How the Lasombra joined the Camarilla - Chicago by Night V5 Review
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- čas přidán 31. 01. 2020
- Josh reviews Vampire the Masquerade 5th Edition's Chicago by Night book that contains the Lasombra, their story of joining the Camarilla, and all the creepy stuff happening in chicago that you can use to make your own Vampire Chronicle!
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The Lasombra: Starts the Sabbat
Also the Lasombra: Leaves the Sabbat to join the Camarilla
@@skeletonking4119 Yeah! And now it's our time to abandon the ship called V5.
@@ruzovaberuska ah do shut up you whiner
Lasombra always played both sides without seeming to.
Lasombra: start the Sabbat to fight the antediluvians. Also Lasombra: leave the sabbat and join the camarilla, who serve the antediluvians. because... why not? for shits and giggles. and because a lot of cammy players wanted to play lasombra. and somehow didnt want to play lasombra antitribu.
Lancastrianer v5 is soo bad
I wonder if this book answers the biggest Chicago mystery: how Garwood Marshall was embraced six years before his sire?
Simple typo. If you read Garwoods entry in CBN it says he wasnt embraced until after WW2, which ended in 1945. Garwoods Embrace date should have been listed as 1947, but instead someone typed 1937 and it slipped past the editors.
I think the reason you might incur stains from rousing the blood for Oblivion powers is the idea that you are essentially tapping into the Abyss, which is something entirely supernatural and apart from humanity. From what I understand about The Abyss, it is the element of anti-life; basically death incarnate. Individuals who tap into that kind of power run the risk of corrupting themselves, possibly beyond repair, into something completely inhuman. Of course, the same can be said for most Disciplines, but the difference with Oblivion is that The Abyss is a separate and sentient being that exists apart from the one utilizing it, with it's own motives. You are letting something else into yourself in exchange for power, and that alone can be enough to make you lose Humanity. Just my two cents on the subject. Great video, very interesting and informative. I'll have to look into getting this book and Cults of the Blood Gods whenever it gets released, if it hasn't already. After all, Lasombra and Hecata are two of my favourite clans, right next to Tremere.
Same idea I got about the humanity and the abyss being is inhumane here and the price of power + yeah the lasombra, hecata, tremere, and assumite are fu**ing awesome, I love the clans that can use magic like abilities, and oblivion is my favorite discipline and after it blood sorcery, then fortitude, auspex, celerity, potence, presence, dominate, and the list goes on.
Surely the core tenets of the campaign will determine what generates stains. Having a single power cause stains makes no sense at all in 5th Generation. Overall the Lasombra in 5th Edition seem to have been pre-hamstrung. Our group has already slightly re-written the bane, as its lethal if you run the inquisition as they're described, and dropped the stain mechanic.
the thing about Lasombra is that they were originally not meant to be played and were designed as perfect enemy NPCs with mechanics to be used by the srotyteller. These Oblivion powers made them incredibly powerful and largely inhumane, much like the Clan of Death that was also low on humanity scale and now have a connection to Abyss as well. The problems begin when someone decides to play the Oblivion-wielding clan be it Lasombra or Hecata - that's when all the flaws of the mechanics come into light - these clans are the first to go the downward spiral both philosophically and mechanically - because the stains, risks and costs of using these powers are so great that it makes no sense to play a Hecata or Lasombra in a non-peer clan coterie - you will be suffering through and through. Oblivion discipline, and let's be honest, it's still a fact, is not meant for a Player Character. And that's a beautiful thing in a way because it still is the most sinister and powerful discipline of all - so anyone willing to mess with it has to pay with blood, innocent lives and more. Those who treat it lightly will be the first to join the corpses.
@@michaelandreyev5029 The Lasombra have been playable as Antitribu or Sabbat since what first edition. In the original Vampire Dark Ages version you could even play them prior to the split. Your group may not have allowed or liked them but they were still valid options GM permitting (everything is actually GM permitting tbh). The argument about Oblivion being so powerful also makes no sense in V5 as powers like Presence are incredibly powerful and in some cases some of the most evil in the game. Theres no way to argue that physically and mentally enslaving someone to where they will do anything for you shouldn't incur stains in the same way. The problem comes in that stains are entirely tenet driven and those tenets vary widely. In a humanity based chronicle I can see the argument but again why is it not by usage? If I use arms of ahriman to save someone in a humanity based campaign and I take a stain but a toreador, malkavian or ventrue draws on their powers to destroy someone's mind or make that person commit murder etc but doesn't suffer the same stint mechanics doesn't then it make a mockery of the tenet system? Quid pro quo... If the tenets included something about exercising power etc .... you really shouldn't get a stain for using any power whatever the source.
