s not a set of rules you throw on, and then you’re perfect.” Wow! I see God’s anointing on you, Jeremy and Jinger, to truly share the gospel (good news) of freedom through Christ Jesus, our Savior. Being raised in a legalistic, works-based church myself, I truly can appreciate and understand the stark contrast of learning the magnificent truth of what Christ set us free from. We can never do it ourselves.
Jeremy…you’re a good listener when your wife speaks. 😊
@Jason Shoots women and men struggle with it , just keep at it , with that attitude it sounds like you will make a great spouse one day
Yes. He doesn’t make her look like a puppet.
God is really speaking to me through this video. I accidentally swiped to a specific part and I feel like God really wanted me to hear it. Wow, blown away.
Which god? Zeus? Baal? El?
She's so articulate about all of this. What a gift from God!
I agree with them about BG. But, her parents did do some good things as parents. Except for Josh, the kids seem like good people. Kinda like the Mormons- Raised to be good people but their theology is very wrong.
What a brainwashing from Jeremy. It's all this girl has known all her life. IBLP brainwashing from infancy. And brainwashing by Jeremy since she married him.
Absolutely articulate! She really knows precisely what she’s talking about & the exact steps that she’s taken to get to the REAL TRUTH of the LORD Jesus Christ. And Jeremy has shown that he really truly cares deeply for & about her by opening up her eyes gently & helping her gently to recognize the cult-like control of this Bill Gothard who’s gonna have blood on his hands if he himself doesn’t wake up & sincerely realize just how dangerous & damaging ‘his’ teachings are/ been to so many people. I’m really very interested in what these 2 are saying about their experiences. God bless you both Jinger & Jeremy Vuolo May He allow you to continue on with your message about Jesus Christ only as mankind’s Saviour. Bill Gothard WAKE UP!!!!! Repent of your sins as well & come to Jesus Christ yourself.
@@barbaradouglas2283
Religion. Wake up. It's ALL bullshit. This CAN'T be the first time you've heard of Bill Gothard. Jeremy's idol, John MacArthur is no different that Bill Gothard. Do some research on both of them. Poor Jinger.
❤❤❤❤
I grew up in ATI. I remember the Dugger family being paraded around at conferences as the model family, and this was before the TV show.
It's really sad that this cult is all about the outward appearance and not a heart change. I'm so blessed that I came to a TRUE understanding of the gospel on my own as an adult after getting away from this false teaching. Sadly, that was after my sinful, drunken, rebellious college years.
I was also raised in ATI from 1990-2001, my family stayed till 2010.
Like you, I left and turned my life against God and joined the Army because I wanted “out of the box”. After getting hurt in Iraq and almost losing my life, right then and there laying on litter waiting for a flight to Germany to receive surgery, I hit rock bottom and turned my life back to the Lord, but it was hard trying to figure out I believe. Thank you Lord for second chances. God is God!
I could not imagine being raised in this cult… just finished Shiny Happy People and my word… the spankings and the crap this man spewed among others was mind boggling. My husband said he reminded him of that evangelist Jim Baker.. spinning the Bible the way they wanted it to be spun. Sad. Gothard was probably a billionaire from all of this too… I’m so happy for you that you broke away!!!!
Shiny Happy People was put out by Amazon. Do you have no memory of having read the Proverb, "A false witness tells lies"? Getting your information from such a dishonest, God-hating, Satan-worshipping entertainment company is not wise.
Yeh but did the father touch theses girls also 😢
My 4 kids could have written the first part, but have yet to forgive us for their childhoods in ATI, and redeem the years the locusts have eaten 😢🙏
I e watched lots of Jingers recent interviews and so far this the best yet! She addressed so much and in such a graceful way!
Exactly! Totally agree
@@rainsofhealing I agree as well
I couldn’t agree more. She has really become such a strong, smart & just all around genuinely good person. I may not know her personally, but I am definitely proud of her. I know it isn’t easy growing up the way she did, and then stepping outside of those boundaries she had placed around her her whole life in order to carve out her own path for herself & her own family now is commendable.
She is an incredible speaker.. I could listen to she and Jeremy for hours and hours. I’m so proud of her.
I am glad she got away from the IBLP but she is a member of a Calvinist church which is a _real_ problem.
Loved hearing you three explain the error in Bill Gothards teaching and share your love for the Lord and His word. Again Jinger, while your family was mislead , the Lord used your family show to reach others. It was while watching the show that I started reading Gods word and was saved (7 years ago). Praise Him !
