Cost of Living USA vs Norway… is it affordable?! | 2023 | Vlog #30
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- čas přidán 28. 05. 2023
- In this video we will describe some of your standard cost of living expenses for Norway, and compare these to the USA using Alaska and Texas as a reference. Let me know your thoughts or cost for comparison in the comments.
a little tip. We have apps on our phone that show how much electricity we use at any given time, what the electricity costs np and the next 24 hours etc. (We also get 90% support when the price is over 70 kilowatts) It is only in the last 1 1/2 years that we have had the prices for electricity as they are now, usually we have cheap electricity (but we use a lot of electricity as it is not so common to use gas) The little thing on the wall you mentioned, it is probably a heat pump - they give a lot of power for a lot less money)
I need to look this up! Maybe it is a “pump” vs a heating unit. Not sure of the difference, if there is one?!
If in fact you have a heat pump you will love it. It provides a nice even temperatur and reduces your electicity bill.
And you can chose different modes, it's very nice on a really hot summerday to put the mode to cool and you will have a nice cool indoor temperatur even if it's very hot outside.
And if you have a lot of windows it will be very hot inside without the pump.
And if you have a pump, there should be a remote control somewhere. Talk to the landlord if you don't find it.
With that you can easaly change between the different modes, set the temperatur you want and the speed of the fan.
@@BengtIvarOlsen yes I have the remote and did use it some for heat this winter but I haven’t tried it for cool air yet. Maybe this summer 🤞🏼 hope it gets warm enough. 😄
@@heatherabroad We never turn our heat pump off, and we never use the auto mode.
We set the mode to cool in the spring when it gets warmer outside and back to heat in the fall when the temperatur gets colder 👍🏻
Interesting comparison, but healtcare is such a big thing that leaving it out changes everything. In the US, you'd probably pay around $600/month for health insurance? I once did a comparison for Norway and New York. My result showed that if you compare median income and you combine tax and healthcare, then you get pretty much exactly the same percentage of disposable income. I thought that was interesting, because I've always heard how we have so high taxes. But I think maybe that what some people do is to look at tax income per capita. That doesn't work, because we have nationalized oil and gas and charge a special tax on those profits of 78%, compared to 22% for other businesses. But once you start looking at details, you quickly realize how insanely complex the economy really is. Quite fun! :)
Yes! It is very complex and hard to truly compare. I do find it all fascinating though.
Education is also free in Norway, would be a big expense if you have kids
Yeah it is a huge expense having kids that you don’t want to get behind when moving back to the US. 😳💰
@VikiN Norway - No, you are wrong. Education is NOT free. Everyone pays for it. Stop saying that education and medical care is FREE. It's like it just magically appears with all the teachers and healthcare workers get their wages from a magical bag of gold.
So to reiterate…
There is no free lunch. In the US, primary schools are “free” also. (Kindergarten through 12th grade), but this is all funded with taxation. There is no “free lunch”.
Junior colleges follow - they are also funded mostly with taxation- with an average of two more years of higher education that can be made much less expensive to the student by selecting a junior college close to home so they can live at home while studying. For those two years, the student can get all the general academic classes completed that are very expensive at the University level.
Like it or not, a student can often, not always, get tuition and some fees waived based on race. I assume gender will soon be a criteria. Children of disabled veterans in California can get ALL of their tuition paid for through the California Veteran’s Association- even at the University level.
Moving on to the university level, the same racial acknowledgment has provided many ‘free’ educations through grants, scholarships and income and race-based fee waivers, along with children of veterans and more that I have not acknowledged.
By choosing junior college first for two years, the student then enrolls in University for two years instead and the cost of four University years has been halved.
And most universities here mandate the student live ‘on campus’ for the first year, which incurs a huge cost; something around $36,000 a year.
But as I understand it, a Norwegian university student has to pay for their apartment, food and electricity also, so again… there is no such thing as free education. It’s always funded somehow.
@@stevenjohnson7086 if you need to move to an apartment when studying you get 600$ or so monthly, and some more in the start of the year. Paid by the state.
@@vikinnorway6725 I did not know that; thank you for that information! I once knew I Norwegian who was studying near Göteborg and she bought an apartment, but she did not mention the subsidy. Certainly, that makes a huge difference... yet it still doesn't make education "free"
Electricity prices have gone off the rails over the past year or so. Having to pay over 1 NOK/kWh used to be rare. You might see 0.5--0.8 in winter if it was really cold, but then summer prices were usually less than 0.3 NOK/kWh.
