Solid content, this is exactly what I wanted, apples to apples seeing the guitars you guys make, hearing how they sound, and seeing what you use, I'm free the draw my own conclusions about what I would wanna do. Thanks toast team!
I'm loving your channel, Matt. This is awesome information. As I am picking up my luthier hobby again, I've been considering transitioning to more modern finishes since polyester is more durable. Let's face it, the primary reason we finish guitars is to protect the wood. The secondary reason is the coloring. Yes, there is a lot of cork sniffing about how great lacquer is. But I am of the firm belief that both Gibson and Fender would have used polyester in their early years if it had been available.
Thanks for watching my friend, you and I agree about Gibson and Fender (especially Fender) would never be using lacquer if they had modern urethane paints
Absolutely correct on the paint being thin no matter what kind of paint. I have a Fender body with poly paint and it's really thin as I can see the Alder wood grain when I tip it at a long angle. I'm as happy with this guitar as my nitro bodies.
It occurs to me that when people think polyester they think of the thick coating that you find on import guitars. I tell people that has more to do with the work force than the product.
Your videos have helped me to start facing how rigidly traditional I am. Some of my beliefs are fundamentally unsound, but they are hard habits to break! If somebody enjoys your song, I believe the majority of them could care less about the “how, when, & where,” of your guitar. I continue to enjoy your videos Matt!
Thanks man. You are right, no one who is coming out to see my band play songs about beer and chicks cares what kind of finish is on my guitar. You know that the stupid titles are more to get people's attention and I really don't care. There are some quantifiable and repeatable advantages to using one type or another... first cool. Then there are those unexplainable things that people just want because they want it... second cool
Great stuff! So glad I found this channel & you guys. I’ve retired from music for a living where I played Bluegrass, so yes there was nothing but acoustics! 32yrs ago I sold my Strat & Peavey Solo Series 600 amp & just now got back into electrics but wanted to build my own. You guys know your shit & I love how you just lay it out there! I’m known as a Dobro player but back in the late. 80’s & early 90’s I was known for playing a pretty mean 6-string Axe! Marriage, 3 sons, 1 grandson & 1 granddaughter & it’s time to get back to the Hard Rock & Heavy Metal of my youth! P.S. Last summer watched Joan Jett, Poison, Motley Crue & Def Leppard! Damn Tommy can beat the absolute shit out of those drums! Felt like I was 18 again watching Ozzy Osbourne with a new “kid”, named Zakk Wylde! May sound strange but being raised in Bluegrass, then gravitating to Hard Rock & Metal as I got older (and worshiping the Devil, or so my mom thought! Satanic Panic! 😆), they are all 3 the same in the fact they focus on the talent of the musician! Not a bunch of damn synths, keyboard effects & all that other shit! Anyways, love the stuff guys & thanks so much!
I’m a beginner. Just about to take the leap this winter in building my first two guitars. I was going to use Nitro, because I did a couple repairs on some older stuff and it was pretty easy to pull off..plus I’m kinda intimidated with the massive amounts of modern products available. You have convinced me to change course. I’m gonna follow the steps in this video. Curious if you ever made a list outlining sanding procedures, products and timeline of said products being sprayed. I’ve watched this video many times, and took notes, but I don’t want to miss any step of the finishing process and screw up months of work being an amateur finish applicator...great videos man. Keep it up. Many of them have inspired me and I learned a shit load of techniques and skills...
Thanks for watching Ian, glad to hear you are enjoying the videos. I don't know if we have ever done a video chronicling all the steps? You know how it goes... some of this stuff you just have to power through and find techniques that work well for you. I think we will be doing another Q&A video maybe we will talk about this kinda thing then.
killer informational video Matt & team ....question: you guys go right to color coats when shooting your guitar bodies, ie: right on top of the Simtec sealer - correct ? .....I always used a primer / surfacer and sand / prep / level that, then go to color coats ..... but I am excited to try the Simtec 28x50 EZ methodology .....
Not too long ago I mixed trans tint into Simtec top coat. My bright blue turned into a mocha color after a few days. Not what I was going for but it actually turned out very cool. But I still needed the blue so I mixed it into several different types of clear and sure enough they all browned out on me after a few days. Eventually I just ordered the proper shit from HOK. Just wasn't having any luck with the trans tint using it that way.
Just a side note: I was personal friends with Wyatt & Tony Rice. I think losing Tony made me want to get back to the 1st instrument I ever learned to play. Don’t get me wrong I love my Vintage D Bourgeois but I need to JAM!
I feel your pain my friend. We were totally opposed to modern paints and switching was really a bitter pill to swallow. Once we did though it was a real game changer. A few years ago at the NAMM show we saw two guitar built by a hot shot luthier from Germany (I forget his name). Anyway, he had two samples of the exact same guitar one with a lacquer finish and one with a urethane finish. If you didn't know what was going on you might wonder why the duller one was way more expensive. At this stage of the game I am convinced that guitar players like to say words about the sonic properties of a finish, or more to the point, or tone woods but most of them want it to be shinny too.
@@TexasToastGuitars I'm a big fan of your videos and I'm a guitar player and gear nerd from Germany ;) if you have a few hints, I might know who you're talking about. The most "hot shot" luthiers that came to international reputation are probably Nik Huber or Oliver Baron (Helliver Guitars). But there are many great luthiers at this side of the big pond. Anyway, keep up the good work guys! And sorry for my comment under a 2 year old video ;)
Been digging the vids, and I appreciate this one as well. Yup, I've subscribed 👍. I agree about the noise re: nitro vs poly. If it's shot well you're not going to hear a difference. Any difference one hears has a lot of variables attached to it (age of finish, wear on instrument, etc.). Personally, I discovered hand-rubbed finishes (tung oil & shellac), lightly applied, and I've really enjoyed the results sonically & visually. I'd love to know your thoughts. Maybe you could do I video?
Hi Bill, you are right if you have a lousy guitar it really won't matter what kind of paint is on it. I love oil and wax finishes and if I could sell them I would do them all that way. I like the Sam Maloof brand. It is something we don't do a lot of these days because we are all set up to spray. That would be a good video.
I'm a PPG distributor. MC270 is good, but check out MC161 and see if you like how it sprays better. It's a tad more expensive but is a high solids, very durable topcoat comparable to DCU2021 or some of those other very expensive Deltron clears. Also, what you said about Omni basecoats is spot on, some colors are great and cover well, but when buying small amounts like 4oz or 8oz, might as well go with the more expensive Deltron basecoats.
Thank you so much for making this series! Super informative and really helps! I actually started finishing guitars just recently (built a few and had oil finishes before)... I am really struggling which a question and would appreciate your advice ... I live in Israel and we're quite limited on finising materials here (I don't actually think they have polyaster finishes here for example). I know some of the luthiers aound me are using two-component acrylic lacquer, how does it compare in your opinion to the OMNI product in terms of clear coat and cure time?
Hi Gill We have since stopped using the PPG brand paints but continue to use modern urethane paints I'm not sure what you have access to in Israel but there must be something
@@TexasToastGuitars Thank you, so nothing here other than urethane lacquest which as really low solid content... I went for the alternative, automotive paint as base coat and Brite Tone as top coat.
I need to touch up some nitro laquer....any suggestions? I could use laquer but want to know the options. Got some super glue on a neck when gluing down frets.....had to sand a small spot.
Cheap automotive painting systems are a great suggestion! I've used that stuff on cars and it'll look great for about 5-7 years. On a guitar, it'll probably look good well after you're dead.
For me that i like natural finishes is thin superglue....you can go from total unsealed wood to a fully buffed finish in a couple of days( or hours if you are in a hurry)....rock hard finish that looks and feels pretty damn great.
@@TexasToastGuitars Nope i have already a couple of guitar finished that way...other parts of them like the back of the neck or the fingerboard..or the whole guitar.For a guy like me that doesnt like finishing at all its the best way to do it.