Praise God
If you believed everything you saw on their shows was the truth, you were deceived.
I married a man from this culture. I had no idea how rules, guilt, shame, facade and punishment are the basis of their experience of God. We talked alot about Christianity before marriage all the right things were said. After 14 years of frustration and chronic illness finally the truth is known, I have always been a dissapointment in most areas because I was all God thought he deserved for a spouse. Resentment our whole marriage all the while saying whatever a "godly" husband would say. And the confusion continues with I now have "biblical" grounds for divorce but since he wants to have the facade of changed heart, its me ruining his life and Ill always be his spouse in Gods eyes and he could only remarry me or I would have to die for him to be free to marry another. He is not opposed to the latter at all, but only for the inconvenience of some to care for what he believes are "his" gifts from God(our children) in the meantime while finding someone else.
This cult is a thief that is here to steal, kill and destroy.
I would so appreciate prayers for myself and children as we navigate separation.
I will keep you and your children in my prayers. You deserve peace.
I absolutely admire Jinger’s heart. Jinger and Jeremy are such an amazing example of how to speak Truth in love. They still respect and honor her parents but they clearly speak how what she was taught diverges from the Word. May God bless them and guide them as they continue to walk this difficult road!
I have tears in my eyes listening to this beautiful testimony of the grace of God. Praise Him for His faithfulness in bringing His people to truth and peace in Christ.
As a gay agnostic in my early 20's when the Duggar show was new, I do not think I was their target audience. But it made me feel grateful to have a family that let me be myself far more than those children were able to be themselves. I'm so glad some of them are finding their own path. I don't know if I'm the target audience for this podcast either but here I am lol.
It’s very clear to me that God ordained Jeremy and Jinger meeting up. It was God who led Mr Duggar to have Jeremy to watch 60+ hours of Gothard! God has set Jinger free and it’s beautiful to see! I watched the shows of the Duggars and I noticed the bondage they were in and they didn’t even know. God is so good! I hope other Duggars get set free too! Thanks for this video! God bless!❤️
I am so grateful that you had Jinger and Jeremy on the podcast. They have been through a lot but you can just tell how much they really truly love God and have a heart for Jesus, which is all anyone can ask for. ❤
I love the part when Jeremy said that when he saw Jingers’s reaction to the videos that he felt safe with her. I’m so glad God brought them together.
I’m wondering if any of her siblings have changed their thinking.
I know Jill at least did. She was one of the victims and it looks on instagram that she changed her fashion and sends her son(s) to public school.
I think so has joy anna
I sure hope the siblings are really thinking about this info for themselves & seriously considering that just maybe these 2 have found something much more worthwhile than Gothard could ever offer.
Her story reminds me so much of my life in seventh day Adventist church. I left a year ago because I became Christian. Since then I’ve been born again and I know I am saved and sealed by the Holy Spirit who is a guarantee of my salvation.
No more written rules, we are led by the Holy Spirit who changes me and guides me.
Former SDA here too! Praise God for His saving grace in our lives! 🙏
@@annettashannon8077 Amen!!! 🙏🏻 Isn’t it amazing how much of Jinger’s story reminds me of adventism, of how we judged other Christians for not keeping the sabbath, and how SDA’s totally ignore real studying of the Bible and just using one verse which fits their doctrine! There was just much I could relate to in this story! I’m pretty sure you felt the same. It’s always nice to meet other former Adventists 🥰
@@life.after.adventism You've hit the nail right on the head! I just reminded a friend of mine of how terrified we once were to even visit a "Sunday church". I'm so grateful for the truth of God's word, the help of the Holy Spirit, and for those who teach God's word and help us to understand it properly. Amen, sister Anne U. AMEN!
@@annettashannon8077 Oh yes, my mom is still shocked how I can go to a “Sunday church”! 🙈 Brainwashing is very deep in the SDA!
@@life.after.adventism My mom and bro are the same lol. I pray my family and yours will soon know and accept the true Gospel of Christ.🙏
This was so encouraging! As an ex-JW, abuse survivor I relate so much to Jinger. Blessed to hear this.
Same here I am an ex witness I see and hear a lot of similarities between these two Cults.
Congratulations.
