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The History of Lemon Plecos, L144 & How They Were Created! AKA: Ancistrus Cirrhosis. Care & Breeding
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- čas přidán 8. 07. 2020
- The History of L144: Lemon Plecos & How They Were Created! AKA: Ancistrus Cirrhosis Var. a2 + Care and breeding albino, leucistic lemon plecos, long fin plecos and blue eye lemon plecos, super red plecos, green dragon and snow white plecos.
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Very nice planted tank. I like the different textures and of course the different colors. 👍🏼
Thank you kindly. I appreciate that
Awesome history lesson as always
Glad you enjoyed it
What this video really showed was, I got a breeding male and female L144a as sub adults that will be arriving tomorrow from different lines. I have an SAE and was wondering how it would do during the male egg watching. This has shown me that even though they can annoy the male pleco it isn't overly aggressive back and is moreso defensive.
Yeah it shouldn't be too bad. Usually the pleco can slam the SAE with a tail whip and scare it off. They're really strong even as a small fish
Enjoyed the video
That was an interesting watch!
Glad to hear it! No one watches this video anymore haha I'm glad you enjoyed it
Always happy to learn about the origin of animals and plants!
Nice
I bred a couple of super reds and the babies came out similar but when I crossed one of the spawn back with the mother they came out with a lot of black marks similar to calico. I guess that particular gen 2 I chose had some of the undesirable traits that came back out. Back to the drawing board I suppose.
Gotta figure it all out somehow hehe. I wish there was an app or website where people could simply log their results as far as dominance and cross strain spawning goes
@@Fishtory that's a great idea!
Short and sweet..., 23 and a half minutes later..., ha..., still good vid.
Lol ... so short, so sweet. Not a single target or wasted word... classic me.
Very educational. Thank you. Mine's mucistic (spelled wrong) with blue eyes. He's a little baby now, about an inch and a half long. SOOOO CUTE
Awwww cute. Yeah awesome. They're a great fish
Ancestor from Lemon were not imported to USA but to Europe, that Lemon line we all know was made in Czech Republic 😉
Thank you! Which species was it a mix of , again?
I love your videos and always amazed by the comprehensive info! I got 2 lemon blue eyes today- thinking of breeding them with a regular black male bristlenose.
Really helped me out this one cheers pal 👍
Glad to hear jt
Been waiting on a video about this for a while 🙌👍
Tada! ... so what was next on the ole wait list?
No idea lol. Might have been the only thing on the list...so far.. Really enjoyed it 😁
Super duper video! I was recently given about 30 mixed plecos, from 3/4" to 3ish inches. I see I have at least 1 green dragon and several albino. There are a couple I have not ID'd though.
Whoa! Very cool haul. Score! Are they all bristlenose? Or other species as well?
@@Fishtory All bristlenose (I think) I'm not a pleco person, well I actually am now. Can I send you pics to help ID them.
Thanks so much.
Gladly! Thanks for tuning in
He looks so cute especially his eyes looks like a fake plastic doll😂😂
I like my lil guy hehe
Really cool video!
Thanks for the visit 😀
After one week of research about plecos, finally I found this. I'm thinking about getting some L144 for my first tank. Very detailed information, thank you!
Do you think L471 Mini Snowball Plecos would go along well in the same tank with the 144s as long as enough space and hideouts are present?
Yes theyll be fine as long as there are enough caves/hides ...about 2 for each fish, just in case. But ive kept that combo in several tanks...lovely
The green dragon is a hybrid of 3 Ancistrus and not line breed like most people believe. First the L338 and L156 where breed together that started the short fin greens and some come out a spotted and yellow ish in colour these come from the L156 side of the line and they got named lemon drops. It was also quite common that they would throughout albinos along the way. (I believe this is way you see some albinos that are quite spotted and others that are not because they were originally created from different ancistrus lines.) It has taken some time to breed the green dragons with out the spots coming throw them so strongly. Then the ancistrus cf. cirrhosus long fin was breed in to get the long fin green. It has been said that there was a green dragon line back in the 70’s in Germany that has now died out but there’s no Real evidence of their existence just story’s! The greens we see in the hobby today have been perfected by Greg Sage in the US with the original L338 and L156 cross breed hybrids coming from a friend of his who didn’t want to work with them.
