trust me it's NOT bad engineering. It's management/finance getting their snout into every fucking thing. There's no way I'd use a pin to time something like that, that's a corner cut that came straight from the top.
Been a machinist for 47 years full-fledged designer half that time it was a college kid that designed that the software he’s probably using was pro E maybe solid works and the software will tell you if it can handle it structurally fit form and function, but any person with experience will tell you that will not last that will fail one of the comments earlier said they did it to reduce cost. This is true. They design crap like that to save money software told him it’ll work. This also clearly demonstrates that Dave is an expert.
@@icebox829 They're banking on that not happening, which is often the case for anyone buying these trucks new. They're being babied through the warranty.
This is just dumb. Do you understand even the slightest that goes into engine design. I mean down the the chemical combustion and thermal balancing to find cylinder temps? I mean I do. Trust me. This wasn’t the engineers this was a high exec saying “i know right” and made the engineers do it to cut costs.
Unfortunately a place like they'll just tell you to get your ged get in automotive school and come back but theres no guarantees you'll get hired but if you do get hired they have so many trained mechanics they won't have time to train anyone so you will just be there lacky doing the paperwork and cleaning the place up
@@littlefitterfitness3411 you are delusional this ain't the 2000s anymore you can't just walk in in a mechanics shop and say hey can I come work for you and in return can you teach me that don't work anymore
Haven't got time to do it,but have time to do it a gim an send service people out to fix for next 5 years on warranty. Spend another dime, an save million
Use them on my mini bike as well. Whoever designed this was a little bit stupid or it was done on purpose. There's zero way they didn't know this was a weak point.
I feel bad for hard working mechanics, because a newer vehicle is alot harder to work on because they add so much more bullshit and the technicians put bolts in the most fucked up spots. Shout out to y’all though for busting them knuckles to make a living and making it cheaper on us.
@@arfetherussianhe hasn’t . I’m sure Dave and his shop is good but his reviews are a bit low for a pretty well known shop. most of them complaints are sky high prices and absurd waiting times
I'm going into engineering. I'll try to make it easy on y'all. Trust me, lots of young engineers have their heads up their asses and try to do everything by math.
I'm an engineer. I've haven't had the opportunity to work in the auto industry yet. We do take a machine shop class to teach us that just because it works on paper doesn't mean it works in reality. I do all of my vehicles' maintenance and repairs. As we see here, lots of times, it's just bad design that causes problems. After a robust design is made, a "cost" engineer comes along and makes changes to save cost. In many instances, that is how we end up with bad designs. Appliances and residential HVAC are prime examples of this.
I have only seen those pins on a Duramax and the ones i have seen fail were shortly after a water pump replacement. I figure it due to an improperly torqued harmonic balancer bolt
Agreed. That's why they are torqued so tight. I use a 3/4 drive big bar to do the angle portion of the torquing. The pins are for alignment, not holding the balancer in place.
Yes, what a misguided mess. My Duramax at 230,000 no issues, but if ypu read Dieselplace, etc. those boys overstressing their drive train with programmers etc. start bitching about breaking things. Had to quit those sites. Still waiting for my assured "front pump casing failure" that I'm supposed to have had by now ?!?
I’m sure the designer could find a key way better for the design. Find out why they chose that alternative. Mechanics give feedback to engineers. Respect to your work though. Great videos
Its a locator pin, its not supposed to hold the assembly together. If it did hold the assembly together under those forces something either upstream or downstream would break.
The pin is just the timing locator, the power transmission is taken through the friction when the crank bolt is run down, this is somewhat common practice, and can be combined with a diamond coated washer. Its not bad engineering. Adding a keyway can creat an oil leak path if the outer surface of the pulley is used for the dynamic (crank) seal.
That, and it's a way to positively fix the gear without making it so strong that it will destroy something of it gets jammed up. It's far better to sheer that pin and have a gear spin than ruin the entire engine and those parts anyway 😅
@@StarHunter28 did you not read the comment I was replying to? I never said it was going to break, just that if it did the motors gone. Dude thinks if this gear slips that nothing bad will happen.
