You Won't Believe What the Church of England Has Done Now...
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- čas přidán 30. 06. 2024
- The Church of England recently appointed Rachel Mann as archdeacon of Bolton and Salford in Manchester diocese. Rachel Mann is the first transgender archdeacon in the Church of England, and the response on both sides of the spectrum will be impassioned (to say the least). In the midst of the uproar, though, there are things which we can't afford to forget and pitfalls which we must avoid - and that's what I want to share in this video.
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#churchofengland
This is where tolerance leads you. And the church is destroying itself from within
In earlier times, a King witnessing this kind of debasement in his Church would've sent forces to dethrone errant bishops, and burnt heretics at the stake.
I fear we can't expect such leadership anymore! Either fight against this pernicious evil eating the Church from within, or leave it to rot. I won't participate in C of E or Anglican services unless the priest officiating has dedicated themselves to spiritual ministry, rather than coming across as a campaigning Labour / Lib Dem politician.
That's impossible. It was destroyed a long time ago. Openly homosexual Bishops have been the norm for as long as I can remember.
Totally right. Lets be intolerant just like Jesus was..... Oh hang on
The CoE has gone mad
True. Now in fairness there are still some good and godly people in it, but it’s hard to argue for the biblical credibility of it as a denomination at the minute.
a LONG time ago
Anything to fill pews
@@retribution999- it just might empty them.
Become Catholic, they are closed to true Christians than the Church of England which is a woke and dying religion.
as an ex-Anglican (now Catholic) I am not surprised at all. Apart from Mann being trans he has written a poem about the Trinity which is both offensive and total heresy. Mann may be a nice person but is NOT a Christian.
Fair. I read an article of Mann's about the "queerness" of the Trinity. Wild stuff.
I came across that poem recently. I am a very ordinary Anglican by birth., and it has brought to a head a growing feeling that I no longer recognise the Church. It may seem ridiculous to some, but it frightens and disgusts me that I might be buried or otherwise ministered to by a priest who finds that horror acceptable - or is perhaps enthusiastic about it.
Unfortunately the catholic church is going the same way, if in a slightly more underhand manner.
@@williamarthur4801 The Orthodox Church will be the last holdout.
The Roman Catholic Church has à traditional mouvement which is thriving. Its holds traditional views and values and refused to let the spirit jf the world enter the Church in contrast with the so called Vatica II Concile. Numbers are added all the time. The religious orders are blessed with vocations.Surely this is a sign of blessing from God.
He's called Nick Mann, and he has the most comically ironic second name
It was only a matter of time before someone mentioned the surname - I'm surprised it even took this long
I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them.
You're right. We are not called to violence or aggression against those with whom we disagree. But at the end of Romans 16, Paul does say to "avoid them" -- that is, once who teach things contrary to what we have received through the ministry of the apostles. And then Paul goes on to encourage us to be wise in what is good and innocent in what is evil. Let's be really busy learning and doing what God loves and commands.
Amen to that. How we should respond to the likes of this is a very different question; hopefully, though, this video was helpful in showing people how we shouldn't respond.
While you are busy avoiding them they are trampling the Christian lands into the ground. Do you seriously think that having a good talk with them will show them the error of their ways? Does anyone on here think telling the death camp guards how wrong they were would change the outcome?
people vote with your feet, do not go to the hellish cathedrals, flee from them
Even the pagans show love to their friends
Well said, sir. I found myself beginning to boil with rage upon hearing of this appointment, not because of her trans identity in itself, but because of her desire to gain a position of authority and leadership in church that will make it easier for her to peddle her blasphemous views on the nature of God and Christ, on which she has already written. And the CofE were, of course, fully aware of her controversial views that, unfortunately, most senior clergy now seem to support. I honestly believe that the liberal left-wing bishops are deliberately dismantling and destroying our faith and church so that it ceases to be a barrier to their warped ideology. And they are succeeding. They keep pleading with and submitting to the prevailing secular culture to gain its support in the misguided belief that that's what society needs - a secularised church, which is why church numbers are tumbling. They cannot seem to accept that Jesus was counter-cultural, not comfy-cultural. Here to create a new kingdom on earth. Not expand our earthly kingdoms. It is Jesus Christ, the one and only, who is our Lord and master. Not some champion of political activism.
Very well said. The bishops overwhelmingly voted at Synod in favour of the Living in Love & Faith blessings, but I believe among the laity it was much closer. It’s mad to me that those who are called to shepherd the church and uphold its doctrine are the very ones working against it - and for what good? This won’t stop the decline in numbers, only an actual move of God can do that.
You mean his trans identity... let us not perpetuate and affirm the mental delusions of such people
What actual demonstrable and verifiable evidence do you have that the ..Jesus of the Bible actually existed,and more importantly,performed the supernatural acts that his followers credited him with...Remember,there are no witnesses to these miracles outside the small circle of followers...and no mention of them outside the Bible itself...There were no eye witness accounts of his resurrection,just claims..all untestable,that he appeared to certain people after he died...Once again,none of these claims exist outside the bible...
@michaelabbott9080 the first hand accounts of the Bible for one... and the secondary confirmation of the contemporaneous historians such as Tacitus and Josephus. The New Testament, and the Bible more widely, are the most attested and affirmed historic documents in human history. Fact.
Every historian on earth affirms that Christ lived, was crucified by Pontius Pilate, and had a miraculous ministry of healings and exorcisms, it is a historical fact, they also affirm that Christ appeared to many people, in many different places. It's a fact that you're welcome to deny against all the historical scholars, atheist historians will use bad naturalistic explanations of these historic facts, one's that have been refuted, but they do not deny the facts themselves.
These issues have been trotted out ad-nauseum and yet uninformed atheists such as yourself fail, and refuse, to do the research that is widely available. I'd advise looking into Dr. Gary Habermas, Dr. William Lane Craig, Lee Strobel, etc etc etc. There are countless people you could look into.
Christ is Lord. You suppress the truth in unrighteousness. You are fully aware of God's existence yet choose to deny it to pursue sin.
@@Thomas-Purell-Ministry There are no first hand accounts of the resurrection in the bible..they are all second hand accounts...Tacitus was not born until approx 25yrs after the crucifiction...so he is not a contemporary source...Josephus was also not born until after the crucifiction,so he too is not a contemporary source...There are no contemporary non biblical sources...In fact,the earliest complete copy we have of Josephus works is dated over 1000yrs after the crucifiction.Tacitus work is dated at approx 100yrs after the date given for the crucifiction..Tacitus does not mention any of the miracles or the resurrection...
It might be the Church of England, it is certainly not the Church of Christ!
Dang. But fair. Though I'm sure there are still faithful believers and leaders within, and I do personally know a few of them.
When you join a club with rules why then is the first thing you do is break them?