Disney gold... oo my I'm a Disney stock holder and believe me they pick colors for a reason. Mostly to help you decide to spend more money while there.
Sure I can argue about what chemical compounds are best to plastic coat guitars. Nitrocellulose and its patina are truly for the connoisseur of expeditiously seeking product failure to look cool. Don’t get me wrong. I like that funky old look that dates an instrument or piece of woodwork. It’s my favored decor. But much if it is the relatively premature failure if any of it was intended to last decades let alone centuries. So here we are with a variety of more advanced polymers that perform better, last longer and might be overall safer. Even if that’s just in understanding potential exposure because the knowledge of chemistry is better. I have different point of view as I’m in 2022 better things available. I’ll look stupid in the future using shit that didn’t hold up. Sign me up for the most advanced space age polymers you got. I want a guitar that survives global cataclysms and in 12022 it’s pulled from my time capsule found in an archeological dig under ancient rubble. They be like… What is it? I don’t know but it’s in immaculate condition… it says panty dropper 3000 by the metallic bar thingys and there are knobs. Obviously some form of advanced ancient technology. It might be related to the stainless steel fragment that said big muff pi. Maybe the connection is circular geometry and some kind of galactic user interface that relied on magnetic detection of vibrational activity transformed to auditory electrical impulses. Ah ha ha that’s funny Bob. You are a card. Undoubtedly a precious artifact though, let’s get it shipped back to the institute for carbon dating. What was found with it? Just some fossilized sapiens remains. You’re standing on them. Crunch crunch Oh… okay well try to get those sifted out of anything important and throw them on the pile. Yes sir Dr. Zaius sir. You heard him. Clean up the crap and keep your eye peeled for good stuff! Get to work! Lol
I'm 64 years of age and worked for The Petty race team for 2 seasons in my early career and Lacquer was it back then. Dried fast could be polished and repaired easily. I was a PPG certified refinish technician when I moved on to "road car" repair. During that period lacquer began to fade in use. Catalyzed materials took over. For the last 15 years before I retired I worked as a Aviation composite technician working with carbon laminates and Mil Spec coatings. I have used pretty much everything and I agree very much with with your get over it and move on point of view. Catalyzed materials rule the day and they are also dangerous. I had to retire early because I got sensitized to any exposure. Yes I used protective equipment but this stuff is powerfull and people react to it even small amounts that may still be in the mix area or fumes venting as something is curing. Got to be careful! I think we are at the time the next generation of coatings will soon take over and that seems to be UV activated. Hit it with light and bam its cured. Dentists have been fixing your teeth with it for years. Its used in manufacturing and is now getting out to the public. While I have not used it I do plan to!
First... 😆 I never used lacquer. And as an amateur i'm not afraid to say, i use spray cans with very good results. Today i sprayed a Jaguar neck and it will come out great after buffing. Keep on rolling old man 👍
You got to use what works for you. I think it's cool that people make guitars and use whatever they want. If I had my way everything would have an oil finish and people would love it. I did that for a few years and the market reaction was less than stellar hahaha
I was going to ask about your opinion of Minwax Wipe On Poly (polyurethane), Tung Oil or Tru Oil. I've been considering those as finishes, as well. A lot easier to deal with because I wouldn't have to break out the compressor and clean everything afterwards. But it sounds like you're saying there is no market for satin finishes. Is that correct? I've also thought about putting them just on the back of the neck to improve the feel.
I think there is a great market for oil finish or satin finish necks but not necessarily bodies. Of course, I should not be considered a divining rod for popularity hahaha I like the Sam Maloof oil and wax finishes
Thank you Matt. Very informative for someone trying to go from part time hobby to something a bit more pro. Um...that would be me (not building any "replicas", so it's all good to know). All of my painting knowledge comes from Automotive (and old school, at that...pre 80s), so this helps and makes a lot of sense.
Hi Bob, The replica guys have it down to science and if you are doing that you have to go all in. Pre 1980's... what was the hot set-up then? Thanks for watching brotherman
We don't need any more "replica" Electric Guitar makers in the Detroit area; we have Wallace and a couple others, so customers have too many to choose from, already. I'll let them fight with the lacquers :). As far as what the hot setup was: My Dad's old Montgomery Wards stand up air compressor, DeVilbis spray guns and, yes, good old DuPont Nitrocellulose Lacquer. My Dad taught me how to paint, and we were painting cars from the 50s-70s eras. The GMs had Lacquer, and the Fords had some Enamels after the 50s. SO MUCH SANDING and so many coats were applied (sometimes up to 30) just for a nice shine and feathering in all the divits. And painting on a humid day?...forget it! DuPont thinners were great and all, but orange peel was not sexy! AND checking and peeling weren't so sexy after the clear coat had been exposed for many years. Metal is definitely not the same as wood by any means! My Dad is very pleased I am considering getting into spraying again, he's just not up on the new "tech" available, and has a bit of hate for what he calls "plastic paint" on cars. He is right, though. Repairs on the new cars are a nightmare compared to the old days. Sometimes I wish I had also hung around the local Table and Countertop shop just down the street, where the guys used to spray furniture, but instead I decided to work at a guitar shop...so I guess I learned all the tricks for a lot of things there, but we always sent our paint jobs out to a local furniture maker...(gosh I feel old, now. NONE of those places are in business anymore, the last being the DuPont store). AHH, yes...the DuPont store my Dad got the "in" with, somehow. That place was amazing to me. The guys would let lil' ol 12 year old me mix paints by the magic spells in the "giant DuPont Magic Book"! and the guys working there smoking by the paint..OMG were people dumb back then...ahahahaha. oh, sorry about writing a book, there. Just some great memories. BUT..now is now..onward and forward. Matt, I never miss an episode. You, Jon Sullivan (kind of MIA for awhile with his new factory line) and Ben Crowe are my 3 top Luthiers on CZcams. all 3 of you in the last 10 minutes have forgotten more about making great guitars than I may ever know (and Grover Jackson and Dan Erlewine have us all beat...lol). Say, I used to see Dan at Herb David's Guitar Shop in Ann Arbor (now closed, also) all the time back in the 70s-80s. He was always so cool and always knew how to fix anything. By the time I moved there in the 90s, he had gone on to his own shop in Ohio. I am getting so old (sigh). My main point was, if it's Texas Toast Guitars, I am THERE, baby! Sure wish I lived closer...you'd have a Klingon at the shop every day...
I doubt it. Purpleheart is just going to turn brownish after a while. There's a wood site that has some tips on keeping the colors, but it says that it just turns color over time, and they specifically mentioned purpleheart.
Robert Graf yeah I’ve also seen that. I wonder if the effect is mostly caused by UV or oxygen exposure or otherwise. I don’t recall seeing much info on it in terms of intentionally applying a UV blocker though
Is there any advantage to baking the paint after application? Auto finishes are often left under heat lamps to add durability - is this process necessary over wood base?.
We have sprayed a variety of paint bases for the last 45 years (for signs) and lacquer really sucks on a guitar. It never cures for one thing. I have reactivated lacquer finishes (on Gibsons… yes plural, more than once) while playing for 12 hours in a day and it actually got soft and gummy! Can you please tell me what size nozzle/needle are you using for Simtec and same question for Deletion or Omni? Thanx
I hear ya, it's a silly thing to use but stories are easier to believe than facts sometimes. We use the largest nozzle we can find for Simtec I think we have a 2.2 right now. All the base colors are sprayed with Devilbiss Finishline guns and top coat is sprayed with am Iwata lph400.
For me, I feel like my hand slides easier on acrylic lacquer. Body finish doesn't matter so much. The reason I think is that Urethane is a type of hard rubber and tends to not slide against skin as well. I you ever feel like you need to steel-wool a neck or use talc that's probably what's going on. You've probably got a poly finish.
The poly that has a bad name for guitars is polyurethane, not polyester. Polyurethane is a real pain to strip. Even the methylene chloride strippers (the nasty stuff you can feel when you get even a tiny droplet on you) will only craxe the finish, and you'll have to sand it off. It can also get gummy after a while under certain conditions. I've heard the PRS uses polyester finishes, but I'm not certain.
