I'm going to say this again I think one of the most important things to make a support feel rewarding is SFX it's astonishing how good people feel when a support SFX sounds amazing when they heal! This is also probably why people love to play Ana so much it's not only for her utility and game play but you feel the impact of healing teammates with a punchy heal sound!
Ana's biotic rifle has the best healing sound design in ow2 simply because it rises in pitch when you hit successive heals on teammates, GODDAMN what a way to skyrocket the happy hormones in my brain
I remember i took a long break from overwatch and saw baptiste and tried playing him. genuinely the most appealing thing was the noise his healing made lmao
If we expect for the tank to take all that cc in the face, why not change tank passive and instead of knockcack reduction, it reduces all forms of cc with like 50%
Or you get successive CC resistance so that more than one ability used on you gets reduced effect. Like say you get slept, for the next 5 seconds any non-damaging ability used on you gets its effect halved. Then if a third ability is used within 5 seconds after the second, it gets a quarter of the normal effect. So you could get slept, then antied but it either only lasts half as long or only has 50% healing reduction, then you get shattered but get back up almost instantly. Individual CCs would still be just as effective and single supports could still protect themselves against tanks, but stacking on constant debuffs, stuns, slows, and other status effects would just get diminishing returns.
The internal healing change would likely be coded simmilarly to the Zarya bubble having a period of time where if a target has just received it then they can't get a second one
its easy, i suggested something for supports overall on reddit where you have a saturation point after which heals become less effective. but yeah as soon as the heal lands it adds a condition that has a timer which we cant see that incoming heals check for when they connect and would adjust if true or false etc. I aso added that a visual effect be implemented to the target that only the support can see to let them know to stop healing that target and do something else
The only thing I massively disagree with is the boost change. It makes sense for Moira and Illari to have the cooldowns on their healing, because they generally heal a lot, have abilities that also heal a lot, and most importantly: they have things they can do while not healing. What're you supposed to do with this Mercy change if no one on your team needs healing, but your boost is on "cooldown" ? You don't have that problem on similar characters because the answer is right there. You deal damage. Mercy doesn't have that same option like those other characters do, so it doesn't make sense to balance that ability the same way the others are balanced.
Also they changed Ana's projectile size while unscoped because they nerfed her damage/healing. It was a compensatory buff that I honestly think should stay. It's only a .1 size increase
that’s a fair point, but also i can’t really think of any other way to incentivize mercy players to lean into the more frantic playstyle. you have to almost force healing to be a necessity somehow or else boosting behind walls is always gonna be the most efficient way to play mercy. this would be less of an issue if her pistol was reworked like the idea mentioned in the video, though, because then it would be pretty consistent (albeit less than stellar) damage
@@defaultdan7923Maybe something like a dropoff after a certain time where the maximum damage boost is the same as it is now but drops down to 10% or something if you stick with the same target for too long? It might encourage moving around more. I also like the idea of db damage doing dot dmg like Ana primary though that might make the healing creep worse
I love the idea of Valkyrie as an ability to amplify mercy’s kit. Rez can be gone or moved to the ult Most mercy’s don’t care for rez if it means we get a more consistent and or fun/ impactful ability
For Moira - what if they leaned more into her life-steal role? Maybe she could put orbs on her teammates and as the Moira does damage it heals your teammates that have the orb. For example if you put an orb on 3 teammates the healing is divided among them, where as if only 1 teammate has the orb they would get more healing as Moira did damage
i love the healing change where she heals more at the begining but less the more she keeps healing the same target , that idea is amazing and i wish they acctually see this and do something similar if not straight up copy paste it
I had an idea for Mercy years ago that you give her staff an "overheat" mechanic, which locks you out completely for a few seconds. The closer you push it towards "overheating" the higher the healing or damage boost you get, but they would be on separate meters, healing targets would lower the damage boost "heat" and damage boosting would lower the healing "heat" Neglecting healing or damage boosts for long periods of time would lead to the staff healing/boosting low amounts, this would mean that you have to balance using both aspects to get the most out of her while also doing it at the right time.
I like this but I would add the ability to let one of the meters overheat on someone. The over heat would give the target a lingering less powerful version of the effect that overheated but in return locks you out of using that beam for a few seconds. It would just add to the fun of having choices in the way you play her. You would be doing a balancing act most the time with her to keep both beams at optimal potency but also having the choice to let one overheat for another beneficial effect but needs to be done at the right times. You could overheat damage boost on your DPS and fly to your tank to give some emergency healing. Providing mercy the ability to help out two targets at once but at the cost of her entire ability momentarily. Or let's say you're about to die so you purposely overheat one of the beams on your target so that even though you died..you're still helping the remaining teammate and that's your reward for balancing the meters so well
@@dazzlingdecay5337 Actually not a bad idea, though I do have to wonder: how would her ultimate affect the overheat mechanic? I genuinely curious, would you prefer it to prevent overheating allowing Mercy to maintain maximum output of a certain type for a bit at the cost of flexibility (not being able to switch to healing while maintaining a damage amp aura) or something else?
For the damage boost idea I think making it boost the rate of fire and movement speed would work quite well. Make it a sort of Kiriko ult that only applies to one target and needs mercy focused on it. It would still maintain Mercy's identity as a character that increases damage while not having the problem of damage boost. The real problem with damage boost has never been damage output, but the fact that it's a burst of damage. Boosting the fire rate would allow it to be more powerful in a lot more situations, but it would not have the frustration if dealing with a potential one shot for the receiving end. It also makes it feel more rewarding as you can feel an increased rate of fire as a Mercy, but not the damage boost.
I wonder if it could work like during GA's actual activation, her healing beam being boosted in response, and lower the numbers when GA isnt active, so itd be an implementation of that one bullet point for Angelic Boost
I think it’d be cool if lw had an option to choose between two platforms (like how Moira can choose which orb to deploy). When pressing shift, two options would pop up: the first one is the typical elevator platform he already has, and the second one should be a bouncy platform; like how certain maps have those green pads you can jump on. I think this would be a cool option to utilize if your entire team wants to go to high ground that way everyone can use it instead of only having one platform that only you and certain hitscan heroes can use.
I feel like these are definitely strong ideas all around! One critique I do have however as I don’t love the complete removal of aoe from bap and Moria as I feel it makes them more dynamic compared to other supports so I’d still like to retain that in some elements of there kit
Personally I don't see the interest of making or a normal projectile, it sucks all the unicness of the ability out of her kit, and make her feel worst. If you want your character to be very aim intensive, any character would be more rewarding than Moira in that aspect, just by the nature of her kit. Moira's identity is all in the decision making, the fact that you always have to choose between two things and that what we should be pushing the character to be. This and making her more synergistic with other supports and heroes in general. Making things more aim intensive at all cost does not solve any fundamental of the issue with any of the hero, it just make things less unic to cater to a part of the community to which the kit was clearly not for. If you want your character to reward aim, you'll never pick a character like Moira, or Sombra, or Mercy or whoever is next on the "make it a skill shot" craze.
About the effects, I think it's a good idea to give her orbs different effects but it needs to be deliberate and thoughtful, aiming toward what you would want the character to be, how you want her to fit within the Overwatch cast. I think that's really the difficulty here, finding effects that are unic enough, rewarding enough, and that play with who Moira is as a character, what is she all about.
@@artimist0315Her "identity" is so bland that basically every support does what her entire identity is and more. I think everyone believes that every character should take some skill and the one Spilo came up with would not even ruin her "identity".
@@LeatherNinja Again no one is forcing you to play Moira, she is a relatively easy hero mechanically in a game where most heroes are pretty intensive in that aspect, allowing for a number of players to have a hero that let them begin playing more easily. The identity of letting newer fps player have fun and learn the game with an easier hero is already a good reason for her to exist. And again skill is not measured by the accuracy of your shots or the number of buttons you press, most good players agree that lending a good anti-nade takes skill but it's definitely not hard to aim. Where I agree that her kit lacks an identity is in what she brings in term of utility and playstyle, Unlike some of the other supports like lucio, Ana or Zen she doesn't really create openings that allow her team to follow up. But that's clearly not by making her kit "more aim intensive" that we will solve that, she will just end up like symmetra with a less unic feeling to her where the more aim intensive kit is only a distraction without fundamentally increasing her skill ceiling. I think giving her primary fire a weakening effect like a healing reduction, a damage reduction, a "trapping mechanics" or a discord effect and giving her secondary fire a complementary effect would lead to more complex decision making with her mode of fire, lead her to play more with her team and reward a more deliberate use of her kit.
Yo spilo, nice to see you booming up on youtube. My suggestion about bap lamp is to leave it as is, except that it does not work against melee damage. This would mean that stuff like rein hammer swings, genji blade and the 30 damage from melee go through. The main issue is that a simple damage reduction for a relatively small area effect does not feel impactful at all. This would make the ability still exceptional in ranged fights and poke, but adds counterplay for heroes that are already struggling like rein and genji. It also wins lore wise, since the immortality field would now be a portable dva defense matrix instead of "magic" that prevents you from dying.
Watching the video, he talked with Mercy players and non-Mercy players when coming up with changes. I like that Spilo is trying to remove the "Us vs Them" mentality alot of players try to make up between Mercy mains and the rest of OW
@@shineyydesigns7696 tbh I like what he's cooking for Mercy and Moira, especially Moira. I like the idea of a support that encourages teammates to gang onto whichever person has the lifesteal debuff is a really interesting idea (not like Zen tho, Discord is a bit much)
@@ShadowLady1 Tbf, it is warranted. Out of every character in OW, Mercy mains have had the most stigma and toxicity since launch. People hating how Mercy plays, saying Mercy takes no skill all the time, the sexist takes that just get added on. No other character has that much stigma around it. Yeah Torb or Sym might get turret complaints but nobody says Torb mains suck because they're all men.
Lifeweaver does have an option to auto charge your healing blossoms in his settings. Also after a second of holding your fully charged blossom you will be slowed, which encourages not holding on to it and actually being more productive.
I love a lot of the cooking you did in this video on almost every hero, would be interested to see how it'd play out in game, but I'm sad to not see the annoyance of lifeweaver doing things like pulling people out of pins/gravs/sig flux. I think LW pulls should work almost like fade where he can't pull people out of 'active' abilities. Pin is already really hard to get at all, having someone pulled off me as I fly off the map is unfun.
Just something on the LW rework from someone who has 120 hours on him: - Keep his hitbox the same the added 225 is a great benefit as you can tank quiet a few things (and making his hitbox smaller will make him even more unkillable) - Love the ideas of the needles exploding and petal elevation controls - Maybe instead of increasing his dash range lower the dash heal but make Weaver overall just a little bit faster (+10%) - Keep the tree, as its apart of the fantasy they are going for with the character of a naturalist
Wouldn't making Lifeweaver faster in conjunction to having a dash have almost the same effect as giving him a smaller hitbox? (Making him harder to shoot at)
Set right click healing and lifegrip on aim instead of targeting to increase the skill floor and potentially increase the max right click healing output to increase the skill ceiling, preferably through HOT like Spilo said. Remove the short immortality on lifegrip to allow counterplay and then lower the cooldown a bit. Give more flexibility to petal platform in terms of the movements it can do but reduce its hp by a good margin. That's my take, what do you think ?
@@user-cy6xl3vd3f I think he desperately needs more damage on his thorns or something no more heal buffs. Giving more flexibility on petal is a good idea as well. Lifegrip needs two uses though right now its way to reactive. I had an idea where you could use it as a pseudo Zarya bubble or as a regular pull, but you needed to choose which one not both.
Like the ideas. But one thing about the Mercy boost and cooldown reduction. I think it would really annoy me if I don't know wich team mates have abilities on cooldown, so there should be information shown about that when you boost someone.