It can be if you’re the one in power…
It may not be for us about winning the culture war; but to listen to Mann speak, that is absolutely what it's about. Mann appropriates a smattering of theological concepts and puts them directly in the service of a very strident yet frustratingly vague agenda. All the rest of the world fades away behind the one overpowering obsession of sexuality and gender expression. There are apparently no gatekeepers left even to insist that this person demonstrate a basic grasp of theology, much less to call it out when these same concepts concepts get twisted beyond recognition. How then can any discussion happen? There isn't enough shared language, agreed-on terms or common values to make a start of it. There seems to be no meaningful willingness in the upper hierarchy to insist upon these intellectual standards.
I can’t say I’ve heard Mann speak, but I also can’t say I’m surprised. It’s hard to imagine trans issues not being a huge focus of their ministry and life, even to the detriment of everything else.
Rachel Mann is alright. Her Thought for the Day and Daily Service talks are good. I do not agree with her prayer, recently. But, I think we should give her a chance.
@@London_miss234 Nope. Enough of the Church debasing itself by engaging in cultural politics and left-wing virtue-signalling.
Where is the spirituality in all of this? How is this appointment good for the ordinary people and the Church's ministry to them?
Marxist showboating at best, isn't it?
The Bible clearly says in Genesis that God created us male and female. How then can we take a transgender Dean seriously? Someone who believes that God made a mistake and made them the wrong gender in the first place. God is never wrong, which means that Rachel/ Nick Mann is wrong. It also calls into question a church which made a trans person a Dean.
These are all thoughtful vaĺuable comments.
Parishioners need to vote with their feet to fight the insanity that the Church of England has embraced.
What does she think happened to Sodom and Gomorrha and, more importantly, why?
Perhaps,taking a rationalist view of the Bible,the Archdeacon thinks that story is yet another of the many fables in the OT...
It's he, not she. Let us not affirm their mental illness and delusions.
@@Thomas-Purell-Ministry ..What exact medical qualifications do you have that qualify you to state that people are suffering from any form of mental illness...??..I presume you are at least a qualified psychiatrist who has experience in gender related issues...
She clearly understands what happened to Sodom and Gomorrah much better than you do!
WE MUST NOT BE VIOLENT, THAT'S FAIR, BUT STILL WE HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO STAND FIRM AGAINST SIN & WRONG DOINGS. TOLERANCE HAS, AS MANY OTHER THINGS, A PLACE & A LIMIT. ALL THIS "RACHEL " MANN ISSUE IS ABSOLUTELY NON CHRISTIAN & SHOULD BE TREATED ACCORDINGLY .
I agree that we can't be silent and let it slide, though how we oppose this is a topic for another video. As for Mann's salvation, I have no issue saying that they're in very ropey territory, but I'd be hesitant to outright say "they're not a Christian" because I don't know. I also can't say that with any certainty that Mann is a Christian, so that works both ways I guess.
@@AllThingsTheology MANN IS A CHRISTIAN BY NAME, LIKE MOST OF US, BUT NOT BY HIS DEEDS!
he needs to look down his pants, God is not confused
This Mann person is an apostate. The CoE is now an apostate ex-church. ‘Behold, I will spew you out of my mouth,’ said Christ. [Rev 3.16] This is NOT ‘conservative rage void of Christ’. Christ has enemies, and the enemies of Christ are the true enemies of true Christians. We are called to love our OWN enemies. We are NOT called to love the enemies of God.
If you're making a category of people that you're not called to love (the enemies of God), then that excludes all non-Christians from your love. Jesus condemned this attitude in his teaching (Matthew 6:43-48, "if you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even tax collectors doing that?); and the very gospel also undermines it, because while we were still God's enemies, Christ died for us (Romans 5:6-11).
Brother..with respect. Are we not commanded to love our neighbour? In the light of Christ died for all, are not ALL our neighbour?
You absolutely do have to love your own enemies AND the enemies of God, on pain of becoming one yourself. Christ loved his enemies and the enemies of God, because Christ WAS God. We’re supposed to do as he did.
Many thanks...i have been looking for someone (a christian) to talk like this for ages, to resist the great compulsion to "join a camp" and to stress that flesh and blood is not our enemy but powers in the heavelies that war against christ and the christian way. That stance isnt easy as it asks for a high spirituality, and the scriptures quoted are very apt (my kingdom not of this world etc) and i like the fact that you say youre still in the process of making your mind up on one or 2 aspects. I think thats so important in these days of knee jerk culture warfare. Keep these coming please!!
Thank you, that's encouraging to hear because that's very much what I aim for in my videos. I'm glad you found them helpful!
I agree with what you're saying & I think you put it very well. On the subject of identity, I do wonder about the identity of the Church of England as it is becoming quite blurred & difficult to make out what it is, which is very sad. I feel we must look to our own relationship with God to light a path. It doesn't matter which path as long as the journey we take leads us to him.
That's fair, and for many people, they feel that God is leading them out of the Church of England. That's sad, but I guess it's where we're at.
Thanks for your analysis. These issues are highlighting the lack of authority and democratic falicy of our church. I'm not sure where it’s going to end but for now we need to keep calling this departure from God’s ways out for what they are. Sad days.
Sad days indeed, but I guess we do what we can and trust that God will keep his Church.
Genesis 19...26 Then the Lord rained upon Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire...My God has serious issues with that type of sin.
Totally. I do have a video on Sodom & Gomorrah that you might find interesting
Can someone who identifies as a cat become an archdeacon ?
I hope we don’t have to find out
in the CofE; YES!!
@@marcokite Well you didn't pussyfoot around that one! 🙂
That cat is bishop material!
Whilst I agree with this overall I would rather go with Jesus and Paul who don't just call out ideologies but also strongly speak against people who propagate wrong teaching . Yes we should love people and yes it is not about winning the culture wars but I think the Bible does teach that we as Christians should oppose people who teach false doctrine and practice. There is a false dichotomy here between being loving to sinners made in the image of God and opposing them as Jesus and Paul did.
I agree. I'm not saying we shouldn't stand against this in any way, but this video was never meant to be an exhaustive take on how we should react to the appointment; it was more to curtail any un-Christlike rage and animosity. Perhaps I should have mentioned that in the video, but thanks for saying.
I think people are also bullied into thinking that simply stating the truth is 'hateful.' Simply saying that's there's only 2 genders/sexes, a man and woman, and that trans people aren't really becoming the other gender, only attempt to look like ones, it isn't 'hate', it's simply stating the fact of reality. It's very saddening that many churches parttake in this blurring the lines between the truth and confusion. Where's the responsibly of being the church? The responsibly of proclaiming the Gospel? I totally agree with what you say that it's false dychotomy: correcting and instructing isn't 'hate' it's actually standing for truth and love. Of course, it has to be done in a caring way, that goes without saying. But many people today think that it's wrong just on the principle, and that the only loving way is affirming.