So glad you chose The Word of God over mans ideas . Not that advice doesn't help , it's just that each of us need to walk in faith in God and His words
I was raised baptist and it's not the entire truth but it is the bible .
Go by the ten commandments and read revelations . Then life makes more sense and trusting God is the best way to go . I volunteer at a few different denominations because I don't know how to pick which or what I just enjoy helping others.
I am also an ex JH and I feel for her so much.
@@marwatson7408 really? could you please share how JW is kinda like this cult? I have family members that are part of it and they make it out to be so good.
I attended this seminar in California, in 1997, at the Long Beach stadium; I'm just now, after hearing the Duggar girls, realizing to what I was exposed! I was so intent on "being a good Christian", striving to keep these rules to become a "good Christian", became so overwhelming, that I had a nervous breakdown after the last week of the seminar. The nervous breakdown was bitter/sweet, as my mental state prevented me from embracing the books I purchased. God bless the Duggars to find freedom in Christ!
I am 54 years old, but as a preteen I began rebelling. My sweet mom took me to two Institute of Basic Youth Conflicts conferences. I remember Gothard always doing a beautiful painting at the end. My mom told me out of desperation hoping I would change my behavior. Fortunately, she didn't pursue Gothard for long. I see his teaching as legalistic. If we just rely on scripture, it breaks down our false beliefs and 'renews our minds'.
Oh my goodness, this is almost exactly my story. As a senior in high school I first attended the Institute in basic youth conflicts conference. I then also attended two more times. I just thank God that I did not pursue following Bill Gothard‘s principles any further. after hearing Allie‘s first interview with Jinger, I got my basic youth conflict binder out and threw it in the garbage!
What did it teach?
Urgent emergency Please join me in prayer for all those affected children families animals in Mississippi devastating tornadoes They Desperately need Your prayers please pray for them God bless you all
Absolutely LOVED this interview! We cannot be good enough, we MUST be born again! I laughed when he said he was Calvinist and everyone kinda flinched. I've just recently been awakened to reformed teaching and it has completely changed my life. What a wonderful peace in knowing He chose us and will complete the work He started. ❤ He gives us new hearts! He is so good!
Hubby embraced calvinism 15 years ago, but I can’t let go of our our gift of free will. maybe because my 4 kids, now backslidden, would be headed to hell ?
They all had conversions, baptisms but were raised in this gothard cult.
No one knows where life will take them. When Jim Bob and his wife decided to enter into a very public life, via reality tv, they probably had no idea how things would turn out for the future. No one has a crystal ball, especially parents. As a parent myself I totally understand why they made the decisions they made to raise their children in such a close-knit, strict home.
I did enjoy the show when it was on because I loved watching a huge family. But what I enjoy more is watching the kids grow and watching each of them develop into their own person. I do hope that all the siblings stay close and that they can come to terms with their upbringing while forgiving their parents.
My prayer also, for my family! Father, forgive me, for I sinned out of lack of knowledge of Your Word.😢🙏💔
God brought this video to me today. I know He did. I didnt think I would be able to relate to Jinger's message. I was wrong. I could feel God speaking to me thru Jinger, Jeremy, and Alli Beth. So thank you all for being a vessel for His love and guidance. May God bless you all!
Great Interview. I went to a Gothard Seminar in the early 80's. I was disturbed the husband made all the decision and the wife with under his umbrella. This did not make sense to me. Little did I know this was a cult and I am so glad we did not get entrapped in this cult. This was an awesome interview. Thanks to all of you. God Bless
I’m so happy Jinger is free! Loved this conversation, so encouraging for Christians!
I wouldn’t say she is “Free” due to her new church but I’d say she’s definitely more free than before and can speak for herself.
Her sisters/brothers look happier than her being "free"
Jinger isn't "Free." She's as much under Jeremy's thumb as she was under Jim Bob's. Only now she can have sex & dress better. Although I doubt sex with Jeremy is pleasurable. But then, what would she know? She's got nothing to compare it to. 😢
@@mariaarroyos2925key word > “look”
Praise the Lord for Jeremy and his willingness to study BG's material.
Ok, so why did her dad let her marry Jeremy? 🤔
Right on Jinger! From a 65 year old grandma who got indoctrinated through a seminar and found it to be not for me and against Gods Word! Praise God! You put into words what several of us feel!
Mad respect for them, gospel truth trumps all else, no matter what her family believes, hopefully she’s able to plant many seeds among them
"The fruit of conversion IS the solution to the human condition." Well said!