I actually kinda liked that one patch, can't recall if it was april fools or experimental or what, where moira could throw her orbs and then stop them in place. it added an interesting area denial aspect and healing station aspect that I felt like with some iteration could give her skill expression beyond bouncing it into a small room with someone
yooo, Angelic Haste very cool, and the healing resource thing is a slippery slope, if you buff the single target heal for the initial few seconds, it would lea into the healing issue we already have with support in general. Like the idea of swapping around her rez and valk, a skill shot aoe rez as an ult is a good halfway point with old ult and new rez, and the valk as a reworked cd would be sweet as a parrelel to lucio amp
I have a lot of ideas on how to change the supports so I'll just list a few for each you covered in this video. Mercy: I had the same decay idea and "halo" idea lol. Otherwise I think her health could be reduced from 200 to 175 like Widow which would further emphasize movement when combined with the other changes and give bit more variety to hero health that I think would be neat. Moira: Also had vaguely similar ideas with Moira. Instead of the accuracy damage change I'd give her damage falloff like a hitscan character while reducing her max range to about 16 meters, with the self heal also being proportional to range and nerfed overall to a max of 18 per second. Then for utility there's an idea that I got from her voicelines while doing damage for a passive I call "Parasitic Vitality" which would be sort of an inverse to Mercy's Sympathetic Recovery in that while dealing damage she'd apply a small anti-heal of around 10-15% but that portion of healing that's blocked would be given to her instead. Also to go further into the closer range playstyle you could incorporate her 2 melee animations by allowing her to use melee without interrupting her primary or secondary fire at the expense of it only dealing around 20 damage. Zenyatta: I also feel he's in a good place but to me rather than reducing its effect on tanks it should instead be a bit less free (also yes make it have its old range). Instead of a hard cooldown which would not feel good to play with Zen's design you could have a soft cooldown that only happens if it's removed by someone other than Zen (i.e any cleanse, out of los, etc), where it will then be unable to be placed on that person specifically for a short time but can still be placed on others. As for kick I do feel that its boop distance should be decreased a bit but that it should also be faster, allowing you to act earlier after use (It's called "Snap Kick" after all). Also it's extremely intentional for Zen to not have any movement but his hitbox (especially his head hitbox) could definitely be shrunk a little. Ana: Similar to Moira I think that a partial Anti-heal would be better than just a straight up nerf for its duration on tanks. Making it so that it only blocks 75% of healing and so 25% is still given to the target would allow it to still have impact without completely preventing healing. Lifeweaver: As a Lipreader main I have a lot to say but I'll only say a few things. I think that the active heal is fine but that it should simply be less polarized, increase the charge speed to about 0.8 seconds, decrease the max healing to 70, and remove the idiotic slow when holding a fully charged heal. For the ammo I'd keep it but instead make it work like Sym's secondary fire where the longer you charge it the more ammo you use (ofc the ammo would be increased to compensate) and make it so that if you don't have a target upon releasing the charge or switch to your damage the ammo will be returned to the clip instead of getting wasted. Greater control over the petal is great but something else I want is for it to not block line of sight for Lifeweaver's healing. A problem I often have with Life Grip is that I'll grip someone, but they die before or immediately after being pulled, so what if the barrier gets applied immediately while also lingering for a moment after being pulled or they cancel it with a movement ability. Bap: I think that Bap should have a few tweaks to his numbers such as increasing the recoil on his gun but otherwise, I had an idea that I originally thought of to rework Suzu but could also really work with Lamp. Instead of preventing you from going below a certain amount of health Lamp could prevent you from taking more than 20% of your max health at once. So a 200 HP hero in the Lamp, instead of taking damage and then becoming invincible for their last 50 health would instead be prevented from taking more than 40 damage at once. It wouldn't take armor or damage mitigation into the calculation, only the absolute value of their max health. Other than that I feel like Bap should move faster than the other characters while crouching to make better use of the exo boots.
is the slow while you have a full heal actually mentioned anywhere in his kit (i play him enough to know its a real thing i just dont see it anywhere in his kit) and yes its so dumb why does that exist
Some of the ideas on Moira involved doing morer DOT style of damage. IMO Lifeweavers autoattack should apply a small DOT to anyone it hits, stacking per hit up to X. There is a LOT of aoe healing in the game. Having a character impact that, even with 5dps DOT for even a second or two applied to several people could be huge, also allowing him to heal in-between application, and also have impact on the large amount of healing over time reducing the way fights drag out due to aoe healing.
I always wondered if we could give Mercy a passive called "Tailwind" where allies get a small temporary speed boost whenever she passes by them when using guardian angel. Could be too clunky but i always thought of having that as her passive
What if the orb once stuck to an enemy gives them a damage nerf percentage and sticking an ally gives them the lifesteal. You can balance it so the orbs stop their current heal or damage once stuck.
Lifeweaver auto charge would mean having to double click mouse every time, one to choose the target for the charged heal, and then again to restart the charge, unless you want the auto charge to restart automatically.
Rather than an internal cool-down for the mercy heals, I think an internal growth meter (opposite of the decay) would be more fluid and intuitive. Like crit heals from tf2, but based on when you healed them instead of damage. I.e. mercy heals someone for 4 seconds until it decays to 30hps, mercy then heals other people for 2 seconds before returning to the first player, where the healing would start at 50hps and decay to 30hps again over the next 2 seconds.
The one important thing about Moira is that her long range attack is the main thing that refills her healing tank. If you nerf her range, then you unintentionally nerf how much she can heal in some cases. It does low damage for a reason so it makes the range more fair. At least if her healing resource meter stays the same. The range shouldn't be changed in my opinion.
2 suggestions for mercy changes to encourage movement that I think would be cool is the shorter the beam the stronger the healing and when she super jumps she leaves like a gust of air that lets allies hold jump to float up a bit
Or if the numbers are too hard to manage for the healing you can change it so she gives someone a healing boost for a short time when she touches them (on a cool-down ofc) or something like the lower her health the stronger her healing is to encourage a bit more risk/reward gameplay
@@ninjafluffdeluxI would like to see her melee heal like you see in the zero hour cinematic, in general I think their should be more melee interactions.
I think this would just make pocketing even more annoying. Personally I like the idea of diminishing returns with her beams, if she stays on the same player for more than 5 seconds then her beams slowly drop down to 70% effectiveness, only on that one player. And it takes 3 seconds of not beaming that player before it returns to 100%. This means that she will have to play smart with teammate cooldowns and such, hopefully giving her more flow. Although this is a pretty big nerf so you would have to compensate in some other way.
on a sound design and supports I think the new support Illari needs to have a louder sound when the rifle is fully charged I have my music turned off and it's still hard to hear
I think a cool rework to Ana would be: Nade & sleep dart on a shared but shorter cooldown. I think it would make for interesting decision making on Ana’s part & tanks don’t have to worry about getting bullied with both of her cooldowns every time they’re up
The suggestions that amount to 'make it so i can slaughter this hero at will' are the most hilarious. Listen, if your 'support rework ideas' make it so support sucks to play then your idea sucks.
One thing I thought of for Bap the other day was maybe limit the amount of final blows people can take inside the lamp before it breaks. Like it can save 2-3 times for those under the lamp and then it breaks. Reached its max so to say, but I don’t see it as a great change or even know how it would work. Just another idea
I think a general change to discord and a lot of abilities in general is that it doesn't apply to armor hp. This way the tanks that relies the most on their HP and therefore get screwed the most by discord can't be discorded before already being significantly chipped. Tanks like Zarya and Sigma that do not have armor aren't impacted as much by discord (as bubble cleanses it and the should be using more cover) And tanks that get destroyed by discord like Winston, Dva, Ball and Rein get a good quality of life change. The shield to block discord idea is so intuitive I was surprised it isn't even in the game already.
Think Bap’s burst could maybe apply a small heal to himself while making his heal hitscan rather than projectile. Could be a fun twist to give him flexibility, but maybe too weak overall. Think for Zen one small change would be needing to have the hero centred (or near) on your crosshair to discord. Sometimes you can be jumping around him and get it applied. Would like to see him look and make that choice to go for the ability. Really like the Moira changes. Projectiles that stick seem good. I like requiring the self heal to be tied to a damage org. More interplay and thought for the Moira. Ana a weird idea is a shared CD between her nade and sleep. You can buff it as needed, but in 5v5 especially might solve that issue of tanks eating both. Have to choose one but the one is either better or CD is a little shorter overall.
I haven't watched the moira section yet, but change damage to a projectile; keep healing the same. Lastly make orb not heal or deal damage specifically but have it effect the dmg and healing, maybe the healing and damage put stacks on the characters hit with them then they erupt when the orb comes near them dealing aoe dmg or maybe damage reduction instead of healing?
I always wondered if they changed anti-nade to reduce the amount of healing received by a target instead of a flat 'no healing'. I feel like that would fix the tank problems without damaging her 1v1 potential
As a mercy main I can honestly say your rework to blue beam is really well thought out have attack reload speed, cd reduction, movement speed Moira ideas were nice zen hitbox reduction really needed and he hovers so maybe allow him like bap exo boots to hover higher to get to high ground Bap making lamp damage reduction honestly good idea Lifeweaver the heal should be like illari gun for sure with unlimited ammo. The cleanse and other buffs u reccomended really good I think samito take on “dlc” hero’s having high aoe healing and immortality abilities is what makes support role broken. (Moira brig bap would need a rework to their aoe heal)
For moria, I would make the damage orb do less damage but have it mark the enemy for the whole team so the orbs can be used as a scouting tool. The heal orb can be thrown maybe to a teammate far away and it hits them you can can get a speed boost towards them or refresh your fade maybe? For her succ, i would make it a skill shot in a sense she launches a tendril and if she lands the shot she can do damage and a headshot tendril gives self heal but reduce the range so people can fight back by getting out of range or out of line of sight.
The biggest change I want for sleep (at least on tanks if not on everyone, but I know on squishies this could mess up some burst followups which isn’t really necessary on squishies) is the actual wake up animation is too long. It sucks to be playing a character that’s supposed to *briefly* engage multiple targets and die with all your cooldowns available because you got slept and bursted down from full before you could react, and it just isn’t enough of a skillshot to warrant that much value.
That small minority basically only play mercy, many have thousands of hours on her and like a few hundred on their next most played. Some have like less than one hundred on their next closest which is usually Moria Ana or Brig
Preface to this, I main tank. I really don't like how much power is being put into the tank passive instead of individual tanks. If tanks get too much more they reduce cc/status effects passivily I would prefer if there was a check/balance to it. My brain storm idea is the passive only applies while you have none basic hp. Armor, temp health, shields, things like that. After that nerf I feel like you can go crazy on the tank passive
just a random idea for the discord orb, prehaps someone who has been under the effect of a discord orb can't have it applied again on them for a certain amount of time.
I think petal platform would be cool if when it breaka it fires out low damage over time needles. This means you could also use it offensively and add some nuance to when use it for mainly movement or purely to throw at the enemy team for damage or in a 1v1.
An idea I had for moira, a smoke bomb that covers allies from enemy team but allies can see all enemies not covered by walls I also think it might have a slight healing buff I think this could also hid abilities like immortality field I think that could give her some utility For zen what if discord only has damage boost if the ally fighting that discorded enemy has healing orb And that ally with healing orb only gets heals if they fight the discorded enemy
i like the projectile rez idea a lot. in the COD zombies map origins the elemental staffs have an upgrade where you can flip the staff upside down and shoot a revive at a downed teammate. a similar concept seems like it could work really well here. i feel like she needs an identity other than damage boost. perhaps her right click could be changed to give an ally a pair of wings? allowing them to fly briefly or jump higher. mercy is a character about her movement, i feel like she should have some movement utility she can give to her team. rez should also bring tanks back with half health.
I like the idea of leaning into some melees with Mercy (and even Zen), but I think there should be a charge aspect if you want to hit that “tase” or boop ability. Even with Zen, I think snap kick should boop in proportion to how long it’s charged. Creates more decision and risk v reward, keeps a simple quick melee for emergencies, makes the balance smoother because the damage/utility scales with time, and you can even make it cancellable after a certain charge point to create mind games. That’s how certain projectiles and hits work in fighting games, and those abilities create a lot of dynamism.
With Moira for skills with her right click or how she shoots make it to where its a needle projectile and once it hits you will be able to take there health. That way she can have a head shot skill that could increase her damage. I domt know her raw DPS stats but for an example a head shot would be 50 dmg and the body would be damage than its damage per second is more for a head shot than a body shot. This way you could have some skill. So if she disengages she could shoot it from a distance.
Get rid of rez and replace her E with a 70 damage beam shot on a 4 second cooldown. It doesn't interrupt any other actions such as staff, pistol, and GA. This would also work well with the overclocking ult idea, maybe increasing the damage to 120 and giving it piercing and maybe a damage over time. This would just give mercy something to do and look out for while she was healing/damage boosting. You could also combine that with a diminishing returns system where her beam loses effectiveness on a certain player if used for too long on said player. Edit: Just got to the part where spilo introduces a diminishing returns healing idea.