With respect, Rachel Mann is first of all a man and overall I think it is essential - speaking the truth in love - to refer to him with a masculine pronoun if we are to retain our collective sanity in an age of madness.
You’re right than Mann is a man, and perhaps you’re right that we need to refer to them with male pronouns. I’m still working through that one, and probably aim for a more pastorally sensitive tone than many talking heads on the internet.
@@AllThingsTheologyI appreciate your desire to be sensitive, there is enough antagonism on this issue without unnecessarily adding to it and creating yet another barrier to communication.
That said when someone professes to be a Christian and know the will of God on this issue I personally feel it is condoning a lie to use female pronouns for someone like Mann. This makes it an issue of conscience in not going along with a secular fantasy, or in the case of supposed Christians high-handed rebellion against their Creator.
Speaking the truth yet in love can require a great deal of wisdom!
Love people as much as you can. Do not elevate this ideology within the church.
Amen. It's a tough balance to strike, but that's pretty much it.
All of that is true. And well said.
Having said that, I don’t see a lot of person-directed anger going in that direction, ie, anti-woke -> woke. But I do see it going in the opposite direction.
Thank you!
And yeah that’s probably fair, there certainly is a lot of anger coming that way.
Im from Manchester and you are right. It is liberal...Opressivley so. Me and my family maybe moving to Northern Ireland in future. Liberalism and Tolerance are NOT the same thing.
Personally, I think you might find NI very refreshing if that’s your issue with Manchester. Obviously nowhere is perfect, and NI has a lot of unique problems, but I think it’s a great place to live.
Very sensitively handled bro
Thanks bro
This was beautifully said. Thank you.
No problem, glad you appreciated it.
Thank you for information refreshingly voiced -bless you in your love for God and strong
commitment to Christianity I am 81 and thankful for young people showing their steadfastness and honest opinions My prayers are with you
Thank you, that’s much appreciated. I’m glad you enjoyed this!
I left the Episcopal church because of their woke agenda and my decision has been proven correct. It has become a woke coven of Gnosticism. I stand by the truth of the Bible and by teachings of Jesus on sin and evil.
I’m trans and agree to what you are saying. The world so polarised lately. Can’t we just all be united through faith?
May God have mercy on the Church of England because she is lost in the wilderness.
Amen.
Bible states God made us all perfect in His eyes. To 'change' ourselves is calling God a liar!
Where does it say that exactly? And if God already thinks we're perfect then why did Jesus have to die? Or why did Jesus give us any moral commands? Why did he say in Matthew 11:20-24 (and elsewhere) that there will be a judgement on those who reject him?
@@AllThingsTheology he knit us together perfectly in the womb. To then want to change, your saying God's a lia. That he didn't make you perfect.
@@AllThingsTheology we sin as we enter the world. Its perfectly formed. Not perfect in nature.
Love in the New Testament requires the keeping of God's Commandments. Why is this always overlooked when people mention "luv"?
Thankfully there are many credible alternatives in Bolton: the mosques.
Lol
I don’t wholly disagree with you with there is a difference between the actions and the person. That is, a homosexual can indeed be a saved Christian but said person must be celibate. Racheal Mann, however, can not be a church leader because he or she can not meet the requirements as stipulated by St. Paul.
I agree with you on that. I'm not saying we shouldn't push back against this, but I'm assuming that my audience will already be opposed to this sort of thing. This video was mainly a warning about the dangers of pushing back in an un-Christlike way.
@@AllThingsTheology Agreed. Solutions and actions MUST be Biblical.
Thank you I agree 😊
These people seem to see Jesus as a sociologist and not the Lord Jesus Christ who is the same yesterday today and forever.
Totally! A good example and a wise teacher perhaps, but certainly not the Lord of all.
This un- holy, blasphemous doggerel is a "prayer" from new Archdeacon Mann
Holy God, chuckling wise woman, tender and strange, we bless you.
Bless us, trouble us, bewitch us into delight in your love, mercy and grace.
Christ our Sister, unite us in your holy bleeding.
As you took spit and dust for healing,
take our hands, cracked and huge as washerwomen’s, for God’s work.
Take our sacred bodies for the healing of the world.
Birth-Spirit, as you coursed in intimacy through the veins
of Eve and Adam, Hagar and Abraham, Deborah and Lappidoth, Naomi and Ruth,
be the pulse of our lives. Desire us with your desire.
SHEEEESH. I normally try to be very generous to people and give them the benefit of the doubt... But dang. That's rough.
Im so glad I found this video of everything I think but someone put into words for me.
Thank you, I'm glad you found it to be so helpful.
It would have been good for your footnote at 2:54 to have been displayed a little longer or more prominently as many are pushing the idea that God hates the sin but loves the sinner, which ignores, for example, Psalms 5 and 7.
Thanks for your video.
Fair, maybe next time I’ll keep something like that on for longer.
Sidenote, I think it’s a misreading of those Psalms to say “God hates people.” If you used that same logic in other parts of Scripture and didn’t take into account the genre, you could argue that God forgets things (ie Genesis 8:1) or that God makes mistakes (ie Genesis 6:5-8 or 1 Samuel 15:11). I think the sentiment of God loving the sinner and hating the is still helpful as a representation of God’s character - though we also need to acknowledge his wrath.
I know it's not the case... I hope lol, but the fact a biological man posing as a woman has the last name Mann, just feels like a troll.
As a Muslim, I get where you are coming from. Allah is the Rahman and the Raheeem. The most compassionate and most merciful. But if you are unrepentant... there is a place the opposite of paradise for those. Declaring what is haram to be halal is one of those very major offenses. Another analogy, we can live in a land where people eat pork, that's everyone's prerogative, but if they want us to teach our children that eating pork pleases God, we cannot teach our children that, so we may need to leave. With respect to trans etc , we have to tell our kids, yes the State has taught you something, but those people are not concerned with pleasing Allah and getting into paradise, so put what they say in that context. BUT. BIG BUT, if you are in a Mosque where a so-called Imam says you must teach your children that people who alter their gender are doing something good, I can't see how you could stay in that Church... I mean Mosque. We have to flee away from such people's authority. May we be protected from the oppression of such people. Yes Caesar may have a right to our tax, but he has no right for us to say his carrying on with his manservants is OK. One more observation from a non-Trinitarian Group. The JW's: they don't even salute the flag and famously don't say the "pledge of allegiance" that was once compulsory in the USA, because they do not want to honor or worship anything but GOD. In contrast, the Church of England flies the anything-goes-ideology-multi-coloured flag, and I just cannot believe that so-called believers just sit there like empty vessels, and have that ideology poured into their heads. We hope you Christians can pull out of your slump, because we liked living with you.
