I converted a long time ago. It was a Chassidic conversion. Our family lived in an "Ultra-Orthodox" community in New Jersey for 16 years. No one ever questioned me as a Jew. I was completely accepted, then we moved to Richmond, Virginia to a "modern Orthodox" community. I was harassed by the "Modern Orthodox" rabbi for 10 years. I was not one of "his" converts (one of whom is still a practicing Christian). When he accepted and supported a Pentecostal family for conversion (the husband was a Messianic "rabbi"), who were initially approved by the RCA for conversion, I realized it was time to leave. We sold our house and left. I left everything behind to join the Jewish people. I am stunned that decades later, "modern Orthodox" Judaism is nothing more than Christianity without its founder. There needs to be better training of Rabbis and the GPS of the RCA needs to be more than a piece of paper.
i grew up modern orthodox in chicago, with lots of ties to very frum communities, and i am sorry for your experience, but i have no idea what you're talking about with christianity ...
Well said Rabbi- I agree that it’s the entire Orthodox community that needs to stand up. Thanks for a wonderful call to action and lending your voice to such an important spiritual cause for the entirety of the Jewish people. B”H ✌️
The problem is that the halakha, found in both the Mishnah Torah and the Shulchan Arukh makes no mention of pushing away converts to test their sincerity. Both sources say the opposite, that they should brought closer so they will NOT choose the path of not being Jewish.
The real problem is that even The Mishna Torah and THE Shulkhan Arukh are not everything and even though Halakha is the authority there are things that are learned from other sources. Poor Gerim that had to hide in Jewish communities from their past lives and poor Jews that accepted these refugees without knowing that will bring the whole of 70 nations into the fold, immediately, now. Sorry, we have a bit of a hard time dealing with each other after millennia of Galut and now nations demand more of us. under the disguise of righteous convert. If you are not satisfied with just the Jews and want to bring in your old friends why did you ran away in the first place? that's weird...
G-d give you strength, and bless you for speaking out and standing up for pure unbias authentic halakha. Says a lot about you and your sincerity. yevorekhkha 'H wa-yishmerekha.
If those that conduct themselves as such were not the decendants of converts over the ages, they wouldn't be here to turn their nose up at other potential converts. How quickly they forget the path others have traveled in order for them to get where they are. These are self-righteous individuals and are also anti - Torah. All are decended from Noah.
I went many years and was not allowed to convert orthodox. I then converted non orthodox. If I were a rich man or a famous man it would have been easy. Then add the fact I am black doesn't work in my favor. I can't even buy a suit or get my tefillin adjust proper. I understand the idea of being sure. Listen to the video on CZcams and see that Orthodox see convert as Defective. I have my documents of conversion. I was not welcome to visit in Atlanta. It's sad. Rabbi Akiva was the son of converts.
From what I know, a GUR must be presented with the sacrifices of conversion and the challenges of being a JEW. That said those RAVS must do this in a dignified and LOVING WAY….. the dignity of the convert must ALWAYS be respected…… the term MODERN ORTHODOX has been very frivolously thrown about and not given the respect it deserves.
thank you so much for this video. it brings joy to my heart to know that you really, understand the significance of the "secret" covered by the word convert...Shalom..
The reason for the abruptness is not new. It is to make sure, that the potential convert REALLY wants to convert. If the person is sincere that will not stop them from keeping at it. After a couple of times, the rabbi will converts them. That happen to somebody in my own family. I was not easy to convert but this person did, and is very happy now, plus her kids are Jewish of course.
If you are truly sincere in converting to Judaism and joining the Jewish people than you’ll manage to somehow find an Orthodox Rav that can help and guide you.
Also need to include those who do not live in the city. More than once I have been told by potential converts that they were turned away because they live in a rural area where there are no Jews and it is "impossible" to be Jewish that way. Guess I'm lucky to be born Jewish then, because I live in rural Minnesota and have no intention of ever moving back to the city. My wife and I observe Shabbos and yomtovs together, I daven at home, learn online during the week, etc. So yes, it *is* possible to be a rural Jew. And frankly, I think the urban communities could benefit from meeting people who live closer to HaShem's creation. The lack of knowledge about animals, nature, and the environment in the frum community is appalling.
It is not a trick to hold by Jewish Law. Jewish Law does not require that a convert be made to jump through hoops or be turned away. There is no reason for a potential convert to be turned away when the process law lays out is followed.
I've never experienced what you refer to. Moreover, you fail to mention that historically if they were intimate they weren't allowed to convert and yet this is widely treated post facto more leniently today regarding still being able to convert.
Judaism is clearly an ethnoreligion. Religion and blood kinship are identical. One is Jewish by birth from one's Jewish mother. The basis for the state of Israel is that it is the homeland of a people, not a doctrinal group. And so it is full of secular atheist Jews who are still Jews. The way the French are French, be they Catholics or Communists. Like it or not, the most traditional Jews understand this reality and their attitudes of hostility to anything that might dilute that embedded lifelong since-childhood identity and shared genes is a sort of natural immune response. Especially if the motivation is because of a romance. PS I am not a Jew, but a student of religions.