I know nothing compared to the masters that do this daily. However I love to see comments that show/explain the other side. Just gives you something to look into and make your own mind up.
@@sparkyobrian6417actually a woodruff key won't shear that easily; for decades, lawn mowers broke crankshafts from hitting rocks before somebody got smart enough to use aluminum keys under the flywheel, so the key shears instead of the flywheel snapping off the end of the crankshaft.
The failure is the last person didn't replace and torque the damper bolt properly. Pin is for assembly alignment, the Bolted joint is for keeping it there.
Keys are actually just there for alignment. The friction created when the crank bolt is tightened down is what keeps the gear from spinning. someone probably didn't tighten the crankshaft bolt enough to cause that.
@@joethomas6457if you mod the vehicles drivetrain then you have nobody but yourself to blame if the drivetrain fails. The drivetrain is designed to work with the power and torque from the factory, designing a drivetrain for more power or torque would be wasteful.
Friction is what is used to actually transfer the power in this certain application. But there are several other ways and this one particular problem is basically because there is a very big issue that people have with torquing the crank bolt back down during other maintenance or what not but this gentleman does a great job of explaining it and he also shows another video or to actually that shows what he has done and further and further in the process you should wash them they are really amazing
Though you live in Alaska, there are plenty of folks on here who are very viable teachers. You may spend a lot of time searching for them to find 'em, but they are well worth it.
@@durawins yep and that's why it's better to learn for yourself and adventure on get that money and hey if you need a break you can because you run the show no one else does
I’m the same way, if you have the engine out of the vehicle and you have it torn down, just fix it right and be done with it. Do it right the first time so that there’s never any issues with it on down the road. You’re reputation as a good mechanic is more important than anything
Not bad engineering… it’s profitable engineering. Sadly, if you don’t make a design profitable, you’re not gonna keep your job for long in that industry.
The engineers designed that crankshaft with shear pins to protect the ac compressor clutch from damage in the event of a compressor lockup. The sudden load on the serpentine belt would shear the pins instead if the compressors clutch being torn to threads thereby protecting a valuable part of one of the accessories
Love the way you throw stones at the engineers who designed the engine. The main cause of these "locating" pin failures is when the damper is removed for repairs, then reinstalled, they are not torqued to the proper spec by so called "technicians". These locating pins were never designed to "hold" the gear in place, only to locate the gear in the correct position for timing purposes. It is the torque on the damper that actually holds the gear in place being sandwiched between the shoulder of the crank and damper that holds the load of the driven components. When assembled correctly, and torqued properly, these pins typically do not fail. Maybe do a little research before spouting "quick to judgement" information out to the masses about poor engineering. I've only been in the repair industry for 51 years, have been a ASE Certified Master Technician and Re-Certified Master for 40 of those 51 years, so I've been around a day or two, and when I come across something that doesn't add up in the repair industry, then it's usually something I'm not aware of and I go searching for the correct answer. I don't re-engineer what the engineers have already done like you are doing, I actually look for the correct solution to the failure.
@@tiagoangelo3828 I disagree, in this application, the pin is sufficient when proper torque specs are adhered too on the damper. It is not a shear pin, it is a locating pin only.
You are partially correct. Yes the pin is there for alignment. Yes the friction holds it in place. Yes the techs could have an issue torqueing the bolt because there is a difference between static and dynamic torque )just like static and Dynamic friction) so getting the proper torque with a trque wrench is problematic. I do understand that the bolt is a torque to yield design where the bolt is torqued, marked and then overtightened 90 degrees to apply yield. However, even the factory pins are shown to have shear on them. So the theory of friction hold is good, but time has proven it is not adequate. If that harmonic balancer, or the timing gear slips just a little, it is extremely damaging to the engine. The keyway adds a high frequency balance issue, but a fluid damper or a rebalancing of the crank can take care of it. There is a lot of engineering and theory going on here, but it is better to be safe than sorry and the alignment pins are not the safest option.