That's interesting to hear your perspective on this as a Muslim, thanks for sharing. Having a government/culture which is opposed to your laws and scriptures is one thing, but when that opposition comes from people whose job it is to teach those scriptures... That's a whole other thing. Sadly the Church has succumbed to a bit of that - though I do find it comforting that Jesus warned us this would happen. It's good to know that he isn't caught off-guard by it all.
I agree with everything you said...but has there actually been much violent aggression going directly towards Rachel Mann? I haven't seen any examples, it might have been good to include examples of said aggression seeing as that was what you were basing your main point on...which was a good and valid reminder, don't get me wrong!
I don't know of any, probably because those people watched my video and decided against it...
Jokes. But I made this video shortly after the appointment was announced, so it was more anticipating a potential response to it.
I don’t understand why people keep saying that they are part of the CoE when the CoE doesn’t exist anymore.
It’s just the “of England” now
This just proves that the trans movement just reinforces gender roles. What could the catholics say about a woman priest being wrong if the priest is in fact a dude? (and let's say straight and celibate to rule out the living in sin argument). It's honestly just a hilarious parody of everything. But I'm only laughing because otherwise I'd be crying.
I do think trans priests would be slightly more controversial than female priests lol. But it is a funny thought
Being transgender would also be considered disordered (as in out of order). (similarly as with homosexuality, it would be not about an inclination/attraction - which one can't control - but it's the actions, eg following the transgender lifestyle, that would be considered sinful) Definitely couldn't be accepted as a priest.
I dunno... I think we have tended to be too charitable and long suffering with these false teachers. The CofE has been so desirous to be diverse, tolerant and inclusive, that they have practically built an idol of these catchphrases at the expense of obedience to the truth.
If one were to recite, word for word, Christ's call to "repent and believe the gospel".... For many in the congregation, this would be considered naively idealistic and out of date. Indeed, some would be thinking... "Silly fellow! He should take a leaf out of the good Archdeacons sermon...Love is the way to God...and love is expressed in accepting all people, wherever they are at in how THEY see God....Love love love...says that there are many paths to God. It is arrogant and offensive to believe otherwise."
And in Christian's desire to persuade these "unorthodox" people, it does not occur to us that, not only have they formed God in their own image, many are actually tares among the wheat. They are not saved. And some who lead us are not only preaching another gospel... They are actually enemies of the gospel...wolves in sheeps clothing! The Apostle Paul, knowing the damage these people do, was much harsher on false teachers... so much so that he promoted church discipline concerning orthodox belief. We don't see discipline these days. Instead, the wolves are freezing out the orthodox Priests... and preventing them from being ordained. But Paul says of this alternate gospel preacher "Let him be accursed!" Why so harsh?
Because they are leading people en-mass on the broad road to destruction...well away from the narrow gate of full gospel truth that leads to life. Jesus is exclusively the way in that there is no other name given under heaven bu which we MUST be saved. And obedience to the truth is every bit as important as love. How can we say we love if we do not speak the truth.
Galatians 1:6-9
6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel-- 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned.
I think that's entirely fair. I'm not necessarily saying that we shouldn't speak against this, merely that we shouldn't do so in a way that's un-Christlike. This wasn't an exhaustive video on how to approach it because there's a lot of nuance required and I couldn't really fit that into a 7 minute video.
@@AllThingsTheology Sure. I understand what you are saying, and the limitations of a short message on a big subject. Thanks for your response and the point of clarification offered. Peace be with you! 🙏
@@haweavivian48 you're welcome, thanks for your comment and peace be with you too 🙏
The issue of cultural warfare is not the real issue. It is a spiritual warfare. “Ephesians 6:12 - For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Ephesians 6:13 - Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.”
You are missing the point. The Bible, being the Word of God, is the only rule of faith and practice. Are sexual aberrations contrary to Biblical authority? The answer clearly is Yes! This principle applies to every area of our Christian belief and practice.
I'm not disagreeing, but this video was about a specific type of response to this which I think is unchristlike. It certainly wasn't an exhaustive study on what the Bible teaches about gender.
Andrew, I agree with your premise that hating on Rachel Mann, or on any transgender person for that matter, is neither Biblical not Christ-like. But, as I see it, the problem is not with Rachel Mann being appointed archdeacon. The problem is with the C of E giving him any position of leadership at all. Is this the type of leader we find Apostles Paul and Peter speaking of, by the Holy Spirit and in the Epistles, to be Deacons and Elders of Christ's precious Church? I think not. Clearly the C of E has entered in to the dark realm of apostasy and all those true to Christ their Savior and to his Holy Word aught to "abandon ship!! On the double!!" Mike Pereira, Toronto, ON, Canada.
I think you're right, and it certainly speaks to the COE's trajectory that it not only allows ministers to live in unrepentant sin, but elevates them to senior positions and celebrates that very sin.
@@AllThingsTheology
Hello Andrew, thanks for taking the time to acknowledge my comment. I'm a non-denominational Christian, but am always interested in knowing what's happening in Christ's Church, be they denominational or not. Would you happen to know what has inspired the Church of England to make such radical, ungodly decisions, that is causing many to leave the C of E? --Mike.
@@michaelpereira8937 I'm not entirely sure - as with many things, there are probably innumerable factors at play. It's certainly something that has been going on for a long time, and I guess it's just an example of the church trying to fit in with the culture and not be too offensive.
@@AllThingsTheology Thanks Andrew, those were my thoughts, as well. Take care. Mike
The "Laodician" Church pictures the condition of the end time church and the warning to the church given by Jesus himself is : I am about to spit you out of my mouth. 17 You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. 18" "
Amen! I referenced that very passage a lot in my other Church of England video. It feels extremely relevant.
@AllThingsTheology would make an interesting study .
The messages to the 7 churches of Revelation and how they apply to the condition of the church at various times throughout the churches history ?
Laodicea seems to be very relevant to the state of the " institutional" church today especially in the west ?
@@RAFAEL27769 yeah that would be really interesting - perhaps I could make a video around it. I'd need to study it a good bit more first, though. But yeah I think the comparison between some corners of the western church and Laodicea are striking
Excellent video. I have subscribed. You are so right about avoiding ad hominem attacks and rudeness or “violence” in this immensely challenging debate and matter. Confront the message but don’t lose respect for the person, God-made, of the messenger. Sadly, too many today, either ignore the critical distinction you call out or, just as bad, think we must endorse everyone and every view except those that criticise other views. So, you endorse unrestricted transgenderism because that is just making more possibilities and freedoms available for everyone, while - quietly and perhaps a little nervously - agreeing that transgender activists shouldn’t shout down and abuse their critics (including lesbians and free speech supporters) :(
I think you’ve hit the nail on the head there. Those are the two absolutes of the culture war, but we as Christians can’t sink to that. We’ll do things that each side will agree with, but also things that they’ll disagree with, and we’ve just got to accept that.