Turning converts away three times as a conversion process to see if they're serious about conversion and keeping Mitzvot, is not the way and just doesn't work because you're oppressing a stranger and violates Torah, whether we are Reform, Conservative, or Orthodox. Instead of that they should be instructed three times without giving them a hard time to see if a convert will accept Torah.
i have a even more complicated story about a friend who is a cohen, he is also already a father of 2 with a catholic woman who wants to convert, now this is a mess
Interested to hear what happened in the end as there is no way he could’ve married her even if she converted with an Orthodox beit din l’shem shamayim. 🤔
Reb yid, I appreciate the need to squeeze as many words as tightly as possible. I know Rashi was careful and economical with his words, but not because he had a Characters remaining counter. Mitzvoth between man & man and between man & God are quite different, as I am sure you know. perhaps we should continue this on an email basis? I could go a few rounds if you are into it.
It's a ruthless path to walk. It's made long for many reasons. I have been treated harshly in my home city, but in London, I find a lot more acceptance after I explain that I've been turned away over 4 times at home (despite the Talmudic Halacha of 3). I totally understand. What reason do they have to be open? History tells us that there isn't one reason. As potential conversion candidates, we must be hyper-sensitive to this. It's important not to trick us intoo thinking it's easy!
I greatly appreciate this video. I am interested in conversion; I have been for a long time. I also did a DNA test that showed that 10% of my DNA is "European Jew." What spurred this test was while taking care of my 80yr old grandpa in his last few weeks, I noticed he was circumcised... I thought nothing unusual since most are these days. However, I read that circumcision wasn't common until after WWII/1950s. My grandfather was born 1918. I went through genealogy, just for the sake of wanting to know family history and found out that my grandfather's mother was Jewish. It all started to make sense. If I were to convert, could I take my Grandfather's mother's maiden name, Layser, as my Jewish last name? My first name is already Hebrew. I will be moving to the Northern Virginia/D.C. area. Do you recommend any Rabbis to speak with for an Orthodox conversion?
wow. this is so cool. talk to chabad rabbis of northern VA.Dc area, theres a lot. i know in arlington, and in bethesda and in all the colleges as well.... theres a great amount of chassidus in the DMV area.
Yeah. The Rabbi at Bikur Cholim-Machzikay Hadath, where I go, is the head of the RCA, and he's supervising my conversion and I think it would be horrible for me to say anything because then he could cancel my conversion and completely invalidate it.
I agree with you generally, but on what basis do you say that someone who oppresses a potential convert is in anything of the same category as someone who oppressed a convert? They are just totally different places and oppressing an actual is so much worse--the person is trapped and can't go back. The potential can curse and slam the phone and go back to his prior life.
As you probably know their are many sources saying that a person who is Milallel Shabb-t gets Karet and when their is a court he can possible get the death sentence as well. Please show me 1, just one Torah source that argues on this point.
By saying well at least come to shul one is doing even worse to the person because you are taking away their conscious. If you explain to them instead that its completly assur to drive on Shabb-t and to either sleep over or more in to a Jewish community is what to do, and if not currently possible to just stay home on Shabb-t and go to shul on the weekdays. what's the problem?
+Jewish truth by Avrumeleh Melamid In VaYikra Jews are commanded to rebuke with love and not to shame others. In Mishlei it says a comely rebuke turns away wrath. The gemura says one who insults his fellow has no place in the world to come (even if he has torah and good deeds). In other words there is a way to reject someone without utterly insulting them. Conversion is not a simple process. It is designed to gently weed out such people. If you respond PLEASE justify your answer with torah, gemurah, or something other than JUST your opinion. Thank you
+ All the Davining and the learning etc. goes to the dark side because its a Mitzwah that comes from an avera, and not just an avera but an avera with the punishment of Karet.
Tough Love is a remnant from earlier generations. It no longer works! This is also true with regard to dealing with Jews dating non-Jews and to drive or not drive to shul if driving is the only way to attend. The "Tameh" is far less likely to become "Tahor". if there is no contact or exposure to a wholesome observant person or group. Loving others is the way to go not cold shoulders. We need not fear dropping our standards or our beliefs. Rather, fear what happens to us when we act callously.
there was an instance in the city of Tzfat, where a convert killed a Jew. The man was an ex-soldier, converted after the army through some dubious outlet. When confronted with a real Jewish personality, vivacious and alive, unassuming and magnanimous - couldn't take it. Killed him in a shul. Please don't listen to this rabbi. be yourselves. use Jewish wisdom to grow and help your immediate surrounding to become better. Besides, if you are in the West - you are already among the best, most altruistic people in the world. Cherish that. Be happy with what you already got.
Soo that allows for the tolerance and encouragement of the sins? You say a matter of understanding, please tell me in what other ways can and should one understand the prohibitions of Shabb-t? Also perhaps when it says "do not murder" one "understands" things different from you as well. Perhaps they would like to murder you, will you allow it since they understand differently? Also how would you relate to child molestors and rapists?would you state "G-d did not institute a zero tolerance policy"
Sorry to break it you, my friend, but being Jewish hasn’t got anything to do with DNA. Your mom has to be a Jew or you have to convert. It’s because of people like you that true blue converts have a hard time in the Jewish community. Blood has very little to do with it.
there is a clear Mishna that the one who wants to marry a Jewish woman is denied conversion. As for leniencies - no reason for leniencies since there are enough Bnei Noach communities, why not join them. Converting into a nation is not a joke, especially when converting into Jewish nation, converts are the first people to understand the differences even after the initial process, itself - bone-breaking. Don't do it.
