Amiga Vs Polyend Tracker
Vložit
- čas přidán 26. 02. 2022
- Website: www.msmadlemon.com
Support me on Patreon: / msmadlemon
PCBWay full feature high quality services: www.pcbway.com/
=-Mentioned Links-=
=-More MsMadLemon Videos-=
My Amiga videos: • Amiga
My Commodore 64 videos: • Commodore 64
My Nostalgia Time videos: • Nostalgia Time
My Vintage Repair videos: • Vintage Repair & Resto...
My Audio related videos: • Audio
Chillout time, Talks, vlog: • Chillout Time - Talks,...
My ASMR-esque videos: • ASMR or ASMR-esque
My Electronics videos: • Electronica
#Retro #Tech #Amiga #Women #MsMadLemon #Vintage #Audio #Technology #Commodore - Zábava
6:59 The way the weather went from rain, then snow to bright sunshine in about 15 mins the other day, tells me you're probs close Beverley, East Yorkshire of all the places in the world.
Have you ever tried OctaMed? As a guitarist I used OctaMed in the early '90s to create my own interpretations/variations of songs that the band I was in were going to be covering. I used OctaMed for the drums and bass and then mixed-in my guitar parts by playing live to these "backing" tracks while recording to tape so I could then take the tape to practice sessions so the other band members knew exactly how we were going to play those songs. Amazingly, I still have that very same Amiga 2000, with GVP Geforce 68030/68882 card and OpalVision and a whopping 40MB (!!!) SCSI HD with OctaMed on it, as well as all my disks from those days holding all my music, art and CGI I did in Real3D Pro). If I only knew someone to take a look at it - it has been boxed up for 20 years and now won't power up 😔
Octaned 4 professional, the best tracker ever since computer music was invented.
I use Octa med and pro tracker 90s it’s great to see this video. Good job! -Sidewinder
Why would it be cheating making chip music with the Amiga? It's actually harder making it sound good while keeping it small in file size compared to C64 and Atari with their dedicated synthesis sound chips. The purpose of making chip music on the Amiga was to keep it small in file size, and the expression of it comes from the Amiga. On the other computers it wasn't called chip music, just computer music or likewise.
Strange comment from people. :)
Thanks for showcasing the Polyend Tracker.
I don't understand how could you be so young and have a so deep culture of the amiga scene.... ? I'm almost 50 and I got that culture....
lol i'm not so young, I used to create Amiga music back in the 90s
Hell yeah, by the way you could not have been aware of file size challenge for the cracktro without have had face it by yourself lol
my tracker of choice is Modplug, but the Polyend looks like fun to toy around with for sure
I'm getting back into music after a hiatus, and want a tracker. This was great! Thanks for this intro.
As the meme with the little girl says... "why not both?" - you could probably even drive the amiga as a midi instrument from the Polyend, or drive the Polyend via MIDI (in Octamed or so) from the Amiga :)
Kick-ass thumbnail Maddi! It's something I could see people having as a poster in their Amiga shrine ;) It has somewhat of a star-like quality to it! :D Loved the video as well!
black cats and trackers are two of the best things in existence!
YES! Just the video I was hoping you'd put together after seeing your overview. Thank you for this! And unfortunately there are many people who are unaware that the Amiga could always create synth instruments instead of just using samples. I know OctaMED has a section for creating instruments (not sure about the other trackers), and there were separate software packages like Aegis Sonix that could do the same thing.
Technically are STILL samples at core, just very small, is a technique similar to wavetables
Nice introduction into the tracker concepts. Created lots of samples via Techno Sound Turbo etc. and also mods on my Amiga 2000 back in the days. Still have them on my A2000 today and also a whole diskbox full of .st files. Perhaps i will deal with it again someday...after 28 years 🙂
Nice video, I've loaded trackers before but had no idea what was going on or how you'd use it to make music, so thanks for the intro, will give it a go sometime!
No! No horizontal tracker. Bad idea! Anathema!
that feeling is aliasing :) turn off the anti-aliasing on polyend and enjoy more harsh sound that bring you closer to the old day trackers. i love to turn off this function ;)
Very fun and informative to watch this comparison of Amiga vs Polyend Tracker! I did very many tunes with tracker programs on Amiga in the 90s, it was a fun introduction to the music production world. Keep up the good work!