I often think of the words of Jesus Christ: "let he who is without sin cast the first stone". I don't see the pride movement as generally a good thing, and am sure that some within it are unpleasant and evil people (as are some outside it too!) but I can never blame people who are gay or sexually deviant - it is not my place to do so, nor to judge them. That said, I am happy to battle against those who try to subvert Christianity or who blaspheme against Christ, and if this person indeed does that s/he should be countered by all Christians.
I think that’s always going to be a helpful perspective to have. Granted, I think it needs balanced against Jesus’ teaching that we should help others out of their sin and even rebuke them (Matt. 7:5, 18:15-17); though we shouldn’t expect non-Christians to live by Christian standards (Matt. 7:6).
It takes a lot of wisdom to know how to balance all of this and live out what we believe.
God is a God of love and we are all sinners. But the bible also speaks of judgement day. Which will be brutal. I think our lifestyle should reflect our application of what Jesus did, and we should live so as to bring glory to God…
For those who do not believe, the wrath of God rests upon them!
How can the church expect to be blessed when we turn away from Gods word we leave people uncovered
Catholics: how’s breaking away and starting your own church working for you?
Let's maybe aim for a spirit of unity in spite of our differences, and not celebrate each other's failings.
@@AllThingsTheology Fair enough, you have my apologies.
@@AG-vb6vv no worries, I respect you saying that. It is easy to get carried away with things on the internet, and I'm sure I've been guilty of it too.
I agree with your point overall but I think your scales are messed up at the minute.
"We direct the fashionable outcry of each generation against those vices of which it is in the least danger, and fix its approval on the virtue that is nearest the vice which we are trying to make endemic. The game is to have them all running around with fire extinguishers whenever there’s a flood; and all crowding to that side of the boat which is already nearly gone under.”
― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters
I'm afraid, brother, you're concerned with the least of the problems. You're concerned with the 'conservative rage that is totally void of Christ' and you're obviously correct about it. However, can you see the size of the problem you're dealing with? You have a 'transgender' 'archdeacon' in the Church - isn't that a reason to be ashamed? Isn't that a bigger deal than a few people being enraged about it?
I say this in love.
God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”
Hey, thanks for the kind tone here, I appreciate that. I do agree with your point actually, and I’m not saying that the conservative rage is worse than a transgender archdeacon. My audience, though, is much more likely to succumb to that rage than they are to affirm transgenderism, so I’m assuming that loveless rage is the more common error for them. My views on trans ideology and progressive Christianity as a whole are well-documented and I share them online a lot.
@@AllThingsTheology Fair. Thanks for your work, brother.
I am Nisha from sri lanka .i see this page and i like...please help me jeasus Name...Amen AMEN
Come quickly Lord Jesus !!!!
Amen!
Excellent news for Rachel and for the Church
Calvin Robertson a orthodox priest has been denied ordination in the C of E yet they can induct a transgender as arc decon, Paul will 6:01 say that we have another gospel which is not of christ nor his teachings
Yeah that’s wild to me. Calvin Robertson certainly doesn’t pull his punches when he’s critiquing the COE though so I’m not surprised they don’t let him in
I don't know what the CofE is practicing by making such an appointment but it clearly is not Christianity. The Bible is quite specific and should not be disregarded by a body purporting to follow it.
You’d think that would be fairly obvious, but apparently not.
George, the CoE is basically finished. Same sex blessings, transgender deacons, involved in LGBT pride events, considering making God gender neutral. Any wonder that GAFCON churches now represent 85% of the Anglican communion. Many African Anglicans live in poverty, but they don't compromise on scripture. Thank God for them.
This is why not having an enforcable canon law or catechism to refer to. CoE needs to look to Saint Thomas More
Remember the people who christ invited to the table. But they went away changed not christ. This is an example today. We don't come to christ and try and change him it's the opposite. Love the sinner hate the sin. If you don't stand for God you stand for nothing.
Amen. People like to gloss over the fact that Jesus didn’t just leave people as they were.
1 Samuel 15:24 - “And Saul said unto Samuel, I have sinned: for I have transgressed the commandment of the LORD, and thy words: because I feared the people, and obeyed their voice.”
When sexual preferences are more important than Gods word and will, they are, in effect, idolatry, they have replaced God.
It amounts to:Z
“God, you have no right to tell me what to believe, I’ll tell YOU what I want to believe; God you have no right to tell me what to think, I’ll tell YOU what I think; God, you have no right to tell me how to behave, I’ll tell YOU how I will behave; God you have no right to tell me who I may or may not have sex with, I’ll tell YOU who I’ll have sex with. You see God, it’s time you grew up, I know better than you, I’m worldly wise and street wise, more informed, more caring than you; more intelligent and sophisticated than you . If you disagree with me, I will simply put it to a vote and exercise my man ordained democratic rights and then your authority will be replaced by our ideology.
So they themselves have become their own god. They have created a mental image of a god that just so happens to agree with all their preferences. The mental image is no different to a graven image.
1 Samuel 15:23 - For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.” ( or a bishop in these cases!)
🔥
Worshipping in the Bury and Rossendale deanery means that I've met Rachel Mann on several occasions and I've always found her to be perfectly capable of preaching the gospel.
That said, I can understand the reaction online and in the media to her recent appointment as archdeacon of Bolton and Salford.
My hope is that the Church of England can find a way to split amicably in the next few years rather than having to put up with this unhelpful 'us' vs. 'them' narrative.
I am hopeful that Rachel and the new Bishop of Bolton Matthew Porter will be able to demonstrate how to work together constructively while holding different views.
When you're in the online world it can be easy to forget that the people involved in this are real people; and Manchester diocese is really close to me. I was actually there a few months ago. So I'm really not trying to be unnecessarily divisive or mean-spirited when I say that I have serious issues with Rachel Mann's theology, practise and thus their fitness for ministry. Mann may be able to articulate the gospel perfectly clearly, but they are living unrepentantly in clear and open violation of God's revealed will. I don't think it's right for 'progressive Christians' to try and twist the arm of the Biblically-faithful, holding them to the Bible's command for unity, when they themselves reject the commands of God which don't suit them.
How can Rachel Mann hold a position of authority in any Christian church whenever he believes that God made him in the wrong gender? Beginning from a position where God put you in the wrong wrong body isn't a very good start. But God doesn't get things wrong. The book of Genesis says that ..male and female he created them. That never changes. It also states in Genesis and Jesus reiterates that ..a man will leave his mother and father and will be united with his wife,and the two will become one flesh.. if the CoE read the scriptures there would be find out that there are two genders, and that marriage is between a man and a woman. But they don't accept the scriptures and have become a laughing stock. There will be a split in the church. GAFCON and the Anglican churches of the global South now account for 85% of the Anglican communion. The CoE is way out on its own. God will not be mocked.