I see we have a difference in how we perceive Hashem. You look at Hashem as a punishing King who cracks His belt threatening His children and instilling fear. I look at Him as a loving G-d who understands human frailty and the complexity of life. He who has created us surely knows better than we, the difficulties & challenges we face. I suggest you watch NDE accounts & hear of G-d's unimaginable love for us. It will melt your heart and change your nature. All Torah comes from Hillel NOT Shamai!
Your making an assumption of me but you don't know me. We need to have BOTH love and fear of G-D as well. We do not define G-D, but G-D defines us. Please tell me, do you honestly learn the Torah? Are their no punishments listed in the Torah? Did what I say about Karet be not true? What you say as being the Torah is not the Torah, but what you define as the Torah. You mention Hillel- do you think Hillel approves being Mihallel Shabb-t and encouraging it?
I had been living my life as a Jewish person I keep 100% Kosher, keep Shabbat and all the Jewish holidays I got married with an Orthodox Jewish by a civil court we have one child together before I met him I was already looking to convert to Judaism I dress completely modest according to halacha and I cover my head but I haven't been able to convert. I spoke to many Rabbi but it seeing to be so hard to be able to convert. one Rabbi told me why? did I want to convert when my life can be super easy living it as a non-jew? mY answer was I cannot see my self living my life as a non-jew I strongly desire to follow the ways, Hashem, and live my life the halacha way is part of me. I'm always striving to learn more and more Torah. anyways I truly hope to finally convert to Judaism.
Actually what is the purpose to driving to shul on Shabba-t? One driving to shul is commiting a sin of Karet- Eternal excommuniation and the cutting of the soul. While davening in a Shul is only DeRabbanan. It is not compassionate to lie to a person (lie included not tellnig the truth).
I'm wanting to convert and willing but I'm married iv been married nearly 10 years to the same husband and we have four children together and he is willing to support me and let my children be Jewish but unfortunately no orthodox rabbi will convert I will have to go to reform. But my concern is that as much as I love hashem and want a more spiritual life and everyone I know is willing to help me. To become orthodox I will have to leave my husband. I understand it is not halachacly correct to to be married to a non Jew but I was married before I became Jewish. God wants us to be together in Bereshit god says a woman shall leave her home and the husband too and they shall become one flesh. I love him and he loves me but I can force him god is all knowing and surely he loves us enough to understand this situation if anything turning someone away from god is against the mitzvot of god he said Israel shall be a light unto all nations it's your duty to be teachers of gods word. To bring people to him. I think I'm quoting Isaiah. I love the Torah and becoming Jewish is all I think about. Life is not set it stone in the past people sinned agaisnt god and they repented but it still happened it doesn't mean they were not jewish this was after hashem scattered them all over the earth and confused thee language. If you were in my situation what would you do. Thank you
I daven better at home than shul. It's spiritual and I feel closer to Hashem. However, many people who do not have a background in Yiddishkeit (these are to whom I refer, not someone already committed to Shmirat Shabbat) & feel they must be connected to a group to grow, learn and have an uplifting experience, although it is B'deved, I'd have them drive. If they do not go to shul they are going to go the mall! Perhaps after a while they will do teshuva and all their driving will be forgiven.
Also if you really love your fellow Jews and yourself happen to be Torah (and Shabb-t) observant, why don't you encourage them to keep Shabb-t, properly and not have themselves being Mihallel Shabb-t and being subjext to such punishments? If you love them?
No problem. You want you can message me here on youtube, or you want join the forum on - JTF (dot) org. My username there is the same as here. You choose where you want to debate.
NO NO NO! Judaism is an obligation that is reserved only for the ones whom God have chosen (By Birth), or for those who feel they were spiritually adopted for the task. A gentile was born a gentile for a reason. He must fullfill his task the way the creator assigned him. If a person truly want to be jewish, a few hurdles along the way shouldn't stop him. This "inclusiveness" is a grave danger, a person who is not up to the task MUSTN'T CONVERT! He takes an obligation that he wouldn't keep. Oaths unkept mustn't have been taken in the first place. If someone wants to convert, it must be an existential need for him, he must be determined to do what it takes, he must respect Rabbinic authority even when he is dismissed, and push forward with determination. We need to make conversion a very hard thing, as proper for such a great decision and BURDEN. It's lrealy very much like getting accepted to the Marines. If you think it isn't that hard Rabbi, than we have a problem. We need to make it challenging, not rewarding. We need to make it hard. We need to make something than when it occurs it's truly a dream come true. If you think conversion mustn't be such a big a deal, than I don't want you to conver anyone. That doesn't mean we need to rude to gentiles who want to convert- we need to politely discourage them, and insted do OUTREACH ACTIVITY TO GENTILES, but NOT to CONVERSION, but for them the abide by the Noahide code and have a relationship with the creator which is suitable for them. Besides, being Jew conforms privileges, that had costed us much. My family suffered anti-semitism, Shoa, loss of property. I had to serve in the ARMY for the protection of Israel. There is no reason what so ever to let anybody who feels like to enjoy the Right Of Return to Israel. Or to enjoy our Tzdaka. To conclude, Judaism is a duty, a burden, a calling, which is not ment for everyone, and only those who are serious and committed can volunteer to the task.