@@TexasToastGuitars I think that is recent, however. There are now environmental issues that have made lacquers more difficult to deal with as far as regulatory issues. I don't think there any polyester finishes available back in the 60s. Also, the Polyesters are not solvent based, as far as I know. Have you ever tried removing one? Are there any chemical strippers?
Poly , as you say just means "Many" and in organic chemistry terms, means a polymer. Which is a bunch of monomers, or small individual molecules of many types, which can be chemically bonded to each other. Two monomers make a dimer (2 of them!), 3 make a trimer, and MANY make a polymer. So PVC is Poly Vinyl Chloride. PTFE is Poly Tetra Fluor Ethylene. So yes. you are absolutely right. The term "Poly", on it's own actually means nothing, except that you have (usually) a chain of smaller molecules joined chemically together. It's the way the chains join up and react to each other that gives the polymer its particular characteristics. Here endeth the lesson!
PS. my finishing experience is limited to a few bodies and necks, mostly finished with Danish oil. I like it, I understand how to use it, and i like the look of what it does to woods. I actually like the open grained finish on mahogany, as well as what it does to the colour of that and sapele. And have got some nice semi-gloss finish on maple tops. Yes, its not that durable, but easy to touch up and repair. But enjoying your info on "proper" finishes. Great series of videos.
Thanks for watching Tim. I like oil finishes a lot as well but in our neck of the woods they aren't very marketable. In an odd twist of events once we got all set up to spray hard finishes we discovered it was actually easier to do satin finish necks rather than oil. The prototype Daily Drivers had oil and wax necks but the new ones have hard finish. Getting a decent finish, no matter what you use, is really one of the hardest parts... I would say the second hardest part. Marketing and selling guitars is the new hardest part. I have guys who tell me about all the guitars they could make and plans to take over the world... become the next PRS etc. I remember what it was like to be young so I get it but like Joe from Heritage told me once "...the last thing the world needs is another guitar company."
"...the last thing the world needs is another guitar company." OUCH!!😃. Makes me wonder what a future documentary on guitars from this era, might have to say.
@@TexasToastGuitars I know you guys don't do drums, but I'd sure like to see you give it a go even if it was just one single drum. You can find loads of "how to paint your drums" videos but very few of them are good resources. I've discerned a few hints here and there from DW and Gretsch videos, but not until now have all the pieces fallen into place. Simtech Polyster sealer was the key.
We had an explosion proof fan for a while and it was okay but really noisy. now we use a variable speed exhaust fan and a filter bank. I think it came from Tractor Supply. Don't forget your intake air
I did exactly that, converted a tuff shed. I thought I was going to be shooting lacquer- am rethinking that now- but so I put an explosion proof fan in. The cheapest I could find was made by Jenny, and it was still around $600, just before a price increase. EP fans can be a lot more than that. I made a sliding interior door with a wire frame that holds air filters, regular air-conditioning filters. I can open the outer door all the way and slide this door in place and have filtered intake air. There is a formula for calculating the area you need for your intake air for the size and power of your fan and the size of your booth. Jenny will calculate that for you. The floor of the shed was dirty from storing lawn mowers etc in there, so when I converted the shed I sanded the floor and painted it with deck paint so that I can now not only vacuum in there, but I can wet mop in there before shooting as an extra anti-dust measure. Of course I then had to also build a new shed to house the yard tools. Remind me to never do that again in South Texas in August.
I think I got an email from you James, sorry I haven't gotten back to you yet... I will but time is in short supply. I'm trying to catch up and communications & media stuff today.
Late to the party, but...Matt I think I heard you say that if you are going to use a more natural wood color (ie not using paint), we still need to use a sealer, dumb question on my part, how do wood dyes or oils work with sealers, I can’t afford the paint guns or paints so going more natural old school wood lol, thanks man.
All products will work differently with the other brands, the best way to know for sure is do some test pieces. It isn't exciting but it is the right thing to do :)
Matt, so being the total nerd that I am, I pulled up the spec sheets of al the stuff you talked about. Why are you using a polyester sanding sealer and polyurethane finishes over it? Is that what the crusty old guy at PPG suggested? :) Do they not make a polyurethane sanding sealer that might be easier to strip if us hobby builders sanded through our sealer coats? Just wondering why you went with polyester as the sealer when it can be so difficult to work with.
Hi GosselinCreative, I am a little confused... are you recommending that I use a sanding sealer that is easy for people to remove? I am happy to build guitars with no finish and save prospective clients the hassle of getting rid of all the paint. As far as the crusty old guy at PPG... no, a different crusty old guy recommended the Simtec sealer. He does custom airbrush & finish work for companies like Jackson, BC RIch, and DAngelico and he was the one who hipped us to that product. We love using it and have no plans to switch. If you do sand through your sealer coat (we do it all the time) you can just re-apply. I think you will find that it is very easy to work with and forgiving as well. We are a bunch of savages and even we can get it to work.
Matt, no, I'm not recommending anything. I'm an idiot when it comes to these new finishes.I'm currently a hobby builder, and, thus, prone to mistakes. I have been reading from other posters about the indestructibility of polyester, which immediately makes me wonder if I screw up and sand through, how hard is it going to be to fix my mistake. Hence, if I need a do-over, easy stripability (is that a word?) would be for me, the maker, not the user. From your reply, it sounds like Simtec works a lot like the lacquer-based sealer and is not as difficult to deal with as I imagined. You just reapply as soon as you sand through. Thank you for sharing your knowledge. My questions were simply questions. There is no holier-than-thou attitude behind them. I'm a babe in the woods when it comes to modern finishes.
Simple misunderstanding, the polyester is very durable and it can go on super thick and be a pain to get it off of import guitars if you want to take it down to bare wood. I think that the way import guitars are finished is more of an indictment of the work force's skill level than the products used. It's a big factory and I'd bet on of the first jobs people do is sand polyester sealer. If you are interested in giving it a try I think you will be surprised just how straight forward it is to deal with. Now... it's crazy sticky and we always suit up before breaking the stuff out. I see lots of people watching these finish videos and I've got more coming. Stick around
I was told that real Nitrocellulose hasn't been used in years. It's dangerous stuff, really flammable. I sure don't want a paint job that's going to check.
Hi Fred, It is true that the stuff being sold today branded as nitrocellulose lacquer... say like at the Sherwin Williams store is not the same stuff that guitar companies used in the 50's. The percentage of celluloid is less. I have been told that companies have to pay a lot of money to use the higher percentage stuff but I don't have any evidence to back that up. It is really flammable! Small companies that claim to use it. clearly, are not visited by the fire marshal.
" " i'm quoting the gesture you used after you said "you gotta use nitro to make the best guitar". Next time, include the discharge after the initial shake. Think of it like shaking dice and then throwing them on the craps table. If you want to be real cleaver and secret, blow on the dice to dazzle them.
Btw. i had a 36 year old Hoyer acoustic Macaferri gipsy style guitar. It had those nitro lacquer cracks all over and i tell you, i hated it. Even if they say it's vintage and it has to be this way, i hated it. Looked like spider webs all over. Well it's sold now and it doesn't bother my eyes anymore.
I can dig the way lacquer checks but I have a weird thing about buying a guitar with finish damage. If I owned it when it got checked that would be okay... like I said strange hangup for me
technically i use lacquer, i use a mix of shellac and copal resins, i'm really not into modern finishes, i've tried them all and it's just not my thing in terms of look and feel, and let's be honnest, the fragile part of shellac is what i'm looking for, i want natural patina in my projects! That being said, never ever will i use nitro lacquer, that stuff is just too damn dangerous to use in my very small shop, i don't have a booth, i don't have a wall of extractors , i don't have filters, and in my country, IF you can find nitro, it will cost way too much for me to even consider using it.