I appreciated the in-depth comparison, that was fantastic. I will have to pull out my A1200 and experiment. I attempted to learn OctaMED years and years ago but don't think I got anywhere. Thanks for the encouragement to try again.
It helps to learn the button shortcuts like esc turns edit mode on and off, you could also turn on note spacing to make the notes space as you played them which saved time hammering the down cursor key to insert your next note. If you can find an old Amiga Format or CU Amiga on ebay with a tutorial that's how I learned to use it.
@@Jamal_Tyrone Cool. Thanks for the tips.
When Octamed V6 came out I was quite excited, But then I used it and went straight back to V4. It was so awkward to use and everything was in seperate windows which were too easy to accidently close.
The one thing I use ProTracker 2 for is the pattern to sample feature. whereby it converts a full pattern into one sample. I can write a tune for a game, convert tracks 1 & 4 (left) into one sample and tracks 2 & 3 (right) into another. Then I put them back into a mod. This means I can have stereo background music, (chans 1 & 2), and still have 2 channels for sound FX. (chans 3 & 4).
Sorry for the waffle. :) Great comparison video.
The fact that a device has tracker functionality much like the software Amiga trackers is quite fantastic. I think the Amiga sound chips and sample capabilities held up well over the years. It's quite awesome to see how this still compares quite well to something modern like the Polyend tracker. In a way the Amiga probably is more versatile; there are many different tracker/music softwares out there that can't be as easily re-created on the Polyend. Or perhaps they can. The little screen provides enough information to have basically the same functionality. Both of course have their own applications. Great video!
You can go as bare to the bones as you want to with Amiga; you can have samples do bits of the harmony or even melody or percussion to get more out of the Amiga. But doing most of the notes and patterns yourself with samples being instruments instead of bits of song mixed together is more 'musical' 'composing'-like.
The SID trackers on theC64; with the various voices/voice shapes and 'samples' work quite similar. Very accessible, more so than musical notation I reckon.
Being able to use a keyboard actually playing the notes into the tracker is something quite fantastic. Something that never really was quite possible on the C64, although I do have various keyboards for the C64 as well.
One of the many things that attracted me to the Polyend tracker is that it's been inspired by the Amiga apparently. You don't get many standalone tracker units like this, in fact, other than the Dirtywave M8 (which seems to be more like LSDJ for the Gameboy), I haven't seen any other stand-alone tracker.
I think for those who know and love the spirit of the Amiga, things like the Polyend will appeal to them. I do hope they improve the MOD file support. It will appeal to more people that way.
There is that something about the Amiga and it's trackers, it has a raw sense to it. As you say you can go bare to the bones with it as much as you like.
I am intrigued by the SID Trackers as the setout looks more familiar to me as it's very tracker-like. Since doing these videos I have had a few music makers voice their opinions on how they do not like trackers and it doesnt feel so natural, but I personally find them more accessible and they're my natural way of working.
Plus nothing beats the Amiga-esque characteristic which their final result has :o)
Looks very similar to OctaMED V4.0 which was my favourite tracker back in the day. The slide feature allows you to make acid sounds and do that jungle voice distortion thing that was used all over 90s jungle music.
The biggest point would be imho how compatible they are to each other when it comes to Tracker files. And by the way, i LOVE that video thumbnail. Like an 80s advert poster :) ❤
7:26 good choice of chip mod :) Used to love that in the various cracktro's it appeared in!
One of the things that actually put me off the Polyend a bit actually was the 8 channels - while composers like yourself show you can do a lot with 4 channels, trackers haven't been limited to that since the early 90s, and there's some popular demoscene genres that aren't really possible in it. Of course I'm used to OpenMpt, the current project we're working in probably averages 19 channels per swap track. Granted a lot of the time those extra channels are used for things like delay, but also Chords - I feel like they could easily have added 4-note chords(and displayed the name of the chord), though I suppose you could have samples for each chord type and pitch them up/down. It still feels like an artifical limitation, though, which is a problem with a lot of these otherwise quite nifty little boxes.
