Not only the subtitles helped me understand this video but at the very end is where I absorbed the most out of all this. Great job posting this, totally worth subscribing for more!
Thanks for the video, even 15 years later it helps people out, the Japanese really helped me fully understand it and thanks to the subtitles I was able to learn so much that I'm now an engine engineer at Mitsubishi motors.
From what I see, Mivec and Vtec run on the same priciple which is 2 primary cam profiles. One for low end torque and the other for high end. The VVT is not nearly as good because it only adjust the timing on a single cam profile. The new iVtec is basically a cross between VVT and Vtec/Mivec. All in all the newer motors seem to be pretty impressive
The MIVEC vs. VVT-i is a pretty fun race. I raced my buddy who has a 2008 Scion tC, HKS Cold Air Intake,removed catalysis converter, and Magnaflow exhaust vs. My 2011 Lancer with Magnaflow exhaust. He had the advantage in weight and take off the line, but I had the advantage of power in higher RPM's and MPH.
MIVEC gives variable lift and duration(phase as you call it) for intake AND exhaust. exactly the same as VTEC. if you look at the cam lobes in the MIVEC engine, you'll see that one cam is taller, fatter, starts earlier in the revolution, and ends later than the other. thus greater lift and duration. if you look at the cam profiles for a VTEC engine, you'll have a hard time telling them apart as they look almost identical.
You have wowed me with your words of wisdom. I now totally agree with everything you say. I am hypnotized by your eloquence as you must be as much a master of engines as you are of spelling and grammar, as well as wit.
MIVEC is by Japanese auto manufacturer Mitsubishi VTEC is by Japanese auto manufacturer Honda VVT is by Japanese auto manufacturer Toyota Why would this video be in any language other than Japanese?
cus 90% of youtube understand english while 5% of them udnerstand japanese. also because 35% of all cars in euro are japanese ofc. it should be in english u dumb fuck.
Also in the Lancer and Mirage...The 4cylinder mivec engines put out the same power but MORE torque then the same honda engine. 4g92 (1600cc MIVEC) vs B16a (1600cc Honda) Google it...
I was talking about the engine itself, not the whole car. Toyotas are less efficient due to heavier duty parts because they are overbuilt like you wouldn't believe. You wanna know how many civics, accords, preludes I fix every month? a LOT more than the camyrs'(sp?), corollas, prius's(??), yaris's's's(?!?!?!), echos and all those. I AM my info, I've been an ASE certified drivetrain repair specialist for 20 years.
It's the same system at heart, just Toyota wanted to up the standards... by the time of the AE101 the VVT system was upgraded to VVT-i, in which valve timing was more electronically supported. VVTL-i is the same system, just it's running on dual adjustable cam gears instead of only one like its predecessors.
In a nutshell - he tried to race a Civic in his Lancer. After VTEC kicked, his boss ordered him to explain why he lost (which he is doing now) and after that find Fegelein.
Correct. The BMW-based technology for (continuously) variable valve lift is brand-named as "Valvetronic". Valvetronic & Vanos work together. I don't know wether Valvetronic beat Honda VTEC to market - but I think it came out around 1999, and I recall it won an "engine of the year" award in it's category. I'm too lazy to try to describe the Valvetronic approach, but it's very different than the approaches shown in these videos (although the essential concept is the same).
mivec is also meant to work from a much lower RPM range than VTEC, though without the whole OMG VTEC JUST KICKED IN, that happens when VTEC goes off above 5-6k.
soon we can expect variable piston displacement timing, variable connecting rod timing, variable compression ratio timing, mechanics will be getting more and more headaches as well
@Descente36 I've not only heard of it mate, I've owned one! I had a 1990 VX-S Galant with a high compression 4G63. It wasn't the engine that was problematic, it was the rest of the car, the electrics, the sundries and accessories. Plus it was pretty heavy and the handling was a bit to be desired. I do believe the Evos and GSRs are excellent cars, but even then still expensive to fix.... still much rather a Mitsi than a Subaru even then.