Great video Matt, I can't stand nitro it's so bad for your health on top of all of it's finish flaws. I've been really digging your recent videos you've been putting out some really good stuff.
Polyester ? I don't know Matt I don't like disco. I do like disco balls but that was just that one Travolta movie. I was also snorting nitro off of a cork so maybe not my best judgement lol
I ´m using Nitro and Poly finishes since 1999, I love nitro, despite the pros and cons compared with polys, I like the polys for hard use guitars finishes but, I always hated the "Chinese Look" of it, no matter how thin you spray, the poly will always look chinese for me.
I dunno what history you have WRT to refinishing instruments from other companies - but Sammick uses something that makes Fullerplast look like sanding sealer. JFC I've had bodies that would literally 1/4" thinner after removing whatever it is they encase those bastards in.....
Knuckle Head... :) We don't do any repairs or refinishing these days. I know that the stuff they use on those imported guitars is pretty heavy duty. Have a great weekend amigo
Lets start the rumor Polyester is a "tone" plastic... If we repeat it often enough it becomes true and accepted vintage knowledge. Even if its total BS. That is how fake news works or how they want it to work.. Think what we want you to think ... buy what we tell you to buy and vote how we tell you to. Sort of how Guitar finishes have been stuck on Nitro...
We are working on a new blog about how people tap on woods by holding it away from their bodies to let it ring out. Of course, when I play I suffocate my guitar up in 200 pounds of person meat... that's got to be good for the tone
See... I have been trying to tell everyone that since I lived in Munich Germany for several years, right when I was in my 20's and had just started developing my beer gut, and since I've continued my love of well crafted German lagers and pilsners, my belly fat is properly conditioned, "Tone Fat." Whenever I hunker down over an otherwise mediocre guitar, my tone fat resonates in just such a way... it's really indescribable. And if I take my shirt off for maximum tone-fat to contact ratio... I've seen audiences have to literally leave because it was too awesome for them to withstand. I have Japanese scientists from Kobe Japan that come to my shows just to... Okay... I've run this into the ground. Awesome videos man! ;-)
Most people do not realise that LACQUER is NOT ACRYLIC and ACRYLIC IS NOT LACQUER!! Not the same but two separate animals altogether. Lacquer was invented in 1923 by the Plasti-kote Corporation. Despite the name and the connotations that people get from it plastic was not a product but a process. Anything that could go from being a liquid to a solid was considered plastic. At that time acrylic had yet to be invented by almost 21 years!! Acrylic paints were called enamel lacquers and everyone knows that the two are not only NOT the same thing but are totally incompatible. This was from the DuPont family and they made paints. Acrylic is inorganic compounds and lacquer is made from nitrocellulose tree gum spirits. So much for being lacquer! How they considered lacquer and acrylic or even enamel the same thing is anyones' guess! Lacquer is a product and not a generic term. They should've known better being a chemical company. Much like in Marijuanada (formerly the country known as Canada) everything there is called varnish even when it isn't!! But either way LACQUER STILL SUCKS!! I hate it and I hate all the snobbery surrounding it since the advent of using polyester on guitars in the 70s. All the Fender snobs shunned because it was something different and not knowing or understanding what it even was without realising that it is much better suited as a true durable industrial finish! Thank you for being wise enough to know that all this lacquer worship is bullshit. And the jack-off motion is so well deserved by all the snobs as this is how I feel about it too. It is apparent that you understand the properties of paint and how it reacts and how it is properly used.
They don't allow OMNI MC270 in the state of California. After watching this video, I was ready to purchase this product - I even called PPG and the nice person I spoke with revealed that, although they are able to distribute SOME of their products in CA, sadly the environmental fascists won't allow the 270 here in this bullshit state. Fuck the environment. I hate California. I've never even been to Texas, but I fantasize about moving there. I might even consider it, except I don't want to add to the influx of California douchebags currently overrunning your great state. Thanks for all of the fun and informative videos, not to mention all of your glorious guitars. I have learned SO MUCH from your channel. You guys are awesome!!!
We have stopped using Omni 270 and have switched to Tamco paints. I'm not sure if they are allowed either but you might see what else is out there for automotive finishes
People using the term "poly" really piss me off, too! I always ask them if it's polyurethane or Polyester and they don't have a clue. Two totally different animals altogether. They've read it on a forum as "poly" posted by another person that doesn't know the difference, either. Worse, when someone gives them advice on how to strip a "poly" finish off of a guitar, without asking what exactly the finish is made from. I laugh my ass off when someone tells them to use paint stripper, considering that if it's Polyester, it ain't coming off unless you break it off or sand it off (still breaking it technically)
Oh, you can strip it. I have. You just have to use the right kind of stripper. You have to use aircraft paint remover. It's nasty stuff. Gotta use gloves because it's even more caustic than regular stripper.
Aircraft stripper will NOT remove Polyester, it will however remove polyurethane. If you took it off with aircraft stripper, it was more than likely catalyzed polyurethane and not Polyester. When I was first starting out, I used aircraft stripper on Polyester not knowing the properties of it, didn't touch it. Years later, I was talking to the guy who formulated Duratec... that's the stuff Fender uses now instead of Fullerplast and he explained to me why aircraft stripper doesn't work on it. It's because it's Polyester resin... it also has acetone as a thinner, styrene monomer, cobalt and carnauba wax, but it's mostly resin.
Solid content, this is exactly what I wanted, apples to apples seeing the guitars you guys make, hearing how they sound, and seeing what you use, I'm free the draw my own conclusions about what I would wanna do. Thanks toast team!
Thanks my friend
I'm loving your channel, Matt. This is awesome information. As I am picking up my luthier hobby again, I've been considering transitioning to more modern finishes since polyester is more durable. Let's face it, the primary reason we finish guitars is to protect the wood. The secondary reason is the coloring. Yes, there is a lot of cork sniffing about how great lacquer is. But I am of the firm belief that both Gibson and Fender would have used polyester in their early years if it had been available.
Thanks for watching my friend, you and I agree about Gibson and Fender (especially Fender) would never be using lacquer if they had modern urethane paints
I took your advice and been using the simtec,I love it,
Right on, glad to hear it is working out for you
Absolutely correct on the paint being thin no matter what kind of paint. I have a Fender body with poly paint and it's really thin as I can see the Alder wood grain when I tip it at a long angle. I'm as happy with this guitar as my nitro bodies.
It occurs to me that when people think polyester they think of the thick coating that you find on import guitars. I tell people that has more to do with the work force than the product.
Your videos have helped me to start facing how rigidly traditional I am. Some of my beliefs are fundamentally unsound, but they are hard habits to break! If somebody enjoys your song, I believe the majority of them could care less about the “how, when, & where,” of your guitar. I continue to enjoy your videos Matt!
Thanks man. You are right, no one who is coming out to see my band play songs about beer and chicks cares what kind of finish is on my guitar. You know that the stupid titles are more to get people's attention and I really don't care. There are some quantifiable and repeatable advantages to using one type or another... first cool. Then there are those unexplainable things that people just want because they want it... second cool
Great stuff! So glad I found this channel & you guys. I’ve retired from music for a living where I played Bluegrass, so yes there was nothing but acoustics! 32yrs ago I sold my Strat & Peavey Solo Series 600 amp & just now got back into electrics but wanted to build my own. You guys know your shit & I love how you just lay it out there! I’m known as a Dobro player but back in the late. 80’s & early 90’s I was known for playing a pretty mean 6-string Axe! Marriage, 3 sons, 1 grandson & 1 granddaughter & it’s time to get back to the Hard Rock & Heavy Metal of my youth! P.S. Last summer watched Joan Jett, Poison, Motley Crue & Def Leppard! Damn Tommy can beat the absolute shit out of those drums! Felt like I was 18 again watching Ozzy Osbourne with a new “kid”, named Zakk Wylde! May sound strange but being raised in Bluegrass, then gravitating to Hard Rock & Metal as I got older (and worshiping the Devil, or so my mom thought! Satanic Panic! 😆), they are all 3 the same in the fact they focus on the talent of the musician! Not a bunch of damn synths, keyboard effects & all that other shit! Anyways, love the stuff guys & thanks so much!