Your videos have made me interested in it again but the lack of volume slide seems like a weird omission!
I have an MC101 I really want to get to grips with more - obviously I'd prefer a tracker interface as it's what I'm familiar with(though it is ideal for quick drum loops, even moreso than trackers), it only has 4 tracks and it can be fun to work within limits, but near-infinite polyphony. Also has a pretty good sample engine!
I can understand your point of view actually. If you're coming from using multi channel trackers, as you say you're working with 19 channels per track. Then you're going to find Polyend, and especially programs like soundtracker pro II/Protracker etc for that matter. It's only natural.
I think Polyend has been inspired by the Amiga trackers rather than things like MODPlug/OpenMPT and other multi channel ones. I'm used to working with chords that are tied together, as in how they're done on the Amiga, however i've also used 3 channels for chords in any music i've done on OpenMPT or Polyend. I think Polyend might spoil me a little.
It goes to show different something can look if you're approaching it from different viewpoints/backgrounds.
@@MsMadLemon yeah I think part of it though is generally me getting a bit worn out by a lot of fancy 2022 gear having these artifical limitations too!
I do think i'd still probably have a good time with it overall, though, but there's some features they can work on to make it better.
Nice overview... very informative! 😃👍
I have a Darbuka at home since I'm kind of into Sufism/Islamic mysticism and got this idea of making that sort of music after listening to a load of Mercan Dede. Never got far with it so I lent it to my friends kids but I want to take it back soon! It's an egyptian one it sounds pretty nice let me know if you want some samples of it!
That's pretty cool, i'm of Arabic origin so I have access to one also. Thank you for offering though! Also very interesting that you're kinda into Sufism/Islamic mysticism. I'm into the same myself. I like Mercan Dede's album 'SU' I believe it means 'Water' in Turkish, I bought it when I went to Istanbul. I think that's one album that must be had in physical CD form. The artwork is just beautiful.
@@MsMadLemon I'm aware Ms Madija. :) I thought that was really, when telling friends about your vids I described you as "This cool nice Arab lady who smokes hookah while dancing to Amiga music"
That's so cool you're a Mercan Dede fan! My favourite alternates between Journey of a Dervish and Sufi Dreams, I'm someone with Big Anxiety so I like to listen to chill out electronic stuff and the combination with Islamic mysticism(and a Romani folk song on Sufi Dreams??? interesting since I work with Romani IRL, though not Bugagrian or Muslim ones) is really cool for me.
Su is probably my next favourite! I like 800 too though it's not a chillout album so much, since it has a song called "Lullaby for Sweet Lonely CHubby Mermaid" which is one of my favourite song titles ever(and a really cute image, I want to keep the cute chubby mermaid company!!!)
Great video - lovely to see you teach trackers!
Another great video, Maddi! It's possible you can get volume slide by using FX (g) and setting the instrument automation Volume LFO to saw/reverse saw. FX g will set the speed and you can select the LFO shape for the instrument.
Thanks Corey!
Yes, i've been messing with the LFO Variants of the FX commands and so glad someone thought of doing that :o)
I went scrolling after I saw “volume LFO” in the list just in case it hadn’t been brought up! So I’m so glad you brought this up when the video was new, Corey!
Using an LFO to modulate the amplifier envelope in my synth can do an effect similar to “volume glide” (as well as other effects if it’s faster or slower of course), so it immediately stood out to me. I suppose Polyend decided to make their terminology similar to other synths for all the users who are using it to get-into tracking (and the horizontal scroll to emulate a piano roll is obviously the same).
@@kaitlyn__L I've been saving up for a Tracker. Mine will be arriving next week. I can't wait to dive in!!
Took 'the plunge' myself after using Fast Tracker II for some time and it's quite fun to go back to the tracker way of thinking! It still has some quirks (which I hope they iron out through firmware updates) but it's fun to make music with it, that's for sure!
so glad you got one, i love mine. have you tried sequencing your yamaha via midi? polyend can send and recieve midi notes and
the 2 fx lanes can control the sliders on the yamaha.