God is using Jinger's experience and pain to help so many others!!!!!
I so love these two. I’ve been disentangling right alongside Jinger and what a gift of grace it is to be free indeed. ❤
Agreed, spent the last year plus heavily disentangling, I grew up UPCI
Me too, after years in IBLP💔🙏
💜 I read Jinger’s book after her first appearance on this show, and I highly recommend! Such a powerful testimony!
Same!! The Hope We Hold is also very good.
Thanks, I’m really considering getting a copy myself.
This was such a good interview! As a family that homeschooled through high school, we were always big fans of the Duggars. We have been deeply saddened for the family regarding the heartbreaking & public issues. Thank you, Jinger & and Jeremy, for sharing. I know it will help point people to the real Jesus! God bless you 🙏🩷
I can relate so much! I came out of the International Churches of Christ! They are massively legalistic. Although not as rigid when it comes to dress for women, very legalistic on evangelism, baptism, one church (their church is the true church) missions, giving for missions, converting people! Also, I didn’t realize it at the time, but I see it now, just like her husband shared, they don’t teach the Bible they use the Bible! They pick topics, and then find a few verses to support their topic, the topic usually pertains to an agenda that the church has in mind for their interest. I am forever grateful to God for taking me out of a place that doesn’t understand or teach the true a gospel of God. I am now in a place that teaches the Bible verse by verse and it is such a blessing! Bless you all!
What has changed your mind about the importance of baptism? I attend a Church of Christ. Not an international one though, so there may be some differences in beliefs between the two churches.
I love your statement: "They don’t teach the Bible they use the Bible!" Yes!! they look for verses that will fit their preconceived notions. The Bible should be taught verse by verse always in context
@@carolinapatriot9651 Salvation is not based on baptism, but on the act of regeneration by God through his grace.
@@JustinHonaker what examples of salvation, after Jesus rose from the grave, do you have to support that idea?
@@carolinapatriot9651 Yes.
Eph 2:8-10 on salvation being by grace alone, not based on works.
Acts 10:44-48
Peter describes these as "hav[ing] received the Holy Spirit just as we have”, before being baptized.
Also, in Acts 16:31 Paul and Silas tell the Philippian jailer to “believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household," without mentioning baptism. If baptism was required to be saved, shouldn't it be clearly stated every time?
Looks like Jinger ended up in a really good place, rescued from an upbringing in bad theology and finding the true Gospel, "which is able to save [her] soul" (James 1:21). May God help more people just like her. 🙏
What a lovely couple!! Thank you, Allie, for having such Godly people on your program.
Jinger is prideful. She should only be so lucky as to have grown up in a modest household and had parents that prepared her to land her top-one-percent high value man. I could almost puke listening to her whine and complain about how bad she had it, there sitting in her multi million dollar LA mansion next to her gorgeous professional athlete husband.
💯 % AGREE! They’re really awesome! But I hear them actually giving God the credit for their happiness they’ve found.👍🙏
I can hardly text for the tears. Thank you for this … my family has been torn apart and some comes from things shared in this interview. I keep praying for my adult children, my prodigals and that they would find Jesus💛🙏
Hugs! Same here! 💔💔💔💔
Thank you, Allie, for being such a good interviewer. You ask good questions, then allow your subject to talk!
Amd thank you, Jinger, for being willing to put your story out in public. Our family were fans of the Duggars, but had no idea of the underlying teachings and the biblical errors involved.
I was a college student in the mid 70's. I KNEW from the get-go that Bill Gothard's teaching was bullcrap, but to most of my friends, my contempt for this man was evidence that I was a Carnal Christian and not right with the Lord. Now, after all these years, I feel vindicated!
Please keep telling your story, Jinger, and thank you Jeremy for being so supportive and being such a Godly leader for your family. This gives such clarity about who our Savior is. We serve such a good and loving GOD. I pray the Lord is with you in all you do. Thank you Allie, love your show!!!😊❤
I’m so incredibly grateful that Jeremy does love her and allow her to have her own feelings and thoughts and speak for herself.
That is a low bar.
It’s sad we have to be “grateful” when men “allow” their wives to have their own thoughts and feelings. Grateful that he “loves” her.
That should be the bare minimum requirement for any relationship (romantic or otherwise) between humans.
@@ginao6810you missed the whole point of this comment.