Thanks for the great paint info.
Thanks for watching goodguystu glad to hear you enjoyed the video
love that info thank you for the tips.
Glad it was helpful brotherman
As always Matt, I learned something new! Thanks!👍😎🎸🎶
I hope it was that I am a lousy camera man and my videos are too long hahaha Thanks as always my friend
Texas Toast Guitars lol....always learn something.
I’m a beginner. Just about to take the leap this winter in building my first two guitars. I was going to use Nitro, because I did a couple repairs on some older stuff and it was pretty easy to pull off..plus I’m kinda intimidated with the massive amounts of modern products available. You have convinced me to change course. I’m gonna follow the steps in this video. Curious if you ever made a list outlining sanding procedures, products and timeline of said products being sprayed. I’ve watched this video many times, and took notes, but I don’t want to miss any step of the finishing process and screw up months of work being an amateur finish applicator...great videos man. Keep it up. Many of them have inspired me and I learned a shit load of techniques and skills...
Thanks for watching Ian, glad to hear you are enjoying the videos. I don't know if we have ever done a video chronicling all the steps? You know how it goes... some of this stuff you just have to power through and find techniques that work well for you. I think we will be doing another Q&A video maybe we will talk about this kinda thing then.
Look at using Truoil on the neck, there are a bunch of CZcams videos on this. Truoil makes necks feel amazing!
killer informational video Matt & team ....question: you guys go right to color coats when shooting your guitar bodies, ie: right on top of the Simtec sealer - correct ? .....I always used a primer / surfacer and sand / prep / level that, then go to color coats ..... but I am excited to try the Simtec 28x50 EZ methodology .....
Not too long ago I mixed trans tint into Simtec top coat. My bright blue turned into a mocha color after a few days. Not what I was going for but it actually turned out very cool. But I still needed the blue so I mixed it into several different types of clear and sure enough they all browned out on me after a few days. Eventually I just ordered the proper shit from HOK. Just wasn't having any luck with the trans tint using it that way.
We have had trouble with blue as well, it can turn grey pretty easy
Just a side note: I was personal friends with Wyatt & Tony Rice. I think losing Tony made me want to get back to the 1st instrument I ever learned to play. Don’t get me wrong I love my Vintage D Bourgeois but I need to JAM!
Once again Mat you come up with the best video on the mysterious voodoo of guitar finishes. All I need to do now is get out of my nitro comfort zone.
I feel your pain my friend. We were totally opposed to modern paints and switching was really a bitter pill to swallow. Once we did though it was a real game changer. A few years ago at the NAMM show we saw two guitar built by a hot shot luthier from Germany (I forget his name). Anyway, he had two samples of the exact same guitar one with a lacquer finish and one with a urethane finish. If you didn't know what was going on you might wonder why the duller one was way more expensive.
At this stage of the game I am convinced that guitar players like to say words about the sonic properties of a finish, or more to the point, or tone woods but most of them want it to be shinny too.
I live in Australia's humid sub-tropics where spraying nitro is at times, a nightmare. I *really* have to take your lead on this with my next build.
@@TexasToastGuitars I'm a big fan of your videos and I'm a guitar player and gear nerd from Germany ;) if you have a few hints, I might know who you're talking about. The most "hot shot" luthiers that came to international reputation are probably Nik Huber or Oliver Baron (Helliver Guitars). But there are many great luthiers at this side of the big pond.
Anyway, keep up the good work guys!
And sorry for my comment under a 2 year old video ;)
Been digging the vids, and I appreciate this one as well. Yup, I've subscribed 👍. I agree about the noise re: nitro vs poly. If it's shot well you're not going to hear a difference. Any difference one hears has a lot of variables attached to it (age of finish, wear on instrument, etc.). Personally, I discovered hand-rubbed finishes (tung oil & shellac), lightly applied, and I've really enjoyed the results sonically & visually. I'd love to know your thoughts. Maybe you could do I video?
Hi Bill, you are right if you have a lousy guitar it really won't matter what kind of paint is on it. I love oil and wax finishes and if I could sell them I would do them all that way. I like the Sam Maloof brand. It is something we don't do a lot of these days because we are all set up to spray. That would be a good video.
I'm a PPG distributor. MC270 is good, but check out MC161 and see if you like how it sprays better. It's a tad more expensive but is a high solids, very durable topcoat comparable to DCU2021 or some of those other very expensive Deltron clears. Also, what you said about Omni basecoats is spot on, some colors are great and cover well, but when buying small amounts like 4oz or 8oz, might as well go with the more expensive Deltron basecoats.
We stopped using PPG products altogether
Sorry
Always killer content.
Thanks for watching JFG
Nason is a great budget friendly paint system. And you can use DuPont clear over it.
I'll check it out
great info , i had no idea that you could tint DBC500 like that
Another innovation we got from Mike Learn... he pretty much knows everything and we just copy it and put it on CZcams. Thanks for watching Craig
Matt, another great informative video. Have you ever had to do a repair? How is that. Go have a beer.
Hi Paul, thanks for watching. Chris has done some repair work with the modern paints... maybe he will chime in here
Great series on modern finishes . Now need a vid on a diy spray booth🤔🤔 so we can spray this stuff without pissing of the neighbor
Oh that sounds like, at least, two videos worth. Dealing with the neighbors when you have a spray booth at the house can be tricky
Results do the talking. Beautiful guitars. 👍 😎
Thank you kindly!
BIB BIB THUMBS UP. I am a car painter doing my first guitar and anyone that disagrees with you is a fool. Great Video
HAHAHA thanks Gary. When we switched to modern paints it was like night and day
Thank you so much for making this series! Super informative and really helps!
I actually started finishing guitars just recently (built a few and had oil finishes before)... I am really struggling which a question and would appreciate your advice ... I live in Israel and we're quite limited on finising materials here (I don't actually think they have polyaster finishes here for example). I know some of the luthiers aound me are using two-component acrylic lacquer, how does it compare in your opinion to the OMNI product in terms of clear coat and cure time?
Hi Gill
We have since stopped using the PPG brand paints but continue to use modern urethane paints
I'm not sure what you have access to in Israel but there must be something
@@TexasToastGuitars Thank you, so nothing here other than urethane lacquest which as really low solid content... I went for the alternative, automotive paint as base coat and Brite Tone as top coat.
respect 1:42
I like this dude. Typical texan, shoot from the hip and dont give a flap what the rest are saying. Im subbing. Keep it real toaster!!!
Thanks for watching Zappa, glad to hear you are enjoying the videos.
I need to touch up some nitro laquer....any suggestions? I could use laquer but want to know the options.
Got some super glue on a neck when gluing down frets.....had to sand a small spot.
One of the nice things about a lacquer finish is how easy it is to touch up with more lacquer
Cheap automotive painting systems are a great suggestion! I've used that stuff on cars and it'll look great for about 5-7 years. On a guitar, it'll probably look good well after you're dead.
That is the idea... though I wouldn't call the paints we use these days cheap
For me that i like natural finishes is thin superglue....you can go from total unsealed wood to a fully buffed finish in a couple of days( or hours if you are in a hurry)....rock hard finish that looks and feels pretty damn great.
Did you ask about using CA glue as a finish during the last podcast?
@@TexasToastGuitars Nope i have already a couple of guitar finished that way...other parts of them like the back of the neck or the fingerboard..or the whole guitar.For a guy like me that doesnt like finishing at all its the best way to do it.
CA glue is very similar to automotive clear chemicslly.
Can’t find Simtec for sale in Uk any other suggestions I want to do a fabric top
Hi Mark, I have never used any other products you are in uncharted territory for me. Good luck my friend
Disney gold... oo my I'm a Disney stock holder and believe me they pick colors for a reason. Mostly to help you decide to spend more money while there.