The government is also covering 90% of the price above 0.7NOK/kWh based on a monthly average(due to change to hourly later in 2023). So in general price even at the peaks have been around 0.9-1.1NOK/kWh this past winter after deducting this support.
Above prices are excluding grid fees which differ depending on who is running the local grid.
In Stavanger area that is Lnett and they charge a fixed 250 NOK/month for the peak power up to 5kW, or 350NOk for the 5-10kW bracket, + a consumption fee of 0.49NOK/kWh during the day and 0.41NOK/kWh at night and during weekends. That kWh rate was a bit reduced (~0.08NOK/kWh) due to reduced tax rate in, I think, November-March.
As you pointed out the price is set hourly and the day ahead prices are determined around 1- 2pm for the next day. Basically a big auction by the producers on what they can deliver and at what rate.
Yes not loving the electricity bill here for sure. And I am not going to wake up at 2 am to put the clothes in the wash/dryer. 😖
@@heatherabroad This is actually a topic which we weegies would love to hear more about from a US perspective. I suppose it's not the same system across the entire US. Are there areas with hourly prices, what we call spot prices, in the US? How are your electricity bills broken down/itemized?
Note the very important thing that @Gazer75 wrote about the government support being based on monthly average. The implication of this is huge, but difficult to spot unless you have a very keen eye for mathematical relationships: It means that every kWh, in a given calendar month, is sponsored by the same amount of money, regardless of when in the month you use that kWh. Some kWh might be expensive, some might be cheap. But within the calendar month, they'll all be sponsored by the same amount. In the extreme case, that means if the montly average price is quite high, but you use some kWh's when the spot price is low, the sponsorship amount _for those specific kWh's_ can actually exceed the price. So you can actually end up paying less the more you use _within those cheap hours_
In the less extreme case, the effect of the sponsorship being based on average spot price is to excaggerate the difference between cheap hours and expensive hours. So if you have the ability to turn things on only when the price is low, then you can save probably thousands of NOK. That can be as simple as delaying laundry to a cheap afternoon, or more exotic tricks like switching off the power to the hot water tank until the price falls. It requires some nimble planning to make this work. YMMV.
In any case, it switches to a more sane system in November, if I recall correctly.
@@eckligt Yep, they are going to change this support to be based on the hourly price instead. Haven't found any info on when the change is coming.
@@eckligt it is interesting to me how they use this system to complicate electricity. 🤔However, the same principles are not applied to the healthcare system. You pay regardless of your overall health. You would think that you only pay for the services that you need based off of your health condition, if the same principles applied. If you don’t use the services, then you aren’t paying as much? Instead, everyone pays the same %. Even if I never use the services. Maybe I’m way off? 🤷🏻♀️🤔
There are some companies in the US that try to do average rates based off of predicted use of electricity overtime in certain areas. All this does is help people have a more predictable bill throughout the year without the big fluctuations. There is typically more than one company servicing an area allowing for more competitive pricing. Again that is dependent on the state you live in. In Texas, we had many choices. In Alaska, we had one.
@@heatherabroad The part about more than one company servicing an area sounds similar to here, although the physical infrastructure is owned by a monopoly. I assume there is a utility that operates like a monopoly for the "last mile" electrical wires in the US as well ...?
But you get a choice as to which company you buy electricity from.
It's really an accounting trick. It's based on a pool metaphor: If I have a bucket of water, and you have an empty bucket but want to buy a bucket worth of water, then instead of us meeting physically and exchanging water for money, we can also just stand by the swimming pool, and I'll pour my bucket in the pool at the same time you scoop up water with your bucket from the same pool. It's not the same actual water, but we manage to make the trade anyway. And of course, the entity that does the daily auction for electricity is called "Nordpool" to underline that they build on this metaphor.
That means you can buy electricity from whomever you want, but it's not generally the ones you physically get electricity from.
I think the main difference from other countries ... dunno about the US, but rest of Europe ... is that we have established an expectation that normal consumers will use the "spot price". That effectively means the whole nation is speculating on Nordpool, which is risky! If a fixed price had been the norm, there'd be a lot less fluctuation, and there'd also be less risk for the energy producers since they'd have more predictable income.
I'm very much not a fan of the current practice and system. Really wish I'd clued in earlier and gotten "fastpris" before the summer of 2021.
I understand your point about just giving the numbers and not discussing them that much.