My idea for a Mercy "rework" was to take ML7's experimental patch, and alter the numbers a bit. So Valkyrie became her ability and rez was on her ultimate. Valkyrie was single target however the numbers ML7 did were terrible, My version is a 15sec cooldown ability, 7-8sec duration, with 75hp/s and 30% dmg boost. HOWEVER, it was single target, not AOE like it is currently. Rez was now her ultimate again but ML7 left the 1.75 sec cast time but it was AOE and could rez multiple people. For my version I would simply leave it single target and just make the cast instant. Lastly, I'd revert ALL of the GA cooldown nerfs they did, so her GA was now back to Season 2-3 of OW2. So now she can perform between as a support, by still having the same kit (which is less work for the devs) just moved around a bit, with better numbers on her healing whilst leaving rez to be infrequent, have an ultimate barrier rather than a cast time (which often times is a self destruct for the Mercy player). This allows for Mercy to be that triage healer. You could also argue to nerf damage boost even more, or rework it into that projectile ability we saw in the PVE talent demo during one of blizzards PVE livestreams in 2021/2022, as to force her into that triage style and not just now having a super buffed pocket style. One of Mercy's main flaws is her output numbers being too low to be a main healer (Bap, Ana, Moira, Illari, Lifeweaver) but not enough bullshit game changing utility like Zen and Lucio, cause rez is basically not useable without you dying 90% of the time. This means that she sits in the middle when building a team comp, meaning she can only be paired with either Doomfist or Wrecking ball, cause your healing output is nowhere near enough to sustain any other tank, which is why poke comps with Sigma just aren't a thing you see very much of, cause everyone is spread out and Mercy/Zen is like the only support lineup that favours that style, with Mercy unable to sustain that comp when the global damage of the game has outscaled her entire kit.
Can't really speak for the Mercy, Moira, and LW changes since I don't play them but I like the other ones. It's refreshing that you have practical ideas that don't just involve completely gutting every support character like most people seem to want.
An idea I had for Bap's shift is to change it to be a horizantal version of his Exo-Boot Jump and call it Exo-dash. To compensate, both Exo-jump and Exo-dash would provide him with a small self heal and his healing grenades would get a buff to both their AOE size and healing amount. This leans into his already selfish nature and gives him more ways to use his fun Exo boots while the compensation buffs bolster the one way he already helps his team.
problem with zens hitboxes is kinda an overlap of how hitboxes are done as a whole with legs having quite a bit bigger hitboxes so its easier to hit them and zen not wanting to walk like others is floating like that basically turning into a flying practice target to be easily hit
My personal take for a Mercy rework which is similar to some of your ideas for similar reasons but I think simplifies it down to one core concept: both heal beam and damage boost beam spike initially in potency to the target if you just GA'ed to them, but then both drops off in intensity dramatically from there. So that way 1.) Mercy has a source of burst healing, though limited by GA cooldown 2.) damage boosting a DPS would instead reward you for your game-sense: If you see an ally about to make a big play and you can GA to them for a super-boost at just the right time--- that could be some more interesting active play-making potential right there. Basically rewarding/encouraging Mercies to fly around to allies to give optimal spikes in value via gamesense timing and movement tech and punishing passive stand-behind-a-corner-and-hold-beam pocketing with very low output in value. Didn't personally have any thoughts on reworking rez but out of the suggestions you had I think I like the "halo" option the best, as long as enemies can see who has the halo so you have some counterplay around it. It's the one that I think maintains the aesthetics of how rez functions to maintain Mercy's identity more while trying to improve on some of the issues with that ability.
For Moira her Biotic the way it works now is fine I would just change the hit sphere to gradually reduce over time the longer it is fired, requiring more accuracy so like once fired initial second its as it is then gets smaller and smaller until its close to a single point after say 3 seconds, stop firing will have its size revert back at the same or slightly faster rate, this keeps her easy at entry level but requires Aim skill to keep it there for full effect, and from the targets point gives them a reason to move evasively. because in many cases its better to just stand still to ensure your shots land to kill her before hand. I also feel the self heal should be removed from it as she has enough self heal and would encourage more yellow orb use, watching this vid gave me an Idea for her heal spray. what if her heal easier stays as it is now as far as targeting or works like her purple beam as far as targeting goes, but you are effectively painting a yellow orb on the target that ether works like a normal yellow orb but stuck to a player. or it gives a leeching effect to the target that heals the player as they do damage to the target. I also likes the last Halloween or whatever event that enables you to pause or stop orb movement, that could be made a thing also. I also feel her orbs should fade faster if she is not alive, we all have those stray deaths to the dam things lol
I have a lot to say about this video some good, some bad but overall this video and ideas are really really good and I appreciate it ALOT. Very well spoken and handled amazingly!
nano giving speed is simmilar to its release version. that lead to that reaper lucio ana meta. on lw: i think that the weapon swap is integral to the character. i think most suggested changes are unneccessary 4 him. one thing that feels almost like a bug is that placeing the pettle doesnt work with only one input whenever charging the heal(you have to do one input to cancel the heal and then pettle which feels stupid and has killed me sooo often:(). the pettle decend is sooo smart.
As someone who has mained both these creatures in the past - these are awesome. I loveeeee some of the Moira ideas specifically. She'd be like a more heal-central Zen which would go a long way to do away with the DPS Moira trope/hate since I feel like even PICKING Moira can get you flamed in the lower ranks even if you're outperforming the rest of the healers. I also love the rez-ult or skillshot rez idea and can relate that Mercy's movement is THE REASON you pick Mercy, and I haven't done that for about three seasons because there isn't a single healer that doesn't bring more to the table now. Very very cool talk!!
I appreciate your thoughtful, considerate approach to hero design/balance. In a sea of dumb, thoughtless ideas, it's nice to hear someone who understands the nuances of Overwatch game design.
Good ideas to start with! My biggest problem with the Mercy ideas is that putting an internal cooldown per character on any skill feels awful. It is the case right now with Sombra's hack and it's one of the jankiest feeling gameplay aspects of hers right now, so putting that same thing on something as critical as healing is a big no no. Not only that, but unlike Hack, healing can sometimes be super necessary for much longer periods of time. I do love the idea of her ult being an "auto-life". Perhaps something like Illari's ult or an aura like Transcendence which gives allies in the AoE th Halo effect, giving them a strong HoT and also the reraise buff for 3-5s, which could give Mercy the ability to make massive defensivr plays. Ofc this would need to get rid of Res as a cooldown, which in turn could be replaced by an "overclock" mechanic for her heal and boost, which strengthens the effects: extra healing and leaving a HoT after disattachment, and extra movement, cooldown, and reload speed with a lingering effect so she could potentially buff two people at the same time. Alternatively, make her small Valkyrie burst on this new ability to let the effect of th beam active on the target linger for 3 seconds or which would encourage her at the very least to be continuously flying between two or more targets, and would also force her to have a more direct decision making on who to use her cooldowns at what times.
For bap, what about a charge on his right click heal? He shoots three shots so a charge can take three ammo but will make him shoot at a much faster speed to help hit farther targets?
lamp being a damage reduction is the best idea i've heard yet. sounds balanced on both sides because for the teammates in it, it forces bap to temporarily focus on pumping out heals than trying to DPS (a common bap issue) & the counter play is just to work together and overload the damage reduction. great work 👍🏽
My duo is a mercy main, and we've talked about this extensively. These are some of the ideas we've come up with: 1. Get rid of damage boost as a continuous beam ability. Instead, left click heals, right click is an ability that does a small amount of damage. Something like a staff bash that does 30-40 damage and potentially applies slow for 1-1.5 seconds. This would be a great close range disengagement tool. 2. Delete rez and replace it with some kind of damage boosting utility, with less potency and more risk than the current damage boost. This would not be a continuous beam but something like an AoE damage boost (similar to Lucio or Brig but boosts damage instead of heals), or a single target ability that damage boosts a teammate for a certain percentage (similar to discord but on a teammate). 3. Get rid of valkyrie and replace it with an ult that takes advantage of mercy's movement and gives mercy the ability to either do some damage or provide some kind of utility to the team. During the ult, mercy can potentially GA to any visible target, including the enemy team. We've talked about naming the ult "angel of death", and her staff turning into a scythe for 6-10 seconds. If we want to stay away from mercy being damage oriented, the scythe could apply a "reaper's mark" to players that are hit by the scythe. This would be close range, and apply some kind of debuff. 4. Remove sympathetic recovery or build a new passive that increase survivability, but not to the extent it does currently.
Looking at Moira, there might be something to the idea of there being a benefit to tracking targets more accurately - What if the damage on her right click could ramp up, but only if and while you keep your crosshair on target? There aren't really any heroes in the support roster that reward tracking aim, and that could be a fun way to add that. Other ways to reward tracking aim on support would be to give Mercy's pistol a smaller hitbox and ammo pool but a higher headshot multiplier, and have Lifeweaver's heals charge themselves while his thorn volley homes in on his crosshair.
Love a lot of these changes! Some very creative ideas, not just boring number changes or ability reverts. I've had an idea for a while now that Mercy's res should be removed and replaced with an ability that lets her shield her beam target(s). Let's say, 100 overhealth for 2 seconds on a 10 second cooldown, but obviously numbers can be changed. The idea is that instead of saving a dead ally, you should be able to protect them while they're still alive. She is a GUARDIAN angel after all. Plus, giving a group of allies all shields for 2 seconds during Valkyrie will make the ult feel MUCH more impactful, giving Mercy a much smaller and shorter Lucio beat that could be used twice during ult. Powerful? Yes, absolutely, but so is res, and I feel as though players would feel the ability is more fair than res. Btw, this ability should look like a burst of nanomachines being sent through the beam to the target to envelop them, similar to when Mercy touches Mei to heal her in the "Zero Hour" cinematic
I think moira heal orb would be really cool if you could shoot it at an ally like zen orb and it would emit a healing over time aura, as if the target were releasing Moira’s heal spray themselves. It decays over 5 seconds and goes from healing a decent amount down to 0 (maybe 30 hps at the start idk). Then, I would change damage to another discord like shot that would do not pass through shields, small flat dot, allows moira to suck the target from further but would give her the ability to suck through shields. It would wear off after the same amount of time as heal orb and be on a but shorter of a cooldown. Her normal suck would have shorter range and a weaker aim lock. For heal spray, the resource would be significantly reduced with a faster charge time, almost like illari heals. Heal over time would stay
18 min into this and OMG the mercy rework sounds great, especially Rez being a projectile ultimate and boost being on a meter fueled by healing. Lovely ideas that translate better into skill than her current kit. I'd love Valk to be a short overdrive ability too.
Im actually fine with how his healing works by holding and release. The problems Im not a big fan of is his projectile speed of his weapon and how slow it takes to swap between heal and dmg. I feel like if they made hos weapon projectile speed better, he would be great.
I would love a support that give reload speed amp. Maybe would be too OP idk. But we have speed amp, damage amp, immortality, anti etc. I hate having to reload for a Long time unless i get Elims on dps or theres a kitsune ult
Moira skill floor is lower the IC of the people who play her and it’s very frustrating when I playing a hard hero like Ana or Lucio and my other support is diff me but he’s on Moira
I'm not high ranked but I have been playing mercy since sesason 3 overwatch 1. Here are the changes that I liked that were mentioned and even maybe some of my own that I think could work somehow. Note: all numbers are placeholders and obviously can be changed. I'm more just stressing the ideas. Mentioned Changes: Staff: Healing: Higher initially then drops off over time. Rewards jumping around healing from target to target and less on pocketing. Specifically your tank like how I see a lot of lower rank mercy's do. Boosting: Drops damage boost in place for movement speed, ability, and reload reductions. Nice to have someone other than lucio helping people engaging or dis-engaging. Helps with making boost more effective across the cast rather than only for a select pool of characters. Fixes a lot of the damage thresholds in higher ranks. A meter for this I don't think would work as if your teammates aren't taking any damage then you are just kinda useless. That and in my eyes boost would just become a more utility lucio speed song for one person specifically so i think being able to keep that connection constant in my eyes is fine. Yes this would mean that mercy still has some of that "pocket" play style to her but with a hero about beaming target allies part of that is just going to be in her kit regardless. Rather my goal you'll see is to make those "pocket" moments more impactful during shorter bursts rather than overall. GA: I personally like a lot of the easier movement but the GA meter is unnecessary. You shouldn't be punished for being on top of your teammate all the time. There are times where standing near them is a good idea against flank dps like tracer, genji, sombra. Valk: Personally I think a lot of Valk should remain the same and I think a lot of mercy players would agree with me on this in terms of just being able to fly around, see more, help people more effectively, and in aggressive positions. I'd say the only thing that would be needed to make it more effective is just to increase the numbers on the healing and boost and then i think the ultimate will have more of an impact. Pistol changes: Projectile speed and damage inc. Let's be honest this pistol is ass. Buffing it would help with surviving against those flankers a bit more. Similar to what zen got with the melee changes. Enough to where good players could improve the changes of survival but not enough to where they are un-killable. Also would give more intensive to valk pistol a target to get the kill at the expense of not boosting your teammates. New changes: Rez: There were some good ideas with the rez projectile and other ideas mentioned but personally i think there is only two ways this can go and yes both of them don't involve rez. Option 1: Similar to Kiriko, Mercy would be able to make her beam target invulnerable. This would last probably around 3-5 seconds and would be on a 10 second cool down. This would only make it so that the beamed target would not be able to take any damage and cleanse debuffs but could still be knocked back and down by any boops, shatter, etc. Catches to the ability. This ability ends if the beam connection breaks or changes and of course if you are killed. This will be high risk/reward to aggressive play but can also be used defensively against high incoming damage on your ally. This ability would not be able to chain in valk (for obvious reasons). Option 2: This ability would overclock her staff and would last 3-5 seconds with a 12 second cool down. This would significantly increase the healing of her staff allowing you to quickly heal an ally to keep them alive. Her boost would change to increase those boost numbers / percentages and add in that damage boost that was lost. Unlike option 1 this ability would be in effect even if the beam breaks allowing you to change between allies. This ability would not be usable in valk. If this option would be chosen for mercy's kit then the damage boost should be added in as part of the boost during Mercy's Valkyrie. Both these options in my eyes provide more utility to mercy and helping allies in those smaller 1v1 or even 2v1 battles helping your teammate to swing the tide for just a couple seconds to either bail them out helping them get the kill. Personally option 1 would be nice just because it keeps a little bit of that rez / immunity aspect without it being too op but I think both can work as substitutes for rez.