Nice, Mrs. Texas Toast picked that one
Sure I can argue about what chemical compounds are best to plastic coat guitars. Nitrocellulose and its patina are truly for the connoisseur of expeditiously seeking product failure to look cool.
Don’t get me wrong. I like that funky old look that dates an instrument or piece of woodwork. It’s my favored decor. But much if it is the relatively premature failure if any of it was intended to last decades let alone centuries.
So here we are with a variety of more advanced polymers that perform better, last longer and might be overall safer. Even if that’s just in understanding potential exposure because the knowledge of chemistry is better. I have different point of view as I’m in 2022 better things available. I’ll look stupid in the future using shit that didn’t hold up.
Sign me up for the most advanced space age polymers you got. I want a guitar that survives global cataclysms and in 12022 it’s pulled from my time capsule found in an archeological dig under ancient rubble. They be like… What is it? I don’t know but it’s in immaculate condition… it says panty dropper 3000 by the metallic bar thingys and there are knobs. Obviously some form of advanced ancient technology. It might be related to the stainless steel fragment that said big muff pi. Maybe the connection is circular geometry and some kind of galactic user interface that relied on magnetic detection of vibrational activity transformed to auditory electrical impulses. Ah ha ha that’s funny Bob. You are a card. Undoubtedly a precious artifact though, let’s get it shipped back to the institute for carbon dating. What was found with it? Just some fossilized sapiens remains. You’re standing on them. Crunch crunch Oh… okay well try to get those sifted out of anything important and throw them on the pile. Yes sir Dr. Zaius sir. You heard him. Clean up the crap and keep your eye peeled for good stuff! Get to work! Lol
I'm 64 years of age and worked for The Petty race team for 2 seasons in my early career and Lacquer was it back then. Dried fast could be polished and repaired easily. I was a PPG certified refinish technician when I moved on to "road car" repair. During that period lacquer began to fade in use. Catalyzed materials took over. For the last 15 years before I retired I worked as a Aviation composite technician working with carbon laminates and Mil Spec coatings. I have used pretty much everything and I agree very much with with your get over it and move on point of view. Catalyzed materials rule the day and they are also dangerous. I had to retire early because I got sensitized to any exposure. Yes I used protective equipment but this stuff is powerfull and people react to it even small amounts that may still be in the mix area or fumes venting as something is curing. Got to be careful!
I think we are at the time the next generation of coatings will soon take over and that seems to be UV activated. Hit it with light and bam its cured. Dentists have been fixing your teeth with it for years. Its used in manufacturing and is now getting out to the public. While I have not used it I do plan to!
Our buddy Mike is using it for some stuff and I love the idea of UV cure. Simtec makes sealer with UV cure. I'm down to try it .
Have you worked with the catalyzed lacquers? I've got a Strat I used it on.
First... 😆
I never used lacquer.
And as an amateur i'm not afraid to say, i use spray cans with very good results. Today i sprayed a Jaguar neck and it will come out great after buffing.
Keep on rolling old man 👍
You got to use what works for you. I think it's cool that people make guitars and use whatever they want. If I had my way everything would have an oil finish and people would love it. I did that for a few years and the market reaction was less than stellar hahaha
I was going to ask about your opinion of Minwax Wipe On Poly (polyurethane), Tung Oil or Tru Oil. I've been considering those as finishes, as well. A lot easier to deal with because I wouldn't have to break out the compressor and clean everything afterwards. But it sounds like you're saying there is no market for satin finishes. Is that correct? I've also thought about putting them just on the back of the neck to improve the feel.
I think there is a great market for oil finish or satin finish necks but not necessarily bodies. Of course, I should not be considered a divining rod for popularity hahaha
I like the Sam Maloof oil and wax finishes
Thanks for the reply, Matt...and the great vids.
@@TexasToastGuitars - I agree wholeheartedly! Actually, oil necks, and French polished bodies.
Thank you Matt. Very informative for someone trying to go from part time hobby to something a bit more pro. Um...that would be me (not building any "replicas", so it's all good to know). All of my painting knowledge comes from Automotive (and old school, at that...pre 80s), so this helps and makes a lot of sense.
Hi Bob,
The replica guys have it down to science and if you are doing that you have to go all in. Pre 1980's... what was the hot set-up then?
Thanks for watching brotherman
We don't need any more "replica" Electric Guitar makers in the Detroit area; we have Wallace and a couple others, so customers have too many to choose from, already. I'll let them fight with the lacquers :). As far as what the hot setup was: My Dad's old Montgomery Wards stand up air compressor, DeVilbis spray guns and, yes, good old DuPont Nitrocellulose Lacquer. My Dad taught me how to paint, and we were painting cars from the 50s-70s eras. The GMs had Lacquer, and the Fords had some Enamels after the 50s. SO MUCH SANDING and so many coats were applied (sometimes up to 30) just for a nice shine and feathering in all the divits. And painting on a humid day?...forget it! DuPont thinners were great and all, but orange peel was not sexy! AND checking and peeling weren't so sexy after the clear coat had been exposed for many years. Metal is definitely not the same as wood by any means! My Dad is very pleased I am considering getting into spraying again, he's just not up on the new "tech" available, and has a bit of hate for what he calls "plastic paint" on cars. He is right, though. Repairs on the new cars are a nightmare compared to the old days. Sometimes I wish I had also hung around the local Table and Countertop shop just down the street, where the guys used to spray furniture, but instead I decided to work at a guitar shop...so I guess I learned all the tricks for a lot of things there, but we always sent our paint jobs out to a local furniture maker...(gosh I feel old, now. NONE of those places are in business anymore, the last being the DuPont store). AHH, yes...the DuPont store my Dad got the "in" with, somehow. That place was amazing to me. The guys would let lil' ol 12 year old me mix paints by the magic spells in the "giant DuPont Magic Book"! and the guys working there smoking by the paint..OMG were people dumb back then...ahahahaha. oh, sorry about writing a book, there. Just some great memories. BUT..now is now..onward and forward.
Matt, I never miss an episode. You, Jon Sullivan (kind of MIA for awhile with his new factory line) and Ben Crowe are my 3 top Luthiers on CZcams. all 3 of you in the last 10 minutes have forgotten more about making great guitars than I may ever know (and Grover Jackson and Dan Erlewine have us all beat...lol). Say, I used to see Dan at Herb David's Guitar Shop in Ann Arbor (now closed, also) all the time back in the 70s-80s. He was always so cool and always knew how to fix anything. By the time I moved there in the 90s, he had gone on to his own shop in Ohio. I am getting so old (sigh). My main point was, if it's Texas Toast Guitars, I am THERE, baby! Sure wish I lived closer...you'd have a Klingon at the shop every day...
Would you suspect the deltron top coat's UV properties might help prevent or slow the aging/browning of colorful woods like purpleheart?
Absolutely it will. Automotive basecoat (color coat) will fade in a month without clear on top.
I doubt it. Purpleheart is just going to turn brownish after a while. There's a wood site that has some tips on keeping the colors, but it says that it just turns color over time, and they specifically mentioned purpleheart.
Robert Graf yeah I’ve also seen that. I wonder if the effect is mostly caused by UV or oxygen exposure or otherwise. I don’t recall seeing much info on it in terms of intentionally applying a UV blocker though
Hi Matt what mask filters do you use ?
I'll have to check they are 3M something or another
Is there any advantage to baking the paint after application? Auto finishes are often left under heat lamps to add durability - is this process necessary over wood base?.
The chemical reaction is certainly faster if you add heat
All it heat does is dry paint faster. They sell it as more durable but it aint.
We have sprayed a variety of paint bases for the last 45 years (for signs) and lacquer really sucks on a guitar. It never cures for one thing. I have reactivated lacquer finishes (on Gibsons… yes plural, more than once) while playing for 12 hours in a day and it actually got soft and gummy!