@henry51563 actually a stock crx with a b16a with y1 trans will do low 15's high 14's in a quarter mile on street tires. while a stock 5.0 mustang will do 14.5-15 second runs..
I'm not saying this because I have the mivec. But the Vtec controls only the exhaust valve timing. But the Mivec controls both Intake valve timing and exhaust valve timing. What you may have heard is that hondaq engines with vtec have a higher power output. But that is just the peak power at high rpm but the low-end torque is horrible.
I was not refering to honda in the 90s, I was talking about BMW now. i-vtec is just the old Vtec with an electronic butterly (something BMW debuted in1988) so the driver won't notice a cam lobe changeover. do a youtube search for valvetronic and Vanos(which has always been on both camshafts) and tell me what you think then.
i think what slzkilla was tryin to say is MIVEC was designed as an aid to a turbocharged engine. it was designed to assist with turbo lag, because the evo engines are all turbocharged. Whereas with the honda vtec, it was designed purely for NA tuning. so in the comparison on the video, VTEC would out perform the MIVEC when just considering the NA side of things. It could for all we know outperform it on the turbocharged side of things too. although i doubt it. they should compare Vario-cam too.
You forget that needed twin turbo and a 5.5ltr engine to perform the way it does. F1 in the turbo era only had single turbo, smaller displacement of 1.5 litre and no doubt lower boost.
Kinda yes.But trust me low cam works better from a high cam at low-mid rpm range so 2 cam sizes is not bad.But yes Hondas start to pul from 3800+.Its not a problem if your redline is at 9k rpm.
Commercially anything that makes power comes at a premium (since power is what everyone wants) hence even if it is old tech (turbo) it is still an option or reserved only for the premium models. Same reason that powered seats, leather and sunroof has been around since the 60's (manufactured cheaper today) and is still a premium and reserved item. But in the intellectual side, producing the same hp or overall performance w/out force induction is regarded as more admirable.
By the other manufacturers comparing their valve controls systems to Honda Vtec they not only prove that Honda had a working (not gimmick) valve technology but also shows that Honda was ahead in engine technology as Vtec was around years before Mivec, VVT, VVTi, Vanos Copies etc
FIAT had the first VVT system and GM developed VVT in 1975. Alfa Romeo was the first to mass produce VVT. Nissan beat Honda as well with the VG30DE in 86...VTEC finally showed up in 86.
@TheForza1000 what do you mean it rusted ? my cousin in england used to have a landrover but it broke down and then she got a shogun 2003 model and she hasent had nothing wrong with it since, and here i c loads of old pajeros still running from 1980s and we have a 1998 galant and nothing has gone wrong with it only ofcourse brake pads and other minor stuff but my pajero is 2010 swb n its great for a girl who doesnt need the big lwb. in kuwait fuel is cheap and actually my pajero does 13.2l/100km
@henry51563 The only reason V8's make power is becuase of how many cylinders they have and the HUGE displacement. It's truly amazing engineering when you can get 200+ horsepower out of a 4 cylinder with probably a third of the displacement.
About who takes of first is a matter of torque car weight etc. Do a google search for k20a dyno and 4b11 dyno. Look at the torque curves and see that the 4b11 has higher and flatter low end torque. It is just a matter of tuning 520a is tuned for high power output. That just means that its powerband its in the high rpm
I'm sorry, I drive the 2011 Mitsubishi Lancer Evo X GSR. A highly tuned turbocharged sport sedan, surely Honda's VTEC or i-TVEC can't compete. What do you drive?
If you notice on the honda system the intake valves in non vtec open at different times and for different duration for better low end torque and unleashes the dogs in vtec... the others dont do that... which is another reason that in my opinion the honda is the best. GOOD VID
It's true that B16b is better than 4age in term of performance, but on track we r not only considering the engine performance. Turbo is faster compared to NA engine but on track it sux. On track, handling is one of the most important thing. Remember 2nd profile of vtec's cam is nearly 300 degree, but 4age don't have this kind of 2nd profile cam's degree at 4 - 5krpm. VVT also do not give any performance output, it only helps to optimise the fuel efficiency. It's basically a normal 1.6 engine.