The reason poke heroes tend to be Mercy's main pockets is that they can stay somewhat aggressive for a long time, and benefit from Mercy's ability to beam them indefinitely. They match the slow, constant tempo of her utility. To make her switch targets and rotate more, I think Mercy needs a strict, limited resource to deliver to the more mobile, "in, attack, out, recover" heroes. I'm thinking put damage boost on a meter (similar to D.Vas defense matrix), and add damage resistance as well as damage boost to it. So her role would be to go deliver the boost to the high tempo frontline when they get aggressive, and when she has lots of resources, then fly back to the low tempo backline once she's low on resources. It'd be like how with Ana you close into mid-range to deliver anti nade and / or sleep while you have the opportunity, then try to dissappear into the backline the rest of the time - she doesn't even have high mobility, but rotates constantly because of her strict resources and dynamic tempo.
here's my idea for a mercy utility to replace res, idk if anyone will see this but might as well. "protective wings" aim assisted projectile similar to mag grenade but targets teammates and creates a translucent angel wings motif, a teammate hit with this receives 25 hps for and + 10% move speed for 3 seconds and at any time during the ability mat press interact to be launched into the air and gain the glide passive until they land. the ability would have a 10 to 15 sec cooldown after it is completely over. If anybody sees this I'd love to hear what you think :)
The Moira changes are the best ones from this vid. I might have a slight interest in playing her with those reworks. The Zen changes would also be great. For Bap, it seems like his playstyle would be improved if you replaced his AR with a sniper rifle that healed your teammates and damaged your enemies at all ranges and if his lamp was replaced with a grenade that either buffed his healing output on a threatened target or damaged and prevented healing on an enemy.
if you want to fix mercy you need to increase both floor and ceiling. make it so the beam needs to be aimed. make it so her movement at the very least needs to be slowed down before u you go in another direction. i do like the ress idea where you need to apply it before death
LifeWeaver I’ve played him almost exclusively season 5/6. Def decrease hitbox again agreed. He’s a massive support. For his HP, keep it at 225 but remove the 50 shields. Or got back to 200 but keep the 50 shield. 150hp/50 shield. Remove spread all together in his damage and reduce it some. And YES auto charge heal, like a Mei icicle. Click it charges itself and fires when full. No scaled health. It his for 1 set number with a HoT.
Making an internal cooldown on healing/boosting the same guy constantly *should* be super easy. But they took like 2 months to nerf roadhog's damage which should've been a case of changing a single variable so idk...
Thank you for directly addressing the thing that pushed me away from playing Mercy even though she was a major part of what brought me to Overwatch in 2016 from TF2. Her flight is awesome, it makes me want to be a triage-healer, and I don’t want to be stuck to a Pharah all game. Her partial rework in OW2 S3 actually got me excited, as it gave me an excuse to heal tanks and move around the battlefield as I originally wanted. When they reverted that, I stopped playing her again.
Having a crit heals mechanic feels like it's the no brainer solution to her even now. Of course it doesn't fix her mobility issues or res or valk but it does a lot to make mercy not pocket people. But the less than 50% healing made her even more annoying when tanking another hero. Like her other support for example.
super cool ideas...as a mercy main i completely agree with the design philosophy of "make movement the important part of her kit, make decision making more engaging/risky/impactful" for mercy. i also agree completely with replacing rez as an ability. i know blizzard is really attached to the overwatch hero fantasies and theming, so theyll be reluctant to part with rez, but its not a fun ability on either side of a game and i think its worth it to keep trying to change it. its a little frustrating actually, because over the years a lot of rez replacements have been suggested by the community, including mercy players, but these ideas seem to get folded into new characters kits instead of a rework - the ideas for a cleanse ability like suzu and invulnerability abilities like baptiste lamp and suzu were often brought up as potential replacement ideas from popular mercy content creators for resurrect right after the mass rez rework, but it seems those abilities were decided to fit a new characters kit better. for the rez replacement ideas, the only one im hesitant about is the halo. its a cool idea, but i think still extremely situational and difficult to use with frequency (too hard/too EASY to get value from, i think it could swing either way depending on the numbers) and im worried about how it would stack with immortality abilities. theres already an issue in game of stacking immortality, and im concerned that the halo could become another immortality that can be stacked on a teammate with little counterplay. still, i think its a cool direction, and could actually be palatable with blizzards design philosophy of retaining a heroes identity. for blue beam replacements, i like all of the direction going towards incentivizing movement. i think boosting movement speed is tricky because unlike lucio speed boost, theres less agency from teammates to opt out of an effect that could mess up aim and movement (cant opt out of blue beam) and if we are to encourage switching beam targets, flicking blue beam as appropriate should feel as smooth as possible for the person at the end of it, and movement speed may be jarring if mercy is flicking even the way she sometimes does now. i also would want a replacement ability to make the trade off of surviving on mercy worth it even if i have to keep beam on 1-2 allies the whole time. there are some prefer beam target techs that i use to survive dives in solo ranked that require me to use one ally as a central tether while moving my camera around, and id miss using that knowledge tbh haha though its not as important as incentivizing movement and disincentivizing pocket overall im essaying but thanks for a rlly cool vid :)
17:06 I made a similar concept for my Mercy Rework so I'll propose it for funsies •HP decreased from 200 to 175 Guardian Angel: •GA can be used to fly to a targeted direction with or without an ally. •Using GA to fly to an ally has a 2.5 second CD. •Using GA to fly to a targeted directio has 2 charges and a Cooldown of 3 seconds for each charge. Maximum range can be extended by holding down the ability which will however use 2 charges at once. The idea is to add abit more depth to Mercy's movement while also making her more vulnerability just to not make her completely unkillable. This is apart of my Mercy Rework that focuses on her flying across the battlefield to heal her team, acting as a Triage Healer basically.
It seems to be a really common take for ppl to decrease mercys health and increase her mobility. Honestly? Im all here for it! I had the same ideas. 175 hp im a big fan of- ez punishment for bad movement. There should be punishment available for her movement as counterplay as otherwise she can accomplish lots , notice how tracer has high mobility yet also high value. Most high mobility characters have their other stats nerfed to balance it out. However making mercy follow this pattern of high mobility high utility opens up a huge window for error, and a huge window for carrying. The halo ultimate idea really requires good game sense to maximise this. You could put it on your tracer slept in enemy back line or you could put it on your rein who's close to shatter and needs to play aggro for it. I think moments like this are what would give massive amounts of respect to mercy players, and would give them skill-based impact. I think even if it's easy to apply, that's honestly fine because it still takes knowledge to get worth from it. A mercy who just throws it at her widow and mistimes it, means that she's wasted it and her widow dies anyways. Huge fan of this spilo vid, and of the comments like this under it
@@yuhhbaby3179 love your insight on this 💕 mercy should be rewarded for good movement by increasing the depth and skill of it but more punishable for misusing it. one way to punish bad movement is an HP nerf which would force a mercy player to be smart with their movement, positioning, timing etc. i also think the halo ult idea sounds good! though my concerns would be that it'd feel awful when your teammate doesn't follow up on it. maybe make it an ability though i imagine that to be quite difficult to balance. for mercy's ultimate in general i struggle to come up with something that feels good, is impactful and rewards skill (mass rez checks the first two but not the last, valk checks not any of them. not saying it feels bad or doesn't reward any skill expression but it doesn't feel that good and is also not the hardest thing to pull off. the only time i've enjoyed valk is for pulling off a stall + clutch rez in ot)
For Ana. I would reduce the splash on her nade. It’s pretty wide and not difficult to hit multiple enemies. keep the anti heal, but maybe remove the healing buff for allies. Sleep dart, I’m ok with. It is her most skill intensive ability. Less forgiving than her primary/secondary fire. Maybe 3 seconds sleep for tanks, 4 seconds anything else. Or 4 seconds for dps and 5 seconds on support.
One of my favorite silliest/riskiest things to do with lifeweaver is agressive pulls for my tank. Almost like a Lucio using speed boost to engage, but instant travel time. Sad part is, i deserve to die for this almost every time. It would be SUPER cool if my dash went further in exchange for whatever necessary nerf, because then id be massively rewarded for my ability to infiltrate the backlines, pull my Rein or Ram in, and then dash to safety.
I think lower damage on the moira lifesteal orb would encourage using it on tanks, it's not worth risking hitting the genji for only 50 dmg, so I might as well use it for tank.
My thing with the change mentioned at 14:27 is that it makes it entirely frustrating to help a dps for 1v1s, which is kind of a part of Mercy's gameplay. No other support gets a healing dip except maybe Moira when she runs out of resources, and I think it wouldn't feel good to watch your healing quickly do less and less as it's just you and the last dps on point. Maybe if Mercy had another resource besides straight up right click to help (like Bap's shift or Ana's nade) I could see a case for it. But another problem with that is trying to support a team that's taking a lot of damage - if your internal meter is worn for most the team, you would essentially be doing nothing even if you are zipping around the map. Maybe an overclock ability would remedy this. I like the other changes to Mercy, especially the Rez ideas (Halo in particular), but I think it'd be a frustrating transition for metal rank players because these require a little more coordination/communication, which metal rank players aren't always the best at. Which might be fair when characters like Ana are still popular picks despite requiring more technicality.
I'm going to say this again I think one of the most important things to make a support feel rewarding is SFX it's astonishing how good people feel when a support SFX sounds amazing when they heal!
This is also probably why people love to play Ana so much it's not only for her utility and game play but you feel the impact of healing teammates with a punchy heal sound!
Mercy's healing SFX is soooo beautiful and tempts me so much to healbot ngl
@@momdad1818exactly!
Ana's biotic rifle has the best healing sound design in ow2 simply because it rises in pitch when you hit successive heals on teammates, GODDAMN what a way to skyrocket the happy hormones in my brain
I remember i took a long break from overwatch and saw baptiste and tried playing him. genuinely the most appealing thing was the noise his healing made lmao
If we expect for the tank to take all that cc in the face, why not change tank passive and instead of knockcack reduction, it reduces all forms of cc with like 50%
Or perhaps after they are cced, they get enraged and get a short damage amplification buff.
Or you get successive CC resistance so that more than one ability used on you gets reduced effect. Like say you get slept, for the next 5 seconds any non-damaging ability used on you gets its effect halved. Then if a third ability is used within 5 seconds after the second, it gets a quarter of the normal effect. So you could get slept, then antied but it either only lasts half as long or only has 50% healing reduction, then you get shattered but get back up almost instantly. Individual CCs would still be just as effective and single supports could still protect themselves against tanks, but stacking on constant debuffs, stuns, slows, and other status effects would just get diminishing returns.