Thank you! And thank you for the time you took writing it! That is very surprising for me, and really calls for further study. It seems to me now that I was wrong, but also that the matter is more complicated, and I want to further study what is "viewing skepticaly" and such, and whether the current practice of making conversion difficult may defended well none the less, for in complicated matters there can be good grounds even for contradictory opinions. It seems to me that the obligation to call to mankind to believe in G-d does not necessarily entail calling them to convert, although I obviously see that this may be a logical conclusion. Anyway, thank you for the enlightenment and for your time, I really appreciate this. And you inrigued me into further studying a subject in Torah, may the reward for this study go to you. Tommorow is Shabbat, so if we won't speak till then, thank you and Shabbat Shalom from Haifa, Israel!
I see your point. I too don't believe the Zohar is authentic, and that it is a forgery of the 13th century. I also wish Judaism would return to Mimonidean rationalism, but frankly, I think modern Judaism is so immersed in Kabbalah that non-Kabbalist judaism has simply become extinct. Therefor I have come to reluctantly accept Kabbalah and the Zohar as central to Judaism. But at least the principle that halakha can't be based on Kabbalah is still enforced, and must be enforced. I think that if we'll lose even this, nothing will remain of historic Judaism and we'll end up with a completely modern religion with only pretentions to being ancient. I really didn't get "The Noahid laws only exist during the year of Jubilee." and such. I guess I will have to go through this subject. But, as an Israeli, I do have a real concern that people will use lenient conversion to immigrate to Israel. And separating Jewish ethnicity from religion is very very problematic, and I don't think it can or should be done. So I think matters are complicated about this subject, and I'll have to give it some deep thought and study it. Thank you again for the insightful and thought provoking discussion! :-)
+Alex Olinik You are mis-informed ,Rabbi Deleon never claimed to write the zohar hakodesh . He however is the one who helped spread the zohar to the masses,
what was the conversion process in which "Ruth", "Tzipora" and many others who joined the Israelites back then had to go through?! the hurdles you're talking about are man made laws for certain reasons and not a holy law also I'm not sure what makes you know for sure that you're ancestors aren't concerts and intermarried them selves? we are not a race and you know that logically by looking at the faces of our people in the streets of Israel. We are a people, some were born with this citizenship (jewishness) without earning it nor following its rules and some got adopted and joined us like the converts who are sincerely Jewish and many btw don't wanna make aliya, are happy where they are and not looking for tzedaka or use the community resources. they are Jewish in soul and many people are Jewish in body only. so let's not take HaShem role and become the ones who judge. did you know that rabbi Akiva is a convert? learn more about our history, ethnicity and converts plz.
I didagree. I saw converts treated very well by OTHODOX and Hassidut. And they converted. The terrible sin you are citing is true! Once you are converted yiu have to be considered 100 per cent Jew.
I inferred from your words which lead to my assumption. I respect but disagree with your approach. I am a Baal Keriah so I know well what is written. It is a matter of understanding what is written & why it was written. Hillel surely understood the proselyte would not keep shab at first, but he'd encourage him. Everyone says the same Al Chet, the biggest Rav to the smallest child. Man sins. G-d created us that way, to learn and improve. G-d did not institute a zero tolerance policy. Kel Rachum!
I have been shot down multiple times and it really hurts. It takes courage and determination to leave behind all you have known upto that point of life to embrace a faith and people you weren't born into. Do the rabbis care if i drive off a cliff? Is that a mitzvah?! We know being a jew isn't easy. We know we will get spit at, beaten, stabbed, lynched and shot for no fault of ours. Do we have to be mocked?! In the end, is it worth it?
A voice of reason and compassion. So many Orthodox rabbi work to keep converts out. May HaShem bless you rabbi!
I converted a long time ago. It was a Chassidic conversion. Our family lived in an "Ultra-Orthodox" community in New Jersey for 16 years. No one ever questioned me as a Jew. I was completely accepted, then we moved to Richmond, Virginia to a "modern Orthodox" community. I was harassed by the "Modern Orthodox" rabbi for 10 years. I was not one of "his" converts (one of whom is still a practicing Christian). When he accepted and supported a Pentecostal family for conversion (the husband was a Messianic "rabbi"), who were initially approved by the RCA for conversion, I realized it was time to leave. We sold our house and left. I left everything behind to join the Jewish people. I am stunned that decades later, "modern Orthodox" Judaism is nothing more than Christianity without its founder. There needs to be better training of Rabbis and the GPS of the RCA needs to be more than a piece of paper.
i grew up modern orthodox in chicago, with lots of ties to very frum communities, and i am sorry for your experience, but i have no idea what you're talking about with christianity ...
Well said Rabbi- I agree that it’s the entire Orthodox community that needs to stand up. Thanks for a wonderful call to action and lending your voice to such an important spiritual cause for the entirety of the Jewish people. B”H ✌️
Sorry. I am not standing up. From where I am sitting - I wish people would learn to be more spiritual than "Jewish".
The problem is that the halakha, found in both the Mishnah Torah and the Shulchan Arukh makes no mention of pushing away converts to test their sincerity. Both sources say the opposite, that they should brought closer so they will NOT choose the path of not being Jewish.
