Preparing to Mix in REAPER Part 2: Gain Staging
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- čas přidán 26. 05. 2021
- In this episode, we'll continue discussing preparing to mix in REAPER and move to the initial gain staging portion. This video is a quite bit longer than my usual offering, i initially intended to do a live stream but I have not been able to find the right time. Hopefully it helps, as this topic can become confusing really quick.
NOTE: I am by no means an expert at gain staging. There are many methods, this is just the way that I currently begin a mix. This is subject to change over time as I learn more and adopt possibly more efficient methods. If nothing else, this should be a good primer for demystifying gain staging and helping you to learn some tips and tricks and start developing a process that works for you.
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STEMS USED IN THIS VIDEO:
"Who's Who in Hell" by Last Legacy
Multitracks provided by Cambridge Music Technology
cambridge-mt.com/ms/mtk/#Last...
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#reaper #mixing #gainstaging #daw - Hudba
Lol 😂 Thanks for the tutorial, I like the stark contrast of your calm explanation, the spa trans background sound, and then mixing a death metal sample track 😝
Amazing video man, thank you. Just thought I'd share my own tip for gain staging in Reaper in case it might help someone because my mixes have improved a lot since doing this. What I do first is actually normalize all the tracks by selecting them all, double clicking, going to "item processing" then "normalize" What this does is automatically adjust the volume of every track to make them all common gain. Then I will glue the tracks, Listen through and see where I'm peaking the loudest then turning the tracks down by that number + an additional 6dB. So for example, after making the tracks common gain and gluing them, if my loudest peak is +3.9dB over 0 then I will lower the tracks down together by -9.9dB. I like having my tracks at common gain with the loudest peak at -6dB. This ensures that I always have 6 to 12 dB of headroom and that my signal will hit my plugins at perfect volumes without being too loud or too quiet. This method is clean, quick, accurate and it's a lot faster than having to sit there listening to/adjusting every track manually.
(EDIT: forgot to add that where I’m looking for that headroom is on the master bus. Not the individual tracks)
Thank you
THIS! Thank you lmao.
How on earth am I only just finding this channel. After watching several tutes on gain staging I was still totally lost. Not now though - thanks 👍🏻
Thank you! Fair warning, I am not an expert on the subject, just sharing little things here and there as I continue my journey of learning and enjoying REAPER.
Glad it helps!
Thanks very much for this, from a fellow Torontonian.
Thank you, Mike. I only use Reaper for a couple of things, and wasn't sure how to adjust the gain. Yours was the only video that got straight to the point. Much appreciated.
Ctrl Alt click, for Exclusive solo. Always something in your vids that makes me go "Damn!". Thanks Myk.
I like to add those little things in case my main point is way off base, that way there's at least something of value in each video 🤣
I found peace at last. I have been wandering around searching for a video like this and now I can finally end my search . Thanks man 🤘🏻.
Thank you Myk for this video I'm very new too reaper. I'm coming from a very different daw, & your videos are helping me a ton to understand the ins & outs of Reaper.
Thank you this helps me in my DAW as well.
I really hope that you keep mixing this song from A to Z in a few months we will know every step you did and how really pro do mix
Myk I really love your content
thank you.
Oh, I'm far from pro, this is just a hobby that I hope to get better at. It's just fun to have some friends on the journey as we all learn from each other.
I do okay, but I am hoping to gain consistency above all else.
This is an excellent lesson!
I had one look at you in the thumbnail and I knew you'd know your shit. Thanks for the help, great video.
Another great video Myk!!!
thank you!
Thanks! Very useful!
Nice song!!! For an oligarch's wedding
I appreciate you Bro.. I for sure learned something
Thank you!
Just found your channel bro. Awesome tips on reaper! Thanks
Hey, thanks for stopping by!
great....,like the way u think. I see how software colours the way you work.👍
Great video! Which theme is that?
I was doing the right click on the fader +15db +22 db method on my tracks and pulling back the bus or the master fader. But now i will try gain staging, yepp i was lacking headroom.