Totally! Thank you. Greg is where I bought mine/ whom I spoke with about his work over the 90s.
All the "dragons" are ancistrus cirrhosis on paper, but as you said- the work of Greg Sage specifically brought them into their current long fin form.
Also they weren't true albino but rather, leucistic as many have the blue eyes... which is the lemon and orange colors... reds are a refinement of the calico and albino variants I think too.
I plan on trying to get longfin green dragons so this is helpful to me
Select Aquatics in Denver has the very best
@@Fishtory I know but have not seen any for sale he is doing some line work and I suspect the human malware is also causing some issues.
Yeah every 6 months he sells another 250 pr 500 though. So keep your eyes peeled
@@Fishtory I have been watching for about 6 MTS now at least once a week I check.
I've got the long fin albino variety.
They're beautiful when swimming! (Do yours actually have the pink/reddish eyes?)
I have supered hes soooo CUTE
Any ideas why my lighter coloured BN plecos(albino and lemons)are more active during the day than calicos?
My calicos are always hiding,and bolt the moment I come near the tank.
The lighter ones don’t seem phased at all,and move around actively with no fear.
You know, I don't know why either...but have also noticed it! I wondered if it was because the others hide and blend in, under shadows, but bright ones would hide better in sand or blonde wood... so maybe thats part of it?
I just ordered 2 Golden blue eye long fin bushy nose Plecos. Are those what you are talking about ?
Similar... they look nearly identical. But the lemons have a different background genetically ...supposedly a wild morph from the 70s, but others claim that line was lost and it's a group from the 90s of luecistic bristlnose ancistrus... so short answer, yes...technical answer: no...maybe lol
Those green dragons are a mix of three species of ancistrus. Greg Sage talks about how they were developed.
Yeah! The lemons are unknown origin as he told me a few years ago though. I should do one on green dragons also... they still to by ancistrus Cirrhosis oddly
Lol that’s weird. It’s probably more like “Ancistrus cf. Cirrhosus” which is not actually meaning that we know for sure.
I just recently bought an l144 male and it bred with my albino female. What type of fry do you think I might get?
So what did you get?!
Please respond!!
For the algorithm!
Could I buy a purple eye green dragon please
I wish. They had a few babies (5 or 6 years ago) and then it never passed on predicably
I need a pleco for a tank that has a convict cichlid in it. Would this guy be able to fend off the convict?
I think @2:34 you mean melanin not melatonin
YES! HAHA long day... i do not need any Melatonin haha... sleep would be instant
lol I was hoping someone else heard that.
its possible to keep muliple plecos in a tank you just need multiple caves
100%
We had longfin L144 plecs breeding, and every so often, true albinos (red eyed) would show up. How common is that?
I'm not sure.. ive spawned over 500 now from this pair, and another 2k from their offspring..and never seen it. However we may have different lines, and one albino red eye grandpa can toss a wrench in things I suppose. Sorry I can't be of more help
Great video bro. I was trying to breed my l144s but removed the mail after awhile because the male was chasing the female around the tank. I worried she was stresses. Is that normal?
It is...but it can definitely stress her out too much also. So not a bad idea for a while
@@Fishtory Appreciate it.
I Can't believe they've still got some of their egg attached to them still, I thought you were yolking.
I ancist-rus, that it's true though!
@@Fishtory dad level puns those bad boys
Just got one of these guys today heard they are as hardy as a common plexo
Pretty much. They can handle less nitrates by maybe 20%? And they like it 72-84 degrees rather than 60-80 like commons
@@Fishtory welp my tank currently is in that 60-80 range but that’s cause my heater broke and I won’t have one for a couple of days. Thankfully room temp isn’t that bad
i have 500 or more of these.