The real problem is that even The Mishna Torah and THE Shulkhan Arukh are not everything and even though Halakha is the authority there are things that are learned from other sources. Poor Gerim that had to hide in Jewish communities from their past lives and poor Jews that accepted these refugees without knowing that will bring the whole of 70 nations into the fold, immediately, now. Sorry, we have a bit of a hard time dealing with each other after millennia of Galut and now nations demand more of us. under the disguise of righteous convert. If you are not satisfied with just the Jews and want to bring in your old friends why did you ran away in the first place? that's weird...
G-d give you strength, and bless you for speaking out and standing up for pure unbias authentic halakha. Says a lot about you and your sincerity.
yevorekhkha 'H wa-yishmerekha.
This happens more than you probably understand, I am in the US and can give you countless stories, counting my own.
Wow, thank you, Rabbi, for speaking such kind words concerning not only the convert, but also the convert want-to-be.
Still a relevant video how many years later.
May Hashem continue to bless you, Rabbi.
If those that conduct themselves as such were not the decendants of converts over the ages, they wouldn't be here to turn their nose up at other potential converts. How quickly they forget the path others have traveled in order for them to get where they are. These are self-righteous individuals and are also anti - Torah. All are decended from Noah.
I went many years and was not allowed to convert orthodox. I then converted non orthodox. If I were a rich man or a famous man it would have been easy. Then add the fact I am black doesn't work in my favor. I can't even buy a suit or get my tefillin adjust proper. I understand the idea of being sure. Listen to the video on CZcams and see that Orthodox see convert as Defective. I have my documents of conversion. I was not welcome to visit in Atlanta. It's sad. Rabbi Akiva was the son of converts.
As a woman, I agree. It’s much harder for minorities and women to convert.
rabbi angel, thanku for your encouragement & compassionate attitude. i needed to hear this!
From what I know, a GUR must be presented with the sacrifices of conversion and the challenges of being a JEW.
That said those RAVS must do this in a dignified and LOVING WAY….. the dignity of the convert must ALWAYS be respected…… the term MODERN ORTHODOX has been very frivolously thrown about and not given the respect it deserves.
Very true. I tried with two different Synagogues.
I only wish the community where I live would recognize this.
Thank you for all you do!
thank you so much for this video. it brings joy to my heart to know that you really, understand the significance of the "secret" covered by the word convert...Shalom..
The reason for the abruptness is not new. It is to make sure, that the potential convert REALLY wants to convert. If the person is sincere that will not stop them from keeping at it. After a couple of times, the rabbi will converts them. That happen to somebody in my own family. I was not easy to convert but this person did, and is very happy now, plus her kids are Jewish of course.
THANK YOU RABBI! You are the Moshé ben Maimón of our times.
Rejection is what halts my steps to conversion...
Hi. I noticed you may be on the path to making a Jewish conversion? We are converts and we can help you www.guidemetojudaism.com/
If you are truly sincere in converting to Judaism and joining the Jewish people than you’ll manage to somehow find an Orthodox Rav that can help and guide you.
Also need to include those who do not live in the city. More than once I have been told by potential converts that they were turned away because they live in a rural area where there are no Jews and it is "impossible" to be Jewish that way. Guess I'm lucky to be born Jewish then, because I live in rural Minnesota and have no intention of ever moving back to the city. My wife and I observe Shabbos and yomtovs together, I daven at home, learn online during the week, etc. So yes, it *is* possible to be a rural Jew. And frankly, I think the urban communities could benefit from meeting people who live closer to HaShem's creation. The lack of knowledge about animals, nature, and the environment in the frum community is appalling.
The Rabbi is right....some Rabbis are very unwelcoming to people that want to convert, I have never understood this...
cross-currents.com/2007/11/28/halacha-is-not-a-chinese-menu/
cross-currents.com/2007/07/22/conversion-to-judaism-the-need-for-a-uniform-standard/
www.jpost.com/Opinion/Making-the-case-for-the-Chief-Rabbinate-501088
I done conversion to judasim in Israel but i dont think the orthodox jews will accept my conversion to judasim being a jew is very hard
It is not a trick to hold by Jewish Law. Jewish Law does not require that a convert be made to jump through hoops or be turned away. There is no reason for a potential convert to be turned away when the process law lays out is followed.
I've never experienced what you refer to. Moreover, you fail to mention that historically if they were intimate they weren't allowed to convert and yet this is widely treated post facto more leniently today regarding still being able to convert.
Judaism is clearly an ethnoreligion. Religion and blood kinship are identical. One is Jewish by birth from one's Jewish mother. The basis for the state of Israel is that it is the homeland of a people, not a doctrinal group. And so it is full of secular atheist Jews who are still Jews. The way the French are French, be they Catholics or Communists. Like it or not, the most traditional Jews understand this reality and their attitudes of hostility to anything that might dilute that embedded lifelong since-childhood identity and shared genes is a sort of natural immune response. Especially if the motivation is because of a romance. PS I am not a Jew, but a student of religions.
Turning converts away three times as a conversion process to see if they're serious about conversion and keeping Mitzvot, is not the way and just doesn't work because you're oppressing a stranger and violates Torah, whether we are Reform, Conservative, or Orthodox. Instead of that they should be instructed three times without giving them a hard time to see if a convert will accept Torah.
i have a even more complicated story about a friend who is a cohen, he is also already a father of 2 with a catholic woman who wants to convert, now this is a mess
Interested to hear what happened in the end as there is no way he could’ve married her even if she converted with an Orthodox beit din l’shem shamayim. 🤔
I need to speak with a Rabbi in the Maryland. Please. I am trying to even get them to call me back.