That scream vocal is scarier than fuck. Thank you for tonight's nightmare.
Nicely explained Myk, and I use pretty much the same method and targets - I will admit though that however well I gain stage, more than once later in a mix I've had to select all the faders in unison and bring 'em down a notch or two...
Thank you! I was quite nervous about this video, as gain staging, at least to me, is incredibly difficult to explain. I figure in a nutshell, its just turning things down before they hit faders and plugins so you can have room for your plugins, parallel compression, etc, to work without clipping. Such a delicate subject.
If you made it through to the end, i feel I owe you a coffee. In retrospect, i probably could have picked a more widely accepted genre to demonstrate, but i have enjoyed playing with these multitracks, as they present some interesting challenges.
@@LetsTalkAboutReaper I think you verbally nailed a good explanation in the first few minutes, and then showed a detailed demonstration of the practice in action.
I know that the concept of getting the levels right before they hit the mixer was a "wow" concept for me. I'm certainly no expert or audio guru, and you and show it well. Cheers!
I'm a longtime tinkerer, but still just a novice. This kinda blew my mind. I had always heard of gain staging, but didn't know details. All I know is I have always been confused as to why I always experienced clipping on the master bus despite feeling like I still couldn't hear anything. Game changer!
For the sake of the sound, prioritize the "no clipping on the master track" rule. For the sake of it being too quiet and needing to hear it, that's a monitoring issue and should be solved by turning up your speakers
Great video Mike. Question - could you just use the SWS Loudness Extension and normalise all tracks (to say -23 LUFS) as a shortcut to achieve similar result? Thanks
Absolutely! There's not really any hard and fast rules for how to get to the end result, as the primary objective really is just to make sure you're not clipping the master right out of the gate.
Nice video mate i use this method too its very easy and you can also split regions and use the volume in this areas whats your theme you are using?
Thank you. The theme is called My Taste and is my current favorite with R6 default as a close second.
forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=250592
This was great video better then Kenny and is confusing cloud of mystery
thank you! be sure to check part 3, it get a bit better. at least i think so :)
why not using directly the normalization we have now the choice Lufs, dB, dBtp, RMS ?
what about the sweet spot to enter into the plugin, some needs more than others so how do we handle that coz we don't really know except some now adding a led green orange red to get thte best ?
What do you think about Ayaic Mix monolith doing the job based on Lufs ?
thanx
I like using Hornet VU meter to gain stage my tracks. Saves a lot of time.
Does it work well for drums for you? A friend did a video showing it and it seemed to work well for less transient material. At least I think this was the plugin he reviewed.
Does it have the auto gain function?
Excelent video! , what skin is that on reaper ?
Thanks!
The theme is My Taste. It's available in the REAPER stash. I have more info on the variations and how to install it here
czcams.com/video/pqc8F7e11Uw/video.html
I think that this is the main problem I am having in my mixes. I am starting in this fantastic world, and I was totally unaware of gain staging. Maybe what come next is a very dumb question, but why do you turn down the volume that way instead of just moving the knobs in the mixing panel?
Not a dumb question at all, my friend.
With everything gain staged to a similar relative level, first off, you know pretty much how loud every track will be at unity. This has an interesting effect in that it truly helps you to plan your mix, so to speak. It's quite settling to the mind, and you'll start to find that you have much less moving to do with the faders after proper gain staging, but this brings me to the next point.
Fader resolution.... Moving your fader a small amount down from unity reduces the volume a small amount. But the lower you go, you'll notice you don't have as fine of control. For example, the same physical distance moved closer to the bottom of the fader may be a 10db reduction, whereas near the top, that movement may be 2db.
I am not sure if I really worded any of that quite right, I suppose what I am trying to say is that on top of giving you headroom, it allows you to make much more refined movements.
This might be a good starting point...
Action > Item properties: Normalize items (peak/LUFS/RMS)
LUFS-S max
-20 (or whatever works best)
I tried that before and didn't like the results . Curious to try it again as it is entirely possible that I did something wrong.