(in the yamaha manual you can see what midi cc controls under 'midi implementation'
have a nice day!
I sees cat, I clicks like. Interesting. My background is the Amiga 500, but somehow I ended up here looking for a comparison between the Synthstrom Deluge and the Polyend Tracker.
Another great vid ;-) Managed to get a used Polyend Tracker on ebay boxed like new for £350. I'm finding it fun to learn. I'm planning on sampling some sounds I created on my Sonicware ELZ_1. I really think you'd get a kick out of the ELZ_1, it's a great little machine.
It sounds like the volume slide on the Amiga is actually acting like a ramped (sawtooth) LFO, where the X axis is time (freq) and the Y axis is the destination gain (slope up or down on LFO). Just a guess :)
Actually it's an AD envelope but I didn't see that on the menu of the PolyTracker.
if Polyend supported mod format I'd buy one.
it doesn't support mod?!
@@polaris911 well it's just what I've heard, and if true it really surprises me.
I made music on the Amiga or Atari St and could not get into the tracker scene.
Demo scene you played music mods back then and there was some cool graphics and music back in the day.
The tracker guys did make cool music and I admired them all it just wasn't my scene.
You have a lot of cool videos.
Love the various versions of the track you demonstrate on the various systems.
Regarding the Polyend's sound, it can sound closer to other hardware if you use effects like Bitcrusher, Overdrive, Chorus, Equalization, and appropriate Normalization. Bitcrusher and Normalization in particular can get back the louder, crunchier sound of some older software.
I also often Render sections of patterns to a new sample to get sounds I want as a kind of additive synthesis. For example, I might add a little bit of a tom sample played at the same time as a snare to add heft to the snare sound, rendering that to a new snare sample.
But the stand-out advantages of the Polyend are the Fill tool and MIDI tracks. For example, you could simultaneously dedicate some tracks for samples and some for an external MIDI device such as your Yamaha synth. That's useful for allowing synths to generate sounds in full fidelity without relying on short pitch-shifted samples, but giving the freedom to choose when you want to do this or not. The Fill tool saves time by applying changes over entire sections of tracks rather than having to do it manually. The Fill data can be either randomized to "humanize" the song or to spark new ideas, or it can be deliberate such as telling it you want to ramp up/down an effect wherever there is/isn't a note in that track.
Well explained! I enjoyed! Cool tracks!
Next one to try: SunVox - a combination of a tracker and modular synths with a tiny footprint. Works native on Linux too.
Loved the video!
If you know nothing of making music (like me) I found it hard to make something that did not annoy everybody in the house ;-)
I have used Protracker for years to make jingles for a free radio station. (they liked them)
Lovely ❤
I agree, the AMIGA has somewhat tight timing, which is hard to describe. My first tracker was on the A500 Noisetracker 2.x (1990), then Octamed Soundstudio, and it felt always right. Later on the PC much more was possible, but one thing ever was kind of misery, the timing and the latencies. I've been looking for a replacement for Octamed for a long time, all those great MIDI sequencers and that's how I ended up with Renoise which is "the" tracker for the pc and does credit to the AMIGA. The Polyend Tracker also seems a good choice with the charisma of self limitation if it has 8 channels. Enjoyed your video!
Tracker method for me is the only way of making music that makes sense to me. I'm using Renoise on Linux Debian with all kinds of cool vst's amd samples (kxstudio).
Maybe you already know, the Twintris song is called ' We're the devils' ...
Great pick !
I heard the Polyend tracker had issues with the playback of some Amiga modules, did you notice anything ?
Neat comparison. Great video 👍
We used Octamed and the reason we got it coz it was on a coverdisk
good and informative.
Your videos are great!
I'd really like to know what the secret sauce for Amiga/Soundtracker Pro II. I suspect some of it could be the Paula chip's quirks? OpenMPT sounded so flat - I'd love to have things sounding more like Soundtracker Pro II but also I do find the interface a bit harder to decipher! Maybe just try some sort of bitcrusher & vague low pass filter? I used to always lowpass my stuff but probably did it a bit too aggressively.