Rabbi Angel's email is: mdangel@jewishideas.org
Reb yid, I appreciate the need to squeeze as many words as tightly as possible. I know Rashi was careful and economical with his words, but not because he had a Characters remaining counter. Mitzvoth between man & man and between man & God are quite different, as I am sure you know. perhaps we should continue this on an email basis? I could go a few rounds if you are into it.
As far as I know Chabad has a policy of not participating in conversions. You should try your local orthodox synagogue.
It's a ruthless path to walk. It's made long for many reasons. I have been treated harshly in my home city, but in London, I find a lot more acceptance after I explain that I've been turned away over 4 times at home (despite the Talmudic Halacha of 3). I totally understand. What reason do they have to be open? History tells us that there isn't one reason. As potential conversion candidates, we must be hyper-sensitive to this. It's important not to trick us intoo thinking it's easy!
foxoutsidethebox Hey, I'm from London too.
Did you convert in the end?
Be Jewish don’t ever let anyone deny you of being in a covenant relationship with the creator of the universe.
He is lovely
I greatly appreciate this video.
I am interested in conversion; I have been for a long time. I also did a DNA test that showed that 10% of my DNA is "European Jew." What spurred this test was while taking care of my 80yr old grandpa in his last few weeks, I noticed he was circumcised... I thought nothing unusual since most are these days. However, I read that circumcision wasn't common until after WWII/1950s. My grandfather was born 1918. I went through genealogy, just for the sake of wanting to know family history and found out that my grandfather's mother was Jewish. It all started to make sense. If I were to convert, could I take my Grandfather's mother's maiden name, Layser, as my Jewish last name? My first name is already Hebrew.
I will be moving to the Northern Virginia/D.C. area. Do you recommend any Rabbis to speak with for an Orthodox conversion?
I hope you can find help for your conversion. Which DNA test did you take?
Hi. I noticed you may be on the path to making a Jewish conversion? We are converts and we can help you www.guidemetojudaism.com/
wow. this is so cool. talk to chabad rabbis of northern VA.Dc area, theres a lot. i know in arlington, and in bethesda and in all the colleges as well.... theres a great amount of chassidus in the DMV area.
Visit our community and see the mums and their children who converted, and they are now either unobservant and in some cases living with Gentiles!
Yeah. The Rabbi at Bikur Cholim-Machzikay Hadath, where I go, is the head of the RCA, and he's supervising my conversion and I think it would be horrible for me to say anything because then he could cancel my conversion and completely invalidate it.
I agree with you generally, but on what basis do you say that someone who oppresses a potential convert is in anything of the same category as someone who oppressed a convert? They are just totally different places and oppressing an actual is so much worse--the person is trapped and can't go back. The potential can curse and slam the phone and go back to his prior life.
How do you think it is now? I'm trying to convert to Orthodox Judaism currently in Jersey and NYC area
As you probably know their are many sources saying that a person who is Milallel Shabb-t gets Karet and when their is a court he can possible get the death sentence as well. Please show me 1, just one Torah source that argues on this point.
You can convert liberal and be consider Jewish by the state, but not the rabbiante.
By saying well at least come to shul one is doing even worse to the person because you are taking away their conscious. If you explain to them instead that its completly assur to drive on Shabb-t and to either sleep over or more in to a Jewish community is what to do, and if not currently possible to just stay home on Shabb-t and go to shul on the weekdays. what's the problem?
chabad does take conversions I have seen it as I am part of chabad myself
The potential convert slammed down the phone and used fowl language? Why do we need such a person?
+Jewish truth by Avrumeleh Melamid In VaYikra Jews are commanded to rebuke with love and not to shame others. In Mishlei it says a comely rebuke turns away wrath. The gemura says one who insults his fellow has no place in the world to come (even if he has torah and good deeds). In other words there is a way to reject someone without utterly insulting them. Conversion is not a simple process. It is designed to gently weed out such people. If you respond PLEASE justify your answer with torah, gemurah, or something other than JUST your opinion. Thank you
+ All the Davining and the learning etc. goes to the dark side because its a Mitzwah that comes from an avera, and not just an avera but an avera with the punishment of Karet.
Tough Love is a remnant from earlier generations. It no longer works! This is also true with regard to dealing with Jews dating non-Jews and to drive or not drive to shul if driving is the only way to attend. The "Tameh" is far less likely to become "Tahor". if there is no contact or exposure to a wholesome observant person or group. Loving others is the way to go not cold shoulders. We need not fear dropping our standards or our beliefs. Rather, fear what happens to us when we act callously.
/watch?v=wQKrwfJ_4FA (Short video). Longer one's available as well.
there was an instance in the city of Tzfat, where a convert killed a Jew. The man was an ex-soldier, converted after the army through some dubious outlet. When confronted with a real Jewish personality, vivacious and alive, unassuming and magnanimous - couldn't take it. Killed him in a shul. Please don't listen to this rabbi. be yourselves. use Jewish wisdom to grow and help your immediate surrounding to become better. Besides, if you are in the West - you are already among the best, most altruistic people in the world. Cherish that. Be happy with what you already got.