Can you please tell me what size nozzle/needle are you using for Simtec and same question for Deletion or Omni? Thanx
I hear ya, it's a silly thing to use but stories are easier to believe than facts sometimes. We use the largest nozzle we can find for Simtec I think we have a 2.2 right now. All the base colors are sprayed with Devilbiss Finishline guns and top coat is sprayed with am Iwata lph400.
@@TexasToastGuitars Thanx!
For me, I feel like my hand slides easier on acrylic lacquer. Body finish doesn't matter so much. The reason I think is that Urethane is a type of hard rubber and tends to not slide against skin as well. I you ever feel like you need to steel-wool a neck or use talc that's probably what's going on. You've probably got a poly finish.
Thanks for that dude
The poly that has a bad name for guitars is polyurethane, not polyester. Polyurethane is a real pain to strip. Even the methylene chloride strippers (the nasty stuff you can feel when you get even a tiny droplet on you) will only craxe the finish, and you'll have to sand it off. It can also get gummy after a while under certain conditions. I've heard the PRS uses polyester finishes, but I'm not certain.
More guitar companies than not use polyester
@@TexasToastGuitars I think that is recent, however. There are now environmental issues that have made lacquers more difficult to deal with as far as regulatory issues. I don't think there any polyester finishes available back in the 60s. Also, the Polyesters are not solvent based, as far as I know. Have you ever tried removing one? Are there any chemical strippers?
@@robertgraf9265 We remove them mechanically rather than chemically. We haven't use lacquer for many years
Poly , as you say just means "Many" and in organic chemistry terms, means a polymer. Which is a bunch of monomers, or small individual molecules of many types, which can be chemically bonded to each other. Two monomers make a dimer (2 of them!), 3 make a trimer, and MANY make a polymer. So PVC is Poly Vinyl Chloride. PTFE is Poly Tetra Fluor Ethylene.
So yes. you are absolutely right. The term "Poly", on it's own actually means nothing, except that you have (usually) a chain of smaller molecules joined chemically together.
It's the way the chains join up and react to each other that gives the polymer its particular characteristics.
Here endeth the lesson!
PS. my finishing experience is limited to a few bodies and necks, mostly finished with Danish oil. I like it, I understand how to use it, and i like the look of what it does to woods. I actually like the open grained finish on mahogany, as well as what it does to the colour of that and sapele. And have got some nice semi-gloss finish on maple tops. Yes, its not that durable, but easy to touch up and repair. But enjoying your info on "proper" finishes. Great series of videos.
Thanks Mr. Wizzard
Hey! You're welcome! Just hammering home the point, with my usual lack of subtlety!
Thanks for watching Tim. I like oil finishes a lot as well but in our neck of the woods they aren't very marketable. In an odd twist of events once we got all set up to spray hard finishes we discovered it was actually easier to do satin finish necks rather than oil. The prototype Daily Drivers had oil and wax necks but the new ones have hard finish. Getting a decent finish, no matter what you use, is really one of the hardest parts... I would say the second hardest part. Marketing and selling guitars is the new hardest part. I have guys who tell me about all the guitars they could make and plans to take over the world... become the next PRS etc. I remember what it was like to be young so I get it but like Joe from Heritage told me once "...the last thing the world needs is another guitar company."
"...the last thing the world needs is another guitar company." OUCH!!😃. Makes me wonder what a future documentary on guitars from this era, might have to say.
these guys solved my 2 year search to find out what DW Drums uses.
Oh wow, that's cool
@@TexasToastGuitars I know you guys don't do drums, but I'd sure like to see you give it a go even if it was just one single drum. You can find loads of "how to paint your drums" videos but very few of them are good resources. I've discerned a few hints here and there from DW and Gretsch videos, but not until now have all the pieces fallen into place. Simtech Polyster sealer was the key.
Why?
it looks like plastic
@@CymbalVault maybe but that's what DW uses.
@@tobiyarbrough5239 why do you need to know?
I've been thinking about converting my tuff shed in my back yard into my dedicated spray booth, any suggestions for a good fan or extraction setup?
We had an explosion proof fan for a while and it was okay but really noisy. now we use a variable speed exhaust fan and a filter bank. I think it came from Tractor Supply. Don't forget your intake air
I did exactly that, converted a tuff shed. I thought I was going to be shooting lacquer- am rethinking that now- but so I put an explosion proof fan in. The cheapest I could find was made by Jenny, and it was still around $600, just before a price increase. EP fans can be a lot more than that. I made a sliding interior door with a wire frame that holds air filters, regular air-conditioning filters. I can open the outer door all the way and slide this door in place and have filtered intake air. There is a formula for calculating the area you need for your intake air for the size and power of your fan and the size of your booth. Jenny will calculate that for you. The floor of the shed was dirty from storing lawn mowers etc in there, so when I converted the shed I sanded the floor and painted it with deck paint so that I can now not only vacuum in there, but I can wet mop in there before shooting as an extra anti-dust measure. Of course I then had to also build a new shed to house the yard tools. Remind me to never do that again in South Texas in August.
I think I got an email from you James, sorry I haven't gotten back to you yet... I will but time is in short supply. I'm trying to catch up and communications & media stuff today.
I will be waiting with bated breath, as soon as I figure out what "bated" means... : )
I'm a master at it
,hey man why aren't u using ????? Just kidding u guys are awsome
Thanks John, have a great Labor Day weekend my friend.
Late to the party, but...Matt I think I heard you say that if you are going to use a more natural wood color (ie not using paint), we still need to use a sealer, dumb question on my part, how do wood dyes or oils work with sealers, I can’t afford the paint guns or paints so going more natural old school wood lol, thanks man.
All products will work differently with the other brands, the best way to know for sure is do some test pieces. It isn't exciting but it is the right thing to do :)
Texas Toast Guitars thanks Matt! I got some scraps laying around. Appreciate and love your channel.
Matt, so being the total nerd that I am, I pulled up the spec sheets of al the stuff you talked about. Why are you using a polyester sanding sealer and polyurethane finishes over it? Is that what the crusty old guy at PPG suggested? :) Do they not make a polyurethane sanding sealer that might be easier to strip if us hobby builders sanded through our sealer coats? Just wondering why you went with polyester as the sealer when it can be so difficult to work with.
Hi GosselinCreative,
I am a little confused... are you recommending that I use a sanding sealer that is easy for people to remove? I am happy to build guitars with no finish and save prospective clients the hassle of getting rid of all the paint. As far as the crusty old guy at PPG... no, a different crusty old guy recommended the Simtec sealer. He does custom airbrush & finish work for companies like Jackson, BC RIch, and DAngelico and he was the one who hipped us to that product. We love using it and have no plans to switch. If you do sand through your sealer coat (we do it all the time) you can just re-apply. I think you will find that it is very easy to work with and forgiving as well. We are a bunch of savages and even we can get it to work.
Matt, no, I'm not recommending anything. I'm an idiot when it comes to these new finishes.I'm currently a hobby builder, and, thus, prone to mistakes. I have been reading from other posters about the indestructibility of polyester, which immediately makes me wonder if I screw up and sand through, how hard is it going to be to fix my mistake. Hence, if I need a do-over, easy stripability (is that a word?) would be for me, the maker, not the user. From your reply, it sounds like Simtec works a lot like the lacquer-based sealer and is not as difficult to deal with as I imagined. You just reapply as soon as you sand through. Thank you for sharing your knowledge. My questions were simply questions. There is no holier-than-thou attitude behind them. I'm a babe in the woods when it comes to modern finishes.
Simple misunderstanding, the polyester is very durable and it can go on super thick and be a pain to get it off of import guitars if you want to take it down to bare wood. I think that the way import guitars are finished is more of an indictment of the work force's skill level than the products used. It's a big factory and I'd bet on of the first jobs people do is sand polyester sealer. If you are interested in giving it a try I think you will be surprised just how straight forward it is to deal with. Now... it's crazy sticky and we always suit up before breaking the stuff out. I see lots of people watching these finish videos and I've got more coming. Stick around
A polyester coating is very versatile. After all, that's what fiberglass is.