@@kwippl4207 Again, I disagree. Everyone wants to be an armchair engineer, but the amount of Duramax engines that are out on the highways and byways, running hundreds of thousands of miles with zero issues dictates that the original design is not flawed. Everyone wants to throw stones at a handful of cases where more than likely there was an outside influence that caused the failure, but they keep saying that the engineering is flawed, and again, I disagree.
I can't believe how a ten cent dowl pin is enough to destroy a whole $15,000 engine! It's hard to imagine that is the Achilles Heel on a Duramax diesel! But once it's fixed in advance the owner will enjoy a million mile service life!
I just wish some of these companies stop knowingly do bad engineering like that anyway that’s one of the reasons why I like my old 91.5 dodge this is six in a row.Jim from Kennerdell, Pennsylvania
Empire sells a pin you can drill and pin the Harmonic balancer to the crank 2x. Even better if you I stall a fluidamner upgrading the Harmonic balancer.
I love it when non-engineers say bad engineering without understanding the process used to validate the design. I’m certain the original key met design criteria, and probably sheared due to excessive torque at the shaft, as designed.
Still the best diesel truck you can get though. These things rarely fail and its only when people tune and launch them frequently. Mine pulls just under 26,000lbs 90% of its life with no problems
Do those pins usually break, or is it when you add big power when they go? I understand the key way is better, but is it necessary in stock to light mods (exhaust, intake)
this is known as a sacrificial part and is a designed point of failure. With this design, just the pin will shear if excess load is applied instead of the entire gear and/or shaft breaking. Think of it like the mechanical version of an electrical fuse.
The pins are engineered to serve as shear pins. It's like an electric fuse. If anything happens above its torque, it shears off. With the keyway, the torque limit break is raised too high.
Good engineering, good engineering, how do you think car dealers make money, car manufacturers are in each other's pockets to continue to make money....
Warranty: engine coverage up to 20,000 miles 20,001 miles later: Enigne blows, transmission is destroyed beyond repair, breaks fail, door hinges break at welding, paint starts peeling, wheel bearing gives out, fuel system stops working, rear end locks up, air bags randomly deployed at a standstill. ALL while driving and caring for it like it’s a rare piece of machinery and getting oil changes early to prevent any damage.
*_That's normally fone by design to prevent further damage from happening and they are called sheer pins which have a exact amount of load pressure before the snap._*
This is what we call a “mechanical fuse” the idea is the pin fails before the force gets transferred to something more critical and causes serious problems. You have now done the equivalent of jamming wire into your fusebox to keep the fuse from blowing.
As a design engineer for 30 years, I can safely say that the pin costs alot less than the key way. So as long as it works it is actually better engineering, if it breaks, it was probably abused and gone beyond its design spec
Does cutting into that shaft make it any weaker? Or is it just a solid shaft? I don't know much about that. But I am learning so much from these videos !!!
Nevermind haha. I saw in another video it is hollow. But I guess you don't slice too deep into it. Those pins however are a horrible idea 😂. With all the heat and pressure trying to move a 4000 lb vehicle. No wonder they just snap off
Most things have a braking point, some have manufactured braking points engineered into the build to keep from completely destroying the build, much like snow blowers have sheer pins on the rotating blades, I hardly think it is bad engineering, I tend to lean toward the monetary management of building it as cheaply as possible.
But the 2 pins cost less than keyway. We saved 25¢ per engine!
Exactly and it's not the engineer who cares about saving that quarter.
Yeah exactly twenty-five cents * a million that's a lot of money saved in the money that can be saved is more money for a CEO
Now think about the warranty repairs.. YIKES
Aaaand we make more money selling replacement parts!
@@jakehanneman6956it'll most likely last right up until the warranty is over. Planned obsolescence.
Bro yelled at that engineering like it was a misbehaving dog
They are.
⬆️ what he said
No responsibility no accountability
trust me it's NOT bad engineering. It's management/finance getting their snout into every fucking thing.
There's no way I'd use a pin to time something like that, that's a corner cut that came straight from the top.