Or bring back 6v6 🙃
The internal healing change would likely be coded simmilarly to the Zarya bubble having a period of time where if a target has just received it then they can't get a second one
its easy, i suggested something for supports overall on reddit where you have a saturation point after which heals become less effective. but yeah as soon as the heal lands it adds a condition that has a timer which we cant see that incoming heals check for when they connect and would adjust if true or false etc. I aso added that a visual effect be implemented to the target that only the support can see to let them know to stop healing that target and do something else
The only thing I massively disagree with is the boost change. It makes sense for Moira and Illari to have the cooldowns on their healing, because they generally heal a lot, have abilities that also heal a lot, and most importantly: they have things they can do while not healing. What're you supposed to do with this Mercy change if no one on your team needs healing, but your boost is on "cooldown" ? You don't have that problem on similar characters because the answer is right there. You deal damage. Mercy doesn't have that same option like those other characters do, so it doesn't make sense to balance that ability the same way the others are balanced.
Also they changed Ana's projectile size while unscoped because they nerfed her damage/healing. It was a compensatory buff that I honestly think should stay. It's only a .1 size increase
that’s a fair point, but also i can’t really think of any other way to incentivize mercy players to lean into the more frantic playstyle. you have to almost force healing to be a necessity somehow or else boosting behind walls is always gonna be the most efficient way to play mercy. this would be less of an issue if her pistol was reworked like the idea mentioned in the video, though, because then it would be pretty consistent (albeit less than stellar) damage
@@defaultdan7923Maybe something like a dropoff after a certain time where the maximum damage boost is the same as it is now but drops down to 10% or something if you stick with the same target for too long? It might encourage moving around more. I also like the idea of db damage doing dot dmg like Ana primary though that might make the healing creep worse
I love the idea of Valkyrie as an ability to amplify mercy’s kit. Rez can be gone or moved to the ult Most mercy’s don’t care for rez if it means we get a more consistent and or fun/ impactful ability
For Moira - what if they leaned more into her life-steal role? Maybe she could put orbs on her teammates and as the Moira does damage it heals your teammates that have the orb. For example if you put an orb on 3 teammates the healing is divided among them, where as if only 1 teammate has the orb they would get more healing as Moira did damage
i love the healing change where she heals more at the begining but less the more she keeps healing the same target , that idea is amazing and i wish they acctually see this and do something similar if not straight up copy paste it
I had an idea for Mercy years ago that you give her staff an "overheat" mechanic, which locks you out completely for a few seconds. The closer you push it towards "overheating" the higher the healing or damage boost you get, but they would be on separate meters, healing targets would lower the damage boost "heat" and damage boosting would lower the healing "heat"
Neglecting healing or damage boosts for long periods of time would lead to the staff healing/boosting low amounts, this would mean that you have to balance using both aspects to get the most out of her while also doing it at the right time.
I don't hate that idea
I love this idea
I like this but I would add the ability to let one of the meters overheat on someone. The over heat would give the target a lingering less powerful version of the effect that overheated but in return locks you out of using that beam for a few seconds.
It would just add to the fun of having choices in the way you play her. You would be doing a balancing act most the time with her to keep both beams at optimal potency but also having the choice to let one overheat for another beneficial effect but needs to be done at the right times.
You could overheat damage boost on your DPS and fly to your tank to give some emergency healing. Providing mercy the ability to help out two targets at once but at the cost of her entire ability momentarily.
Or let's say you're about to die so you purposely overheat one of the beams on your target so that even though you died..you're still helping the remaining teammate and that's your reward for balancing the meters so well
@@dazzlingdecay5337i acfually love this idea???? Its basically an amp it up for mercy
@@dazzlingdecay5337 Actually not a bad idea, though I do have to wonder: how would her ultimate affect the overheat mechanic? I genuinely curious, would you prefer it to prevent overheating allowing Mercy to maintain maximum output of a certain type for a bit at the cost of flexibility (not being able to switch to healing while maintaining a damage amp aura) or something else?
For the damage boost idea I think making it boost the rate of fire and movement speed would work quite well. Make it a sort of Kiriko ult that only applies to one target and needs mercy focused on it. It would still maintain Mercy's identity as a character that increases damage while not having the problem of damage boost.
The real problem with damage boost has never been damage output, but the fact that it's a burst of damage. Boosting the fire rate would allow it to be more powerful in a lot more situations, but it would not have the frustration if dealing with a potential one shot for the receiving end. It also makes it feel more rewarding as you can feel an increased rate of fire as a Mercy, but not the damage boost.
In practice it would feel bad, randomly may changing fire rate feels jarring
@@RD-um9dytotally agreed. It would feel so clunky and uncomfortable for your fire rate to drastically decrease or increase randomly throughout a fight
I wonder if it could work like during GA's actual activation, her healing beam being boosted in response, and lower the numbers when GA isnt active, so itd be an implementation of that one bullet point for Angelic Boost
mercy blue beam being resource based is actually a great idea, i think that would provide more counterability and require more thought from the mercy
I think it’d be cool if lw had an option to choose between two platforms (like how Moira can choose which orb to deploy). When pressing shift, two options would pop up: the first one is the typical elevator platform he already has, and the second one should be a bouncy platform; like how certain maps have those green pads you can jump on. I think this would be a cool option to utilize if your entire team wants to go to high ground that way everyone can use it instead of only having one platform that only you and certain hitscan heroes can use.
I feel like these are definitely strong ideas all around! One critique I do have however as I don’t love the complete removal of aoe from bap and Moria as I feel it makes them more dynamic compared to other supports so I’d still like to retain that in some elements of there kit
I really like the Moira orb ideas, as well as other orb options. Maybe having 3-4 orb options with 2 charges could be really fun.
Personally I don't see the interest of making or a normal projectile, it sucks all the unicness of the ability out of her kit, and make her feel worst. If you want your character to be very aim intensive, any character would be more rewarding than Moira in that aspect, just by the nature of her kit. Moira's identity is all in the decision making, the fact that you always have to choose between two things and that what we should be pushing the character to be. This and making her more synergistic with other supports and heroes in general.
Making things more aim intensive at all cost does not solve any fundamental of the issue with any of the hero, it just make things less unic to cater to a part of the community to which the kit was clearly not for. If you want your character to reward aim, you'll never pick a character like Moira, or Sombra, or Mercy or whoever is next on the "make it a skill shot" craze.
About the effects, I think it's a good idea to give her orbs different effects but it needs to be deliberate and thoughtful, aiming toward what you would want the character to be, how you want her to fit within the Overwatch cast. I think that's really the difficulty here, finding effects that are unic enough, rewarding enough, and that play with who Moira is as a character, what is she all about.
@@artimist0315Her "identity" is so bland that basically every support does what her entire identity is and more. I think everyone believes that every character should take some skill and the one Spilo came up with would not even ruin her "identity".
The orb thing gives me zenyatta feel…
@@LeatherNinja Again no one is forcing you to play Moira, she is a relatively easy hero mechanically in a game where most heroes are pretty intensive in that aspect, allowing for a number of players to have a hero that let them begin playing more easily. The identity of letting newer fps player have fun and learn the game with an easier hero is already a good reason for her to exist. And again skill is not measured by the accuracy of your shots or the number of buttons you press, most good players agree that lending a good anti-nade takes skill but it's definitely not hard to aim.
Where I agree that her kit lacks an identity is in what she brings in term of utility and playstyle, Unlike some of the other supports like lucio, Ana or Zen she doesn't really create openings that allow her team to follow up. But that's clearly not by making her kit "more aim intensive" that we will solve that, she will just end up like symmetra with a less unic feeling to her where the more aim intensive kit is only a distraction without fundamentally increasing her skill ceiling.
I think giving her primary fire a weakening effect like a healing reduction, a damage reduction, a "trapping mechanics" or a discord effect and giving her secondary fire a complementary effect would lead to more complex decision making with her mode of fire, lead her to play more with her team and reward a more deliberate use of her kit.
Yo spilo, nice to see you booming up on youtube. My suggestion about bap lamp is to leave it as is, except that it does not work against melee damage. This would mean that stuff like rein hammer swings, genji blade and the 30 damage from melee go through. The main issue is that a simple damage reduction for a relatively small area effect does not feel impactful at all. This would make the ability still exceptional in ranged fights and poke, but adds counterplay for heroes that are already struggling like rein and genji. It also wins lore wise, since the immortality field would now be a portable dva defense matrix instead of "magic" that prevents you from dying.
Haven't watched the video but you're brave for facing the Mercy Mafia
Watching the video, he talked with Mercy players and non-Mercy players when coming up with changes. I like that Spilo is trying to remove the "Us vs Them" mentality alot of players try to make up between Mercy mains and the rest of OW
@@shineyydesigns7696 tbh I like what he's cooking for Mercy and Moira, especially Moira. I like the idea of a support that encourages teammates to gang onto whichever person has the lifesteal debuff is a really interesting idea (not like Zen tho, Discord is a bit much)
Good,mercy players have a victim complex
@@ShadowLady1 dude what
@@ShadowLady1 Tbf, it is warranted. Out of every character in OW, Mercy mains have had the most stigma and toxicity since launch. People hating how Mercy plays, saying Mercy takes no skill all the time, the sexist takes that just get added on. No other character has that much stigma around it. Yeah Torb or Sym might get turret complaints but nobody says Torb mains suck because they're all men.
Lifeweaver does have an option to auto charge your healing blossoms in his settings. Also after a second of holding your fully charged blossom you will be slowed, which encourages not holding on to it and actually being more productive.
I love a lot of the cooking you did in this video on almost every hero, would be interested to see how it'd play out in game, but I'm sad to not see the annoyance of lifeweaver doing things like pulling people out of pins/gravs/sig flux. I think LW pulls should work almost like fade where he can't pull people out of 'active' abilities. Pin is already really hard to get at all, having someone pulled off me as I fly off the map is unfun.
Just something on the LW rework from someone who has 120 hours on him:
- Keep his hitbox the same the added 225 is a great benefit as you can tank quiet a few things (and making his hitbox smaller will make him even more unkillable)
- Love the ideas of the needles exploding and petal elevation controls
- Maybe instead of increasing his dash range lower the dash heal but make Weaver overall just a little bit faster (+10%)
- Keep the tree, as its apart of the fantasy they are going for with the character of a naturalist
Wouldn't making Lifeweaver faster in conjunction to having a dash have almost the same effect as giving him a smaller hitbox? (Making him harder to shoot at)
true but his heal on dash would be nerfed to compensate. You could even nerf the distance as well@@MaelCott1
Set right click healing and lifegrip on aim instead of targeting to increase the skill floor and potentially increase the max right click healing output to increase the skill ceiling, preferably through HOT like Spilo said. Remove the short immortality on lifegrip to allow counterplay and then lower the cooldown a bit. Give more flexibility to petal platform in terms of the movements it can do but reduce its hp by a good margin. That's my take, what do you think ?
@@user-cy6xl3vd3f I think he desperately needs more damage on his thorns or something no more heal buffs. Giving more flexibility on petal is a good idea as well. Lifegrip needs two uses though right now its way to reactive. I had an idea where you could use it as a pseudo Zarya bubble or as a regular pull, but you needed to choose which one not both.
Like the ideas. But one thing about the Mercy boost and cooldown reduction. I think it would really annoy me if I don't know wich team mates have abilities on cooldown, so there should be information shown about that when you boost someone.
I actually kinda liked that one patch, can't recall if it was april fools or experimental or what, where moira could throw her orbs and then stop them in place. it added an interesting area denial aspect and healing station aspect that I felt like with some iteration could give her skill expression beyond bouncing it into a small room with someone
half through vid, man I love this brainstorming thing you did a lot of creative ideas, maybe experimental patches
yooo, Angelic Haste very cool, and the healing resource thing is a slippery slope, if you buff the single target heal for the initial few seconds, it would lea into the healing issue we already have with support in general. Like the idea of swapping around her rez and valk, a skill shot aoe rez as an ult is a good halfway point with old ult and new rez, and the valk as a reworked cd would be sweet as a parrelel to lucio amp
I have a lot of ideas on how to change the supports so I'll just list a few for each you covered in this video.
Mercy: I had the same decay idea and "halo" idea lol. Otherwise I think her health could be reduced from 200 to 175 like Widow which would further emphasize movement when combined with the other changes and give bit more variety to hero health that I think would be neat.
Moira: Also had vaguely similar ideas with Moira. Instead of the accuracy damage change I'd give her damage falloff like a hitscan character while reducing her max range to about 16 meters, with the self heal also being proportional to range and nerfed overall to a max of 18 per second. Then for utility there's an idea that I got from her voicelines while doing damage for a passive I call "Parasitic Vitality" which would be sort of an inverse to Mercy's Sympathetic Recovery in that while dealing damage she'd apply a small anti-heal of around 10-15% but that portion of healing that's blocked would be given to her instead. Also to go further into the closer range playstyle you could incorporate her 2 melee animations by allowing her to use melee without interrupting her primary or secondary fire at the expense of it only dealing around 20 damage.