I hesitate to say that the new "advanced VTEC" is an IMPROVEMENT, as much as an alteration. instead of using different cam profiles, they are using different rocker arms... different way of doing the exact same thing.
They weren't really made for performance. They were made for mostly fuel economy and city driving. Its quick for a 1.8 SOHC. The 0-60mph is like 7.8sec in the 2006 dx coupe. It gets like 34mpg. They are great cars, but i want a little more power that's why i got the Si.
Yes it does. Thats the whole point of the comparison. Being the best in the same category is all about having more (or the most) amongst your peers (under the same rules and restrictions & category). You cant argue against the most powerful 4 cylinder turbo car by throwing in an argument about a 6 cylinder turbo car, or an 8, 10 , jet or rocket car. The best - is finding a way of having more (than your peers - under the same conditions - could not ). The little things makes the difference.
so, you are saying 100 year old butterfly throttles and static and/or staged camshaft timing is more advanced than variable intake/exhaust camshaft timing and variable (not staged) intake valve opening? to digress to the waranty issue, BMW has replaced several of the new M5 V10's under warranty. considering the X5's V8 is $21,000 retail, that engine most likeley costs more than most hondas.
@wongmylesa and how do you feel about the greater efficiency, and potential for power of toyota's vvti? they make better cars than honda AND mitsubishi (no offense, just the facts)
the Japanese totally cleared things up for me. this video was very helpful.
Same.
Wait... I don't speak Japanese
lmao
🤣
🤣
Honda is Japanese hahaha
Not only the subtitles helped me understand this video but at the very end is where I absorbed the most out of all this. Great job posting this, totally worth subscribing for more!
Juan Cabeza ... and after 1 year, i be here right now to LMAO for ya 😂
For English, you can watch my videos in the video response section. Though I've only explained VTEC and 3-Stage, but at least it should be clear.
I don't understand it all, but I already prefer this version ;P
so rare to find your comment so un-noticed xD
rare engineering explained cameo with 15 likes
MIVEC just kicked in yo!
Mivec is the superior tec lol
Thanks for the video, even 15 years later it helps people out, the Japanese really helped me fully understand it and thanks to the subtitles I was able to learn so much that I'm now an engine engineer at Mitsubishi motors.
I love japanese technical videos because they always have some sort of quasi rock background music w/ B.A guitar solos
From what I see, Mivec and Vtec run on the same priciple which is 2 primary cam profiles. One for low end torque and the other for high end. The VVT is not nearly as good because it only adjust the timing on a single cam profile. The new iVtec is basically a cross between VVT and Vtec/Mivec.
All in all the newer motors seem to be pretty impressive
the video just says, that at the end if u want more power, u need a turbo.
The MIVEC vs. VVT-i is a pretty fun race. I raced my buddy who has a 2008 Scion tC, HKS Cold Air Intake,removed catalysis converter, and Magnaflow exhaust vs. My 2011 Lancer with Magnaflow exhaust. He had the advantage in weight and take off the line, but I had the advantage of power in higher RPM's and MPH.
MIVEC gives variable lift and duration(phase as you call it) for intake AND exhaust. exactly the same as VTEC. if you look at the cam lobes in the MIVEC engine, you'll see that one cam is taller, fatter, starts earlier in the revolution, and ends later than the other. thus greater lift and duration. if you look at the cam profiles for a VTEC engine, you'll have a hard time telling them apart as they look almost identical.
You have wowed me with your words of wisdom. I now totally agree with everything you say. I am hypnotized by your eloquence as you must be as much a master of engines as you are of spelling and grammar, as well as wit.
You know... VTEC and MIVEC does exactly the same thing :)
Oh really ? Like the same exact thing? Or are they slightly different
@@michaelhall3619 MIVEC feels like smooth change ...VTEC feels like an abrupt change over.......the differences never bothered me
Woah !!! Best vid ever!
Ohhh, okay.... totally understood. thanks bro.