Been a machinist for 47 years full-fledged designer half that time it was a college kid that designed that the software he’s probably using was pro E maybe solid works and the software will tell you if it can handle it structurally fit form and function, but any person with experience will tell you that will not last that will fail one of the comments earlier said they did it to reduce cost. This is true. They design crap like that to save money software told him it’ll work. This also clearly demonstrates that Dave is an expert.
That’s what they call failure by design.
Planned obsolescence
Failure by stupidity, not all engineer are created equal.
Lol
Yeah then you can't get the parts so you have to either get something used from a scrap yard or go buy a new vehicle. 😅
Yup 😂 Apple does that as well.
They don't care about anything so long as it gets through the warranty period.
With out a load no less. You use that truck to it’s rated capacity it likely won’t make it.
@@icebox829 They're banking on that not happening, which is often the case for anyone buying these trucks new. They're being babied through the warranty.
This is just dumb. Do you understand even the slightest that goes into engine design. I mean down the the chemical combustion and thermal balancing to find cylinder temps? I mean I do. Trust me. This wasn’t the engineers this was a high exec saying “i know right” and made the engineers do it to cut costs.
This would defeat literally everything we learn and the person who had a PE that signed off in that is also liable for repercussions.
@@zexcthd5519- PE ?
Man I'd like to come work in this guy's shop just for the education in engine building and machining
Plus his shop is in one of the nicest cities (in my opinion) in Utah.
Unfortunately a place like they'll just tell you to get your ged get in automotive school and come back but theres no guarantees you'll get hired but if you do get hired they have so many trained mechanics they won't have time to train anyone so you will just be there lacky doing the paperwork and cleaning the place up
@@BlargeAdamassuming? He probably has a bad ass team behind him and if smart would be willing to train someone willing to put in the time
@@littlefitterfitness3411 you are delusional this ain't the 2000s anymore you can't just walk in in a mechanics shop and say hey can I come work for you and in return can you teach me
that don't work anymore
@@ryanalexander984there’s only one city in Utah
That's what you get when the bean counters get involved.
"Look, we saved $1 mill. in production costs"
"& it cost us $20 mill. in recalls" 😮
“Recalls are somebody else’s problem/department. It’ll show MY department saved $1m, so I’ll get the promotion!”
@@roadwarrior144until the company goes out of business... take some accountability
@@NateColman You’ll get no argument from me.
Haven't got time to do it,but have time to do it a gim an send service people out to fix for next 5 years on warranty. Spend another dime, an save million
This is typically the ford solution if we're being honest😂
This is why this shop is beautiful, busy and full of expensive equipment. Every town needs a professional shop like this. Fix it right, fix it once.
Yep, do it right the first time and be done with it !!!!💯!
As a machinist... i agree
*** wow this is the most likes I ever got...thank u everyone!!!***
As a fellow machinist I have to say engineers are the most educated stupid people on the planet.
As a machinist I concur
As a doctor, I, too, concur .
As a human male. Dito
Have another friend!
All engineers should be in the field atleast 3 years before even starting school.
a bit like doctors ,but back to front
And all mechanics should go through a corporate NPI program.
@D2O2 all mechanics should be in the field for 3 years also before they can even take a test for licensing
@@9riversLicensing? Where are you from that your mechanics are licensed?
@@D2O2 certification s are the same thing
Key way stock would definitely keep it in place. We use on electric motor shafts
Use them on my mini bike as well. Whoever designed this was a little bit stupid or it was done on purpose. There's zero way they didn't know this was a weak point.
I like this guys overkill and attention to detail. I can’t afford a new motor, but if I could, I would go to this guy this guy is awesome.
As a 30-year veteran of working on cars I totally fucking agree with you😊😊😊
I feel bad for hard working mechanics, because a newer vehicle is alot harder to work on because they add so much more bullshit and the technicians put bolts in the most fucked up spots. Shout out to y’all though for busting them knuckles to make a living and making it cheaper on us.
What kind of agree ?
I trust this guy with my car.
Really? Has he done a car of yours ?