Tried @StevieBoyesmusic recommendation, and it worked well. Make sure to highlight track or tracks prior to the action.
I now think LUFS-M (momentary) actually works better for this. (It's closer to VU meter speed?)
@@StevieBoyesmusic I'll give it a try and compare. Thanks
Hey nice video and explanations!
But why do you gain stage the clip volume and not with the track faders? I'm just thinking about using the session as a template. You'll have the same tracks but different clips which seems like a problem for me. Or is there a possibility in reaper to copy or print the clip gain for the template?
Best regards
Hey, thanks for the comment.
I do this at the clip level first in case things were tracked a bit too hot or perhaps too low so I get the level I want before hitting the plugins and faders. This way, I have the full resolution of the faders available.
For example, if the bass were tracked really hot and was near clipping before any plugins are inserted, I need to control that level ahead of everything else in order for plugins to behave appropriately and really even to get proper use of the fader, because the fader is the last thing that is hit before the sound moves on to the master. So if I do this using the faders, the plugins are still receiving too loud or soft of a signal and ultimately I end up chasing the fader and juggling things to try to correct an issue that should be addressed before we start adding plugins and mixing.
Hope that helps!
@@LetsTalkAboutReaper thank you very much for the answer! I knew there was something I wasn't paying attention to.
Makes perfect sense.
But when all clips would have a good level, nothing too hot or low, would you recommend also this method:
You could use e.g. a gain/level plugin (JS: volume smoother e.g.) as first fx on the tracks, if you want to adjust the level. Because when there are different songs of an album, but recorded all with the same instruments, all the same way and with the same gain level, then you can use this as a template and don't need to turn the gain knob every time you mix another song of the album, right?
Or is there a possibility in reaper to make a template of the clip gain level of the tracks?
Thank you in advance!
Hey Myke, What is your master meter setting... will gain stage similarly to you.. you're some time meter coming into the channel.. some times i just normalize to -20. But that said i will mix into my mastering chain on the master. my master bus is set at -14 and everything else is metered at -18. that =14 give me plenty of room for delivery at other formats. Making mastering easier. a lot of times i am mixing multi tracks made from stages splits into dedicated multi track machines Tascam X48.. i do a lot of live recording and mixing for everything from DVD to broadcast or web cast that get resync'd to video so my recoding levels always need to be strong with peaks around -6 every where. so restaging is important when remixing later. For me it also depends on the instrumentation too. sometimes the mics are just awesome, some times they are not depending on the act. if i can get a true capture of the mic i am really good to go.. i can gain stage later. and that is beautiful thing.. then after all that general gain stuff, i start to re-examin the gain trough my plugins.. I love it.. not to mention like @Chalkboard Jam Tracks, i will pull em all down like he does, or i might just at some point just duck the masters and rebalance when i have my inputs right and my eq's right . But i agree is it a black art. i think once you get a work flow down you stick to it.. I also love watching you guys because i get little tips here and there and get a feel for what and how you do it.. i always learn something. I think that is the most important thing. It improves your mixing and you adapt a style. well thanks man.. i can go on for hours cause it is more fun than i should be allowed to have. Not to mention the Discord stuff, love it all. Thanks for sharing your techniques blessings to all you guys. < J
Default settings, I have not edited any meter settings at all. Probably doing SOMETHING wrong but it works for me 🤣
How do I set my mixer boundary edit line from default grey to blue?? That’s so cool!