@@WHU63 I know the transgender thing is difficult to grasp, but when someone has changed their gender, the custom is to respect that by using the person's preferred pronouns, so Rachel Mann is not 'he' but 'she'.
The Church of England needs to split so that those people who think that the world was created in 7 days and that the Book of Genesis is a God-given mandate can believe that and gather like-minded individuals, and those of us who respect people's choices can likewise flourish.
Some pruning needs to go on so that both plants can survive, rather than just dying out.
@@AllThingsTheology That's fine for you to have serious issues and to voice them, and I would not want to hold you to the Bible's command for unity - I think it would be in the best interests of both sides to split as amicably as possible and simply say that we cannot work together.
Of course, that's not going to happen since the CofE doesn't want to lose half its assets, so in the meantime we have to try to work alongside each other in the best way that we can: act justly, love mercy and walk humbly with God.
@@andrewlowe5102 The problem with changing gender Andrew is that it is scientifically impossible. Biological women are born with ovaries and a uterus. They have the ability to conceive children and nurture them with breast milk. Surgeons can't change a biological man into a women by means of surgery. Nor can a biological woman become a man. Transgender therefore is a delusion as are the so-called preferred pronouns that accompany it.
😢
The CoE is disappointing King Henry the founder
This is completely and utterly dishonouring to God. This mentally disturbed person should not be ordained.
I personally wouldn’t use the phrase ‘mentally disturbed’ because I don’t think it would be that helpful when talking to trans people, but I do agree with the sentiment. Perhaps I’m wrong, but I don’t want to use language that is going to aggravate trans people when I can say the same thing in a less inflammatory way.
@@AllThingsTheology Good for you then!
The clue is in his name. MANN !
Talk about jobs for the boys I wonder what J C would say about it
Makes me sick in the guts!
What do you expect when the head of the church is the Royal Family.
I think basically THE BIBLE states that this appointment is completely against what God would want, well demands. You're confusing humility with tolerance . This goes completely against the doctrine of the church. Of which I'm not an expert but I do know the important points. I left the Anglican Church years ago , after converting from Catholicism. I am now a Baptist. In this is all simply to obey the Bible. As a human being I am/have been corrupt to the core. This is not finger pointing but we cannot openly allow what God's word clearly forbids. It is dangerous confusion.
I’m not saying we should endorse this, merely that we shouldn’t be hateful in our response to it. My views on transgenderism are very well-documented and it shouldn’t be hard to find a video where I discuss it.
Absolutely disgusting that someone of this calibre is representative of God's church. He shud resign immediately. It is a sin.
a stench in the nosstrils of the Living God, their eternal destiny will be hell fire
Discussed
There is a need for theologists to recall the second commandment. Love thy neighbour. There is no commandment greater than the first two.
The second thought I have's to recall Luke's Good Samaritan. Would a modern Good Samaritan be discriminatory?
Not discriminatory, but I think you're mischaracterising the Christian response here. Jesus does command us in Matthew 7:5 to correct each others' mistakes. He also warns us in Matthew 24 about false prophets who will deceive many and turn them away from the gospel. So if Rachel Mann is a false teacher who turns people away from following Jesus, is there not a burden on me to love those whom Mann is misleading? And point them towards the real Jesus of Scripture, rather than the twisted Jesus of 'progressive Christianity'?
Thank you. Rather than cherry picking Jesus' life, I prefer to believe on the lines of the parables. The Good Samaritan and then the Prodigal Son. Would a latter day father have welcomed the son had he undergone trans gender transformation?
@@johnrickett6137 Looks like you're actually cherry-picking.
But as Paul wrote in Phillipians ch3 these people are enemies are the cross of Christ. Don't confuse love with what the world deams as love. Love does not rejoice in evil and those who have embrased transgender ideology have embrased what is evil.
If you do not discipline laity you will get bad clergy. And enough with we have to love the people who wish to destroy the Church from within. St Paul is clear we are free to love those who are without and are doing evil but anyone who does evil while in the Church must be shunned. Love what God loves, hate what God hates
I agree that there should be options for, or enforcement of, disciplining clergy who teach all kinds of wild stuff. The treatment of false teachers is a complex thing to balance though, because everything (even disciplining and rebuking) must be done in love. The rebuking of false teachers is indeed an act of love which aims to turn them away from their false teaching, but it might not necessarily look like love to those who don't know God.
I think the bare minimum standard is to not be a jerk, though. That's essentially what this video was about.
@AllThingsTheology faithful love is not generic love but love that we have when we trust that someone cares about us. We can faithfully love without condoning. Condoning bad behaviour is not faithful love nor is treating stupidity with kids gloves. That is why we have a lot of gay priests who should have long been expelled as laity
Disgraceful, I left the ministry because c of e think they are above God's word I thought we were as Christians to rise above carnality and focus on spirituality.
Come Lord Jesus.
That's becoming a very common story - I saw recently that Rico Tice has left the Church of England. It's really not good - here's praying that same tide doesn't sweep through the Church of Ireland.
Being an orthodox Anglican I have now joined GAFCON. Thanks for the video.
@@kevindolan9542 yeah I think as things get crazier, GAFCON will probably become a little less fringe than what it is at the minute. Glad you appreciated the video, God bless!
You are very confused. Do not be deceived, God cannot be mocked!
Ah okay, thanks for clearing that up for me. There's me thinking God could be mocked
God loves ALL humans BUT. hates the SIN & the thought of commiting that Sin. To allow that within Gods word is APOSTASY. THE GREAT COMMISSION
Totally.
Come to confessional lutheranism, my friend. Let Anglicanism to its decadence.
Welby is a heretic, us mere mortals can not change the scriptures to suit, there will be a separation of the CoE, I have sympathy but also need to follow my convictions
The Talmud, the Jewish book of the law states there are 8 gender variations. Jesus would have been familiar with this. There is nothing in the new testament to say that it is forbidden. Yes it mentions sexual immorality, debauchery, it also mentions homosexuality and divorce and remarriage. There is one verse (deut. 22 v5) that mentions clothing and thats it. But it needs to be taken in the context it was meantt for, and Deuteronomy also has many other laws that we would consider barbaric and illegal these days. For a person who has suffered gender dysphoria for many years, for which the only cure is transition, and living their lives quietly, serving God, what is the issue? I dont see why this lady shouldnt be accepted as a child of the risen Lord and be able to continue in her ministry just like any other person. My question is this...... who did Jesus choose as disciples? Who led the early church? Was it those who followed the law and lived impeccable lives, or was it a ragtag bunch of reprobates who would never have been accepted by the pharisees and teachers of the law? I wonder who He would choose now if He were to come back as a man again? Link to article about the 8 genders below.....
www.myjewishlearning.com/article/the-eight-genders-in-the-talmud/
The thing of 8 genders in the Talmud isn't true. It's a deliberate misreading of the Talmud.