@@arfetherussianhe hasn’t . I’m sure Dave and his shop is good but his reviews are a bit low for a pretty well known shop. most of them complaints are sky high prices and absurd waiting times
@@Justvn4thGenTL Right, fast, or cheap. Pick ONE!
this is why i work on my own tk
People should be Mechanics before they become ingeneers
*Engineer* but I agree with you
Y si si se volvieran uno mismo
I'm going into engineering. I'll try to make it easy on y'all. Trust me, lots of young engineers have their heads up their asses and try to do everything by math.
And engineers should come before shareholders but here we are! 😂
I'm an engineer. I've haven't had the opportunity to work in the auto industry yet. We do take a machine shop class to teach us that just because it works on paper doesn't mean it works in reality.
I do all of my vehicles' maintenance and repairs. As we see here, lots of times, it's just bad design that causes problems.
After a robust design is made, a "cost" engineer comes along and makes changes to save cost. In many instances, that is how we end up with bad designs. Appliances and residential HVAC are prime examples of this.
I have only seen those pins on a Duramax and the ones i have seen fail were shortly after a water pump replacement. I figure it due to an improperly torqued harmonic balancer bolt
Agree, that pin is only there for installation position, correctly torqued bolt is what holds the pully inpace by friction!
Agreed. That's why they are torqued so tight. I use a 3/4 drive big bar to do the angle portion of the torquing. The pins are for alignment, not holding the balancer in place.
Buy new bolts for critical parts because they stretch when torqued.
I still have the factory pins on my lly. Used an arp bolt and a big ass torque wrench and she's still holding at 400k
Yes, what a misguided mess. My Duramax at 230,000 no issues, but if ypu read Dieselplace, etc. those boys overstressing their drive train with programmers etc. start bitching about breaking things. Had to quit those sites. Still waiting for my assured "front pump casing failure" that I'm supposed to have had by now ?!?
It’s not bad engineering. It is designed with that in mind
Just because it is designed that way doesn't make the engineering better?
it is designed with economy of manufacture in mind.
I’m sure the designer could find a key way better for the design. Find out why they chose that alternative. Mechanics give feedback to engineers. Respect to your work though. Great videos
@@kjherms369 some pins are supposed to break. This prevents damage to other parts and a pin is quick to replace.
Its a locator pin, its not supposed to hold the assembly together. If it did hold the assembly together under those forces something either upstream or downstream would break.
Engineers are always trying to make sure you find a bettet way to make it last longer.
Dave your the Best Engineer.
The pin is just the timing locator, the power transmission is taken through the friction when the crank bolt is run down, this is somewhat common practice, and can be combined with a diamond coated washer. Its not bad engineering. Adding a keyway can creat an oil leak path if the outer surface of the pulley is used for the dynamic (crank) seal.
That, and it's a way to positively fix the gear without making it so strong that it will destroy something of it gets jammed up. It's far better to sheer that pin and have a gear spin than ruin the entire engine and those parts anyway 😅
@@mitchelldake7203if that gear slips the valves hit the pistons and it's game over for that engine
@@evandrewmartinez1seen million mile trucks without it slipping, so I'm not worried.
@@StarHunter28 did you not read the comment I was replying to? I never said it was going to break, just that if it did the motors gone. Dude thinks if this gear slips that nothing bad will happen.
I know nothing compared to the masters that do this daily. However I love to see comments that show/explain the other side. Just gives you something to look into and make your own mind up.
You are an outstanding and very competent mechanic.
those shear pins are carefully engineered to protect the gearbox. that is good engineering.
Nope, they are designed to sheer at a specific time.
@@JF32304yeah, right before your gearbox does
@@buffalowtWhat "gearbox" are you talking about?
I'd trust this man to fix my truck if problems ever arise with it. He knows exactly what he's talking about and what/how to go about fixing it.