Personally, I am not happy with the new way how they regulate electricity by cranking up the price when people need to use electricity (rush hour addition), as if people can make dinner when they want (a family can not do this). People have to use power when they are at home before they rush out to ferry their kids around from one activity to the next. The only thing they did by introducing the rush hour policy on electricity is to make it worse for families that already struggle.
As for tolls...yes, that is a whole thing too. I am not happy with it either. In most countries on the continent (Europe), they also only have tolls on the motorways they are funding, not on the quieter, slower side roads. In one of the cities in Norway, they introduced tolls and said it would go away in 20 years, but then as they saw the money roll in, they just prolonged it and pretended it was always going to be that way. I am sad to say that this won't disappear any time soon, and I am pretty sure that most toll fares will stay forever. This is a political thing, so some are fine with that, and some are not.
Food is not easy to compare either, sadly, because Norway has always been plagued with poor choices in groceries compared to other places in Europe, as well as high prices. This is most likely due to taxes, population (number of customers), and willed politics. If you live close to Sweden (eastern Norway), people don't care as much as those that have no option to shop in Sweden, and I remember the refrain being that they didn't care that food prices in Norway were high, because they could just shop in Sweden. This has recently changed a bit because of the value of NOK compared to SEK (Swedish kroner). As far as I know, you live in the Stavanger area (previous video), and in that case, you are coping with Norwegian prices.
Yes. It is expensive here but when counting the cost of child care, education, and insurance (and more) and comparing it to the cost in the US, it is not that bad I think. Also, it is mostly quite safe here, with little crime, so that is a bonus, don't you think?
If you and your family had come to Norway 5 years ago, I think your experience would have been more favorable, as we have recently been affected by the war in Ukraine (obviously not as bad as those that live in Ukraine), as well as an increase in electricity prices, as others also have mentioned.
Thank for watching and for the feedback. It still is a great opportunity and we are very much enjoying it. The safety is one thing I will miss. School is a tough one because if we put our kids in the Norwegian school they will be behind in education when returning to the US. With that said, we pay for them to go to an International school with more similar curriculum to the US. I also love the slower pace of life here and having access to nature all around. 🇳🇴 🥰
I don’t think you added the usual taxes and tips for the US eating out bill.
If you wanne save money, first thing is to change to EV. Everything in Norway is programmed for EV cars and public transport. You pay less or no toll, and electricity is still cheaper than gasoline.
Comparing costs is very difficult. You have to look at ALL expenses, including health insurance and education fees and so on.
Yes but at least this is a starting place. It also depends on the kind of lifestyle you want and what you think is necessary. So many variables! 😊
I don't know what it's like for Norwegians but as a tourist visiting Norway I can say everything is crazy expensive: food, hotels, transportation, attractions, clothes etc.
Yes it is expensive but they also don’t spend money the way people do on the US. There are less things to do, probably because cost of labor makes it expensive and therefore unsuccessful. Also, people do not eat out as much here.
I think you mentioned a heatpump? If you got one you should use that over any other electric heating. They are way more efficient.
So I’m not sure it is a heat pump 🤦🏻♀️. It is a unit mounted up in the corner. Not sure if there is a difference. I’ll look into it!
@@heatherabroad If it also has an outdoor unit (radiator with fan) then its a heatpump for sure. Getting more and more common as an easy upgrade for older homes.
A picture in the community tab of the unit will help.
@@Gazer75 I didn’t even know this tab existed! Thanks for pointing that out. Clearly, I am no CZcams star 😆. I posted a picture.
How is the cost of phone/internet/cable tv in Norway? In Belgium we're paying 100 euro a month, which is about half, maybe a third of what we were paying in Wyoming. And one clarification for Norwegians... I think in most places in the US, public school through secondary, or high school, is free. Or that is it comes with local taxes. Also, most states have some income tax, average is about 5-6%. Texas and Alaska both do not have this, nor did Wyoming. The 100 Euro is for two lines, decent but not fastest internet and all the regular BE stations plus a footy package.
My phone bill is 485 NOK. I only have one line with 8GB of data. I almost added this in but I figured most people have multiple lines now-a-days.
@@heatherabroad my phone bill is 499 nok and is unlimited whit up to 200mbit/s (telenor)
I wanted to note that because Public Schools in the US are funded through local tax this means the amount of resources in a school are directly related to the tax dollars in that community which automatically decreases the quality of education for poor communities.
The exchange rate between USD and NOK has also varied a lot in the last 16 years (i.e. since the Global Financial Crisis).
Most of my life, the received wisdom was that 1 USD was worth 7 NOK, and this was pretty stable for decades (going up to 8, or down to 6, but not much more).