@@mimichism4812 If you’re willing to break down the point for me, I am willing to listen.
I am saying this without any snark. The tone of strangers is hard to gauge on the internet. I am genuinely interested in hearing what you have to say.
Allows?
This was very interesting. I attended Basic youth conflicts seminar in my town growing up, there are many good things in the seminar but mixed in with a lot of not so great ideas. As an adult I drifted away from Christianity and then as an adult discovered Orthodox Christianity which was an absolute revelation. Lord have mercy. ☦️🙏☦️
Laughing in irony because Gothard sounds like some of our famous progressive pastors right now! Plucking out a few verses and telling stories for 60 minutes.
Eisegeting is most common. Sadly.
@@bethloureiro2648 that’s for sure.
@@bethloureiro2648 Josh Buice at Pray’s Mill Baptist Church. He gets it. He is very solid. You can find that church here in CZcams.
I was thinking that too. Gothard sounds like an Andy Stanley!
I don't see it. But then again I'm not part of a specific religion. I think Gothard is an incredibly evil man who believes women are second class citizens and should be controlled.
I love how she puts ZERO BLAME on her parents and ALL THE BLAME on that Bill Gothard guy. Her parents MADE THE CHOICE to follow, believe & IMPLEMENT those stupidities.
This is why I did not buy her book! Her parents ARE the number one reason why they grew up the way they did. Both mommy and daddy are the sicko’s, not just that looney Gothard. So in the end, you learn nothing from her book, except praising her parents and blaming others. I’m glad she has a great husband and beautiful children, but she needs to STILL see what her parents did to them for LIFE.
@@linedancer09 💯
@@linedancer09 manipulation can run deep .. maybe she isn’t ready to see that her parents have caused her pain
@@Kwildcat13
I doubt she will ever blame them. Her parents will always have a hold on all their kids. It really was mental abuse in that home. And who knows what else went in. Look how Josh turned out.
I think there are legalities involved at this point so she is watching how she speaks on the matter. Jim Bob is not a good or godly person and will go after members of the family that turn against the family. Also she maybe isn’t quite there yet with coming to terms with what happened with her parents. It’s so complicated.
I went to Bill Gothard's Institute in Basic Youth Conflicts, I think in the 60's and I bought it hook line and sinker. Some things were good but some things were bondage. I talked to a relative that said they went to it and they felt an evil presence in there, I think that's what they said. I know it was something not good. Another relative at the time did not like what was taught. This was so good. Jinger you and Jeremy's heart seems so sweet and you said so many times going by the Word of God. Which after 56 years as a Christian I am just now really learning because I've made so many decisions on my feelings which and what other people said has not been good. Thank you so much Jinger and Jeremy. Which Jinger I know I used to watch the Duggars on TV.
I'm a year out hearing this. But wow so impressive how Jeremy didn't talk over her and how he genuinely comforted her when she got upset!
My husband and I fell into a movement by a man who attended moody Bible institute with Gothard. They butted heads in school because both men wanted to be leaders. This man led a singles only ministry and when my husband and I expressed a desire to be married and serve the Lord together, we were told we were in sin and ultimately got kicked out. The parallels between both men are wild and I’m so glad we broke free. I hope God continues to use Jingers story to help others escape. It is dangerous to be amongst men like them.
About 1/2 way through, but so appreciate hearing this truth spoken. In the early years of our marriage we followed this also, but ended about throwing away all those books. Thank you for speaking truth. I also am just searching scriptures and seeking what Jesus says, rather than man. Look forward to reading your book, Jinger.