It's a shear pin better that breaks them whatever is binding up. It shows you have an issue somewhere else
I was wondering the same thing. Maybe designed to fail before something much larger fails, but that may not make sense here.
a proper sized woodruff key would shear also, but yea im sure you are correct in the intended design
@@sparkyobrian6417actually a woodruff key won't shear that easily; for decades, lawn mowers broke crankshafts from hitting rocks before somebody got smart enough to use aluminum keys under the flywheel, so the key shears instead of the flywheel snapping off the end of the crankshaft.
The failure is the last person didn't replace and torque the damper bolt properly. Pin is for assembly alignment, the Bolted joint is for keeping it there.
Yes and no, when they sheer they take the engine with it. This is tied to the cam timing, when that's sheered timing is off an engine blows up.
Engineers have been the mechanics nemesis since the first car.
Keys are actually just there for alignment. The friction created when the crank bolt is tightened down is what keeps the gear from spinning. someone probably didn't tighten the crankshaft bolt enough to cause that.
really. so it's fine for guys running totally stock and not abusive.
@@joethomas6457if you mod the vehicles drivetrain then you have nobody but yourself to blame if the drivetrain fails.
The drivetrain is designed to work with the power and torque from the factory, designing a drivetrain for more power or torque would be wasteful.
@@buffalowt I like stock
As an old mechanic U people are the CREATOR ❤ 👌🙏 🙏 🙏 Awesome 🇺🇸 USA 🇺🇸
You're missing the point of an engineer. They're not there to design the part to last. They're there to design the part to fail just after warranty.
That is a fact. Paper blocker rings in manual transmissions
I like how the guys on CZcams are always better engineers than the people who designed the vehicles.
Thats for alignment during installation, not to hold it in place
Then what holds it in place? I don't see any keyways in it.
Friction is what is used to actually transfer the power in this certain application. But there are several other ways and this one particular problem is basically because there is a very big issue that people have with torquing the crank bolt back down during other maintenance or what not but this gentleman does a great job of explaining it and he also shows another video or to actually that shows what he has done and further and further in the process you should wash them they are really amazing
@@mriopelle33I don't think they want to be washed but I will double check!
@@williamsantiago7303fkkn magic
@@quicksnipes2393correct but on such a pulley one would want more than a locating pin
The Dunning Kruger effect sums this up perfectly. Please for anyone who hasn’t heard of it before please look it up.
I’d intern here or volunteer on my days off if I could. Just to be able to learn more and get the experience. Unfortunately I live in Alaska. 😂
No way same I live in Alaska too🤣🔥
I do not live in Alaska, farewell Alaska gang . 😢
Though you live in Alaska, there are plenty of folks on here who are very viable teachers. You may spend a lot of time searching for them to find 'em, but they are well worth it.
Unfortunately most shops don’t have the time to teach someone what takes 20 years to learn
@@durawins yep and that's why it's better to learn for yourself and adventure on get that money and hey if you need a break you can because you run the show no one else does
I’m the same way, if you have the engine out of the vehicle and you have it torn down, just fix it right and be done with it. Do it right the first time so that there’s never any issues with it on down the road. You’re reputation as a good mechanic is more important than anything
The pin is only supposed to be for assembly I think, friction from tightening the bolt is what holds stuff from spinning
And....uhhh ummmm ok
Ahhh Noooo!
That is what im wondering. Is that actually a known problem?
Does not makit a good idea.
Excellent craftsmanship 😎
Not bad engineering… it’s profitable engineering. Sadly, if you don’t make a design profitable, you’re not gonna keep your job for long in that industry.
@@Banthisyoutube couldn’t agree more!
The engineers designed that crankshaft with shear pins to protect the ac compressor clutch from damage in the event of a compressor lockup. The sudden load on the serpentine belt would shear the pins instead if the compressors clutch being torn to threads thereby protecting a valuable part of one of the accessories
Bet the guy that approved this design thought it was good engineering in his head....it saved them a whole 3.27 cents an engine! 😂
It's a Korean engine .. what do you want
Seen something similar with 6.0 gm motor twice two different times. Sheared the camshaft keyway/pin.
And some new engine come with no keyway.
Yes. You can literally loosen the crank bolt and tighten it right back up. Then start the engine and ruin it.