Thing is, I don't use the Amiga's low pass filter at all, it is quite aggressive and just makes everything feel more muffled. I'm assuming it's the Paula's chip's quirks. There is something about it's sound and I can't quite put my finger on it. someone mentioned that it's a lack of anti-aliasing and to try Polyend with anti aliasing off. I did try and it's not that. i'm quite surprised you cannot get on with Soundtracker Pro II's interface, it might just be set out differently to what you're used to. But it is very straight forward for me (she says having used it for the past 25 years almost)
@@MsMadLemon yeah, I've heard that alright, people tend to prefer it with it off. it depends though, I guess i have weirdly sensitive ears so aliasing not always super fun for me! But I still like the Amiga version a bit better. would love to know the secret sauce! will have to ask around. it almost sounds like there's some sort of compression and EQ going on.
@@SisterRose there’s definitely other filters in the chain, besides the very aggressive user-controllable one in the Amiga, which could be helping. There’s some inherent dynamic range compression going from 16 to 8 bits too though! I suspect one could recreate a lot of the quirks into a stand-alone filter box with enough tinkering, but I’m not sure if it’d be worth all the effort.
Goodness me she's fit.
BE WARY: such a powerful computer in your hands. And it's not a pee_cee
if i understtand it right... try to put command off after the note U wanna slide :) was that it?
ProTracker! Good old times
If using sample-sourced digital oscillators was “not real synthesis”, then the DX7, the D-50, the M1, PPG wave, etc would ALL be “fake synths”! I can only imagine the people saying that were analogue elitists, or just ignorant of how digital synthesis works…
Some use a single-sample as their “oscillator” with analogue filters, some use a longer sample for the “attack” while doing the prior for the rest of the note, some use a really long sample and randomly select a section to loop to get timbral variations, there’s plenty more methods besides. But they ALL involve at least a short sample at the start.
Roland even sourced their waveform samples from their older analogue synths to retain that “Roland sound” for their first Linear Arithmetic synth. So Amiga chiptune (which as you know invented the term!) sourcing their single waves from a real SID is certainly not cheating, or fake, or not real synthesis. Unless they want to call Roland fakers and cheaters too!!
Anyway, yeah, the filters on the Amiga are really nice. And sometimes only being 8-bit (and lower sample rate IIRC?) actually helps as well, can give it a warmer tone, like a low-pass filter can soften and warm-up sound. Plus of course some of those filters are only there to mask artefacts from the lower depth, like quantisation noise, so that’s a double whammy of sweetening the sound.
A lot of those 80s digital synths sounded warm and lush, or thin and metallic, purely by the difference in filters in their output stages (of course some went on to call the latter “digital-sounding”, affecting the public’s perceptions forever) and the difference was extremely similar to your A/B comparison here. I absolutely don’t blame you for preferring the Amiga sound here! There’s some genres where the modplug sound could be better, but for your stuff it’s clear.
Though having said that: I wonder if you built a first-order or second-order variable low pass filter to plug into the computer, if modplug could be made to sound much more Amiga-y. (My gut is the more aggressive second-order option would be closer. Edit 2: I saw your other comment here about the controllable LPF, which is 2nd order I believe, so maybe not! Though there’s definitely other filtering in the chain which helps the Amiga’s sound.) I suppose that’s purely academic though, since there’s little reason for you to do so when the Amiga is sitting right there!
At least the Polyend sounds a lot warmer, though it definitely has that “crisp” sound as well, which isn’t always what you want. Much nicer than the modplug sound though, especially for samples where you actually need the extra resolution to capture their texture (complex brushed drums, or environmental sounds like rustling leaves, for instance).
All in all, wow! It looks like a great product! I feel kinda bad for watching so late, given what that does to the algorithm and all, but alas I’ve been feeling spectacularly un-musical until last week. I might have to see if I can play some of your leads (after transcribing as the notes fly by!) from these tracks :D
Edit: oh yeah, I was curious if you’d tried Renoise at all, since that’s built to be tracker-y (but with support for plugins and other DAW stuff too). You might think it’s too complicated for its own good though, it’s certainly worse than ProTracker in that regard!