Exactly, I have known I was deceived in gothatdism for years, but was overwhelmed with guilt at raising my kids in this cult!! I have apologized but this conversation shows my next step. I will rebuild my faith according to the Word of God, pray for my children to forgive us and find Jesus! They have memorized chapters of scripture that God can redeem, but need relationships with their Loving Lord. 🙏🙏❤️
Great interview. Jinger expresses herself so eloquent and their relationship clearly brings out the best in each other
gosh i am so grateful jinger came forward with her story. i just came out of something similar a year or so ago & had so many of the same experiences. one thing that my "teacher" would say in regard to studying because of fear was "if you're in fear.. well, perfect love casts out fear. if you're feeling fear, it means you don't have God." as well as the fear of being reincarnated to a harder life because we didn't prove our love enough in this life (of course with scripture being used to back her claims..) - & just like you said, it kept us coming back to her teachings out of fear & needing more "knowledge & wisdom". i imagine jinger probably heard similar fear jargon. it's such a disheartening place to be. thank you so much for this episode!! 🙌🏼🖤🥲
I’ve lived in Utah my entire life (58 yrs). Utah is where the Mormon church is headquartered. I’m a non-Mormon who recently started watching “Mormon Stories Podcast” on CZcams. The host interviews people who left the Mormon church. It caught my interest, so I thought what the heck. After watching quite a few episodes now, I’m blown away at how members from that organization describe dang near what Jinger describes. I always knew there were strict rules most members of the church abided too, but I never understood what most of them have felt inside, some for many years, which is fear. 😔 My heart is so proud of Jinger for following her own spiritual journey. She is a beacon of light for others, and I pray that others find their strength and do the same. I pray that others will be willing to take a good look at who they’re really following, because it matters. 🙏😌💛
Looking to Mormon Stories to understand the members of the Church of Jesus Christ is similar to asking an atheist who is antagonistic toward Christians to describe what Christianity is. Mormon Stories is a biased and unfair attack on people who believe deeply in Christ.
Thank you for speaking out. The Christian life is about a relationship with the Lord and NOT about rules. I feel sorry for the children who grew up under Gother teaching.
I’ve had two D+Cs post miscarriage just like Jessa. It’s listed as an abortion on the medical paperwork. The concern is that lawmakers wouldn’t know the difference between miscarriage care and an elective abortion. If a lawmaker in Ohio can ask if an ectopic pregnancy can be re-implanted we have to consider that lawmakers Don’t do their homework
Yep! Thank you.
I had to have a D+C a week after giving birth to my daughter because a piece of placenta tissue was left behind and it became infected.
I would say that while they both may be medically labeled as an abortion, medically necessary and deliberate abortions are vastly different and easy to distinguish between.
I also had an emergency D and C. I could have died if I did not have it. The law makers understand but maybe don’t care so many women will be made to choose between breaking the law and saving their life.
@Kayla Fogarty not really, depending on the EHR, some digging by the medical staff may have to be done. While inputting spontaneous abortions, aka miscarriages, the final charted product appeared as "abortion". To determine if the "abortion" was spontaneous, chemical, surgical or MVA of spontaneously aborted tissue, I had to look a lot further into the pts EHR.
Thank you God for bringing Jinger to the real you Lord. You are an awesome God and worthy of all of our praise 🙏
So glad you did not leave your faith Jinger. I know what you are doing, lifting up Jesus and His truth, will help so many. Thank you!
Jeremy needs to write a book. He understands on deep levels and is a good teacher. I’ve listened to him teaching but would love a study guide or biography of sorts from him. They make a great spiritual couple; a great example of what He is and is not.
I was happy for Jinger when she broke away from the bondage she was under and was free from that!!!!😊
This really touched me. There is such a fine line between legalism and true gospel teaching and God's Word is the answer. Jinger found that, and partly thanks to Jeremy, but also because her heart is just so pure. You both are so articulate and this conversation will continue to be such a great discussion to help others understand the difference. Thank you!
That is absolutely disgusting what the media said about Jessa! I hadn't heard that until right now! 😡😡😡
Man towards the end when Jinger starts getting teary...it was connected to those comments about losing community. That is the hardest part for sure and where a ton of the hurt in these situations come from. Our family has a very similar story and that is definitely where the hurt comes through in our story as well. Thank you so much for being vulnerable and sharing who Christ really is for all to hear and allowing your story to give Him glory. Praying for the healing in your hearts as the hurt comes and goes over the years.
Ginger has such a well-rounded understanding of the Christian faith.
Such a beautiful godly couple this brings tears to my eyes
Reminds me so much of growing up Mormon. Thank God He showed us the Truth.
Yes! Me too!
Jinger is such a very well amazing speaker. Her first book had me in tears,and just how much those kids missed out of. I was so happy that Jinger got her a real man and she is such a beautiful person inside and out ❤❤
This interview with Jinger And Jeremy was so interesting. For many years I have been involved in helping people out of Biblical based cult groups. Of course they are not really Biblically based given the fact they twist Scripture and use them to fit their preconceived beliefs. Bill Gothard fits this profile completely. In the late 70s in a church I attended many people were involved. One couple gave me the workbooks for the Basic Life Principles. They told me not to tell anyone I had the books because no one outside were suppose to read them.