Soo that allows for the tolerance and encouragement of the sins? You say a matter of understanding, please tell me in what other ways can and should one understand the prohibitions of Shabb-t? Also perhaps when it says "do not murder" one "understands" things different from you as well. Perhaps they would like to murder you, will you allow it since they understand differently?
Also how would you relate to child molestors and rapists?would you state "G-d did not institute a zero tolerance policy"
i am a jew by DNA and no one can change or that from me, it is ordained by god, i bare his mark, it's what runs through my vains.
Sorry to break it you, my friend, but being Jewish hasn’t got anything to do with DNA. Your mom has to be a Jew or you have to convert. It’s because of people like you that true blue converts have a hard time in the Jewish community. Blood has very little to do with it.
there is a clear Mishna that the one who wants to marry a Jewish woman is denied conversion. As for leniencies - no reason for leniencies since there are enough Bnei Noach communities, why not join them. Converting into a nation is not a joke, especially when converting into Jewish nation, converts are the first people to understand the differences even after the initial process, itself - bone-breaking. Don't do it.
I see we have a difference in how we perceive Hashem. You look at Hashem as a punishing King who cracks His belt threatening His children and instilling fear. I look at Him as a loving G-d who understands human frailty and the complexity of life. He who has created us surely knows better than we, the difficulties & challenges we face. I suggest you watch NDE accounts & hear of G-d's unimaginable love for us. It will melt your heart and change your nature. All Torah comes from Hillel NOT Shamai!
Your making an assumption of me but you don't know me. We need to have BOTH love and fear of G-D as well. We do not define G-D, but G-D defines us. Please tell me, do you honestly learn the Torah? Are their no punishments listed in the Torah? Did what I say about Karet be not true? What you say as being the Torah is not the Torah, but what you define as the Torah. You mention Hillel- do you think Hillel approves being Mihallel Shabb-t and encouraging it?
Perhaps in some utopia or a parallel universe....not on this earth.
I had been living my life as a Jewish person I keep 100% Kosher, keep Shabbat and all the Jewish holidays I got married with an Orthodox Jewish by a civil court we have one child together before I met him I was already looking to convert to Judaism I dress completely modest according to halacha and I cover my head but I haven't been able to convert. I spoke to many Rabbi but it seeing to be so hard to be able to convert. one Rabbi told me why? did I want to convert when my life can be super easy living it as a non-jew? mY answer was I cannot see my self living my life as a non-jew I strongly desire to follow the ways, Hashem, and live my life the halacha way is part of me. I'm always striving to learn more and more Torah. anyways I truly hope to finally convert to Judaism.
did you convert?
So have you found a Rav that will work with you to do an Orthodox conversion yet?
Actually what is the purpose to driving to shul on Shabba-t? One driving to shul is commiting a sin of Karet- Eternal excommuniation and the cutting of the soul. While davening in a Shul is only DeRabbanan.
It is not compassionate to lie to a person (lie included not tellnig the truth).
I'm wanting to convert and willing but I'm married iv been married nearly 10 years to the same husband and we have four children together and he is willing to support me and let my children be Jewish but unfortunately no orthodox rabbi will convert I will have to go to reform. But my concern is that as much as I love hashem and want a more spiritual life and everyone I know is willing to help me. To become orthodox I will have to leave my husband. I understand it is not halachacly correct to to be married to a non Jew but I was married before I became Jewish. God wants us to be together in Bereshit god says a woman shall leave her home and the husband too and they shall become one flesh. I love him and he loves me but I can force him god is all knowing and surely he loves us enough to understand this situation if anything turning someone away from god is against the mitzvot of god he said Israel shall be a light unto all nations it's your duty to be teachers of gods word. To bring people to him. I think I'm quoting Isaiah. I love the Torah and becoming Jewish is all I think about. Life is not set it stone in the past people sinned agaisnt god and they repented but it still happened it doesn't mean they were not jewish this was after hashem scattered them all over the earth and confused thee language. If you were in my situation what would you do. Thank you
Dont even consider it.
👍
I daven better at home than shul. It's spiritual and I feel closer to Hashem. However, many people who do not have a background in Yiddishkeit (these are to whom I refer, not someone already committed to Shmirat Shabbat) & feel they must be connected to a group to grow, learn and have an uplifting experience, although it is B'deved, I'd have them drive. If they do not go to shul they are going to go the mall! Perhaps after a while they will do teshuva and all their driving will be forgiven.
Also if you really love your fellow Jews and yourself happen to be Torah (and Shabb-t) observant, why don't you encourage them to keep Shabb-t, properly and not have themselves being Mihallel Shabb-t and being subjext to such punishments? If you love them?
No problem. You want you can message me here on youtube, or you want join the forum on - JTF (dot) org. My username there is the same as here. You choose where you want to debate.
No. It was always through the mother. Tribal affiliation was through the father.
NO NO NO! Judaism is an obligation that is reserved only for the ones whom God have chosen (By Birth), or for those who feel they were spiritually adopted for the task.
A gentile was born a gentile for a reason. He must fullfill his task the way the creator assigned him.
If a person truly want to be jewish, a few hurdles along the way shouldn't stop him.
This "inclusiveness" is a grave danger, a person who is not up to the task MUSTN'T CONVERT! He takes an obligation that he wouldn't keep. Oaths unkept mustn't have been taken in the first place.