When I come across a chick doing a gear review, I automatically give a 👍
This cat knows who's the real star of the show
I was
I was thinking of getting myself one of these and i'm still on the fence
Cute 😍 and Dirtywave m8 for the win 🏆
I’m hoping in light of the Polyend Tracker Mini, that there is a Polyend Tracker 2.
What are your thoughts about the Mini?
Will you be picking up the tracker +?!
I wish, I can't afford it right now but I hope to at some point.
So, why put the whiskey in a thermos?
It's tea
There is nothing comparable to the real amiga. I use Octaned, sampling from FL Studio into my Clarity 16 digitizer. FL studio is (of course) my main daw. Other things like that machine is something weird. Do you want to track music? AMIGA is the only choice.
Re noise is a modern Daw, with tracker style but still a modern PC daw that don't have any smell of what an Amiga tracker is.
@@Sikt "Best" is subject to opinion.
To me i'd rather use Soundtracker Pro 2 on the Amiga and expand on that, rather than use Renoise and MODPlug tracker... Art is not just about the finished product, but about the journey also.
if you look at 'technically best' in everything, life gets very predictable and boring.
@@MsMadLemon I use a lot of music software starting from FL Studio on my PC, then on the Amiga Octamed, Music Studio and the last one I use sometimes is Sonix. I am missing Music X because i forgot it's name and I will start to make something also on this... All of those softwares are good. Your software is more similar to PRO Tracker as I saw. I am trying to learn it to do something there too. Last software I have is Cubase, a very good daw but slower than FL and less intuitive.
So is it possible to load the Amiga tracken Files into the polyend Tracker ?
MOD, Fast Tracker ,XM and so on and playback them as ob a Amiga program?
Not XM, Only MOD and IT.. But it's very hit and miss. Some load but don't sound right, others don't load at all.
@@MsMadLemon Thanx for reply. Well than i need to search for other hardware Trackers. Im searching for something which playback every Amiga Music File
@@nicci_dee8292 If you find a hardware tracker which does that then please let me know, it would be great to have one which does this.
@@MsMadLemon I'll let you know !!
@@MsMadLemon Hey
So i searchd all the web but dont find any hardware trackers which playback any Amiga Mod but i do found a solution. I'll buy two or three laptops. On them i'll Install a customized winuae with workbench which i will use for the classic four channel Mod files. Additionally i will install Open MPT. With this Setup i can create and mix multichannel tracker. files.
This is just an optional setup to my real Amiga DJ Gear which i use on live performances or streams.
Kind regards
Can't fault your passion, wonderful YT page you have produce full on interesting stuff. I’ve been using Linux Mint. Because I enjoy the Milky tracker, I was just wondering what's your opinion would be of it. Anyway's keep on tracking. It is great to pay a visit from time to time. /|\ + > ;8) = 🌈
Madi what is your origins are arabic iranien or indian
and what the origin of your name madija
My origins are Arabic.. My name is Madiha مديحة.. I just spell it with the Spanish spelling online.
@@MsMadLemon thank u Ms Madiha
égyptien and jordan who use your name
Thank u for the info i was curious 😊 to know now i know from where comes your love to drink tea
Cause north african amazigh and égyptien (faraouns) from morocco to egypte and arabs middle east too love to drink tea
but the north african tea amazigh is deffirrent from arabs tea
@@socialengineering2539 you're welcome :o). i'm actually from Iraq originally, but yes Arabic. you're right, it's why i love tea, especially the Arabic tea. I've been to Morocco, Marrakech and Essouira, it is a beautiful place.
@@MsMadLemon your welcome to morocco any time there is lot of cities to visit they are better you have to visit the desert the mountain where simple population the are so peaceful and humble i hope next time if you want to visit morocco with plaisir i will be your guide 😊
Cause my job is near to that but medical side 😊
@@MsMadLemon btw
Marakkech o aMorakkech is amazigh name of the capital of the old amazigh dinasty called almoravids
Mora= land=ⴰⵎⵓⵔ
Kkech= god=ⴽⵓⵛ
land of god= ⴰⵎⵓⵔⴽⵓⵛ
You visited marrakech i think no one told u this info
Essaouira old name Mogador
The city rounded by wall
eu quero um de presente😃