Thanks my friends for everything ❗️🇯🇵
MIVEC is by Japanese auto manufacturer Mitsubishi
VTEC is by Japanese auto manufacturer Honda
VVT is by Japanese auto manufacturer Toyota
Why would this video be in any language other than Japanese?
cus 90% of youtube understand english while 5% of them udnerstand japanese. also because 35% of all cars in euro are japanese ofc. it should be in english u dumb fuck.
Greg Hudnall If the video is in another language with no subtitles, the uploader shouldn't put the title in English.
It's still pretty moot to complain about it.
+NickAndo2 I agree and I can't stand it when people do that
The title was in English plain and simple
@1PARADOXXX No you can clearly hear mivec, i'm pretty sure every variable valve timing system you can hear when it is working.
Also in the Lancer and Mirage...The 4cylinder mivec engines put out the same power but MORE torque then the same honda engine.
4g92 (1600cc MIVEC) vs B16a (1600cc Honda)
Google it...
nice video r4pt0r
mit den vid sieht man gut wie der motor aufgebaut ist und die nockenwellen schaltet :-)
frage: Coltmania?
I was talking about the engine itself, not the whole car. Toyotas are less efficient due to heavier duty parts because they are overbuilt like you wouldn't believe. You wanna know how many civics, accords, preludes I fix every month? a LOT more than the camyrs'(sp?), corollas, prius's(??), yaris's's's(?!?!?!), echos and all those.
I AM my info, I've been an ASE certified drivetrain repair specialist for 20 years.
@1PARADOXXX it depends on how aggressive the cam profile is
It's the same system at heart, just Toyota wanted to up the standards... by the time of the AE101 the VVT system was upgraded to VVT-i, in which valve timing was more electronically supported. VVTL-i is the same system, just it's running on dual adjustable cam gears instead of only one like its predecessors.
I own Cyborg Rs, hope will keep it forever
In a nutshell - he tried to race a Civic in his Lancer. After VTEC kicked, his boss ordered him to explain why he lost (which he is doing now) and after that find Fegelein.
You actually now that MIVEC is way better then VTEC
@@PFelizSuero there's nothing better than vtec. Not even turbos
@@vascorodriguez6642 hahahaha
Bro i have had both and i know which one is better!! MIVEC is way superior!!
@@PFelizSuero why is mivec better ? honest question i am curious
@@oOLittleDevil Just better performance bro!!
@dblancer apparently, you've never heard of the 4G63 motor
beautiful engineering
thank you for posting
Correct. The BMW-based technology for (continuously) variable valve lift is brand-named as "Valvetronic". Valvetronic & Vanos work together. I don't know wether Valvetronic beat Honda VTEC to market - but I think it came out around 1999, and I recall it won an "engine of the year" award in it's category. I'm too lazy to try to describe the Valvetronic approach, but it's very different than the approaches shown in these videos (although the essential concept is the same).
@1PARADOXXX No...there is a pretty noticeable change in the diamante DOHC V6 mivec...well the ones i've heard anyway
@NipponGTO I think Nissan calls them NEO, NEO-RB25DET for instance.
@EthansOpinion92 Actually I believe toyota recieves assistance from yamaha on developing the valvetrains of their hi output engines
mivec is also meant to work from a much lower RPM range than VTEC, though without the whole OMG VTEC JUST KICKED IN, that happens when VTEC goes off above 5-6k.
I can tell that those Japanese guys was talking about cars the whole time
soon we can expect variable piston displacement timing, variable connecting rod timing, variable compression ratio timing, mechanics will be getting more and more headaches as well
yup. plus timing tech helps when you have RPMs to work with after it kicks in. That's Honda's specialty with 8,9, and 10K RPM engines. ;)
@Descente36 I've not only heard of it mate, I've owned one! I had a 1990 VX-S Galant with a high compression 4G63. It wasn't the engine that was problematic, it was the rest of the car, the electrics, the sundries and accessories. Plus it was pretty heavy and the handling was a bit to be desired. I do believe the Evos and GSRs are excellent cars, but even then still expensive to fix.... still much rather a Mitsi than a Subaru even then.