@@remmyremarius8889 I guess what I meant by powerful was Oblivion being the most high risk discipline, well, at least in my opinion. I'm curious how you've modified the rules, did you drop stains completely?
Using Oblivion is using something twisted and rather evil.
On first glance Lasombra are Ventrue with Shadow Powers, but they are a more evil Clan, by nature. I like that Stain. It fits.
Please consider doing more videos to help new storytellers understand the new core mechanics with V5; good video review.
Without reading into the review, I am betting that the Lasombra (my favorite clan!) have defected the very sect they created because a) it spiralled out of their control, with the Second Inquisition and the Tzimisce zealotry and whatnot, b) the Sabbat Regent, Lucita de Aragon, once pro-Camarilla, always defended that nominal order needed to be established otherwise the bloodshed could stir up the Antediluvians, and therefore worked to collapse the Sabbat from within, and c) with the Sabbat in the Middle East concentrating their efforts to find the Antediluvians, it is only a matter of time until one or more of them awaken - if they haven’t already.
This been said, I read on!
The book implies that the experience of Lasombra who came back from the Middle-East is one of the main reasons they decided to defect.
GodLikeDevil Which begs the question: what did they experience back in the Middle-East? And an even better question: what about the Tzimisce?
What happened to the "End Times" events including the Tzimisice Founder being a giant fungus under New England?
@@NodDisciple1 You have to ignore the finality of the 3rd edition Gehenna scenarios. There was a soft reboot for the setting. It is a common thought that the Antediluvans are out there, they just haven't revealed themselves.
For Chicago Chronicles, chapter 7, are small plot hooks one can use through the duration of a chronicle. These are some written out scenes to take place that challenge the PCs in a variety of ways. That's why each fall under a different kind of theme. They are just there for you to use if you need inspiration for a scene and situations to throw characters into. They aren't full chronicles no, so the name is a misnomer. I get the feeling but I think they will be useful to use if you need to bring an element into the story that you feel is missing from your PCs usual courses of action.
a alt to the gaining a stain when using Oblivion is if you gain a stain for a "normal" reason while using a Oblivion rouse power you gain +1 stains for that action. using the abbys for evil drains your soul more than just simple acts of evil
Oblivion/Abyss is a corrupting and annihilating element. I liken incurring the stain is because it touches and taints your soul. Basically Oblivion is playing with the same things powering specters and the like, and the same rule applies for Oblivion powers in Cults of the Blood Gods. It is kind of like the corruption mechanic from Call of Cthulhu; Oblivion practitioners tapping into darker powers they were never meant to know.
Don't you think that having only one stain-incurring discipline like that in the ruleset is a bit imbalanced?
@@michaelandreyev5029 Not really. Oblivion has some pretty powerful effects. It has most powers and ceremonies available for any discipline at the moment. Plus thematically it fits. Kindred dabbling with things they should not should have increased risks.
They should have merged Obtenebration with Daimonion, they both deal with the Abyss plus there is the Angellis Ater that are literal Daimonion using Lasombra
Ah, a lovely dose of Josh to start off February!
Please do more Chicago stuff! I'm getting ready to do this chronicle and I really enjoy the insight from someone else who is knowledgable.
Next weekend I'll release a video about a story In Chicago by night!
@@StrangeAdventures Awesome!
6:29 A Lasombra Activist is such a good archetype. I need to use that somehow. I'm trying to get inspiration for a Lasombra character and I don't want them to just be a bully or a power hungry psychopath. Having a cause to defend is great ammo to justify their actions 😁
Imagine the image on cameras getting gradually worse as the Lasombra decays morally.
Any Dorian Grey fans?... Just me?