In this interview when talking about her brother Josh discussing how he could do the things he did having been brought up with strict teaching against sexual sins. I agree totally in how Jinger and Jeremy explained it. Almost every cult leader I have studied were and are involved with sexual perversion of some type. Jinger and Jeremy pointed out that we cannot overcome our sins by trying to fight them in the flesh, will we lose. What happens in the attempt to fight your temptations head on you are actually given them to much attention. This often results in falling into the the very sin one is trying to overcome. One of my Favorite verses:
Hebrews 12:1-3 ESV
"Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God. Consider him who endured from sinners such hostility against himself, so that you may not grow weary or fainthearted."
This is where our victory is in His Word keeping our eyes on Jesus. This I believe is how we will overcome the sins that entangle us looking at Jesus and studying His Word.
I'm only 24 minutes in and I am so glad I watched this episode. Wow! How encouraging and edifying. God is so good!
Well if god is so good, all powerful and omnipotent why does he let well meaning people languish in toxic harmful religious cults like the IBLP? Why does he allow people like Gothard peddle his nonsense which ultimately leads to harmful and evil patterns of behaviour? What’s good about that?! Blind faith really does have the power to make people believe literally anything.
Love it, Christ changes us from the "inside" out!
Yes, Jinger, we all need to speak the truth of the gospel. That is the only hope in a lost and dying world. Keep on keeping on.
Not a Christian and never watched the Duggar show, but ofc am aware of them in the tabloids. This was quite interesting, thank you.
Excellent in upholding the gospel of JESUS and giving legalism a black eye. Great interview.
Excellent podcast, Allie. I am so proud of Jinger and how far she has come in her journey. I hope this resonates with at least some of her siblings who still seem to be caught up in the IBLP. I always hope this would really help Jana become who she wants to be without fear of stepping out from under her father’s umbrella of authority.
I feel for Jana as well. She is a lovely and talented woman!
I think we need to not assume things about people. Jana clearly has a mind of her own as evidenced by pictures of her in pants (not that there is anything inherently wrong with skirts). I personally think it’s wrong to say someone must think this or that simply because their life is different than the norm. We don’t know if fear has anything to do with her choosing to continue to live near her parents or not. Plenty of non IBLP people live with or near their parents, especially if single. She no longer lives in their home but in her own home she helped build on their land. I applaud Jinger for coming out of her wrong and fearful thinking about God, but I don’t think we should automatically assign those same feelings to her adult siblings without actually knowing if that’s what they think. My sister and I are very close, love the Lord and even go to the same church but the way we do things or even interpret or apply things may be very different at times.
@@rainsofhealing when Jinger mentioned Gothard asking that the women wait 5 or 10 years before courting all I could think about was what if Jana was one of them😢😢. The IBLP sounds like a terrible cult
@@susanmoran692 I hasn’t thought of that but it’s a possibility I guess for anyone that’s in the group. It’s a little bit confusing to me in a way because from what I’ve heard they want them to marry (preferably younger) and have a good sized family. BUT they also make young women of childbearing age take 5-10 year VOWS to stay single for God? Hmm... how does this all work I wonder. Imagine meeting your soulmate during this time. How WRETCHED! Then be kept apart for however many years because of some vow you were pushed into while not knowing full ramifications. Also what the Bible says about vows, I guess people weren’t encouraged to read that part for themselves. Just awful! I feel for ANYONE in a cult especially as a kid born into it with no choice!
Thank you so much for these in-sights. I was always scared of doing the wrong things in life, and afraid of upsetting the Lord. Never being GOOD enough. Thank you for your thought s & teachings.
I used to go to the same church as Jeremy in Oneonta. I wasn’t friends with him, but I remember our Campus ambassador minister had good things to say about him. I never watched the show but thought it was a good thing when I heard they were dating/courting.
This was a wonderful interview! What a testimony from this lovely couple. I have never watched the TLC show from Jinger’s childhood, but of course knew a bit about them. I grew up in a similar conservative household and church, though not nearly as extreme. I’m so proud of Jinger for relying on the truth of God’s Word instead of man’s list of Christian do’s and don’ts. There is such freedom in Christ! Although I’m not Calvinist, I have huge respect for reformed preachers and verse by verse teaching. May God continue to bless this wonderful family. Such an inspiration and encouragement!