The concept of gender doesn't appear, it has no bearing on Jewish law. It's not denied or rejected, it's just not there.
What has been incorrectly identified/portrayed as genders are the usual two sexes, two intersex conditions (in both cases the Halacha pretty much assumes that the person is essentially one or the other sex, we just can't tell which - it's not a third sex or a gender identity), and two developmental disorders where people don't reach sexual maturity (which is related to legal maturity/majority in Jewish law) - they're unequivocally the same sex they were born. I don't know why it's often described as someone developing characteristics of the opposite sex, it's actually described as eg a girl not getting pubic hair, not a woman who gets hair on her chest. The new two are just when the developmental disorders aren't developmental, they're a result of human action, like castration (again, not a man growing breasts etc).
I think the idea of gender in the Talmud came from liberal theologians who tried to 'queerise' the Talmud for their benefit.
WHAT DID JEUSUS DO,, NOT WHAT WOULD JESUS DO AND HE THREW OUT THE WRONG PEOPLE FROM THE SYNAGOGUE. GOD MADE A MAN AND A WOMAN, THIS OTHER IS OD SATAN.
P S The speaker is too wishy-washy!
If you're looking for a more aggressive or fiery tone, that's not me I'm afraid. There's plenty of diversity in the body of Christ, so I don't mind being an alternative for people who love truth but aren't fussed on that sort of thing.
Get out now. Dont think you can stay in an apostate Church and change things. Get out. Look for a good Bible believing Church. Preferably independent, accountable to the Lord Jesus Christ. Not to a bunch of unregenerate Bishops.
Thankfully the Church of Ireland is in a very different place to the Church of England. Hard to see how I could stay in the COE if I was there.
The 'love the sinner, hate the sin' doctrine is old and played. God wants all people to come into His word and His love. We as Christians love to stake value on people because something about them makes us uncomfortable. There are over thirty Bible verses on charity. Why, as Christians, we do not spend all our time and energy on helping the poor and disadvantaged, the hurt, sick and dying? Why are we not offering comfort and succour to those who are trafficked or are affected by war? Why are we spending time and energy on how people identify themselves and who gets to wear dresses and makeup? There are two commandments from Christ 1) have no other God before me and 2) treat people as you want to be treated. If you were Rachel Mann, is this how you would want to be treated? Why cannot Christians lead with love and acceptance, and leave what people wear, who they love and how they see themselves between them and God?
Christians are leading the way in helping the poor, oppressed, trafficked, orphaned, disadvantaged etc. Off the top of my head I can think of Tearfund, International Justice Mission, Christian Aid, Leprosy Mission, Aspire NI, Storehouse NI, Open Doors, Reach Mentoring, Made For More, Stand By Me, Big House Ireland... All fantastic Christian-led organisations working with/for the marginalised. So you can hardly say that Christians aren't doing that.
However, the same God who commands us to do justice also says that he made us male and female. You can't take God's teaching on justice but ignore his teaching on gender & sexuality.
@@AllThingsTheology and l would reply with 200yrsof Christian support for and profits made from slavery...I would argue that in the 2major social revolutions in Europe in the last 225 years,that French and Russian revolutions,the church clearly and openly sided with the repressive rulers,not the oppressed..and even claimed that this was gods will...Even at this moment,the Orthodox Church is supporting Putins invasion of Ukraine...Let us not examine too closely the relationship of the Catholic Church and the fascist movements in both Italy and Germany in the 1930s and WW2...even helping wanted Nazi war criminals flee to Sth and Central America after the war..Let us gloss over the Catholic church's horrific treatment of unmarried mothers in the homes they provided..Let us not look too closely at its opposition to integration and civil rights in the USA.nor its support and blessings for repressive military regimes in Argentina,Uruguay,Paraguay,Chile,Brasil,El Salvador etc.regimes who openly jailed and murdered those who opposed them.Their subsequent persecution of their own priests when they stood up against these regimes..the mighty Liberation Theologists,who ended up recalled and placed in front of the current version of the Inquisition...Let us not mention during the AIDS crisis,the church's condemnation of condom use in developing nations when it knew they would save lives...and of course,the monumental abuse of children by priests and the church's criminal conspiracy to cover it up....Yes,there are Christians who do very good work...but the Christian church itself has a dismal record of exploitation,violence and the oppression of marginalised peoples when doing so is in their own interest.....
Spoken like a true atheist and pagan who has no understanding of The Bible or the true faith at all. Christ did not teach "treat others as you wish to be treated"...
Nick Mann is an outright and willful heretic who doesn't have saving faith in Christ. He is much like many CofE "clergy" these days, and that is why I'm leaving the CofE and pursuing ordination elsewhere. Scripture explicitly teaches that God created humans male and female, trans is a mental illness and delusion. Scripture also explicitly teaches that many human behaviours are sinful, such as engaging in homosexual activity, why? Because it's contrary to God's will for peoples right living, as are many things we willfully engage in and even celebrate in our lost culture.
"Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God." 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
"Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness." James 3:1-2
"It is true that if a man wants to be a church leader, he wants to do a good work. A church leader must be a good man. His life must be so no one can say anything against him. He must have only one wife and must be respected for his good living. He must be willing to take people into his home. He must be willing to learn and able to teach the Word of God. He must not get drunk or want to fight. Instead, he must be gentle. He must not have a love for money. He should be a good leader in his own home. His children must obey and respect him. If a man cannot be a good leader in his own home, how can he lead the church? A church leader must not be a new Christian. A new Christian might become proud and fall into sin which is brought on by the devil. A church leader must be respected by people who are not Christians so nothing can be said against him. In that way, he will not be trapped by the devil." 1 Timothy 3:1-7
@@gullwingstorm857 Why should anyone believe what the Bible says..??
Leviticus 18: 22 thou shall not lie with mankind , as with womankind, it is abomination.
I’m not sure what that passage has to do with this video, but sure. I’ve got a video on that passage which you might like
There's been gay vicars n deacons for years now.
That's true, and 'coincidentally' the Church fo England has been in rapid decline for years. Not to say that that's the only factor, but certainly God cannot bless the ministry of those who defy him.
Christianity is weak and you prove it so well ...weak men create bad times!!
Apologies if you saw my previous response, it was probably a little snarky.
You’re right that Christianity is weak. We preach a crucified Saviour; we believe that greatness comes through living as a servant; we’re commanded to humbly put others first rather than seeking power for ourselves. However, God works through weakness to flex his greatness, which is why this ‘weak’ religion has outlasted every empire and dictator in history, and why it thrives in persecution (ie the church in China or North Korea).