This was the best coverage of this book out there. Thank you. I will say the before your video - which I just stumbled on my desire to purchase or support the kickstarter was nil. Of all the reviews I have read for the last year this is head and shoulders the best
I love your map, good sir. I don't know if I ever would have tried to ST if not for your videos! May your scones be buttery and your tea taste how ever you prefer it to taste. Mithras blessings!
I agree with this review tremendously: Chicago by Night presents a huge wealth of information on characters to build an unbreathing, unliving city from. But outside of the chapter on the Lasombra, it really lacks a quick, useable component, and the lack of plot threads outside of The Sacrifice are really apparent.
E.g., I loved the Blood Disco subculture (despite my misgivings of using the actual irl vogue subculture in a fantasy setting). It brought a lot of elements of diversity & a lot of love for Paris Is Burning and Pose clearly went into it. But if I wanted to use them as a plot point in a chronicle set in Chicago, I would be making the plot & conflicts from scratch. Of the "chronicles" in Chapter 7, only one even features any characters from the Blood Disco, and the conflict in question is completely unrelated to it.
I want this supplement so bad! I wasn't able to Kickstart it but I did pre-order it from a retailer.
Are you a Lasombra, or a Lasombro?
or a Lasombrx!
Or a Lasombruh?
Lashomo
Could you do another one of these? I'd love to hear you go over the NPCs in the book
.
I generally enjoyed the book but our group had three main areas we felt were weak - a) the lasombra section added nothing new really outside some interesting characters and seemed filled with rules that made no sense at all (e.g. Hecata/Lasombra sharing oblivion, stains for using oblivion etc) or were potentially deadly (e.g. the bane as everyone recognises what you are and the world is totally full of reflective surfaces/electronics); b) the Chicago Chronicles section was pointless and seemed to add nothing; and c) In terms of the characters it felt like a list of character types were written and then the "type" was written up leading to quite a few of the characters being tick box caricatures at best rather than organic characters. On the other hand quite a few of them were great/interesting and could easily fit into a campaign (unlike the bat looking characters sticking around humans or the creature which can create 4th gen equivalent "whatevers").
I can say that Cults of the Blood Gods is no better as it has lengthy cult descriptions and the Hecata taking less volume of the book, let alone the weird Family Reunion concept which is poorly written. The mechanics are more or less ok if you forget about the stain thing, sacrificing innocents and severe blood drainage when using necromantic powers.
Thank you for this, it was a super informative video!!
I'm in the process of creating my first character for VtM, and I'm torn between Ventrue and Lasombra. They both seem to fit a kind of character that is manipulative, power-driven and inherently distrusting due to her line of (criminal) work. What would you say are the most distinguishing features between the two?
PS: Totally subscribed!
Yea they both fit that style of character. The biggest difference between the two is the powers and banes/compulsions. Depends on which you'd rather play with.
I tend to downplay is as a large scale defection of neonates so lasombra have anti tribe in the ivory tower. The clan is still majority sabbat. I also to to re separate obtenerbration. And remove the stupid marks since no one else has to deal with it with their also sinister powers.
This tends sweeten the pill a fair bit.
The Ancap Lasombra was made for me
Alexandr Malenkov, Carolina Valez and Hester Reed... three knowed Lasombra killed by the own clan.
Dude, lasombra are my favorite clan(and the hecata but after this video they are indead the lasombra), aracho-captialists, failure isn't an option, being ruthless and doing anything to fix the failure that you made if you made one, being hyper competitive, that is basically me in real life! no wonder that personality quiz of vampires got me a lasombra, their curse is really interesting, they need to avoid cameras and mirrors, but the technology thing would be horrible if someone was a programer(I am a programer, it's weird but true), anyway oblivion is my favorite discipline(do I have to explain why? it's just cool and awesome) and I don't think it would be hard for a lasombra to necromancy because it's a lower power/path of oblivion than their used to be obtenebration, oblivion is much cooler and powerful than most disciplines, and it would be wild to see a lasombra using the full potential of it! + imagin seeing a lasombra and a ventrue in the same coterie!! imagin them using both their compulsion in each other, one tries to break the will of other to submit and the other tries to force his will forcing something to happen and become ruthless angry and does everything to make it happen and won't submit, that would a sight to be seen! I bet they'll be the competitive two that somewhat/somehow similar but never admit that, and they'll fight all the time, why do these people work togather?!