Nice!
I have a baby Oscar that I brought as a albino tiger Oscar it was only about 1 1/4 inches and pure white with orange eyes at the time but as it is growing it is developing a lot of black over white in what would be black pants and white where it's bars and orange part would be other than eye spot that is is developing bright orange like a normal tiger Oscar is about 3 2/3 inches now and looks unique and awsome do you have any idea what the mutations causes this colour patterning? I also have a blue eyed albino colour body with red fin tinfoil barb as well as a normal albino one
Yes that's likey called co-dominant leucistic or co dominant amelanism. Some species...like kribs ( Also a cichlid) can Express normal black patterning but be missing yellow, or red... and maybe you get orange...the eyes are the main "tell" they'd be pink or clear if true albino genes.... the other possibility is that its simply a normal color mutation that's been selectively bred.... someone saw orange and crossed the most orange ones they had until your phenotype
That’s a lemon Oscar!
Some are almost all yellow and others are cream/yellow with orangish/yellow tiger markings and a bit of black on the fins. Some have the black, others don’t. Has orange eye reflection in light!
Did he really call it melatonin!!?! hahahaha!!!!!
Yup haha easy slip up
can they breed with the darker plecos?
Yes any ancistrus /bristlenose species basically
Is the green dragon pleco from selective breeding too? and is it possible to attain from common bristlenose selective breeding in the home aquaria?
Yep! Over time both long fin, calico, albino, black, mocha, chocolate, super red, yellow and green are all based on ancistrus cirrhosis
@@Fishtory thanks for your reply, appreciate it
@@sinisa2365 no problem. Thanks for checking out the channel.
I wish someone would work on breeding a smaller bristlenose pleco that is about 1/2 the size. If we can breed poodles from wolves, it should be possible.
There's mini snowballs.... 2 or 2.5 inches max!
@@Fishtory but they're not cleaner fish 🤷♂
L144a is the Longfin version of Lemon blue eyes
I have L144 shortfins and L144a Longfins breeding
Oh thanks for the correction then
Is lemon the same as albino? Or is there a difference?
One is albinistic and one is leucistic (lacks all dark colors, but still has some yellows, reds and orange usually ) i have an episode on the difference and specifically with plecos and kribs
What's the blue fish at 19:16? Looks interesting...
Powder blue male dwarf gourami
@@Fishtory Wow that's a mouthful.
How do I aquire your pink ram snails? Do you sell them ?
I do
@@Fishtory where do I go to purchase some? Love the vids btw. Just found you last week
@@ThePaul555 where do you live? (Are you in the USA? ) EMAIL me at alexanderjwilliamson@gmail.com with how many you'd ideally like, and then where you are located and I can hopefully let you know the shipping price. The snails are usually about 4 dollars each for adults and I toss in a few babies as well.
@@Fishtory i emailed you
Are u selling ur LF blue eyes whiter looking L144s?
Locally in Seattle, only
@@Fishtory Ahh gotcha np =)
Why do I find eggs outside of their hides? I have heard the males will shove out the bad eggs but I have found them behind the hides as if they were laid there.
Sometimes, the males are clumsy and knock out their clutches when they leave the cave to eat.
I've even seen males knock out only a portion of their eggs but raise the remaining eggs without any problems.
The better dads will forego eating and not risk kicking out their eggs.
I have rescued MANY of such clutches and raised them quite successfully, so I don't believe the males "rejected" them because of their quality.
I do think a rival male can eject a clutch, but I haven't witnessed it personally. It just makes sense they might do it because of environmental pressure.
Ejected clutches are easily raised outside of the cave if you know what to do.
Contrary to all the CZcams videos saying you need specific fry hatching gadgets to raise the clutch, you don't.
All you need is an appropriate sized vase, a SMALL heater, and an airstone, or 2. I prefer raising them away from the aquarium because they stay cleaner that way.