Yet when the Global Financial Crisis struck, the USD fell to 4.92 NOK at the lowest (April 2008), and now with all the fallout from both covid, inflation and energy supply problems, the USD has risen to a high of 11.14 NOK (which is close to the current exchange rate).
So I think any comparison across currencies is a bit difficult at this point in history.
Yes but it is true for this year, roughly. So it is information for one to use maybe even based on the current rate at the time they watch the video. But that is one reason I put 2023 in the title. I know these things are always changing. Even just last year when we moved it was about 8.60 NOK. 👍🏼
@@heatherabroad Yep, not meant as any kind of criticism, just wanted to add context to show how much the rate has gone up and down.
@@eckligt ah yes I understand! 👍🏼😄
I don't know if you're interested in ideas for trip and new videos. If you are I would like to tell you about the American Festival Lista 2023 22 - 25 June. Lista is the name of the area (a peninsula) and it's centre is Vanse. That is around 6-7 km west of Farsund. That is no more than 170 km from Stavanger. Vanse is called the most American place in Norway. They have the US flags in the street and at least earlier they all drove Am-cars....for sure there will be a an Am-car show.... They used a lot of American words in their vocabulary. Everybody there has family ties to the US. Hundred years ago when people there said they were going to town....they didn't meant Farsund or Stavanger ....but New York. Brooklyn was at that time almost a Norwegian territory..... Their "American" life in Vanse has been noticed so much that even the US ambassador (to Norway) has visited them. There is a homepage with program.......good luck....
I have not heard of the place! Thanks for letting me know. I will look into it. 😊🇺🇸🇳🇴
Yes, cost of living is very high in Norway, there was a time I considered moving to US, my area of work was in high demand and income was 2-3 times higher in US than Norway. Stavanger is not a low cost area, this is a oil related city and the oil sector provided many high income jobs. I would expect higher prices there, because of the oil sector pressure. The power bills last year was off the charts, this ain't normal at all, been a huge mess up related to power grid and how Norway handle import/export of power, somehow politicians and researchers have slept in class.
Norway is net exporter of power, the mess up is that huge European demand resulted in domestic prices on level with other countries. The domestic power grid is divided into 5 economical zones, Stavanger is located in NO2, which is the power zone with highest pressure, for this reason have the highest price level. My primary home is in NO1 and my vacation home is in NO3, massive price difference between NO1 and NO3. There is no quick fix, we have bottlenecks in the power grid between the different grid zones, I am no expert, but think NO2 is more connected to the Nordic/Europen power market, so when the demand is high in e.g. Germany, power companies make more profit by selling power to that market, which means NO2 price level skyrocket. The price diff between NO2 to NO3 can be 10 times lower. This situation is a huge failure in my book, it affects the family economy for many and when energy price go up, so do price of all products, including food and transport. We always overcome difficulties, but this one, I am afraid can take some time.
Yes the electricity bills here are crazy! I too am no expert but seem crazy to push electric and then ramp up the prices. “Got’em!” Some might say…
@@heatherabroad yes, it was bad in all of Europe, ripple effect from major power shortage in Germany, electricity prices in Germany is now the double of Norway.
Mme has (by accident?) stumbled upon the difference between the US and Europe?) The US has always been about consuming. The average US citizen buys 75 garments per year. The European will only buy 25. 70% of US GDP comes from the the retail industry. The European way is different, you get health care, education and a pension for your taxes. This is even more pronounced in Scandinavia.. There are also many products the Govt do not want you to buy, and thus are taxed viscously to keep you from buying. So, by policy the American is loaded down with gear and devices, while the Scandinavian sticks to a more minimalistic style. Take your pick!0
Overall: In Norway, a family of 2 + 2 gets back on average 84% of what you have paid in taxes and fees throughout your life. In the US only 19%. Income tax is probably a little different than you describe here. In principle, you must pay 25.1% tax with an income of NOK 500,000 and 33.3% for NOK 1,000,000. About 3-4% less if you have 2 children under the age of 18. If you have a mortgage or interest expenses on cars or other credit, you deduct all interest expenses BEFORE you pay tax - the same with large expenses for travel or accommodation in connection with work. You therefore get 28% of your total interest expenses on all loans covered in the tax calculation. 5-6% of your tax goes to saving for retirement. You can view the saved amount on NAV - my pension - at all times. If you work in a public job, you get 66% of the average of the last 5 years in old-age pension. If you work in the private sector - the company saves money for you in a private pension institution - so that NAV pension + private pension will give you a 66% old-age pension - limited to approx. NOK 750,000 per year. (6G).