I'm currently playing a Lasombra in the same coteries as a Lasombra on The Primogen's Chicago Stories Chronicle! And it's very fun to be competitive with her!
@@StrangeAdventures man, that's so cool! + wait a second, what if a lasombra used to be a necromancer sorcerer in life who could easily summon wraithes and raise a lot of zombies, wouldn't that justify it when you make him/her able to use oblivion obteneberation and oblivion necromancy?! maybe he used to have a lot of mages friends who tried to awaken him/her because that person used to be a powerful sorcerer but not actually a mage, and they were disappointed that their friend will never awaken because he/she became a vampire, it would be a nice way to justify it and have mages as NPC who won't kill or throw out your vampires at sight! and I always wanted to try the blood of mages, fae, and demons on vampires! I think the werewolf's blood make vampires go to frenzy if it didn't give them aggrevated damage(vtm redemption).
@@StrangeAdventures I cheated the system! the lasombra used to be a strong sorcerer necromancer before even being embraced! that's how you get both pathes of oblivion + I'd imagin having a bitter hecata who wanted to embrace that child for themselves and they might adopt them after getting their sire out of the way, or just befriend them, get them to work with you, or hell, have a relationship with them now that you couldn't embrace them yourself but they are the child of other vampire so no incest, it wouldn't be a problem to clan giovanni, the clan who came fron sweet home alabama and these things with them are normal.
@@kykisaky7841 i think you actually need a teacher in order to get access to the powers of a different clan...
@@michaelandreyev5029 yeah, for the most part, unless you have diablorized one from that clan or got a tomb for the discipline or it was some kind of inherited power, but again you can have a hecata adopt a lasombra or the other way around.
I just know LA by Night a little, a nice example of how to up an anarch city with plots of both camarilla and sabbat.
I know Berlin by Night very well and recommend it even more. With east and west Berlin unified suddenly, two princes and sets of primogen give so many hooks while Gehenna is approaching.
I'm really torn which elements of each edition to use. Whatever revised is (3rd?), my house rules already make it more different than v5. I think I once looked at v20, but not sure if I borrowed ideas from it or discarded all completely. V5 has some nice ideas, like hunger, but replacing bloodpool is crazy. You'd have at least a dozen kills per vampire per year with that system. I think I am going to introduce hunger mechanic, but just for roleplaying. basically you get a -2 dice pool penalty from something or other constantly, and can dramatically play your character if you like to get rid of it. Or spend (temporary) willpower aka take a willpower damage.
For the lore I'm torn also. I had some similar elements in my Gehenna campaign, but everything became a mess in a different way... Lasombra wouldn't join the camarilla, but the sabbat would split in three and might have truces with certain camarilla regions.
How would the camarilla negotiate, masquerade fine but vaulderie allowed, diablerie no longer banned but restricted and regulated? How do you manage embraces and population control?
I can accept the lore behind the stain when using Oblivion but it really has the feel of a balancing mechanic - I think thats certainly the result, whether intended or not. So my question would be:
Are the Oblivion/Obtenebration abilities really powerful enough to justify such a balancing mechanic?
What do you think, dear reader?
Play Shadows of New York and you see how powerful Oblivion is for the Lasombra representative for the Camarilla.
that google map you mentioned, can't find the link to it here, am i blind, did you forget to link to it, or is it just not done yet? :D
Oh derp, I didn't put it in there yet. I'll do that now
Strange Adventures
Yes?
Say it twice more into a mirror, go on, i dare you!
16:59 What if you are on a Path instead?
i think the idea why oblivion/obtenebration stains your humanity is simply because the source of this power is supposed to be so alien to the human condition that it beckons you into an inhumane existance. whatever that's supposed to be. i've seen worse use of the humanity tracker tbh. but im pretty radical about that subject anyway. or so i'm told.. lol ... i mean WHAT IS HUMANITY?? really ?? if someone can clarify that term for me in a convincing manner, im happy to play by the system.
its a shame that the oblivion (lasombra) powers are that weak. I mean they are balaced like blood sorcery but with the stain penalty + by lore not having acces to spells. they should have gone the paranormal route like demon on the old house
Is it out yet for purchase?
as far as i know its available for pre purchase
Can anyone else hear birds...?