Not sure I understand the question. Can you explain a bit more, or find me on the Discord server where we can post screenshots and discuss?
discord.gg/TqBwsaJdWp
my project in reaper sounds really quiet and sound less detailed compared to my references, yet when you play it, my headset and my monitor speakers kind of clips even if it is really not that loud. when i play my references like songs of popular artists like mudvayne, im able to crank the volume without hearing any clippping or static or cracking sound.
for example, if a mudvayne song is at level 10 at volume level, it will sound loud but in a pleasant way , well detailed, punchy, no distortion or clipping. My project however, will begin to clip at level 6 volume, but isnt really that loud and detailed. if i crank it at 10, my speakers will begin to distort to the point that you will hear 90% distorted sound, 10% the song itself. each track are set to -6db and none of them are clipping. i really dont know what to say or how to describe it better but thats aboutt it
2:58 that´s clip gain. What about if I have many different clips on one track? Will I have to adjust the clip gain knob in every single clip?? Is there not a track gain knob too so that I can adjust all the different clips before they hit the plugins at once? Cheers! :)
There is not a track gain knob by default, but if you'd like to have one, just add JS: Volume Adjustment (I think that's what it's called, not at my computer) as the first plugin in your FX chain. You can also save that ad a default track template if it's something you always want to have on every track.
I saw that you responded but YT auto deleted the comment :(
If there was a link in the comment, you may need to repost without. Unfortunately YT automatically moderates some things quite aggressively and I have no control over it.
You can also double left click the track and it will select all clips on the track so that when you turn down the clip gain it turns it down on all the clips on the track simultaneously
Hey when you lower the volume on any track because is clipping or the way you saying just to keep all on level but how about to ad volume when the level is low
You can increase the volume using item volume if the source is too quiet by using "volume knobs" in the items instead of the default top handle.
I'll have to rewatch this video to see if I covered that 🤔
@@LetsTalkAboutReaper my bad you did i little bit explanation at 12:04
Can you only gain stage in Reaper if all your tracks hold wav files? Can't you gain stage with VST's on the track?
You can use trim plugins to adjust gain. Many would say you should essentially equalize volume so that what is going out is the same as what's going in primarily in an effort to ensure that whatever you're doing in a plugin actually sounds better, because the natural inclination is that louder is better 🥹
All that said, I tend to clip gain my media items (they don't have to be wav) to make sure that they are not clipping the channel before a plugin is ever inserted.
I feel a good methodology is to achieve a decent rough mix with nothing but pan and volume adjustments with the faders, then start adding plugins. It really helps to ensure that your source material is good on its own and gives you a good starting point to start fixing things and adding enhancements
Were you in the army? I noticed the combat shirt you are wearing.
I may or may not have been involved with a paramilitary group for some time in the past, but nothing in any "official" capacity.
And no, I'm not secretly John Wick 😎
@@LetsTalkAboutReaper thats awesome man! I was in active duty for 6 years
@colebeveridge778 I wanted to be an aircraft mechanic in the Army. As a kid I always wanted to work on Apaches, but I had asthma growing up and was never eligible for active duty.
@@LetsTalkAboutReaper awe that sucks im sorry. I was a 91D (Generator Mechanic).
Were are you looking to see the peak and the over all volume ???
Just watching the track meter and the master meter. The master will show RMS and peak. If you have the track in exclusive solo, the master and track meter should be sufficient, though some may opt to use a third party metering plugin.
@@LetsTalkAboutReaper awesome video. I have learned so much from your vids. What theme are you using?
@@jerryfick8547 on this video, looks like i was using My Taste.
I'm now using My Taste II
forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=260786
what is the name of this theme please??
MyTaste
czcams.com/video/pqc8F7e11Uw/video.html
Ideally people should record at the levels you changed everything to, thus avoiding all this, right?
I'm no expert, but I would say record at a reasonable level with headroom to spare. Hop Pole Studios explains this quite well with a lot more science behind his answers
czcams.com/video/TqOWSeE6Tdw/video.html
People should generally record with a "standard" target of -18, but in the real world doesn't go that way because the priority is getting the most out of whatever gear they are using. Some gear sounds better hot or has various demands that end up off target.
Why not just normalize them all? Or just normalize the tracks that are clipping?
EDIT: To clarify, I mean normalize them to like -18, -12, -10, etc...
Never, ever clip the Screams track 😆😆🤣
Yeah, those tracks were a bit hot
I couldn’t help but laugh at the screams 😂