That’s kinda the gist of 1 Corinthians 1:18-31, it’s a very famous passage on this.
corrupt organisation
Psalm 5v5. God hates👍
I’d perhaps suggest looking into imprecatory Psalms as a genre. Without considering genre you could also say that God forgets things (Hebrews 8:12), and clearly that’s not true.
Have to say, i think your video is full of contradictions. Would you be showing love to someone by not using their pronouns, even if you think its nonsense? You rightly say Rachel is created in the image of God. Yet your passive opposition suggests you dont respect that. Its a difficult issue i get but what has this video done? It seems to, by the comments, fuel disrespect
What makes you think that using someone's preferred pronouns is an act of love? If I were to do so, it would probably come from me wanting to appease the person and maintain a reputation of being nice; but 1 Corinthians 13 tells us that love is not self-seeking, and it rejoices in the truth.
As for fuelling disrespect, I have no control over how people respond to this video and I can't accept responsibility for anything unkind that is said. However, I have removed comments that I deemed unloving and mean.
@@AllThingsTheology love is not self seeking. The love i show to you, isnt self seeking. If i want people to call me Gary because the name given to me by my parents hurts me, if you chose not to because you disagree with me, i wouldnt see that as being very loving. To you, its just a word, to me it comes with pain. Which would be more loving, to cause pain to me or just use a word?
Youre very clear that disrepect or aggression isnt Christ like, i totally agree. But i do wonder if even the title of your video brings with it a leading perspective.
@@dandsn are we talking about pronouns or names? I have less of an issue with calling someone by a different name than with calling them by their preferred pronouns.
When we're trying to work out what to do as Christians, there's more to factor in than just 'be loving', because God has very clear teachings about certain things. So where we might see it as loving to let people live however they want to, James 5:19-20 speaks of how good a thing it is to lead someone back to the truth when they've wandered. So I certainly don't think the loving thing in this case is to say to Mann, "you do you, there are no issues with your ministry or lifestyle."
@@AllThingsTheology but James is refering to the ways of Christ. The truth being Jesus. You seem to contradict here again. Youre video states God doesnt have a problem with Trans people. That they are made in the image of God.... And she has asked you (society) to call her he/she (im presuming as you dont inform what rachels pronouns are so lets us this as an example) by you not using she/her you know it would cause hurt. You said God hasnt got an issue with trans people, so why do you - by not using the preferred pronouns of a trans person suggests that you dont recognise them as trans. I agree God has very clear teachings about things, gender doesnt seem to be one. What God does very clearly teach, love one another as i have loved you - wash the feet of all, heal all, die for all.
@@dandsn I believe our disagreement stems from what you said at the end there, that "gender doesn't seem to be one" of the things God has clear teachings about. I disagree entirely, and so whilst I maintain that God loves trans people, I also believe that they are living contrary to God's intentions and design. Jesus says "whoever loves me obeys my commands", so to live in direct and unrepentant violation of Scripture's teaching on gender is something of a problem.
The words, "an offence to God" need to be used with a very great deal of thought; because of the theological, and anthropological, implications in such a statement. You are proposing that the creator God of the cosmos and of Israel, who was embodied, taught, crucified and rose from the dead is "offended" by a transgender person functioning as an Archdeacon. Was that same God offended BEFORE his/her appointment as Archdeacon - when he/she was a mere 'presbyter'? Or does hierarchy infuse the 'offence' with more gravitas? "The bible - so consequently God - is opposed to"? (02:45) Here we have the problem. We are not MUSLIMS! So, consequently, our scriptures are not God: and nor are they God's actual words, just as they stand. Nor is God constrained by the pages of our scriptures: where were our scriptures when God was 'creating' the cosmos? "God is opposed to transgenderism: but He is not opposed to transgender people"! How do you know? As a homosexual Christian, who has been privileged to share forty years with a wonderful gentle Atheist, I have heard so many Christians use this same phraseology on us over the adult part of my seventy-one years. You know "because the bible tells me so!" But the bible tells you lots of things which you CHOOSE not to follow or obey. Paul, especially, is fairly strict on the role of women, generally, within the Church. Perhaps you follow Paul (not God!) to the letter on that, too? The bible is the collected and edited thinking of human beings, over thousands of years, about the creator God of Israel. Sometimes I even think it is a wonder that God is revealed DESPITE all that effort: not because of it! Our scriptures were carefully chosen, by human beings, in order to help us in our perception, and conception, of God. They are not our only source of 'revelation': else, how was that "wandering Aramean" called out from Ur; before our scriptures had been compiled? It took almost three hundred years for the New Testament to be selected from the literature available: it was not "handed down from on high". Then you add the 'translation' factor. I have just purchased Dr David Bentley Hart's own translation of the New Testament; and the footnotes serve as a salutoriy lesson in how translation can entirely suit the past translators' prejudices, and thinking.
It would appear that we have a fundamentally different view of Scripture, revelation and authority than each other, and that isn't going to work itself out in a CZcams comments section. I could answer all of your objections, but you'd disagree with all of my responses because we're coming from totally different places.
@@AllThingsTheology I agree!
@@HagiaSophia1952 hopefully we'll meet in Heaven - I'm sure we'll agree by that stage.
Liberal Christians either have a low view of scripture, or no view of scripture. This enables them to make the bible perfectly coincide with their own feelings. Deut 22:5 states... “A woman shall not wear a man’s clothing, nor shall a man put on a woman’s clothing; for whoever does these things is utterly repulsive to the Lord your God." This is a moral command and it is incumbent on you to explain why it ought to be ignored. Ultimately, the liberal must advocate that the Lord finds this behaviour repulsive.... until a week on Tuesday when he completely changes his mind and blesses it. The liberals approach is simply incoherent and reduces God breathed scripture to the mumblings of ill-educated bigots.
@@fletcherchristian6522 I have noticed that "bible-believing Christians", such as your good self, often use expressions such as "God-breathed scripture", without defining what they mean by that. You also love to label people: "Liberal Christians" in this case; again sans definition. I suspect you mean all 'non-fundamentalist' church-goers; but I don't want to second-guess, or speak for you. From the example you provide here, of a "moral command", I assume you hold a very low view of Pantomime? You CHOOSE to read OUR scriptures (they are not just yours!) in the way you do and - in support of reading them this way - you cite scripture, in a circular argument. I do not have a "low view of scripture" just because I choose to treat them differently from the manner in which you do. I simply read them in the light of, as much of the past century's scholarship, as I am able to take on board. But - at the end of the day - if I attest that the creator God of Israel was embodied n the young male Jew, Jesus, crucified and risen - why does it bother you how I reach that conclusion?
Good on you, young man. You have this Yank's admiration.
Thank you, much appreciated.
Oh no will the church be converted to a mosque
I wouldn't be surprised tbh