It is good to do research before working on it.
I totally agree with you. Give them hell they need people like you in the engineering department😂
Love the way you throw stones at the engineers who designed the engine. The main cause of these "locating" pin failures is when the damper is removed for repairs, then reinstalled, they are not torqued to the proper spec by so called "technicians". These locating pins were never designed to "hold" the gear in place, only to locate the gear in the correct position for timing purposes. It is the torque on the damper that actually holds the gear in place being sandwiched between the shoulder of the crank and damper that holds the load of the driven components. When assembled correctly, and torqued properly, these pins typically do not fail. Maybe do a little research before spouting "quick to judgement" information out to the masses about poor engineering. I've only been in the repair industry for 51 years, have been a ASE Certified Master Technician and Re-Certified Master for 40 of those 51 years, so I've been around a day or two, and when I come across something that doesn't add up in the repair industry, then it's usually something I'm not aware of and I go searching for the correct answer. I don't re-engineer what the engineers have already done like you are doing, I actually look for the correct solution to the failure.
AGREE!!! 😀
You still say typically... A pin can be used in shear forces, but it's not the correct part to use..
@@tiagoangelo3828 I disagree, in this application, the pin is sufficient when proper torque specs are adhered too on the damper. It is not a shear pin, it is a locating pin only.
You are partially correct. Yes the pin is there for alignment. Yes the friction holds it in place. Yes the techs could have an issue torqueing the bolt because there is a difference between static and dynamic torque )just like static and Dynamic friction) so getting the proper torque with a trque wrench is problematic. I do understand that the bolt is a torque to yield design where the bolt is torqued, marked and then overtightened 90 degrees to apply yield. However, even the factory pins are shown to have shear on them. So the theory of friction hold is good, but time has proven it is not adequate. If that harmonic balancer, or the timing gear slips just a little, it is extremely damaging to the engine. The keyway adds a high frequency balance issue, but a fluid damper or a rebalancing of the crank can take care of it. There is a lot of engineering and theory going on here, but it is better to be safe than sorry and the alignment pins are not the safest option.
@@kwippl4207 Again, I disagree. Everyone wants to be an armchair engineer, but the amount of Duramax engines that are out on the highways and byways, running hundreds of thousands of miles with zero issues dictates that the original design is not flawed. Everyone wants to throw stones at a handful of cases where more than likely there was an outside influence that caused the failure, but they keep saying that the engineering is flawed, and again, I disagree.
Excellent diagnosis chase 😮
Mechanics vs Engineers longest cold war in history😂😂😂
in my opinion one of the best motors ever made
very cool. make things better. i am all about reliability
I can't believe how a ten cent dowl pin is enough to destroy a whole $15,000 engine! It's hard to imagine that is the Achilles Heel on a Duramax diesel! But once it's fixed in advance the owner will enjoy a million mile service life!
Same thing with GM 6L80E transmission -- a 5 dollar pin destroys a $5500 dollar trans.... On a 70k truck....
The hole for the pin is an easy drill job. To cut the keyway is a much more expensive machining operation cost, but obviously very important.
Thanks for sharing the truth.
Still driving my 2-71 Datsun 521 trucks with out issue.
Accountants “Brilliant Engineering BRILLIANT ENGINEERING!”
Nice watching a genuine guy ❤
You Guys are the BEST !!!
The engineering team was a lawnmower team i bet cheaply made 😅😅😅lovely to see a true machines team that knows what to do. ❤❤❤
I just wish some of these companies stop knowingly do bad engineering like that anyway that’s one of the reasons why I like my old 91.5 dodge this is six in a row.Jim from Kennerdell, Pennsylvania
Empire sells a pin you can drill and pin the Harmonic balancer to the crank 2x. Even better if you I stall a fluidamner upgrading the Harmonic balancer.
I love it when non-engineers say bad engineering without understanding the process used to validate the design. I’m certain the original key met design criteria, and probably sheared due to excessive torque at the shaft, as designed.