Yes I understand. But also this doesn’t pay out the same if you don’t live here long term. And if you are invested in other countries you may be responsible for even more taxes to Norway that you will never benefit from. So overall, I think it really depends on what lifestyle you want and how much you trust the given government of your country to provide you with what you feel is the best education, healthcare, and retirement.
@@heatherabroad That is completely wrong. Norway has tax agreements with many countries - the entire EU and the USA. Many Norwegians have lived and worked in the USA and there are many from the USA who have worked in Norway. You do not pay tax to 2 countries - or it is distributed between the countries. You will of course get the money you save in Norway - regardless of which country you live in on the relevant day.
@@lpdude2005 you are correct, we do not pay twice due to the tax treaty between the US and Norway, however Norway’s tax obligations supersede the US upon certain levels. I appreciate the input on the benefits of living in Norway long term.
66% of the last year's earnings is the basis for your retirement pension?
@@lpdude2005 @Heather Abroad I file my own taxes and last year I was curious about the IRS process for reporting foreign income and it looked like I would also pay US income tax if I worked in Norway.
I know this discussion is regarding retirement, but I was curious of your thoughts/experiences with ‘double taxation’ before retirement.
Thank you for great video. Of course I know that this is an expensive country, but the differences you describe are bigger than I thought. So I am surprised.
Thanks for watching!
You mentioning texas isnt a fair comparison with how big it is here and how varied things are. Where I'm at, some of those housing prices are about the same, if not better in both Alaska and Norway. Yet, 40ish minutes away, I could find bigger for cheaper. A chili's meal here would also be comparable to Norway, too. I really appreciate this comparison since it's really the only one like it, but that Texas mention threw me. 😅😅
Yes but in all fairness I did compare it to a major city in each state. And Stavanger, Anchorage and Houston are all large oil and gas heavy cities. So the pricing in Houston is surprisingly similar but past the surrounding suburbs the farther out you go, it gets more affordable. But I understand your point. And thanks for watching! 😊
@@heatherabroad Thanks for responding! I also watched a couple more after this and subbed. Great channel! 🥰
@@GrizzneyGames thanks! I am just doing it for fun! Sometimes I’m great at posting and others not so much. Hopefully I’ll put out a summer video soon but for now just enjoying time with the kids. 😎☀️
Free school and even univercety, heltcare, kindergarden refond after income, aso
Free is relative… more so prepaid through taxes?! What do you think? 🤔
You should put the bill in dollar too...
You know you live in the west part of Norway where you will mostly find farmers and small rural places like Stavanger, Bergen and Haugesund. If you live in Oslo that is something completely different. That is a city. Where you live it’s like comparing Skidrow Missouri to New York as it is with the west of Norway to Oslo.
Yes but it is the places I have lived 👍🏼
I don't care about the Comparison to the US .I want know what the cost of living in Norway is.
What else would you like to know. I cover some basics like housing, groceries, electricity, and eating out. Anything else specifically?
Thanks for watching!
Hey Heather. Are you still alive?
Have you abandoned the channel completely?
Well… I’m back! I got so busy with the kids and volunteering. I am working to get another video posted soon. I’ll send some shorts your way to hold you over! 🥰
@@heatherabroad 🥰👍
BTW: Why do you call your channel Heather Abroad? It would be better if you called it Heather at home, because we do get to keep you, your husband and your familiy in Norway, dont we? I hope you are not planning to leave us behind and move back to USA?
Unfortunately we will not be here permanently, therefore we are trying to take in as much as possible while we have this amazing opportunity!
@@heatherabroad Are you back in America now? You haven't uploaded in a minute.
No, I am just behind. I have been volunteering a lot of time. I will do my best to post soon! 😅 Thanks for the encouragement though.
No, is not affordable to live in Norway if you're alone paying everything on your own if you don't have a pretty good salary! If in your house there is two people working full time and you have the luck of renting a cheap house than maybe you can save some money, nowadays with the "inflation" (treats with EU) everything is so expensive that you almost can't afford food.... And people her is so compliant that don't say sht about it, everyone say yes to everything and the communist government from Norway takes more money in direct and indirect taxes on everything than the actual money you can held in your pockets.... So... You must have good studies and get into a good job so you earn so much that you don't notice the amount of money you're being taken in everything you want to buy or spend! 🤦🏽♂️
It does seem that the system depends on two income households for sure. Pros and cons…