Sory my freind but I dont have bike :(
You are from Florida? nice....What wether do you have right now? cold or form?
i enjoy the constant tourqe of my vvti
El japones es totalmente claro para mi, este vídeo fue de mucha ayuda, entendí todo :)
es broma no??? o de verdad lo entendiste...
damn this looks good now if only i could understand kengi
@henry51563 actually a stock crx with a b16a with y1 trans will do low 15's high 14's in a quarter mile on street tires. while a stock 5.0 mustang will do 14.5-15 second runs..
he is truly wise beyond his years
@KyleKatastrofee not when you can't vary the duration or lift.
I'm not saying this because I have the mivec. But the Vtec controls only the exhaust valve timing. But the Mivec controls both Intake valve timing and exhaust valve timing. What you may have heard is that hondaq engines with vtec have a higher power output. But that is just the peak power at high rpm but the low-end torque is horrible.
yea ur right but wut about the civic DX for example how good r those r18a1 engines
@amnesia2810 good question!
So which system is the best?!
I was not refering to honda in the 90s, I was talking about BMW now.
i-vtec is just the old Vtec with an electronic butterly (something BMW debuted in1988) so the driver won't notice a cam lobe changeover.
do a youtube search for valvetronic and Vanos(which has always been on both camshafts) and tell me what you think then.
i think what slzkilla was tryin to say is MIVEC was designed as an aid to a turbocharged engine. it was designed to assist with turbo lag, because the evo engines are all turbocharged. Whereas with the honda vtec, it was designed purely for NA tuning. so in the comparison on the video, VTEC would out perform the MIVEC when just considering the NA side of things. It could for all we know outperform it on the turbocharged side of things too. although i doubt it. they should compare Vario-cam too.
And even TViS is not valve timing, I think it has something to do with the intake manifold, do correct me if i'm wrong
maybe a dumb question, but is this movie available in english somewhere?
i cant get what he said . can tell me which one better ?
ohk, take a 4age blacktop 20v 1.6, a vtec b16a 1.6, and a mivec 4g92 1.6? which one is the best??? u guys decide
What country are we in again?
Which is the best?
That's 1.6 vs 2.0 turbo . Perhaps u might want a contender with 2 liter engine as well. Have u tried with new civic type R??
is vtec the only system that you can hear it change over?
You forget that needed twin turbo and a 5.5ltr engine to perform the way it does.
F1 in the turbo era only had single turbo, smaller displacement of 1.5 litre and no doubt lower boost.
Kinda yes.But trust me low cam works better from a high cam at low-mid rpm range so 2 cam sizes is not bad.But yes Hondas start to pul from 3800+.Its not a problem if your redline is at 9k rpm.
Absolutely.
best video ever!!! Now all I need to do is learn Japanese...
thelocustemperor same I'm starting Japanese in college just for this man, you know knowledge is power and this video has both
Commercially anything that makes power comes at a premium (since power is what everyone wants) hence even if it is old tech (turbo) it is still an option or reserved only for the premium models.
Same reason that powered seats, leather and sunroof has been around since the 60's (manufactured cheaper today) and is still a premium and reserved item.
But in the intellectual side, producing the same hp or overall performance w/out force induction is regarded as more admirable.
Subtitles would be so nice right now.
Is there an English version
By the other manufacturers comparing their valve controls systems to Honda Vtec they not only prove that Honda had a working (not gimmick) valve technology but also shows that Honda was ahead in engine technology as Vtec was around years before Mivec, VVT, VVTi, Vanos Copies etc
lol we will have to test to see. the 2zzge on the celica is pretty fast. Don't gsr have B18c? I thought gsr can't pull corolla with 2zzge?
English please? any translation? TQVM
What about t-vis, & duel Tec?
so someone correct me if i'm wrong.. Honda was the founder of the variable timing right??
FIAT had the first VVT system and GM developed VVT in 1975. Alfa Romeo was the first to mass produce VVT. Nissan beat Honda as well with the VG30DE in 86...VTEC finally showed up in 86.