I was told that real Nitrocellulose hasn't been used in years. It's dangerous stuff, really flammable. I sure don't want a paint job that's going to check.
Hi Fred,
It is true that the stuff being sold today branded as nitrocellulose lacquer... say like at the Sherwin Williams store is not the same stuff that guitar companies used in the 50's. The percentage of celluloid is less. I have been told that companies have to pay a lot of money to use the higher percentage stuff but I don't have any evidence to back that up.
It is really flammable!
Small companies that claim to use it. clearly, are not visited by the fire marshal.
" " i'm quoting the gesture you used after you said "you gotta use nitro to make the best guitar". Next time, include the discharge after the initial shake. Think of it like shaking dice and then throwing them on the craps table. If you want to be real cleaver and secret, blow on the dice to dazzle them.
Point taken Mark
Btw. i had a 36 year old Hoyer acoustic Macaferri gipsy style guitar. It had those nitro lacquer cracks all over and i tell you, i hated it. Even if they say it's vintage and it has to be this way, i hated it. Looked like spider webs all over.
Well it's sold now and it doesn't bother my eyes anymore.
I can dig the way lacquer checks but I have a weird thing about buying a guitar with finish damage. If I owned it when it got checked that would be okay... like I said strange hangup for me
Why would the Fender custom shop use it if it is so bad
HAHAHA I know everything the Fender Custom Shop does is holy and anything else is sacrilege
technically i use lacquer, i use a mix of shellac and copal resins, i'm really not into modern finishes, i've tried them all and it's just not my thing in terms of look and feel, and let's be honnest, the fragile part of shellac is what i'm looking for, i want natural patina in my projects! That being said, never ever will i use nitro lacquer, that stuff is just too damn dangerous to use in my very small shop, i don't have a booth, i don't have a wall of extractors , i don't have filters, and in my country, IF you can find nitro, it will cost way too much for me to even consider using it.
Great video Matt, I can't stand nitro it's so bad for your health on top of all of it's finish flaws. I've been really digging your recent videos you've been putting out some really good stuff.
Thanks brotherman
Polyester ? I don't know Matt I don't like disco. I do like disco balls but that was just that one Travolta movie. I was also snorting nitro off of a cork so maybe not my best judgement lol
Everyone says they hated disco but the KISS Dynasty album comes on and suddenly my shop turns into Studio 54
Texas Toast Guitars haha
I ´m using Nitro and Poly finishes since 1999, I love nitro, despite the pros and cons compared with polys, I like the polys for hard use guitars finishes but, I always hated the "Chinese Look" of it, no matter how thin you spray, the poly will always look chinese for me.
Live how you want to live
You gotta use nitro to make the best guitar.
I dunno what history you have WRT to refinishing instruments from other companies - but Sammick uses something that makes Fullerplast look like sanding sealer. JFC I've had bodies that would literally 1/4" thinner after removing whatever it is they encase those bastards in.....
Knuckle Head... :)
We don't do any repairs or refinishing these days. I know that the stuff they use on those imported guitars is pretty heavy duty. Have a great weekend amigo
Fender mostly uses poly sealers under their nitro finishes anyway so...
this color is called "80 dollar blue" do you know why we call it "80 dollar blue"?
cause it cost 90 dollars lol
Lets start the rumor Polyester is a "tone" plastic... If we repeat it often enough it becomes true and accepted vintage knowledge. Even if its total BS. That is how fake news works or how they want it to work.. Think what we want you to think ... buy what we tell you to buy and vote how we tell you to. Sort of how Guitar finishes have been stuck on Nitro...
We are working on a new blog about how people tap on woods by holding it away from their bodies to let it ring out. Of course, when I play I suffocate my guitar up in 200 pounds of person meat... that's got to be good for the tone
See... I have been trying to tell everyone that since I lived in Munich Germany for several years, right when I was in my 20's and had just started developing my beer gut, and since I've continued my love of well crafted German lagers and pilsners, my belly fat is properly conditioned, "Tone Fat." Whenever I hunker down over an otherwise mediocre guitar, my tone fat resonates in just such a way... it's really indescribable. And if I take my shirt off for maximum tone-fat to contact ratio... I've seen audiences have to literally leave because it was too awesome for them to withstand. I have Japanese scientists from Kobe Japan that come to my shows just to... Okay... I've run this into the ground. Awesome videos man! ;-)
NEVER use 'person meat' in a sentence again, please & thank you...
You gotta use nitro to make the best guitar......
Okay
Most people do not realise that LACQUER is NOT ACRYLIC and ACRYLIC IS NOT LACQUER!! Not the same but two separate animals altogether. Lacquer was invented in 1923 by the Plasti-kote Corporation. Despite the name and the connotations that people get from it plastic was not a product but a process. Anything that could go from being a liquid to a solid was considered plastic. At that time acrylic had yet to be invented by almost 21 years!!
Acrylic paints were called enamel lacquers and everyone knows that the two are not only NOT the same thing but are totally incompatible. This was from the DuPont family and they made paints. Acrylic is inorganic compounds and lacquer is made from nitrocellulose tree gum spirits. So much for being lacquer! How they considered lacquer and acrylic or even enamel the same thing is anyones' guess! Lacquer is a product and not a generic term. They should've known better being a chemical company.
Much like in Marijuanada (formerly the country known as Canada) everything there is called varnish even when it isn't!! But either way LACQUER STILL SUCKS!! I hate it and I hate all the snobbery surrounding it since the advent of using polyester on guitars in the 70s. All the Fender snobs shunned because it was something different and not knowing or understanding what it even was without realising that it is much better suited as a true durable industrial finish! Thank you for being wise enough to know that all this lacquer worship is bullshit. And the jack-off motion is so well deserved by all the snobs as this is how I feel about it too. It is apparent that you understand the properties of paint and how it reacts and how it is properly used.
don't keep saying disney... you'll get demonetised! lol
They don't allow OMNI MC270 in the state of California. After watching this video, I was ready to purchase this product - I even called PPG and the nice person I spoke with revealed that, although they are able to distribute SOME of their products in CA, sadly the environmental fascists won't allow the 270 here in this bullshit state. Fuck the environment. I hate California. I've never even been to Texas, but I fantasize about moving there. I might even consider it, except I don't want to add to the influx of California douchebags currently overrunning your great state. Thanks for all of the fun and informative videos, not to mention all of your glorious guitars. I have learned SO MUCH from your channel. You guys are awesome!!!
We have stopped using Omni 270 and have switched to Tamco paints.
I'm not sure if they are allowed either but you might see what else is out there for automotive finishes
People using the term "poly" really piss me off, too! I always ask them if it's polyurethane or Polyester and they don't have a clue. Two totally different animals altogether. They've read it on a forum as "poly" posted by another person that doesn't know the difference, either. Worse, when someone gives them advice on how to strip a "poly" finish off of a guitar, without asking what exactly the finish is made from. I laugh my ass off when someone tells them to use paint stripper, considering that if it's Polyester, it ain't coming off unless you break it off or sand it off (still breaking it technically)
Oh, you can strip it. I have. You just have to use the right kind of stripper. You have to use aircraft paint remover. It's nasty stuff. Gotta use gloves because it's even more caustic than regular stripper.
We use a thickness planner
Thanks for watching bucknaked, the guitar building forums are great places to learn things. Sometimes they are even the right things hahaha.
Then how do you get it off the sides? Belt sander?
Aircraft stripper will NOT remove Polyester, it will however remove polyurethane. If you took it off with aircraft stripper, it was more than likely catalyzed polyurethane and not Polyester. When I was first starting out, I used aircraft stripper on Polyester not knowing the properties of it, didn't touch it. Years later, I was talking to the guy who formulated Duratec... that's the stuff Fender uses now instead of Fullerplast and he explained to me why aircraft stripper doesn't work on it. It's because it's Polyester resin... it also has acetone as a thinner, styrene monomer, cobalt and carnauba wax, but it's mostly resin.