I'll just say: Morte Ascendo
The Lasombra are less Sabbat Ventrue, and more a reflection of another Camarilla clan:
The Tremere
Both Clans are mistrusted by their... so called Allies because of their dangerous and mysterious primary disciplines. Both Clans, despite the claims the Ventrue and Brujah/Tzimisce are the true architects and power behind their sects.
Both are more than willing to play both sides when it suites them.
Both have internal Clan structures that are heavily obfuscated from non Clan Members.
Both have extremely dangerous Blood Rituals, and running into them unprepared is an extremely bad idea, even if you supposedly have a lower Generation than them.
Both are known for their treasonous actions to those outside of the clan, and both practice Diabolary as apart of their Clan Structures.
Both hold onto power with a grasp that makes even other Kindred suspicious.
Both hold internal sects of both Infernalists and Faithful, who war agaisnt the other in their own clans.
The Venture as Lords are the Camarilla version of the Tzimisce. The Lasombra have always felt far more like a true shadow of the Tremere than not (which also makes more sense meta wise since both the Tremere and Lasombra are more VtM original Vampire types, and metawise are the oldest clans)
First: Vivat Lasombra.
Second, with regard to your concern over connections that do not specifically occur within this...that's EXACTLY where the Storyteller comes in. Setting up a meet between both the Cam Gangel and an Anarch over their shared hatred of Lupines is a great chance for a Lasombra to curry favour and build contacts for later.
It's not what's written. Its what's unread between the lines.
100% agree. This is not a book for the faint of heart… but for a ST willing to invest at least a dozen hours in extracting knowledge to make it actually playable content. The Chronicles chapter has very poor fictional intensity and NPC plots and schemes are surprisingly uneventful.
You really should've researched the history of Chicago by Night first. There are so many stories for that setting what lead up to V5. I was really hoping this video was going to cover that, so I was disappointed a bit; however, the rest of the video was pretty good. The Chronicle parts you were complaining about are hold overs from Chicago by Night 1st Edition. These are just story seeds, and you're intended to make Chronicles from them or use them however you like, even if it's for a scene or an entire Chronicle.
I’ve found the 1st Ed “Encounters” to have a lot more flesh about them though. If not always very deep, they’re actual PC predicaments or situations that call for action.
Okey, the Camarilla are the baddy once again. Looking forward to the book balancing this one out by making the Anarchist in a nother city the bad ones ☺
For me I would have wanted the Lasombra in The Anarch faction instead. But thats just me maby 😜
Oooooo look at me being first!😇
Ninja'd right in there. Enjoy!
It's bad criticism to say: You can't understand the entire book, without reading the entire book.
Should be obvious.
I really like Oblivion powers staining their user. If you engage with something antithetical to humanity that should be one of the consequences.
It’s not bad criticism if you consider said book is 350 pages of intricate content without any thematic entry point besides the full NPC list, and the ST might not want to spend all their evenings for 2 weeks to prepare a chronicle ;)
@@Ianl6311 that doesn't change the fact that it's bad criticism.
You can't criticize a book for having to be read.
What you brought up is an entirely different criticism.
@@MarkusJackDijkgraaf It wouldn’t have to be read entirely if chapters had a synthetic summary or recap section, schemas showing the big picture of the political situation, additional city maps for the ST with the main landmarks and clan symbols that actually meant something where they are placed, a succinct timeline of Chicago’s vampiric history, a rumor mill chart about the main city gossip… basically name anything except the walls of text we currently have.
@@Ianl6311 I understand your points and I even agree with them, but those are still different than: You can't understand a book, without reading that book.
@@MarkusJackDijkgraaf it’s because you carefully edited out the word “all” from his quote “this book requires you to read it all”.
Many books don’t require to read them *all*. Do you read a full encyclopedia? A thick travel book cover to cover? Or do you rather jump to the entries you need?
That’s the problem with CbN - not enough threads to pick up and follow. And it’s not a side problem.