Add the dechlorinated, warm water to the vase, put in the clutch, the SMALL heater, and the airstone. Be sure the airstone is blowing just enough to BARELY agitate the eggs. A thermometer is a good idea, too.
Change the water at least once per day (I change it 2x/24 hrs).
Then watch and wait a few days. It's a blast to see them hatch.
Once their egg sacs are gone, you can feed spirulina powder, or Repashy, or even canned green beans. Spirulina seems to work best, but it does make a mess in the vase. I use a soft paint brush to clean the walls when I do water changes to manage the mess.
The fry can go back into the tank to grow out in about a week if there are no predators to eat them.
@Kellycasper Hanson Thank you for the info. It seems I have several clumsy males...lol. I have 2 egg tumblers going now. The first batch is just about through the eggs sacks and will be going into a nursery on the side of the tank they are going into with a chunk of zucchini in a couples hours when I get to them. The second batch in tumbler 2 has just started hatching and will likely remain in the main tank. Now I have to find some interested buyers before I have 400 plecos in tanks everywhere...lol. Thankfully I have a couple tanks I can go to until they are old enough to find new homes.
@David Willard Jr
Congratulations on your success 😅! It's a hazard in pleco breeding! I've had times when I was way too successful. I've been supplying calico/super red BNPs to most all of the fish stores on my side of town, and they can only take just so many!
Something I've discovered when I have to raise up the clutches myself is that at times, the eggs don't hatch effectively without extra water pressure from the dad's continual fanning.
I simulate that by using a turkey baster and squirting water across the clutches. I only do it when some eggs have hatched and the others aren't doing anything. It's amazing to see the fry POP out of their egg sac just from the extra water stimulation.
I'm now waiting for my longfin super red and longfin blue-eyed lemon BNPs to get old enough to breed. I'm done with short fin chocolates, albinos and calicos. There's just not much money in it in my area.
I hope you make much more money from your babies!!!
@David Willard Jr
When your fry have just hatched, spirulina powder is an excellent first food. I hatch mine in a separate container so the spirulina powder doesn't cloud the aquarium water. I move them at about 7 days old.
I didn't have good results with the zucchini on new fry. Green beans work okay, but I SWEAR, they GOBBLE up the spirulina like crazy. You can see the green in their full bellies!!!
Do whatever works for you! Forgive me if I over-shared!!!
Good luck!
Its a lucistic trait, like blue eyed Lucy ball pythons. Occures in nature rarely, as it is a recessive trait and most white animals are predated before they can breed.
Thanks!
👍
L144 does not exist in the hobby anynore. It was a one off import that died out in the 1990s. This is Ancistrus cf. cirrhosus sometimes called ancistrus (sp4). Its a leucistic variant of the common ancistrus.
Yeah now it's called the 144(a) but parentheses throw off the title
2:34 there’s no melatonin in the skin 😭???
Correct
I meant melanin and said it like 4 other places lol just miss spoke
First!?
Winner
Look at guppies there getting sick more often bc if inbreeding guppies are less hardy bc of inbreeding
Totally
@@Fishtory wow u replied most CZcamsrs don’t care about there sub but I do think inbreeding is bad bc the genetic go heywire and the animals has stunted or shorten lifespan
@@anthonyruth5606 is always try and bring in new blood, even if it sets me back a few generations, to re-stabilize my phenotypes and traits.
Also, I try my hardest to respond to everyone who comments and watches, but it can be challenging hehe. Thanks for your insight and for watching.
Cheers.
@@Fishtory thx for responding but yay I do agree how it’s hard to get a nice color pleco but me when u start inbreeding any animal they become less hardy and have shorter lives sometimes I go to South America and bring bristlenose pleco so there isn’t inbreeding
@@anthonyruth5606 yes, some of the cheese creek and spotted xingu ancistrus have lovely tortoise shell patterns naturally anyhow
Thanks so much.
Glad I can be of assistance! 700 more videos of related content if you need more info in the future, as well. Cheers!