Loved this interview. Thank you, Jinger, for writing this book. You are helping so many “jaded” believers to understand that legalism is not the gospel. ❤
Their testimony is so beautiful.
Freedom and peace. Because of Christ.❤
I've seen something of the distortion--the weight of performance -based "righteousness," the vow-making... I pray that God will use Jinger's story to help many others discern and disentangle truth from the legalistic counterfeit.
Jeremy is so patient with her, he understands how damaging the cult she grew up in was but is being respectful of her awareness and growth.
I lived under this kind of thinking as a young woman and believed that a true Christian doesn’t even feel tempted I didn’t realize until a crisis of faith that temptation is NOT sin. That legalism is not just bad, it is pure evil. When I realized that legalism itself is a catalyst to sin. That only realizing that it is Christ living out through me is there true hope of overcoming temptation. That my salvation comes as a result of His Sinless Life, His overcoming Temptation and dying as THE Final Spotless Lamb, that paid for my sin past present future and it is within the knowledge of what Titus 3:5 makes so clear. It is all In Jesus who is able. Praise Him whose name was raised above all Names. So much freedom when one begins to understand the depths of His Grace. He changes our want to’s. Phil. 2:8,9
James teaches that "God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone. Buy each one is tempted when he is dragged away by his sinful desires and enticed."
Christ was TESTED not TEMPTED in the desert. Be CAREFUL how you use the word "tempted"!
Very encouraging to hear Jinger and Jeremy. I love seeing how God works in people's lives when they have truly been regenerated!
I ordered her book as I was watching this. I see so much of what she is talking about in my childhood and things I have to overcome also. It’s hard for me to view Jesus and God as a loving God I see Him as this being that will send me to Hell if I have sin I have never prayed for forgiveness a God to be scared of not the proper fear of the Lord. I can’t wait to read jingers book
I really enjoyed this episode. Thank you. My wife came from a legalistic background, and we had a hard time finding unity in beliefs and practices in our early years. We are now on the same page after many years. She was fearful.
I loved this interview so much!! Thank you Ginger and Jeremy for being bold and sharing! I can relate to Ginger’s experience and finally being free by the grace of God!
That was absolutely beautiful! God bless Jinger and Jeremy. Truly beautiful people and a great message. Thank you Allie for having them on!
Even though we dont get there along the same path, we end up at the same destination. I always knew Jinger would be one of the ones to speak more openly once she inevitably realized what was going on.
Jesus Christ died for our Sins According to the scriptures and that he was Buried and that he rose again the third day praying for everyone everyday God Bless You All
LOOOVE Jinger!! Strong head in her shoulders and unwavering faith 🙌🏽❤️
I really resonate with what she said about her initial impression of her husband. My husband and I met and I felt instantly that I could trust him with my heart and hand. He was the first man I ever fully trusted. Growing up in ATI, I was taught to NEVER trust men because all they wanted was sex. I was an object for them to lust after. Ironically, my "umbrella of protection", my father, was the one who kept pushing this point home and I trusted him less than any other man I met.
Beautiful! Thank you Jinger.
What a beautiful story of redemption ❤ Ginger thank you for being so vulnerable and raw because it touched my heart and I know it did many others! God bless! Grace and Peace to you and your families ❤
I forgot to ask in my earlier comment… Allie,
Have you ever spoke to any of the Bates children? I see alot of
Them have their own CZcams channels and I was curious if any of them broke away from Gothards Garbage?
You are a wonderful interviewer… thank you Allie! This was incredible 💜🇨🇦💁🏼♀️
I always enjoy watching Jinger and Jeremy and their perspective and their Truth. They are both so honest and soft spoken in their beliefs.
Question on Patrean Mobile: so it doesn’t support politicians like Trump or Desantis?
I grew up in an Independent Baptist culture that never endorsed or even mentioned Bill Gothard, but endorsed much, much, MUCH of the kind of legalism that he taught. I grew up under one pastor in particular who really abused his authority and [mis]used the Bible to justify his abuse.
I have had a journey somewhat similar to Jinger's. I left the independent Baptist movement, never to return. But I have not left Jesus behind, because even back then I had enough spiritual wits about me to know that the Jesus of the Bible was NOT the Jesus portrayed by much of the Independent Baptist culture I grew up in.
I read her book and learned so much! I highly recommend it. They are such a precious Christian couple. I would love to meet them.