Zenyatta: I also feel he's in a good place but to me rather than reducing its effect on tanks it should instead be a bit less free (also yes make it have its old range). Instead of a hard cooldown which would not feel good to play with Zen's design you could have a soft cooldown that only happens if it's removed by someone other than Zen (i.e any cleanse, out of los, etc), where it will then be unable to be placed on that person specifically for a short time but can still be placed on others. As for kick I do feel that its boop distance should be decreased a bit but that it should also be faster, allowing you to act earlier after use (It's called "Snap Kick" after all). Also it's extremely intentional for Zen to not have any movement but his hitbox (especially his head hitbox) could definitely be shrunk a little.
Ana: Similar to Moira I think that a partial Anti-heal would be better than just a straight up nerf for its duration on tanks. Making it so that it only blocks 75% of healing and so 25% is still given to the target would allow it to still have impact without completely preventing healing.
Lifeweaver: As a Lipreader main I have a lot to say but I'll only say a few things. I think that the active heal is fine but that it should simply be less polarized, increase the charge speed to about 0.8 seconds, decrease the max healing to 70, and remove the idiotic slow when holding a fully charged heal. For the ammo I'd keep it but instead make it work like Sym's secondary fire where the longer you charge it the more ammo you use (ofc the ammo would be increased to compensate) and make it so that if you don't have a target upon releasing the charge or switch to your damage the ammo will be returned to the clip instead of getting wasted. Greater control over the petal is great but something else I want is for it to not block line of sight for Lifeweaver's healing. A problem I often have with Life Grip is that I'll grip someone, but they die before or immediately after being pulled, so what if the barrier gets applied immediately while also lingering for a moment after being pulled or they cancel it with a movement ability.
Bap: I think that Bap should have a few tweaks to his numbers such as increasing the recoil on his gun but otherwise, I had an idea that I originally thought of to rework Suzu but could also really work with Lamp. Instead of preventing you from going below a certain amount of health Lamp could prevent you from taking more than 20% of your max health at once. So a 200 HP hero in the Lamp, instead of taking damage and then becoming invincible for their last 50 health would instead be prevented from taking more than 40 damage at once. It wouldn't take armor or damage mitigation into the calculation, only the absolute value of their max health. Other than that I feel like Bap should move faster than the other characters while crouching to make better use of the exo boots.
is the slow while you have a full heal actually mentioned anywhere in his kit (i play him enough to know its a real thing i just dont see it anywhere in his kit) and yes its so dumb why does that exist
Some of the ideas on Moira involved doing morer DOT style of damage. IMO Lifeweavers autoattack should apply a small DOT to anyone it hits, stacking per hit up to X. There is a LOT of aoe healing in the game. Having a character impact that, even with 5dps DOT for even a second or two applied to several people could be huge, also allowing him to heal in-between application, and also have impact on the large amount of healing over time reducing the way fights drag out due to aoe healing.
I always wondered if we could give Mercy a passive called "Tailwind" where allies get a small temporary speed boost whenever she passes by them when using guardian angel. Could be too clunky but i always thought of having that as her passive
What if the orb once stuck to an enemy gives them a damage nerf percentage and sticking an ally gives them the lifesteal. You can balance it so the orbs stop their current heal or damage once stuck.
These suggestions genuinely made me chuckle.
Lifeweaver auto charge would mean having to double click mouse every time, one to choose the target for the charged heal, and then again to restart the charge, unless you want the auto charge to restart automatically.
Rather than an internal cool-down for the mercy heals, I think an internal growth meter (opposite of the decay) would be more fluid and intuitive.
Like crit heals from tf2, but based on when you healed them instead of damage.
I.e. mercy heals someone for 4 seconds until it decays to 30hps, mercy then heals other people for 2 seconds before returning to the first player, where the healing would start at 50hps and decay to 30hps again over the next 2 seconds.
You really made your own Marine DLC and no short-necked Plisiosaurus or Icthyosaurus
Me loving those ideas so much that im expecting them to be on the live servers next week,, LOL
The one important thing about Moira is that her long range attack is the main thing that refills her healing tank. If you nerf her range, then you unintentionally nerf how much she can heal in some cases. It does low damage for a reason so it makes the range more fair. At least if her healing resource meter stays the same. The range shouldn't be changed in my opinion.
2 suggestions for mercy changes to encourage movement that I think would be cool is the shorter the beam the stronger the healing and when she super jumps she leaves like a gust of air that lets allies hold jump to float up a bit
Or if the numbers are too hard to manage for the healing you can change it so she gives someone a healing boost for a short time when she touches them (on a cool-down ofc) or something like the lower her health the stronger her healing is to encourage a bit more risk/reward gameplay
@@ninjafluffdeluxI would like to see her melee heal like you see in the zero hour cinematic, in general I think their should be more melee interactions.
I think this would just make pocketing even more annoying. Personally I like the idea of diminishing returns with her beams, if she stays on the same player for more than 5 seconds then her beams slowly drop down to 70% effectiveness, only on that one player. And it takes 3 seconds of not beaming that player before it returns to 100%.
This means that she will have to play smart with teammate cooldowns and such, hopefully giving her more flow. Although this is a pretty big nerf so you would have to compensate in some other way.
on a sound design and supports I think the new support Illari needs to have a louder sound when the rifle is fully charged I have my music turned off and it's still hard to hear
I think a cool rework to Ana would be:
Nade & sleep dart on a shared but shorter cooldown. I think it would make for interesting decision making on Ana’s part & tanks don’t have to worry about getting bullied with both of her cooldowns every time they’re up
By shared cooldown i mean, you have to pick one and once you use it, they’re both unavailable until it’s back up.
The suggestions that amount to 'make it so i can slaughter this hero at will' are the most hilarious.
Listen, if your 'support rework ideas' make it so support sucks to play then your idea sucks.
@@jonasdowner What r u yapping about 😭 just say u don’t like the idea
One thing I thought of for Bap the other day was maybe limit the amount of final blows people can take inside the lamp before it breaks. Like it can save 2-3 times for those under the lamp and then it breaks. Reached its max so to say, but I don’t see it as a great change or even know how it would work. Just another idea
I think a general change to discord and a lot of abilities in general is that it doesn't apply to armor hp. This way the tanks that relies the most on their HP and therefore get screwed the most by discord can't be discorded before already being significantly chipped. Tanks like Zarya and Sigma that do not have armor aren't impacted as much by discord (as bubble cleanses it and the should be using more cover)
And tanks that get destroyed by discord like Winston, Dva, Ball and Rein get a good quality of life change.
The shield to block discord idea is so intuitive I was surprised it isn't even in the game already.
Spilo back again to bless us with his knowledge😩
Think Bap’s burst could maybe apply a small heal to himself while making his heal hitscan rather than projectile. Could be a fun twist to give him flexibility, but maybe too weak overall.
Think for Zen one small change would be needing to have the hero centred (or near) on your crosshair to discord. Sometimes you can be jumping around him and get it applied. Would like to see him look and make that choice to go for the ability.
Really like the Moira changes. Projectiles that stick seem good. I like requiring the self heal to be tied to a damage org. More interplay and thought for the Moira.
Ana a weird idea is a shared CD between her nade and sleep. You can buff it as needed, but in 5v5 especially might solve that issue of tanks eating both. Have to choose one but the one is either better or CD is a little shorter overall.
I haven't watched the moira section yet, but change damage to a projectile; keep healing the same. Lastly make orb not heal or deal damage specifically but have it effect the dmg and healing, maybe the healing and damage put stacks on the characters hit with them then they erupt when the orb comes near them dealing aoe dmg or maybe damage reduction instead of healing?
I always wondered if they changed anti-nade to reduce the amount of healing received by a target instead of a flat 'no healing'. I feel like that would fix the tank problems without damaging her 1v1 potential
As a mercy main I can honestly say your rework to blue beam is really well thought out have attack reload speed, cd reduction, movement speed
Moira ideas were nice
zen hitbox reduction really needed and he hovers so maybe allow him like bap exo boots to hover higher to get to high ground
Bap making lamp damage reduction honestly good idea
Lifeweaver the heal should be like illari gun for sure with unlimited ammo. The cleanse and other buffs u reccomended really good
I think samito take on “dlc” hero’s having high aoe healing and immortality abilities is what makes support role broken. (Moira brig bap would need a rework to their aoe heal)
For moria, I would make the damage orb do less damage but have it mark the enemy for the whole team so the orbs can be used as a scouting tool. The heal orb can be thrown maybe to a teammate far away and it hits them you can can get a speed boost towards them or refresh your fade maybe? For her succ, i would make it a skill shot in a sense she launches a tendril and if she lands the shot she can do damage and a headshot tendril gives self heal but reduce the range so people can fight back by getting out of range or out of line of sight.
The biggest change I want for sleep (at least on tanks if not on everyone, but I know on squishies this could mess up some burst followups which isn’t really necessary on squishies) is the actual wake up animation is too long. It sucks to be playing a character that’s supposed to *briefly* engage multiple targets and die with all your cooldowns available because you got slept and bursted down from full before you could react, and it just isn’t enough of a skillshot to warrant that much value.
You start off saying Mercy only appeals to a small percentage of players... doesn't she have the most playtime of any character in the game???
That small minority basically only play mercy, many have thousands of hours on her and like a few hundred on their next most played. Some have like less than one hundred on their next closest which is usually Moria Ana or Brig
no thats Ana, and even then thats 1 out of *38* heroes, even a significant amount of hours is nothing split 38 ways.
No she hasn’t been the favorite for a long time
i LOVe the movement,reload,cooldown boost idea for mercy
Preface to this, I main tank. I really don't like how much power is being put into the tank passive instead of individual tanks. If tanks get too much more they reduce cc/status effects passivily I would prefer if there was a check/balance to it. My brain storm idea is the passive only applies while you have none basic hp. Armor, temp health, shields, things like that. After that nerf I feel like you can go crazy on the tank passive
just a random idea for the discord orb, prehaps someone who has been under the effect of a discord orb can't have it applied again on them for a certain amount of time.
I just realized that the mercy rework sounds a lot like medic from tf2 with a kritskreig or something to that affect
37:06 if you hold the heal for more than 1 second you get a 25% slow
I think petal platform would be cool if when it breaka it fires out low damage over time needles. This means you could also use it offensively and add some nuance to when use it for mainly movement or purely to throw at the enemy team for damage or in a 1v1.
I dont like the idea of boost beam giving move speed/fire speed because it would throw off a lot of dps players tempo and aim.
An idea I had for moira, a smoke bomb that covers allies from enemy team but allies can see all enemies not covered by walls I also think it might have a slight healing buff I think this could also hid abilities like immortality field I think that could give her some utility
For zen what if discord only has damage boost if the ally fighting that discorded enemy has healing orb
And that ally with healing orb only gets heals if they fight the discorded enemy
How about making Lamp a single target buff(1-2 sec?) that prevents the death once and heals the target by 50-75 hp?
i like the projectile rez idea a lot. in the COD zombies map origins the elemental staffs have an upgrade where you can flip the staff upside down and shoot a revive at a downed teammate. a similar concept seems like it could work really well here. i feel like she needs an identity other than damage boost. perhaps her right click could be changed to give an ally a pair of wings? allowing them to fly briefly or jump higher. mercy is a character about her movement, i feel like she should have some movement utility she can give to her team. rez should also bring tanks back with half health.
I like the idea of leaning into some melees with Mercy (and even Zen), but I think there should be a charge aspect if you want to hit that “tase” or boop ability. Even with Zen, I think snap kick should boop in proportion to how long it’s charged. Creates more decision and risk v reward, keeps a simple quick melee for emergencies, makes the balance smoother because the damage/utility scales with time, and you can even make it cancellable after a certain charge point to create mind games. That’s how certain projectiles and hits work in fighting games, and those abilities create a lot of dynamism.
With Moira for skills with her right click or how she shoots make it to where its a needle projectile and once it hits you will be able to take there health. That way she can have a head shot skill that could increase her damage. I domt know her raw DPS stats but for an example a head shot would be 50 dmg and the body would be damage than its damage per second is more for a head shot than a body shot. This way you could have some skill. So if she disengages she could shoot it from a distance.
ana speed boost on nano brings back beyblade reaper memories lol
Get rid of rez and replace her E with a 70 damage beam shot on a 4 second cooldown. It doesn't interrupt any other actions such as staff, pistol, and GA. This would also work well with the overclocking ult idea, maybe increasing the damage to 120 and giving it piercing and maybe a damage over time.