If someone wants to convert, it must be an existential need for him, he must be determined to do what it takes, he must respect Rabbinic authority even when he is dismissed, and push forward with determination.
We need to make conversion a very hard thing, as proper for such a great decision and BURDEN. It's lrealy very much like getting accepted to the Marines. If you think it isn't that hard Rabbi, than we have a problem. We need to make it challenging, not rewarding. We need to make it hard. We need to make something than when it occurs it's truly a dream come true.
If you think conversion mustn't be such a big a deal, than I don't want you to conver anyone.
That doesn't mean we need to rude to gentiles who want to convert- we need to politely discourage them, and insted do OUTREACH ACTIVITY TO GENTILES, but NOT to CONVERSION, but for them the abide by the Noahide code and have a relationship with the creator which is suitable for them.
Besides, being Jew conforms privileges, that had costed us much. My family suffered anti-semitism, Shoa, loss of property. I had to serve in the ARMY for the protection of Israel. There is no reason what so ever to let anybody who feels like to enjoy the Right Of Return to Israel. Or to enjoy our Tzdaka.
To conclude, Judaism is a duty, a burden, a calling, which is not ment for everyone, and only those who are serious and committed can volunteer to the task.
In what way? Could you please specify, give a quote?
Not for the sake of argument, I am intrigued and really want to know. Thanks!
Thank you! And thank you for the time you took writing it!
That is very surprising for me, and really calls for further study.
It seems to me now that I was wrong, but also that the matter is more complicated, and I want to further study what is "viewing skepticaly" and such, and whether the current practice of making conversion difficult may defended well none the less, for in complicated matters there can be good grounds even for contradictory opinions.
It seems to me that the obligation to call to mankind to believe in G-d does not necessarily entail calling them to convert, although I obviously see that this may be a logical conclusion.
Anyway, thank you for the enlightenment and for your time, I really appreciate this. And you inrigued me into further studying a subject in Torah, may the reward for this study go to you.
Tommorow is Shabbat, so if we won't speak till then, thank you and Shabbat Shalom from Haifa, Israel!
I see your point. I too don't believe the Zohar is authentic, and that it is a forgery of the 13th century. I also wish Judaism would return to Mimonidean rationalism, but frankly, I think modern Judaism is so immersed in Kabbalah that non-Kabbalist judaism has simply become extinct.
Therefor I have come to reluctantly accept Kabbalah and the Zohar as central to Judaism. But at least the principle that halakha can't be based on Kabbalah is still enforced, and must be enforced.
I think that if we'll lose even this, nothing will remain of historic Judaism and we'll end up with a completely modern religion with only pretentions to being ancient.
I really didn't get "The Noahid laws only exist during the year of Jubilee." and such. I guess I will have to go through this subject.
But, as an Israeli, I do have a real concern that people will use lenient conversion to immigrate to Israel. And separating Jewish ethnicity from religion is very very problematic, and I don't think it can or should be done. So I think matters are complicated about this subject, and I'll have to give it some deep thought and study it.
Thank you again for the insightful and thought provoking discussion! :-)
+Alex Olinik You are mis-informed ,Rabbi Deleon never claimed to write the zohar hakodesh . He however is the one who helped spread the zohar to the masses,
what was the conversion process in which "Ruth", "Tzipora" and many others who joined the Israelites back then had to go through?!
the hurdles you're talking about are man made laws for certain reasons and not a holy law also I'm not sure what makes you know for sure that you're ancestors aren't concerts and intermarried them selves?
we are not a race and you know that logically by looking at the faces of our people in the streets of Israel. We are a people, some were born with this citizenship (jewishness) without earning it nor following its rules and some got adopted and joined us like the converts who are sincerely Jewish and many btw don't wanna make aliya, are happy where they are and not looking for tzedaka or use the community resources.
they are Jewish in soul and many people are Jewish in body only. so let's not take HaShem role and become the ones who judge.
did you know that rabbi Akiva is a convert? learn more about our history, ethnicity and converts plz.
I didagree. I saw converts treated very well by OTHODOX and Hassidut. And they converted. The terrible sin you are citing is true! Once you are converted yiu have to be considered 100 per cent Jew.
I inferred from your words which lead to my assumption. I respect but disagree with your approach. I am a Baal Keriah so I know well what is written. It is a matter of understanding what is written & why it was written. Hillel surely understood the proselyte would not keep shab at first, but he'd encourage him. Everyone says the same Al Chet, the biggest Rav to the smallest child. Man sins. G-d created us that way, to learn and improve. G-d did not institute a zero tolerance policy. Kel Rachum!
"Charadi extreme view."
Looks like Korach is trying to start up another rebellion.
Into the trash it goes.
it has always been through the mother
If you convert to Judaism , do you automaticly became a Citizen of Israel
Only in orthodox conversions.
It is not write for rabbonim to behave like this
I have been shot down multiple times and it really hurts. It takes courage and determination to leave behind all you have known upto that point of life to embrace a faith and people you weren't born into. Do the rabbis care if i drive off a cliff? Is that a mitzvah?! We know being a jew isn't easy. We know we will get spit at, beaten, stabbed, lynched and shot for no fault of ours. Do we have to be mocked?! In the end, is it worth it?
Nithin Thomas Let's convert to Karaite Judaism...
'' CHOSEN People ! '' ...chosen for HELL !