Engineers are at the mercy of the sales department.
Those motors are stimulating the economy of central Utah,look at the bright side Dave
Still the best diesel truck you can get though. These things rarely fail and its only when people tune and launch them frequently. Mine pulls just under 26,000lbs 90% of its life with no problems
Do those pins usually break, or is it when you add big power when they go? I understand the key way is better, but is it necessary in stock to light mods (exhaust, intake)
You should see the check balls in the piston squirters that stick shut and cause pistons to melt.
Great work guys big respect
The older Saturn 4 bangers sheer that same pin all the time.
About time jimmy wang yang gets the love he deserves
this is known as a sacrificial part and is a designed point of failure. With this design, just the pin will shear if excess load is applied instead of the entire gear and/or shaft breaking. Think of it like the mechanical version of an electrical fuse.
"That's my point folks"
While holding a point 😂
It looks kind of like crackhead engineering brought to you by some of the finest motor building companies in America😂
No no. Engineers are always right and know everything
The pins are engineered to serve as shear pins. It's like an electric fuse. If anything happens above its torque, it shears off. With the keyway, the torque limit break is raised too high.
It's actually good engineering. It maximizes profit and runs just long enough.
Good engineering, good engineering, how do you think car dealers make money, car manufacturers are in each other's pockets to continue to make money....
they are shear pins… a lot easier to replace it than re-do the shaft.
I love this shop
Damn, i cant imagine the damage that would do.
I love this man.
It's engineered for that purpose, to keep the owners in the parts department and to improve the new vehicle cycle
Mate you should be designing motors built to last nothing less 👍nice work 👏
Every beginner tool maker in the country knows it's always a key way. Never a dow pin.
Warranty: engine coverage up to 20,000 miles
20,001 miles later: Enigne blows, transmission is destroyed beyond repair, breaks fail, door hinges break at welding, paint starts peeling, wheel bearing gives out, fuel system stops working, rear end locks up, air bags randomly deployed at a standstill. ALL while driving and caring for it like it’s a rare piece of machinery and getting oil changes early to prevent any damage.
*_That's normally fone by design to prevent further damage from happening and they are called sheer pins which have a exact amount of load pressure before the snap._*
That's definitely putting it mildly. Crazy Ness.
Very good work
This is the type of shop i want to build my engine 🤘
This is what we call a “mechanical fuse” the idea is the pin fails before the force gets transferred to something more critical and causes serious problems. You have now done the equivalent of jamming wire into your fusebox to keep the fuse from blowing.
You are right sir
Tipical modern engineering.
Cummins used that pin crap on the 5.9 and it messed up a great deal of engines in the past!! That and the killer pin in the gear train housing.
ISUZU diesel engine design. Facts.
Automobile engineers are hating this mechanic calling them on all their junk design
That’s incredible!
Keyway is the way. VW knew.
designing it it was like a Simpsons episode where Homer spills his Pepsi all over the nuclear power plant console
As a design engineer for 30 years, I can safely say that the pin costs alot less than the key way. So as long as it works it is actually better engineering, if it breaks, it was probably abused and gone beyond its design spec
We see your point boss
This is why GM has had a problem for a while specially the 6.6 Duramax Diesel with that damn damper pin instead of a key way
Some school somewhere is teaching these guys that that is sufficient and I see it on motorcycles and jet ski
You want something that lasts forever..become a diamond jeweler
Scolding them mugs like a puppy lol😂
You can thank the bean counters for this.
Does cutting into that shaft make it any weaker? Or is it just a solid shaft? I don't know much about that. But I am learning so much from these videos !!!
Nevermind haha. I saw in another video it is hollow. But I guess you don't slice too deep into it. Those pins however are a horrible idea 😂. With all the heat and pressure trying to move a 4000 lb vehicle. No wonder they just snap off
Most things have a braking point, some have manufactured braking points engineered into the build to keep from completely destroying the build, much like snow blowers have sheer pins on the rotating blades, I hardly think it is bad engineering, I tend to lean toward the monetary management of building it as cheaply as possible.