This would just give mercy something to do and look out for while she was healing/damage boosting. You could also combine that with a diminishing returns system where her beam loses effectiveness on a certain player if used for too long on said player.
Edit: Just got to the part where spilo introduces a diminishing returns healing idea.
My idea for a Mercy "rework" was to take ML7's experimental patch, and alter the numbers a bit.
So Valkyrie became her ability and rez was on her ultimate. Valkyrie was single target however the numbers ML7 did were terrible, My version is a 15sec cooldown ability, 7-8sec duration, with 75hp/s and 30% dmg boost. HOWEVER, it was single target, not AOE like it is currently. Rez was now her ultimate again but ML7 left the 1.75 sec cast time but it was AOE and could rez multiple people. For my version I would simply leave it single target and just make the cast instant. Lastly, I'd revert ALL of the GA cooldown nerfs they did, so her GA was now back to Season 2-3 of OW2. So now she can perform between as a support, by still having the same kit (which is less work for the devs) just moved around a bit, with better numbers on her healing whilst leaving rez to be infrequent, have an ultimate barrier rather than a cast time (which often times is a self destruct for the Mercy player). This allows for Mercy to be that triage healer. You could also argue to nerf damage boost even more, or rework it into that projectile ability we saw in the PVE talent demo during one of blizzards PVE livestreams in 2021/2022, as to force her into that triage style and not just now having a super buffed pocket style.
One of Mercy's main flaws is her output numbers being too low to be a main healer (Bap, Ana, Moira, Illari, Lifeweaver) but not enough bullshit game changing utility like Zen and Lucio, cause rez is basically not useable without you dying 90% of the time. This means that she sits in the middle when building a team comp, meaning she can only be paired with either Doomfist or Wrecking ball, cause your healing output is nowhere near enough to sustain any other tank, which is why poke comps with Sigma just aren't a thing you see very much of, cause everyone is spread out and Mercy/Zen is like the only support lineup that favours that style, with Mercy unable to sustain that comp when the global damage of the game has outscaled her entire kit.
Can't really speak for the Mercy, Moira, and LW changes since I don't play them but I like the other ones. It's refreshing that you have practical ideas that don't just involve completely gutting every support character like most people seem to want.
Maybe Moira could gain ramp up to dmg from her spray heals, similar to how Furia from paladins gets faster fire rate from how much she is healing.
An idea I had for Bap's shift is to change it to be a horizantal version of his Exo-Boot Jump and call it Exo-dash. To compensate, both Exo-jump and Exo-dash would provide him with a small self heal and his healing grenades would get a buff to both their AOE size and healing amount.
This leans into his already selfish nature and gives him more ways to use his fun Exo boots while the compensation buffs bolster the one way he already helps his team.
problem with zens hitboxes is kinda an overlap of how hitboxes are done as a whole
with legs having quite a bit bigger hitboxes so its easier to hit them
and zen not wanting to walk like others
is floating like that
basically turning into a flying practice target to be easily hit
My personal take for a Mercy rework which is similar to some of your ideas for similar reasons but I think simplifies it down to one core concept: both heal beam and damage boost beam spike initially in potency to the target if you just GA'ed to them, but then both drops off in intensity dramatically from there. So that way 1.) Mercy has a source of burst healing, though limited by GA cooldown 2.) damage boosting a DPS would instead reward you for your game-sense: If you see an ally about to make a big play and you can GA to them for a super-boost at just the right time--- that could be some more interesting active play-making potential right there. Basically rewarding/encouraging Mercies to fly around to allies to give optimal spikes in value via gamesense timing and movement tech and punishing passive stand-behind-a-corner-and-hold-beam pocketing with very low output in value.
Didn't personally have any thoughts on reworking rez but out of the suggestions you had I think I like the "halo" option the best, as long as enemies can see who has the halo so you have some counterplay around it. It's the one that I think maintains the aesthetics of how rez functions to maintain Mercy's identity more while trying to improve on some of the issues with that ability.
For Moira her Biotic the way it works now is fine I would just change the hit sphere to gradually reduce over time the longer it is fired, requiring more accuracy so like once fired initial second its as it is then gets smaller and smaller until its close to a single point after say 3 seconds, stop firing will have its size revert back at the same or slightly faster rate, this keeps her easy at entry level but requires Aim skill to keep it there for full effect, and from the targets point gives them a reason to move evasively. because in many cases its better to just stand still to ensure your shots land to kill her before hand. I also feel the self heal should be removed from it as she has enough self heal and would encourage more yellow orb use,
watching this vid gave me an Idea for her heal spray. what if her heal easier stays as it is now as far as targeting or works like her purple beam as far as targeting goes, but you are effectively painting a yellow orb on the target that ether works like a normal yellow orb but stuck to a player. or it gives a leeching effect to the target that heals the player as they do damage to the target. I also likes the last Halloween or whatever event that enables you to pause or stop orb movement, that could be made a thing also. I also feel her orbs should fade faster if she is not alive, we all have those stray deaths to the dam things lol
I love Moiras kit tho I don’t wanna drop the high movement
I have a lot to say about this video some good, some bad but overall this video and ideas are really really good and I appreciate it ALOT. Very well spoken and handled amazingly!
nano giving speed is simmilar to its release version. that lead to that reaper lucio ana meta.
on lw: i think that the weapon swap is integral to the character. i think most suggested changes are unneccessary 4 him. one thing that feels almost like a bug is that placeing the pettle doesnt work with only one input whenever charging the heal(you have to do one input to cancel the heal and then pettle which feels stupid and has killed me sooo often:(). the pettle decend is sooo smart.
As someone who has mained both these creatures in the past - these are awesome. I loveeeee some of the Moira ideas specifically. She'd be like a more heal-central Zen which would go a long way to do away with the DPS Moira trope/hate since I feel like even PICKING Moira can get you flamed in the lower ranks even if you're outperforming the rest of the healers. I also love the rez-ult or skillshot rez idea and can relate that Mercy's movement is THE REASON you pick Mercy, and I haven't done that for about three seasons because there isn't a single healer that doesn't bring more to the table now. Very very cool talk!!
I appreciate your thoughtful, considerate approach to hero design/balance. In a sea of dumb, thoughtless ideas, it's nice to hear someone who understands the nuances of Overwatch game design.
Good ideas to start with! My biggest problem with the Mercy ideas is that putting an internal cooldown per character on any skill feels awful. It is the case right now with Sombra's hack and it's one of the jankiest feeling gameplay aspects of hers right now, so putting that same thing on something as critical as healing is a big no no. Not only that, but unlike Hack, healing can sometimes be super necessary for much longer periods of time.
I do love the idea of her ult being an "auto-life". Perhaps something like Illari's ult or an aura like Transcendence which gives allies in the AoE th Halo effect, giving them a strong HoT and also the reraise buff for 3-5s, which could give Mercy the ability to make massive defensivr plays.
Ofc this would need to get rid of Res as a cooldown, which in turn could be replaced by an "overclock" mechanic for her heal and boost, which strengthens the effects: extra healing and leaving a HoT after disattachment, and extra movement, cooldown, and reload speed with a lingering effect so she could potentially buff two people at the same time. Alternatively, make her small Valkyrie burst on this new ability to let the effect of th beam active on the target linger for 3 seconds or which would encourage her at the very least to be continuously flying between two or more targets, and would also force her to have a more direct decision making on who to use her cooldowns at what times.
For bap, what about a charge on his right click heal? He shoots three shots so a charge can take three ammo but will make him shoot at a much faster speed to help hit farther targets?
lamp being a damage reduction is the best idea i've heard yet. sounds balanced on both sides because for the teammates in it, it forces bap to temporarily focus on pumping out heals than trying to DPS (a common bap issue) & the counter play is just to work together and overload the damage reduction. great work 👍🏽
I think for mercy rez should be a Suzu esque ult and damage boost should be swapped for the speed reload and fire rate boost
Boost is a fun idea, same for encouraging moving
My duo is a mercy main, and we've talked about this extensively. These are some of the ideas we've come up with:
1. Get rid of damage boost as a continuous beam ability. Instead, left click heals, right click is an ability that does a small amount of damage. Something like a staff bash that does 30-40 damage and potentially applies slow for 1-1.5 seconds. This would be a great close range disengagement tool.
2. Delete rez and replace it with some kind of damage boosting utility, with less potency and more risk than the current damage boost. This would not be a continuous beam but something like an AoE damage boost (similar to Lucio or Brig but boosts damage instead of heals), or a single target ability that damage boosts a teammate for a certain percentage (similar to discord but on a teammate).
3. Get rid of valkyrie and replace it with an ult that takes advantage of mercy's movement and gives mercy the ability to either do some damage or provide some kind of utility to the team. During the ult, mercy can potentially GA to any visible target, including the enemy team. We've talked about naming the ult "angel of death", and her staff turning into a scythe for 6-10 seconds. If we want to stay away from mercy being damage oriented, the scythe could apply a "reaper's mark" to players that are hit by the scythe. This would be close range, and apply some kind of debuff.
4. Remove sympathetic recovery or build a new passive that increase survivability, but not to the extent it does currently.
Looking at Moira, there might be something to the idea of there being a benefit to tracking targets more accurately - What if the damage on her right click could ramp up, but only if and while you keep your crosshair on target? There aren't really any heroes in the support roster that reward tracking aim, and that could be a fun way to add that.
Other ways to reward tracking aim on support would be to give Mercy's pistol a smaller hitbox and ammo pool but a higher headshot multiplier, and have Lifeweaver's heals charge themselves while his thorn volley homes in on his crosshair.
Love a lot of these changes! Some very creative ideas, not just boring number changes or ability reverts.
I've had an idea for a while now that Mercy's res should be removed and replaced with an ability that lets her shield her beam target(s). Let's say, 100 overhealth for 2 seconds on a 10 second cooldown, but obviously numbers can be changed. The idea is that instead of saving a dead ally, you should be able to protect them while they're still alive. She is a GUARDIAN angel after all. Plus, giving a group of allies all shields for 2 seconds during Valkyrie will make the ult feel MUCH more impactful, giving Mercy a much smaller and shorter Lucio beat that could be used twice during ult. Powerful? Yes, absolutely, but so is res, and I feel as though players would feel the ability is more fair than res.
Btw, this ability should look like a burst of nanomachines being sent through the beam to the target to envelop them, similar to when Mercy touches Mei to heal her in the "Zero Hour" cinematic
I think moira heal orb would be really cool if you could shoot it at an ally like zen orb and it would emit a healing over time aura, as if the target were releasing Moira’s heal spray themselves. It decays over 5 seconds and goes from healing a decent amount down to 0 (maybe 30 hps at the start idk). Then, I would change damage to another discord like shot that would do not pass through shields, small flat dot, allows moira to suck the target from further but would give her the ability to suck through shields. It would wear off after the same amount of time as heal orb and be on a but shorter of a cooldown. Her normal suck would have shorter range and a weaker aim lock. For heal spray, the resource would be significantly reduced with a faster charge time, almost like illari heals. Heal over time would stay
18 min into this and OMG the mercy rework sounds great, especially Rez being a projectile ultimate and boost being on a meter fueled by healing. Lovely ideas that translate better into skill than her current kit. I'd love Valk to be a short overdrive ability too.
Im actually fine with how his healing works by holding and release. The problems Im not a big fan of is his projectile speed of his weapon and how slow it takes to swap between heal and dmg. I feel like if they made hos weapon projectile speed better, he would be great.
I would love a support that give reload speed amp. Maybe would be too OP idk. But we have speed amp, damage amp, immortality, anti etc. I hate having to reload for a Long time unless i get Elims on dps or theres a kitsune ult
Moira skill floor is lower the IC of the people who play her and it’s very frustrating when I playing a hard hero like Ana or Lucio and my other support is diff me but he’s on Moira
I'm not high ranked but I have been playing mercy since sesason 3 overwatch 1. Here are the changes that I liked that were mentioned and even maybe some of my own that I think could work somehow.
Note: all numbers are placeholders and obviously can be changed. I'm more just stressing the ideas.
Mentioned Changes:
Staff:
Healing:
Higher initially then drops off over time. Rewards jumping around healing from target to target and less on pocketing. Specifically your tank like how I see a lot of lower rank mercy's do.