@TheForza1000 what do you mean it rusted ?
my cousin in england used to have a landrover but it broke down and then she got a shogun 2003 model and she hasent had nothing wrong with it since, and here i c loads of old pajeros still running from 1980s and we have a 1998 galant and nothing has gone wrong with it only ofcourse brake pads and other minor stuff but my pajero is 2010 swb n its great for a girl who doesnt need the big lwb.
in kuwait fuel is cheap and actually my pajero does 13.2l/100km
So if they wanted to, could they do a V8 vtech?
@henry51563 The only reason V8's make power is becuase of how many cylinders they have and the HUGE displacement. It's truly amazing engineering when you can get 200+ horsepower out of a 4 cylinder with probably a third of the displacement.
@somenutjob
yes it does... look up the altezza's......
About who takes of first is a matter of torque car weight etc. Do a google search for k20a dyno and 4b11 dyno.
Look at the torque curves and see that the 4b11 has higher and flatter low end torque. It is just a matter of tuning 520a is tuned for high power output. That just means that its powerband its in the high rpm
that's vvtl-i , how bout vvt? without lifting. example in 4age 20v engine, it dont have lifting cam but still can kick mivec and b16b on the track.
So, wich engine is better??
...a VTI or a 4AGE...??
I'm going to buy car and i am between a Civic VTI and a Corolla G6 4AGE...... some help please!
I'm sorry, I drive the 2011 Mitsubishi Lancer Evo X GSR. A highly tuned turbocharged sport sedan, surely Honda's VTEC or i-TVEC can't compete. What do you drive?
If you notice on the honda system the intake valves in non vtec open at different times and for different duration for better low end torque and unleashes the dogs in vtec... the others dont do that... which is another reason that in my opinion the honda is the best. GOOD VID
Whoops...typo...VTEC was '89
Prior to Fiat, Lycoming used it around WWII.
It's true that B16b is better than 4age in term of performance, but on track we r not only considering the engine performance. Turbo is faster compared to NA engine but on track it sux. On track, handling is one of the most important thing. Remember 2nd profile of vtec's cam is nearly 300 degree, but 4age don't have this kind of 2nd profile cam's degree at 4 - 5krpm. VVT also do not give any performance output, it only helps to optimise the fuel efficiency. It's basically a normal 1.6 engine.
I recognize video option voice.
Yeah I understand that.
I hesitate to say that the new "advanced VTEC" is an IMPROVEMENT, as much as an alteration. instead of using different cam profiles, they are using different rocker arms... different way of doing the exact same thing.
i totally understood that
NOTT
They weren't really made for performance. They were made for mostly fuel economy and city driving. Its quick for a 1.8 SOHC. The 0-60mph is like 7.8sec in the 2006 dx coupe. It gets like 34mpg. They are great cars, but i want a little more power that's why i got the Si.
lancer ralliart has turbo awd mivec... if you didnt know
I wonder how it'd be if they combined the three technologies.....
dont forget there is also neo vvl
well, they re all japanese so they are all good...
Yes it does.
Thats the whole point of the comparison.
Being the best in the same category is all about having more (or the most) amongst your peers (under the same rules and restrictions & category).
You cant argue against the most powerful 4 cylinder turbo car by throwing in an argument about a 6 cylinder turbo car, or an 8, 10 , jet or rocket car.
The best - is finding a way of having more (than your peers - under the same conditions - could not ).
The little things makes the difference.
@RsRocket31 18000 ?
What about DZNUTZ I heard that's a good one
lmao
so, you are saying 100 year old butterfly throttles and static and/or staged camshaft timing is more advanced than variable intake/exhaust camshaft timing and variable (not staged) intake valve opening?
to digress to the waranty issue, BMW has replaced several of the new M5 V10's under warranty. considering the X5's V8 is $21,000 retail, that engine most likeley costs more than most hondas.
@c0V3Ro no coz as it said it each engine is differently innovated. Someone would have to physically design with all 3 in it but i doubt its worth it
You said it buddy...
i see. so there are the weak version of b18c. iono i heard that honda motors are only strong when it is high top rpm.
4age the best????
@wongmylesa and how do you feel about the greater efficiency, and potential for power of toyota's vvti? they make better cars than honda AND mitsubishi (no offense, just the facts)