Boosting:
Drops damage boost in place for movement speed, ability, and reload reductions. Nice to have someone other than lucio helping people engaging or dis-engaging. Helps with making boost more effective across the cast rather than only for a select pool of characters. Fixes a lot of the damage thresholds in higher ranks. A meter for this I don't think would work as if your teammates aren't taking any damage then you are just kinda useless. That and in my eyes boost would just become a more utility lucio speed song for one person specifically so i think being able to keep that connection constant in my eyes is fine. Yes this would mean that mercy still has some of that "pocket" play style to her but with a hero about beaming target allies part of that is just going to be in her kit regardless. Rather my goal you'll see is to make those "pocket" moments more impactful during shorter bursts rather than overall.
GA:
I personally like a lot of the easier movement but the GA meter is unnecessary. You shouldn't be punished for being on top of your teammate all the time. There are times where standing near them is a good idea against flank dps like tracer, genji, sombra.
Valk:
Personally I think a lot of Valk should remain the same and I think a lot of mercy players would agree with me on this in terms of just being able to fly around, see more, help people more effectively, and in aggressive positions. I'd say the only thing that would be needed to make it more effective is just to increase the numbers on the healing and boost and then i think the ultimate will have more of an impact.
Pistol changes:
Projectile speed and damage inc. Let's be honest this pistol is ass. Buffing it would help with surviving against those flankers a bit more. Similar to what zen got with the melee changes. Enough to where good players could improve the changes of survival but not enough to where they are un-killable. Also would give more intensive to valk pistol a target to get the kill at the expense of not boosting your teammates.
New changes:
Rez:
There were some good ideas with the rez projectile and other ideas mentioned but personally i think there is only two ways this can go and yes both of them don't involve rez.
Option 1: Similar to Kiriko, Mercy would be able to make her beam target invulnerable. This would last probably around 3-5 seconds and would be on a 10 second cool down. This would only make it so that the beamed target would not be able to take any damage and cleanse debuffs but could still be knocked back and down by any boops, shatter, etc. Catches to the ability. This ability ends if the beam connection breaks or changes and of course if you are killed. This will be high risk/reward to aggressive play but can also be used defensively against high incoming damage on your ally. This ability would not be able to chain in valk (for obvious reasons).
Option 2: This ability would overclock her staff and would last 3-5 seconds with a 12 second cool down. This would significantly increase the healing of her staff allowing you to quickly heal an ally to keep them alive. Her boost would change to increase those boost numbers / percentages and add in that damage boost that was lost. Unlike option 1 this ability would be in effect even if the beam breaks allowing you to change between allies. This ability would not be usable in valk. If this option would be chosen for mercy's kit then the damage boost should be added in as part of the boost during Mercy's Valkyrie.
Both these options in my eyes provide more utility to mercy and helping allies in those smaller 1v1 or even 2v1 battles helping your teammate to swing the tide for just a couple seconds to either bail them out helping them get the kill. Personally option 1 would be nice just because it keeps a little bit of that rez / immunity aspect without it being too op but I think both can work as substitutes for rez.
The reason poke heroes tend to be Mercy's main pockets is that they can stay somewhat aggressive for a long time, and benefit from Mercy's ability to beam them indefinitely. They match the slow, constant tempo of her utility.
To make her switch targets and rotate more, I think Mercy needs a strict, limited resource to deliver to the more mobile, "in, attack, out, recover" heroes.
I'm thinking put damage boost on a meter (similar to D.Vas defense matrix), and add damage resistance as well as damage boost to it.
So her role would be to go deliver the boost to the high tempo frontline when they get aggressive, and when she has lots of resources, then fly back to the low tempo backline once she's low on resources.
It'd be like how with Ana you close into mid-range to deliver anti nade and / or sleep while you have the opportunity, then try to dissappear into the backline the rest of the time - she doesn't even have high mobility, but rotates constantly because of her strict resources and dynamic tempo.
I wanna see a zen levitate out of cover over a wall and get a 5 orb
here's my idea for a mercy utility to replace res, idk if anyone will see this but might as well. "protective wings" aim assisted projectile similar to mag grenade but targets teammates and creates a translucent angel wings motif, a teammate hit with this receives 25 hps for and + 10% move speed for 3 seconds and at any time during the ability mat press interact to be launched into the air and gain the glide passive until they land. the ability would have a 10 to 15 sec cooldown after it is completely over. If anybody sees this I'd love to hear what you think :)
The Moira changes are the best ones from this vid. I might have a slight interest in playing her with those reworks. The Zen changes would also be great. For Bap, it seems like his playstyle would be improved if you replaced his AR with a sniper rifle that healed your teammates and damaged your enemies at all ranges and if his lamp was replaced with a grenade that either buffed his healing output on a threatened target or damaged and prevented healing on an enemy.
Maybe we could give him a dart to cc people attacking him instead of his shift?
@@lukasg4807and let's also make him an older lady
Those changes are terrible lol
if you want to fix mercy you need to increase both floor and ceiling. make it so the beam needs to be aimed. make it so her movement at the very least needs to be slowed down before u you go in another direction. i do like the ress idea where you need to apply it before death
LifeWeaver I’ve played him almost exclusively season 5/6. Def decrease hitbox again agreed. He’s a massive support. For his HP, keep it at 225 but remove the 50 shields. Or got back to 200 but keep the 50 shield. 150hp/50 shield.
Remove spread all together in his damage and reduce it some. And YES auto charge heal, like a Mei icicle. Click it charges itself and fires when full. No scaled health. It his for 1 set number with a HoT.
Making an internal cooldown on healing/boosting the same guy constantly *should* be super easy. But they took like 2 months to nerf roadhog's damage which should've been a case of changing a single variable so idk...
Thank you for directly addressing the thing that pushed me away from playing Mercy even though she was a major part of what brought me to Overwatch in 2016 from TF2. Her flight is awesome, it makes me want to be a triage-healer, and I don’t want to be stuck to a Pharah all game. Her partial rework in OW2 S3 actually got me excited, as it gave me an excuse to heal tanks and move around the battlefield as I originally wanted. When they reverted that, I stopped playing her again.
Having a crit heals mechanic feels like it's the no brainer solution to her even now. Of course it doesn't fix her mobility issues or res or valk but it does a lot to make mercy not pocket people. But the less than 50% healing made her even more annoying when tanking another hero. Like her other support for example.
super cool ideas...as a mercy main i completely agree with the design philosophy of "make movement the important part of her kit, make decision making more engaging/risky/impactful" for mercy. i also agree completely with replacing rez as an ability. i know blizzard is really attached to the overwatch hero fantasies and theming, so theyll be reluctant to part with rez, but its not a fun ability on either side of a game and i think its worth it to keep trying to change it. its a little frustrating actually, because over the years a lot of rez replacements have been suggested by the community, including mercy players, but these ideas seem to get folded into new characters kits instead of a rework - the ideas for a cleanse ability like suzu and invulnerability abilities like baptiste lamp and suzu were often brought up as potential replacement ideas from popular mercy content creators for resurrect right after the mass rez rework, but it seems those abilities were decided to fit a new characters kit better.
for the rez replacement ideas, the only one im hesitant about is the halo. its a cool idea, but i think still extremely situational and difficult to use with frequency (too hard/too EASY to get value from, i think it could swing either way depending on the numbers) and im worried about how it would stack with immortality abilities. theres already an issue in game of stacking immortality, and im concerned that the halo could become another immortality that can be stacked on a teammate with little counterplay. still, i think its a cool direction, and could actually be palatable with blizzards design philosophy of retaining a heroes identity.
for blue beam replacements, i like all of the direction going towards incentivizing movement. i think boosting movement speed is tricky because unlike lucio speed boost, theres less agency from teammates to opt out of an effect that could mess up aim and movement (cant opt out of blue beam) and if we are to encourage switching beam targets, flicking blue beam as appropriate should feel as smooth as possible for the person at the end of it, and movement speed may be jarring if mercy is flicking even the way she sometimes does now. i also would want a replacement ability to make the trade off of surviving on mercy worth it even if i have to keep beam on 1-2 allies the whole time. there are some prefer beam target techs that i use to survive dives in solo ranked that require me to use one ally as a central tether while moving my camera around, and id miss using that knowledge tbh haha though its not as important as incentivizing movement and disincentivizing pocket overall
im essaying but thanks for a rlly cool vid :)
17:06 I made a similar concept for my Mercy Rework so I'll propose it for funsies
•HP decreased from 200 to 175
Guardian Angel:
•GA can be used to fly to a targeted direction with or without an ally.
•Using GA to fly to an ally has a 2.5 second CD.
•Using GA to fly to a targeted directio has 2 charges and a Cooldown of 3 seconds for each charge. Maximum range can be extended by holding down the ability which will however use 2 charges at once.
The idea is to add abit more depth to Mercy's movement while also making her more vulnerability just to not make her completely unkillable. This is apart of my Mercy Rework that focuses on her flying across the battlefield to heal her team, acting as a Triage Healer basically.
It seems to be a really common take for ppl to decrease mercys health and increase her mobility. Honestly? Im all here for it! I had the same ideas. 175 hp im a big fan of- ez punishment for bad movement. There should be punishment available for her movement as counterplay as otherwise she can accomplish lots , notice how tracer has high mobility yet also high value. Most high mobility characters have their other stats nerfed to balance it out. However making mercy follow this pattern of high mobility high utility opens up a huge window for error, and a huge window for carrying. The halo ultimate idea really requires good game sense to maximise this. You could put it on your tracer slept in enemy back line or you could put it on your rein who's close to shatter and needs to play aggro for it. I think moments like this are what would give massive amounts of respect to mercy players, and would give them skill-based impact. I think even if it's easy to apply, that's honestly fine because it still takes knowledge to get worth from it. A mercy who just throws it at her widow and mistimes it, means that she's wasted it and her widow dies anyways.
Huge fan of this spilo vid, and of the comments like this under it
Basically id love for her to be similar to tracer in the way that:
High mobility ≠ high survivability
@@yuhhbaby3179 love your insight on this 💕
mercy should be rewarded for good movement by increasing the depth and skill of it but more punishable for misusing it. one way to punish bad movement is an HP nerf which would force a mercy player to be smart with their movement, positioning, timing etc.
i also think the halo ult idea sounds good! though my concerns would be that it'd feel awful when your teammate doesn't follow up on it. maybe make it an ability though i imagine that to be quite difficult to balance. for mercy's ultimate in general i struggle to come up with something that feels good, is impactful and rewards skill (mass rez checks the first two but not the last, valk checks not any of them. not saying it feels bad or doesn't reward any skill expression but it doesn't feel that good and is also not the hardest thing to pull off. the only time i've enjoyed valk is for pulling off a stall + clutch rez in ot)
@@yuhhbaby3179 yes yes this is imo the way to go about her movement!
@@momdad1818 you bring up valid concerns! and thankyou for your response!
For Ana. I would reduce the splash on her nade. It’s pretty wide and not difficult to hit multiple enemies. keep the anti heal, but maybe remove the healing buff for allies.
Sleep dart, I’m ok with. It is her most skill intensive ability. Less forgiving than her primary/secondary fire. Maybe 3 seconds sleep for tanks, 4 seconds anything else. Or 4 seconds for dps and 5 seconds on support.
One of my favorite silliest/riskiest things to do with lifeweaver is agressive pulls for my tank. Almost like a Lucio using speed boost to engage, but instant travel time. Sad part is, i deserve to die for this almost every time. It would be SUPER cool if my dash went further in exchange for whatever necessary nerf, because then id be massively rewarded for my ability to infiltrate the backlines, pull my Rein or Ram in, and then dash to safety.
I think lower damage on the moira lifesteal orb would encourage using it on tanks, it's not worth risking hitting the genji for only 50 dmg, so I might as well use it for tank.
My thing with the change mentioned at 14:27 is that it makes it entirely frustrating to help a dps for 1v1s, which is kind of a part of Mercy's gameplay. No other support gets a healing dip except maybe Moira when she runs out of resources, and I think it wouldn't feel good to watch your healing quickly do less and less as it's just you and the last dps on point. Maybe if Mercy had another resource besides straight up right click to help (like Bap's shift or Ana's nade) I could see a case for it. But another problem with that is trying to support a team that's taking a lot of damage - if your internal meter is worn for most the team, you would essentially be doing nothing even if you are zipping around the map. Maybe an overclock ability would remedy this.
I like the other changes to Mercy, especially the Rez ideas (Halo in particular), but I think it'd be a frustrating transition for metal rank players because these require a little more coordination/communication, which metal rank players aren't always the best at. Which might be fair when characters like Ana are still popular picks despite requiring more technicality.